S18.E20: American Dream / S18.E21: Sanctuary

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

A hate crime is committed against a Muslim family, resulting in the death of their daughter. Things get complicated when a crucial witness in the case is deported, forcing Barba to drop the charges against a suspect.

Quote

In the 18th-season finale, two families seek justice for their loved ones in the wake of a suspect's unexpected release. Before long, public protests on the matter escalate to violence, leading Benson to go to desperate lengths to make an arrest.

[dttruman]

Just as I thought, in the first half, just 10% is about the hate crime and the rest is about Syria, undocumented aliens, New York City being a sanctuary city, and ICE conveniently getting involved. Just another obvious political statement that L & A SVU is known for.

[Spartan Girl]

Okay, I know we aren't supposed to get political on this thread. But let me just say that this episode illustrates just how 100 percent DONE I am with 45ers.

And Liv? Just because a racist woman might be an abuse victim doesn't excuse the shit believes. Kindly get off your high horse, stop making excuses for the enabling wife of the murderer, and take several seats.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[CelticBlackCat]

The 2 episodes season finale haven't aired yet on the West Coast, but I'm sure before tomorrow's sunset there will be a warning from the mods.  I don't think I will weigh in on this mess.  Too political to dance around my beliefs in a review on the actual show, which seems to be political pot stirring.

[MikeWhitf87]

Was not impressed with the season finale at all. It started off good but then fell flat.

[RafaelBarbas]

This is one of the best season finales SVU has had in a very long time.

[Redskinsfan]

This was a great Season finale!

[sockii]

I thought it was boring, predictable, and too much of a PSA instead of an actually engaging story. (Ie, basically the problem I've had with the majority of episodes this season.)

On the positive side: I liked seeing Fin actually being treated and acting like a sergeant, and everyone seemed to get something to do instead of Benson doing everything (one would hope so over two hours.)

I thought most of the supporting/guest cast was very good, better than we've been seeing for a while. I also enjoyed seeing Kirk Acevedo in this new character...I wouldn't mind seeing more of him next year.

Barba seemed to have some of his feisty nature back, although I wanted to scream at Benson for still trying to do his job for him at times (like telling the one defense attorney there'd be "no deal"—excuse me, that's for the ADA to decide, not you, Benson!)

Otherwise: I just feel like we've seen so much of this before? The hostage situation, the courthouse shooting, the end downer of "oh see hate crimes will just continue no matter what"...no real surprises here, nothing really new. And while it had some tense moments I also thought it was draggy and padded, especially in the last half hour or so.

Oh, and that initial rape/assault scene was just uncomfortably graphic, I'm sorry. Up until now I was at least giving Eid some credit for not wallowing in the gratuitous imagery like Leight often would, but that made me horribly uncomfortable to watch and I don't think it was necessary to dwell on in such detail to tell the story that followed.

[dttruman]

1 minute ago, sockii said:

I thought it was boring, predictable, and too much of a PSA instead of an actually engaging story. (Ie, basically the problem I've had with the majority of episodes this season.)

On the positive side: I liked seeing Fin actually being treated and acting like a sergeant, and everyone seemed to get something to do instead of Benson doing everything (one would hope so over two hours.)

I thought most of the supporting/guest cast was very good, better than we've been seeing for a while. I also enjoyed seeing Kirk Acevedo in this new character...I wouldn't mind seeing more of him next year.

Barba seemed to have some of his feisty nature back, although I wanted to scream at Benson for still trying to do his job for him at times (like telling the one defense attorney there'd be "no deal"—excuse me, that's for the ADA to decide, not you, Benson!)

Otherwise: I just feel like we've seen so much of this before? The hostage situation, the courthouse shooting, the end downer of "oh see hate crimes will just continue no matter what"...no real surprises here, nothing really new. And while it had some tense moments I also thought it was draggy and padded, especially in the last half hour or so.

Oh, and that initial rape/assault scene was just uncomfortably graphic, I'm sorry. Up until now I was at least giving Eid some credit for not wallowing in the gratuitous imagery like Leight often would, but that made me horribly uncomfortable to watch and I don't think it was necessary to dwell on in such detail to tell the story that followed.

Well said!

[rhys]

I wonder about poor Yusef.

[balmz]

Just now, rhys said:

I wonder about poor Yusef.

yeah that annoyed me that they just forgot about him in the second half

[CleoCaesar]

That was better than all the other episodes this long, terrible season. But geez, could the writing be any clunkier? ("They're all here to rape, just ask the president!") It was all so disgustingly smug that I have no idea who it was aimed at. Liberals who already agree with them? That's called preaching to the choir, writers.

See you all next season. Ugh, I wish I could quit you, SVU.

[Redskinsfan]

7 minutes ago, rhys said:

I wonder about poor Yusef.

I wondered about Yusef too everyone forgot about him including his family.

[StaceyNotStacie]

This was interesting. It was a good story and it was nice that the entire ensemble had something to do. Outside of the two women, nobody was really sympathetic. I was waiting to find out that the defense lawyer was the one who called immigration so that Yusuf couldn't testify against her client. 

[DB in CMH]

I generally liked it, but the contrivances... the protest that was just conveniently located outside the bodega? That Yusuf and Carisi has to wander through? Clunk-eee.

[Bobbin]

As soon as Liv promises a witness anything that she has no power over, you know he's toast, that it's all going to hell in the worst possible way.

The show sure has it in for federal agencies. Of all the illegal immigrants ICE deals with (or doesn't, but should), it manages to sweep up this particular one and get him on a plane to certain death the same day -- for reasons involving "national security" that they can't disclose.

Any perp who watches L&O:SVU would NEVER cooperate with the police.

[Amethyst]

I too was wondering what happened to Yusef and was disappointed that we didn't get an update.  Once Hector was murdered I thought they would somehow bring Yusef back into the fold.

Also, it was like they flipped a switch in the second half because every other word from the murderers' mouths (and the abused wife) was a slur.  After a few times, it was like, ok, you made your point.  

The ending was too tidy.  I think they realized they had to wrap this thing up or else it would be a cliffhanger.

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And Liv? Just because a racist woman might be an abuse victim doesn't excuse the shit believes. Kindly get off your high horse, stop making excuses for the enabling wife of the murderer, and take several seats.

This.  She can be a victim of abuse and still be a racist asshole.  They're not mutually exclusive.

[Maximum Taco]

Gotta wonder why the defense attorney even called the wife to the stand.

He eviscerated Barba's case without having to call any witnesses. Barba had absolutely no evidence that linked these guys to the crime, excepting maybe that video from the deli, which is hardly a strong piece.

The state clearly failed to meet their burden of proof, and he probably could've gotten the case dismissed immediately.

[ForeverAlone]

I've always had a problem with SVU political episodes. Not only do I prefer my favorite sex crime procedural to veer more to the thriller side of storytelling, I often cringe, because the SVU writers are pretty  much incapable of nuance when it comes to politics. They usually come across as preachy, ham handed and filled with people acting like tropes and spouting PSAs rather than behaving like actual humans. That was basically my reaction to much of this episode.

When I am not feeling the storytelling, I tend to critique the details and start to hone in on ways that just feel forced or when the characters are doing things just for the random reason of advancing the story points. That is what kept going through my head when it came to Yusuf and his part of the story. The story hinged on him being deported, so of course he had to be, but it just came across as so freaking fake for a couple reasons. First off, there was the entire ICE bust. There was never any explanation for why a bunch of ICE agents were there in the first place looking for him. I kept hoping (just for something different) that Hector's baller bitch lawyer called ICE to screw up NYPD's case against Hector, but that didn't seem to be the case. So who called ICE? They just magically appeared on the street when Yusuf decided to go out and buy cigarettes? Then the ICE agents just hauled his ass away in front of a NYPD detective? And if they were able to keep Yusuf in the country through some sort of special warrant (whatever it was Rafael was trying to procur to keep Yusuf from being deported), why didn't Rafael do that in the first place? Did they think they were going to be able to hide Yusuf's immigration status after he testified at the grand jury and on the stand? And frankly, I always felt like there was something off about the whole story behind Yusuf's undocumented status, but that is something else. 

Then there was the whole weirdness of Hector being friends with two seeming racist dudes who like to get high and rape and murder people. I honestly couldn't see why they would be friends with Hector in the first place if they had those feelings about Latinos in the first place. And why was Hector so bound and determined to protect them? 

And then of course we get to the part where the writers decided to have Rafael "disenchant" me (such an accurate self assessment from Rafael to Olivia after the fact, because that is how I felt). Sure we have seen in the past that Rafael was willing to push the limits to get a conviction, but dude, didn't he stop and think that he just got off 30 day suspension for witness tampering, and now he is encouraging Olivia to get on the stand and commit perjury to make a case? Perjury that any competent defense attorney would be able to suss out immediately and put Olivia at risk? Sure he abetted her perjury in the William Lewis trial, but he was doing it to protect her. The same reason he encouraged her to hide the identity of Noah's father. This time he was basically asking/expecting her to commit a felony and that just didn't sit right with me. Almost invariably, when Olivia and Rafael square off, I side with Rafael, because Olivia often gets on a sanctimonious high horse. But not this time. I was so relieved when she didn't lie on the stand. Sorry, Rafael, you may have had a horrific case to stomach, but that doesn't excuse lying to make a weak case. Was he trying to become the new Casey Novak? 

And of course the season had to end on the high handed note that a mosque was fire bombed and five people were killed. Because the political point wasn't driven home hard enough in the previous two hours. *sighs* I can only hope the new showrunner can get a better handle on stories next season. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by ForeverAlone

[Vella]

Kirk Acevedo. Browr!  I hope he gets looped into SVU next season, it certainly felt like they were testing the waters.

Some things worked, like the sense of growing panic in the NYPD/DA's office.  Everyone felt the squeeze, everyone kicked it up a notch, more yelling, more aggressive face offs, more threats. Barba being willing to 'believe' Maya's testimony and let her testify to it, his willingness to basically let Olivia lie on the stand, Dodd saying the same thing. Olivia feeling so desperate she'd call ICE.  With every new angle, new turn, it just ratcheted up the tension really well.

I also liked the willingness to not have the most sympathetic witnesses in the world, that their own desperation motivated so much of what they did.  The plot, while twisty, was fairly straight forward and the pacing was good.

I did have to laugh at the inevitable slur and racist checkmark dump of the racist killers once they were finally arrested.  That coupled with the half dozen hot button issues was clunky.  Islamaphobia, racism, immigration, the election, 45, sanctuary cities, everyone hates ICE. Check, check, check.

I wished Barba had been the one to coax the wife into telling the truth on the stand, the show doesn't let him get enough time doing the ADA thing. I miss the way McCoy on the Mothership would get TIME to question a witness and cross examine and pull truths out, sometimes by chance. Barba is more than capable, I wish they'd let him do it, especially on big cases like this one.

And of course Finn, cool as a cucumber, he just keeps on rolling, I like it when he gets to be the voice of reason.

[JyDanzig]

Hey, that was pretty good!  It needed one more turn through the rewrite cycle, but almost every other script this season needed to just be burned, so I'll take it.  The tension was high throughout.  The conflicts between our characters about how best to proceed were compelling.  That whole sequence of Benson, Carisi, and Barba jumping through the ICE hoops was exceptional, as was Benson's staredown threat of calling ICE on the wife.  The interrogation scenes were strong.  They were unusually effective at conjuring that "this case is ripping the city apart!" energy (tried for so frequently, but successful so rarely).  All the dramatic SVU tropes -- hostage situation, courthouse shooting, courtroom outburst -- were executed well.  Loved that scene between Benson and Dodds at the end.

It wasn't without it's rough patches, most of which have already been correctly diagnosed by others -- just dropping the Yusuf thread was off-putting, the actual scene where he was picked up was clunky as hell, as was the first scene where Carisi and Fin were talking to the guy at that deli, and the awkward opening banter of the yuppie couple as they passed by the crime scene.

I would disagree that the white racists were overdone -- I was having the opposite reaction, marveling at how on point they were.  Anyone thinking they didn't feel like real people should come by my uncle's 4th of July BBQ, where you will be sadly disabused of the notion that this was unrealistic dialogue.

Kirk Acevedo's presence throughout was sort of odd.  Trying out a possible new regular for season 19?

Anyway, impressed they went out strong!  Still glad we are done with Rick Eid.  Here's to an overall better season 19...

Edited May 25, 2017 by JyDanzig

[Snookums]

Well, coulda been worse, I guess. I kept getting pissed off when characters would say that Yusef was in a refugee camp. He was probably murdered the second he was pushed off the plane, or taken to that hideous prison/death factory and is waiting to be murdered. That whole thing needed some kind of mention in the second half.

What this episode did do well was show that every single aspect of the case was murky and dingy, like canal water: Yusef was sympathetic, but he still gives Layla shit for her skirt length? (Seriously, dude?) The meth head's wife is a grossly unforgivable racist but also understandably scared of her spouse.Hector's lawyer performing her duties for a man that lay down with the worst dogs and got up with the worst fleas imaginable. Soledad is shielding her husband but also trying to pretend he didn't set this whole horror show in motion.  Liv is desperate enough to actually threaten her with deportation. The ICE supervisor is not a monster, just a woman trying to do her damn job, but you can feel that she hates what that job has become, and wonders how long it's actually been that way but she could ignore it.  The mother just up and saying fuck it, I'll say whatever I need to to get through this with some meaning still existing in my world. Barba and the Chief both come as close as they dare to telling Liv to lie on the stand (Barba using the same words--"This case is different"--that she's been using the entire episode.) 

I miss the old SVU. The cases were just as bizarro but the writers/showrunner seemed much more inclined to let the story horse have its head and gallop somewhere interesting or silly; now every episode is so legally botched you can't suspend disbelief when it's not grim enough to star in an exceptionally indignant Dickens novel.

[Xeliou66]

Very interesting episode, exciting episode, and in my book, arguably the best of season 18. 

First things first, it's basically impossible not to veer into political mentions while discussing this episode in depth, but I'm not going to start a political argument/rant or make my review about politics so I think everything is fine here and hopefully it will remain that way.

I thought the episode was actually lighter on the PSA segments than some other ones this year, yes there was a lot that could be seen as heavy handed dialogue, but like I say some of that is kind of inevitable given the situation. I felt that they didn't push an agenda heavily or vilify a group of people, it was a very timely episode though given the current situation. Unfortunately, there has been a big rise in racial tensions and hate crimes since the election, and I liked Dodds and Barba's lines about how racists feel empowered as there has been a lot of that lately. But I was glad that the episode stayed focused on the case and not pushing a political agenda. 

I loved how we finally got a case that didn't involve any rich people, everyone was middle class-poor and the scenes felt much more realistic than the endless scenes of rich people in fancy offices and penthouses. I liked the scenery of places like the streets, the regular homes and apartments and the auto shop where the one suspect was arrested, it seemed much more gritty and real than most of the episodes this year. 

The whole episode felt much more like a classic SVU, we didn't know who the perps were until a long way in, we got actual detective work, the whole squad was involved, we got a lot of Fin, Carisi, Rollins and Barba, and it was actually complex and interesting and it portrayed the complex difficult issues with the system, instead of the usual St Olivia saves the world from a rich white rapist which is what we usually get. And I thought that the tension built up better than in any SVU episode I've seen in a long time, they kept viewers on the edge of their seat for the whole 2 hours. 

I liked that Barba stood up to Olivia when she tried to boss him, and that they disagreed, and I understood Noth positions. It was nice to see Barba not have his mojo stolen by Sanctimonious St Olivia.

I loved seeing Chief Dodds get a big role, he is a great recurring character, he brings in some much needed unbiased sanity, he can stand up to Benson but he isn't the stereotypical asshole bureaucrat boss by any means. I really enjoy all of Dodds' appearances and his relationship with Benson, he's one of the few characters Olivia has chemistry with and I hope next year they use Dodds more than they did this season. 

BTW, the defense didn't put the wife on the stand, Barba called her as a rebuttal witness. And while they had to give Mariska her weekly PSA speech at the end, I liked how they had the wife approach Olivia instead of Olivia bullying her into testifying, I think it was obvious she wanted to tell the truth, especially after seeing the family's grief, but needed encouragement to do so. 

There were some memorable lines, the racist killer's "that must've been the Mexican :they like tequila, and they like raping, just ask the President" was the best dark humor line SVU has had in a long time, I didn't expect them to take such a direct shot at Trump and I laughed out loud : I miss the dark humor SVU had when Munch and Cragen were around, they don't have much anymore. Also I loved Barba's angry rant at the ICE people "what are you going to do, deport me to Cuba?! Deport him ( Carisi ) to Italy?!" It's always great to see Barba's fiery personality. 

I agree that the whole deportation of Yusef was weird, why did they single him out at the protest? I kept on expecting the lawyer to have called ICE and gotten him deported as well. It was frustrating how they dropped that whole thing as I liked Yusef and wanted some resolution. 

I also noticed that the writers threw in a ton of racist slurs, but that's the kind of language people like tonights perps use, go to any online site for these idiots and you will see all the same angry rants against minorities with the same slurs that they used tonight. So I don't think it was unrealistic. 

I liked Kirk Acevado's Ray Lopez character fine and wouldn't mind him joining the squad, I've been saying that we need another detective to have 2 sets of partners again, but I was wishing he was playing Hector Salazar from TBJ, it would've been a great callback to an earlier franchise character ( Salazar even appeared on SVU ), and it would've been easy for them to write him in as a hate crimes detective now, he was a DA investigator after being shot, maybe he was able to pass his physical exam and become a cop again. It was a blown opportunity for a great continuity part. 

Overall I liked this episode. It didn't shy away from controversy but didn't pack on the PSA messages either, St Olivia was toned down, all the squad plus Barba and Dodds got big roles, we finally got some investigation and not just a he said-she said rape case, and the tension was built up very well throughout the 2 hours and didn't stop. A good way to end a mostly disappointing season, and hopefully season 19 will be much improved with no Eid.

[JyDanzig]

30 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

There were some memorable lines, the racist killer's "that must've been the Mexican :they like tequila, and they like raping, just ask the President" was the best dark humor line SVU has had in a long time, I didn't expect them to take such a direct shot at Trump and I laughed out loud

Dodds also referred to Trump as "that crazy thug down in DC", an even more direct shot, coming from the mouth of one of our heroes.

Edited May 25, 2017 by JyDanzig

[lonestar]

Why is Bensen so self-righteous? All the sudden, she can't misremember or outright lie?  Olivia Bensen has lied in court, called ICE to have people deported in the past, and shot and beat people when her life was not in immediate danger.

I'm surprised they didn't have the "racist" wife Carleen use the teeth LeAnne uses in OITNB.

[Xeliou66]

18 minutes ago, JyDanzig said:

Dodds also referred to Trump as "that crazy thug down in DC", an even more direct shot, coming from the mouth of one of our heroes.

I thought that line was a reference to Pizzagate, you know, the fruitcake who took hostages in a pizza place because he believed a fake news story from Alex Jones that the place was a front for a child sex slavery ring run by the DNC. I'm pretty sure that's who the "crazy thug down in DC" was. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Redskinsfan said:

I wondered about Yusef too everyone forgot about him including his family.

I guess they decided to write him off as the point to a PSA on the dangers of tobacco addiction?
—with maybe a sprinkling of instant karma for his crack about his sister's short skirt?

[wknt3]

The Good:
They tried to show complexity and nuance. They weren't completely successful, but they did show tensions between different minorities, sympathetic ICE agents, bigotry in different cultural groups etc.
The whole squad was involved and Liv was acting like a CO.
Barba! Barba in charge of the case! Barba acting like a hard charging ADA doing what it takes to get the conviction! Barba telling Liv to piss off! If he comes back next season I hope that they keep going in this direction.
It was nice seeing supporting characters with substantial roles. It made sense for Chief Dodds to be there and Kirk Acevedo showed just how much adding another detective benefits the show. I'm hoping that we see him again and not because they don't want to pay Ice! If Fin does take off several episodes he would be a good fill in and if he doesn't I'm still hoping we see him or the homicide detective character that was in a couple episodes added as a recurring character.

The Bad:
SVU writers you have multiple tools in your tool box. Let's try the scalpel occasionally instead of always reaching for the sledgehammer OK? I mean it was obvious you were trying for at least some balance and nuance and achieving it at times, but why must you always be so heavy handed even when it doesn't seem like you're trying to make a point? For instance why was Liv acting like an emotional rookie during the questioning after the hostage scene instead of showing her asking savvy questions about the hostage takers clearly aimed at getting a confession in the original case?
It seemed that we were moving on beyond the mandatory Noah scene every episode, but lately it's been back. Becuase we might forget that St. Benson is a mother besides the greatest cop ever. And while we're talking about that scene - you've been in multiple kidnap/hostage situations, had your personal info hacked and released and are leading a case that has seen people shot in public left and right maybe you might want to check the peephole before opening the door?
We remember the past. You can't just ignore it. Benson has made plenty of moral compromises and threatened people before. Why pretend she's perfect now? Speaking of the scene in the apartment that would have been a great opportunity for continuity. If you insist on having St. Benson's example of moral rectitude inspire a conversion experience why not have her talk about how she's testified to things she didn't believe in her heart, but seeing what happened to her former partner has convinced her it was wrong?

Overall this was a solid episode and gives me some hope for next season. It had obvious flaws of course, but it was entertaining, and it was moving in the right direction. I'll probably stick around unless they do something really stupid.
 

Edited May 25, 2017 by wknt3

[dttruman]

 It's funny here where most of the commenters don't want to get political about an episode that was written with a political agenda in mind. The second half was completely written (and baldy I might add) to focus on Benson. They completely contrived the situations to spotlight Benson's integrity and sacrificed the integrity of two others. Barba and Dodds were willing to let Benson commit perjury. I thought this was another one of their lousy methods to make Benson look good. But as usual, Benson gives one of her pep-talk speeches to a battered person and it becomes another cookie cutter episode.

[gesundheit]

8 hours ago, rhys said:

I wonder about poor Yusef.

I don't really think there's much to wonder about. He's no longer with us. (A rare moment of SVU writing letting us figure it out instead of spelling it out for us in a big Benson speech.)

 

Poor Emma Myles. Maybe one day she won't have to play a racist!

 

The one thing I wasn't clear on: is New York a sanctuary city? I sure wish they'd mentioned that! It was so unclear! What would've really helped is if someone had mentioned it 12-15 times, that would've clarified it a lot for me. Don't be coy, SVU!

Edited May 25, 2017 by gesundheit

[TigerLynx]

This was a really offensive episode.  Did they have to trot out every single negative stereotype?  There are reasonable people on both sides of the immigration debate, and there are valid reasons for why legal immigration is necessary and why there are laws.

Was I supposed to feel sorry for Hector (the man who decided to commit the crime of robbery and stood by while women were raped and people were killed), Yusef (the man who hid, watched people being raped and murdered, and did nothing), Soledad (who lied to cover for her criminal husband and blamed Benson for the situation Hector was in, which is ridiculous, Hector got himself into that situation when he decided to commit a crime)?  Because I don't.  The people I feel sorry for are the ones who were raped and murdered.

The uncle (the spineless coward who did nothing to help his nieces, sister, or brother-in-law) saying something about his nieces skirt was beyond offensive.

Saying New York is a sanctuary city does not mean Federal/Ice Agents are not allowed to do their job.

Whoever is committing a crime is in the wrong.  It was not okay for the men to rob, murder, and rape those poor girls.  It was not okay for the men to hold Hector hostage.  It was not okay for the wives to lie and give their husbands alibis, and it was not okay for the mother to commit perjury and expect Benson to do the same.

When no one follows the laws, anarchy takes over.

[Raja]

For all the push politics of the episode during the  25 years in this franchise you would get to think that the only thing that gets ICE to act is being a witness for the New York District Attorney. And then they would pull folks out of the courtroom and we got the third act how do we work around this obstacle. And then we come here and the ICE platoon hits a street demonstration I guess just to see if anybody runs because they did nothing else there.

We needed the actual elected DA on this one, ADA Barba and LT. Benson seemed to be making decisions high above their paygrades

[Primetimer]

A quintessentially Season 18 double episode -- well intended and acted, but self-righteous and clumsy -- tries to tell us what to think about immigration policy.

View the full article

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

as usual, Benson gives one of her pep-talk speeches to a battered person

I'm at the point where whenever Olivia launches into one of her textbook berating-the-victim moments, I think "Run away! Run away now!" because it's pretty much guaranteed that whoever she's zooming in on will end up worse off by the end of the episode.

[Gigi43]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And Liv? Just because a racist woman might be an abuse victim doesn't excuse the shit believes. Kindly get off your high horse, stop making excuses for the enabling wife of the murderer, and take several seats.

 

THIS! I was so mad about this and still am. Okay, the husband did hit her but are we too believe that she said all of that in the interrogation room out of brainwashing? Was he a non racist in front of her when they met, then turned on the racism once married and forced her along? No, generally those kinds of people end up together. Being abused doesn't excuse being a terrible person. As for Benson's "Do it for your son" speech? Benson has no reason to believe that woman won't raise her son to believe he's "not cared about" or whatever for being white and straight and everything else she was on about, other than the fact that Benson needs to believe and preach any woman who is struck by a man must be a saint. Being a terrible person doesn't mean saying the woman was "asking it for it", it means a terrible person also found themselves in an abusive situation.

 

As other people mentioned, why were the two racists hanging with Spanish Hector who worked with Muslims? That didn't fit.

 

I'm not sure what to make of Yusef. It's terrible what would happen to him if he ended up back in the Middle East, but... come on, you hide in the closet and let your family get raped and murdered? Yet you leave the house with all that media/attention around you for CIGARETTES?! Yes at that point he had police protection but if anything if worth risking your own life it's protecting your family from being raped and killed. He hid in the closet because of his legal status and then it seems like he was in hiding instead of seeing how his living family members were. That doesn't mean he deserves to be killed in a refugee camp for being gay, but I don't like that we're suppose to not see anything wrong with the fact that he did nothing.

 

A lot of the guest actors were good. The first hour was better fit for SVU. The second really veered into Law and Order: Race Relations. Of course we had Benson motivating people into testifying but I think the whole cast was used a good amount. Some good Barba stuff. But looking back on the season I think the 400th episode (the one with the mother who slept with the sons friend) and the hypnosis one are the only ones I can think of where they actually went to the jury verdict.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Gigi43

[slowpoked]

Wasn't Hector an illegal immigrant too? I'm confused about that part. The family said they had to let him go because he couldn't produce his papers. I was waiting for Hector to get picked up by ICE after he was released by NYPD.

So there was totally NOTHING that their CSIs found in that heavily trashed restaurant? No DNA? Fibers? No mention of the rape kit on the surviving sister? How about matching the shoe prints found? Me thinks they may need to call Gil Grissom and crew to find some evidence for them. It's totally hard to believe that there was no evidence left there by the other two men who were clumsy and careless and not exactly intelligent, seasoned criminals.

I'm surprised not one of the regular criminal defense lawyers showed up for the finale - Calhoun, Buchanan, etc. Buchanan would have eviscerated this case based on Maya and Benson's testimonies alone.

Edited May 25, 2017 by slowpoked

[Redskinsfan]

Your right John Buchanan would have had a field day. with this case.

[frogprof]

I laughed at the foodie-couple male half's snarky comment: "Oh, that's right -- we don't HAVE an EPA anymore!" BOOM. SVU writers don't like 45 right from the beginning.

[Redskinsfan]

Despite it's flaws I still think it was a great season finale.

[Bobbin]

2 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

The uncle (the spineless coward who did nothing to help his nieces, sister, or brother-in-law) saying something about his nieces skirt was beyond offensive.

Bystanders who rush in to help invariably are killed for their efforts. Yusef would have been stabbed to death and the women would still have been raped. There is an expression, that "discretion is the better part of valor." Doing nothing sometimes takes more courage than acting on impulse. 

[25thID]

Overall, the episode wasn't too bad....but, it wasn't too good, either. As has been par for the season, it had a good premise, but, it fell a little flat.

Not to be an echo chamber, I found it annoying that, all of the sudden (not really), St. Benson was the voice of reason and what was right by choosing not to lie on the stand; it almost was like she grew a conscience. Browbeating the wife of one of the perps to testify seemed like the typical MO for the season, and bending rules to fit an agenda played into the script.

The repeating that New York City is a "Sanctuary City" was annoying as hell. If I tried to play a drinking game by taking even a sip of alcohol for every time someone mentioned "sanctuary city," I'm not sure I'd survive 5 minutes. It just got annoying. On second thought, maybe I SHOULD have played a drinking game....it may have made the episode more bearable.

Don't get me wrong, the episode wasn't entirely bad- it had a hot button issue(s) and had cast involvement, which was refreshing. What I found annoying (besides the sanctuary city being repeated), was how one "side" of the hot button issue was painted as being "right" or "good," and the other "side" was painted as being ass backwards and all racist etc. I'm not trying to delve too deep into the political arena with that statement, but it was pretty off putting and just over the top, at least to me. I think I would have felt the same if it were the other way around. I personally would have been more into it if it were a little more grey, as to let the audience come to conclussions, or to maybe be able to reasonable see the other side.

As a final note of annoyance, St Benson continually saying: "He's GUILTY" to practically everyone who'd listen really, really irked me, A) their evidence was weak (even if he/they did do it, which they did), so going around saying that ANY perp is guilty before any verdict is premature and VERY unprofessional, especially before someone testifies. B) St. Benson has become judge, jury, and executioner. Again, a perp may have done something, BUT, to go around saying that someone is guilty is just bad juju and bad form. Again, they didn't really have a slam dunk case at that point, and what they had was flimsy, at best, so that really didn't make sense for St Benson to talk to the wife saying that. In that vein, I don't really see how that made the wife suddenly realize what she had to do- she seemed so dead set on defending her husband, but St Benson came to her with a flimsy "he did it, he's guilty, but we don't have strong evidence" deal made her open her eyes. I could see if there was mounting evidence that was beyond reasonable doubt, but that made me roll my eyes.

P.S. One last rant- St Benson threatening the ICE agent along with Greasy, I mean Carisi made me seriously shake my head. "I've been doing this a long time." Oh, okay! Let me get my boss! You convinced me! Give me a break. She straight up threatened him, then she admitted it, and he caved in. Yeah, that was TOTALLY believeable. I could see her maybe using some other backdoor way in, but to just use the line of "You're new, I've done this longer than you, blah blah blah yakity shmakity" was weak.

Anyway, it was a decent idea that was heavy handed, overly biased, and kind of a parody of what it could have been.

Edited May 25, 2017 by 25thID

[Gigglepuff]

Everyone here has made some really good points. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't all that great either. There were lots of things that didn't make sense to me.

Why were the two racists friends with Hector? If Hector was such a stand-up guy, and only wanted to claim his paycheck, why did he not intervene after things went too far during the robbery? OK, maybe he couldn't at the time out of fear, but he couldn't have made a call to the police in the aftermath of the attack?

How was one of the victims able to discern the smell of tequila on the man's breath? Alcohol, yes, but being able to distinguish the exact type of alcohol?

Can one really be deported within hours of being arrested and detained? 

Are courthouse shootings a common occurrence in NYC? (Have any of you seen the Robot Chicken L&O parody? Check it out, it's great) 

After Barba's suspension, he's encouraging Liv to perjure herself? And Dodds thinks that's just ducky too? Were those scenes written just to remind us that St. Liv does no wrong or because we needed just one more sanctimonious Benson scene this season? 

Probably the best thing about this episode was the acting from the guests stars. They were better than anything we've seen all season, and I think they ran circles around most of the main cast. 

The writing was awkward and clunky in some places. Once again, I'm convinced that these writers think we're stupid, and they still insist on sledgehammering us to death to make their points. I really hope that changes for next season. Subtlety and nuance can go a long way, writers!  

[TigerLynx]

39 minutes ago, Bobbin said:

Bystanders who rush in to help invariably are killed for their efforts. Yusef would have been stabbed to death and the women would still have been raped. There is an expression, that "discretion is the better part of valor." Doing nothing sometimes takes more courage than acting on impulse. 

The spineless cowardly uncle hid in the closet, didn't try to call 911, didn't try to sneak out the backdoor and call 911, did not come forward afterwards to provide testimony or evidence, only agreed to cooperate with the police after they assured him they would not report him  to ice, and then criticized his niece's skirt.  He needs to STFU already.  He didn't like being in danger because he was an illegal immigrant and gay, but he'll criticize his niece's clothes.

[Gigi43]

3 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

The spineless cowardly uncle hid in the closet, didn't try to call 911, didn't try to sneak out the backdoor and call 911, did not come forward afterwards to provide testimony or evidence, only agreed to cooperate with the police after they assured him they would not report him  to ice, and then criticized his niece's skirt.  He needs to STFU already.  He didn't like being in danger because he was an illegal immigrant and gay, but he'll criticize his niece's clothes.

 

His niece that was brutalized no less! Somehow I left that out of my post even though that was a big WTF. Yet you comment on her clothes after she was attacked?! An attack he did nothing  about and didn't check on them. Carisi questioned what that was about but of course no one called him out on just how inappropriate that was. Because you're not allowed to be called out on your bad  behavior in any way on SVU if you're abused or afraid of being persecuted for your race/sexuality/etc 

[dttruman]

11 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

This was interesting. It was a good story and it was nice that the entire ensemble had something to do. Outside of the two women, nobody was really sympathetic. I was waiting to find out that the defense lawyer was the one who called immigration so that Yusuf couldn't testify against her client. 

Yeah, there were quite of number of holes that were left open. Yusef was conveniently wisked away and that lawyer for Hector who was there jolly on the spot and wanted his rights protected even though he was part of the hate crime. Everything was just so contrived so Benson can give one of her pep-talk speeches to some one battered at the end.

[StatMom]

2 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

A quintessentially Season 18 double episode -- well intended and acted, but self-righteous and clumsy -- tries to tell us what to think about immigration policy.

View the full article

"Vichily"! You are an actual wordsmith.

[JyDanzig]

4 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Was I supposed to feel sorry for Hector (the man who decided to commit the crime of robbery and stood by while women were raped and people were killed), Yusef (the man who hid, watched people being raped and murdered, and did nothing), Soledad (who lied to cover for her criminal husband and blamed Benson for the situation Hector was in, which is ridiculous, Hector got himself into that situation when he decided to commit a crime)?  Because I don't.  The people I feel sorry for are the ones who were raped and murdered.

The uncle (the spineless coward who did nothing to help his nieces, sister, or brother-in-law) saying something about his nieces skirt was beyond offensive.

You were supposed to feel sorry for Yusef, the man whose reasonable fear for his life led him to make  bad decisions, and then got murdered for being gay when he tried to find a way to make it right.  I don't think we were supposed to feel sorry for Hector, the show made it pretty clear he was guilty and deserving of imprisonment.  Soledad's transgressions were intended to read as sufficiently awful that we would side with Benson when she does something as extreme as calling ICE to have a woman deported and taken away from her children.  But you can still feel troubled, if not all the way to sympathetic, when seeing her being told that her husband has been killed.  In fact, that's a favorite L&O story structure of mine: the escalating-disaster-case where characters make decisions that are understandable but wrong (trying to keep your guilty husband out of prison), leading to greater pain for everyone than if they had been honest from the start.

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

He didn't like being in danger because he was an illegal immigrant and gay, but he'll criticize his niece's clothes.

I mean, yeah... people can fear being murdered for who they are, and also not be perfect saints at all moments of their lives.  Many people who are discriminated against for one thing turn around and express similar discrimination to other groups.  This was also one of the points they were making, about how people are rarely just one thing.  Yusuf was a victim of homophobia, but also sexist.  Carleen was abused, but also a bigot.  The female ICE agent believed in her basic mission, while also clearly having doubts about how it was unfolding.  Hector was a killer, but also a weak victim.

That being said, story-beats-wise, I don't think we needed the comment from Yusuf about the skirt.  He was already morally compromised enough by not intervening in the crime, adding this just wasn't necessary.  It might have worked better if Yusuf had already revealed his presence at the crime scene to his sister and niece, but the sister had made the choice that he could not testify because of his immigration status (possibly leading to some conflict between mother & daughter over this).  Then she tries to get the information in by lying, Benson can catch the lie and have the same moral calculus about whether she plays along or presses endangered Yusuf to testify, she goes for the latter and that leads to his deportation... all the same basic beats, just re-ordered.

1 hour ago, Gigglepuff said:

Why were the two racists friends with Hector?

I agree this could have used acknowledgement in the actual episode, but I have some relatives just like these white supremacist villains, and they tend to also have the one black or hispanic friend.  It's a "you're one of the (only) good ones" syndrome -- the non-white friend is usually some weak guy whose pathetic need to belong will have him playing along with the ugly racist jokes/rants.  Even jumping in with his own anecdotes about how awful all the other ETHNIC SLURS HERE are.  And the white racist likes having the one self-loathing non-white friend as additional "proof" that his bigotry is correct -- they're all such garbage, even this other ETHNIC SLUR HERE can see it, etc.

Edited May 25, 2017 by JyDanzig

[Bill C.]

I'm generally inclined to give this episode a pass because it got most of its larger beats right, but it--even for SVU--was about as subtle as Carisi's Flanders haircut.  Yusuf "randomly" (the quotes are intentional because, even though the show never went there, I couldn't avoid the thought that someone narc'd on him) being snatched up by ICE, who were utterly jerks on a level with Noah's bitchy case worker from a few seasons back; the random shots at the current administration--and its followers--albeit exponentially more so the later ones from the villains du jour (albeit perhaps being mitigated somewhat by Barba, or was it Dodds, saying that people feel "empowered" to say and do whatever the bleep they want nowadays); the vaguely Mothership-esque nuclear option of threatening to have Soledad deported if she didn't flip on her husband, who ended up getting killed anyway; and finally Liv's actual but virtually last-minute dilemma when the mother tried to throw her under the bus.  I get why she didn't go ahead and back up that lie, it's Olivia Benson and she wouldn't do that...but I think the episode might actually have gained a little bit of karma back if she had actually gone ahead and backed it up and then flipped out on Barba later.

[JyDanzig]

1 hour ago, Gigglepuff said:

Can one really be deported within hours of being arrested and detained? 

Yep.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/09/us/arizona-guadalupe-garcia-de-rayos-protests/

Edited May 25, 2017 by JyDanzig

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah, but those deportations just involved border states. It would take a bit more time to get someone on an international flight to Istanbul, or wherever they were going to send him. But the story required Yusuf be deported, so it was going to happen regardless.