S19.E39: Finale, Winner Revealed

[Jel]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Clearly Paul didn't play the "best game" - yaknow, considering he LOST and all. ;>

No, I get what you're saying; Paul did play the best in-House strategic game this season of anybody.  Paul's social game was seriously lacking, though, and hIs Jury management (with all its attendant strategic/social ramifications) sucked rotten eggs to the point of being an active negative.

And I'm kinda surprised to discover the frequent "Paul played the best game" comments are turning into a really serious pet peeve for me - but that's my problem, not yours.  :)

 

I agree 100% with this assessment.  What makes this doubly hilarious is Paul is asserting the exact same position as Russell Hantz.  After his second loss, Russell averred it was somehow "wrong" for Jurors to allow personal feelings to enter into their choice, and opined Juror votes should be based solely on appreciation for the strategic components of the player games in question.  To which Probst made a surprisingly astute (for Peachy, anyway) off-the-cuff observation which stuck with me, and which I will attempt to paraphrase here: the game Paul describes would be an interesting game indeed - but it wouldn't be Big Brother.

Maybe if Paul hadn't let his "returning vet" ego swell to the point of thinking he understood every possible ramification of BB despite having never watched a single season of the show,  he would have understood that.

I agree with you really -- hence my quoty quotes on the "best game" part.  I have objected to it being the "best game" since season 14, when many fans were really bitter and angry that Dan, who played the "best game" lost.  When you piss people off so much that a kind of non-player or lesser player actually wins, your game really wasn't that good. But back then, people just talked about the game play, not the jury management aspect, which was the biggest part of my argument.  I think it's the very same here, and I put Dan and Russell and Paul in the same category -- cut throat game play might win with some juries, but, rightly or wrongly, it won't with others.  

There are people who say all is fair in the game, as long as it's within the rules - those are the "best game" people I think.  And there are people who are more students of human nature, more manipulative and cunning, more charming, more persuasive and more calculating and understand that some people will be spiteful and some won't -- I put Will and Derrick in that category, and personally, I think those people are the best players because they don't need a "game play only" jury to win.  The trick is to figure out who's who in every season, and to properly assess your opponents and adjust your play accordingly.

[backformore]

The "best game" discussion makes me think of the difference between this game and something like The  Amazing Race (TAR).  IN TAR, there is a social aspect, as far as teams helping each other out, manipulating, sabotaging, etc. And there's an element of luck that plays into it.   BUT - the "best game" is pretty clearly the team who crosses the finish line first in the finale.  They can be hated by all other teams, but if they finish first, they win.   That's the game Paul was playing.  He was going by stats, how many comps he won, staying off the block, etc.   By TAR standards, he would win.  He crossed the finish line with Josh, but his stats were better.  He thought that if he had better stats than the other person in F2, he would win. 

But in BB (and Survivor)  you have to win comps, play well, AND make the people you  beat want to vote for you.  The balance between evicting other players and causing those same players to have a positive view of you, is a tough one.  A combination of being ruthless and being nice. 

Paul's strategy was more consistent with TAR - have alliances with everyone, use your competitors to get ahead, then climb over them to get to the finish. 

I'm not suggesting Paul go on TAR or survivor.  I don't need to see him on my tv again ,ever.  And he wouldn't end up doing well, because those shows would test his abilities in a way BB does not.  He's a bullshit artist, and people would see right through him. 

[green]

^  Yes and Josh could have beaten Paul in The Amazing Race too.  Just don't come in last in an elimination leg and win the final leg.  Paul could win ever leg in the race and still lose.  Boston Rob dominated his original season on TAR but guess what happened in the final leg, hah.  And he was dominating on TAR All Stars too until one of my favorite moments ever when he and Mirna went head-to-head in a roadblock. 

And I agree I do NOT want to see Paul or any BB people on The Amazing Race.  I haven't forgiven Les Mooves forcing the TAR producers to put Allison on Season 5 and there was another BB horror team on in a later season but I missed their BB season thank God.  Please, absolutely no more BB famewhores soiling up TAR.

Edited September 27, 2017 by green

[jumper sage]

6 hours ago, backformore said:

I'm not suggesting Paul go on TAR or survivor.  I don't need to see him on my tv again ,ever.  And he wouldn't end up doing well, because those shows would test his abilities in a way BB does not.  He's a bullshit artist, and people would see right through him. 

QUIET!  Don't even think of putting that out in the universe!  I can't see Paul and either of those shows.  I think he likes to be coddled in a house and will even rant if his favorite food is not in the storage room.

5 hours ago, green said:

And i agree I do NOT want to see Paul or any BB people on The Amazing Race.  I haven't forgiven Les Mooves forcing the TAR producers to put Allison on Season 5 and there was another horror BB but I missed their BB season thank God.  Please, absolutely no more BB famewhores soiling up TAR.

You.and.me.both.

[Jobiska]

14 hours ago, green said:

And i agree I do NOT want to see Paul or any BB people on The Amazing Race.  I haven't forgiven Les Mooves forcing the TAR producers to put Allison on Season 5 and there was another horror BB but I missed their BB season thank God.  Please, absolutely no more BB famewhores soiling up TAR.

There were three:  Allison and non-BB boyfriend; Jeff and Jordan; and Rachel and Brendan (sp?)--twice! 

I love TAR so much that if it takes having a BB person on it to have CBS want to keep it going, I'd suck it up and deal, but I'd hope it would NOT be Paul.  Bleah!  

[Eolivet]

18 hours ago, Jel said:

I think it's the very same here, and I put Dan and Russell and Paul in the same category

Dan is the only unanimous winner in U.S. Big Brother history. He won the game once and came in second a second time -- I believe he is the only person to make it to F2 on both occasions he played. His second-time game didn't work for him, but his first? He did better, vote-wise, than both Will and Derrick (the 6-3 winner, who has somehow become the GOAT for reasons I can't understand).

In fact, because Dan's first-time game worked so well for him -- a very good, nice social game with a secret alliance and a couple of big "game! moves!" that made fun TV -- he had to completely change his game around, or so he thought. No, it won him no friends. But he'd already won.

But if I'm ordering the hierarchy of Reality Dumbasses Who Thought Strategery Could Get Them The Win, I place Paul at the tippy top of that tree -- even ahead of Russell Hantz (and forgive me if someone else has made this argument). Because Russell Hantz went directly from Samoa to Heroes vs Villains, there was no way for him to watch his season. He left his first game assuming he'd won, so there was no reason to change up his second game. Paul literally had all year to watch his first game, to make adjustments, to play differently than he did last year. Instead, he claims he never watched his season. As others here have said: Paul ... you played yourself!

[backformore]

1 hour ago, Eolivet said:

. Instead, he claims he never watched his season. As others here have said: Paul ... you played yourself!

Does anyone believe that an ego-maniac like Paul would NOT watch every second of his first season?  I don't.  

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, backformore said:

Does anyone believe that an ego-maniac like Paul would NOT watch every second of his first season?  I don't.  

Based on Paul's ego?  Yeah, I have a hard time believing Paul didn't watch his own season.

Based on the rookie mistakes Paul made THIS season, though...?  Doesn't look like it - unless (as I suggested earlier) Paul FF'ed past any scene in which he wasn't included.

[llewis823]

15 hours ago, jumper sage said:

QUIET!  Don't even think of putting that out in the universe!  I can't see Paul and either of those shows.  I think he likes to be coddled in a house and will even rant if his favorite food is not in the storage room.

Oh, c'mon...wouldn't it be just a wee bit fun to see him squirming and being all flea-bitten and hungry if he went on Survivor?

[MisterBluxom]

4 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Based on Paul's ego?  Yeah, I have a hard time believing Paul didn't watch his own season.

Based on the rookie mistakes Paul made THIS season, though...?  Doesn't look like it - unless (as I suggested earlier) Paul FF'ed past any scene in which he wasn't included.

"Rookie mistakes" is a good way to describe the kinds of mistakes he made. But I think it might be more accurate to call them "foolish mistakes" because they are really not made only by rookies.

Anyone who has seen previous seasons should be able to figure out the kinds of mistakes that are indeed "foolish".  I would venture a guess the reason he made many of those mistakes was because he believed he was a very great player and a "know it all" who was always right and never wrong. IOW, he believed in his own infallibility and it caused him to make those kinds of mistakes that cost him the game.

IMO, he made those mistakes more due to stupidity then any lack of game experience. All in all, I just can't see the value of having returning players. It's a real dumb thing to do. It can hardly ever be fair.

The upcoming Celebrity edition promises to be a rather poor show. Most of them are because celebrities are more interested in their own sense of their ego. They don't really care very much about the other contestants. They are generally full of themselves. I'm really not looking forward to that season.

My strongest criticism of the show is the host. I wish they would get a new host. I been wishing that every season since the very first season. IMO, so many things make Julie a terrible host. I don't think she even watches the show. She just reads questions and comments that she is given. I really wish there was something else worth watching in the same timeslot. If there was, I wouldn't spend my time watching this show. But there are now many other shows that are well worth watching (e.g. Mr. Mercedes, Leah Remini, The Americans, Fargo, Better Call Saul, The Sinner, Room 104, The Deuce, Episodes, to name a few. I just hope this trend continues.

[Nashville]

@MissBluxom - Agree with all of that except for the host part.  I loves me some Chenbot.  :)

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, llewis823 said:

Oh, c'mon...wouldn't it be just a wee bit fun to see him squirming and being all flea-bitten and hungry if he went on Survivor?

Damn it!  Ok I will agree to Survivor only because he would crap his pants and want to rip that beard off with his bare hands.

7 hours ago, Jobiska said:

I love TAR so much that if it takes having a BB person on it to have CBS want to keep it going, I'd suck it up and deal,

Damn it!  Ok, damn it, ok.

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Based on Paul's ego?  Yeah, I have a hard time believing Paul didn't watch his own season.

Based on the rookie mistakes Paul made THIS season, though...?  Doesn't look like it - unless (as I suggested earlier) Paul FF'ed past any scene in which he wasn't included.

You always crack me up.  FF indeed.

[Nashville]

On 9/24/2017 at 1:22 PM, Tammee said:

Or survivor, and didn't learn to swim

...or build fire...

[watch2much]

On 9/24/2017 at 2:22 PM, Tammee said:

Or survivor, and didn't learn to swim

or build a fire.

[green]

14 hours ago, Jobiska said:

There were three:  Allison and non-BB boyfriend; Jeff and Jordan; and Rachel and Brendan (sp?)--twice! 

I love TAR so much that if it takes having a BB person on it to have CBS want to keep it going, I'd suck it up and deal, but I'd hope it would NOT be Paul.  Bleah!  

No no no no.  Paul would destroy TAR, not help it.  I've watched every episode of every season and I would refuse to watch a TAR season with Paul on it.  Period.

TAR is hanging by a thread right now so they can't afford to lose my viewership, dammit.  So NO Paul or I'm out.

[Nashville]

Is it wrong of me that I'm finding it exceptionally difficult to delete this episode from my DVR?

[MrHufflepuff]

It wouldn't surprise me if Paul didn't watch his season.  After all, it's a failure for him, and what narc wants to watch himself fail?  Plus, he seems like a rather fragile narc, and watching himself could shatter his narc bubble.   I mean, right now, he's claiming he didn't participate in the bullying, and there's tons of footage of him instigating the bullying.  It would take a really skilled narc to maintain one's delusions in the face of direct video evidence, and I don't think he's that skilled yet.  Give it a five or six decades.  He'll finally watch the show and be able to comfortably rewrite history to the weary LPN who has to check his blood pressure at the retirement home.

And, ugh.  Elena.  Is there anybody decent at all on this season?

Edited September 27, 2017 by MrHufflepuff

[innocuouspuff]

6 hours ago, MrHufflepuff said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Paul didn't watch his season.  After all, it's a failure for him, and what narc wants to watch himself fail? 

Yeah, I totally believe it. He apparently said something about not needing to relive the past by watching, which is not an unusual thing for some varieties of egomaniacs too imo. If it happened in the past, that's just as uninteresting as if it happened to someone else.

Also, he's not actually a BB fan, and it's a lot of eps to sit through.

This season 18 video of him telling Rob C he wouldn't change a thing cracks me up, it's okay to admit you might have messed up Paul: https://mobile.twitter.com/Teagan_Lad/status/910745145112502272

One thing that I always think about bitter juries, is that if you live with someone for 70+ days you should have gained an idea of what will motivate them come voting time! Paul just had no idea and didn't stop to think about it.

First and last post of the season! I've been lurking, thanks for entertaining me through this nonsense. :)

[Nashville]

But... but... but I LOVE Paul's tears.  They are salty and warm.

[The Companion]

On 9/26/2017 at 9:16 AM, Eolivet said:

Dan is the only unanimous winner in U.S. Big Brother history. He won the game once and came in second a second time -- I believe he is the only person to make it to F2 on both occasions he played. His second-time game didn't work for him, but his first? He did better, vote-wise, than both Will and Derrick (the 6-3 winner, who has somehow become the GOAT for reasons I can't understand).

In fact, because Dan's first-time game worked so well for him -- a very good, nice social game with a secret alliance and a couple of big "game! moves!" that made fun TV -- he had to completely change his game around, or so he thought. No, it won him no friends. But he'd already won.

But if I'm ordering the hierarchy of Reality Dumbasses Who Thought Strategery Could Get Them The Win, I place Paul at the tippy top of that tree -- even ahead of Russell Hantz (and forgive me if someone else has made this argument). Because Russell Hantz went directly from Samoa to Heroes vs Villains, there was no way for him to watch his season. He left his first game assuming he'd won, so there was no reason to change up his second game. Paul literally had all year to watch his first game, to make adjustments, to play differently than he did last year. Instead, he claims he never watched his season. As others here have said: Paul ... you played yourself!

I think Will impressed me most because he didn't get emotional about the game. Maybe I have forgotten something, but I don't recall him ever getting bent out of shape. He managed to get people to underestimate the threat by being such a big threat that everyone thought someone else would get him out. I still remember his you should vote me out speech. He is probably my favorite and would probably get my vote.

Derrick played a really good game as well, but he wasn't as entertaining. I found him harder to watch because the season was so boring.

That being said, I certainly don't think it is unreasonable to think Dan was the GOAT. His funeral was a brilliant move, and I respect the way he completely changed his game around and used perceptions about what he would do to protect him. How many times did he say, you saw me last year and you know how loyal I am.

The common thread, however, is that all three of these guys understood that they needed to do jury management. Paul just didn't get it. You have to make the person leaving feel like you either did it because of some secret hidden strategy or because they are just so awesome. You were too much of a threat or I really wanted to work with you but I had already made this other deal. Josh got this, and it was why he revealed that he was working with Paul and Christmas. He wasn't throwing Paul under the bus, he was making jury members feel better. It's not you, it's strategy.

[Jel]

I love your post, The Companion, but I disagree that Dan managed the jury at all. he just tended to cut and run, make deals and reneg on them, etc, which left people bitter. Paul did the same thing -- made promises he had no intention of keeping, and assumed that people would be okay with that because "the game".  Paul should have watched more Big Brother -- he's got a similar style of play to Dan's and he could have taken a few pointers on where Dan went wrong in season 14 with his bitter jury.  He had the opportunity to educate himself and chose not to. Live and learn, man.

[HurricaneVal]

On 9/26/2017 at 8:58 AM, backformore said:

Does anyone believe that an ego-maniac like Paul would NOT watch every second of his first season?  I don't.

I believe he watched and obsessed every second of footage of himself.  I do not believe he watched any scenes where he was absent, which means he missed all the other houseguests strategizing, the viewing of the goodbye messages, and what happens in the jury house.  When they played Josh's revealing goodbye messages one after the other (and just how awesome was that?), Paul looked like he had no clue that the goodbye messages were actually shown to the exiting houseguest.  I think he thought they were used as footnotes on a guests departure for filler on the broadcast show. 

[Rachel RSL]

I'm pretty sure Paul knew that the evicted houseguests saw the goodbye messages, that's why he kept lying in his own messages. He was still trying to play the game and I don't think it ever occurred to him that another houseguest might use their own goodbye messages to tell the truth. (Which is exactly what Paul should have done. The jury tends to respect/forgive players more when they own their game.)

[Wings]

This will add to the picture for Paul if he cares to see it.  B and B for Jess, AFP for Cody and now TAR for both.  Viewers didn't like you, Paul.  

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/amazing-race-big-brothers-jessica-graf-cody-nickson-joining-1043557

[Rachel RSL]

Ugh! That is the WORST. Do people forget that Jessica and Cody were basically awful people? They only look good in comparison to Paul. I hate that they're getting rewarded for their asshole behavior just because there was a bigger asshole on the show.

[green]

32 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Ugh! That is the WORST. Do people forget that Jessica and Cody were basically awful people? They only look good in comparison to Paul. I hate that they're getting rewarded for their asshole behavior just because there was a bigger asshole on the show.

That is freaking horrible news.  I will not watch TAR again and it used to be my favorite show. 

Both of these people are indeed awful and, had they controlled the house instead of being such totally lousy players, would have been as despised as Paul.  And Cody is a total bigot besides.  I hate Ugly Americans on TAR and he is the poster boy for that title.  Isn't America being embarrassed on the world stage enough these days without adding to it?

[Jobiska]

I'm amused that article totally failed to list Allison as a prior crossover.

[queenbee9b]

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

Ugh! That is the WORST. Do people forget that Jessica and Cody were basically awful people? They only look good in comparison to Paul. I hate that they're getting rewarded for their asshole behavior just because there was a bigger asshole on the show.

Jessica and Cody definitely benefited from how annoying others in the house became. I have a friend I text with and I was away from June 25th until after July 4th.  So I watched the first couple of episodes and then skipped a bunch because I figured i would catch up with just the new ones after a while (since in 2 week you miss 6 episodes and I was never going to be back on scheduled at that rate).  But the first few episodes I watched I hated Cody -- he only wanted to be an alliance with other cool/hot people.  He was so mean and just said to people I put you up because I don't like you, etc.   I was texting her, I hate him and I hope he leaves.  By the time he came back from the battleback and I was all team Jody.  I still don't like them, but I'll take them over Matt/Raven any day of the week or Paul/Christmas.  In fact the first few episodes I was super into Alex. I thought she was a strong player and appeared to have good strategy. I think that is why I was so disappointed when it turned out my opinion on that was very wrong. Also, I really can't stand Paul and just his speaking voice -- it might be irrational, but that is also why I gave up in the middle of last season so I am definitely biased (but isn't that half the fun of watching BB?) 

[ProfCrash]

I can't wait to see Jess and Cody on the Amazing Race. I think they will handle the pressure just fine. 

[Gemma Violet]

15 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I can't wait to see Jess and Cody on the Amazing Race. I think they will handle the pressure just fine. 

Me, too!  I didn't like either one of them in the beginning, but as time went on, I grew to like both of them.  And Cody's pretty easy on the eyes.  I haven't watched TAR in years, but I'm watching this time.

[Nashville]

8 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Me, too!  I didn't like either one of them in the beginning, but as time went on, I grew to like both of them.  And Cody's pretty easy on the eyes.  I haven't watched TAR in years, but I'm watching this time.

I think Cody will interact with total strangers much better than he will with people he's known long enough to earn his contempt.

[ProfCrash]

I think Cody said some shitty things and shares some different political views then I do but that does not make him a crappy person. That same dude who made the comments about Transgender folks reached out to a kid with Downs Syndrome and was very cool with his comment. That same Cody went to Josh, in private, and apologized for his behavior. No one made him do that, he owned up to his mistake. That same Cody managed to maintain his cool when he was been harassed for days on end and people were making comments about his daughter and military service.

I hold out hope that spending time around Jessica's group of friends, who are very different then the people he grew up with and served with, will open Cody's eyes to a different perspective. At the minimum, I think it will change his language a bit. But I am not going to write someone off because they have different political and social beliefs then I do.

I suspect that Cody will be fine on the race. I suspect that he will have his moments and Jessica will reel him back in. I thought that they were pretty mature in how they handled their fights in the house. They were honest with each other and Cody had no problem saying that he didn't understand what he needed to do. I actually thought that Cody was more mature in those conversations then Jessica was.

And here is the thing, Cody has been called out for his crappy remarks. I don't like his response but I prefer that he is honest and not lying about how he feels. I am not going to be too worried that he followed the normal "Let's get the Alpha Men" together at the beginning of the game. That alliance always happens. It is annoying but it is fun to watch it crash and burn.

Cody is an interesting character to me. I look forward to seeing how he does on the Race.

[Michichick]

On 9/27/2017 at 4:19 AM, Nashville said:

Is it wrong of me that I'm finding it exceptionally difficult to delete this episode from my DVR?

IT'S NOT WRONG. I haven't deleted it, either, and usually I'm quick to delete things after I watch. I love it so much, I may keep it forever. I'm going to hug it and squeeze it and call it George.

[Rachel RSL]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

That same dude who made the comments about Transgender folks reached out to a kid with Downs Syndrome and was very cool with his comment.

One doesn't justify the other. Just because he was nice to a kid with DS doesn't excuse his other behaviour. He was nice to a kid, that's good, but if that same kid was transgender, it would have been a whole lot different. Everybody is obviously allowed to have their own opinions, my personal opinion is that doing something good doesn't automatically make up for being a vile douchebag in other aspects.  But I guess I should really take this to the Cody thread. 

Bottom line, I was hoping that once the finale was done, I wouldn't have to see any of these people again. Stupid CBS. Stop infecting my TAR with your BB germs!

[LoneHaranguer]

20 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I'm pretty sure Paul knew that the evicted houseguests saw the goodbye messages, that's why he kept lying in his own messages. He was still trying to play the game and I don't think it ever occurred to him that another houseguest might use their own goodbye messages to tell the truth. (Which is exactly what Paul should have done. The jury tends to respect/forgive players more when they own their game.)

You do have to be careful what you say in a goodbye message since you don't know if the HG will be coming back. Paul thought it was easier to lie than deal with figuring out how much truth to tell or how to frame it.

[backformore]

I do cut Cody some slack on the transgender issue.  

  Many guys have been told misinformation about the transgender community.  It's the old trope that you pick up a woman at a club, and just when things start to get physical, you discover she's a man.  This feeds into a homophobic,  sudden thought of "I was just kissing a guy - I must be gay!"  

  Though it's misguided, it's not uncommon. with education about what it means to be transgender, this has become less the norm.  Widespread acceptance of transgender individuals still has a long way to go, with groups boycotting and targeting establishments who hire transgender people, or let them use the restroom of their choice.  There's the other belief that transgender women are "guys in dresses"  who are trying to victimize young girls in bathrooms.  As long as we have political and religious leaders who spout these beliefs, we will have guys like Cody who cling to the thought that "trannies"  are evil.   He's a product of his upbringing and environment.  Hopefully he'll grow over time, and be more accepting of others. 

[GeorgiaRai]

20 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Ugh! That is the WORST. Do people forget that Jessica and Cody were basically awful people? They only look good in comparison to Paul. I hate that they're getting rewarded for their asshole behavior just because there was a bigger asshole on the show.

I agree, and am disappointed they'll be on TAR.  OTOH, I look forward to seeing whether they prove their fans correct or those of us who think they're horrible.  If they can make it through a few rounds of the Race and show that they generally treat people (even unattractive ones) with kindness and respect, great; I believe in second chances. If they show themselves to be anything like the people they portrayed on BB... I'm ok with that too.

[Jel]

Honestly, I think the broader issue here is that the way to handle people who are any kind of -ist or -phobic is with the same level of understanding and compassion that you want them to show the people they are discriminating against.  If, after some education (respectful , not shame-based) they still choose to think that way, then they are on their own. But to simply and immediately write someone off because of some ignorant views and ignorant comments truly won't serve the ultimate goal, imo. I really liked Audrey's comments on the subject.

[ProfCrash]

27 minutes ago, backformore said:

Many guys have been told misinformation about the transgender community.  It's the old trope that you pick up a woman at a club, and just when things start to get physical, you discover she's a man.  This feeds into a homophobic,  sudden thought of "I was just kissing a guy - I must be gay!"  

  Though it's misguided, it's not uncommon. with education about what it means to be transgender, this has become less the norm.  Widespread acceptance of transgender individuals still has a long way to go, with groups boycotting and targeting establishments who hire transgender people, or let them use the restroom of their choice.  There's the other belief that transgender women are "guys in dresses"  who are trying to victimize young girls in bathrooms.  As long as we have political and religious leaders who spout these beliefs, we will have guys like Cody who cling to the thought that "trannies"  are evil.   He's a product of his upbringing and environment.  Hopefully he'll grow over time, and be more accepting of others. 

That is the attitude of lots of the men that I work with. I correct them and enter into the conversation with them but they are stuck on this idea that Transgender people are a threat. Here is the thing. I know that they are wrong and I do not like what they are saying. I stop the jokes and challenge the stereotype but I know that they are, on the whole, good people. They are grossly misinformed on this issue but they are not going out of their way to hurt people. I asked someone why it is that they jump to transgender/homophobic jokes when they are in the middle of their BS sessions and the response was "We are all Alpha men and it is a game of one upmanship."

As annoying as it is, as wrong as it is, the language and attitude is common in many segments of American society. Those who know differently challenge that notion and those beliefs. But I have learned not to write people off because they are misguided on this topic. The best way to deal with it is to challenge their beliefs and expose more people to regular folks who are Transgender or Gay. Normally positive interactions will change peoples ideas. But I cannot force my acceptance down their throat and I cannot deny that they treat people well in the interactions that I see or that they are good to their families.

So I won't write off Cody. He has crap ideas regarding Transgender people but he has shown to have a good heart in other areas. He is not a complete jack ass. He is someone who sees himself as an Alpha who has to prove himself as an Alpha. Hopefully he will out grow that but who knows. He is blunt and needs to learn to think before he speaks. He can be caustic. But he is also in control of his responses. He has passion, see Jessica and his daughter. Reports have it that he does not slam his daughters Mother.

(shrugs) I'll stop posting on this. I am hoping that Cody will learn to be more tolerant and I hop to see that growth on the Amazing Race. It is very possible that he will be an asshole but I have my fingers crossed that he is growing up a bit and that he will turn out to be a good dude.

[GeorgiaRai]

I don't mean this disrespectfully, but...I'm a white grandma living in Georgia.  I can't imagine anyone in any social circles that I interact with that doesn't have a basic understanding of transgender issues.  There will always be those who speak disrespectfully and/or judgmentally, but not, IMO, because they don't know any better in this day and age.

That said, I was fully & firmly off the Jodica Train before hearing those particular comments.  I found them both to be very lacking in tolerance, much less kindness, almost from Day 1 in the house. 

I see TAR as a chance for them to show their true selves - it just remains to be seen whether that is for better or for worse. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by GeorgiaRai

[gunderda]

On 9/26/2017 at 2:19 PM, MissBluxom said:

I would venture a guess the reason he made many of those mistakes was because he believed he was a very great player and a "know it all" who was always right and never wrong. IOW, he believed in his own infallibility and it caused him to make those kinds of mistakes that cost him the game.

I think he's a paranoid know-it-all.  He was FOR SURE paranoid that entire game thinking that people were coming after him when it was completely obvious they were not. Hence why i think he played that card all the the way to the end.  

17 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I can't wait to see Jess and Cody on the Amazing Race. I think they will handle the pressure just fine. 

I actually think their relationship might implode on the show...... 

[Tammee]

On 9/26/2017 at 4:46 PM, watch2much said:

or build a fire.

Wow puzzle-itis just gave me a BIG clapback hah.  Every year on the challenge they have this at least once. I dont know what its called but its in a square and you slide tiles up and down, left and right to spell out a saying. Theres also 1 blank spot with no tile, for moving around.  You cant lift them or anything..does anyone know the secret to cracking this puzzle?

[simplyme]

@Tammee You mean a slide puzzle? You want to focus on getting the pieces in order in the top row first. Then do the next row down. Then the next, and so on.

Edited September 28, 2017 by simplyme

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, Tammee said:

Wow puzzle-itis just gave me a BIG clapback hah.  Every year on the challenge they have this at least once. I dont know what its called but its in a square and you slide tiles up and down, left and right to spell out a saying. Theres also 1 blank spot with no tile, for moving around.  You cant lift them or anything..does anyone know the secret to cracking this puzzle?

....Kinda.  By which I mean I can kick ass on those kind of slide puzzles - always have been able to - but I can't necessarily vocalize how.  :)

[slasherboy]

On 9/27/2017 at 3:51 AM, MrHufflepuff said:

And, ugh.  Elena.  Is there anybody decent at all on this season?

I've read that Elena said some awful things but I don't know what she said.  Could someone please enlighten me?  I don't follow any of these creatures on social media.  Thank you!

[ProfCrash]

12 hours ago, Nashville said:

....Kinda.  By which I mean I can kick ass on those kind of slide puzzles - always have been able to - but I can't necessarily vocalize how.  :)

There are you tube videos on how to beat them. Survivor contestants or wanna be's should be watching them because there is a trick to beating them.

9 hours ago, slasherboy said:

I've read that Elena said some awful things but I don't know what she said.  Could someone please enlighten me?  I don't follow any of these creatures on social media.  Thank you!

If you go to the social media thread at Survivor Sucks you can see some of her past tweets. They are pretty bad. She made statements that can be seen as racist at worst, at best they are intolerant and misguided.

[Lamb18]

22 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Reports have it that he does not slam his daughters Mother

I heard Cody speak very respectfully of his daughter's mother on the feeds. He thinks highly of her and said he wishes she could find someone good and deserves a good husband. He wants the best for her.

[Tammee]

21 hours ago, Nashville said:

....Kinda.  By which I mean I can kick ass on those kind of slide puzzles - always have been able to - but I can't necessarily vocalize how.  :)

Well that's a lot of help now isn't it (kidding :))

On 9/28/2017 at 1:11 PM, simplyme said:

@Tammee You mean a slide puzzle? You want to focus on getting the pieces in order in the top row first. Then do the next row down. Then the next, and so on.

Yes a slide puzzle.  Ok ill remember that order.  Thanks for the tip

[MrHufflepuff]

19 hours ago, slasherboy said:

I've read that Elena said some awful things but I don't know what she said.  Could someone please enlighten me?  I don't follow any of these creatures on social media.  Thank you!

The sucks thread @ProfCrash mentioned is a good place to start.  There's also #ElenaExposedParty on twitter and there's some discussion in the Live Feed thread.

[backformore]

23 hours ago, slasherboy said:

I've read that Elena said some awful things but I don't know what she said.  Could someone please enlighten me?  I don't follow any of these creatures on social media.  Thank you!

@https://mobile.twitter.com/KobeTheGoat99/status/912390859408248832