Seasons 1 and 2 Discussion

[catrice2]

I am so bored by this season.   I do not even know what creepy does for a living..but if it is anything tech related then they should expect he would be watching and listening ....and he gave it away at the dinner. Therefore I cannot understand why V is talking out loud to Eve and I am not entertained by her being turned on by V.  It is almost like the fact that she killed Bill didn't happen for Eve. 

Also there is no way V can keep pretending with this guy and would not have already snapped on him. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

It's spelled Worcestershire, but pronounced properly the way they did on the show. 

Wos-ter- sheer (that's as close as I'm getting to the phonics today) is the proper pronunciation, but I've heard it pronounced the way it's spelled too. 

I never liked poachers, so Gemma is not a big loss to me.  However, it will end the Niko era, or will he get arrested for killing her?      They better let V. kill Aaron off this Sunday.     

Edited May 21, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[stealinghome]

9 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I never liked poachers, so Gemma is not a big loss to me.  However, it will end the Niko era, or will he get arrested for killing her?      They better let V. kill Aaron off this Sunday.    

I'm for whichever gets Niko off our screens permanently. He is not nearly as interesting as the show seems to believe he is, and his being around has massively hindered Eve's character arc this season.

Quote

Therefore I cannot understand why V is talking out loud to Eve

Wasn't Villanelle using her (admittedly rather spotty) American accent while talking to Eve in bed? I assumed it was so a spying Aaron could assume she was talking to him.

Quote

If Carolyn is part of The Twelve, then they may want both V and Eve dead. So, they complete the mission by finding out who the potential buyers are of the super surveillance app/program and can arrest Aaron. At that point, both V and Eve are expendable. As someone else mentioned upthread, The Twelve plot has not been mentioned since V and Konstantin struck out on their own. 

It's also possible that the Twelve don't necessarily WANT Eve and V dead, per se, but consider them expendable bait. It wouldn't surprise me at all if, once V and Eve get the information Carolyn wants, she leaves them in a tight scrape instead of providing backup or aid of some kind.

There's also the question of where Konstantin stands, and whether his endgame is the same as Carolyn's. I wonder whether Eve will wind up wishing she had let Konstantin come to Rome with them.

[Ohwell]

8 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

I'm for whichever gets Niko off our screens permanently. He is not nearly as interesting as the show seems to believe he is, and his being around has massively hindered Eve's character arc this season.

I think he's a lot more interesting than Eve.  All she does is have that confused, bumbling look on her face.

But hey, differing opinions and all that. 😊

[ams1001]

19 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If I were Villanelle, I would have demanded more specifics from him. All he gave her was a shopping list, not an actual recipe!

Ha! I was thinking the same thing! I still couldn't make a Shepherd's pie (or whatever it actually is) from that!

[TimWil]

Eve’s voicemail messages to Villanelle annoyed me. They were so casual. They might as well have been something like “Hey, Villanelle, let’s grab a coffee together after spin class.”

[ams1001]

8 minutes ago, TimWil said:

Eve’s voicemail messages to Villanelle annoyed me. They were so casual. They might as well have been something like “Hey, Villanelle, let’s grab a coffee together after spin class.”

Me too. I was like, "You know damn well she's not going to call you back."

[12catcrazy]

12 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Me too. I was like, "You know damn well she's not going to call you back."

I think it conveyed that Eve was really worried about V but was trying so hard to sound casual when she felt anything but.  

[Loandbehold]

43 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

I think it conveyed that Eve was really worried about V but was trying so hard to sound casual when she felt anything but.  

Yep, nothing says "casual" like leaving 12 messages in a three-hour period.

[ruby24]

This is a minor thing, but it bugged the shit out of me. Apparently Aaron Peele is an idiot who doesn't know how birth control works. If she really was on the pill, yes, she'd need it every day whether she's having sex or not. He would have screwed up her cycle.

Are there a lot of men who think that it's like Viagra- you only take it when you're going to have sex?

Edited May 21, 2019 by ruby24

[seacliffsal]

This season isn't as interesting to me as last season.  Last season it was all about the chase and trying to anticipate next moves.  This season it's all about Eve's obsession with Villanealle which just isn't that interesting to me.  Eve has actually become very boring to me.  And, she's forgetting all about Bill.

What I really didn't like about this episode though was the power differential at play when Eve basically demanded that Noah have sex with her.  Yes, he had been interested in her, but Eve was very much an aggressor in that situation.  I'm female so I know it's a potential issue with a man being aggressive towards a female who is in a lower position; however, it bothers me just as much with the gender roles reversed.  It's sexual harassment no matter the genders.  

[kieyra]

Noah? Isn’t his name Hugo? Poor guy.

I didn’t realize he and Eve weren’t at the same “agent” level, for what it’s worth. 

[walnutqueen]

21 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I think he's a lot more interesting than Eve.  All she does is have that confused, bumbling look on her face.

But hey, differing opinions and all that. 😊

Judging from everything else I've seen her in, that's just her face.  ;~)

[Rickster]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

This season isn't as interesting to me as last season.  Last season it was all about the chase and trying to anticipate next moves.  This season it's all about Eve's obsession with Villanealle which just isn't that interesting to me.  Eve has actually become very boring to me.  And, she's forgetting all about Bill.

I think this season is a complete mess compared to the last one, especially after they started working with Villanelle. All its got going for it is the ability to surprise us with unconventional actions, whether they make sense, or usually not.

[catrice2]

Yes, Unfortunately I am liking Eve less and less with each episode.  I always liked the supporting characters and V more than Eve anyway....and unpopular opinion I actually don't mind the husband.  When they moved the story to Eve being sexually excited by V or the things that she does and says, and away from her wanting to get justice for her victims they lost me.  To top it off they changed teams this year.  Her team last year was part of the fun and I will forever think they made a mistake killing Bill 

[Irlandesa]

14 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

To top it off they changed teams this year.  Her team last year was part of the fun and I will forever think they made a mistake killing Bill 

Yep.  I think the drop in quality this season has largely been due to the fact that Phoebe WB isn't hands-on this season (and loyalty to her is the primary reason I'm even sticking with this season) but the biggest mistake the show made was killing Bill.  And she did that.  He was the one person who I felt kept Eve grounded.  He was her touchstone. 

Niko could have been that but he's not.  And it's why I don't think he's impeding her arc.  I can't think of anything that she has not done because of Niko. 

[stealinghome]

5 hours ago, ruby24 said:

This is a minor thing, but it bugged the shit out of me. Apparently Aaron Peele is an idiot who doesn't know how birth control works. If she really was on the pill, yes, she'd need it every day whether she's having sex or not. He would have screwed up her cycle.

Are there a lot of men who think that it's like Viagra- you only take it when you're going to have sex?

Oh, I think Aaron knows about how birth control works, I just think he doesn't give a rat's ass about Billie's health. If anything, I suspect he actually gets off on the idea that he's messing around with Billie's body and denying her something she needs. That seems very in-character.

1 hour ago, Rickster said:

I think this season is a complete mess compared to the last one, especially after they started working with Villanelle. All its got going for it is the ability to surprise us with unconventional actions, whether they make sense, or usually not.

I agree, this season has been really poorly structured. Last season had its pacing problems, but it also had the built-in structure (and tension) of Eve chasing Villanelle. This season has had some good moments, but the structure and pacing have just been all over the place, and the characters are not asking some VERY OBVIOUS questions they should be asking because the writers are trying to keep a lot of information hidden from the audience. But at this point, too much has remained hidden--the writers haven't laid the bread crumbs, as it were, to get to where they want to go at the end (or at least where I suspect they want to go).

In retrospect, handing the show over to a novice showrunner this season was not the best idea. It looks like the showrunner for Season 3 is another novice, which imo doesn't bode well (though to be fair, it looks like she's got more TV experience).

Quote

To top it off they changed teams this year.  Her team last year was part of the fun and I will forever think they made a mistake killing Bill  

I agree that the team this year is just not interesting and can't hold a candle to last year's team, but while I really really liked Bill, imo they couldn't have told the story of Eve's obsession with Villanelle with him in the picture.

[nameless slob]

22 hours ago, stealinghome said:

It looks like the showrunner for Season 3 is another novice, which imo doesn't bode well (though to be fair, it looks like she's got more TV experience).

Phoebe won't be envolved in season 3!? Really!?!? I thought she took a step back in season 2 because of Fleabag (amazing, btw), but she would be involved in season 3 just as much as she was in season 1... 

[stealinghome]

12 minutes ago, nameless slob said:

Phoebe won't be envolved in season 3!? Really!?!? I thought she took a step back in season 2 because of Fleabag (amazing, btw), but she would be involved in season 3 just as much as she was in season 1... 

Not according to this article on the renewal. It sounds like PWB is going to be more hands-off Killing Eve pretty permanently (maybe coming back to run the final season? Maybe?).

I don't watch Fear the Walking Dead--does anyone have any impression of the new showrunner from it?

This is also an interesting little article.

[dubbel zout]

The VF article (the second one @stealinghome linked) makes it sound as if Waller-Bridge planned from the start not to be as involved in any seasons after the first.

[kieyra]

Oh god. Why is Fear The Walking Dead being mentioned? Someone please tell me that PWB is not involved in that franchise somehow. Please. 

[tennisgurl]

Eve really did sound like she was just planning a trip to the mall with one of her gal pals when she sent that message to Villanelle (well, one of her many possible messages!), it was kind of hilarious. Like, did she full stop forget that Villanelle is a crazed psychopath? Well, with Nikos new girlfriend getting horribly killed, she is about to get reminded very quickly. 

Eve is becoming so unlikable, its hurting my enjoyment of the show. Eve has always been flawed, and last season that was a part of her charm, but now her obsession with Villanelle, even knowing what all she has done, is making her more and more awful. Sacking poor Kenny was not only mean to someone who she was at least somewhat friends with, it was just professionally stupid, and only happened because he called her out on her bullshit. Just like they said in the episode, they need a good computer guy! And I found her behavior with Noah to be really creepy, just jumping on top of him while he was half asleep, basically announcing that they will be having sex now, because hearing Villanelle makes her hot, and then just blowing him off in the morning. Its not only horribly unprofessional, its just cringy and came off as aggressive. And yes, I would say the same thing no matter the genders, it was just a weird creepy moment, and not in an interesting way. 

I do kind of laugh at how Villanelle somehow seems to find herself stuck with people that are just as, if not even more crazy than she is. Watching her interact with these creepy dudes who have no idea who they are actually dealing with just about captures that charm that this show has at its best. The last few episodes this season has been really off, but Villanelle is still always entertaining.

[kieyra]

Ok. I feel like I’m missing some inside joke. Who is Noah?

Isn’t this the guy she slept with?

http://www.bbcamerica.com/shows/killing-eve/cast-crew/hugo

[slf]

13 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Not according to this article on the renewal. It sounds like PWB is going to be more hands-off Killing Eve pretty permanently (maybe coming back to run the final season? Maybe?).

I don't watch Fear the Walking Dead--does anyone have any impression of the new showrunner from it?

This is also an interesting little article.

That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. (For those who watch FTWD, she was heavily involved in the season at the ranch. For those who don't watch that show, that season was Yikes.)

This season of KE has felt disjointed to me but I've still enjoyed it more than practically everything else on tv so far this year.

Edited May 23, 2019 by slf

[dubbel zout]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Eve really did sound like she was just planning a trip to the mall with one of her gal pals when she sent that message to Villanelle (well, one of her many possible messages!), it was kind of hilarious.

Was part of that in case Aaron heard them? He's proven he can hack into anything. 

[Ailianna]

10 hours ago, kieyra said:

Ok. I feel like I’m missing some inside joke. Who is Noah?

Isn’t this the guy she slept with?

http://www.bbcamerica.com/shows/killing-eve/cast-crew/hugo

There is no "Noah."  Another poster just keeps calling Hugo that.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Closer look: new faces

2.7 clip

Letting go

Edited May 25, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

S2.E8: You're Mine

Quote

Eve's mission is disastrously compromised; Carolyn briefs Eve on her current status as an employee of the British government and leaves Eve's future in her own hands; Villanelle does everything she can in order to get to her ultimate target.

Promo:

Promo 2:

You can watch the first scene here!

Original air date: 5/26/19

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Hugo: I got you a coffee, Mrs. Robinson.
Eve: Just call Jess and let her know how we're doing.
Hugo: How much detail would you like me to go into?

Eve: Omigawd, you're alive!
Hugo: I played dead. A hero's technique.
Eve: Villanelle used the safe word.
Hugo: It's a bit late for that.

Villanelle: What a dick.

Eve: You are such an asshole.
Villanelle: It's not my fault you're dressed as a maid. You look cute, by the way.

Villanelle: If I get shot, I want you to remember that it is your fault. For my funeral, make sure they choose a flattering photo, not a mugshot with a bandana.
Eve: Flattering funeral photo. Got it.

Eve: You wanted [Aaron] dead. You sent us here to kill him.
Carolyn: On the contrary. I told you both repeatedly and strenuously not to kill him. But it's hardly our fault if an assassin for the Twelve murdered Aaron Peele.

Villanelle: You are the worst. How long have you been standing there? You're such a drama queen.

Villanelle: I bet your kids are ugly.
Raymond: They are.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Is it a little Villanelle-esque of me to say I'm disappointed that Aaron didn't end up spit roasted? I thought he was a creepy emotionally manipulative abusive control freak last week, but this week we learned he's also a complete psycho so Aaron dying? Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Bonus: Amber is finally free from his controlling ways. I don't know if she'll see it that way at first (I honestly hope she doesn't fall off the wagon because of this), but she really is better off without him controlling every aspect of her life.

I was surprised by how much they packed into this episode. When we first met Hugo at the beginning of the season, I never would have guessed I would end up feeling so sorry for him. The poor guy was begging Eve not to leave him. Not that I was surprised by her decision. OF COURSE she ran off to save Villanelle (but not before making a date with another assassin!).

Awwww, I was saddened when Carolyn told Eve that Kenny already knew about everything because he was on the clean up team. No wonder he warned her not to go to Rome.

I was a little disappointed that Eve didn't ask Carolyn if Hugo was okay. I mean, I know she had a lot on her mind, but still.

Eve and Villanelle clearly have a connection, as evidenced by each of them refusing to leave without the other in defiance of their handlers, but Eve still has that pesky conscience which caused her to walk away from both Carolyn and Villanelle.

Villanelle thought that she and Eve were the same and that Eve would be free to be her true self and embrace murdering people once she just got the first one out of the way. Her undisguised delight at watching Eve kill Raymond (and to save Villanelle, no less) made it obvious that she thought Eve would automatically be on Team Murder afterward.

I thought that they would leave the end ambiguous so we wouldn't know if Villanelle just shot at the air/a column or if she actually shot Eve, but nope, they pulled back to show us. Interesting in light of what Konstantin told Eve earlier this season about being careful about love and hate with Villanelle. As he pointed out, you need only look at what Villanelle has done to the people she loves like Nadya and Konstantin.

[meira.hand]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I thought that they would leave the end ambiguous so we wouldn't know if Villanelle just shot at the air/a column or if she actually shot Eve, but nope, they pulled back to show us.

I assume that Eve was just following Hugo's advice and this was why they had the previous exchange, as a hint for us:

Eve: Omigawd, you're alive!
Hugo: I played dead. A hero's technique.

Edited May 25, 2019 by meira.hand

[Joimiaroxeu]

Didn't care for the ending at all. Ever since GoT killed off a key character right off the bat, a lot of shows want to pull their own shocking deaths of characters thought to unexpendable. But Eve is the title character and no way are they going to kill her off. Why leave such a ridiculous cliffhanger?

[peacheslatour]

Late to the party on this one and it has probably already been discussed but I'm currently watching Smell Ya Later. What language in Angel of the Morning being sung in?

[HollyG]

48 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Late to the party on this one and it has probably already been discussed but I'm currently watching Smell Ya Later. What language in Angel of the Morning being sung in?

Dutch

“Vlinder Van Een Zomer (Angel Of The Morning)” – by Willeke Alberti 1968

From BBC America http://www.bbcamerica.com/shows/killing-eve/blog/2019/04/behind-the-music-of-killing-eve-episode-4

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, HollyG said:

Dutch

“Vlinder Van Een Zomer (Angel Of The Morning)” – by Willeke Alberti 1968

From BBC America http://www.bbcamerica.com/shows/killing-eve/blog/2019/04/behind-the-music-of-killing-eve-episode-4

Thank you! My DH and I were debating because he knows German and I know the romance languages. I knew it wasn't French, Spanish or Italian. It didn't sound Russian or Chinese. It sounded German to me and he said no but kind of Germanish.

[kieyra]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Didn't care for the ending at all. Ever since GoT killed off a key character right off the bat, a lot of shows want to pull their own shocking deaths of characters thought to unexpendable. But Eve is the title character and no way are they going to kill her off. Why leave such a ridiculous cliffhanger?

The bigger issue I’m having is that I still don’t understand if I’m supposed to be rooting for these two or what. (I mean, yeah, obviously Eve isn’t dead.) 

If they’re not obsessed with each other, there’s no story. But Eve is obsessed with V only when she’s not in the same room with her. When they’re together, she just acts annoyed. The season toyed with the idea of Eve going full-blooded killer herself, but then I guess she reverted to humanity. (Except now she says she feels no fear.) 

I know I’m not getting this across well, but I would have rather the season ended with them running off to Alaska together and plotting their revenge on everyone. That is, if the show wants me to believe in their magical connection.

Did I miss the scene where they follow up on Niko? Because they showed it in the previouslies. When V offered to cook for Eve I assumed she was going to mention Shepherd’s Pie and somehow that would have tipped Eve off that V had done something terrible to Niko, and that would be why they “broke up” again. 

[kieyra]

Ok, have a question.

Was on another forum, with some angry shippers after the finale. So people do view this show as legitimately a romance about Eve and Villanelle. 

So, my question: do people really believe Villanelle is capable of “love”, or of somehow being cured of being a sociopath? I mean, she said it right there at the end, when Eve asked her if she knew what love meant. She said “it means you’re mine”. In other words, a possession, an object. In other words, V is still a sociopath. 

I’ve been okay(ish) with the idea that the two of them have an unhealthy obsession with each other, but generally am not onboard with the idea that it’s love for either one of them, or that V is capable of love, or of magically no longer being a sociopath. So this show is not a romance for me. (I’m not sure what it is, honestly.) 

I guess I’m mostly feeling uneasy about the ongoing romanticizing of sociopaths in the post-Dexter era. While, yes, still enjoying the character of V and Comer’s performance. I just didn’t know people had significant investment in “shipping” these two, to the point of social media outrage, when one of them is ... a psychopathic serial killer who by definition can’t feel love.

Am I making sense here? Are we supposed to believe that V can somehow grow a conscience? 

Edited May 27, 2019 by kieyra
Edited to remove unnecessary details about the shipper communities.

[BellyLaughter]

1 hour ago, kieyra said:

Ok, have a question.

Was on another forum. Apparently there is big LGBTQ community controversy about the finale and “queerbaiting”. So people do view this show as legitimately a romance about Eve and Villanelle. 

So, my question: do people really believe Villanelle is capable of “love”, or of somehow being cured of being a sociopath? I mean, she said it right there at the end, when Eve asked her if she knew what love meant. She said “it means you’re mine”. In other words, a possession, an object. In other words, V is still a sociopath. 

I’ve been okay(ish) with the idea that the two of them have an unhealthy obsession with each other, but generally am not onboard with the idea that it’s love for either one of them, or that V is capable of love, or of magically no longer being a sociopath. So this show is not a romance for me. (I’m not sure what it is, honestly.) 

I guess I’m mostly feeling uneasy about the ongoing romanticizing of sociopaths in the post-Dexter era. While, yes, still enjoying the character of V and Comer’s performance. I just didn’t know people had significant investment in “shipping” these two, to the point of social media outrage, when one of them is ... a psychopathic serial killer who by definition can’t feel love.

Am I making sense here? Are we supposed to believe that V can somehow grow a conscience? 

Yes you are and no she can’t..... for me this show is about so much more than silly fan girl shipping..... Eve reclaiming her humanity and Villanelle feeling betrayed by it takes us to a very interesting place next season and happily ever after is not that place and IMHO was never the place they intended to go.  Could it be interpreted as queer baiting.....absolutely, if you forget Villanelle is a sociopath incapable of feeling or loving.... 

[CrazyInAlabama]

The only Niko part I saw was the brief recap of last week, and the final scene where he comes back to consciousness, to see Gemma (? the wanna-be girlfriend) dead.    

I hope Eve comes back home, and gets out of this mess that everyone maneuvered her into.     

There certainly are a lot of unresolved issues for next season.     Konstantin is a fool if he thinks Villanelle will ever stop hunting him, and his family.     

Edited May 27, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[slf]

Well, they've done shows about psychopaths/sociopaths who do feel love and are very protective of the one person they care about. So I don't see the problem with people shipping Villanelle and Eve. Just because they're two women doesn't suddenly make the idea ludicrous, not after more than 15 years of straight shows that have done the same.

[catrice2]

Sorry, but this season was a miss for me.  Just add this ending to a long list of series or season ending finales that I have been underwhelmed by....I could list the number of reasons but right now I am too tired

[slf]

I'll admit, I cackled when Eve said, "Sorry!" to Raymond as she was axe murdering him.

Eve being, understandably, angry that Villanelle manipulated her into murdering Raymond is interesting to me. In this very same episode Eve said she believed Villanelle would kill her yet the manipulation came as a complete shock. Eve still had blinders on, to a degree, where Villanelle was concerned. Still didn't entirely understand how Villanelle thinks, feels, operates. There's also a part of me that thinks, on some level, Eve may be reacting to how her first kill (cause let's not kid ourselves here, there will probably be more) wasn't authentic, wasn't really hers. I think she needed her first to be necessary, a way to ease herself in without compromising her conscience too much.

So Killing Eve definitely isn't literal. In fact, I'd wager that if one of them does end up killing the other in the end, it'll be Eve killing Villanelle.

[kieyra]

34 minutes ago, slf said:

Well, they've done shows about psychopaths/sociopaths who do feel love and are very protective of the one person they care about. So I don't see the problem with people shipping Villanelle and Eve. Just because they're two women doesn't suddenly make the idea ludicrous, not after more than 15 years of straight shows that have done the same.

Hi—I hope you’re not suggesting that I have a problem with the two leads being female.

The part I find ludicrous is the idea that psychopaths can feel love. I found it ludicrous when Dexter did it. I’m not sure what other shows you’re referring to.

Romanticizing sociopathy/psychopathy is a dangerous game, in my book at least. And it doesn’t mean “only loves one person”. It might mean “a certain person is their favorite plaything at that moment”. If they can feel love and empathy for another being, they are by definition not a sociopath. 

This has absolutely nothing to do with gender or sexual orientation. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by kieyra

[slf]

18 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Hi—I hope you’re not suggesting that I have a problem with the two leads being female.

The part I find ludicrous is the idea that psychopaths can feel love. I found it ludicrous when Dexter did it. I’m not sure what other shows you’re referring to.

Romanticizing sociopathy/psychopathy is a dangerous game, in my book at least. And it doesn’t mean “only loves one person”. It might mean “a certain person is their favorite plaything at that moment”. If they can feel love and empathy for another being, they are by definition not a sociopath. 

This has absolutely nothing to do with gender or sexual orientation. 

Whether nor not this show is dealing with psychopathy genuinely or not remains to be seen. Generally, tho, tv shows use the terminology and even a bit of the psychology but they don't follow through. The psychopath (or sociopath, more commonly) does "love" one person with whom they have either a close connection or actual relationship. That has pretty much always been how tv shows do it- with straight characters. Many, many LGBT people, myself included, are watching this show with the belief that this show will be the same and people are annoyed at the idea that it may not be. 

Now, is the idea of a psychopath being in love, genuinely, with someone dumb? Of course! But I don't care for the point of view that shippers are being silly or anything else for expecting this show to give them what countles other shows have given straight people. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by slf

[kieyra]

9 minutes ago, slf said:

Whether nor not this show is dealing with psychopathy genuinely or not remains to be seen. Generally, tho, tv shows use the terminology and even a bit of the psychology but they don't follow through. The psychopath (or sociopath, more commonly) does "love" one person with whom they have either a close connection or actual relationship. That has pretty much aleays been how tv shows do it- with straight characters. Many, many LGBT people, myself included, are watching this show with the belief that this show will be the same and people are annoyed at the idea that it may not be. 

Now, is the idea of a psychopath being in love, genuinely, with someone dumb? Of course! But I don't care for the point of view that shippers are being silly or anything else for expecting this show to give them what countles other shows have given straight people. 

I would have, and probably did, say the same things about Dexter.

I definitely bagged on The Fall for romanticizing their serial killer.

Can you please give me some examples of other scripted dramas where sociopathic killers were portrayed as capable of love, but only for that one special person? 

I’m not talking about fantasy villains with redemption arcs, vampires with souls, etc. I’m talking about shows set in the real world that have gone out of their way to show us that someone is a serial killer and a psychopath. 

People are obviously free to ship whoever they want. I’m free to point out that sociopaths don’t feel love. I’m genuinely sorry if you feel that I only called it out because it’s not a Herero couple. If you browse my post activity here you’ll probably find a zillion posts about Gentleman Jack. You’ll find my rage about what happened to an LGBT couple on The Magicians. And go back far enough and you’ll find my total disdain for The Fall and their “sexy” serial killer. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by kieyra

[slf]

14 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I would have, and probably did, say the same things about Dexter.

I definitely bagged on The Fall for romanticizing their serial killer.

Can you please give me some examples of other scripted dramas where sociopathic killers were portrayed as capable of love, but only for that one special person? 

I’m not talking about fantasy villains with redemption arcs, vampires with souls, etc. I’m talking about shows set in the real world that have gone out of their way to show us that someone is a serial killer and a psychopath. 

People are obviously free to ship whoever they want. I’m free to point out that sociopaths don’t feel love. I’m genuinely sorry if you feel that I only called it out because it’s not a Herero couple. If you browse my post activity here you’ll probably find a zillion posts about Gentleman Jack. Go back far enough and you’ll find my total disdain for The Fall and their “sexy” serial killer. 

Why disregard fantasy? That's where half the serial killer types are! But I addressed the LGBT aspect because that was how you contextualized your comment. Not "fans" in general or even "shippers"- the LGBT community. So I clarified why that disappointment is being expressed. Unfortunately, there is a history of straight people getting really, suddenly interested in the morality of things once it gets gay and they object to things they don't when it's happening with straight people. You mention Gentleman Jack, so let's use that for example. You might have heard that some reviewers are accusing Lister of grooming Walker- even tho the latter is almost thirty years old? Grooming, of course, being the word used to describe what pedophiles or other sexually predatory people do- predatory and pedophile being two words that homophobic straight people use when talking about gay people. Now you didn't mean it that way, and I believe you. But all I had to go on was wording and the wording was "the LGBT community" and "queerbaiting".

I agree that in general romanticizing violent criminals isn't great but I'll be honest, that's because the shows are about straight couples. Most serial killers, or violent offenders in general, are men and they almost always target women. So the tendency of tv shows to portray them as still being redeemable or romantic is problematic in that context because it's an extension of the misogyny that our culture is steeped in. For me, Villanelle and Eve being both bi/gay and women removes it from that context since it's very rare for women (especially gay and bisexual women) to be psychopathic/sociopathic serial killers. Like this show might as well be about mermaids who kill. I appreciate not everyone feels the same, tho.

Edited May 27, 2019 by slf

[kieyra]

Not quoting because I’m on mobile and it’s getting long, and don’t want it to take over the thread—

I only disregard fantasy because I’m well aware that fantasy plays fast and loose with “evil/not evil” redemption arcs, and because this show is about the real world and has gone so far as to show V in a psychological screening with her psychopathy on display. It’s not pretending that she’s just a hurt, scared little girl deep inside. She herself laughs off that idea. 

In retrospect I shouldn’t have used the LGBT identifier, and merely said “people on this other site are shipping them, and really angry right now, and I don’t get it because sociopath.” Sorry for that.

Edited my original post to that effect.

Edited May 27, 2019 by kieyra

[catrice2]

Agree with you about the Fall, although that was not my only issue with that show!

[slf]

1 minute ago, kieyra said:

Not quoting because I’m on mobile and it’s getting long, and don’t want it to take over the thread—

I only disregard fantasy because I’m well aware that fantasy plays fast and loose with “evil/not evil” redemption arcs, and because this show is about the real world and has gone so far as to show V in a psychological screening with her psychopathy on display. It’s not pretending that she’s just a hurt, scared little girl deep inside. She herself laughs off that idea. 

In retrospect I shouldn’t have used the LGBT identifier, and merely said “people on this other site are shipping them, and really angry right now, and I don’t get it because sociopath.” Sorry for that.

No problem, this is all just been an misunderstanding.

I get what you're saying about how the show portrays psychopathy. I fully believe that if they do try to stay with a more realistic approach that Eve and Villanelle will never really have a relationship, based on love or anything else. It'll probably be more cat and mouse, more mindfucks, ven as they're still obsessed with each other. And that probably Eve will end up killing Villanelle. Villanelle this episode played a pivotal role in Eve's development and I think doesn't fully appreciate what the consequences might be. 

[TimWil]

Well, if Eve does eventually kill Villanelle then Villanelle better not have an ecstatic look on her face like Aaron did in tonight’s season finale. Because being murdered, especially by someone you’re into, probably sucks.

Edited May 27, 2019 by TimWil