S03.E08: The Book of Nora

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Nothing is answered. Everything is answered. And then it ends. Series Finale.

And so this show comes to an end.  Thank you, posters, for your thoughts, insights and humor.  One more hour with The Leftovers for us to share. 

[Armchair Critic]

Nora saw her kids and her husband and then came back through again!?! At least we got updated on the rest of them.  Kevin and Nora forever. :)

[tomsmom]

Ok but what happened to those fucking kids shoes???

[stagmania]

That was beautiful. What an absolutely singular show this has been.

[Macbeth]

It would have been really great if we actually saw and experience the Book of Nora with her - instead of her telling us afterwards.

TPTB decided to tell rather than show. 

The machine worked and Nora went to the place where the leftovers went and we didn't get to experience it?? That was the show.  They followed Kevin with all of his resurrections- I believe.  Of course her story didn't have the crazy assassin after life - so why bother.  TPTB decided it  wasn't important enough to follow Nora to see firsthand what had happened to the people who had disappeared??   That was the story that needed to be shown.   It was more important to see that she reconnects with Kevin??  Who spends most of the episode lying to her about their history??

I am a very unhappy camper.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Macbeth

[jcin617]

So we don't know why it happened, but we know somehow the universe was duplicated and 2% went along for the ride.   But man, how 140 million people managed to rebuild and carry on could be a story unto itself.

(Well, if you believe Nora is telling the truth...)

Edited June 5, 2017 by jcin617

[vendredi3]

Each season of this show was so different from the last. I really loved what a creative effort this was, the characters, the actors, the music, the story. This might have been the most satisfying series finale since Six Feet Under. I'm going to rewatch the season immediately! 

[Macbeth]

4 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

 

2 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

4 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

Sorry double post

Edited June 5, 2017 by Macbeth

[stagmania]

11 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

It would have been really great if we actually saw and experience the Book of Nora with her - instead of her telling us afterwards.

TPTB decided to tell rather than show. 

They did that very intentionally, because whether Nora is telling Kevin the truth about what happened is an open question that will never be answered. Not a coincidence that this episode featured an awful lot of convincing lying. 

[kendi]

9 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

It would have been really great if we actually saw and experience the Book of Nora with her - instead of her telling us afterwards.

TPTB decided to tell rather than show. 

The machine worked and Nora went to the place where the leftovers went and we didn't get to experience it?? That was the show.  They followed Kevin with all of his resurrections- I believe.  Of course her story didn't have the crazy assassin after life - so why bother.  TPTB decided it  wasn't important enough to follow Nora to see firsthand what had happened to the people who had disappeared??   That was the story that needed to be shown.   It was more important to see that she reconnects with Kevin??  Who spends most of the episode lying to her about their history??

I am a very unhappy camper.

I think she could have made up the story. Then when Kevin said of course he believed her, she knew things were going to be okay with him. Their suffering was so strong but too much for them to be together. Only time apart to work out all that angst could help them. They truly understand each other.

[Armchair Critic]

2 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Whether Nora is telling Kevin the truth about what happened is an open question that will never be answered.

Yup, that's how I saw it too.

1 minute ago, kendi said:

When Kevin said of course he believed her, she knew things were going to be okay with him. Their suffering was so strong but too much for them to be together. Only time apart to work out all that angst could help them. They truly understand each other.

This too.

[maystone]

I love that the focus narrowed to just Nora and Kevin. At its heart, this has always been a story about individuals, how each person maneuvers through this new reality and finds a way to ground themselves. Or in some cases, they never do. It looks as if the world has come to terms with the Sudden Departure after all, and that's a wonderfully optimistic ending.

[Deanie87]

1 minute ago, stagmania said:

They did that very intentionally, because whether Nora is telling Kevin the truth about what happened is an open question that will never be answered. Not a coincidence that this episode featured an awful lot of convincing lying. 

Yes, it was like the nun said, "It's a nicer story." I can't decide if I really believe it or not, but I still really enjoyed the finale.  I expected that when she said she came out in the parking lot naked that it would end up being a scam.

The Matt/Nora scene started the water works that continued til the end. Also, have I mentioned that I've only really watched season 3?  I probably would have needed to be sedated if I actually knew what the hell was going on from one moment to the next.

[maystone]

I believe Nora. I believe that Kevin believes Nora. After everything that has happened, why would he think this was a lie? Why would Matt have lied?

[stagmania]

11 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

Also, have I mentioned that I've only really watched season 3?  I probably would have needed to be sedated if I actually knew what the hell was going on from one moment to the next.

Wow, I really recommend going back and watching the entire series. There's so much depth behind all we saw with Nora and Kevin in this ending. 

[Deanie87]

11 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Wow, I really recommend going back and watching the entire series. There's so much depth behind all we saw with Nora and Kevin in this ending. 

I plan to. I tried to catch up before the finale and didn't have the time to get in more than the first episode from season 2, but I will definitely go back to watch.

[Cardie]

What a moving episode and finale to the series. Did Nora really cross over to the other world?  Coon played it as if she believed it (while Theroux played Kevin's story as a lie, I thought.) But I could imagine some sort of hypoxia, near death experience blah blah. We're free to decide for ourselves. I did think the idea of some sort of quantum entanglement in which the world splits in an instant with those who remain on either side perceiving their counterparts as departed was an elegant one, foreshadowed as someone here pointed out, by Assassin World Evie thinking her whole family had departed. Recappers have questioned why Nora would not go up to her family on the other side, but perhaps she recalled the anguish of Lily not knowing who she was.

That aside, what this was all about was that grief, anger, and guilt can be overcome, with time and sacrifice. Nora and Kevin are middle-aged now and she is condemned to be childless. But they can start over and be happy. I have to say that I never expected a happy ending, even a muted one, out of The Leftovers. After all, Kevin went looking for a woman who seemed to have departed, believed steadfastly that he would find her in this world, and did.

While there's never an Isaac, Sarah-as-Abraham--both he and Nora were smashers of idols--gets her ram, er goat, caught in a thicket as a sign of grace and reward for her strange sort of faith. When she accepts the messages of love, specifically the one from Kevin, her doves return and the world starts anew. Many tears from me.

[subina167]

I'm devastated that it's over. Wouldn't it be great to see Kevin and Nora start over back in America?

[pfk505]

Well that was just absolutely perfect.

[shapeshifter]

44 minutes ago, subina167 said:

…Wouldn't it be great to see Kevin and Nora start over back in America?

Or maybe have them go together to the other place with all the orphans? Except the orphans would be adults now—assuming that Nora's story was "real," and not just what she imagined while in the pod chamber.

The undying faithfulness of Kevin's love for Nora made their ending very satisfying.

[DiabLOL]

I'm still crying.

[WaltersHair]

What a relief. At the start, I thought the writers had dropped acid before churning this out and I was afraid. Very afraid.

Is it possible the scar on Kevin's chest from last episode was to foreshadow his pacemaker insertion? That's about the place it might be.

.And there were almost zero supernatural elements, which is just fine.

I'm happy for them. Really happy. I will miss this show.

[bagatelle]

1 hour ago, maystone said:

IWhy would Matt have lied?

Because he told Nora he would say whatever she told him to.

Now, did Laurie really not tell Kevin where to eventually find Nora? If not, what a terrible thing to do to the guy, all this time knowing where he could find her and there he was, wasting his two week vacation searching a huge place like Oz.

[Addlepated]

Love came back at the end.  

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

They did that very intentionally, because whether Nora is telling Kevin the truth about what happened is an open question that will never be answered

Yes. And in the end, the only belief that saved anyone, was the belief these people had in each other.

[For Cereals]

I guess I can forgive him for Lost now...not so much for WWZ.

[shapeshifter]

Nice review/recap of this episode from the NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/04/arts/television/the-leftovers-finale-review.html

And we know that when Laurie told Nora/us that she was a "certified" scuba diver, we didn't need to worry about her being "certified" crazy and suicidal anymore. I guess that was Jill's daughter she was holding.

[lance]

Can someone help explain to me what the last episode was about then?  Kevin supposedly nuked the entire world.  So if that world was nuked, how did Nora get to go back and see her kids?

[Cardie]

3 minutes ago, lance said:

Kevin supposedly nuked the entire world.  So if that world was nuked, how did Nora get to go back and see her kids?

The alternate reality Kevin visited (or hallucinated) was the afterlife, where the only people present were people who had died. The duplicate world where Nora found her family and the other 2% of the population was a quantum split. Both places existed for real and the people in them weren't dead.

 

56 minutes ago, bagatelle said:

Now, did Laurie really not tell Kevin where to eventually find Nora? If not, what a terrible thing to do to the guy, all this time knowing where he could find her and there he was, wasting his two week vacation searching a huge place like Oz.

In an interview Lindelof says he wrote a line for Kevin when he tells this story to Nora to the effect that he lied to everyone about where he was going on his vacations. Theroux found it taking him out of the emotion of the speech, so they cut it.

[lance]

Cardie - thanks for the help.   I've skimmed thru other fan sites and now they're saying that Nora lied at the end about finding her kids.  That she did not go thru with the machine but got out and just disappeared.   She just told the story to Kevin because like the nun said it makes a better story.  What do you think?

[catrox14]

I really didn't understand what happened TBH. I don't understand why they didn't show us Nora's trip. 

Did they really nuke the world? I'm baffled and it's not really a good baffled. 

[Cardie]

As I said in my first post in this thread, I believe Nora believes she went there but it has some ambiguity. I think she did go because it's a scientific explanation involving particle physics and thus seems possible to me. What's important is the symbolism of Kevin destroying his escape zone and Nora coming back from hers to reconnect and love each other in this world.

[Tim Thomason]

I think it was all a beautiful lie at the end. Nora yelled (which we briefly saw) and was set free by the physicists and/or Matt (who was in the comm room) before the irradiation. She then decided to live the rest of her life in Australia.

If, though, everything Nora said was true, I refuse to believe that that physicist wouldn't have built a "return home" machine before Nora came knocking on his door. In a world of orphans, what kind of monster just sits on the knowledge and technology to restore families and provide answers to two worlds?

[Hava]

I stopped watching this show closely since the end of season 1 (which I LOVED) because the show became too steeped in the supernatural. The stories of both Kevins departed too much from reality for me. However naively, I continued to watch the show because I liked the characters and wanted them to end up emotionally ok. 

I found the finale to be beautiful. Although I've felt disconnected from Kevin, the dance between him and Nora made me bawl.

I am so glad that Laurie is alive. I really loved her story of coming out of the GR and starting anew. She honestly seemed to lead the most well-adjusted life.

What bothered me about the finale, however, is that, if Nora's story is true, she left her kids. It just didn't ring true to her character. What I loved about Nora and Carrie Coon's portrayal is the undercurrent of vulnerability she had due to losing her kids that never went away despite how hardened she became. I just think it spoke so much about a mother's love that someone would never truly be able to get over losing a child. And I was actually rooting her on to use the machine because I so wanted her to reunite with them. To think that she would make it all the way there and have the self-control not to run to them and hold them just didn't feel right. 

[WaltersHair]

What happened to Laurie's fetus? Just went to the other side and died on the ultrasound table?

Poor Justin Theroux deserves at least an Emmy nom for this episode. Naked emotion laid bare throughout and he was the one that made me buy Nora's life.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Hava said:

I stopped watching this show closely since the end of season 1 (which I LOVED) because the show became too steeped in the supernatural. . . . 

This line in your post reminded me that library books are arranged so that books on the subject of the paranormal follow directly after books on psychology.

 

3 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

What happened to Laurie's fetus? Just went to the other side and died on the ultrasound table?

Poor Justin Theroux deserves at least an Emmy nom for this episode. Naked emotion laid bare throughout and he was the one that made me buy Nora's life.

Quite likely, but "a nicer story" would be that Laurie's fetus appeared in the alternate universe in the womb of a childless woman—especially a woman who wasn't so traumatized by the loss of her children that finding herself pregnant wouldn't be an added trauma.
In the end of this larger story of loss titled The Leftovers—which was about divorce and lost love as much as it was about the loss of children or the loss of loved ones through death—we see that in order for Kevin and Nora to be together, Kevin has to give Nora the True story while she gives him the "nicer story." 
It wasn't quite clear to me whether Nora needed to tell Kevin the "nicer story," or if Kevin needed to hear the "nicer story," or if Nora's nicer story of travel to and from an alternate universe via the laws of physics was also the True story, but I prefer it to be true, which also fits with the characterization of Nora as being angry whenever anyone dared to claim a fake story, seemingly because the lies inadvertently served to negate the validity of her pain from an event that sounded like a myth.

Edited June 5, 2017 by shapeshifter

[txhorns79]

Quote

What bothered me about the finale, however, is that, if Nora's story is true, she left her kids. It just didn't ring true to her character. What I loved about Nora and Carrie Coon's portrayal is the undercurrent of vulnerability she had due to losing her kids that never went away despite how hardened she became. I just think it spoke so much about a mother's love that someone would never truly be able to get over losing a child. And I was actually rooting her on to use the machine because I so wanted her to reunite with them. To think that she would make it all the way there and have the self-control not to run to them and hold them just didn't feel right. 

If her story was true, I do think she would let them "go," so to speak, if she saw that they appeared safe and realized that her continued presence would be a detriment to them.  That would speak to a mother's love, I would think.   

[Gulftastic]

I'm going to really miss the acting on this show. Just top drawer from everyone. Love the ambiquity of Nora's going through. She believs and it gave her some measure of peace.

What happened to the goat at the end? 

[ottoDbusdriver]

So, if this was a quantum split then there was no religious connection and Kevin's afterlife trip was just bullshit.  And no explanation of what caused the quantum split or why the 140 million people were selected to go to the parallel world (including Gary Fucking Busey).

But if there was no quantum split there was still no explanation of where everyone went, how they were selected, and no explanation if there was any form of religious connection -- and still no indication of what Kevin's dream quests were about (or even real).

This finale could have been about 20 minutes shorter if 'Sarah' had a car.

Much like 'Lost' so many unanswered questions that created tons of discussion but were never resolved.
 

17 minutes ago, Gulftastic said:

What happened to the goat at the end? 

The goat was outside Sarah/Nora's house when the pigeons started to return.

[stagmania]

6 hours ago, Pallas said:

Yes. And in the end, the only belief that saved anyone, was the belief these people had in each other.

This. In the end, whether life was worth living came down to the personal connections these damaged people made with each other. We don't need to know if Nora's story was real, or if Kevin's alternate universe was real, because that's how faith works. You don't get to know, you just believe. Or you don't. 

9 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Much like 'Lost' so many unanswered questions that created tons of discussion but were never resolved.

The theme song of this show is called Let The Mystery Be. Every religious and supernatural element of the story along the way has been loaded with ambiguity. No one has answers about the huge questions this show addressed; we all have to stumble through life desperate to know and destined to never find out. If you went into this finale expecting definitive answers, you failed to listen to what the show's been telling you all along. 

[Dminches]

Wonderful ending.  To me, it doesn't matter if Nora made up the story or if it actually happened.  Most great shows are about the people and how they deal with the world around them.  The story line is the fabric which holds the characters together.  Nora's story gave us a glimpse of what was in her heart and her mind and how she may be able to finally reconcile with her family's departure and her loss.  It doesn't end here for her but rather represent a big step towards healing. I am going to miss these characters.

[Macbeth]

5 minutes ago, stagmania said:

If you went into this finale expecting definitive answers, you failed to listen to what the show's been telling you all along. 

I didn't come in looking for final answers.  I knew what I was dealing with.  But when Nora's story was told - I wanted to see that story so bad, and was pissed that I couldn't see it.  That was a really great story why couldn't I have watched that?

It did not help that I ended up hating Kevin as soon as he started lying to Nora about their past.  He's still a coward and an A-hole.  Not owning up to how he burned down their love.  So I had no mushy feelings at the end when they reconciled..

As a pure balancing act - Kevin lying it the beginning could mean that Nora lied at the end.  However...

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

It wasn't quite clear to me whether Nora needed to tell Kevin the "nicer story," or if Kevin needed to hear the "nicer story," or if Nora's nicer story of travel to and from an alternate universe via the laws of physics was also the True story, but I prefer it to be true, which also fits with the characterization of Nora as being angry whenever anyone dared to claim a fake story, seemingly because the lies inadvertently served to negate the validity of her pain from an event that sounded like a myth.

I agree.  That one line from the Nun about a nicer story - can't negate Nora's anger as she biked from place to place angry that people were lying to her.  To have her be so mad at the Nun about what was essentially a little white lie and then have her lie about the most important event in her life is not believable.  

I also don't believe that if she had decided not to go - she wouldn't have been there for Matt during his illness.  She took in an abandoned baby.  She spent almost all of her money to buy a house in the town where her brother lived, no way she abandons her brother.  Their parents died when they were young, her aversion to Kevin, will not break that very strong, filial bond. 

But I can imagine that male writers can't fathom the idea that romantic love is not the end all be all for women.

Kevin got his resurrection and Nora doesn't get hers if her story is a lie.  And given that TPTB decided to make it a possibility that she lied, then this ends up being all about Kevin and his needs. Kevin got his supernatural salvation and Nora doesn't get hers.  IMO

God bless you if you got through this post.  I guess, I became a bitter, old woman like Nora. 

[Lady Iris]

Laurie's ALIVE! Yay! Seems like the Garvey family managed to pull through in the end and for that I'm glad.

That dance was a thing of pure beauty. I had tears running down my face and didn't want them to let go of each other.

My only gripe is that way too much time was spent with Nora riding around on that rickety-ass bike of hers.

Nice idea about loading the sins of the past onto the goat but whoever let him go should've at least removed all the stupid beads before turning him loose. Sheesh.

[Milburn Stone]

9 hours ago, kendi said:

I think she could have made up the story. Then when Kevin said of course he believed her, she knew things were going to be okay with him. Their suffering was so strong but too much for them to be together. Only time apart to work out all that angst could help them. They truly understand each other.

I loved this. Kevin saying "I believe you" was the most profound thing. Because the truth is, believing someone is a choice, not a given, and Kevin made that active choice. He probably didn't really believe her! (Although his own assassin-dreams might incline him to.) But it might be one definition of love, maybe the central definition of love: that when your mind says, "this doesn't add up, this can't be true, this isn't right," your heart, with full consciousness, replies, "I don't care, I'm going to make the choice to believe her, because I love her."

Edited June 5, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[Juliegirlj]

Still letting it all sink in... I'm glad our characters got a happy ending, with the exception of Matt, but from what Kevin said, he may have reconciled with Mary before his death. 

I think it seems clear that Nora's story was exactly that- a story she constructed to allow herself to heal and move on. Reconciling with Kevin was the final thing that gave her peace ( her tense, angry face at the start of the episode morphed into one of calm happiness) . 

Perhaps we are left on our own to decide if Nora made the journey to the other place, but, she did appear to start objecting before the device activated, and, her description of a world where there aren't airlines because of a lack of pilots doesn't seem conducive to building a replica device. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

It did not help that I ended up hating Kevin as soon as he started lying to Nora about their past.  He's still a coward and an A-hole.  Not owning up to how he burned down their love.  So I had no mushy feelings at the end when they reconciled..

I thought his strategy in trying to renew things with her was so strange, and it wasn't clear to me why he thought Nora would be into it.  I mean, he was essentially trying to convince her that her memories of their past relationship were false and that she was crazy to think the relationship had happened.  It felt like it was done more to misdirect the audience about what had happened to Nora after she went into machine than to be a believable action on the part of a character.  .   

[Juliegirlj]

I think the nun summed it up perfectly when she said " it's a nicer story". Kevin and Nora's narratives were what they both needed to finally be ok. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I think the nun summed it up perfectly when she said " it's a nicer story". Kevin and Nora's narratives were what they both needed to finally be ok. 

But his story wasn't a "nicer" story.  It essentially rested on the idea that Nora would decide to pretend a good portion of her life had never happened.  Besides, ultimately Kevin had to abandon his fake story to get Nora to accept him back into her life. 

[Milburn Stone]

2 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

But his story wasn't a "nicer" story.  It essentially rested on the idea that Nora would decide to pretend a good portion of her life had never happened.  Besides, ultimately Kevin had to abandon his fake story to get Nora to accept him back into her life. 

Kevin is not perfect, and in his desperation to reconnect, he lacks the courage to do it honestly--at first. But he finds that courage.

[Uncle Benzene]

Loved it! And, to me, it makes perfect sense. I totally get why a lot of you think most of it remains ambiguous (let the mystery be) and are struggling with it for various reasons, but for some reason I feel like it was perfectly clear to me. And it was beautiful.

They finally told each other the fuckin' truth. For once. The whole truth. And that was the key all along, the key they never seemed to be able to find, until they finally did.

So last week Kevin, in the International Assassin universe, finally... FINALLY owned his shit, nuked that world, and came home. Like he tried to do when he sang "Homeward Bound" but it didn't really "take" that time. He was still running. But when he finally owned his shit and nuked that world, he came home for good, and he was at peace sitting there with Kevin Sr. on the roof. But soon he found out that Nora wasn't there, because she too chose to run. She ran to the "other side" where her kids were, looking for her own peace. But she didn't find it. All she found was that her pre-Departure family had moved on, and she didn't belong there. So she, like Kevin, came home. (To a certain extent, that is.)

But even then, both of them were still flailing. Nora couldn't return to the States or even tell anyone but Laurie that she was back, and while Kevin spent however many years searching for Nora, apparently his "plan" was to just erase it all, pretend that all their history never happened, and start over unencumbered by all of it in some pretend world of their own making, and he actually thought Nora would go along with it. They had both climbed most of the way out of their own muck, but not quite. Because they still couldn't bring themselves to tell the whole truth. They were both still lying to each other, to everyone else, to themselves. 

The scene where they danced was absolutely fucking incredible. There they are, embracing each other after so much time apart, happy ending just BEGGING to happen, and yet they're both crying because they know that it can't happen, won't happen, because neither one of them can bring themselves to just tell the fuckin' truth. The WHOLE truth. They're both still pretending, and they both knew it. And so Nora walks away, presumably forever. Again. And Kevin just stands there, knowing he's incapable of doing anything about it, because he STILL hasn't truly owned it.

And then, HOLY SYMBOLISM, BATMAN! The scapegoat... the literal scapegoat. Sin Beads caught in the fence. Suffering. And is it just my imagination, or was the terrain actually flat, but it was shot as if she was climbing a steep slope, because symbolically that's precisely what it was for her? And she fell all the way back down, but she persisted, finally struggling to scale that last, hardest, metaphysical slope. And when she reached the scapegoat, she removed the Sin Beads and put them on herself, finally owning her own shit. Freeing the literal scapegoat, and finally freeing herself. 

And what happens when she takes the goat back home? Kevin finally mans the fuck up and decides he's not gonna just let it go. He's not gonna let HER go. Not after all this. And when he finally tells the fuckin' truth, Nora invites him back in. For tea. And then she tells him her truth. All of it. Once and for all, finally. And I do believe it was the absolute truth, it all happened exactly as she said it did. She, like Kevin, was willing to die to find something better out there... somewhere. She searched for her peace, and she didn't find it. She didn't belong there. But she couldn't find her peace here either, no matter how hard she tried. Because as she told Kevin at the wedding, "it's not true."

And that's what it was all about. The fuckin' truth. The Remnant couldn't tell it. John couldn't tell it. Matt couldn't tell it. Holy Wayne couldn't tell it. Kevin Sr couldn't tell it. And for so long, Kevin and Nora couldn't tell it. They couldn't own it, none of them. Until they did. At long last. That was the real peace, and they finally found it, when in the end it was the only thing they'd yet to try. The only play they had left. And I'll be damned if it didn't work.

Beautiful.

So where are we meeting up with our torches and pitchforks and whatnot to demand that they bring this show back on Netflix or whatever in a year or so for another 8 or 10 seasons? We're wearing all white, no? I'll bring the Marlboros!