S10.E09: The Empress Of Mars

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

"God save the Queen" has been scrawled on the surface of Mars. What are Victorians doing on the home of the Ice Warriors? And what will they find beneath the Martian soil?

[Llywela]

Well, that was better! Shaky start, but it improved steadily from there. I really wanted the young soldier to survive and make it home to his fiancee, though. :( Also, I get that the colonel wanted to join the Ice Queen because he had nothing to go home for, but what about the rest of his surviving men? Do they get a say?

Not impressed by the contrivance used to force Nardole to ask Missy for help, though. Also, what happened to Nardole's rules about keeping the Doctor at the university? Suddenly he's going off on random jaunts with him without batting an eyelash?

Loved the Alpha Centauri cameo at the end - voiced by the same lady from way back in the 70s!

[AudienceofOne]

I honestly don't know what to make of that. I think it was good, Moffatt's weird obsession with Victorian England notwithstanding. But with everything that happened being from the plot of a film that Bill had watched I was waiting for some revelation that this also wasn't real.

In fact, if we got to the end of this season and found out this is all Bill's dream / alien simulation / Missy's Doctor Who fan fiction I wouldn't be surprised. 

[Triskan]

Not bad Mark, not bad at all really.

[Avon.Blakes7]

3 hours ago, Triskan said:

Not bad Mark, not bad at all really.

Is the QUEEN from years gone by; a Spider Queen perhaps? Loved what they did with Bill's hair! It's progressing nicely; taking me back several seasons and Doctors! Good so far!

[Lantern7]

Well, I'm ashamed to be a white male. And I'm 95 percent certain I'm not English.

Holy crap, that was some heavy-handed shit. Great that the Ice Warriors come back again to a fierce look, a lack of Fisher-Price hands, and lasers that crumple people to death. But this was not that great of an episode. Not even Appearing Repentant Missy could make up for it. Or Alpha Centauri. If you're not familiar with the character, here it is. I say "it" because Alpha is a hermaphrodite. Please let me know if that is the wrong pronoun.

Honestly, why the hell were British troops still wearing red in 1881? Did they learn nothing from losing the American colonies?

Stupid question: was that a picture of Queen Victoria from "Tooth & Claw"?

[AudienceofOne]

11 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Honestly, why the hell were British troops still wearing red in 1881? Did they learn nothing from losing the American colonies?

They wouldn't have been. It's just one of the anachronisms from this episode that made me believe none of it was really happening. 

Quote

Stupid question: was that a picture of Queen Victoria from "Tooth & Claw"?

Yes

15 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Great that the Ice Warriors come back again to a fierce look, a lack of Fisher-Price hands, and lasers that crumple people to death.

Actually it seemed to turn them into beachballs. Not the strongest part of the episode for me

[Starchild]

I missed why there were Victorian soldiers on Mars at all. 

[CatWarmer]

I got so distracted by the Ice Queen's voice because it sounded just like the Spider Empress in The Runaway Bride.  I kept expecting Donna to show up in a wedding gown.

[AudienceofOne]

51 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I missed why there were Victorian soldiers on Mars at all. 

Because it was the plotline of John Carter??

[Avon.Blakes7]

9 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

Because it was the plotline of John Carter??

You said it 1st! "DW's" been ripping off iconic movies for as long as I can remember! "Seeds of Doom" from Classic Who took me back to the 50's with James Arness as "The Thing!" I could go on, but I have a life; not much, but a life! lol! 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Avon.Blakes7

[HouseofBeck]

15 minutes ago, Avon.Blakes7 said:

You said it 1st! "DW's" been ripping off iconic movies for as long as I can remember! "Seeds of Doom" from Classic Who took me back to the 50's with James Arness as "The Thing!" I could go on, but I have a life; not much, but a life! lol! 

One of the things I most appreciated from the old "Discontinuity Guide" was the authors pointed out alllll the influences. They didn't call them blatant rip-offs, but...

 

I did enjoy this episode and tried to ignore any anachronisms, chalking it up to Gatiss. If there really is a "this is all a simulation" arc, I don't know if that'll piss me off or relieve my mind. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by HouseofBeck

[Avon.Blakes7]

12 minutes ago, HouseofBeck said:

One of the things I most appreciated from the old "Discontinuity Guide" was the authors pointed out alllll the influences. They didn't call them blatant rip-offs, but...

I'm old and cranky; I call it "ripoff!" lol! 

[John Potts]

Well this managed to lave almost no impression on me at all, except that war is bad. And apparently, all soldiers are idiots, because despite being cut off in an unknown land, they still consider it a good idea to attack an enemy who seemed immune to their bullets, yet had killed a couple of theirs. At least they did give an explanation for why the psychotic second in command felt so free to order his commander around.

Still convinced Missy is faking (Ninety nine times bitten, One hundredth time shy?), though I did like the callback to OldWho's Alpha Centauri (I guess they modernised the look but decided to keep the comical voice?).

ETA: Still think Bill is a great companion, even if she did the classic "wonder off and run into the plot" so beloved of much Who (Old & New) - she both trusted the Doctor and the Doctor her enough to go "You need a distraction? Sure!" plus her going, "I'll forgive the Victorian values what with you... actually being Victorian!"

Edited June 11, 2017 by John Potts

[Llywela]

7 minutes ago, John Potts said:

Still convinced Missy is faking (Ninety nine times bitten, One hundredth time shy?), though I did like the callback to OldWho's Alpha Centauri (I guess they modernised the look but decided to keep the comical voice)

The look didn't seem modernised to me - from what little we saw, seemed like just the same Alpha Centauri to me. The voice sounded the same because it was the same - voiced by the same actress as back in the 70s!

I managed to enjoy this one despite most of the plot being idiotic. Heavy-handed in its anti-imperialistic message though it might be, it made more sense to me than the last three!

[ZoqFotPik]

4 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Honestly, why the hell were British troops still wearing red in 1881? Did they learn nothing from losing the American colonies?

They wouldn't have been. It's just one of the anachronisms from this episode that made me believe none of it was really happening. 

Looking up photos and paintings from the Anglo-Zulu War in 1879 show British soldiers in red uniforms. A quick search shows the Battle of Ginnis 1885 to be the last time the British wore red into battle

 

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

I missed why there were Victorian soldiers on Mars at all. 

They were a unit stationed in South Africa, when the Colonel found Friday's ship. They healed him and helped him repair his ship with the promise of Martian riches.

I'm also not British. Several times characters referenced something or someplace called "Vincey". Does anyone know what they were talking about? Only thing I can find is a small town in Northeast France.

[Llywela]

3 minutes ago, ZoqFotPik said:

I'm also not British. Several times characters referenced something or someplace called "Vincey". Does anyone know what they were talking about? Only thing I can find is a small town in Northeast France.

Vincey was one of the characters - I think the young soldier who wanted to go home to his fiancee. As in Vincent, shortened to Vincey.

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Llywela

[John Potts]

3 minutes ago, Llywela said:

The look didn't seem modernised to me - from what little we saw, seemed like just the same Alpha Centauri to me.

It didn't seem so "plastic-looking" to me, but she wasn't onscreen long enough to be sure (and she wasn't a character we met often enough to retain a clear image of - though I recall she's a demon at table tennis).

[AudienceofOne]

13 minutes ago, ZoqFotPik said:

Looking up photos and paintings from the Anglo-Zulu War in 1879 show British soldiers in red uniforms. A quick search shows the Battle of Ginnis 1885 to be the last time the British wore red into battle

It's funny but I got the impression they were fighting the Boer War. That would mean the year and uniforms were wrong, which I took to be deliberate. But if they didn't say 'Boer War' then it could have been the Anglo-Zulu war and these anachronisms would disappear.

It still doesn't change my overall impression of the episode. After all, why were Bill and the Doctor at NASA to look at photos of Mars when the Doctor could just take Bill to Mars itself? Then Bill starts reciting movie influences as they move through a series of improbable scenarios. Then suddenly we're in a slightly-amended plotline of John Carter. So I was waiting for another 'virtual reality' revelation. Since this would explain several poor narrative decisions so far this season, I am still erring on the side of 'ongoing simulation' or something similar.

[John Potts]

13 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

if they didn't say 'Boer War' then it could have been the Anglo-Zulu war and these anachronisms would disappear.

I thought the Colonel was hanged for fleeing the battle of Isandhlwana (a notorious British massacre* with no survivors), which would place it in the 1880s, when the British army still wore red.

* That is, the British WERE slaughtered, they weren't - on that occasion - DOING the slaughtering

[ZoqFotPik]

15 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

It's funny but I got the impression they were fighting the Boer War. That would mean the year and uniforms were wrong, which I took to be deliberate. But if they didn't say 'Boer War' then it could have been the Anglo-Zulu war and these anachronisms would disappear.

There were two Boer Wars. The first took place from December 1880 to March 1881. That would place it during the time of red uniforms. The second took place during 1899 to 1902. All that said, the battle that the Colonel deserted, the Battle of Isandlwana, was part of the Anglo-Zulu War.

 

39 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Vincey was one of the characters - I think the young soldier who wanted to go home to his fiancee. As in Vincent, shortened to Vincey.

Thanks.

[Llywela]

This episode was set in 1881, we were told that on-screen - so the idiotic red uniforms are historically accurate.

[cardigirl]

I enjoyed this one more than the last three. So, is there only one more episode? I forget how many we get per season. 

 

Missy's question at the end has me worried. 

[Primetimer]

And more questions sparked by 'The Empress Of Mars'!

View the full article

[HouseofBeck]

This bugged me at the time and I may have missed the answer: How did the Colonel ever get reinstated to any position of command after being a deserter? Or was Mars one of those "you'll probably die anyway, let's send an expendable chap" missions? 

[benteen]

I thought it was excellent.  Gatiss scripts are a mixed bag but this was one of the better ones.  Very fun to see the return of the Ice Warriors.  I'm not sure how the Colonel got his command back but I thought the resolution for his character was a good one.  Enjoyed the various movie references of Bill and the Doctor (agreed that Bill's hairstyle looked great) and we got the return of Alpha Centauri of all characters (same voice actress too, Ysanne Churchman, who is 92).  Have absolutely no idea what was up with the ending.

Next week's episode looks great.  I've been looking forward to that one as it was written by the woman who wrote the last Classic Who serial.

A few notes from last night's episode...

-The portrait of Queen Victoria was of Pauline Collins Queen Victoria from Season 2.  It would have been funny if it was Jenna Coleman's Victoria but that show doesn't air on the BBC.

-The Colonel was played by Anthony Calf, who first appeared on Doctor Who in 1982 (The Visitation with The 5th Doctor).

-Catchlove was played by Ferdinand Kingsley, the son of Ben.  I should have realized this but he also plays the chef on Victoria. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by benteen

[Llywela]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I enjoyed this one more than the last three. So, is there only one more episode? I forget how many we get per season.

This episode is #9, there are usually 12-13 in a season, so there's still a couple more to go after next week.

[jhlipton]

13 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Because it was the plotline of John Carter??

I thought it a nice blend of Burroughs and H Rider Haggard.

 

9 hours ago, Llywela said:

This episode was set in 1881, we were told that on-screen - so the idiotic red uniforms are historically accurate.

It served Daniel Dravot and Peachey Carnehan well, at least for a while!

[HauntedBathroom]

Since this is probably Gatiss's last shot at writing Who, it's not a surprise he went out with a Victorian era story featuring the classic era monsters he nagged Moffat to bring back in 2013. But it was a fun bit of fluff, and Ysanne Churchman appeared!! As soon as I heard that voice, I knew who it was, but I couldn't believe it, until we got a shot of the old penis-in-a-cloak itself! Disposable, but entertaining.

[Starchild]

16 hours ago, John Potts said:

...and she wasn't a character we met often enough to retain a clear image of...

What? She was a giant eyeball! That's almost the only one I always remember clearly, lol.

[LiveenLetLive]

Quote

Throwaway episode IMO. I did like the "Only Mad Dogs and Englishmen..." aspect of the storyline. What in the Hell was going on with that Missy looking all gooey at the Doctor at the end? I am telling you, there is a "love match" there hahaha.

[call me ishmael]

Hard to judge this one.  After all, after the monks almost anything would seem like a Dostoyevsky novel.  But I did enjoy Bill as always and aside from the Empress of Mars doing her interpretation of the Ragnoss the ice warriors were fun.  And it was better than the John Carter movie.

Tired of emo doctor/Missy though.  They aren't Romeo and Juliet.  Or even Caesar and Antony.

[Locutus]

But why did the Tardis return itself to the college? Did Missy somehow cause it, so she could then save them and appear to be on the road to redemption? Or does the Tardis believe Missy and was giving her a chance to prove herself? 

[KirkB]

6 hours ago, Locutus said:

But why did the Tardis return itself to the college? Did Missy somehow cause it, so she could then save them and appear to be on the road to redemption? Or does the Tardis believe Missy and was giving her a chance to prove herself? 

From what I recall of similar scenes in past episodes, the TARDIS usually only up and leaves like that when there is some grave threat, albeit one only she may be aware of. It's a kind of fail safe protocol the Doctor only deigns to mention to his companion after their only means of transport has abandoned them. In this particular instance it didn't seem like there was such a threat. And if there was, I would usually expect the Doctor to mention it, to his companion or at least to us. But he seemed to be as surprised as Bill and blamed Nardole, who as far as I am aware doesn't actually know how to pilot the TARDIS. So since she went back to the university and just sat there I can only conclude she wanted Missy for something. Perhaps there is a danger to the Doctor beyond Mars that the TARDIS is aware of and it will take another Time Lord to help?

Overall I liked this episode. Admittedly, as Call Me Ishmael said:

10 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

Hard to judge this one.  After all, after the monks almost anything would seem like a Dostoyevsky novel.

I'm not too familiar with the Ice Warriors, or any of the older monsters aside from the Daleks and Cybermen. I never watched much of the older series, except for a handful of episodes I caught of the Tom Baker era on PBS back in the day. But were they always reptilian? I don't remember that coming up in the previous new Who episode, but maybe it just slipped my mind. A little odd that Victorian era soldiers, not even scientists at least, were able to help an alien fix his spaceship and decided to follow him to Mars. Did they tell their superiors I wonder, or are they like a lost regiment? I too thought the female Ice Warrior sounded like the Racnoss Queen. Could it be the same actress, or was it just an artifact of wearing a similar kind of pointy teeth prosthetic?

[darkestboy]

It was definitely going for a Classic Who vibe like nearly all of Gatiss's episodes have a tendency to do but I actually liked it.

Aside from one soldier, I didn't greatly care for them and Catchlove in particular irritated but I did find Iraxxa OTT without being too annoyed by her and I liked Friday enough too.

Some good moments for Twelve and Bill in this one. The movie references were fun enough too.

The Alpha Centauri cameo was a nice touch. Great they got the same actress to voice the role too.

Nardole letting Missy out and her concern for the Doctor was a good end scene, 7/10.

[Whimsy]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 6:59 AM, cardigirl said:

I enjoyed this one more than the last three. So, is there only one more episode? I forget how many we get per season. 

 

Missy's question at the end has me worried. 

I missed her question.  My DVR cut off right before she asked it only to start up again for Orphan Black, but there was enough of a gap that I missed what was said there.  Can anyone enlighten me?

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, GenL said:

I missed her question.  My DVR cut off right before she asked it only to start up again for Orphan Black, but there was enough of a gap that I missed what was said there.  Can anyone enlighten me?

She asked the Doctor if he was alright.  Twice, I think.  It was the way she said it, that made me worried. 

[Mabinogia]

4 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

She asked the Doctor if he was alright.  Twice, I think.  It was the way she said it, that made me worried. 

Yeah, that was very oddly shippy, the way it played out. She walked up to him soooo close, looked up in that "omg are they going to kiss kind of way" which made me unhappy. I love Missy but I do not ship her with the Doctor. They grew up as boys together. It's like dating your brother/sister.

[hnygrl]

What was that?
I can't tell if I even liked it or not and I've seen it twice already. What. WAS. That? It confused the hell out of me.  What happened?  Are you trying to tell me that the Ice Warriors are now a thing on Mars? And have been since the 1800's? Or...what? What?

WHY were there red-shirt-british soldiers from the 1800's on MARS? HOW DID THEY GET THERE? Where did they get the technology? HOW LONG did it take them to get there? Did the episode take place in the PAST or what? Did the TARDIS take them to Mars, circa 1800?  Or have they just...been there,  immortal, for 200+ years. And why can they breathe? Where is the oxygen coming from if there's no atmosphere and they're underground? SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!!!!

WHAT WAAAAAS THAT???????? 

And why did Missy keep asking the Doctor if he was Alright as if she knew he wasn't? Think maybe he's gonna regenerate because he's sick? Oh so many questions!

You know, it's like...we missed something...we came into the movie like 45 minutes in and have no clue what's happening. This episode felt rushed, thrown together, unfinished. Too many holes, not enough explanation. 

And then.

It ended. Just....'next time...'

[Lantern7]

@hnygrl . . . I think the "upright crocodiles" have always been from Mars.

[HauntedBathroom]

@hnygrl, this episode was set in the 1880's, the TARDIS crew travelled in time. The Ice Warriors are native to Mars. And the British soldiers got to Mars in Fridays spaceship, which they helped him fix after they found him crashed in Africa. Are you sure you watched this twice

[hnygrl]

2 hours ago, HauntedBathroom said:

@hnygrl, this episode was set in the 1880's, the TARDIS crew travelled in time. The Ice Warriors are native to Mars. And the British soldiers got to Mars in Fridays spaceship, which they helped him fix after they found him crashed in Africa. Are you sure you watched this twice

First time I was writing a paper, but the second time I was watching...I didn't get most of that...I guess I'm watching it again!

[MrSaxon]

22 hours ago, darkestboy said:

The Alpha Centauri cameo was a nice touch. Great they got the same actress to voice the role too.

Agreed! Especially as she's in her 90's now!

[jhlipton]

On 6/11/2017 at 0:07 AM, AudienceofOne said:

Because it was the plotline of John Carter??

I thought it a nice blend of Burroughs and H Rider Haggard.

 

On 6/11/2017 at 3:44 AM, Llywela said:

This episode was set in 1881, we were told that on-screen - so the idiotic red uniforms are historically accurate.

It served Daniel Dravot and Peachey Carnehan well, at least for a while!

 

On 6/12/2017 at 8:32 AM, KirkB said:

A little odd that Victorian era soldiers, not even scientists at least, were able to help an alien fix his spaceship

Yes, they were Victorian-era, but they were British!!!!

[Llywela]

On 12/06/2017 at 1:32 PM, KirkB said:

A little odd that Victorian era soldiers, not even scientists at least, were able to help an alien fix his spaceship and decided to follow him to Mars.

I imagine the Ice Warrior knew what to do, technically speaking - all the soldiers would have to do is follow his instructions and possibly supply raw materials he could use to jerry-rig a patch. They chose to follow him to Mars because he promised them treasure and that blinded them to all other considerations. Whether or not they told anyone they were going or simply disappeared off the face of the Earth is the question - I doubt anyone would have believed them if they did tell! But they expected to be returning home in short order, having made their fortunes - they didn't know they were going to their deaths, but they were certainly gullible!

[mahree]

From the recap: 

Quote

since when does Mission Control operate out of the Vehicle Assembly Building in Cape Canaveral?

I thought it was supposed to be the Johnson Space Flight Center in Houston:

On 6/12/2017 at 8:32 AM, KirkB said:

I too thought the female Ice Warrior sounded like the Racnoss Queen.

As did I.  I even looked it up (they are different actresses, though).

[Bruinsfan]

On 6/12/2017 at 11:25 AM, Mabinogia said:

Yeah, that was very oddly shippy, the way it played out. She walked up to him soooo close, looked up in that "omg are they going to kiss kind of way" which made me unhappy. I love Missy but I do not ship her with the Doctor. They grew up as boys together. It's like dating your brother/sister.

I don't want them romantically involved either, but it's not unheard of for childhood friends to become couples in later life. I'd imagine when said childhood friend is your only remaining peer/last other member of your species, the likelihood would be even greater.

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I don't want them romantically involved either, but it's not unheard of for childhood friends to become couples in later life. I'd imagine when said childhood friend is your only remaining peer/last other member of your species, the likelihood would be even greater.

But when one has dedicated his entire life to helping the helpless, and the other has dedicated their entire life to the senseless slaughter of billions, a close relationship of any kind suddenly becomes a lot less likely. The Doctor wants to see the universe; the Master wants to rule it. That fundamental philosophical difference between them has existed since the early 1970s and remains insurmountable, despite Moffat's best efforts to convince us otherwise.

[AudienceofOne]

But Missy's a woman now and we all know Moffatt thinks women are moral children whose entire purpose is sex or motherhood. 

[tennisgurl]

Alpha Centauri! That was awesome! And I was so happy to see they got the same woman. Very nice touch.

So, I guess maybe after the Monks I would have taken pretty much anything with a Thank You Sir May I Have Another, but I did actually enjoy that episode a lot. Not a super memorable one or anything, but a fun romp with some likable characters, and Bill and The Doctor doing their things. Its really all I need for the most part at this point. Not overly complex world saving and stupid alien invasions, but just fun time traveling and aliens. Save the drama for the season finale.

I liked the Victorian stuff, and the whole "We colonize Mars for Queen and Country" was a decent idea, especially because we ALWAYS end up in Victorian England, when on the moon. If they want to keep coming back to the same time and place over and over again, at least shake it up sometimes. Throwing in Victorian era attitudes mixed with alien stuff lead to some interesting stuff. Plus, it lead to "I'm going to let your Victorian attitude go, because...your actually Victorian", which was super funny, and I like that the show occasionally acknowledges that even good people back in the day had some attitudes that were rather crappy by todays standards, and that doesn't make them villains.

Really, the whole episode reminded me of the last time we saw the Ice Warriors, back in the early days of Clara's run, where she and The Doctor ended up on a Soviet Sub in the early 1980s, and an Ice Warrior ended up there as well. It also had a human military (or a small part of it) trying to use the powers of Ice Warriors, without realizing what they were getting into, just that time it was the Soviets in the 80s, instead of Victorian era British troops. That one also had a jerk ass commander who tried to weasel his way into power through the alien, and got killed, as well as another commander who was reasonable and honorable and survived. And the whole ended pretty peacefully.

Poor young engaged guy, sucks that he got killed. But, the poor guy was doomed from the start. I mean, he's the only black person (except for main character Bill) around in this horror movie scenario, AND he has a picture of his fiancé he was showing people. All we needed further to cement his doomed-ness was for him to mention he was just one day left until retirement.