S06.E03: Finding Joy's Dress

[Autumn0516]

Michelle is a dink, but her "hot pink dress" comment seemed like actual, real joking around! I was shocked! 

Austin said he'd crossed Boob by talking past curfew???? These kids are expected to get married, but can't TALK past curfew? So stunted and ridiculous. 

I know the crew was there, but Ben leaving Henry in the stroller while he played with Spurge made me nervous. I have an irrational fear of kidnappers, I guess. 

Jana really is so sweet. I want her to escape! 

Jinger is over this shit and thrilled to be so far away. 

Jessa wanted to throttle Joy. The first dress was actually kind of saucy, and it did look good on her. The end result she actually wore did not flatter her. 

How does Grandma Duggar hold her tongue with these people? 

[BitterApple]

I finally watched this shit show and OMG, I would rather watch Spurge throw a temper tantrum for an hour than sit through another five minutes of dress shopping. It just underscored how Joy is in no way, shape or form ready to be a wife and mother. I loved how at the end she said knew it was the dress because "all the girls agreed." Uh no, Joy, all the girls were ready to get the hell out of there and didn't care what you picked at that point.  I felt so bad for Jennifer breaking down and seeking comfort from her sisters rather than her Egg Donor. 

Speaking of which, what the hell does Michelle do all day? The TTH is a filthy wreck. There was grime in the sink in the girls' room, crumbs and debris all over the floor downstairs and clothing racks in the family room. I know she's down three Nanny Slaves, but with that many adults still living at home, there's no excuse for it to look like such a pigsty. 

I also can't understand why the hell Austin is bothering with renovating that dumpster. Just level the thing and throw a modular home on the land. Save yourself the headache and have a home that doesn't look like it's going to collapse on you in your sleep.

Skeet shooting? Meh, who cares. JD saying he could give two shits about A-lines? Fly your bitch flag, JD, it makes you soooo much more attractive!

Best part of the night was Izzy's birthday. I love how he always refers to himself in the third person and calls himself "Chuchie". He really is a sweet kid. 

[loloandco]

The cameras made sure to focus in on Jana spending lots of time on her cellphone. Who could she be texting? Oh the drama. 

[flyingdi]

I do think Jessa has no patience but I also think she and Jana, at least, are being very kind to Joy. 

"Joy, do you want me to plan things for you?" Jessa.

"Joy, you look beautiful!". Jana. 

They are being a lot more helpful than anyone else in the planning, including Mr " It's all up to you" Austin.

I wonder if Joy really missed having Jill along.  She is Jill's buddy and might have sped things along.

[Love2dance]

I love, love, loved the first, more fitted dress on Joy. She looked beautiful in it. Probably too immodest for them, but it sure suited her figure. I hate the one she chose. Like others have said, it looked boxy on her and was like a Frankenstein dress.

[sigmaforce86]

1 hour ago, Autumn0516 said:

Austin said he'd crossed Boob by talking past curfew???? These kids are expected to get married, but can't TALK past curfew? So stunted and ridiculous. 

This had me so nuts it put Joy and her dress indicision far to the background.  You're adults (well, in age at least); you don't need have to abide by a curfew or any random parental morality rules that supposedly keep you from dry humping each other because you stayed up talking and hugged for a full 4 seconds.  Some day, we very very much hope, a Dugger (preferably a girl) is going to reach 18 and tell JB exactly where he can shove his patriarchal headship rules

Quote

How does Grandma Duggar hold her tongue with these people? 

I believe deep in Grammies fridge is a bottle of very special "juice"; probably labeled prune concentrate so the kids don't touch it.   A little special juice enhanced coffee for events like the dress shopping or any time she has to go out with MeChelle let her maintain that thousand yard stare we saw last episode

Edited September 26, 2017 by sigmaforce86

[BitterApple]

30 minutes ago, Love2dance said:

I love, love, loved the first, more fitted dress on Joy. She looked beautiful in it. Probably too immodest for them, but it sure suited her figure. I hate the one she chose. Like others have said, it looked boxy on her and was like a Frankenstein dress.

I agree. The color looked great and the silhouette was flattering. The dress she chose was a similar fit to Jessa's and Jinger's, and with Joy being bustier and hippier than both, it really did nothing for her figure.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, flyingdi said:

I do think Jessa has no patience but I also think she and Jana, at least, are being very kind to Joy. 

"Joy, do you want me to plan things for you?" Jessa.

"Joy, you look beautiful!". Jana. 

They are being a lot more helpful than anyone else in the planning, including Mr " It's all up to you" Austin.

I wonder if Joy really missed having Jill along.  She is Jill's buddy and might have sped things along.

Or made things even uglier. Lord knows what she would have picked.

[cereality]

Interesting how they claim their sisters are their BEST friends and yet a guy comes along and 2 side hugs later, HE is your bff. Screw the 8 sisters you have in tow, when you are bawling about a dress you call the new BFF who has explicitly said -- what he wants in a dress is Joy wearing it and walking down the aisle to him. Though TBH I'm pretty sure Austin is controlling and had expressed some opinions about what he wanted to see her in -- she said he didn't want poofy and also vetoed #1 bc he didn't want anything too tight. Guess he didn't want other fundie dudes seeing her ass when she was at the altar.

And Austin got in trouble for TALKING past curfew. They don't live together, so I imagine this meant talking BY PHONE. I don't even understand the idea of curfews for the age 18+ crowd though I know some parents still do them mostly bc they don't condone their kid sleeping over at their boyfriend/girlfriend's house, yet they also don't want their kid driving home tired and on lonely roads at 2 am so they require them home at midnight or whatever. But I don't think I've known anyone to have a "bedtime" past middle school at the very latest. Isn't that the age where you say -- you are expected to be up and out the door to school at x time and if you stay up too late messing around and oversleep or go to school completely exhausted, you are old enough to deal with the consequences. And what exactly do Joy and Austin miss if stay up until 2 am on the phone? Joy is late for her non existent school or work? Austin is late getting to Home Depot to pick up lumber for this dumpster of a house -- bc Home Depot is open until like 11 pm.

[Tdoc72]

6 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Living in the TTH with that stupid intercom looks to have all the warmth of living in an airport. And Duggar time exists because you morons are all lazy, entitled, and self-centered. It is not cute.

It was clearly early in the morning. So did everyone else get woken up by that?

9 hours ago, Magoo said:

Watching the older girls, especially Jessa, jump in to tell indecisive Joy what she wants, what she's "really" saying, and generally not letting her decide, it's easy to see how Joy's personality was likely formed.  In the chaos of that family, she was stuck in the middle of a pack of boys who were raised from birth being told they are better than girls/women, so as their only girl playmate her voice was overshadowed every day.  At the same time, she was at the bottom of the rung of the older girls who were actually doing the heavy lifting of childcare and were forced to act as authority/mother figures who told her what, where, when and how. She seems to be an inherent people pleaser, so rather than fight those unfightable dynamics she learned to just...well...never have an opinion that would be challenged.  By saying "I don't know, I don't care," everyone above and around her just made the decisions for her. In a messed up family like theirs, this was probably her way of coping. She drove me crazy last night with her constant indecisiveness, but I felt sorry for her.  She might come into her own with Austin, but he already seems really happy she's so agreeable. She'll never challenge his headship the way Jill and Jess (rightly) challenge theirs. Breaks my heart this underdeveloped girl-child is already pregnant and expected to Adult, when she's never been allowed to decide who the hell she is. In another family, she may have been the same, but if she'd had the chance to go to college, meet new people, live with roommates and friends and have normal experiences outside her family, she probably would have found self confidence. Tragic that this will never happen for her. 

Reminds me of the half-second I actually liked Jeremy was when he was talking about trying to encourage Jinger's self confidence. 

1 hour ago, Love2dance said:

I love, love, loved the first, more fitted dress on Joy. She looked beautiful in it. Probably too immodest for them, but it sure suited her figure. I hate the one she chose. Like others have said, it looked boxy on her and was like a Frankenstein dress.

I agree. She looked amazing in that first one. 

[TeaTV]

New Counting On one-off drinking game for this episode only I'll re-title an "AA Game/Alcohol Dependency Treatment Game". 

Just 2 rules:

Stay sober 1 day every time Joy is indecisive or apathetic.

Stay sober 1 day every time you feel pity for a child on the show.

That has to at least be good for a one month chip.  ?

[JocelynCavanaugh]

4 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

I think I have a fairly normal amount of patience, but between the cake tasting last week and the dress shopping I would so be Jessa in this situation. After awhile with Joy saying "I don't know" to practically everything I would be thinking just pick something already or I will do it, because this is getting ridiculous. Maybe I need more patience. It is also ridiculous that the viewers have to watch wedding planning with indecisive Joy when the wedding has already aired. 

Based on the scenes for next week, we're going to be treated to the same nonsense for her hair and makeup. If she hates all that stuff so much, why in the world couldn't they let her have a basic tomboy wedding? Viewers would have appreciated the change of pace and it would've saved her tightwad dad some serious cash. 

3 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Another thought: all the dresses picked by Miss Renee looked too mature for Joy, IMHO. The only one that was youthful enough was the polka dotted one. I'm not sure why Joy rejected that one, but then, neither is she. The one she chose would have looked much better if they had left some of the neckline open. I think a V-neck would be good for Joy, since she appears boxier in these dresses than she really is (I think because she is busty and not very tall). The edits made to the dress made it look more like a straight jacket to me. Sadly, that may be appropriate for this marriage.

I think this just underscores how immature and YOUNG she is. Even the most youthful bridal gowns are still intended for ADULT brides. 

[humbleopinion]

Austin could have made the episode worth watching if when asked when he crossed the line in courtship/engagement rules, he answered...penetration and impregnation of Joy before the wedding cake tasting...

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, cereality said:

Interesting how they claim their sisters are their BEST friends and yet a guy comes along and 2 side hugs later, HE is your bff.

They were required to memorize both these lines as part of their lengthy "religious" training,  I expect. By parents who are so stupid and dogmatic that it would never occur to them that there's complete cognitive dissonance there. And, since the girls actually never have had any friends at all -- not even the sisters and the guys that they are supposed to call BFFs (because Gothard said you must!) -- they don't see the dissonance either. Since they have no idea what any of it means. And each of them is so essentially isolated -- without even knowing it -- that "friend" has no tangible meaning to them. Hell, they've never even read BOOKS that have friendships in them or seen movies or tv shows that do. 

As with most other things, they parrot this shit with no actual understanding of what it's supposed to mean.  

Edited September 27, 2017 by Churchhoney

[woodscommaelle]

Joy is, like, devoid of thought. Is that possible? Could a person have just no thoughts?

"What's an a-line, John David?"

"I don't really care."  Or in other words: 'fuck you all.' This poor kid has effin' had it with this weirdo family of his.

"It looked like a copy of mine." Was that shade? 

Edited September 27, 2017 by woodscommaelle

[Absolom]

Ratings are in:  1.187 M viewers and a .29 rating.

I was not among them.  :)

[TeaTV]

3 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Ratings are in:  1.187 M viewers and a .29 rating.

I was not among them.  :)

FTR there are ways to watch without being counted in the ratings--which is what I do when I watch. 

[woodscommaelle]

"Jinger went all the way to Texas." Hah!! Everyone's throwing shade.

Oh poor Jenni. Poor girl was sobbing her heart out. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by woodscommaelle

[kalamac]

Are we sure she was sad about losing Joy and not just realizing that in a few years time, she might be forced into becoming a teen bride.

[My2Cents]

31 minutes ago, kalamac said:

Are we sure she was sad about losing Joy and not just realizing that in a few years time, she might be forced into becoming a teen bride.

Jill was the buddy to Joy, James and Jenny. Jenny was very distraught when Jill left but Joy stepped up to the plate. Now Joy is leaving, just down the road, but to Jenny, she knows her mother is a zombie and her world is changing again. Jana and Michael Bates are best friends, I have a feeling Michael and Brandon are looking for Jana. I really think Jana is concerned about leaving the little ones to her mom, she knows! I think that is why she is taking her time. and just concentrating raising the kids for now.  Jana is so kind, while the others counted the days to leave, Jana totally thinks long term. Btw, I can't stand Derrick, the way he drags his toddler and pregnant wife all over, (to unsafe places physically and medically), not to mention he is keeping the grandkids from his own mom. I think Jill's smile is fake half the time, this is not what she signed up for.

[Spencer Hastings]

As strange as it sounds, Jill really should have been there.  Jill was essentially Joy's mother and only source of female friendship growing up.  

We all know Michelle had checked out by the time Joy was born, Jana had her own kids to raise, Jessa and Jinger only talked to each other while trying to skate through this mess, and there were 6 more boys before Hannie came along....that leaves her buddy Jill.

I really think Jill being there would have made things easier for Joy.  I'm sure that she probably understands Joy's wants, needs, and emotions better than anyone else sitting there, Joy included. It sucks because Jill deserves the opportunity to live her life without having to worry about the kids she left behind.

[becca3891]

Considering they're supposed to "keep sweet" at all times, Joy sure didn't seem to be putting in much effort. I get it -- I don't like shopping either, but if you don't care much about your dress, do you really need to be crying about it on the phone with someone who doesn't care either? She should have just put it to a vote.

My heart broke for the little girls. It amazes me how the Duggars and all fundies, in all their smugness, like to preach about the evils of divorce and how emotionally terrible and unstable it is for a child to have a parent move out. I don't think they've ever stopped to think how emotionally devastating it is for younger children to have a "sister mom" who suddenly leaves one day to start her own family. It has to be a traumatic experience, way worse than divorce, my my opinion, because the sister mom's abandonment is complete whereas many if not most divorced parents stay involved in their children's lives.

Austin is starting to give me the creeps. Did anyone notice the preview for next week, with some stupid question and answer game? The question was "Which one of you wears the pants in the relationship?" and they both raised their hands. That's a big no-no for Joy in their belief system and I get the feeling that control is important to Austin. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a few words for Joy about that off-camera.

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, becca3891 said:

My heart broke for the little girls. It amazes me how the Duggars and all fundies, in all their smugness, like to preach about the evils of divorce and how emotionally terrible and unstable it is for a child to have a parent move out. I don't think they've ever stopped to think how emotionally devastating it is for younger children to have a "sister mom" who suddenly leaves one day to start her own family. It has to be a traumatic experience, way worse than divorce, my my opinion, because the sister mom's abandonment is complete whereas many if not most divorced parents stay involved in their children's lives.

My great aunt barbara (who was our nanny growing up we were very close), born in 1927 and was the 2nd youngest of 12. She says she never forgot when her eldest sister got married (she was 4) and she fell asleep during the reception, and when she woke up her sister was gone, and how she CRIED as if the world were ending. This sister was the eldest girl in a boy heavy family (one more girl 7yrs later and then the youngest two were girls). Her next eldest sister (my great aunt josie who was a young teen) comforted her and told her she was just moving up the street and they could go visit in a few days. 

I say all this to say that I can most certainly understand why Jenny is upset, but with Jill and Joy staying close by I'm sure they would have no problem with her visiting often- especially if they want the childcare (unfortunately). I don't see Jill ever abandoning her buddies emotionally, I think she loves them more than her own kids which is sad. 

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:

Joy is, like, devoid of thought. Is that possible? Could a person have just no thoughts?

 

That's one way that young kids cope when they have their minds and emotions and opinions viciously, continually squelched. When any thought or desire or preference (etc etc) that you might have is highly likely to get you into trouble or at least declared damnably wrong -- and your abusers are chaotic so you can't tell which thought might do that -- your young brain may sensibly conclude that the best route to successful survival is to turn everything off at the source.

In other words, you kill your own mind and soul at an early age to escape the confusion and pain of having other people do it on a daily basis. ..... Joy, for example, was, I'm sure, simply not permitted to express a strong preference for having Joshley not stick his dirty teenage hand up her tiny vagina again. .... And that's just one of, no doubt, thousands and thousands of opinions she was discouraged from having, from birth, basically, in that sick household. 

Besides Joy -- now deemed a "brat" by the public because she can't just out with a ready and sure opinion about her wedding cake or wedding dress, after nearly 20 years of doing her level best to have as few personal feelings and views as possible -- there are other people in the Duggar compound who've done the exact same thing to themselves. You can bank on it. Dull stupid Gothardite Jana, who's really not all that and probably just wants to stay around the compound forever cleaning up after Meeechelle, as the TeeVee viewers say. Stupid worthless Jill (so the TeeVee viewers say) who, unaccountably, just always says -- "I want whatever you want, Der." Boring boring Joe, who looks 10 and 45 at the same time. Not one bit of any of that is unaccountable.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Churchhoney

[humbleopinion]

Chelle and JimBlob both devoid of parental emotion and so detached from their passel of kids, did the right thing by punting the latest baby to the older girls who provided love and comfort, although by assignment.

At least one responsible person/their buddy-sister-mommy would answer their cries as an infant...although it should have been a parent instead of a preteen girl.

Jenny has lost her 2 mother figures...to her, Chelle is just that lady who hugs you only if the red camera light is on...

Joy was the bridge between the older girls and the younger girls but played mostly with her brothers who were older and younger but nearest in age.

  Not long ago she was filmed happily playing outside in bare feet to last 2 years donning an infinity scarf and forced inside to listen to Jill prattle on about Der and Jess about Bin in the girls' ward.

Her feet are still dirty so she probably still gets invited to participate in more fun boy activities than her sisters...like dirt bike riding.

Thought Joy would be Jana 2.0 destined to take Grandma Duggar's place in the laundry room but she is the youngest to get married and is having a full term premmie...

[HahYallDoin]

I nearly lost my eyeballs last night from rolling them so much! I just cannot take one more utterance of 'I don't know' when it comes to a dress, cake and decorations from a woman who does know what she wants to happen on her special day and has repeated it a few times. She wants to have a 30 second ceremony and a drive-by reception so she can hurry to bed with her husband. I don't blame her on that front, we've all felt that way but some of us are a little less obvious about it. Yes, I know all about how she was raised in the cult but when she has no problem alluding to her impatience to bed her husband, her dumb act of 'I don't know' reads of 'I don't care/know and I'm not going to attempt to know. I hate shopping so rather than engage and get the train moving, I'll make like a slug and drag this crap out. I won't make a decision but when y'all try to make one for me, i.e. the sisters proclaiming the first dress was fabulous on her, I'll shoot it down and try on another 5. I enjoy the attention, just like any other woman planning a wedding does, but I'm not going to admit it. I'll play it passive-aggressively.' I just can't with Joy anymore. 

Did you see how unaffected Joy was when Meechelle shared her feelings about Joy? Joy's face was blank but once the others began sharing, her demeanor changed and she began to get emotional. That exchange with Meechelle just reinforced the common belief that the children are much more attached to their sister moms than the baby maker. Further case in point when Jenni fell apart, poor little thing. 

I was so proud of JD for speaking his truth of not giving a damn what an A-Line is. Of course he isn't female so he doesn't have to keep sweet but still. 

Poor Joe, drawing a triangle in the air and proclaiming it a rectangle. That SOTDRT sure failed him there. 

I was team Grandma all day long at Ms. Renee's. She, no doubt, has to fortify her spirits, with some spirits, as someone else stated, just to be able to handle this crowd. I loved how she was over the *hit show and began pointing out dresses her damn self. And it worked. You go Grandma, wielding that fake red rose like a magic wand! 

There was another scene that reminded us all that the Duggars are self absorbed, inconsiderate dolts. Joy showed up for the day rocking hair that looked like it hadn't been washed in a couple of days and she'd forgotten to even brush it this day. This freaking dress shopping required a plane ride but chick couldn't be bothered to do anything with the mop on her head. Mrs. Renee only has a business to run, don't worry about dragging this out even longer and wasting her time. Never fear though, Jessa travels with husband, two littles and a curling iron. So, time had to be taken out of the appointment for Jessa to curl Joy's hair to help them get a better grasp of the whole picture. Good on you, Jessa, for taking charge but perhaps Joy should have forgone her damn eggs that morning for breakfast, washed her tresses and just grabbed a granola bar as they left home. Very immature of her but to be expected at her age, I suppose. A clear indication she isn't ready to marry, have a honeymoon baby and be expected to raise a child when she has moments of acting like one herself. 

Gosh, it might sound harsh but I just had to get it out. You know, cleanse my soul so I can have room to absorb more BS on next weeks episode LOL 

[QuinnInND]

Does anyone have a picture of the dress she picked?  Sounds like I didn't miss much. 

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, HahYallDoin said:

This freaking dress shopping required a plane ride but chick couldn't be bothered to do anything with the mop on her head. Mrs. Renee only has a business to run, don't worry about dragging this out even longer and wasting her time. 

They really were beyond rude and it's pretty obvious why they're traveling to Bumfuck, Kentucky to shop for dresses as opposed to doing a crossover with Kleinfeld's. If Joy is that much of an anti-bride she should've chosen the first dress that looked halfway decent and put everyone out of their misery.

I don't even think it's so much the cult upbringing that's the cause of her indecisiveness as it is that Joy is just dumb as a box of rocks. Even if you're not a fashionista, you know whether you like something or you don't. Joy standing their slack-jawed mumbling "uhhh...I dunno....I don't care...uhhh" and then calling Austin crying was beyond ridiculous. 

[Sew Sumi]

@QuinninND (not sure why this isn't tagging), just google Joy Duggar wedding. You'll get plenty of hits. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[becca3891]

On 9/15/2017 at 11:27 AM, TheGreenWave said:

 

7 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

That's one way that young kids cope when they have their minds and emotions and opinions viciously, continually squelched. When any thought or desire or preference (etc etc) that you might have is highly likely to get you into trouble or at least declared damnably wrong -- and your abusers are chaotic so you can't tell which thought might do that -- your young brain may sensibly conclude that the best route to successful survival is to turn everything off at the source.

In other words, you kill your own mind and soul at an early age to escape the confusion and pain of having other people do it on a daily basis. ..... Joy, for example, was, I'm sure, simply not permitted to express a strong preference for having Joshley not stick his dirty teenage hand up her tiny vagina again. .... And that's just one of, no doubt, thousands and thousands of opinions she was discouraged from having, from birth, basically, in that sick household. 

Besides Joy -- now deemed a "brat" by the public because she can't just out with a ready and sure opinion about her wedding cake or wedding dress, after nearly 20 years of doing her level best to have as few personal feelings and views as possible -- there are other people in the Duggar compound who've done the exact same thing to themselves. You can bank on it. Dull stupid Gothardite Jana, who's really not all that and probably just wants to stay around the compound forever cleaning up after Meeechelle, as the TeeVee viewers say. Stupid worthless Jill (so the TeeVee viewers say) who, unaccountably, just always says -- "I want whatever you want, Der." Boring boring Joe, who looks 10 and 45 at the same time. Not one bit of any of that is unaccountable.

Churchhoney, thank you for posting this. You've helped me realize that snarking about Joy's vapid indecisiveness without considering enough WHY she is the way she is, was wrong. It's really sad to consider how much psychological damage is likely done thanks to their belief system.

[Churchhoney]

17 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

 

I don't even think it's so much the cult upbringing that's the cause of her indecisiveness as it is that Joy is just dumb as a box of rocks. Even if you're not a fashionista, you know whether you like something or you don't. Joy standing their slack-jawed mumbling "uhhh...I dunno....I don't care...uhhh" and then calling Austin crying was beyond ridiculous. 

I'm not so sure.

I agree that Joy's not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, but I think it's unlikely that that was her only reason for acting the way she did. For one thing, I know plenty of not-very-smart people who know exactly what kind of dresses and cake they like and will give you their opinions quite emphatically on many many things without hesitation.  

Sounds to me more like she was feeling paralyzed and stymied and really really wishing (although maybe without admitting it to herself)  that she'd been allowed to say she didn't want this kind of a damn wedding -- and have her opinion prevail. And if you know -- or at least believe -- that your voice will not be heard and heeded on an issue that's so personal to you, that fact pretty often tends to mess up your ability to assert your voice -- or, usually, to even feel and know your opinion so you can voice it -- on related matters as well. Once it's been made perfectly plain to you that your opinion is not wanted and will not be considered on matters that, in fact, concern you more than anybody else, you may well get so angry inside and repress that anger so much that it paralyzes you into a basket case.

I admit that I don't watch the show, but what I'm hearing here about the dress and the cake resonates strongly with things I felt and did as a teen and 20-something. 

When I think back to what I was like and read what's being said about Joy, I can't even tell you how I would have been disdained by a tv audience had I had the horrible misfortune to be televised at her age. But the fact was -- or at least I think it's the fact! -- that I had just been well and truly fucked over by my upbringing and was acting out the mess that had been made inside me by my parenting. Hard for me not to conclude that this was at least part of Joy's problem, too. 

[TeaTV]

On 9/25/2017 at 8:05 PM, Sew Sumi said:

Is Joy raising her arm in triumph? Pride? Relief? Joy? This pose and the fact that all the Duggar brides say they "can't believe" they're getting married over and over and over again is another indication of their brainwashing. Or maybe Joy's just displaying typical 19-year-old behavior in this pic? Either way, it seems a really weird pose to strike once you're pronounced man and wife imo and I should know because that was pretty much what I felt when I was married off young by religious crazies who did nothing more than tell me to find a man, get married, make grandbabies but for God's sake, don't have sex before you're married or you'll burn in hell--which could be another reason Joy's feeling triumphant (over Satan).

[Churchhoney]

26 minutes ago, TVwithTea said:

Is Joy raising her arm in triumph? Pride? Relief? Joy? This pose and the fact that all the Duggar brides say they "can't believe" they're getting married over and over and over again is another indication of their brainwashing. Or maybe Joy's just displaying typical 19-year-old behavior in this pic? Either way, it seems a really weird pose to strike once you're pronounced man and wife imo and I should know because that was pretty much what I felt when I was married off young by religious crazies who did nothing more than tell me to find a man, get married, make grandbabies but for God's sake, don't have sex before you're married or you'll burn in hell--which could be another reason Joy's feeling triumphant (over Satan).

I kind of wonder whether it isn't a combination of "I've succeeded as a Duggar and in the eyes of God and Gothard!! I've fulfilled my destiny, and I so young! Whoopeee!" with a secret side of "And now I can get out of that damned TTH! (and Meeeechelle can find somebody else to clean her bedroom!) Woot!" 

I can see both those feelings taking place at once.  ;  )

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, TVwithTea said:

Is Joy raising her arm in triumph? Pride? Relief? Joy? This pose and the fact that all the Duggar brides say they "can't believe" they're getting married over and over and over again is another indication of their brainwashing. Or maybe Joy's just displaying typical 19-year-old behavior in this pic? Either way, it seems a really weird pose to strike once you're pronounced man and wife imo and I should know because that was pretty much what I felt when I was married off young by religious crazies who did nothing more than tell me to find a man, get married, make grandbabies but for God's sake, don't have sex before you're married or you'll burn in hell--which could be another reason Joy's feeling triumphant (over Satan).

I see this as an "hooray !!!!!" So probably the later. 

[orangeiguana]

36 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Is Joy raising her arm in triumph? Pride? Relief? Joy?

This is a popular bride move, like she just won a boxing match, and it's SO unflattering and inelegant.

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, orangeiguana said:

This is a popular bride move, like she just won a boxing match, and it's SO unflattering and inelegant.

Boy, for people who never ever look at any media whatsoever and don't appear to have any friends and actually preach that they shun all the goings-on of the contemporary world, the Duggars sure as heck never miss a damn trend, do they? I guess as they stare at their phones all day they're just tracking fads. 

[TeaTV]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I kind of wonder whether it isn't a combination of "I've succeeded as a Duggar and in the eyes of God and Gothard!! (PRIDE/TRIUMPH) I've fulfilled my destiny, and I so young! Whoopeee!" (JOY) with a secret side of "And now I can get out of that damned TTH! (and Meeeechelle can find somebody else to clean her bedroom!) Woot!" (RELIEF)

Same diff.

[Pingaponga]

I think Joy would have benefited by having fewer family members around to give her advice.  She had her grandmother, mother, Jana, Jessa, Jinger, Johanna, Jennifer, Jordyn and Josie.  That's 9 people - plus "Miss Renee" - providing a commentary and giving suggestions.  I know that when I'm indecisive about something, the fewer people advising me the better.  All the voices get into your head and you can't hear yourself think, much less figure out what exactly you want.  She'd have been better off with maybe two sisters, and that's it.  The poor girl looked close to tears several times.

Jinger seems to have grown beyond her family.  Just the way she was sitting, her body language, her style.  She obviously misses her sisters, but is clearly happy where she is and with the life she now has.  Good for her!

[BitterApple]

15 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

Jinger seems to have grown beyond her family.  Just the way she was sitting, her body language, her style.  She obviously misses her sisters, but is clearly happy where she is and with the life she now has.  Good for her!

I noticed that as well. Jinger seems so much more confident compared to the days when she was Jessa's lap dog. I think she was happy to visit with everyone but nothing about her demeanor suggested any sort of longing or homesickness. It was almost like she humoring them until she could get back to her real life in Laredo. 

[humbleopinion]

Jinge is addicted to the TLC paycheck plus she wanted to keep Joy from getting a hideous dress or worse... a copy of her dress.

[madpsych78]

5 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm not so sure.

I agree that Joy's not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, but I think it's unlikely that that was her only reason for acting the way she did. For one thing, I know plenty of not-very-smart people who know exactly what kind of dresses and cake they like and will give you their opinions quite emphatically on many many things without hesitation.  

Sounds to me more like she was feeling paralyzed and stymied and really really wishing (although maybe without admitting it to herself)  that she'd been allowed to say she didn't want this kind of a damn wedding -- and have her opinion prevail. And if you know -- or at least believe -- that your voice will not be heard and heeded on an issue that's so personal to you, that fact pretty often tends to mess up your ability to assert your voice -- or, usually, to even feel and know your opinion so you can voice it -- on related matters as well. Once it's been made perfectly plain to you that your opinion is not wanted and will not be considered on matters that, in fact, concern you more than anybody else, you may well get so angry inside and repress that anger so much that it paralyzes you into a basket case.

I admit that I don't watch the show, but what I'm hearing here about the dress and the cake resonates strongly with things I felt and did as a teen and 20-something. 

When I think back to what I was like and read what's being said about Joy, I can't even tell you how I would have been disdained by a tv audience had I had the horrible misfortune to be televised at her age. But the fact was -- or at least I think it's the fact! -- that I had just been well and truly fucked over by my upbringing and was acting out the mess that had been made inside me by my parenting. Hard for me not to conclude that this was at least part of Joy's problem, too. 

Like I totally believe this about Joy (and most of the other Duggar daughters), but that doesn't explain Jessa.

[AnnieBeez]

I couldn't help but notice the difference in Joy in the "previously" where she's talking about her house renovation and the dress shopping. She was happy and animated when talking about the house. Joy doesn't CARE about the damn big wedding nonsense. I agree that all those people telling her what she does and doesn't want had to be overwhelming. Joy just wants to get married. She doesn't want the wedding. 

I also could NOT believe that the shopping had to be paused so Jessa could do her hair. Really?! How rude! Those poor little girls must have been bored out of their minds. 

Total agreement about Joy's reaction to Michelle v anyone and everyone else. Jana's reaction and words show that she's the one who actually knows and loves the kids as individuals. 

Also, I'm really curious who Jana was texting during the dress-shopping. 

[loloandco]

13 minutes ago, PuhLeeze said:

Also, I'm really curious who Jana was texting during the dress-shopping. 

Or maybe TLC is just toying with us...

[AnnieBeez]

12 minutes ago, loloandco said:

Or maybe TLC is just toying with us...

I'm hoping it's Laura. That'd be amazing. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

On 9/26/2017 at 4:53 PM, Autumn0516 said:

Michelle is a dink, but her "hot pink dress" comment seemed like actual, real joking around! I was shocked! 

I keep seeing this post at the top of he page, and it keeps striking me funny. I remember for a while, the acronym DINK (coined around the same time as the word Yuppie, which totally ages me!) stood for "double income, no kids". 

Does anyone still use that? Anyway, it's certainly pretty far from describing Michelle in that sense!

[woodscommaelle]

4 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

I think Joy would have benefited by having fewer family members around to give her advice. 

Though I'm not really a fan, cousin Amy would have probably been the best person for Joy to take dress shopping.  I feel like they have a good relationship if I'm remembering correctly.

[xwordfanatik]

I'm still waiting for Jinjer to wear pants on the show.  She wears them in real life, so why not?  Because of Boob and Ma Kettle?  Or is it written in her contract that she can't be herself?  What horseshit.

[humbleopinion]

When there is a lull in the wedding, births revolving door...TLC will tout a Very Special Episode...Jinge wearing pants without a denim skirt obliterating her nether regions... prancing and sashaying around her hometown in slacks

[Churchhoney]

17 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Like I totally believe this about Joy (and most of the other Duggar daughters), but that doesn't explain Jessa.

Not everybody responds to things in the same way, obviously... But ... do you really think that Jessa knows herself and knows what she really really wants out of life? Do you really think Jessa speaks her own mind or ever actually stands up to the law of Gothard, in any detail? She can be a mean girl -- but isn't it pretty much always in defense of her parents' ideas and her parents' ideas only? And we've heard from a lot of people that when she's out among people other than her long-term intimates, she comes across as a massive scaredy cat -- which doesn't really seem to go with her natural personality. So there's some of her cognitive dissonance. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Churchhoney

[queenanne]

3 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

I'm still waiting for Jinjer to wear pants on the show.  She wears them in real life, so why not?  Because of Boob and Ma Kettle?  Or is it written in her contract that she can't be herself?  What horseshit.

Maybe TLC thinks their brand is so invested in the human cardboard cutouts 'keeping sweet ' that they won't let the girls wear pants.