Season 5 Discussion

[magemaud]

5 hours ago, Normades said:

 

5 hours ago, BeachyWave said:

There’s this technique called “not answering the phone.” And blocking numbers.

Do we know that she was calling HIS phone?  I've seen this happen where spurned lovers call the place of business or manager and is sure can get someone fired.  I don't know what happened in this case, but it is possible

 

I think in this situation Nicole wouldn’t be able to communicate on the phone to anyone who answered but Azan. 

[TeapotWakeen]

11 hours ago, booboopbedoo said:

An International License is about 25 bucks. and super easy to get. It amazes me that no one researches ANYTHING before going to another country!! ( I am yelling)

I'm guessing it's more about car insurance. None of my exchange students were covered under my insurance, since they weren't technically part of my family (snort, maybe to Geico!!). And none of them were covered under their parent's or their own insurance at a level that was worth the risk financially. Not sure why an American friend of mine can be covered for driving my car, but an international student isn't. <shrug>

Do we know if any of the fiances do volunteer work? take ESOL classes? anything but hang out, or research modeling opportunities?

[Arwen Evenstar]

26 minutes ago, TeapotWakeen said:

 

Do we know if any of the fiances do volunteer work? take ESOL classes? anything but hang out, or research modeling opportunities?

I don’t think they can take English classes unless they are at a community center, as they’d have to meet requirements for IDs and the like to enroll in an actual college or trade school.  Wouldn’t see why they couldn’t do volunteer work as it’s unpaid.

[KateHearts]

And this week's theme is.... DISRESPECT

Evelyn:  "At least I don't think I'm an elitist..."  (eyeroll), followed by a  "nothing!" when David inquires.

             Saying to her family as if David is deaf and blind: "He's been here for like, point zero zero zero seconds and he's talking bad about Claremont!" (family nods in agreement)

 

Luis:  "It's my day off!"  "I miss my single life!"  followed by totally blowing Molly off while he and her brother Jethro whoop it up at the strip club. (Hot pink shirt?  Really?)

          Mocking Kensley's chat ("blah blah blah...")- that would be a ticket back to the DR for me right there.

Molly: "he needs to be a part of my family and be involved with my kids-" (translated: "I want a babysitter so I can sell jumbo-sized bras and hang with my hairdresser."

Josh: "don't OBSESS over the ring [that I gave to the last woman who finally realized what a loser I am]"- [because I can hardly afford to support myself and need to have a houseful of roomies to get by]

Joe: "There's something *off* about you"- WTF???

Nicole:  "TALK TO ME. TALK TO ME. TALK TO ME..." body-slamming and pushing Azan.  What is his problem, anyway? She has a few more days and he could then send her off and block her damn number.  I don't get his claim that she "made" him lose his job because she wanted to talk all day long.  Mute your phone, moron! What is he doing this for? Is his family planning for him to send them money once he reaches America?

Nikki: anyone notice how she totally trash-talked Chris for essentially being a pansy and allowing David to live in their house?  All of a sudden she's acting as if well, maybe this isn't a great idea.  Really?  And all the cursing and yelling with the baby in her arms really rubbed me the wrong way.

David Poor:  mimicking his future wife's accent and giving everyone that "I don't give a shit" half-smile while they are basically calling him a rude, lazy drunk.  He's disgusting.

[Stripper Glitter]

15 hours ago, Normades said:

I think it's unfair that when men are abused they are told, "well, that woman couldn't have hurt a big man like you."  This is why men don't report when it does happen.  I realize that women are usually at a physical disadvantage and are the victims more often, but I don't think the abuse of anyone should be tolerated or undercut.  Look at the still pictures.  She is twice his size.  I'm sure he's strong, but she does have an advantage, too.  I do think she could hurt him if she wanted to.  Getting shoved around by someone twice your size is intimidating and scary. It can also really hurt.  And even if she didn't hurt him physically, it is emotionally scarring to be pushed around like that and be powerless to fight back.  I think this was particularly distressing for Azan because he has talked about his culture and how people are expected to behave with some discretion and decorum, especially in public and here he is in public being pushed around by this large woman.  I imagine it hurt his male pride and his reputation.  I just find it really wrong.  I also am not so sure that he will eventually hit her if given the chance.  I haven't seen any behavior from Azan that indicates he would get physical.  I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on that front.

 

If Azan had behaved at Nicole the way she did at him, people would be screaming DV. 

While I abhor phrases like "fat ass" (and yes I am overweight and have been referred to in that manner) the fact does remain Nicole IS quite a bit larger than Azan, and I do believe she could hurt him as much if not more than he could hurt her. She has size on her side, he has testosterone and fitness. I think they might balance out.

[magemaud]

9 hours ago, Normades said:

That's another thing that really drives me crazy.  Nicole's mother always takes her side when Nicole talks about the problems with Azan.  We saw her last year tell her how mean Azan was to her, but she never heard one word of the things Nicole did. 

Yes, remember when Nicole and Azan had the big blow up about her cheating on him (which I still don't believe really happened) and afterwards she called home to talk to her mother? She said something in her TH about "I don't want to tell my mother the truth" and when Robbalee said, "You don't sound so good, is everything okay?" Nicole just claimed that she was tired. 

[BeachyWave]

7 hours ago, Normades said:

Do we know that she was calling HIS phone? 

Since the charge was that he was calling him, that's fairly obvious.

[Stripper Glitter]

12 hours ago, balisticnikki said:

Abused?? LOL He invited her back to Morocco knowing she is. That's a silly thing to say and it is an affront to women and men who are powerless and stuck in an actually abusive situation. Don't hyperbolize.

Did he invite her or did she invite herself?

Once upon a time when I was but a young SG, I fell for a guy who happened to be the manager of the place where I worked. He came in from CA (I lived in WA then), freshly divorced and lonely. I fell hard. It was semi-mutual but much more on my part. After a few months he transferred back to CA. I was miserable. I sent him letter after letter (like I said, this was awhile ago lol), and in one I announced that I was coming for a visit. Called him about a week before I left, asked if he got my letter. Said he did. I bought a train ticket and choo-choo'd my happity ass (ha had to use it) down to Riverside CA. He wasn't at the train station to meet me....just me and some other guy at the train station, we shared a cab to a hotel, got our (separate, thank you) rooms. (Thinking back on all that now OMG. That guy could've been anyone and done anything to a 21 yr old traveling by herself). The next morning I showed up at the mall where the company store was located and surprised him. Apparently he hadn't been reading my letters. I stayed for a week, trying my damndest to get him to establish a "relationship". Yeah, that didn't work. 6-7 days later I spent the last of my money to take a cab to the train station to go home. It's a full day & night from So Cal to where I got off in WA. I had no food, had my period, and when I called my Dad collect from a stop he yelled at me for not having paid the car insurance. I cried most of the way home. I was devastated at the time but looking back now I just shake my head at my dumb ass - and thank God nothing "worked out" with the guy, or I wouldn't have been in the place to meet my husband <3

Anywho....all that to say....I thought it was a mutual thing, I thought he knew and accepted that I was coming to visit, but really I invited myself and was not welcome. He tolerated me but he didn't really want anything to do with me. It may well be the same with Nicole & Azan.

[Desert Rat]

3 hours ago, TeapotWakeen said:

 Not sure why an American friend of mine can be covered for driving my car, but an international student isn't. <shrug>

I think it is because your instance company has suborgation rights against a friend driving your car.  The insurance company could enforce its subrogation rights against an American in American courts, but it might be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce those same rights against an international student or tourist.  In other words, insurance is all about risk. If an international student is in an accident while driving your car, it is more difficult for the insurance company to recover against the international driver than if the driver were an American.  

Edited December 1, 2017 by Desert Rat

[hatchetgirl]

I think David Spain is homesick and trying to convey complex issues in a second language to a bunch of dumb asses. Lol. I'm surprised he hasn't thrown the "i left everything and everyone for you and you won't even consider a move?" [He may have though, my dvr is messing up royally.]

Azan... geez I feel for him. Did you see the sound guy move out of her way super quick with a look of fear at one point? 

The Az guy's friend needs to declare his love already.  Shees 

David poor - just a creep and a half.  I really like Annie. She's refreshing. I hope she gets awry from him. 

I'm  trying to figure out if Andrei is messing.  He always seems to try to disguise a smirk when he gets a rise out of anyone 

[Quof]

4 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

I think it is because your instance company has suborgation rights against a friend driving your car.  The insurance company could enforce its subrogation rights against an American in American courts, but it might be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce those same rights against an international student or tourist.  In other words, insurance is all about risk. If an international student is in an accident while driving your car, it is more difficult for the insurance company to recover against the international driver than if the driver were an American.  

Nope. Your friend becomes an insured under the policy when they drive with your consent.  An insurer can't subrogate against their own insured.

 The issue is more likely the age of your students or that your insurer doesn't know or accept the licensing standards from their country. 

[mamadrama]

5 hours ago, Stripper Glitter said:

Did he invite her or did she invite herself?

Once upon a time when I was but a young SG, I fell for a guy who happened to be the manager of the place where I worked. He came in from CA (I lived in WA then), freshly divorced and lonely. I fell hard. It was semi-mutual but much more on my part. After a few months he transferred back to CA. I was miserable. I sent him letter after letter (like I said, this was awhile ago lol), and in one I announced that I was coming for a visit. Called him about a week before I left, asked if he got my letter. Said he did. I bought a train ticket and choo-choo'd my happity ass (ha had to use it) down to Riverside CA. He wasn't at the train station to meet me....just me and some other guy at the train station, we shared a cab to a hotel, got our (separate, thank you) rooms. (Thinking back on all that now OMG. That guy could've been anyone and done anything to a 21 yr old traveling by herself). The next morning I showed up at the mall where the company store was located and surprised him. Apparently he hadn't been reading my letters. I stayed for a week, trying my damndest to get him to establish a "relationship". Yeah, that didn't work. 6-7 days later I spent the last of my money to take a cab to the train station to go home. It's a full day & night from So Cal to where I got off in WA. I had no food, had my period, and when I called my Dad collect from a stop he yelled at me for not having paid the car insurance. I cried most of the way home. I was devastated at the time but looking back now I just shake my head at my dumb ass - and thank God nothing "worked out" with the guy, or I wouldn't have been in the place to meet my husband <3

Anywho....all that to say....I thought it was a mutual thing, I thought he knew and accepted that I was coming to visit, but really I invited myself and was not welcome. He tolerated me but he didn't really want anything to do with me. It may well be the same with Nicole & Azan.

This is going to sound crazy but my younger self did something VERY similar-TWICE! Met a guy on vacation when I was 18. Had a 2-night fling, fell head over heels, and then flew all the way to Boston 3 months later to "surprise" him. He so didn't care. A few years later, was backpacking Eastern Europe and met a guy from England. Spent several days traveling together. Decided to meet in Ireland a year later. I showed up, all the way from the US, he didn't. Gave me an excuse about the plane tickets from England being too expensive. (I know, I know.) Three months later, I flew to England to surprise him. Guess what? He didn't care. In both of these instances, I was head over heels in love with the guys-almost to the point of making myself sick. 

Ugh. So embarrassing. No wonder I kept going back and dating my childhood friend. 

I could totally see Nicole inviting herself and Azan just not knowing what to do about it. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by mamadrama

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Azan just not knowing what to do about it. 

Not signing a contract to be on TV would be a start.

[mamadrama]

7 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Not signing a contract to be on TV would be a start.

Or changing his phone number, blocking her from social media, etc. 

[merylinkid]

Azan is being pressured by his family to get that green card.    He is staying with Nicole in hopes some other desparate American woman will see it and save him.    Someone with money and no abuse.  His family is very important and pleasing them is important.   SO he is doing what he has to do.

Lots of abuse victims stick around for what we think are dumb reasons.   But one -- they've been conditioned by the abuser to think they deserve the abuse.   So why try to change the situation.   Two - they really think they can't get out.   So Azan dumps Nicole's ass.   She keeps calling, she finds him on social media and sabotages other relationships, she shows up in MOrocco again.   She finds out where he is living in the US if he ever gets here and shows up.   It's not that simple to just break up with an abuser.   They end the relationship when they are good and ready (usually when they find a new victim).  The most dangerous time for a victim is when they try to end the relationship.  The abuser knows they are losing control and fight hard to get it back.

There is no doubt that he is being abused.   Gender doesn't matter.   Size doesn't matter.   Fitness doesn't matter.   She is controlling him, financially, emotionally and physically.   The fact he is not hospitalized yet is a gift, not a sign of no abuse.   Abusers escalate.  It's only a matter of time.

[Brooklynista]

7 hours ago, BeachyWave said:

Since the charge was that he was calling him, that's fairly obvious.

Something about Nicole tells me she would have called his cell, his job, his momma's house even the cafe incessantly if she felt she was being ignored by Azan.

[Mr. Miner]

3 hours ago, hatchetgirl said:

Azan... geez I feel for him. Did you see the sound guy move out of her way super quick with a look of fear at one point?

Don't judge until you've been charged by an albino rhinoceros.

[Normades]

56 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Azan is being pressured by his family to get that green card.    He is staying with Nicole in hopes some other desparate American woman will see it and save him.    Someone with money and no abuse.  His family is very important and pleasing them is important.   SO he is doing what he has to do.

Lots of abuse victims stick around for what we think are dumb reasons.   But one -- they've been conditioned by the abuser to think they deserve the abuse.   So why try to change the situation.   Two - they really think they can't get out.   So Azan dumps Nicole's ass.   She keeps calling, she finds him on social media and sabotages other relationships, she shows up in MOrocco again.   She finds out where he is living in the US if he ever gets here and shows up.   It's not that simple to just break up with an abuser.   They end the relationship when they are good and ready (usually when they find a new victim).  The most dangerous time for a victim is when they try to end the relationship.  The abuser knows they are losing control and fight hard to get it back.

There is no doubt that he is being abused.   Gender doesn't matter.   Size doesn't matter.   Fitness doesn't matter.   She is controlling him, financially, emotionally and physically.   The fact he is not hospitalized yet is a gift, not a sign of no abuse.   Abusers escalate.  It's only a matter of time.

EXACTLY!!  I agree 100%.  You do not need broken bones to corroberate abuse.  Nicole is in a position of power over Azan.  She holds the golden ticket to America that he and his family seem to want.  I don't think he realized that he was setting himself up to be abused like this, but he keeps signing on and continuing contact to try and support and help his family.  I think he's in a really difficult position.  He seems like a calm guy and his friends and family seem to have similar temperament.  She can't even hold it together while on camera in front of millions.  I shudder to think of what she is like when she knows no one is looking.

 

42 minutes ago, Brooklynista said:

Something about Nicole tells me she would have called his cell, his job, his momma's house even the cafe incessantly if she felt she was being ignored by Azan.

Yes.  I also don't think the language barrier is a huge issue.  It seems that there are many English speakers in that part of the world.  Plus, he was working in a tourism field, so I would think that she could certainly call and get someone who speaks English.  I thought he said she called me at my job, so she may have called only his phone, but I would bet she made other calls, too, based on her behavior.  She will not make leaving her easy.  Even across the world. 

[Madding crowd]

I agree that shoving is abusive. I don't agree Azan is trapped or is in the same situation as someone in an abusive marriage. They are not married, Azan does not have children, he lives in a different country, he is a young man who could work, he has family. Women stuck in abusive marriages often have children to think of and no money of their own to hire lawyers, rent an apartment. And judges often give custody to the person who can provide the best home. No one is forcing Azan to do anything. If he tells Nicole she must go home what is she going to do? 

[AZChristian]

Production needs to step in and stop Nicole.  NOW.

I'm thinking that in a Muslim country if Azan were to call the cops on Nicole, she'd be transferring her "stardom" to that cable show about people being arrested and jailed abroad.  There are (family) witnesses who have seen her attack him . . . and it's been on TV in the USA.  I doubt they'd let her take her cell phone to jail with her, so at least she wouldn't be able to continue to harass him by phone or on social media.  (Must admit I giggled a bit when thinking about her being given nothing but local - fresh - food; and only in the amounts that the jailers provide.  The Moroccan Prison Diet.)

Even if Azan doesn't want to call the police . . . Production needs to put down their cameras and step in and stop Nicole.  NOW.

[sasha206]

28 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I agree that shoving is abusive. I don't agree Azan is trapped or is in the same situation as someone in an abusive marriage. They are not married, Azan does not have children, he lives in a different country, he is a young man who could work, he has family. Women stuck in abusive marriages often have children to think of and no money of their own to hire lawyers, rent an apartment. And judges often give custody to the person who can provide the best home. No one is forcing Azan to do anything. If he tells Nicole she must go home what is she going to do? 

I agree.  She's being abusive and that is not acceptable.  However, it is different from a situation in which a woman or man is trapped in a marriage with financial difficulties and is struggling to get out from under.  Azan will be done with her as soon as filming ends.  

[Normades]

21 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Production needs to step in and stop Nicole.  NOW.

I'm thinking that in a Muslim country if Azan were to call the cops on Nicole, she'd be transferring her "stardom" to that cable show about people being arrested and jailed abroad.  There are (family) witnesses who have seen her attack him . . . and it's been on TV in the USA.  I doubt they'd let her take her cell phone to jail with her, so at least she wouldn't be able to continue to harass him by phone or on social media.  (Must admit I giggled a bit when thinking about her being given nothing but local - fresh - food; and only in the amounts that the jailers provide.  The Moroccan Prison Diet.)

Even if Azan doesn't want to call the police . . . Production needs to put down their cameras and step in and stop Nicole.  NOW.

I wonder if her documented physical attacks on him could prevent her from visiting Morocco again?  Would this be taken into consideration if she wants to return?  I'd love it if they shut her down.  I can just see her arguing with the government and crying how it's all so UNFAIR!!

[balisticnikki]

2 hours ago, Normades said:

EXACTLY!!  I agree 100%.  You do not need broken bones to corroberate abuse.  Nicole is in a position of power over Azan.  She holds the golden ticket to America that he and his family seem to want.  I don't think he realized that he was setting himself up to be abused like this, but he keeps signing on and continuing contact to try and support and help his family.  I think he's in a really difficult position. 

Wanting to go to America doesn't put Azan in a powerless position while he is still with his entire family, in his own country and male. And being a US citizen doesn't put Nicole in a position of power over him as a woman in a strange Middle Eastern country, alone with her toddler.

 

Azan is still full in control here. All he has to do is tolerate her for another few days. He is not an abused man.

[Normades]

8 minutes ago, balisticnikki said:

Wanting to go to America doesn't put Azan in a powerless position while he is still with his entire family, in his own country and male. And being a US citizen doesn't put Nicole in a position of power over him as a woman in a strange Middle Eastern country, alone with her toddler.

 

Azan is still full in control here. All he has to do is tolerate her for another few days. He is not an abused man.

I didn't say he was powerless.  I said she has power over him.  She holds the keys to what he and his family want.  He has his family's hopes on his shoulders.  Nicole sure didn't look too powerless as a woman in a strange Middle Eastern country while she was grabbing and pushing Azan around and her toddler was being care for by someone else while Nicole scared everyone with her fury.

Azan has the ability to change the situation.  I don't believe it will be as easy as some suggest, but he can change it.  Having to tolerate that for a few days, hours, or minutes doesn't negate that she was abusive toward him.  Of course, he shouldn't "make her act like that" in Nicole's opinion.  I hope he gets some $ and gets away from her.  If he finds some other way to get to America, if that's what he wants, I think that's great.  So far he doesn't seem like a bad person.  Personally, I like to send Nicole elsewhere if at all possible.

[brillia79]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I agree that shoving is abusive. I don't agree Azan is trapped or is in the same situation as someone in an abusive marriage. They are not married, Azan does not have children, he lives in a different country, he is a young man who could work, he has family. Women stuck in abusive marriages often have children to think of and no money of their own to hire lawyers, rent an apartment. And judges often give custody to the person who can provide the best home. No one is forcing Azan to do anything. If he tells Nicole she must go home what is she going to do? 

I knew girls in high school and college who weren't married to their abusers either. Abuse does not require a wedding band. You can still be emotionally trapped.

Leaving also doesn't guarantee safety. Google Yvette Cade. She left her abuser. He showed up to her job, doused her with accelerant and set her on fire... after a judge who didn't believe her lifted the restraining order against her husband.

 When I was in college, a girl left her abuser. He blamed her friends, so he drove to their home and shot them to death.

[KateHearts]

On 11/27/2017 at 9:59 PM, Eme said:

Evelyn and David Spain - They have zero chemistry.  They don't appear to like each other and they show zero respect.  If Evelyn was raised to submit to her husband, she is doing a poor job of it.  She fights him at every turn.  Who knows what he expected from his visits with her in Spain and their computer communications?  Whatever it was, IRL, life with her is uncomfortable and he is lashing out to a teenager for being willful.  Good luck with that.  He's a bit old for her chronologically, but his maturity level is going down down down every minute he spends in Stars Hollow with her.  Her family is provincial and defensive.  They should be guiding their TEENAGER to wait and not marry HIM because they have very little in common, instead of criticizing her fiancé behind his back.

Bahtman David is very pathetic, yet he has The Moves to get The Girl and bring her to the US on smoke and mirrors alone.  He's got game...and Chris' $$$. Not a fan of Wife Chris because she's angry and rude about having them in her house.  She needed to talk to Big Spender Rico Suave Chris to get Bahtman and Annie Their Own Place, not living with them in their cool digs.  She had some good advice, but I get the feels from her that she is way down on Rico Suave's List of someone he pays attention to.  Guessing this show is what is keeping Chris in the Bahtman/Annie mix.  Annie knows exactly what she is running away from, and she has no choice but to "believe in The Bahtman".  Hoping she finds some Cool Thai women to lean on when she gets to where she gets to with BD.

Andreiiiii - Dude was chillin' and eaten' and paying those Women No Nevermind.  They lost me when they attacked him without trying to convince him what a Great Idea it would be for Libby to come out with them. (of course the editing made it that way, but that's what we saw).   Making it HIS IDEA that she should Enjoy Her Sisters and Friends on a Regular Basis and at a Bachelorette Party would have been brilliant.  Sadly, they missed an opportunity.  I also got the gist that Libby is not a Mover-Shaker, and is only too happy to be Taken Care Of by Andreiiii.  Her sisters don't have the same view of Libby that we and Andreiii have....

How To Lose A Tenuous Fanbase in Two Easy Episodes -- Louise!  MAN!  You No Good!  Molly!  WAKE UP!  He is Not A Babysitter!  He is going to be Your Husband and you NEED TO TAKE HIM TO WORK WITH YOU TO KEEP HIM BUSY Until he can legally work!  Sheesh!  She is so focussed on HER LIFE, and having him in her bed, that she is not thinking about anyone else but Her Needs.  I hope she gets a wake up call before she gets married....to anyone, not just Louise.  

The Random Capilalizations In your Post are making my Head Spin.

[Pepper Mostly]

2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

 

I'm thinking that in a Muslim country if Azan were to call the cops on Nicole, she'd be transferring her "stardom" to that cable show about people being arrested and jailed abroad.  There are (family) witnesses who have seen her attack him . . . and it's been on TV in the USA.  I doubt they'd let her take her cell phone to jail with her, so at least she wouldn't be able to continue to harass him by phone or on social media.  (Must admit I giggled a bit when thinking about her being given nothing but local - fresh - food; and only in the amounts that the jailers provide.  The Moroccan Prison Diet.)

 

 

Locked Up Abroad! God, I loved that show. I have one saved permanently on my Tivo, the one where the idiotic blues musician agrees to run drugs from Venezuela. Comedy. Gold. My son and I made up a blues song on the spot in his honor. I wish we'd recorded it, it was genius. Its especially fun when people break the law in another country and spend the whole show trying to make themselves look good, or play the injured party. And expect the American Embassy to get them out. They are subject to all the scorn I can muster, and I'm sure Nicole would not disappoint. I'm sure we'd see her talking head saying "so, I was in prison in Morocco, and after three months none of the inmates spoke English yet!"

[3girlsforus]

48 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

I knew girls in high school and college who weren't married to their abusers either. Abuse does not require a wedding band. You can still be emotionally trapped.

Leaving also doesn't guarantee safety. Google Yvette Cade. She left her abuser. He showed up to her job, doused her with accelerant and set her on fire... after a judge who didn't believe her lifted the restraining order against her husband.

 When I was in college, a girl left her abuser. He blamed her friends, so he drove to their home and shot them to death.

Of course horrible things like this happen and it’s horrendous. But Azan lives on a whole other continent from Nicole. If he puts her on a plane back to the US he’s rid of her. He is choosing not to either because he wants to be on TV or for a green card. Neither of those things are justification to abdicate personal responsibility. He could end this. 

[ethalfrida]

1 minute ago, 3girlsforus said:

Of course horrible things like this happen and it’s horrendous. But Azan lives on a whole other continent from Nicole. If he puts her on a plane back to the US he’s rid of her. He is choosing not to either because he wants to be on TV or for a green card. Neither of those things are justification to abdicate personal responsibility. He could end this. 

Maybe he is obligated to finish the show with TLC. Maybe he can't just put her on a plane or maybe she just wouldn't get on one. Perhaps he has to at least acknowledge her while they are under the obligation of filming. I can't get with the idea other than that.

[DangerousMinds]

How is Azan being controlled by Nicole financially? He is free to get a job at home, just as before.

[Madding crowd]

1 hour ago, brillia79 said:

I knew girls in high school and college who weren't married to their abusers either. Abuse does not require a wedding band. You can still be emotionally trapped.

Leaving also doesn't guarantee safety. Google Yvette Cade. She left her abuser. He showed up to her job, doused her with accelerant and set her on fire... after a judge who didn't believe her lifted the restraining order against her husband.

 When I was in college, a girl left her abuser. He blamed her friends, so he drove to their home and shot them to death.

But it can't be both ways: if Azan is emotionally trapped it would be because he either is in love with Nicole or cannot get away from her. It has also been stated he can't leave because he wants something from her. I am well aware of women who left abusers and were murdered. Nothing Nicole has done warrants her being compared to a murderer. I do not believe for a minute Azan is in love with Nicole. Nor is he a teenager, her spouse, father of her children. To say that someone has power over you if you want something from them is not logical. Azan doesn't need to 'want' something from Nicole and none of us are entitled to something because we want it.

Azan lives an entire continent away from Nicole. It is entirely his choice. 

[DangerousMinds]

From what others have said, Morocco doesn't seem to take domestic violence very seriously. So who knew if they would press charges against Nicole for shoving Azan.

If he wants to get to the US, he should go through the legal, legitimate channels possible to do so. And I know it's no easy. But there are millions who have already been waiting for years, don't they deserve preference for trying to follow the rules and not scam someone (who is already unstable with a very young child)?

[brillia79]

16 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

Of course horrible things like this happen and it’s horrendous. But Azan lives on a whole other continent from Nicole. If he puts her on a plane back to the US he’s rid of her. He is choosing not to either because he wants to be on TV or for a green card. Neither of those things are justification to abdicate personal responsibility. He could end this. 

None of that changes the fact that Nicole is abusuve towards Azan. We're moving the goalposts on abuse because the victim is a green card scammer.

1 minute ago, Madding crowd said:

Nothing Nicole has done warrants her being compared to a murderer.

You think they all started out that way? Nope. It was gradual.

[DangerousMinds]

Without funding from TLC, I can't imagine she would be able to book another flight to Morrocco and Chase Azan down if he broke up with her. Not really a legitimate scenario.

[Madding crowd]

I don't think anyone is saying it's not abuse. But Azan does not love Nicole, is not tied to her and does not need a green card. There are no ties beyond his own choice to pursue a relationship with her. 

[Drogo]

9 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

From what others have said, Morocco doesn't seem to take domestic violence very seriously. So who knew if they would press charges against Nicole for shoving Azan.

TBF, Morocco doesn't take domestic violence against women very seriously.  

[brillia79]

1 minute ago, Madding crowd said:

I don't think anyone is saying it's not abuse. But Azan does not love Nicole, is not tied to her and does not need a green card. There are no ties beyond his own choice to pursue a relationship with her. 

You do need a green card if you intend to become a permanent resident of the United States. Let's not act like Nicole doesn't hold something Azan feels he needs and that she is not manipulative... like abusers always are.

Whether or not he chooses to leave doesn't change what Nicole has done. 

[magemaud]

35 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

"so, I was in prison in Morocco, and after three months none of the inmates spoke English yet!"

"and there were no french fries! It's NOT FAIR!" 

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 minutes ago, magemaud said:

"and there were no french fries! It's NOT FAIR!" 

They should put her on The Moroccan Prison Diet. VEGETABLES every day!!!!

In most countries, if your family doesn’t visit you, there’s no food. 

[Madding crowd]

18 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

You do need a green card if you intend to become a permanent resident of the United States. Let's not act like Nicole doesn't hold something Azan feels he needs and that she is not manipulative... like abusers always are.

Whether or not he chooses to leave doesn't change what Nicole has done. 

It is a choice to pursue living in another country-no one is forcing this choice on Azan. Are you saying people are somehow forced to come to the United States? I understand it is something Azan wants, but wants are not needs. Nicole wants Azan to fall in love with her. Is he required to fall in love because she wants him too? Does he hold power over her because he has something she wants?  They both have choices. Nicole can go home and find someone who likes her as she is. Azan can either stay in Morocco and find a woman who fits his ideals, or he can try to find a slim, woman who exercises and cooks in America. Where is he being forced? If I want a million dollars and choose to marry a creepy old man to get it, does he really have power over me? After all, I don't need the million dollars. And again, I never said abuse is warranted or that it is not abuse. I said with no emotional, legal, family or other connection, Azan does not have to be with Nicole. 

[3girlsforus]

41 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

None of that changes the fact that Nicole is abusuve towards Azan. We're moving the goalposts on abuse because the victim is a green card scammer.

 

I'm not sure why saying that Azan could put Nicole on a plane and end this means she isn't abusive toward him. I never said she wasn't. 

[magemaud]

27 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

31 minutes ago, magemaud said:

"and there were no french fries! It's NOT FAIR!" 

They should put her on The Moroccan Prison Diet. VEGETABLES every day!!!!

ha ha, I was going to say that I could imagine her complaining that everything they gave her to eat was GREEN! 

[Gigglepuff]

8 minutes ago, magemaud said:

36 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

40 minutes ago, magemaud said:

"and there were no french fries! It's NOT FAIR!" 

They should put her on The Moroccan Prison Diet. VEGETABLES every day!!!!

ha ha, I was going to say that I could imagine her complaining that everything they gave her to eat was GREEN! 

Imagine her poor cellmate. *shudders*

[Stripper Glitter]

9 hours ago, mamadrama said:

This is going to sound crazy but my younger self did something VERY similar-TWICE! Met a guy on vacation when I was 18. Had a 2-night fling, fell head over heels, and then flew all the way to Boston 3 months later to "surprise" him. He so didn't care. A few years later, was backpacking Eastern Europe and met a guy from England. Spent several days traveling together. Decided to meet in Ireland a year later. I showed up, all the way from the US, he didn't. Gave me an excuse about the plane tickets from England being too expensive. (I know, I know.) Three months later, I flew to England to surprise him. Guess what? He didn't care. In both of these instances, I was head over heels in love with the guys-almost to the point of making myself sick. 

Ugh. So embarrassing. No wonder I kept going back and dating my childhood friend. 

I could totally see Nicole inviting herself and Azan just not knowing what to do about it. 

MamaDrama - at least I'm not the only one!! ;-) 

 

2 hours ago, KateHearts said:

The Random Capilalizations In your Post are making my Head Spin.

I totally get what the capitalizations mean ;-)

[Stripper Glitter]

2 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

Of course horrible things like this happen and it’s horrendous. But Azan lives on a whole other continent from Nicole. If he puts her on a plane back to the US he’s rid of her. He is choosing not to either because he wants to be on TV or for a green card. Neither of those things are justification to abdicate personal responsibility. He could end this. 

He could end it, but she could also not be an abusive hag.

She wants a relationship, a marriage, but she's in no position to get it. She will never be anything but someone's one night stand at this rate. She has no redeeming qualities. She doesn't try to make herself attractive  - and I don't necessarily mean losing weight - make up, hair, the way she dresses. Skinny doesn't equal beautiful just like fat doesn't equal ugly. Her attitude, whining, clinginess, neediness, immaturity, LAZINESS....there's nothing anyone wants long-term there. She will be a throw-away lay (sorry for the crassness but I calls it like I sees it) until and unless she does a lot of self-work and improvement.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Stripper Glitter

[brillia79]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

It is a choice to pursue living in another country-no one is forcing this choice on Azan. Are you saying people are somehow forced to come to the United States? I understand it is something Azan wants, but wants are not needs. Nicole wants Azan to fall in love with her. Is he required to fall in love because she wants him too? Does he hold power over her because he has something she wants?  They both have choices. Nicole can go home and find someone who likes her as she is. Azan can either stay in Morocco and find a woman who fits his ideals, or he can try to find a slim, woman who exercises and cooks in America. Where is he being forced? If I want a million dollars and choose to marry a creepy old man to get it, does he really have power over me? After all, I don't need the million dollars. And again, I never said abuse is warranted or that it is not abuse. I said with no emotional, legal, family or other connection, Azan does not have to be with Nicole. 

Unless someone is physically held captive, domestic violence victims can leave relationships whenever they want. Choosing to stay doesn't make the abuse less real.

Claiming otherwise is victim blaming. And one of the main reasons victims fail to report.

[Indy USAF]

She will be a throw-away lay

 

Roll away maybe?  Nobody is throwing her

[brillia79]

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

I'm not sure why saying that Azan could put Nicole on a plane and end this means she isn't abusive toward him. I never said she wasn't. 

Because getting on that plane doesn't erase what Nicole is and what she has done to Azan. And because people here have indeed said explicitly that Azan is not a victim, or a "real victim."

[Stripper Glitter]

10 minutes ago, Indy USAF said:

She will be a throw-away lay

 

Roll away maybe?  Nobody is throwing her

Oooooo!! Ouch. But I see your point.

[Madding crowd]

1 hour ago, brillia79 said:

Unless someone is physically held captive, domestic violence victims can leave relationships whenever they want. Choosing to stay doesn't make the abuse less real.

Claiming otherwise is victim blaming. And one of the main reasons victims fail to report.

I never once said anything about blaming a victim. Please don’t put words in my mouth