S10.E11: World Enough And Time

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Friendship drives the Doctor into the rashest decision of his life. Trapped on a giant spaceship, caught in the event horizon of a black hole, he witnesses the death of someone he is pledged to protect. Is there any way he can redeem his mistake? Are events already out of control? For once, time is the Time Lord's enemy.

[Occasional Hope]

The title obviously comes from Andrew Marvell's poem To His Coy Mistress.

[foreverevolving]

So the Master reveal took me by surprise, I knew he was coming but for some reason I thought he was gonna be one of the patients.

Also, did they move the airing time? didn't it used to be at 7:10 or something like that? I missed half the episode because of it. (granted I also haven't watched lived in a few weeks).

Bill turning into a cyberman was sad and wrong on so many levels! I was kind of hoping it be Nardole who gets the axe.

 

Looking forward to next week for the Missy and Master show. :-)

[HauntedBathroom]

Well, that was brilliant! Can't wait for next week. I was wondering if the snowscape from the opening scene might have been Mondas - or even the South Pole. That would be very Moffat, for the first Doctor of this new regeneration cycle to return to the location of his first regeneration.

[Beatriceblake]

I'll reserve judgement until next week but having the Doctor test Missy by sending her out with Nardole and Bill felt wildly out of character.

[alrightokay]

1 hour ago, Beatriceblake said:

I'll reserve judgement until next week but having the Doctor test Missy by sending her out with Nardole and Bill felt wildly out of character.

I totally agree--he seemed too trusting of her, given all their history.  And while the "mancrush"' reminiscing was sweet, Twelve isn't that sentimental of a Doctor, is he?  Another instance that felt out of character was when he ordered Nardole to explore with him so that Missy could go through the ship's computer logs (supposedly because she's more clever--to which Nardole replied "And more evil!").  Wouldn't the Doctor want the more clever/devious person next to him so that he could keep an eye on her?  It just felt like a convenient excuse to leave Missy alone so that the Master could reveal himself to her.  

I did enjoy the episode overall--I think Pearl did a fantastic job selling the mix of curiosity, horror, and hope she had to convey while Bill waited for the Doctor.  She's been excellent all series, able to create chemistry with everyone she interacts with, and I thought she and John Simm were really convincing as people who came to like each other while working and watching slo-mo tv together.  It made his betrayal of her even more heartbreaking.

I just wish that season/episode trailers hadn't revealed that Simm would be in this episode; I knew his reveal was coming, so the impact of that moment was blunted for me.  Still, I'm excited for next week--I can't wait to see Capaldi/Gomez/Simm in action.

[Avon.Blakes7]

Watching now and I'm as frustrated as ever with this Bill character! Her last breath will be a question! Is she 5 years old maybe in that body? Arrrggghhh! She won't be missed if Missy's taking her place! 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Avon.Blakes7

[Galileo908]

Now THAT was a cliffhanger. It's been a while since we've had a good old fashioned Master reveal. And here I thought John Simm was gonna be the surgeon or one of the patients. I'm really looking forward to next week now. I really, really hate the BBC for spoiling him AND the Mondas Cybermen returning, it would've made both reveals much more effective. Remember when they used to badly disguise Anthony Ainley's name to NOT spoil The Master appearing?

Speaking of next week, I wonder if it will reference The Tenth Planet at all.

4 hours ago, Beatriceblake said:

I'll reserve judgement until next week but having the Doctor test Missy by sending her out with Nardole and Bill felt wildly out of character.

Gonna agree with you there. I was wondering what the hell was wrong with him. He should know better! Bill did! And look where it got her!

EDIT: So where was John Simm between The End of Time and regenerating as Missy? Here? Will next week explain it? How did he figure out that he was looking at his future self? From watching her all that time?

Edited June 25, 2017 by Galileo908

[Lantern7]

"Okay. Are we ready for a rollicki-" "Let me guess. Bill's new friend is The Master (Simms recipe), and Bill becomes a Cyberman. Is there anything else?" "Ummmmmmm . . . "

I didn't go through spoiler sites, but I was able to see this coming. I mean, next week like probably be an epic mindfuck at worst, but this episode felt obvious. Also, part of me thinks that this is another simulation, because the Doctor wouldn't leave his friends with Missy. Well, not Bill, anyway. Nardole would be lucky, since he is more or less a Cyberman.

I'm aware that there was a Fifth Doctor audio -- "Spare Parts" -- that was supposed to be the origin of the Cyberman. I know that was pre-2005, though, but I'm curious if this story bumps that one off canon.

About time we had a meeting of Masters, though I know the other actors are either deceased, forgotten, or Eric Roberts. I liked reading a fan-made comic where the four known Masters get messed with by the Celestial Toymaker.

ETA: Am I a bad person for wanting a Cyber-ized Bill to have her hair sticking out of the headpiece?

[benteen]

I must say, that was a suitably epic episode.  Well done.

I suspected with about 15 minutes ago that Rezas was The Master but that was still a very cool old-school Master disguise.  Simm is great as always as the Master and Reza.  Loved seeing the origins of the Mondasian Cybermen and it was super creepy.  Liked Bill's story a lot.  Really great special effects on this and Rachel Talady is always the right choice to direct these season finales.  The shot of both Masters with Cyberman Bill at the end was awesome.

The Doctor comparing humans having only one heart to a budget cut was quite funny.

Not that this episode didn't have problems.  This was an awful episode for The Doctor.  The trust he puts in Missy is insane.  Missy once destroyed half the galaxy.  Missy kills whenever she feels like it.  Missy has never paid for her crimes.  When Missy was the John Simm Master, she once physically aged the Doctor 900 years and put him into a cage.  The Doctor/Missy relationship seems to have evolved into an abusive one now.  He got Bill killed being stupid about something he should have realized over 1500 years ago about Missy.  Also, how the hell didn't The Doctor instantly recognize the old-school Cybermen?  Bad, bad episode for him.

The opening scene with Missy as "Doctor Who" is another annoying scene.  Moffat and Missy aren't nearly as clever as Moffat thinks they are.  Jenna Coleman, Alex Kingston and Michelle Gomez are terrific actresses and Moffat made them all annoying on the show because he can't write for them.

Also, can't help but notice that the 12th Doctor's black friends all seem to end up being turned into Cybermen.  Just saying...

Edited June 25, 2017 by benteen

[Galileo908]

2 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

ETA: Am I a bad person for wanting a Cyber-ized Bill to have her hair sticking out of the headpiece?

You're not alone, I would've loved that.

[benteen]

3 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

About time we had a meeting of Masters, though I know the other actors are either deceased, forgotten, or Eric Roberts. I liked reading a fan-made comic where the four known Masters get messed with by the Celestial Toymaker.

I must admit, I rather liked the Eric Roberts Master.  I found him to be funny in an over-the-top way.  Roberts has actually been hitting the Doctor Who convention circuit over the past year or two.

It is sad though that almost all the original Masters are gone.  Geoffrey Beavers is still alive and well and does The Master for Big Finish.  Derek Jacobi is going to do The War Master for Big Finish as well and they have a Big Finish Master too.

Anyway, it's ridiculously exciting to see two Masters together in a Doctor Who episode.

[rur]

10 minutes ago, benteen said:

I must say, that was a suitably epic episode.  Well done.

If I were a kid, I definitely would have been watching this one from behind the couch.

[Avon.Blakes7]

33 minutes ago, Galileo908 said:

You're not alone, I would've loved that.

It would have been too comedic! Wait for parody on Benny Hill or something! ;-)

[Starchild]

That was pretty sad. Not just Bill's fate, but all those poor people in ignored pain.

[Avon.Blakes7]

1 minute ago, Starchild said:

That was pretty sad. Not just Bill's fate, but all those poor people in ignored pain.

We've seen it before in that alternate reality; the other genesis of Cybermen in a parallel universe in "Rise of the Cybermen!" Didn't the alternate Mom of Rose feel, cry; esp. after seeing her reflection after the conversion?

[Avon.Blakes7]

27 minutes ago, 17wheatthins said:

I forgot about that! At first I thought the nurse was adjusting that patient's medication. :-(

SO Bill was just as unsympathetic as the nurse by turning the volume down on those 2 candidates who were further along! Unfortunately, because of the time discrepancy, like Amy, "she waited" too long for The Doctor! Sad, but it was inevitable! No companion finds trouble faster and with more consequences to the well being of human kind than Bill! Any sympathy for her character faded when she turned over the Earth to The Monks so she could selfishly hold onto the Doctor! 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Avon.Blakes7

[Enigma X]

I, for one, like Bill and can do without the Master (and Daleks and Cyberman, for what it is worth) in any incarnation. I really hope this is not the end of Bill. I agree that keeping Simm's and the Cybermen's appearance under wraps would have had a better "wow" factor. I enjoyed this episode more than the last two though.

[Avon.Blakes7]

8 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I, for one, like Bill and can do without the Master (and Daleks and Cyberman, for what it is worth) in any incarnation. I really hope this is not the end of Bill. I agree that keeping Simm's and the Cybermen's appearance under wraps would have had a better "wow" factor. I enjoyed this episode more than the last two though.

In the past, I've been the biggest fan of "multi-Doctor" episodes; "The 3 Doctors" & "The 5 Doctors" all time faves! "The Two Doctors" get an honorable mention with the role of Chessenne played by "Blake's 7" villain, Servalan (Jacqueline Pearce)! Why not have a "multi-Master" offering? Seems to be good episode so far; can't wait for the finale next week! 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Avon.Blakes7

[Primetimer]

But is the current Doctor's antepenultimate episode anticlimactic?

View the full article

[The Companion]

I loved this episode. It was all the things I love about Doctor Who, particularly because I am a sucker for episodes where they run around on spaceships. I am so sad about Bill, though it is Doctor Who, where death is not necessarily final. 

[HouseofBeck]

1 hour ago, Avon.Blakes7 said:

SO Bill was just as unsympathetic as the nurse by turning the volume down on those 2 candidates who were further along! Unfortunately, because of the time discrepancy, like Amy, "she waited" too long for The Doctor! Sad, but it was inevitable! No companion finds trouble faster and with more consequences to the well being of human kind than Bill! Any sympathy for her character faded when she turned over the Earth to The Monks so she could selfishly hold onto the Doctor! 

I did think Bill was only turning down the pain volume because that would have brought the nurse back, and also because she didn't know what to do for them anyway. Her face and words conveyed her distress.

[Enigma X]

I am confused on why future Master/Missy did not recognize past Master but past Master knew who future Master/Missy was. The disguise should not make a difference. I would assume creating the Cyberman was a big deal. Enough to remember details.

[Avon.Blakes7]

2 minutes ago, 17wheatthins said:

That's what I got from that scene. And didn't she apologize to the patient while she was turning it down? 

It's Bill's inquisitive nature that "frosts my cake!" Why would anyone touch equipment like that anyway? In this scene, instead of being able to ask 1000 questions, she wanders about the hospital, not knowing what might happen waiting for the Doctor! She drives me to distraction and won't miss her if The Doctor's unable to reverse this and bring Bill back!

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, foreverevolving said:

So the Master reveal took me by surprise, I knew he was coming but for some reason I thought he was gonna be one of the patients.

Me too. I didn't realize until he crept up on Missy when she was at the console. 

23 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I am confused on why future Master/Missy did not recognize past Master but past Master knew who future Master/Missy was.

To be fair, the Master before the reveal, did say, 'how did you not know', so, timey, whimey I guess. Which means the regen from Jon Simm to Missy must have been jarring. 

I did really like the concept of the ship at the black hole and the time dilation. Why not that be just an episode though? Everything has to be a thing with Moffat. 

[gatopretoNYC]

John Simm was a surprise to me, which was great. But Bill! I really like her. I hope she can be brought back somehow. I will really miss Capaldi.

[John Potts]

5 hours ago, benteen said:

I suspected with about 15 minutes ago that Rezas was The Master but that was still a very cool old-school Master disguise

It was a rather pointless disguise: it was obviously a mask, so there was probably going to be a reveal of who it was, and given it had been widely leaked that John Simm was coming back, it wasn't hard to put 2 & 2 together. I guess we could call it a throwback to Classic Who when he'd go around calling himself Lemaitre (or something similar). 

6 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

About time we had a meeting of Masters, though I know the other actors are either deceased, forgotten, or Eric Roberts

I did quite like some of the framing we got (which may have been from the previews?) where we got The Doctor and The Master as the Angel & Devil on Missy's shoulders (though I wouldn't take any bets on who'd win THAT contest). Eric Roberts [shudder] - actually, that's unfair on him, he wasn't too bad, it's just that episode/special was awful and made pointless changes to the character of the Doctor to make it easier to get the Fox to reboot the series (that was obviously a storming success!).

As for the episode itself, I'm thoroughly tired of Moffat killing off people only to have them miraculously survive. Death has become so cheap that it barely has any impact. I'm pretty sure she'll get de-cyberfied, too (though at least Pearl Mackie didn't have to wear the Cyber-bikini we got on Torchwood). OTOH, I did quite like the actual science of having time dilation effects of being near a Black Hole (OK, the ship would have torn itself apart if the time flow was that radically different, but I appreciate the Handwave at Relativity).

[Lokiberry]

4 hours ago, 17wheatthins said:

I understand what you're saying. Bill has been a polarizing companion from the beginning. I guess if I wasn't so charmed by her I'd also see her touching the equipment as problematic, but I really like the character, so it didn't even occur to me. However, if it had been Clara, I'd be completely incensed. I guess it goes to show how much our personal opinions can color our reactions :-)

ETA: and I love the phrase "frosts my cake". I'm going to be using that going forward, if you don't mind. :-)

Clara was polarizing; I've seen almost overwhelming support for Bill. She touched the equipment after the nurse left, because she saw the knob at the top of the "IV" said volume, and the patient continued to behave  the same way after it was adjusted as before when he was complaining about pain. When she saw that volume meant how much noise the patient could make, not how much painkiller he was receiving, she checked someone else and found the same thing. She apologized profusely, and turned the volume back down because there was nothing she could do to help and she was in a vulnerable condition and needed to avoid being caught.

[clack]

I know people have objected to Moffat's 2 previous companions, Amy and Clara, for being as much plot puzzles as they are characters. But, it was their mystery aspects that made sense of the Doctor's continued involvement with them. They were companions, initially anyway, because the Doctor needed to "solve" them. Amy and Clara were, in a way, destined to be companions.

But look at Bill's arc: an intelligent and capable young woman so lacking in confidence that, rather than attending uni as a student, she instead works in the school's cafeteria. The Doctor notices her, gets her enrolled, helps her when she involves herself in an adventure with an alien, and gives her self-confidence. So far, so good.

But then the Doctor adopts her as a companion, repeatedly taking her away from her studies and her job in order to plunge her into dangerous situations, her life continually put at risk, until her luck finally runs out and she dies. 

What is the Doctor's thinking here? Why does he need Bill, specifically? Wouldn't Nardole suffice? And it's not as if past companions haven't gotten killed, either. The Doctor knows it's a possibility.

It's weird that Moffat doesn't address this. It's as if James Bond meets some random person and invites her along on a highly dangerous mission, without that person having any specific experience or expertise.

[benteen]

I like Bill a lot.  I just wish she would have been introduced last season.  To me, the Capaldi era was undone by one thing...Moffat.  He should have left after the 11th Doctor's regeneration and pairing 12 with Clara resulted in a very toxic relationship between the two characters.

At least he writes Bill well.  To me, he made Clara, River and Missy all annoying.

If Bill does last one season (which is looking increasingly likely) to met that is not nearly enough time to flesh her out as a character.  She never really had that big moment as a companion (I guess the end of the Monk arc might count as it).

While I do like multiple companions with no prior relationship on the TARDIS, I think Nardole's presence cut into Bill's time with the Doctor and lessened the Doctor's need for her.

Edited June 25, 2017 by benteen

[KirkB]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

While I do like multiple companions with no prior relationship on the TARDIS, I think Nardole's presence cut into Bill's time with the Doctor and lessened the Doctor's need for her.

See, I think this is one of my biggest issues with this season. Don't get me wrong, I like Matt Lucas, and Nardole hasn't been quite as annoying as I expected, but for the life of me I still don't understand why he's even here. He doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than scolding the Doctor for abandoning his post and yet enough attention has been paid to him that I think it takes away from Bill's story. And a new companion's introduction to the Doctor, the TARDIS, and all of time and space is supposed to be a big part of the season.

Speaking of Bill, even if they find a way to uncyberize her  (I'm kind of fifty fifty on that, since Capaldi's and Moffat's end might also be hers) I'd be a bit surprised if she stayed with the Doctor after this. Not just being turned into a Cyberman, which is bad enough, but she put her trust in the Doctor and he basically abandoned her, since he knew full well time passed much faster for her and still didn't seem to get in any hurry to save her. In fact, if you left the Cybermen out of it an interesting way for Bill to leave the show would have been for the Doctor to finally get to her location only to discover she had met someone, started a new family, grown old and died.

And now, the Master. I knew John Simm was coming. I have been doing my best to avoid spoilers but I saw a post on Facebook a while back that said he might be showing up in this episode instead of the finale, so I kind of had my eye out. I didn't peg the guy with Bill as him at first, but the more he talked I started to think his voice and his mannerisms seemed familiar, and I was fairly certain it was Simm by about halfway through the episode. Still, the reveal itself was well done, and I get a kick out of actors enjoying themselves, which Simm clearly does. Though I do have to wonder, since this was her past incarnation, why did Missy NOT remember having been here? I can forgive her not realizing the guy was her past self, she never saw him until that moment, but I would think she would remember having been on this ship and helping to create the Cybermen. Maybe that will be explained, though I doubt it.

I'm quite looking forward to next week. I can't wait to see Simm and Gomez play off one another.

[Dave in Chicago]

I'm always a bit baffled by episodes that are all set-up; this one was particularly low on action. Bill: gets shot, is taken away, explores a bit, mostly waits Missy: supposed to be tested, is interrupted almost immediately, stays oddly silent at a console. The Doctor: sets up a test, gets interrupted, gives a short expository speech, then takes an elevator. It's an episode where nobody really does anything, but things happen *to* them instead. The classic series could be guilty of this as well, but that is some sloooooow world building.

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, KirkB said:

Speaking of Bill, even if they find a way to uncyberize her  (I'm kind of fifty fifty on that, since Capaldi's and Moffat's end might also be hers) I'd be a bit surprised if she stayed with the Doctor after this. Not just being turned into a Cyberman, which is bad enough, but she put her trust in the Doctor and he basically abandoned her, since he knew full well time passed much faster for her and still didn't seem to get in any hurry to save her.

I think it was only about 15 minutes or so for the Doctor between the time she was shot and the time he finally found her as a Cyberman, wasn't it? I wouldn't call that abandonment. 

[KirkB]

24 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I think it was only about 15 minutes or so for the Doctor between the time she was shot and the time he finally found her as a Cyberman, wasn't it? I wouldn't call that abandonment. 

Time, in this instance particularly, is relative. It might have been less than half an hour the Doctor (I'm actually not sure of the exact ratio between where he was and where she was) but it was a hell of a lot longer than that for Bill. She had the Doctor saying in her head "wait for me" which...by the way, what else was she supposed to do? Anyway, she put her trust in him and waited, and waited, always believing he was going to save her, because that is what the Doctor does, right up to, and probably still including, the point where they dragged her into a room and started turning her into a monster, and even then she must have hoped he would show up in the nick of time. Whatever is left of Bill in the Cyberman probably feels abandoned and betrayed.

[benteen]

3 hours ago, KirkB said:

See, I think this is one of my biggest issues with this season. Don't get me wrong, I like Matt Lucas, and Nardole hasn't been quite as annoying as I expected, but for the life of me I still don't understand why he's even here. He doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than scolding the Doctor for abandoning his post and yet enough attention has been paid to him that I think it takes away from Bill's story. And a new companion's introduction to the Doctor, the TARDIS, and all of time and space is supposed to be a big part of the season.

Agreed.  I was at NYCC Doctor Who panel last October and Matt Lucas was really, really funny in person.  I wish he'd been allowed to bring some of that humor to Nardole.

The problem with Nardole is he makes Bill less and less essential to the Doctor.  He knows how to pilot the TARDIS, which most companions don't know how to do.  He knows a lot of the Doctor's secrets and can be a confidant to him, lessening the need for Bill.  It's felt like he has contributed more to the actual missions than Bill has.  Moffat's insistence with bringing him on for more and more episodes has undercut Bill.

Edited June 25, 2017 by benteen

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, KirkB said:

Time, in this instance particularly, is relative. It might have been less than half an hour the Doctor (I'm actually not sure of the exact ratio between where he was and where she was) but it was a hell of a lot longer than that for Bill. She had the Doctor saying in her head "wait for me" which...by the way, what else was she supposed to do? Anyway, she put her trust in him and waited, and waited, always believing he was going to save her, because that is what the Doctor does, right up to, and probably still including, the point where they dragged her into a room and started turning her into a monster, and even then she must have hoped he would show up in the nick of time. Whatever is left of Bill in the Cyberman probably feels abandoned and betrayed.

Yes but my point was, how much faster could he have gone?

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, clack said:

I know people have objected to Moffat's 2 previous companions, Amy and Clara, for being as much plot puzzles as they are characters.

I don't know about Amy. Eleven said she was the first person he met after what wasn't a great regeneration. Granted, it grew from there. It didn't really have to. 

[Lokiberry]

5 hours ago, ganesh said:

I don't know about Amy. Eleven said she was the first person he met after what wasn't a great regeneration. Granted, it grew from there. It didn't really have to. 

Eleven genuinely bonded with little Amelia, and it only seemed to get stronger with grown up Amy. I've always felt that Amy was like Susan come again to him, which makes it so poignant when he begs her so hard to stay with him when the Angels trap Rory in the past. The First Doctor locked Susan out of the TARDIS with only one shoe because he knew that she wanted to be with David, but was unwilling to leave him. All the years  and loss later, and he begs Amy not to join her husband, and the father of her child, because he couldn't bare the loneliness.

As for Clara, she was just some girl with a mystery  about her, there was never any kind of emotional connection. When he solved that mystery and regenerated into an older man, with a little snow on the roof, she started treating him with contempt; as basically her taxi driver, who's job it was to ferry her around time and space and provide her with adventures. Instead of chucking her out of the TARDIS as any of his past incarnations would have done, he became weirdly obsessed with her. It was all nonsensical and kind of gross.

Bill has been the very picture of a classic companion. The Doctor meets her and she gets involved in the strangeness that follows him around. He takes a liking to her and invites to go on more adventures with him. I've found it really refreshing, and I'm sorry that it seems like this is the end for her (hopefully not because of death or permanent cyberization). I hope Chibnall remembers that not every companion needs to be the most important girl in the universe, or the most mysterious; and that the show worked just fine when the Doctor would meet someone, they'd become friends and go off traveling the universe in the TARDIS.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Lokiberry

[Suzysite]

Quote

Why does he need Bill, specifically? Wouldn't Nardole suffice? 

Well, according to Missy they are Exposition and Comic Relief.    Or perhaps snacks.   

[jhlipton]

I'm so glad I don't watch previews -- I had no clue about the Master or the Cybermen!

On 6/24/2017 at 5:38 PM, Beatriceblake said:

I'll reserve judgement until next week but having the Doctor test Missy by sending her out with Nardole and Bill felt wildly out of character.

I agree - he should have sent her on a mission where all the factors were known.  Less chance for mischief that way.

10 hours ago, clack said:

It's as if James Bond meets some random person and invites her along on a highly dangerous mission, without that person having any specific experience or expertise.

It's not like Bond didn't get random people killed -- just ask Jill or Tilly Masterson... oh, that's right, you can't!

[Florinaldo]

Each of this season's episodes has made me a little sadder. Not because it was bad or an overall waste. On the contrary, I enjoyed it greatly, including the references to Classic Who, like the picture of Susan on the desk, Alpha Centauri's cameo, a whole bunch of Ice Warriors instead of a lone one in a sub (with also a nod to "Tomb of the Cybermen" which features a very similar sleeping chamber). It's too bad that the latter got saddled with that hoary SF cliché, a Queen for their alien race, but at least it was not as absurd a concept as the Borg Queen.

No, what makes me sad it that we are coming ever so closer to Capaldi's departure after the next Christmas special, who quickly became one of my three favourite actors in the role, but who was saddled for a long time with that narrative phagocyte, Clara; episodes in which she was less present or separate from the Doctor allowed PC to shine and he really came into his own this season and last Christmas.

Last week's trailer had spoiled the return of the Master's previous incarnation so I was keeping an eye out for him and could not decide if the attendant Bill befriends was indeed him under that heavy make-up; I kept going back and forth because JS did an excellent job of masking his usual voice and inflexions. The disguise was an amusing call-back to the old Master's inclination towards disguises on Classic Who.

So Missy and the Master can coexist together. I guess the Blinovitch Limitation Effect is truly for the dustbin of history, although it always seemed that Time Lords were immune to it despite the Doctor's dire warnings to to contrary and only the poor Brigadier was really shown to suffer its effects.

We also get back the very first incarnation of the Cybermen; they certainly are much creepier than the lastest version who are basically just lead-footed big robots. But these are still very close to their original nature; there is flesh under those wrappings and the human creature can be glimpsed through them, especially while the process of conversion is underway. I do not know if SM listened recently to the Big Finish audio drama "Spare Parts" which features the origin of Cybermen on Mondas, but there are definite similarities in tone and content.

I will also be sorry to say goodbye to the Tardis crew we have now; I find the dynamics well balanced and they allow for an interplay that serves both the storytelling and the characters. Bill is still the wide-eyed assertive newbie, while Nardole has travelled to a lot of planets and is more of the Doctor's world than the former can be; he certainly is not the Doctor's equal, but he can chide him if necessary when he falters in his mission to guard Missy, acting as a sort of Jiminy Cricket. I expect him to be gone soon, but I do not really believe that Bill will stay in her Cyberman state permanently so she may stay around for the next Doctor.

The addition of Missy to the Tardis raises some interesting possibilities: will she remain faithful to her newfound tentative compassion and even sacrifice herself for her new allies, or will she revert to her evil character?

The time distortion premise of that long spaceship was not completely convincing, but the one true false note of the episode was the "Doctor Who?" banter at the beginning; it was not even remotely as witty as SM must have figured it would come across.

So mixed feelings in expectation of next week: it has to deliver quite a punch, but it will be PC's last bow during a regular season. There is no guarantee that SM, who is usually much better at coming up with clever concepts than in following up with a satisfying execution, will be able to pull it off, but I choose to be hopeful.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Florinaldo

[LiveenLetLive]

6 hours ago, Lokiberry said:

 I hope Chibnall remembers that not every companion needs to be the most important girl in the universe, or the most mysterious; and that the show worked just fine when the Doctor would meet someone, they'd become friends and go off traveling the universe in the TARDIS.

or be a beautiful young straight woman with romantic possibilities with the Doctor...

[catrox14]

I don't know what to think about this episode. It was good but I'm really upset about Bill. I'm waiting until next week to see what happens. Bill has one been of the best companions IMO since Donna. (Sorry not a Amy Pond liker).  

I just think she deserves so much better than to be turned into a Cyberman.

That said, I squealed when John Simm's Master was revealed. I just need to understand how he's alive.

I'm also still bummed that Capaldi is leaving. I feel like he just hit his stride as soon as the albatross of Clara was off his back.

Edited June 26, 2017 by catrox14

[Avon.Blakes7]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I don't know what to think about this episode. It was good but I'm really upset about Bill. I'm waiting until next week to see what happens. Bill has one of the best companions IMO since Donna. (Sorry not a Amy Pond liker).  

I just think she deserves so much better than to be turned into a Cybermen.

That said, I squealed when John Simm's Master was revealed. I just need to understand how he's alive.

The Master spends half his time trying to gain control of the universe and the other half setting up ways to continue his life; even if he has to establish a religion! 

[catrox14]

Just now, Avon.Blakes7 said:

The Master spends half his time trying to gain control of the universe and the other half setting up ways to continue his life; even if he has to establish a religion! 

Oh I know. I'm talking about how he could either be alive or have escaped from Gallifrey after being locked away in the End of Time.

[hnygrl]

I'm taking it for granted that the male Master is a Mondasian Master thus not "real."  That's how I'm dealing with that  until I have to accept that there are two of them.

I'm also holding out hope there is going to be some kind of deus ex machina to save/un-cyber Bill.

Really don't want Pearl Mackie to be another one-and-done companion. I'm just getting used to her and she's GONE? And we not only have to get used to another Doctor but another Companion as well?

Well that just sucks. That just freaking sucks. Did NOT like that ending, so I'm holding out hope the finale/christmas special will turn it around

But this is Moffatt, and the dude who plays Nardole (forgot his name) says this is it for him too. Guess my heart's getting broken again, huh?\

It's only been 24 hours. I'm not over it yet. Maybe after I watch it again...

[Llywela]

53 minutes ago, hnygrl said:

I'm taking it for granted that the male Master is a Mondasian Master thus not "real."  That's how I'm dealing with that  until I have to accept that there are two of them.

But Mondas isn't another universe, it's just another planet, Earth's twin. There can't be a 'Mondasian' Master; the Master is Gallifreyan.  This is actually very typical of the character - you think you've seen the last of him, and then he pops up again. As for how he got out of the time lock, well, a) we already knew he'd got out somehow, because that's the only way Missy could be running around the universe, and b) the whole of Gallifrey is also out of there now, isn't it - wasn't that the takeaway from the end of last season.

[FiveByFive]

21 hours ago, KirkB said:

I'd be a bit surprised if she stayed with the Doctor after this. Not just being turned into a Cyberman, which is bad enough, but she put her trust in the Doctor and he basically abandoned her, since he knew full well time passed much faster for her and still didn't seem to get in any hurry to save her.

They had this discussion before going on this adventure. 

Bill: She [Missy] scares me. Like, she really scares me. Okay? Just promise me one thing, yeah? Just promise you won't get me killed.
The Doctor: I can't promise you that.
Bill: Thanks.
The Doctor: I mean, look, you're human and humans are so boring.
Bill: Cheers.
The Doctor: I mean, you pop like balloons. I mean, one heart, it's your most important organ and you have no backup. It's like a budget cut.
Bill: Will you try & keep me alive?
The Doctor: Within reason.
Bill: Thanks, mate.

So she can't very well go on and be truly upset with him when he warned her this could happen. She always had the power to say, "no." This isn't a job and she isn't being paid.  Martha Jones remains one of the only new series companions that said no to going on an adventure & stuck with it. First, she did when she left the series to resume her normal life.  The second time was when she came back to the series as a professional on Earth and was annoyed that she got dragged on an adventure by the Tardis when she didn't want to go again. (I'd add in passing she seemed to be happy with her life BEFORE the Doctor arrived which made her different from Rose and everyone else after her.)

Also the Doctor was moving as fast as he could. Unfortunately the time at the bottom of the ship moved much faster.  The interesting part is, while Bill was watching him "slowly" try to find her upstairs, she didn't seem upset with him. 

21 hours ago, KirkB said:

In fact, if you left the Cybermen out of it an interesting way for Bill to leave the show would have been for the Doctor to finally get to her location only to discover she had met someone, started a new family, grown old and died.

Very Amelia Pond 2.0. My ending for Bill has always been her finishing University then becoming a teacher herself. That, to me, would be full circle for her. Hopefully she'll be around after Moffat with Chibnall to be able to do that. (Although I still have no clue how she'll survive this.)

[darkestboy]

Now this felt like business. Easily the best episode this series so I hope the next one doesn't drop the ball.

The opening scene, I loved it. Now I get that they'll be handling this regeneration differently.

Bill's conversion into the first Cyberman was horrifying but effectively done. The last scene though.

This episode really captured the body horror aspects of Cybermen in the longest of times.

Missy trying to be good was amusing. Loved the meta commentary on the Doctor Who name. Loved her scenes with the Master too.

The Master's disguise as Razor wasn't convincing but it was delightful. Loved his scenes with Bill.

Twelve and Nardole felt a little underused but their scenes were good.

The Mondas reveal too I loved, 10/10

[tankgirl73]

Quote

The Doctor: I mean, look, you're human and humans are so boring.

I'm quite sure he said "mortal", not "boring".