The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[JoanArc]

Dropped out or was asked to leave? Poor Joe.

Maybe he got engaged and dropped out because of that?

[Absolom]

Do they have any certificate type programs at Crown?

 

ETA:  To answer my own question, they do, but they are two year programs. There is a one year certificate in Foundation for Christian Life.  That sounds fairly Duggary.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Absolom

[Churchhoney]

Sadly, it appears from Joe's birthday message today that he has dropped out of Clown College. They say he wants to get real estate and commercial driving licenses. Now, if he's in RE, and Jizm Boob is in RE, and lord knows how many other howlers (and supposedly Ben) get into RE, aren't they going to fight over listings, or will they just share a big community pot with Boob always in control? 

 

So sad. 

Well, we know it'll be the bolded part, at least.

 

I guess somebody noticed all the complaints about the JD/Jana greeting. "Mom and Dad" left their name off the signature this time.

[BitterApple]

Do they have any certificate type programs at Crown?

ETA: To answer my own question, they do, but they are two year programs. There is a one year certificate in Foundation for Christian Life. That sounds fairly Duggary.

For the hell of it, I clicked on some of their "degree" programs. In the Biology description, they claim Clown College "adequately" prepares students for medical, dental or veterinary school. Who knew.

I always got the feeling Joe could care less about school. Sending him off was just an F.U. Interwebz moment.

[Sew Sumi]

Even before I saw the answer as to whether there was a one year certificate program, I knew Joe couldn't have completed one, because a)I looked into them when we discovered Joe was going to matriculate at CC, and they are fall-entry, and b)the birthday acknkowlegement would have bragged about it. It just said that he completed one year at CC. 

 

I agree that he ended up being the sacrificial lamb to shut up the big, bad interwebz. I guess Josiah was still not to be trusted, because he always seemed more intellectually curious than Joe, not that that's saying much. 

[RazzleberryPie]

Joe surprised me at that last interview special thingy. He sounded more articulate and sincere than any of them. I really think he is disgusted by josh and did not know about his activities. They were all obviously prepped before the interview, but joe sounded the least rehearsed and most natural.

I wonder if him leaving college was due to lack of funds from JimBob, and a sense of family obligation from joe - thinking the family income has been altered severely, so it's best for him to start working. We know JimBob has a lot of irons in the fire, but I can see him exaggerating to kept from having to pay for school or having a kid about of his control.

Or maybe Joe really was up there as a partial FU interwebz and partial almost courting situation. If he's ready to marry that's another reason to need income now. I could also see him having some brotherly protection over the younger kids and coming home to be more of a father figure. Lord knows they need somebody besides JimBob and Josh.

I'm glad he did at least get a year away from the compound and living a semi-normal young adult life for a minute.

[LilyoftheValley]

 

Jana did that "first responder" b.s. years ago. She's twenty-six and hasn't accomplished a thing.

Reading that they're 26 just completely blew my mind.  I am no wunderkind or anything but by 26 I had already had lots of experiences (that weren't trips with my family).  The summer I turned 26 I took a camping trip to Sardinia and then I went to Berlin to take an EU law course at a German university.  I had an affair with the hottest German guy there too.  I could not imagine being that age and living at home and taking care of little brothers and sisters.  I suddenly feel a strong pang of sadness for Jana.  

 

This people aren't really living life and their lives have no meaning.  It's a tragedy.  

Edited January 21, 2016 by LilyoftheValley

[BitterApple]

Honestly if I had to live Jana's life I'd be popping pills by the handful and stockpiling a stash of Johnny Walker under my bed. Jana's going to be a permanent day at home daughter. It sucks, and I'm not wishing bad on her, but Joshley Madison pretty much killed all decent marriage prospects for Jinger and Jana.

[Defrauder]

Honestly if I had to live Jana's life I'd be popping pills by the handful and stockpiling a stash of Johnny Walker under my bed. Jana's going to be a permanent day at home daughter. It sucks, and I'm not wishing bad on her, but Joshley Madison pretty much killed all decent marriage prospects for Jinger and Jana.

Maybe Jana can stash some cash to get the fuck out of there.  There aren't any decent marriage prospects in their cult, only the hope of a new owner and less work. 

[louannems]

Joe surprised me at that last interview special thingy. He sounded more articulate and sincere than any of them. I really think he is disgusted by josh and did not know about his activities. They were all obviously prepped before the interview, but joe sounded the least rehearsed and most natural.

I wonder if him leaving college was due to lack of funds from JimBob, and a sense of family obligation from joe - thinking the family income has been altered severely, so it's best for him to start working. We know JimBob has a lot of irons in the fire, but I can see him exaggerating to kept from having to pay for school or having a kid about of his control.

Or maybe Joe really was up there as a partial FU interwebz and partial almost courting situation. If he's ready to marry that's another reason to need income now. I could also see him having some brotherly protection over the younger kids and coming home to be more of a father figure. Lord knows they need somebody besides JimBob and Josh.

I'm glad he did at least get a year away from the compound and living a semi-normal young adult life for a minute.

Somehow, I don't see unaccredited, extremely conservative Crown College as being a normal, American college experience. I've read a couple books on break-away fundies, and I know they have tons of strict rules. I think about my college days back in the mid 70's!

[Barb23]

Sadly, it appears from Joe's birthday message today that he has dropped out of Clown College. They say he wants to get real estate and commercial driving licenses. Now, if he's in RE, and Jizm Boob is in RE, and lord knows how many other howlers (and supposedly Ben) get into RE, aren't they going to fight over listings, or will they just share a big community pot with Boob always in control? 

 

So sad.

Hoping he gets his commercial driving license & gets the Hell out of Dodge by being a long haul truck driver. Seriously doubt that will happen. I'm sure Boob is pushing him towards Duggar Towing. Do you need a CDL to drive a tow truck?

[kokapetl]

There was a photo of Joe filling in an application for a fast food restaurant job in clown town, I don't think JimBob was financially supportive, or really supportive in any way, with Joe going to "college". It's quite sad, Joe probably had to save up to attend, his savings probably ran out.

[LilyoftheValley]

I highly doubt if Joe was prepared to go to college.  You simply cannot go straight into college level work with the equivalent of a 6th grade education.  I'm sure CC is really easy, but if you have never studied a day in your life, or been required to break down complex information then you will have a really hard time in college.

[RazzleberryPie]

Joe definitely has a lot of obstacles to overcome if he wants a college degree, and he still has many years to accomplish them if he chooses. Several of my own Family members went back in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. I hope he does, and that he encourages his own children to obtain a better education.

I just hope he left for a good reason instead of 'kolleje is hard and for heatherns, y'all'.

[RazzleberryPie]

Somehow, I don't see unaccredited, extremely conservative Crown College as being a normal, American college experience. I've read a couple books on break-away fundies, and I know they have tons of strict rules. I think about my college days back in the mid 70's!

It isn't normal and I didn't say it was. It's semi-normal, but a bigger step than any other Duggar has ever taken. Crown College is unaccredited and has strict rules, but I don't like to lump people who party 24/7 or experiment with whatever as the 'normal' American college experience. Just as many people have a far more middle of the road experience as those who have a wild one or a very conservative one. Either way, joe was able to leave home, live with more autonomy, manage some of his own time and finances, go to ball games, make friends, etc. That is far more 'normal' than living at the TT House in a single room with 10 brothers and only associating with your siblings and a handful of others.

[LilyoftheValley]

I do not want to sound like too much of a snob, but fundie homeschooling nonsense aside, no one in the Duggar family appears to be college material to me.  The all seem to have IQs floating around 100, which is perfectly average but college is meant for people who are above average.  

 

Now that does not mean that they cannot gain a valuable skill that would pay the bills, but no one in that family strikes me as being anything more than totally average when it comes to intellect.  

[Tabbygirl521]

I do not want to sound like too much of a snob, but fundie homeschooling nonsense aside, no one in the Duggar family appears to be college material to me. The all seem to have IQs floating around 100, which is perfectly average but college is meant for people who are above average.

Now that does not mean that they cannot gain a valuable skill that would pay the bills, but no one in that family strikes me as being anything more than totally average when it comes to intellect.

At least they would get away from the Insemination Palace, and out of earshot of hey hey hey and god knows what else.

I wonder if, when they go to someone else's home, do they ask where the ovulation chart is. Do they think that is normal decor? Or conversation? Freak show.

[LilyoftheValley]

That Crown College actually looked like it had two good vocational programs - mechanic and HVAC.  The cosmetology program looked fine too, but that don't pay for shit.  Of course its all guys in the former and women in the latter.  Women would be smart to get that HVAC training, but of course girls cannot possibly do that.  Shit, I do not remember the exact cost, but I got a quote from an HVAC guy to install a split unit AC at my house and I had to stop myself from asking if he was looking for a girlfriend.  Those guys make bank. 

[laurakaye]

Quick question from a lurker on this forum:

 

At the risk of having to wash my brain out with bleach, I'm afraid I'm not familiar with "hey, hey, hey."  Please tell me it's not Jim Boob's mating call........

[BitterApple]

Alyssa Bates' husband is an HVAC tech. With Duggar boys like JD and Joe who seem mechanically inclined, I can't figure out why Boob won't let them go to trade school. Is having a skill and making a good living undesirable in their culture? Keeping his children ignorant and isolated doesn't seem to be working out too well. Josh got a whiff of freedom in D.C. and within a year was paying porn stars for sex. It might be time to loosen the reigns.

Edited January 21, 2016 by BitterApple

[Churchhoney]

Quick question from a lurker on this forum:

 

At the risk of having to wash my brain out with bleach, I'm afraid I'm not familiar with "hey, hey, hey."  Please tell me it's not Jim Boob's mating call........

 

Sorry. We cannot tell you that.

 

We can tell you that the kids clearly know about it and have joked about it on national television.

 

They are such a wholesome, godly, clean-minded and conservative, old-fashioned family.

[Sew Sumi]

I highly doubt if Joe was prepared to go to college.  You simply cannot go straight into college level work with the equivalent of a 6th grade education.  I'm sure CC is really easy, but if you have never studied a day in your life, or been required to break down complex information then you will have a really hard time in college.

One day I was bored and went down the Clown College rabbit hole reading instructor bios. Some of them don't even have Master's Degrees! Hell, that's a pre-requisite to teach at COMMUNITY COLLEGE in California. So I posit that Joe's 6th grade education level could have been sufficient to pass classes there. After all, they're teaching math classes as basic as 8th grade algebra, not as prep for higher math, but as an acutal credit-earning class. So yeah, "education" at Clown College leaves much to be desired. 

[Churchhoney]

I always got the feeling Joe could care less about school. Sending him off was just an F.U. Interwebz moment.

 

This strikes me as what Jim Bob was thinking, too.

 

But here's what I don't get about Joe himself. Now, I've seen almost nothing of him, since I have never actually watched the show. But there does seem to be a general perception that he wouldn't care about going to college really.

 

And yet -- for a long time they've said that he gets up early every morning and reads the Bible. (KJV, I'm thinking) And wasn't he one that actually memorized the Book of Proverbs or something? How can someone be attentive enough to thought and poetry and formal, old-fashioned English to read the KJV every morning -- reportedly for a fairly long period every day? -- but then have no intellectual interests at all that might pull him toward college? That seems like a huge contradiction to me. If he's actually able to concentrate on Old Testament readings from the KJV on a daily basis, I would think that he has to have some ability with language and some interest in ideas.

 

I mean, Lincoln -- a poor young man largely deprived of books in the early going -- famously imbibed much of his eventually spectacular prose style from regular readings of the Oxford Bible. And he's not the only old-time poor-person-made-good of whom this is said. Their abilities showed in the fact that they would apply themselves to that reading with energy and on a regular basis. ....... Now I know that Joe Duggar would most likely be reading it for a different reason. But if he truly does read it every morning, I don't see how he can be the complete intellectual dullard that he's generally expected to be.

 

....Of course then I think of Bin.... But then does Bin actually read it or just find quotes on PInterest and Instagram that have a lot of death-and-destruction words in them?

 

Baffled by the Duggs and the bible. As by the Duggs and so many things.

[graefin]

The all seem to have IQs floating around 100, which is perfectly average but college is meant for people who are above average. 

That high?

[RazzleberryPie]

Honestly, none of them have the formal k-12 educational background for higher education, so a transition to college would be hard, but I'm not sure if many of them have a vocational/technical aptitude either.

I don't want to come off as sounding like academic smarts are better than technical smarts, or vice versa, BUT....no matter what their learning styles and interests, these people are lazy.

They don't finish anyththing, they pick up and drop interests, they're never on time, they refuse to follow any sort of schedule or protocol that they didn't invent. They do everything 'a little differently.' This just makes them lazy AND self-centered.

I wouldn't trust any of them to get through, say a real nursing or teaching program, OR through an HVAC or electrician program. They'd take shortcuts and presume they knew the best, then install something that would burn the damn house down.

Summary = Joe getting up early to study the KJV impresses me bc at least it shows some discipline in being able to stick to a routine or show some interest in something. I also wonder if he would make a good minister, but he just doesn't want to do the grifting missioncation or constant LOOK AT ME pontification they all seem to associate with ministry. Sad. Just sad.

Also, I hate the thought that college is for the 'best' and 'smartest' and vocational schools are for the 'dumb people who can't cut college.' Some pure idiots make it through masters degree programs and some intelligent and wise people have very good lives and incomes as tradesmen.

Edited January 21, 2016 by RazzleberryPie

[Micks Picks]

Churchhoney, I also remember Joe being paid $1000 to memorize the Book of Psalms or something.  At least I think it was Joe.  I also thought Joe was going to Crown for a religious program.  Of course there was also talk of him hanging around one of Gill Bates's daughters, spending time at the Bates house with the one he was in college with.  

 

HVAC and similar courses would be terrific and it's hard to believe JB could come up with objections.  After all, he can use those skills in his businesses.

[barbedwire]

Exactly!  JimBoob could use an HVAC person for his buildings.

[BitterApple]

One day I was bored and went down the Clown College rabbit hole reading instructor bios. Some of them don't even have Master's Degrees! Hell, that's a pre-requisite to teach at COMMUNITY COLLEGE in California. So I posit that Joe's 6th grade education level could have been sufficient to pass classes there. After all, they're teaching math classes as basic as 8th grade algebra, not as prep for higher math, but as an acutal credit-earning class. So yeah, "education" at Clown College leaves much to be desired.

Are you kidding me?! In some areas you need a Masters to teach high school, for God's sake. Clown College is like Reformers Unanimous of higher education.

[JoanArc]

Getting up early to read the bible could mean jerking off to the song of Solomon in the prayer closet, or just picking the one time when you can get any privacy on that house. He might like not being around his family every.single.second. of the day.

[LilyoftheValley]

Worse still is that you can see a few of the faculty teaches subjects they either have no higher education in or just a minor http://thecrowncollege.com/about-crown/faculty-staff/

 

And many of the teaching staff are very recent graduates of CC itself.  There are only few standouts with a master's or phd from a real university and in a real subject (i.e. not religion).  

[Aja]

I read "Gil Bates" as "Bill Gates" EVERY FREAKING TIME and have a split second of WTF???...every freaking time. *off to apply for clown college*

[Churchhoney]

Getting up early to read the bible could mean jerking off to the song of Solomon in the prayer closet, or just picking the one time when you can get any privacy on that house. He might like not being around his family every.single.second. of the day.

 

Of course, to my mind, those things would attest to his having some spirit and intelligence as well!

[Joe Jitsu913]

My co-worker went to Clown College. He admits it's not accredited and seems kind of embarrassed by it, actually. He's very smart, eloquent, and professional and he's made a decent career out of what little education he's had. I think he was able to succeed because of his intellect and he's naturally driven. The Duggars, not so much.

[JenCarroll]

Alyssa Bates' husband is an HVAC tech. With Duggar boys like JD and Joe who seem mechanically inclined, I can't figure out why Boob won't let them go to trade school. Is having a skill and making a good living undesirable in their culture? Keeping his children ignorant and isolated doesn't seem to be working out too well. Josh got a whiff of freedom in D.C. and within a year was paying porn stars for sex. It might be time to loosen the reigns.

Yeah, that would make sense to anyone that's not Jim Bob. Sadly, I'm thinking they take the opposite approach here: "We didn't hold on tight enough! Squash the rest of them tighter!" The only possible saving grace for the little ones is that Boob and Meech probably don't have the energy anymore to really follow through.

[RazzleberryPie]

My co-worker went to Clown College. He admits it's not accredited and seems kind of embarrassed by it, actually. He's very smart, eloquent, and professional and he's made a decent career out of what little education he's had. I think he was able to succeed because of his intellect and he's naturally driven. The Duggars, not so much.

This just goes to prove that the 'right school' isn't a guarantee for success, just as a small school and no k-12 prep for higher ed isn't a guarantee for failure. A lot of it has to deal with personality, drive, connections, etc. If the Duggars, or anyone else in this world, want a college degree, they can work hard, do some planning, choose a program they can complete, and just do it. 

 

Obviously, Abraham Lincoln, as mentioned above, was a rare case in a totally different time, and none of the Duggars have the intelligence, passion or capabilities that Lincoln had, but Lincoln also didn't have the access to the vast resources that the Duggars do (online learning, libraries, mentoring, etc. - uh, ELECTRICITY).

 

I know they're 100% against loans, and full financial, academic or athletic scholarships are a long shot for the Duggars, but if any of them really want to finish a four year degree they can. Millions of students work multiple jobs, live at home, have families, go part time, take remedial courses, etc. The Duggars just don't want to or feel like they need to do so.  

[mimionthebeach]

I read "Gil Bates" as "Bill Gates" EVERY FREAKING TIME and have a split second of WTF???...every freaking time. *off to apply for clown college*

Same.

[Sew Sumi]

Worse still is that you can see a few of the faculty teaches subjects they either have no higher education in or just a minor http://thecrowncollege.com/about-crown/faculty-staff/

 

And many of the teaching staff are very recent graduates of CC itself.  There are only few standouts with a master's or phd from a real university and in a real subject (i.e. not religion).  

Wonderful. I went down that rabbit hole several years ago (I think when we heard that's where Erin was going, so what, 6/7 years now?). Nothing seems to have changed. They will never get accredidation based on their instructor bios. Note that I didn't call them professors. 

[Wellfleet]

I read "Gil Bates" as "Bill Gates" EVERY FREAKING TIME and have a split second of WTF???...every freaking time. *off to apply for clown college*

 

You're fine, aja - just a wee touch of dyslexia. LOL. But I gotta admit, a Duggar-style fundie with $50 billion is a scary thought...

[LilyoftheValley]

Wonderful. I went down that rabbit hole several years ago (I think when we heard that's where Erin was going, so what, 6/7 years now?). Nothing seems to have changed. They will never get accredidation based on their instructor bios. Note that I didn't call them professors. 

What is sad is that I really wish there were more schools like this in the U.S.  Not religious colleges, but affordable schools that offer 2 year vocational programs.  Crown College would be a great school for the Appalachian region if it dropped the super religious stuff and stuck to affordable programs that prepare a student for a skilled trade.  

 

But as someone above so eloquently posted, there is nothing that will cure the Duggars of their inability to stick with something all the way through until the end.  I agree that all the children ever saw growing up was an inability to commit to things.  I know there is a lot of discussion about how a college degree is not necessary for most things, but there it something about a college degree that is so important to any potential employer: it proves that the person who earned can devote themselves to something for years.  This is why no Duggar will ever earn a college degree.  You have to drag your ass out of bed every day and make a commitment to doing something that you could quit any time.  It's not the same thing as shadowing a midwife a couple of times.  It is a real, years-long devotion.  

[Sew Sumi]

Clown College does have a couple two year certificate programs, so they realize the need is there. However, Joe couldn't even enroll in one of these and stick it out. Again, I looked into those programs and they're all fall-entry, and Joe entered in spring, so I used my deductive reasoning skills (something Duggars sorely lack) to ascertain that he wasn't enrolled in a program that might actually suit his talents. 

 

As for the bible reading, these kids are all about the memorization; who knows how much they really UNDERSTAND about what they're reading in the KJV. Don't forget, their father pointed to a castle in Scotland and declared it the place where King James "wrote the bible." Yes, they read a Proverb a day, but I think it's rote memorization rather than true comprehension of the text.

[riverblue22]

Maybe Joe took a course in advanced Bible memorization.

Edited January 22, 2016 by riverblue22

[Absolom]

JD seems to have stuck with a few things to finish them, but again nothing like a four year degree.  I'm glad for Jill's sake that she persevered enough to pass her CPM exam.  I have to say I don't think much of that though since I took a practice exam and passed it and I can't remember ever picking up a midwife textbook although I did do prepared childbirth with all my deliveries so I've been through a few of those classes. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by Absolom

[drafan]

I read "Gil Bates" as "Bill Gates" EVERY FREAKING TIME and have a split second of WTF???...every freaking time. *off to apply for clown college*

 I think he addresses this on one of the episodes.....like "Bill Gates is rich with money, but I'm rich with kids."......or some such nonsense.

 

I always think of Beaver Cleaver's snitchy friend on Leave it to Beaver.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

My co-worker went to Clown College. He admits it's not accredited and seems kind of embarrassed by it, actually. He's very smart, eloquent, and professional and he's made a decent career out of what little education he's had. I think he was able to succeed because of his intellect and he's naturally driven. The Duggars, not so much.

I have a fundie relative who went and she's dumber than dirt. They accept anyone who will pay the tuition.

Edited January 22, 2016 by FakeJoshDuggar

[truthtalk2014]

Has anyone considered the possibility that he flunked out and could not pass the classes?

[redlaces]

No. The story must be as sordid and completely devoid of facts as possible. 

[AnnieBeez]

What is sad is that I really wish there were more schools like this in the U.S.  Not religious colleges, but affordable schools that offer 2 year vocational programs.  Crown College would be a great school for the Appalachian region if it dropped the super religious stuff and stuck to affordable programs that prepare a student for a skilled trade.  

[snip]

 

Community colleges do that. At least they do in the places I've lived. 

[Barb23]

There was a photo of Joe filling in an application for a fast food restaurant job in clown town, I don't think JimBob was financially supportive, or really supportive in any way, with Joe going to "college". It's quite sad, Joe probably had to save up to attend, his savings probably ran out.

  

Has anyone considered the possibility that he flunked out and could not pass the classes?

I'm thinking both of these reasons.

[Micks Picks]

Thanks you all, you've really had me laughing at the reasons Joe is no longer in college.  I don't cry tears of sorrow but I do cry tears of laughter and you got me going.  As a plus I have the movie Terrible Bosses 2 on right now and was also watching Kevin Spacy explaining from jail that the reason the 3 wannabes would lose is because they have no balls.  What a hoot.

[LilyoftheValley]

Clown College does have a couple two year certificate programs, so they realize the need is there. However, Joe couldn't even enroll in one of these and stick it out. Again, I looked into those programs and they're all fall-entry, and Joe entered in spring, so I used my deductive reasoning skills (something Duggars sorely lack) to ascertain that he wasn't enrolled in a program that might actually suit his talents. 

 

As for the bible reading, these kids are all about the memorization; who knows how much they really UNDERSTAND about what they're reading in the KJV. Don't forget, their father pointed to a castle in Scotland and declared it the place where King James "wrote the bible." Yes, they read a Proverb a day, but I think it's rote memorization rather than true comprehension of the text.

I do not know which part of that sentence to correct first so I won't even try.  I do wonder, however, if that particular castle was a place where King James met with one of his many male lovers.

 

That's right Duggars, a bisexual man wrote that there bible of yours.