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The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

SpaghettiTuesdays

By SpaghettiTuesdays
in Counting On

Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45,

Discussing the charges against Jana is fine, but do not post any information that reveals her address/contact information- even if said documents are public (i.e. a part of court proceedings.)

Discussing charges against Jana is NOT a jumping off point to speculate on other instances abuse/neglect etc towards the M-children or to elaborate on Josh's conviction and potential victims.  

 

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Zella

Zella

Just now, rue721 said:

That video! Did you all hear the "pledges to marry" that they made? This is even more formal and emotionless than I could have imagined. I don't think they know each other at all, this might literally have been the first time they've met in person.

There is less intimacy and emotion here than in a successful job interview. It honestly is pretty chilling to me.

I understand why young people would agree to something like this. They probably don't know any better, they probably don't have real/stable personal identities yet, they trust their parents absolutely because they aren't mature enough to understand that their parents are just regular, fallible human beings who may not even always have their best interests at heart or really know what those best interests are.

What I think is appalling is doing this to your children. How Katey's father, who has himself been divorced, can have the arrogance to think he can pick a spouse for her like this!

God, I am flummoxed by this video. Absolutely bewildered.

I have only made it through the first minute or so because it is buffering so bad for me, but your job interview comment is spot-on! The actual proposal seemed like some sort of business deal. I know there's been rumors about him seeing her for awhile, and I see no reason to doubt that. But they come across as people who just met and agreed to go to lunch with each other to discuss a business deal, not spend the rest of their lives in holy matrimony together. 

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Ijustwantsomechips
Ijustwantsomechips

Maybe Jana needs her own thread as a token of the respect she’ll never garner as a single woman in Gothardland.  

andromeda331
andromeda331

How about both hop in the plane close the door really quickly and fly off.  Abbie: "Where are we going?" JD: Cayman Islands. We're elope. And we're not coming back! Abbie: Wait we need

BitterApple
BitterApple

Wow, so this is what, the fourth guy to publicly release a statement denying involvement with Jana? That must be doing wonders for her self-esteem.  These guys are starting to piss me off, though

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cmr2014

cmr2014

(edited)
5 minutes ago, rue721 said:

That video! Did you all hear the "pledges to marry" that they made? This is even more formal and emotionless than I could have imagined. I don't think they know each other at all, this might literally have been the first time they've met in person.

There is less intimacy and emotion here than in a successful job interview. It honestly is pretty chilling to me.

I understand why young people would agree to something like this. They probably don't know any better, they probably don't have real/stable personal identities yet, they trust their parents absolutely because they aren't mature enough to understand that their parents are just regular, fallible human beings who may not even always have their best interests at heart or really know what those best interests are.

What I think is appalling is doing this to your children. How Katey's father, who has himself been divorced, can have the arrogance to think he can pick a spouse for her like this!

God, I am flummoxed by this video. Absolutely bewildered.

I think that what they think is this: if everyone involved behaves in a "Biblical" manner, then everyone will be happy. If the man makes all the decisions, and the woman devotes her life to making the man happy (as God ordained), then there is no reason to be unhappy. For them, what leads to unhappiness is people (women) not knowing their place and wanting something other than the role God gave them (serving their husband and bearing his children).

In a truly "Biblical" marriage, there are no disagreements, because women do what they're told and don't talk back. It's all just so exhausting.

Edited by cmr2014
one more thing
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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

 

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

I have only made it through the first minute or so because it is buffering so bad for me, but your job interview comment is spot-on! The actual proposal seemed like some sort of business deal. I know there's been rumors about him seeing her for awhile, and I see no reason to doubt that. But they come across as people who just met and agreed to go to lunch with each other to discuss a business deal, not spend the rest of their lives in holy matrimony together. 

I agree. As much emotion as a refi closing. There goes my initial theory that she's knocked up. 🤣

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Zella

Zella

1 minute ago, Jeeves said:

 

I agree. As much emotion as a refi closing. There goes my initial theory that she's knocked up. 🤣

That had been my theory, too, but not anymore! I think they may have been keeping it under wraps not because she was pregnant or because they were caught canoodling but instead because it seems so obviously arranged. I think what really stands out to me is how very mutual the awkwardness is. I remember Josiah and Lauren seeming awkward at their wedding, but it was way more him than her. Both of these two look like they'd be fine elsewhere. 

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rue721

rue721

(edited)

I mean, they also don't have a courtship announcement because there was no courtship. We aren't being inundated with cutesy pics and videos of them hanging out and getting to know each other because there aren't any, they may only have met at this one betrothal ceremony. The wedding is small/virtual because it is essentially just a contract signing, and the bride's mother isn't putting together any other fanfare for it.

I think it's not necessarily the case that there's a ton of secrecy, so much as there literally isn't any other footage -- because there is nothing to get footage of. I think it's probable that the entire "relationship" so far is a handshake deal between the two fathers, and that was done in some back room somewhere or even over Zoom, and now this betrothal ceremony (which they did film and release).

Edited by rue721
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cmr2014

cmr2014

(edited)

I wish I hadn't, but I watched part of the video.

There is no way that that was a "surprise." It was more planned and staged than any of the weddings we've seen. The awkwardness may have come from the fact that they were so obviously on camera and being filmed. 

OMG, the side hugs! I had to come back to edit because I forgot the side hugs -- such warmth and affection! It was all just so robotic and scripted "now we are engaged; now we are allowed to side hug; let us now embrace in the manner of our people with a side hug."

The "pledges" were ridiculous and obviously scripted -- either written by their fathers, or some boiler plate from a Gothard "Wisdom booklet."

I wish them the best (they're going to need it). I have noticed that (for the most part), the young marrieds seem a bit happier. I'm sure that regular sex helps, but they're also (at least partially) out from under the smothering umbrella of their parents, and they have someone to talk to who can relate to what they've experienced. I think it took Josh and Anna 5+ years to get to the point where they could talk to each other somewhat honestly (and then Josh almost immediately blew that up), but I think that some of the others are genuinely able to talk to each other and lean on each other (JD/Abbie, Joy/Austin, Joe/Kendra).

Edited by cmr2014
OMG the side hugs!
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madpsych78

madpsych78

Gah, this seemed way more like a cold business contract than some of the others. At least with the others who started off with a courtship, they seem to genuinely enjoy each other and be relaxed around each other by the time they got engaged. I'm even including Justin and Claire in this - even though they are very young, they seem really comfortable around each other.

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BitterApple

BitterApple

1 minute ago, madpsych78 said:

Gah, this seemed way more like a cold business contract than some of the others. At least with the others who started off with a courtship, they seem to genuinely enjoy each other and be relaxed around each other by the time they got engaged. I'm even including Justin and Claire in this - even though they are very young, they seem really comfortable around each other.

I agree. Justin and Claire have that giddy, first-crush vibe most of us experienced in middle school. They seem to have a good time together and are mutually attracted. Jed looked like he was suffering through a bad blind date, and counting down the seconds until he could flee.

 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

 

I also noticed he did a very platonic pat on the back when they side-hugged, which is usually a signal you want the other person to let go. 

 

Yeah, and he did it twice The first time he patted that really thick faux-fur collar on her coat. Then he paused for a second and pattered her farther down, where she could sense it. My first thought was that his subconscious realized she didn't even feel his subconsciously sent but fervently intended signal the first time. 😁

 

2 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I don't understand these filmed engagements. They walked into the barn and entire film crew was there? Even if it's just some cameras on tripod, it takes the surprise out of the proposal. 

Also takes the emotion, feeling of connection and meaning out of it. Or it would for me. It becomes wholly performative. Their vow speeches afterward sounded to me like a couple of middle-school kids reading portions of the Constitution aloud to the class. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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emmawoodhouse

emmawoodhouse

1 minute ago, xwordfanatik said:

It astounds me to imagine the level of brainwashing that those two must have experienced.

What happened to Hilaria's posting (paraphrased) that said that JB/Duggars don't arrange their kids' marriages?  Or did I imagine that?  

 

With all that Biblical Betrothal shit, I doubt these two even had a courtship. Just an arrangement between the parents.

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libgirl2

libgirl2

36 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. Justin and Claire have that giddy, first-crush vibe most of us experienced in middle school. They seem to have a good time together and are mutually attracted. Jed looked like he was suffering through a bad blind date, and counting down the seconds until he could flee.

 

Just like I think Kendra and Joe really were into each other as three babies in a row has shown. I do think that was a love match or at least a lust match. 

 

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crazy8s

crazy8s

1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

I think that what they think is this: if everyone involved behaves in a "Biblical" manner, then everyone will be happy.

if that is the case they need to spend more time reading their bible. Behavior there was not stellar and only "biblical" because someone wrote a story about it. David, Lot, Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau etc...

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

The thing is, the way the Duggarlings are raised, they have very very few opportunities to meet potential partners. And virtually no opportunity to actually get to know anybody. Definitely no opportunity to get to know somebody on their own, unless they're truly sneaking about in ways that they've been vigorously trained and conditioned out of, and hard to accomplish, too, probably, living in a community where their sibling snitches are all around. And they've also been trained to think that Daddy has a direct line to God and is literally their own protection against being burned alive for eternity. And I expect that, given Kory N's midlife conversion, he's scared his kids into the same thing. 

Plus, this entire crew have been conditioned to believe that all people who aren't in their own group (or in extremely similar group maybe) s are all highly likely to be ignorant, incompetent and, literally, satanic people. You don't want to marry one of those -- and you need a helpmeet spouse who'll know all the rules, too. So why not take one of these readymade ones? 

Given that most of them have apparently bought the validity of all of the above hook, line, and sinker, I get why they'd go along with this kind of thing. And Jed has clearly been JB's chosen child for a while, so he's probably even more invested in following what his parents want. 

What I wonder is whether any of this crowd will see, feel or learn things as their lives go on that shake them loose from all these beliefs....and what will happen if that ever happens......Many many many second-generation people in cults leave them eventually.....

In the case of both Duggarlings and Nakatsulings, I'm sure money has played and will play a huge role in cementing them into this, I suppose. But on the Duggar side, I sill wonder how long the money (and fame) will last in sufficient quantities to keep all this growing mob in the system. 

15 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

It astounds me to imagine the level of brainwashing that those two must have experienced.

What happened to Hilaria's posting (paraphrased) that said that JB/Duggars don't arrange their kids' marriages?  Or did I imagine that?  

 

I thought at the time that that had a "doth protest too much" feel. Now I wonder whether it wasn't directly connected to the arranged biblical betrothal they were all hiding at that very moment. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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floridamom

floridamom

I wonder...there has been a lot of talk going around about how the Duggars have really relaxed those silly courting/physical distance rules. Jill and Derick went on the record and said that a lot of their courting rules were 'for the show'. So, I suspect this is JB's answer to that. No, they haven't relaxed anything but in fact they have doubled up on them. Poor Jed!; he has the luck of the draw to demonstrate this to us.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
8 minutes ago, floridamom said:

I wonder...there has been a lot of talk going around about how the Duggars have really relaxed those silly courting/physical distance rules. Jill and Derick went on the record and said that a lot of their courting rules were 'for the show'. So, I suspect this is JB's answer to that. No, they haven't relaxed anything but in fact they have doubled up on them. Poor Jed!; he has the luck of the draw to demonstrate this to us.

Well, so far he's done a great job demonstrating it. "Hey, this couple look like they just met 20 minutes ago and weren't too taken with each other." 

 So I guess he can console himself with that! 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Pingaponga

Pingaponga

This was the most awkward-looking engagement of all the engagements. They both looked awkward, and no one looked excited. Even if it was a recreation, you'd think they'd look happier - I mean, you're recreating an engagement. 

He proposed, she accepted..and they both put their hands in their pockets? I mean, clearly it was freezing out, but c'mon.

Those pledges sure were something. I found his offensive, actually. Protecting her reputation by not being alone with her? I wanted to smack him. Hard.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
2 hours ago, Zella said:

they come across as people who just met and agreed to go to lunch with each other to discuss a business deal,=

And not a very substantial business deal, at that.

Sort of on the order of, "I'd like to be the ballpoint-pen supplier for your three-person office." 

Edited by Churchhoney
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crazy8s

crazy8s

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

A windshield scraper to clean frost off the plastic dome? 

I would have guessed that given the igloo dome thing but then the handle on her plate....neither salad has been touched. Katey's meal seems to have not been touched and Jed! has eaten half of his dinner. While they are both posing sitting all prim and proper for a pic. Weird

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cmr2014

cmr2014

1 hour ago, crazy8s said:

if that is the case they need to spend more time reading their bible. Behavior there was not stellar and only "biblical" because someone wrote a story about it. David, Lot, Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau etc...

I think that the patriarchs of this cult just slap "Biblical" in front of whatever they're talking about to give them justification for being control freaks.

"Biblical economics" has very little to do with fiscal security for the family and everything to do with giving a father control over his adult children until he (mercifully) dies.

"Biblical marriage" has nothing to do with marriage as described in the Bible (man sells his daughter to another man who may already have a number of wives and concubines). It's just a way to control women and to invalidate the lives of LGBTQ people.

"Biblical betrothal" should mean "selling your daughter to another tribesman," but they have defined it to provide them with another way to control their children.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
47 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I think it's a Valentine's card.

Yep. Now I see the flap of the envelope sticking up and her knife leaning on her plate. Now I can't not see those. 

Would like to read the card. Certainly passionate, poetic, personal and heartfelt as heck. Jed! learned to write greeting cards from Mom and Dad Duggar.

Edited by Churchhoney
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madpsych78

madpsych78

1 hour ago, xwordfanatik said:

It astounds me to imagine the level of brainwashing that those two must have experienced.

What happened to Hilaria's posting (paraphrased) that said that JB/Duggars don't arrange their kids' marriages?  Or did I imagine that?  

 

Well, in the case of Justin and Claire, that may not have been arranged in the same way. There was still a courtship, to be sure, and I'm sure that both sets of parents were involved, but I would bet that Justin and Claire had more say into whether they wanted to court each other, as well as how they wanted their courtship to proceed. I think this betrothal thing is coming from the Nakatsu side, and JB went along with it because he didn't have any objections.

I can buy that Boobchelle allows those who are courting to have some say in what they want to do. I think JD/Abbie was the most relaxed, partially because they were older. Even though they still waited for the wedding for their first kiss, they went unchaperoned, for example. I can also buy that the Nakatsus are more rigid than the Duggars. The common denominator will always lean more conservative it seems, so Boob will defer to Nakatsu's stauncher conservatism rather than Nakatsu relaxing and giving in to Boob.

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BetyBee

BetyBee

I guarandamntee that JimBob would never have participated in a Biblical Betrothal himself. No, he had to have the cheerleader he LUSTED after! It's appalling that he expects his son to go for this. I'm sure Jed got to see a picture of the very pretty Katey beforehand, maybe even met her once or twice at Big Sandy, but they don't know each other. I feel so sorry for this young woman.

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crazy8s

crazy8s

9 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

I guarandamntee that JimBob would never have participated in a Biblical Betrothal himself. No, he had to have the cheerleader he LUSTED after! It's appalling that he expects his son to go for this. I'm sure Jed got to see a picture of the very pretty Katey beforehand, maybe even met her once or twice at Big Sandy, but they don't know each other. I feel so sorry for this young woman.

they have certainly seen each other at Big Sandy. Surely they will live in the house behind the car lot/property management office. The Caldwells used to rent from JB but rumor has been they moved to a property Joe and Kendra own. Again Jed!'s LLC is the only unmarried to list an LLC address that is not the TTH and not listing Jimmy C. Burns as accountant

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satrunrose

satrunrose

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I hope I'm not running a foul of the politics rule, but I have to imagine that the reality that Jed! is an emotional baby with no real world experience who still shares a room with his brother came up on the campaign trail. So in true Duggar fashion they decided that, instead of fixing the actual problem by getting the kid a real job and or some formal education, what Jed! needs is a wife! That'll prove he's a real grown up politician! 

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crazy8s

crazy8s

This is overkill in correcting the idiotic plan to show Jed! and Jeer in the bachelor pad with their beds a foot apart. their sister's old beds no less.

Jed's comments were full of people commenting on his needing an accountability partner and sharing a room with his twin in a 3 bedroom house where another room had bunk beds.

a wife will end those comments. Why JB allowed that to be filmed and shown at a time most unbecoming un useful to Jed! is beyond me.

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Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45,

Discussing the charges against Jana is fine, but do not post any information that reveals her address/contact information- even if said documents are public (i.e. a part of court proceedings.)

Discussing charges against Jana is NOT a jumping off point to speculate on other instances abuse/neglect etc towards the M-children or to elaborate on Josh's conviction and potential victims.  

 

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