Season 1 Discussion

[seacliffsal]

Paul is beyond controlling.  Before they had their "talk" it was mentioned that his cell phone had already been stolen and they only had Karine's to use.  They were passing it between them during his confession to her.  When he got up to run away, he still had her phone.  Then, after she chased him and tried to get him to go back with her and he refused, she said she hated him and tried to take her phone back (it had been going back and forth between them during the scene) and he wouldn't let her have it, until she finally forced it out of his hands.  So, he wanted to control the whole conversation, have her chase after him and then keep her phone at the end of it all.  Some posters have commented that he's not bright enough to force the manipulation, but I think he is similar to Danielle in that they are much more manipulative than they let on-and they both have tried to blame the victim role (Paul kept saying he had been burned by his ex-girlfriends; not that he had committed various criminal acts that may have led those ex-girlfriends to try to get away or keep him away from them).

Antonio needs to just tell Cortney that she can't stay at his apartment any more and that he has a 3 week modeling gig coming up.  She is demonstrating way too much entitlement in this non-existent relationship.

[gavinmac]

5 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

That's what I think, too. Poor thing!

TLC producers wouldn't be that disingenuous.

Also, I think you hear the bad guy calling her "puta," which means the same thing in Brazilian as it does in Spanish.

It would not be unusual for a pretty young Latina in skimpy clothes hanging out with a white guy to be called that by a local male.

If the whole thing were faked I don't think TLC would have scripted that insult.

[Cherrio]

I detest Jesse from the first episode.

He has no right requesting not another drink just because he has a past with it. If his mother is a drunk then deal with her and deal with your own problems stemming from it.   Or, only get involved with people who abstain 365 days a year.

 He is extremely controlling and Darcy is right, it is his way or no way.

Heck, his step father is an ugly obnoxious person without drinking, what is your solution for that Jesse?

 It wasn't enough that Darcy agreed to his demand, he MADE her say it again when they were hugging.  That was a really creepy moment. When she didn't answer, he moves her face to look at him and answer yes again.

I think his personality is scary and is a lot worse than any behavior Darcy has shown.

[gavinmac]

1 hour ago, AmyBre said:

Check out this "documentary" by Lisa Ling on Americans looking for love in other countries.   Lisa worked with Oprah so obviously there was a lot of money, thought and planning put into this episode.  

The documentary film "Seeking Asian Female" is excellent. It's about an old white American dude importing a mail order bride from China. It's kind of like a 90 minute episode of 90DF, all dedicated to one f'ed up couple.  I highly recommend it to anyone who needs a mid-week fix.

13 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

I feel bad for Abby. She's a young woman with no options but an American sugar daddy. I wish someone would offer her an education so she could find opportunity outside of Haiti.

She has the option of going straight and committing fully to whatever older American dude she meets online and not insisting on keeping in touch with prior lovers or customers or whatever Chris is.

[Former Nun]

37 minutes ago, Dobian said:

"Drink responsibly" would have been the better initial message.

The better message for you...and many others.  Obviously, not for him.  We don't know if she had levels of intoxication on their "long" online romance.  ALSO...she was under no obligation to make that promise, yet she did.

[Kath94]

15 hours ago, Morgalisa said:

"If" Abby is a sex worker, it has not beaten her down. She still looks very fresh faced and attractive.  I know shes very young, but that is a hard life and puts a lot of mileage on a vagina and on a face. Just sayin.

 

13 hours ago, AussieBabe said:

Abby and the two old dudes. Chris skeeves me TF out. You met her in a known sex industry hot spot. I don't believe she's 20. How old was she when they met? She's one of those that I class under good enough to smash but not good enough to take home to mummy or put a ring on it. Chris will never commit to her, but she's head over heels in love with him. I felt bad for Sean because it has to suck when you get your heartbroken, and you're dealing with someone like Abby who has not a care in the world about crushing you. Don't propose to her. Just go home and heal. That bird isn't worth it. Abby deserves that creepy dude who was implying things that made me feel like I had scabies. The way he kept asking about the cameras and microphones. Eww.

 

13 hours ago, RichiesOlderBro said:

Abby is not using Sean to make Chris jealous.  Abby already knows that Chris loves her, but will never marry her.  Chris knows a marriage would never work.

Everyone seems to hate Chris, but he seems like the only adult out of the 3.  He is the only one getting what he wants.  I'm sure he only came to Haiti to help out Abby with getting her green card. 

 

6 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

Chris may be curious about who the other guy is. When he pretended not to know who "my Seanie" was when Abby mentioned him -- that was affectation for the cameras for Sean to watch and "enjoy" later. Chris is not without his sense of humor.

Again, Chris can be the way he is because he has the least invested emotionally. Also, he's smarter than the two of them put together.

I get that we're supposed to be calling Dr. Chris a big sleazoid and whatnot, but the dude's got game. Abby is completely enamored with him. It's a little unusual, and I doubt she would feel the same way when he's 85, but if she's genuinely attracted to him, then I really don't have a problem with it.

 

6 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I have no problem with people with a huge age gap having sex if it is consensual and enjoyed by both parties. That's the exception to the rule but it seems to be the case between Abby and Chris. 

Chris is not a decrepit Hugh Hefner handing disgusted women their $1000 every morning to live with them. And, he seems to want to help her get a green card. He was very civilized.

Chris might have even been willing to be hands off once Abby got married, but Sean needed to be prepared to handle her texting him and talking with him on the phone. It certainly would still have been a full blown emotional affair if nothing else. 

 

3 hours ago, AmyBre said:

I still believe that Abby is a soft hooker.  Others have already commented on the part of the Dominican Republic where she met Chris.  That is known not only as a sex workers spot, but also one of the highest places for HIV and STDs in the world.   You don't see hardness in Abby's eyes because she's 20 and have probably only been in the track for 2 to 4 years and perhaps occasionally.    Give her two more years and you'll see a seasoned whore probably hooked on drugs or alcohol and with very poor health.

 

2 hours ago, AmyBre said:

Sean could have spent a quarter of that money and stay in a nice resort in Puerto Plata where he would have met Abby or 20 like her.  For $100 bucks she would have spent the night with him.  For $500, she would have spent the entire two-week period and "service" him on a regular basis.

But when we see Sean crying on camera, crying for the love of his life, after we hear Abby defending Chris, we realize what a capital L Loser Sean is and that he is doomed.   The worst of this is that he is so infatuated bacause a young girl is in love with him and this had never happened in his hicktown.....much less a girl of color.  He has low self esteem and a very low sense of worth of himself (two separate things).   Abby and Chris met later that night, had drink and dinner and then wild sex and laughed at Sean-ny.   Even as hungry and poor as Abby is, I saw a look in her face last night that screamed "what am I doing with this ass#@le?".    The minute a woman thinks that of a suitor, there is no way he is making it back in.   She might let him take her to dinner and buy her things, keep her entertained, but she won't give herself to him or trust him.    I also think that there is no physical chemistry (as in good sweaty sex) between Abby and Sean and that by the body language of Abby in the taxi, Chris hits the spot.  Over and over.

The only reason Chris agreed to meet Sean was so that he could laugh hard when he was intimate with Abby later on.   A guy like that does not travel into Haiti to meet a suitor of his girl.   The producers probably paid his ticket and his transportation into Haiti and hotel.   Remember that he is used to meeting Abby in the Dominican Republic.

 

1 hour ago, AmyBre said:

It's the sad truth about whores and hustlers and drug dealers everywhere.  Under the right guidance or under different circumstances, they will develop to be productive and successful people, but somewhere along their route, they took a shortcut to what they thought was the easy life and now they are stuck on it.   I agree that Abby is smart and can probably have a great life if she goes straight.  She's very street smart.

She needs moral and spiritual smarts, which she completely lacks and she needs formal education smarts, which she hasn't shown much aside from selling panties.

I sincerely hope she finds a way out of that hard and sad life of prostitution.

Okay, here's my take on it.  Chris is a "regular" to the DR, having had his pick of paid-for flings.  He found a jewel in Abby, convinced her to give up the "business," go to school, and find a way out.  Remember when she said that Chris "teaches (her) things?"  Chris is instructing Abby on not how to survive from day to day but to have a long-term plan.  Get an education, find a (relatively) wealthy American and get to the USA where you can make something of yourself.  I feel that Abby is very grateful to Chris, loves him in a way, and knows that she will continue to "pay him back" for his "education," but that her best move is to marry an American.

[Former Nun]

18 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

My parents sometimes went to parties and drank when I was little. They weren't alcoholics and I turned out just fine.

My children's father was drunk EVERY DAY for over thirty years.  He claimed he wasn't an alcoholic because he "never missed a day of work."  He was a doctor-turned-stockbroker.   He died of advanced dementia, preceded by alcoholic dementia.  So it wasn't just going to parties and drinking.  My children were embarrassed too many times when they had their court-ordered weekend visits.

[ava111]

16 hours ago, Bibi said:

She's the one who  wanted to have sex with him so desperately.

That's not the point. He only didn't sleep with her the moment they got to the hotel because he wanted her to get tested for pregnancy and STD. He would not tell her before they got to hotel, before she got the tests, before he had sex with her for the first time. And they since had weeks together till this moment and he still didn't tell her. Only when his time in Brazil is coming to the end he decides to mention it. After he had his fun with her. Such a scumbag. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by ava111
Spelling

[Dobian]

17 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

The better message for you...and many others.  Obviously, not for him.  We don't know if she had levels of intoxication on their "long" online romance.  ALSO...she was under no obligation to make that promise, yet she did.

She's weak-willed and desperate, that much is obvious.  Doesn't excuse his ultimatum though.  This relationship is doomed to fail.  If he really does come back to the states with her, her daughters will pick up on the control freak stuff soon enough and there will be conflict.

[Drogo]

I have to disagree that Jesse's out of line insisting Darcy abstain from alcohol if she wants to continue in their relationship.  Darcy needs alcohol to deal with stressful situations, and while it may or may not be alcoholism it is a drinking problem.  We're all allowed to have our dealbreakers in relationships, and he wouldn't be the first person for whom "a drinking problem" was a dealbreaker.  

[Sprockets]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

 

I find the fact that Abby has Scabies absolutely disgusting. What is wrong with either one of these men that they have no problem wanting to touch her?  That shit is infectious. 

 

I'm not convinced that is her actual diagnosis, or even that the "rash" is not a made up plot point.  My understanding of scabies is that, if you have it, you are going to be so miserable that you can't do much except scratch.  

[suzeecat]

Promise not to roll your eyes if this was obvious to you long ago, but I'm thinking this show has it's own unique title ("Before the 90 Days"), and none of these couples appear to be featured on the upcoming standard 90 Day Fiance season because these are all couples who they started filming for the original but who did NOT end up getting married - yet the stories were too good to NOT use (thank you for that!). 

Also about the new regular season starting up next week, all the couples EXCEPT whatshername (Nicole?) and Azan are brand new.  Again, their story was too good to NOT use, but they didn't have enough couples worth featuring on another "After the 90 Days" season?

Whenever I see the name "Karine" I think it is pronounced "Car-Een".  Is "Car-Eenee" the local pronunciation or Paul's butchering?  Paul is just disgusting, but not as disgusting as I originally thought.  I thought his secret was going to be that HE is the one with an incurable STD.  Did Car-Eenee ask Paul to get tested when she did?  I lost track of their phones - I thought they each had a phone because Paul mentioned that it was OK for Car-Eenee to have hers out but not for him, the gringo.  Then, she runs after him and demands HIS phone.  Next, the mugger takes a phone away from Car-Eenee, but which phone was it?  Isn't there still another phone somewhere?

If Sean goes ahead with marrying Abby, he deserves everything he gets, scabies and all. 

[ava111]

16 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Karine doesn’t give a shit about Paul’s criminal past.  Why did he run off like a little brat?  

To be a drama queen? So he can say five years from now that he run away from her after he told her because he is a bad guy and he wanted to save her from him. But she came back to him and wanted to be with him anyway. That it was her decision to stay together after he told her he is criminal. That it was all her fault that he is being a controlling and abusive husband because it was her decision to stay with a criminal. He run because he knew she will go after him because she is a decent person and wouldn't want him to get in trouble. She didn't want him to get hurt or to hurt himself. He knew all that.

[DragonFlyzz]

13 hours ago, MrHufflepuff said:

Maybe you'll stop getting burnt if you stop setting things on fire?

OMG.  That didn't just make me laugh it made me wheeze.

[Sprockets]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

While I appreciate that he has some family history of dealing with alcoholism, it really wasn't his place to be dropping such a heavy restriction on her based on one night at a bar.  "Drink responsibly" would have been the better initial message

I thought his demand was absurd.  Due to my history I cannot be around anyone who is a regular or heavy drinker, because it dredges up traumatic memories.  If Jesse feels the same way, then he should be setting his own boundaries and not trying to control her actions.  Ultimatums are not cool.  

[chickenella]

11 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

And then I remembered that Darcey was a belligerent drunken asshole who cried, mocked Jesse, and then ran off into the night, ignoring his phone calls and him yelling for her in the dark, surely disturbing the neighbors. Embarrassing.

 

12 hours ago, Bibi said:

There's a difference between an occasional glass of wine and running through the bushes in the middle of the night.

Exactly. I don't know how often Darcy drinks to excess, but would you want to put up with that drama perhaps every weekend? Or a night or 2 a week? Even once a month is too much. Been there, done that. There's nothing like waiting for your loved one to come home, they're late, no phone call, you wondering what is up-if they're ok, and then they show up late and drunk. Or they call and need cab money to get home, or even worse, bail money. Any plans you had are now cancelled and you're stuck putting this person to bed and/or dealing with whatever drunken crap they feel like bitching about til they finally pass out. Then you spend the rest of the night bored and waiting to try to talk some sense into the sobered up loved one the next day. Not fun.

[Cherrio]

6 minutes ago, Drogo said:

I have to disagree that Jesse's out of line insisting Darcy abstain from alcohol if she wants to continue in their relationship.  Darcy needs alcohol to deal with stressful situations, and while it may or may not be alcoholism it is a drinking problem.  We're all allowed to have our dealbreakers in relationships, and he wouldn't be the first person for whom "a drinking problem" was a dealbreaker.  

I don't think I would label it a drinking problem if we have only seen her do it once.

Also, as a poster mentioned above, Jesse having ANY contact with her daughters is a terrible idea. Especially if their mother is going to pathetically agree and whimper yes every time he makes a demand.  

[poeticlicensed]

2 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

I thought his demand was absurd.  Due to my history I cannot be around anyone who is a regular or heavy drinker, because it dredges up traumatic memories.  If Jesse feels the same way, then he should be setting his own boundaries and not trying to control her actions.  Ultimatums are not cool.

Were Jesse's parents drinking when they met Darcy? I could have sworn I saw wine glasses. 

[Sprockets]

8 minutes ago, ava111 said:

Karine doesn’t give a shit about Paul’s criminal past.  Why did he run off like a little brat?  

Because he overwhelmed himself with the supposed enormity of what he had told her.  He freaked out before she could - even though she wasn't going to.  He was a dog getting offended by the smell of its own farts.  He has all the hallmarks of serious mental illness, the kind that makes Danielle seem like an ordinary, pleasant goofball.  

[gavinmac]

36 minutes ago, ava111 said:

That's not the point. He only didn't sleep with her the moment they got to the hotel because he wanted her to get tested for pregnancy and STD. He would not tell her before they got to hotel, before she got the tests, before he had sex with her for the first time. And they since had weeks together till this moment and he still didn't tell her. Only when his time in Brazil is coming to the end he decides to mention it. After he had his fun with her. Such a scumbag. 

If Paul had told Karine he was an arsonist during their online chatting she might have lost interest. 

 

But after he has flown to Brazil to meet her, and her whole village has seen her go shack up with him at a hotel, she can't break off the relationship, because the shame of her not marrying the white guy then would be too great, everyone would think he rejected her.

[Baltimore Betty]

Darcy is so convinced that her soul mate is Jesse and she would agree to do anything he asks such as giving up her wine...she will lose her identity because she is really desperate to have a man in her life.  I see it affecting her relationship with her daughters in the future as well as Jesse realizing the power he has over her.

Paul did not let Karine even react and digest what he shared with her, I bet he has done this info dump and run on other women, he runs so they don't have to.  He is still gross even if he was "normal."  I bet Karine will marry him and get the heck out of the Amazon.

Sean has got to realize that there are a lot of Abby's out there, why would you start our your relationship with doubt and stress, save that for after your vows, lol! 

The desperation of all of these couples is tragic.

[wovenloaf]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

Paul is beyond controlling.  Before they had their "talk" it was mentioned that his cell phone had already been stolen and they only had Karine's to use.  They were passing it between them during his confession to her.  When he got up to run away, he still had her phone.  Then, after she chased him and tried to get him to go back with her and he refused, she said she hated him and tried to take her phone back (it had been going back and forth between them during the scene) and he wouldn't let her have it, until she finally forced it out of his hands.  So, he wanted to control the whole conversation, have her chase after him and then keep her phone at the end of it all.  Some posters have commented that he's not bright enough to force the manipulation, but I think he is similar to Danielle in that they are much more manipulative than they let on-and they both have tried to blame the victim role (Paul kept saying he had been burned by his ex-girlfriends; not that he had committed various criminal acts that may have led those ex-girlfriends to try to get away or keep him away from them).

 

No, I think they were just talking about how he shouldn't have it out because it might get stolen.  It was attached to one of those hip clips, and it seemed like Karine was telling him to put it away and/or cover it with his shirt.  Then he said something like "oh, because I'm a gringo."  They were passing one phone back and forth later because they were using the translator app.  But I think they both had their phones until Karine's got stolen by machete guy, and the one Paul ran off with was his. 

[Sprockets]

40 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

43 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

 

Were Jesse's parents drinking when they met Darcy? I could have sworn I saw wine glasses. 

I think they were drinking.  All we know at this time is Jesse is claiming to be triggered by other people drinking.  We don't know if it's true, but I'll take his word for it.  If he needs to not be around drinking, then he should alter his behavior to take care of himself.  Requiring others to change their behavior for his comfort is dysfunctional.  He keeps coming off as a rigid, controlling buzzkill.  

[poeticlicensed]

I am hoping Paul's cell phone gets stolen also because I would love to see him try to get home without ye olde translator app.  

[Sprockets]

3 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

 

I am hoping Paul's cell phone gets stolen also because I would love to see him try to get home without ye olde translator app

 

He needs the translator app for Karine.  He needs subtitles for the rest of the world to understand him.  So hopefully even if he loses his phone he can keep his subtitles!  

[gonecrackers]

Paul should walk around with subtitles for his speech flashing on his shirt.

[guilfoyleatpp]

1 hour ago, Cherrio said:

I detest Jesse from the first episode.

He has no right requesting not another drink just because he has a past with it. If his mother is a drunk then deal with her and deal with your own problems stemming from it.   Or, only get involved with people who abstain 365 days a year.

 He is extremely controlling and Darcy is right, it is his way or no way.

Heck, his step father is an ugly obnoxious person without drinking, what is your solution for that Jesse?

 It wasn't enough that Darcy agreed to his demand, he MADE her say it again when they were hugging.  That was a really creepy moment. When she didn't answer, he moves her face to look at him and answer yes again.

I think his personality is scary and is a lot worse than any behavior Darcy has shown.

 

1 hour ago, Former Nun said:

My children's father was drunk EVERY DAY for over thirty years.  He claimed he wasn't an alcoholic because he "never missed a day of work."  He was a doctor-turned-stockbroker.   He died of advanced dementia, preceded by alcoholic dementia.  So it wasn't just going to parties and drinking.  My children were embarrassed too many times when they had their court-ordered weekend visits.

@Former Nun, I'm so sorry that you and your children had to deal with that. Hugs.

@Cherrio, I agree with you that Jesse was creepy and controlling in the way he demanded it. 

When one has had a experience with alcoholics and their antics, one of the red flags (episode title!) is major behavior change when the person drinks too much. Someone who is usually jovial becomes nasty. Someone usually calm becomes violent. Darcey morphing from needy, "please love me" to sarcastic mocking and hiding in the dark (LIKE WTF?!) not responding to repeated attempts to contact her, is a sign of a problem. 

When I was Jesse's age I probably would have blown it off as a one off. But it appears Jesse has a pretty good amount of experience with alcoholics and perhaps that is why he is so rigid and controlling in other areas. He can't control Darcey's drinking, but he seems to be young enough to think he can, at least in that moment. Maybe he is trying to resolve his relationship with his mother. Freud would eat this up with a spoon.

 

P.S. He won't be able to control Darcey, just like he couldn't control his mom (or whoever the alcoholic was). You can't control other people, especially not those with addictions. 

[shockermolar]

2 hours ago, gavinmac said:

Also, I think you hear the bad guy calling her "puta," which means the same thing in Brazilian as it does in Spanish.

It doesn't, and also there is no such language as Brazilian. The language is Portuguese.

[shockermolar]

Quote

My children's father was drunk EVERY DAY for over thirty years.  He claimed he wasn't an alcoholic because he "never missed a day of work."  He was a doctor-turned-stockbroker.   He died of advanced dementia, preceded by alcoholic dementia.  So it wasn't just going to parties and drinking.  My children were embarrassed too many times when they had their court-ordered weekend visits.

This is horrific, and I feel for your family, but there's no direct indication that we've been SHOWN that Darcey has a drinking problem. She got shit-faced and acted like a asshole, but that doesn't mean she's a drunk - functioning or otherwise. Getting drunk and being A drunk are not the same things.

Quote

We're all allowed to have our dealbreakers in relationships, and he wouldn't be the first person for whom "a drinking problem" was a dealbreaker. 

True but it seems like that should have been something they discussed BEFORE he sent her out to meet his mom at a wine bar, no? And I can recall at least two other times she was drinking - at that restaurant when they had to sit because of her shoes and when they went to his parents.  

[poeticlicensed]

7 minutes ago, shockermolar said:

True but it seems like that should have been something they discussed BEFORE he sent her out to meet his mom at a wine bar, no? And I can recall at least two other times she was drinking - at that restaurant when they had to sit because of her shoes and when they went to his parents.

Not just before the wine bar, this is something you talk about when forming a relationship. For him  not to say anything while you are communicating for months about your stance on alcohol, have Darcy fly over, then demand she give up drinking is not right. 

FTR, I like my glass of wine on the weekend. If some guy that I have been in a short term relationship knew I drank occasionally and never talked to me how he felt, then demanded I stop months in would be asked to take a flying leap. PS. I still maintain the Darcy/Jesse relationship is fake.  

Edited October 2, 2017 by poeticlicensed

[AmyBre]

I do not comment much on Jesse and Darcey's circus because I think it's all staged.   There's a little bit of them in their interactions, but I believe they are being told what to do in exchange for a little promotion of their respective products.

Having said that, I believe that Jesse is overplaying the whole alcoholism angle because he is using it to get out.   Cowards some times do this when they can't face the music and own up to what they truly feel.  I once had someone dump me because I sympathized with the major of the city we lived in.   I can't wait for this season to be over.   

As much entertainment as it has provided, it has run its course.  They overstayed their visit.  Time to go.

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, chickenella said:

Any plans you had are now cancelled and you're stuck putting this person to bed and/or dealing with whatever drunken crap they feel like bitching about til they finally pass out. Then you spend the rest of the night bored and waiting to try to talk some sense into the sobered up loved one the next day. Not fun.

My deceased father's wife's daughter (not our stepsister since we were all adults when they married) just disclosed that her husband of 27 years is a severe alcoholic.  She is an RN and has to daily aspirate him each night when she gets home.  He is covered in vomit and urine.  She finally filed for divorce and he keeps texting her that no man would want her etc.  She believes him.  She needs help herself and I recommended AL Anon.  I really feel for her.

8 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

 

@Former Nun, I'm so sorry that you and your children had to deal with that. Hugs.

@Cherrio, I agree with you that Jesse was creepy and controlling in the way he demanded it. 

When one has had a experience with alcoholics and their antics, one of the red flags (episode title!) is major behavior change when the person drinks too much. Someone who is usually jovial becomes nasty. Someone usually calm becomes violent. Darcey morphing from needy, "please love me" to sarcastic mocking and hiding in the dark (LIKE WTF?!) not responding to repeated attempts to contact her, is a sign of a problem. 

When I was Jesse's age I probably would have blown it off as a one off. But it appears Jesse has a pretty good amount of experience with alcoholics and perhaps that is why he is so rigid and controlling in other areas. He can't control Darcey's drinking, but he seems to be young enough to think he can, at least in that moment. Maybe he is trying to resolve his relationship with his mother. Freud would eat this up with a spoon.

 

P.S. He won't be able to control Darcey, just like he couldn't control his mom (or whoever the alcoholic was). You can't control other people, especially not those with addictions. 

@Former Nun - Our father was an alcoholic his entire life.  Our mother left him when we were in Jr. high and the good thing was that he turned down the court enforced visits.  Couldn't be bothered but he did go to work every day and did pay his child support/his part of all expenses on time each and every week.  We considered ourselves lucky.  He outlived our mother which we found to be completely unfair for she was our hero.

Jesse is very creepy.

Paul is very creepy.  I kind of call shenanigans on the whole robbery thing.  Why wouldn't the robber steal the cameraman's camera?

Karine - Scabies?  Holy crap!  I agreed with Sean, she does love the other guy.  Why he wouldn't just high tail it out of there is beyond me.  That's what you get for playing with children.

[Palomar]

Sean KNOWS what is going on.  Hopefully he just leaves and learns from this mess.  He even said that Abby loves Chris more than she loves him.  Period.  Chris is going to stay after Sean goes home which means they WIL hook up(even if they are engaged)  and that Abby has no plans of giving up Chris.  It is the only time she really gets pissed when that possibility comes up.  Seeing the footage in the car when they think the cameras are off pretty much tells it all.  Chris wants her but likes her enough to tell her the truth that he is not going to marry/rescue her. 

IF somehow Sean marries Abby, there will always be a Chris in her life (their life). And he is right, he can never trust her.  Walk away and bring some dignity home with you.

Yes, Darcy your instincts are correct...having a 24 year old control you is the WORST.   

Didn't Paul say he had a "lengthy" record?  A restraining order could possibly be explained but what else besides arson (most likely for insurance money). Stalking, kidnapping?  I feel sorry for Karine. She deserves much better.  It is definitely too bad he didn't tell her earlier.  The sad thing is like others have said, she probably would have stayed. 

[Normades]

Isn't it interesting that the guy with a record for arson says he was BURNED by his past girlfriends???  Freudian slip!!!

[Madding crowd]

I just started  watching this franchise this year-wow I missed a lot of crazy. The whole Paul and Katrine thing seemed staged, but it is obvious that Paul is nuts and Karine seems sweet (by the little I know of her). As for Abby and Sean, I am going to go the opposite way and say Chris is a slimeball and Sean at least wants to marry Abby.  I have nothing to say about what Abby has to do to survive because I am not in her position, but trying to screw over another person is not cool no matter what the circumstances. Chris is not just a friend who she hangs out with and has things in common with. From the whispered comments and innuendo in the cab, he still is or expects to have sex with her, gave her a communicable disease and is trying to help her scam Sean so he will marry her. I'm no fan of Sean, but he has made his intentions clear, and most people would not be cool with meeting someone who gave their potential fiancé scabies. 

I have sometimes thought Darcy and Jesse are fake, but they both seem pretty emotional for fakeness.  I don't think Jesse has the right to ask Darcy to never drink again based on one incident. Other people being alcoholic have no bearing on his judging Darcy-one incident does not mean anything. She needs to cut her losses and head home.

Courtney seems incredibly dull and why she expects some sort of instant relationship, i don't know.  But Antonio (is that his name) is not that attractive and seems pretty dull himself, so hope they some attention out of. This. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Madding crowd

[Kath94]

8 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Courtney seems incredibly dull and why she expects some sort of instant relationship, i don't know.  But Antonio (is that his name) is not that attractive and seems pretty dull himself, so hope they some attention out of. This. 

Anybody else think Antonio sounds like "astronaut Jose Jiminez" when he speaks English?  "Me no unnerstaaan."

Edited October 2, 2017 by Kath94
spelling

[Former Nun]

1 hour ago, jumper sage said:

@Former Nun - Our father was an alcoholic his entire life.  Our mother left him when we were in Jr. high and the good thing was that he turned down the court enforced visits.  Couldn't be bothered but he did go to work every day and did pay his child support/his part of all expenses on time each and every week.  We considered ourselves lucky.  He outlived our mother which we found to be completely unfair for she was our hero.

I agree on the "hero" part, JumperSage.   My kids and I joke (morbidly) that "at least we didn't have to go through an ugly custoday fight."  Their father wanted to be a cool playboy...not tied down with kids.  He also paid his court-ordered child support and even helped his boys in college.  Luckily, I'm still kickin'.  He died a little over a year ago (he had lost everything...including $400,000 in a 3-yr period after his wife died) and my kids and I wrote his obituary.  We didn't have the guts to be cruel, but there were things that his old acquaintances enjoyed and "understood."

[StayingAfterSunday]

20 hours ago, Granny58 said:

Corny and Antonio - as hard as it is to believe, HE is looking much better than her.  She is so bossy, it's unbelievable.  

Yep, I caught the spoiled-and-entitled vibe from her the moment she walked out of that pageant the first night.

[Former Nun]

It seems odd to me that posters who like their cocktails...or want to have a glass of wine object (strongly?) to another person's want or need to completely avoid dealing with alcohol.  To each his/her own.  Jesse gave his  moeder...oops, his girlfriend his expectation, asked for a concession, and she agreed.  Now they have a contract.  Can't that just be the end of it and we can snark on everything else about them?

[bichonblitz]

3 hours ago, Drogo said:

We're all allowed to have our dealbreakers in relationships, and he wouldn't be the first person for whom "a drinking problem" was a dealbreaker.  

Then he should have made a point of it on Day 1 of their "online romance". He's just a control freak and Darcy's drinking is only one of the many things he's going to control once he gets his grips on her completely. He's a jerk and she's a moron. 

3 hours ago, Sprockets said:

I'm not convinced that is her actual diagnosis, or even that the "rash" is not a made up plot point.  My understanding of scabies is that, if you have it, you are going to be so miserable that you can't do much except scratch.

Well, Dr. Know it all Chris diagnosed it as Scabies and he's always right. At least Abby thinks he is. He also told Abby that she and Seanie needed to get treatment together or they will keep passing it back and forth. Gross. 

[Drogo]

Just now, bichonblitz said:

Then he should have made a point of it on Day 1 of their "online romance". He's just a control freak and Darcy's drinking is only one of the many things he's going to control once he gets his grips on her completely. He's a jerk and she's a moron. 

A lot of people don't discuss dealbreakers until they become relevant, as in, about to break the deal; I'd venture most don't mention them in their opening lines.  Some people can't deal with stressful situations without having a few drinks and/or can't have a few drinks without becoming ugly.  Jesse seems to have realized Darcey's one of them.  Literally running away (into bushes, no less) isn't "a glass of wine, what's wrong with that" behavior.  

It's refreshing to see any of the love interests actually call the Americans on their bullshit. 

[jennylauren123]

16 hours ago, Dobian said:

Machete mugging, that's a new one on me.  Yep, Paul's gf is getting her phone stolen and shots are being fired while he's contemplating taking a dip in some raw sewage.  You just can't find vacation packages like this anymore.

I'm dyin' here! This message board is one of the best by far. The show is great entertainment. This board? Almost as good! Thank you!

[laddibugg]

20 hours ago, Morgalisa said:

"If" Abby is a sex worker, it has not beaten her down. She still looks very fresh faced and attractive.  I know shes very young, but that is a hard life and puts a lot of mileage on a vagina and on a face. Just sayin.

I think there are day to day sex workers and then there are women who are in it for the long con. If you think Abby is a sex worker then she  is probably the latter. That's no different  than having a lot of partners...just now there's money involved. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by laddibugg

[PamelaMaeSnap]

17 hours ago, bethster2000 said:

Pyrophillia involves sexual satisfaction from starting fires, talking about fires, observing fires as they burn, and especially observing fires that they themselves set.

In essence, they set their fire, go to a safe location to watch their handiwork, and they masturbate.

One very distressing example of this was the Our Lady of Angels school fire in Chicago in December 1958.  It was set by a student, Philip (Decker) Presti, who had a long history of setting fires.  The one he set that day killed nearly 100 people in the school: several nuns and many, many children who were trapped in the flames. When he was eventually questioned about his crime (he was never actually accused, due to connections his family had in Chicago), he was left alone in the interrogation room for a stint and was secretly observed.  Phillip had the photos that were taken as the school burned, and he was masturbating furiously.

Excellent book about this ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002CZPRHW/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

ETA: The book is about the Our Lady of Angels fire, not about pyrophilia! 

Edited October 3, 2017 by PamelaMaeSnap
To clarify

[gonecrackers]

34 minutes ago, Drogo said:

A lot of people don't discuss dealbreakers until they become relevant, as in, about to break the deal; I'd venture most don't mention them in their opening lines.  Some people can't deal with stressful situations without having a few drinks and/or can't have a few drinks without becoming ugly.  Jesse seems to have realized Darcey's one of them.  Literally running away (into bushes, no less) isn't "a glass of wine, what's wrong with that" behavior.  

It's refreshing to see any of the love interests actually call the Americans on their bullshit. 

I agree, but what bothered me was how childlike she was with him. It was really like he was speaking to a small child & she was responding to an authority figure.

[Sprockets]

5 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

 I agree, but what bothered me was how childlike she was with him. It was really like he was speaking to a small child & she was responding to an authority figure.

Oh yeah, I noticed that several times before.  She goes all little girly with him at the drop of a hat.  She's probably been calling him Daddy a lot.  And then she complains he's controlling.  He seems very dominant to me, and she seems whiny and passive.  There are reasons why certain people find each other.  

Edited October 2, 2017 by Sprockets
weird clump

[wovenloaf]

1 hour ago, Former Nun said:

It seems odd to me that posters who like their cocktails...or want to have a glass of wine object (strongly?) to another person's want or need to completely avoid dealing with alcohol.  To each his/her own.  Jesse gave his  moeder...oops, his girlfriend his expectation, asked for a concession, and she agreed.  Now they have a contract.  Can't that just be the end of it and we can snark on everything else about them?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.  (Well, no, actually - I think I do get your implication, I just find it uncalled for and am hoping you meant something else.)  I haven't seen a single person here object to Jesse's decision to avoid alcohol/dealing with drunk people.  What I have seen (and agree with) is people objecting to the manner in which he seems to have failed to previously explain to Darcey that that was important to him, and went from "Enjoy some wine with my mom!" to "Never drink a single drop again or this relationship will immediately be over!" in a matter of hours.  And in context (of what we see on the show anyway), it seemed over the top and controlling. 

[bichonblitz]

41 minutes ago, Drogo said:

A lot of people don't discuss dealbreakers until they become relevant, as in, about to break the deal

And this is why there is so much Divorce. If I ever needed to start dating again (dear god, no, please, never ever again), dealbreakers would come up very early in the relationship discussion. Why waste time, lol

[Morgalisa]

11 minutes ago, laddibugg said:

I think there are day to day sex workers and then there are women who are in it for the long con. If you think Abby is a sex worker then she  is probably the latter. That's no different  than having a lot of partners...just now there's money involved. 

I dont think she is a sex worker.  Other posters who know the area think she is. They have more information on the area than I do (which is zero). I still have a hard time seeing her as a sex worker.  I like her and wish her well. I cant imagine what it must be like for those young impoverished women who seem to have no way out.

[Bibi]

17 hours ago, Former Nun said:

 

I didn't get that.  He repeated the "no drinking" often enough.

He's got wine at home. Why would he tell her not to drink at all?...

When you say someone drinks, the subtext is "they drink too much". Not that they drink occasionally.