S02.E01: A Father's Advice

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree with some others, that the adoption story could have been better, but, now, with Beth being so hesitant....I"m not so sure. I like her idea of adopting an older child, HOWEVER, she really needs to do her homework.  These children may be MUCH more challenging than a newborn. There are so many factors to consider, like safety for the girls.  Older children, who have a history of abuse and neglect may require a lifetime of direct attention and have hard to manage behavior problems. 

Okay....please tell me did  Rebecca ACTUALLY knock on the door again and insist that Jack come with her OR was this the way she reenacts it in her mind? Did she actually leave and not insist he join her and that's a decision that she regrets?  I'm not sure why I got that feeling.  Things went dark, then they changed.  

I've had relationships with loved ones and friends who had alcoholism.  I know people are different, but, I do NOT believe that you don't know when you live in the house with that person.  For one thing, that much alcohol, actually comes out in the skin or scent of the person.  

I'm not sure that I am up to watching Kate go after her dream of singing, like her mom did.  I wasn't aware that getting a top notch singing voice requires many hours of daily practice. (I heard Linda Rondstadt describe this in an interview. )  I can't envision Kate doing that. But, even if she does, how many men or women get their start in show business in their late 30's?  I wish her well, but, why not join something to sing for fun, like a community or church choir?  The gig she was trying for was a wedding singer, right?  Competition must be pretty stiff in LA for wedding singers. 

And lastly, why can't they leave out things about the K's.  Please.  why, why, why?????

[dogfish]

11 hours ago, Neurochick said:

The last scene of the burned out house was at night.  There was yellow tape still around the house, I wonder how long it had been since the fire.  Kate and a Randall were in Miguel's house, it looked like Miguel was telling them what happened.

The camera lingered on Kevin's cast, there were a lot of signatures on it.  I don't think Jack died saving Kevin or Kate.  To me Kevin broke his leg and Jack died weeks later.

Weren't there still a few firefighters hanging out in front of the house?  That's what I recall, meaning the fire occurred recently.

[PRgal]

Teenage Kevin is giving me Brandon Walsh vibes.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, pally said:

maybe he died saving her

The one thing I remember Kate saying about her father's death was that he died while no one was watching (or something like that). So I'm thinking whatever happened - related to the fire or not, Kate was the last one who saw him and left without "checking" on him.

 

11 hours ago, Amethyst said:

So Jack's been off the wagon for weeks?  Um, ok.  It's hard to believe that none of the Pearsons knew anything about this.  No whiff of alcohol, no stumbling or slurred words?  Or was there?  Hmm.  They better expand on this during the season.

Although there are high functioning alcoholics, I wonder about no one smelling anything. The few I've known have always reeked. But I have a particularly sensitive sniffer, and not that many alcoholic acquaintances.

10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

But in that case she could have just had him in a closed casket. I just can't imagine cremating someone who died in a fire when interment is an option. It's probably because the writers came up with the "Kate watches Steelers games with Jack's ashes" storyline before they figured out how Jack would die.

My family has always gone the cremation route - and it's in my will as well. I have trouble wrapping my head around why anyone would want to molder and rot in a grave, myself.

10 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I think I'm going to start doing a Toby defense corner. I feel like hos actions are never looked at from both sides.

The negative side most people only see. Toby is a jealous jerk that's too possessive and whiny. He also doesn't seem to understand how siblings or twins work.

Counterpoint

 

It is perfectly fair for someone you are about to marry to want some privacy and boundaries. Things should shift when potential spouses enter the picture. You shouldn't be made to feel like the third wheel in your relationship. Kevin is constantly acting blind to social cues while having to apologize for it later. It would get really old after a while. 

Yes, he needs to learn to stay calmer and express himself better. I also don't think that makes him a jealous asshole. I'm just not a fan of one sided judgements so I don't do that with him or others on tv. 

To go along with any fault Toby may have had here, Kevin needs to learn boundaries, Kate needs to learn how to read the person she's supposed to love, Randall needs to makes his marriage more of a partnership, Beth needs to learn her words. All flawed characters but very real.

I think boundaries are the biggest issue. Even in a close family, you have to have some boundaries when it comes to siblings' marriages.  I don't hate Toby, but I do recognize he's not the most appealing guy in many ways. As for the paying for dinner, from what I remember from the conversation it wasn't that Kevin was paying for THIS dinner, but that he always paid for dinner. Having a friend who insists on doing that all the time, I can understand that frustration. 

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

And lastly, why can't they leave out things about the K's.  Please.  why, why, why?????

What do you mean? 

[SunnyBeBe]

I"m not sure that I have that much investment in Toby, Kevin or Kate.  Toby has his issues, but, I can't see me being that into someone who is that involved with their sibling.  I'd consider it a trait that I couldn't tolerate.  Just too annoying and way too much work.  And then, there's the thing about Kate not really seeming to be into him........I mean, that's a lot of struggle and for what?

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

What do you mean? 

Those comments in the beginning about the Kardashians. 

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Those comments in the beginning about the Kardashians. 

OK, then, I agree.  I thought you meant Kate and Kevin.

[SunnyBeBe]

Just now, Katy M said:

OK, then, I agree.  I thought you meant Kate and Kevin.

Oh, no....Just that reference to the Kardashians, like they are royalty.  It was a huge turn off for me. 

[dogfish]

5 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

Toby needs to at least lose that swirly spot of hair on his balding head!

No doubt.  I think shaved heads look pretty "douchey", but I think Toby could benefit from it.

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

I think it also rings false that Miguel told Randall and Kate about Jack dying (if that is what happens).  I can't imagine Rebecca wouldn't be the one to tell them. Even if they knew something happened and Jack was at the hospital (which I think he would have had to be for Rebecca to be given his belongings), news like that would normally come from a parent.

It looks like Miguel told Randall and Kate, but I'm not sure that is what happens.  Rebecca was coming back from somewhere--the hospital?  The Police station?  She could have done something like tell Randall and Kate over the phone.  Of course, why were they at Miguel's?  My guess is that either Rebecca sent them over there or they were somehow involved in the fire--not that they caused it, but that they were at the house when it happened.  Kate always says she killed her father--maybe she left her curling iron on next to a box of tissues?  (Sorry, Friends on the brain....)

Whatever the case, I do find it strange that Randall and Kate (and random redheaded girl) were told, but not Kevin.  For that kind of news--which is much bigger than "Mom and I are taking a few days for ourselves," you would gather all the kids.  And you would definitely not give the responsibility of telling one of the kids to another of the kids, even if one kid decided on her own to do so.  Yeah, Rebecca was in her own hell at the moment, but Miguel--the adult--was right there.  And, again, they somehow gathered Kate and Randall, so why not Kevin?

As for Kevin and the broken leg.  I really don't think that it has anything to do with Jack or the house fire.  Instead, my guess is that it was a career-ending football injury--the one thing that Kevin was good at--which led him to something he's sort of good at, but definitely has the looks for--acting.

Someone upthread said that Beth and Randall adopting an older child is far too reminiscent of Parenthood...and, DING DING DING!  I get that both are family dramas and both try to hit all the emotional notes (although I think that Parenthood had a better track record in that area), but this is the first time I've felt that TIU was too close to Parenthood.  Remind me again?  There is a connection between these two shows?

[Mrs. DuRona]

3 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

this is the first time I've felt that TIU was too close to Parenthood.  Remind me again?  There is a connection between these two shows?

Same showrunners/creators.  So, yeah.  It makes sense.

[Mldh598]

11 hours ago, gfball said:

Heck!  Not a fire! I thought they were gonna have a wreck on the way home from Rebecca getting him to get into the car! 

This is exactly what I was thinking as I watched.

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

And, again, they somehow gathered Kate and Randall, so why not Kevin?

Because he wasn't around and the kids didn't have cell phones. I agree with the above speculation that red headed girl is probably Miguel's daughter because the only other red head on the show was Miguel's exwife.

[AriAu]

A few random thoughts:

1. Mid life crisis Randall is pretty annoying. I know we are supposed to assume that it is "Happy Randall", but damn, he is annoying. SKB is a great actor, so I have to assume he is supposed to play it that way, but the younger Randall is not a happy person, so it makes very little sense.

2. Is Kevin a really bad actor, is Justin Hartley a really bad actor or is Justin Hartley a really good actor since he is playing Kevin as such a bad actor?? This scene of him proposing was just awful.

3. The time line is going to get pretty messed up on the day of death. There had to be hours between him dying and her going home with his personal effects. And how the hell was she allowed to drive home-it was only 20 years ago. Twins are 17 at the time, so 20 years ago was 1997, not exactly the same as the 70's. I don't think the station wagon was of that vintage either, but whatever.

4. Toby-chill buddy. If you have been around for close to a year and are somehow surprised that Kate told Kevin first, you have not been paying attention. That is never going to stop and you take that girl as you found her.

5. Was it just me or in the scene with William and Beth, did Beth bear a striking resemblance to Prince. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by AriAu

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, AriAu said:

And how the hell was she allowed to drive home-it was only 20 years ago.

Why wouldn't she be allowed to drive home? My aunt drove home from the hospital when my uncle died and that was two years ago.

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

Because he wasn't around and the kids didn't have cell phones. I agree with the above speculation that red headed girl is probably Miguel's daughter because the only other red head on the show was Miguel's exwife.

I do forget that cell phones haven't always existed!

Even so, my parents could always find me in...what year are we in now?  1998?  Kevin was with his girlfriend--and I don't think they were sneaking off.  They did find Kate and Randall (which, again, might have been because they were at the house when the fire started).  Kate and Sophie were friends, so it would have been easy to do the phone chain thing.

Disclaimer...I'm so over Jack's death that all this is annoying me and I'm being nitpicky.  I admit it.

2 minutes ago, AriAu said:

2. Is Kevin a really bad actor, is Justin Hartley a really bad actor or is Justin Hartley a really good actor since he is playing Kevin as such a bad actor?? This scene of him proposing was just awful.

I think Justin Hartley is a good enough actor who was playing a bad actor.  He made a comment later about how he wasn't a good actor, so I think the engagement scene was to send that home.  What I don't get was that he was supposedly such a good actor in Sloane's play...so good that Ron Howard was going to go against Hollywood taboo to hire a disgraced sit-com actor.

Quote

5. Was it just me or in the scene with William and Beth, did Beth bear a striking resemblance to Prince. 

Nope, not just you....

[Guest]

On his 36th birthday, Randall met William.  In that time, he moved in with them, got sicker, died, Randall quit his job, and also went through finding out his mom knew his biological father. That's a lot to go through in a year. I really hope the season culminates with the adoption agency saying "Are you kidding me?  You're in no shape to adopt right now."  An older kid especially needs stability and not someone who is adopting as a way to prove something to his deceased father and bio father.

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

 Kevin was with his girlfriend--and I don't think they were sneaking off

They were kissing on the side of a car so it's entirely possible they weren't near a phone.

 

1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

I don't think she could get past the audition for The Voice at this point, let alone be competitive

Oh I didn't say I thought it was in anyway realistic in fact quite the opposite but I just don't see them going down the road of years of open mic nights.

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Yeah I thought she missed an important part of that guy's speech that the Amber's of LA have been busting their ass for years and years to be the backup singer in the seventeenth best reviewed wedding band in southern California, so starting at 37 seems even more unrealistic. They will probably have her be like Susan Boyle and do a crossover with The Voice or have Kevin use his influence to get her a gig. I would much rather her focus on using the skills that have been alluded to in the Jaime Gertz episode and her organizing Kevin's life than go down this singing road.

From what we've seen, Kate is, at best, mediocre and her voice is not anywhere close to the standard required of a professional.  I don't think she could get past the audition for The Voice at this point, let alone be competitive.  And it is exceedingly strange that a 37 year old woman who hasn't sung regularly in years, who lives in LA and has some showbiz connections; would actually think she had a shot at a professional singing career with virtually no preparation.  Kate is not 17, surely she should realize how far she is from her 'dream' and that it is not realistic to expect to get professional gigs at her ability level.  At least this show isn't Parenthood where Lauren Graham's character repeatedly stepped into demanding careers like shoe design and photography with no training and experience and ended up outperforming people with actual professional training and experience.  Meanwhile, how is Kate paying the bills?  Now we know her father died when she was still a teen, it is pretty clear any inheritance she would've gotten via insurance was minimal.  Her mother would've needed the money to support the kids through college and there wouldn't have been much, if anything, left after that.

For that matter, this show has 3 37 year olds who have all quit well paying jobs to launch new careers.  How often does that happen, ever, let alone in the same family? Randall doesn't appear to have any career nor any career aspirations; considering their lifestyle, it seems unrealistic to expect that Beth's return to the workforce can replace his contribution.  Meanwhile, Kevin quit a multimillion dollar gig on a sitcom.  He's now got other work, but that was surely not guaranteed.  And, most ridiculous of all, Kate, who apparently depended on her rich actor brother for her previous career is now trying to become a professional singer despite a noticeable lack of talent and training.  It makes no sense on so many levels.

Edited September 27, 2017 by doodlebug

[doodlebug]

Just now, biakbiak said:

Oh I didn't say I thought it was in anyway realistic in fact quite the opposite but I just don't see them going down the road of years of open mic nights.

If that's where they're going, we need to see Kate get some singing lessons STAT and be a really quick study.  The actress herself doesn't appear to have much training or experience (or else it is just acting the part); if they're going with "Kate is a natural talent who needs no training" they're off to a very bad start.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

For that matter, this show has 3 37 year olds who have all quit well paying jobs to launch new careers.  How often does that happen, ever, let alone in the same family? Randall doesn't appear to have any career nor any career aspirations; considering their lifestyle, it seems unrealistic to expect that Beth's return to the workforce can replace his contribution.  Meanwhile, Kevin quit a multimillion dollar gig on a sitcom.  He's now got other work, but that was surely not guaranteed.  And, most ridiculous of all, Kate, who apparently depended on her rich actor brother for her previous career is now trying to become a professional singer despite a noticeable lack of talent and training.  It makes no sense on so many levels.

Completely agreed! Kevin made sense, on some level.  When he quit his job, I could see it.  He still stayed in the acting vein.  But the rest is just so strange.

Not to mention Kate was so entitled.  Sure, walk out of an audition, go back, get dismissed, and the only possible reason could be your size.  

[Katy M]

16 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

It looks like Miguel told Randall and Kate, but I'm not sure that is what happens.  Rebecca was coming back from somewhere--the hospital?  The Police station?  She could have done something like tell Randall and Kate over the phone.  Of course, why were they at Miguel's?  My guess is that either Rebecca sent them over there or they were somehow involved in the fire--not that they caused it, but that they were at the house when it happened.  Kate always says she killed her father--maybe she left her curling iron on next to a box of tissues?  (Sorry, Friends on the brain....)

Whatever the case, I do find it strange that Randall and Kate (and random redheaded girl) were told, but not Kevin.  For that kind of news--which is much bigger than "Mom and I are taking a few days for ourselves," you would gather all the kids.  And you would definitely not give the responsibility of telling one of the kids to another of the kids, even if one kid decided on her own to do so.  Yeah, Rebecca was in her own hell at the moment, but Miguel--the adult--was right there.  And, again, they somehow gathered Kate and Randall, so why not Kevin?

Probably what happened was this.  Everybody but Kevin was home.  Therefore, they knew what happened.  Either Jack was dead on the scene or they transported him to the hospital.  Either way kids get sent to Miguel's while Rebecca goes to hospital or whatever.  She then goes back to Miguel's and tells the kdis that dad didn't make it and then gets back in car to find Kevin.  But, instead she feels pull to house and goes there.  Kate, meanwhile, decides she has to tell Kevin.  and tells Randall this.  I'm not sure whether or not Miguel heard her. She slips out and finds Kevin, because I'm sure she would know better where to look than Rebecca. 

5 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

For that matter, this show has 3 37 year olds who have all quit well paying jobs to launch new careers.  How often does that happen, ever, let alone in the same family.  Randall doesn't appear to have any career nor any career aspirations; considering their lifestyle, it seems unrealistic to expect that Beth's return to the workforce can replace his contribution.  Meanwhile, Kevin quit a multimillion dollar gig on a sitcom.  He got other work, but that was surely not guaranteed.  And, most ridiculous of all, Kate, who apparently depended on her rich actor brother for her previous career is now trying to become a professional singer despite a noticeable lack of talent and training.  It makes no sense on so many levels.

Kevin quit his job, but technically is not switching careers.  He's still an actor.  Kate was Kevin's assistant.  So, that's a job she could get back any time she wants it.  Randall had a breakdown. Sure, it's weird that it al happened so fast in one family, but each individual one is not so strange.

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

The actress herself doesn't appear to have much training or experience (or else it is just acting the part); if they're going with "Kate is a natural talent who needs no training" they're off to a very bad start.

She apparently was discovered because of her singing, fronts a band and considers herself a singer. I agree that she isn't that talented but it wouldn't be the first show that didn't acknowledge a discrepancy in talent between what was shown and how it was received on the show (I still shudder at the thought of Katie Holmes singing on Dawson's Creek) and how viewers receive it.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

She apparently was discovered because of her singing, fronts a band and considers herself a singer. I agree that she isn't that talented but it wouldn't be the first show that didn't acknowledge a discrepancy in talent between what was shown and how it was received on the show (I still shudder at the thought of Katie Holmes singing on Dawson's Creek) and how viewers receive it.

But, they also told her that she wasn't good, and exactly why.  It is very possible she's not singing to her best ability in order that she can have voice growth over the season.  I've never heard her sing IRL, so I don't know.  Just a theory.

[VioletNevermind]

The entire time Kate sang at the audition that she marched in and rudely demanded, I was terrified that she was going to get the gig as a reward for her show of "strength" and "bravery."  I want to have more faith that the writers won't set up a perfectly perfect outcome for her this season, but I'm getting nervous.  As a fellow "woman of size," I want to like and root for Kate, but damn, is it hard sometimes.  I find her to be extremely off-putting.  She's about 30 years too old to act the way she does half the time.  

[biakbiak]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

But, they also told her that she wasn't good, and exactly why.  It is very possible she's not singing to her best ability in order that she can have voice growth over the season.  I've never heard her sing IRL, so I don't know.  Just a theory.

I have and didn't find the difference that remarkable. I mean I don't think she is a terrible singer, just not let's pursue this dream at the age of 37 amazing type singer.

[Phoebe70]

Random thoughts...

-Once again Toby annoys me.  Kate's brother rents out a nice restaurant just being a nice guy, and Toby flips out on him?  Go away, Toby.  Not even the beard can make me like you.

-I am so glad that Kate did not get the singing gig.  Honestly her singing voice is not that great, and if she got the job I would've been pissed.

-Why is Ron Howard on?  I mean, I know why, but I don't think he adds anything to the show.

-I was bothered by Beth's behavior in front of the adoption specialist/social worker.  Couldn't she have discussed her doubts with Randall in private beforehand?

 

It was a decent episode, but maybe I was expecting too much.  This is one of the only episodes in which I didn't cry.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, SuzyLee said:

The entire time Kate sang at the audition that she marched in and rudely demanded, I was terrified that she was going to get the gig as a reward for her show of "strength" and "bravery."  I want to have more faith that the writers won't set up a perfectly perfect outcome for her this season, but I'm getting nervous.  As a fellow "woman of size," I want to like and root for Kate, but damn, is it hard sometimes.  I find her to be extremely off-putting.  She's about 30 years too old to act the way she does half the time.  

I liked that she went back. I wish the auditions hadn't quite ended yet and she could have slipped in without anyone realizing she left.  And, while I'm glad that she found out it wasn't her size, but her singing, I hated that she even accused them of that.  Because, when you're in the entertainment business, yes, sometimes it will come down to looks.  And, you can't yell at people for that. It's just the way it is.

[Earmuffs Mom]

5 hours ago, debraran said:

I was thinking the kids could have been crying because of the fire and Jack went to rehab and the death happens later, that would be a big twist. She was seeing the house for the first time it seems. Maybe he caused that fire and stuff happens later.  18 episodes to get through. ; )

I really like this theory!

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

I think I'm going to start doing a Toby defense corner. I feel like hos actions are never looked at from both sides.

The negative side most people only see. Toby is a jealous jerk that's too possessive and whiny. He also doesn't seem to understand how siblings or twins work.

Counterpoint

 

It is perfectly fair for someone you are about to marry to want some privacy and boundaries. Things should shift when potential spouses enter the picture. You shouldn't be made to feel like the third wheel in your relationship. Kevin is constantly acting blind to social cues while having to apologize for it later. It would get really old after a while. 

Yes, he needs to learn to stay calmer and express himself better. I also don't think that makes him a jealous asshole. I'm just not a fan of one sided judgements so I don't do that with him or others on tv. 

To go along with any fault Toby may have had here, Kevin needs to learn boundaries, Kate needs to learn how to read the person she's supposed to love, Randall needs to makes his marriage more of a partnership, Beth needs to learn her words. All flawed characters but very real.

These are all fair points. If Toby had worded it better, of course I'd probably be able to look at his point of view with ease. However, it was absolutely how he handled it that got me turned off. The thing about Toby is that his issue wasn't with Kevin, but he was taking it out on him. Toby's issue was with his own insecurities about Kate's close relationship with Kevin. What Toby was conveying, even if it wasn't what he meant, was that he wanted to take Kevin's place as Kate's number 1. He was jealous that, after 37 years, Kate was choosing her twin over him, someone she only met one year ago to the day and was engaged with. Toby's expectation seemed to be that he wanted Kate to change her relationship with Kevin in order to put Toby first. His "you're not her father" line was completely out of line and for me, it was something that didn't make much sense. So what? Kate can only be protected by a father and not her own brother? It would only be acceptable if Kevin was her father? What makes Toby, her fiance, better than Kevin, her twin brother? 

Toby's insecurities are his insecurities, that's for sure, but it's not the first time he's acted like this before. I get that he wants Kate to share with him more, but I'm not sure why it has to be him or Kevin, and not both. Toby's attitude made it seem like he wanted to take Kevin's place and that he should be more important than Kevin. Kevin has boundary issues, for sure, but I didn't find anything in this episode his fault. Toby is still getting to know Kate; personally, I still feel like they rushed into an engagement too quickly. They only got engaged at the beginning of the year and they still have a long way to go to get past their issues, so hopefully a wedding isn't anywhere in sight for the two of them. They need more time to figure out where they stand. 

I will be rewatching the episode tonight and maybe then, I'll see things more clearly and I'll have a different point of view to share.

[laurakaye]

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Yeah I thought she missed an important part of that guy's speech that the Amber's of LA have been busting their ass for years and years to be the backup singer in the seventeenth best reviewed wedding band in southern California, so starting at 37 seems even more unrealistic. They will probably have her be like Susan Boyle and do a crossover with The Voice or have Kevin use his influence to get her a gig. I would much rather her focus on using the skills that have been alluded to in the Jaime Gertz episode and her organizing Kevin's life than go down this singing road.

Oh please no, no Voice.  But if they do, you know all four chairs are going to whip around in record time, because Kate.

 

53 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh, no....Just that reference to the Kardashians, like they are royalty.  It was a huge turn off for me. 

Same here, and I am kind of stunned how many times the Kardashian name comes up in random tv shows, books, radio, etc.  They're never going to go away if everyone keeps referencing them!

 

34 minutes ago, AriAu said:

2. Is Kevin a really bad actor, is Justin Hartley a really bad actor or is Justin Hartley a really good actor since he is playing Kevin as such a bad actor?? This scene of him proposing was just awful.

This is a question for the ages!  I am having a hard time suspending my belief that RON HOWARD sought out Kevin to star in his movie.  I mean, isn't that kind of like Martin Scorsese asking Full House's Uncle Jesse to star in his next magnum opus?

[Runningwild]

Randall’s adoption story resembles SKB’s story on Army Wives. I might start referring to Beth as Joan. They better not adopt an angelic boy named David with HIV. 

 

I do NOT want to watch Kate become a singer. Didn’t really care for Becca’s singing s/l. 

As for the fire - everyone and Jack’s things look too clean to have been in one. 

 

Spoiler

I did see an interview with Dan Fogelman and he says it is not a misdirect and the fire is “directly responsible” for Jack’s death  

Edited September 27, 2017 by Runningwild

[dogfish]

We are all assuming that Jack died in the fire because for an entire year we have had the knowledge that he does die at some point in the children's teen years. We have been anticipating the big reveal...we want an answer to how he died.  The PTB may have presented us with this ending because they knew we would jump all over it.  Just because his possessions are in a bag does not mean he's dead.  He could be in jail, rehab, the hospital, or perhaps the witness protection program. :)  It just seems too easy, after stringing us along for a year, that the writers would give it up in EP 1 of year 2.

YMMV

Edited September 27, 2017 by dogfish
Oxford comma - new rule :)

[Racj82]

52 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

These are all fair points. If Toby had worded it better, of course I'd probably be able to look at his point of view with ease. However, it was absolutely how he handled it that got me turned off. The thing about Toby is that his issue wasn't with Kevin, but he was taking it out on him. Toby's issue was with his own insecurities about Kate's close relationship with Kevin. What Toby was conveying, even if it wasn't what he meant, was that he wanted to take Kevin's place as Kate's number 1. He was jealous that, after 37 years, Kate was choosing her twin over him, someone she only met one year ago to the day and was engaged with. Toby's expectation seemed to be that he wanted Kate to change her relationship with Kevin in order to put Toby first. His "you're not her father" line was completely out of line and for me, it was something that didn't make much sense. So what? Kate can only be protected by a father and not her own brother? It would only be acceptable if Kevin was her father? What makes Toby, her fiance, better than Kevin, her twin brother? 

Toby's insecurities are his insecurities, that's for sure, but it's not the first time he's acted like this before. I get that he wants Kate to share with him more, but I'm not sure why it has to be him or Kevin, and not both. Toby's attitude made it seem like he wanted to take Kevin's place and that he should be more important than Kevin. Kevin has boundary issues, for sure, but I didn't find anything in this episode his fault. Toby is still getting to know Kate; personally, I still feel like they rushed into an engagement too quickly. They only got engaged at the beginning of the year and they still have a long way to go to get past their issues, so hopefully a wedding isn't anywhere in sight for the two of them. They need more time to figure out where they stand. 

I will be rewatching the episode tonight and maybe then, I'll see things more clearly and I'll have a different point of view to share.

It's also worth noting that this is not a new situation. Take whatever happened in this episode and multiple it by a large number. That's how many times Kevin was the big spender during dinner, coming in unannounced, making Toby feel like a third a wheel, Kate not noticing any of this. Toby needs to communicate. Communication is key but neither Kevin or Kate seem to be able to read irritation at all or don't care. This is a common occurrence. That's going to cause built up resentment. There is better way to handle the situation. There usually is with Toby. But, it doesn't mean I don't understand every reaction he had this episode. Kate and Kevin remind of Roseanne and Jackie on Roseanne. Those two were all about each other. Each others person! to the point where the men seemed expendable. No one wants to be in that situation. Key words boundaries and communcation. All three of them need to learn that.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Racj82

[Gurkel]

45 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Disclaimer...I'm so over Jack's death that all this is annoying me and I'm being nitpicky.  I admit it.

The show is doing this to me--to us. Too many clues, red herrings, and psych outs. Car accident? Nope. Construction accident? Nope. Shot in a bar fight? Nope. And it has become tiring. It's reminiscent of Kate Beckett's mother's death on Castle  

I did like the kids' reactions after learning about Jack's death. The young actors did a great job. 

 

13 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Oh please no, no Voice.  But if they do, you know all four chairs are going to whip around in record time, because Kate.

 

Same here, and I am kind of stunned how many times the Kardashian name comes up in random tv shows, books, radio, etc.  They're never going to go away if everyone keeps referencing them!

 

This is a question for the ages!  I am having a hard time suspending my belief that RON HOWARD sought out Kevin to star in his movie.  I mean, isn't that kind of like Martin Scorsese asking Full House's Uncle Jesse to star in his next magnum opus?

From what I can tell, Kevin is still really, really popular, isn't if he isn't the greatest actor out there. And the movie sounds like a rom-com, something he can handle. Not, say, Ghandi or Sophie's Choice. 

[pawsodoom]

45 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Probably what happened was this.  Everybody but Kevin was home.  Therefore, they knew what happened.  Either Jack was dead on the scene or they transported him to the hospital.  Either way kids get sent to Miguel's while Rebecca goes to hospital or whatever.  She then goes back to Miguel's and tells the kdis that dad didn't make it and then gets back in car to find Kevin.  But, instead she feels pull to house and goes there.  Kate, meanwhile, decides she has to tell Kevin.  and tells Randall this.  I'm not sure whether or not Miguel heard her. She slips out and finds Kevin, because I'm sure she would know better where to look than Rebecca. 

That was what my initial thought was about the timeline of events.

My gut reaction is that I don't think alcohol played a role in Jack's death. They set it up to make you think that (his revelation right before the house fire scene), but we know how they like to put twists in. The other reason is that none of Big 3 or even Rebecca seem to have a "problem" with alcohol, in terms of being averse to it. I'd think if my parent/spouse was an alcoholic, I wouldn't be casual about drinking it. Particularly Kate, if she feels "responsible" for Jack's death, and if it was in some way alcohol-related. I'd think she would shy away from drinking, then.

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm not all that curious about Jack's death.  I mean, it gets to the point, where, it's just like.....whatever. ( It's like who is LIzzy's bio daddy?  BlackList. )  At some point, it's just an annoying contrivance. 

[Miss Bones]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

I think Kevin's broken leg (probably from football?) is meant to be a time stamp.  When we see it happen in a future episode we'll know Jack's death isn't far away. 

 

7 hours ago, colorbars said:

Not sure if it's necessarily connected to how Jack dies, but there was some new developments with all the kids in that scene: Randall with the girlfriend, Kate with the dog, and Kevin with the leg. I'm sure it's just setting up for what flashbacks we can expect leading up to the reveal of just how Jack died.

 

I agree with both of these statements-- At least, that was also how I took it.  Kind of like when we got the flashback of them all at Jack's funeral, last season, and it gave us insight that he died when they were teens.

I also agree with whoever upthread said that Beth's new hairstyle looks like Prince's (Or the artist formerly known as Prince lol), and is NOT flattering.  Beth is beautiful, and that style is doing her NO favors.  I was a fan of the braids on her.

I also agree with whoever upthread said they must be coldhearted, because they were not moved by the end scene... I did not cry, either.  I got more teary-eyed by the whole William/Beth scene or Rebecca/Randall scene.

[TVForever]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

 

I guess it's an unpopular opinion but I think Toby (who I'm not a fan of at all) was right about wanting Kevin to take a step back.  If he and Kate are to be married she needs to change her mindset and make her husband the closest person to her.  I get the whole twin thing and that they've gone through a lot together and I don't think it would make a difference if Kevin was a sister.  Having a third person so close to one's marriage is asking for resentment.  Kevin doesn't have to remove himself entirely, but just give them space.  But it's really something Toby and KATE need to discuss. 

 

 

2 hours ago, topanga said:

For once, I'll defend Toby. I don't think he expects them to stop being twins, but he wishes that Kate needed him and opened up to him the way she does Kevin. And another little thing:  it was inconsiderate  for her to change outfits just because Kevin said so. And without acknowledging Toby, even though she'd just told him how much his opinion meant to her. Basically she keeps telling Toby, 'You're my person--unless Kevin is around. Then you don't matter.'

I'm also on Toby's side on this one. Your spouse/life partner has the right to be the #1 person in your life. And that includes your parents, siblings, best friend. And if Kate and Toby are now actually living together, then Heck Yeah, no one gets to just walk in to the house just because they have a key! And that's just respecting the people that live in the space, romantic attachment or not. I think that's what set Toby off for the rest of the night.

I get the "twin thing" between Kate and Kevin, but if Kate isn't ready or willing to draw some boundaries around her relationship with Toby (because that's her job, not Toby's), maybe she isn't ready to be married. And yep, Kevin needs to back off a little bit and give Kate's Man the chance to be her #1, no matter who it is. I say that because a lot of commenters Really. Don't. Like. Toby. I don't really have a problem with him though. He's like a great dane in a studio apartment. He means well, and he seems to really care for Kate, he just has to learn to tone down a bit. I also enjoy those times when it's just Kevin and Toby-maybe the show could explore more of a friendship for the two of them.

 Perhaps a LONG engagement while the three of them adjust to the changing dynamics.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TVForever

[NeverLate]

9 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

They have dragged it out too long. And, I have a feeling it will be even longer.

Not for me. This show continues to leave me wanting more, like a Movie I know I'll watch again. So it never drags for me. 

[Racj82]

2 minutes ago, TVForever said:

 

I'm also on Toby's side on this one. Your spouse/life partner has the right to be the #1 person in your life. And that includes your parents, siblings, best friend. And if Kate and Toby are now actually living together, then Heck Yeah, no one gets to just walk in to the house just because they have a key! And that's just respecting the people that live in the space, romantic attachment or not. I think that's what set Toby off for the rest of the night.

I get the "twin thing" between Kate and Kevin, but if Kate isn't ready or willing to draw some boundaries around her relationship with Toby (because that's her job, not Toby's), maybe she isn't ready to be married. And yep, Kevin needs to back off a little bit and give Kate's Man the chance to be her #1, no matter who it is. I say that because a lot of commenters Really. Don't. Like. Toby. I don't really have a problem with him though. He's like a great dane in a studio apartment. He means well, and he seems to really care for Kate, he just has to learn to tone down a bit. I also enjoy those times when it's just Kevin and Toby-maybe the show could explore more of a friendship for the two of them.

 Perhaps a LONG engagement while the three of them adjust to the changing dynamics.

Those three and Randall/Beth all need to take a long pause before they move on to the next phase in their lives. They all seem to have a lot to sort out right now and aren't taking the time to do it. But, baby steps. Hopefully, some of the lessons here stick.

Also, for the the love god, let Kate and Tobey just have some fun plotlines. No angst or miscommunications. Just let them live. That's part of the problem with those two. Toby is constantly written as the type of person that is at a extreme. Too involved, too supportive to a fault, too emotional. Kate too honestly. Just let them live.

[Drapers4thWife]

Quote

Because he wasn't around and the kids didn't have cell phones. I agree with the above speculation that red headed girl is probably Miguel's daughter because the only other red head on the show was Miguel's exwife

I think it's Miguel's daughter but also Mandy Moore let slip in an interview that

Spoiler

when the kids are told Randall has a girlfriend. So I think we'll find out that either Randall is dating Miguel's daughter or the redhead is just a girlfriend unrelated to Miguel.

[NeverLate]

10 hours ago, Cardie said:

He seemed to imply that Randall would like to get it on with their Mom. That was really weird and disturbing.

Young Randall saw the nasty argument between Jack and Rebecca, he was just being Randall, kind and thoughtful. Kev was jealous of that.

[Phoebe70]

7 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm not all that curious about Jack's death.  I mean, it gets to the point, where, it's just like.....whatever. ( It's like who is LIzzy's bio daddy?  BlackList. )  At some point, it's just an annoying contrivance. 

Yep.  That's how I feel too.  Jack is dead, and at this point I'm almost past the point of caring HOW he died.  I think they've dragged the mystery of his death on wayyyyy too long.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I'm thinking that there is no way that TIU would tell us how Jack died in the very first episode of the season. The speculation that he is in rehab is interesting. Perhaps he caused the fire while he was drunk and Rebecca had to drive him to rehab immediately after. OTOH, then I don't know why we would see the confession of his alcoholism and his resolve to do something about it before the fire. In any case, I'm sure there will be some more twists and turns to the story. I do hope that we know what happened by the end of this season. Past that and they are dragging it out way too much.

I think Toby is justified in feeling a little left out when Kevin is around but the way he handles it is just immature and wrong. I would hate to spend any time with him when he wasn't getting exactly what he wants because he doesn't know how to get over himself.

I find it interesting that two of the triplets seem to be re-living their parents lives. Randall with his adoption scheme and Kate with trying to make it as a singer at a later age in life. I'm not sure what to think about that. Are they trying to re-do what their parents did but do it more successfully this time around? And why do they feel they need to do that? Jack's death?

Rebecca seems to be justifying all the sacrifices she made for Jack by making excuses for him "he was right to push" and saying he was close to perfection. I'm not really seeing Jack that way. He had his upsides but there were a lot of downsides to him too. She wasn't wrong to love him but she seems to have made the wrong conclusions about their relationship. Maybe partly because he died prematurely. I'm glad Randall was not buying it. Of course, he had to go and call his marriage perfect which was annoying but whatever. At least he said it was perfect in it's imperfections.

[OtterMommy]

Back to Kate's/Chrissy Metz's singing...this is just a really a point of curiosity for me...but is Chrissy Metz really as bad a singer as Kate is?  I mean, if she is, why are we doing this????  But if it turns out that Metz is actually a fantastic singer and the bad singing was just acting (kind of like Hartley and the proposal scene), I guess I could see how it could work.

Nope, no I can't.  I'm sorry, but even if you have perfect pitch, all the karaoke practicing in the world is not going to make you good enough for whatever that was Kate was auditioning for (they said a wedding band but, man, that seemed pretty serious for a wedding band....).  I

If they wanted me to seriously buy that Kate could make it as a singer, I would have needed a lot more than one scene of her singing in a shower and one scene of her singing in a nursing home.  I would have needed to see that this was something that Kate truly did want to do, but didn't allow herself to consider.  Kind of how if they really needed me to buy that Kevin and Sophie were soul mates, there really needed to be something leading up to that beyond just Kevin ringing her doorbell.

[roughing it]

12 hours ago, pennben said:

Toby just has to go, in my opinion, his presence just irritates the hell out of me from his "scwhing" in response to Kate to his....well, just his being there annoys me.

I know there is a lid for every pot, but I just don't get what Kate sees in Toby.  He's just....ugh.  It's like when a good friend of yours is in a relationship with someone you despise, it's really hard to watch.  She's better off without him.  It's ok to be single.  I'm hoping that a nicer guy comes along for her.

[biakbiak]

9 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

But if it turns out that Metz is actually a fantastic singer and the bad singing was just acting (kind of like Hartley and the proposal scene

If you want you can judge for yourself a recent video with her band and A 2012 showcase (her part starts at the 1 minute mark). 

[ZeroDiscipline]

14 hours ago, notcreative enough said:

I'm sorry but I was laughing through Jacks drunk speech. 

Milo is really good at playing a real, day-to-day alcoholic. I stayed up to watch him on Fallon later and they showed the clip of him with Miguel, saying that sheets are for long-term guests. It was clear that he was drunk even then.

[Biggie B]

When Beth and Randall went to the park, at night, to continue discussing the adoption situation, who was watching their children? 

Since this show is a soap opera (a fancy one), the adoption is going to turn the family upside down. I'm not really looking forward to that. But no one wants to watch a happy family, makes for poor ratings.

I have no idea if the actress playing Kate is a good singer or not, but certainly the character Kate, at that audition, was not good (so clearly, if the actress herself is an amazing singer, she made it sound bad as per the script). And I'm glad the guy running the audition gave it to her straight up as to why he cut her off so quickly. 

Pretty much nothing about Toby is appealing to me. If Kate likes him ("The sexiest thing about you is that you make me feel sexy."), that's fine, but if he disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't be sad. He and Kate need to live together and figure out a rhythm and comfort with each other before actually getting married. They're still such strangers to each other. 

I don't really appreciate the cause/timing of Jack's death being dragged out over two or more seasons.  He's dead. His death devastated his family and still reverberates two decades later. I'd rather see the characters move forward and learn how to deal with their dad's death, which isn't a simple process, but if I, as a viewer, still have no idea what happened, why should I be invested in these characters? They have this big, horrible secret and it's wearing thin. 

I think Beth's new hairstyle is unbecoming, but I get that it's a device to show the passage of time and to differentiate between the present and flashbacks (even if those flashbacks are fairly recent). 

I realize I just complained about many things and stated nothing positive. I really do like this show and am in it for the long haul. There is some stellar acting and I appreciate that the characters are deeply flawed yet still have other aspects that make them worthy of our empathy and support.