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Good Omens - General Discussion


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On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 4:52 PM, kieyra said:

To the good: the history and development of Aziraphale and Crowley’s romance in episode three is a nice touch.

I loved this. Every historical event, there they were, and Crowley saving Aziraphale time after time.
 

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I have the book but haven't read it, so I went in without expectations. The expectations is what ruins it for people I think. (Game of Thrones) I have pretty much every book Pratchett wrote, and I get the narration, because if you've ever read a Pratchett book there are footnotes on pretty much every page. It's part of why I loved him (may he rest in peace). Has not read or seen American Gods; the only Gaiman work I'm familiar with is Coraline.

Is three episodes in, and loving it.
 

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2 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

And hearing there won't be the Four Bikers of the Apocalypse is disappointing since one of my favorite lines from the book is when another biker asks them what chapter they belong to and they say, "Revelation."

Yeah, with the theme set by all the Crowley/Aziraphale stuff in the previous episodes I would not have expected them to leave that bit out.

I wonder what Ronnie would have driven if he'd been in the book 😉

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I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get 'people covered in fish', but I can see why it got left out.

One omission that I wish they hadn't made was Greasy Johnson and the Johnsonites aka the rival gang to the 'Them'.  Without the existence of the Johnsonites, we don't get the concept that to an external observer (Tadfield residents, humanity) that both sides (Them and Johnsonites, Angels and Demons) are just as bad as each other.  We also don't get Adam's realization the even the good guys need somebody to fight against and that if they ever did succeed in vanquishing their opponents, they'd end up fighting amongst themselves.  And finally we miss out on

the fate of the third baby in the hospital

I am however exceedingly happy that they worked in Crowley's line about 'sauntering vaguely downward'. 

Not so impressed that they made God so obviously American.  (I don't think anybody has called a motorway a highway in the UK since the days of Dick Turpin, and was it really necessary to use an American analogy as to why Adam's aura wasn't visible?)

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Just binge watched all episodes today with my son.  We both loved Sir Terry.  It was truthful from the book as far as I remember.  I read it when it first came out in 1990.  But with my favorite doctor,  Agnes Nutter, Queen, and Dog, even those who haven't read the books should enjoy it.  

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1 hour ago, SilverStormm said:

Dog was a good boi.

Dog is the best! I'm so happy they did him justice. My favorite part of the book is the moment that ferocious hellhound, eager to get his name and do some evil shit, becomes a good doggo who only wants to wag his tail and love his human.

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On 5/31/2019 at 3:43 PM, Rickster said:

I have absolutely no knowledge of the book and have watched the first 1.5 episodes. I’m finding it pretty entertaining.

Same. But I'm 3 in. It is kind of thin on plot, but clearly the entire show is based on Sheen and Tennant playing off one another. They seem to be having a blast. The whole hot foot thing in the church was killing me. 

Hamm going, "what? I like the clothes" and looking at Sheen like FU was a great line reading. 

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book reader, long time fan, watched 2 eps and am loving it. There are few quibbles - nothing important was left out or changed drastically, I think the voiceover works well but I was surprised they went american on God. I didn't love Anathema's big round glasses, they looked non-functional and plain specs would have done. Aziraphale and Crowley are pretty near perfect.

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(edited)

I'm slowly making my way through this show. Not much free time at the moment.

Episode three started off with a fun montage of Aziraphale and Crowley's friendship over the millennia, and Crowley repeatedly saving Aziraphale from his overly idealistic and naive exploits. Sheen and Tennant really do inhabit these characters well. I imagine the costume and makeup people had a lot of fun coming up with their different looks, over the years.

I never got quasi-romantic undertones from their friendship in the book, but it seems to be very present in the show. Obviously, being angels and demons, I don't think they actually have sexual desires, but part of the way Sheen plays Aziraphale's fussy nervousness, and Tennant plays that louche charm, they definitely have that vibe.

It was nice to see the League of Gentlemen - Mark Gatiss, Reece Shearsmith and Steve Pemberton - appearing. This show really feels like an all-star cast of British television. So it kind of confuses me as to why they cast an American actor to play the very Scottish Shadwell. It seems like a role tailor-made for Bill Paterson, who appears very briefly (with a real Scottish accent) as the neighbourhood watch bloke in Tadfield.

Adria Arjona is stunning, and probably too attractive for Anathema (certainly too attractive to go unremarked in a small English village). Jack Whitehall is managing to hide his well-bred good looks quite well. I'm quite impressed with the way he's changed his body language, posture and facial expressions.

The boy playing Adam is really good. He manages to feel like an eleven year old boy, rather than a practised child actor, playing an eleven year old boy. He's a lot more low-key than, say, the Stranger Things kids, but I guess it makes sense, given that he's the Anti-Christ.

I always liked the idea of the weather in Tadfield being exactly as it should be for the time of year - warm and sunny in the summer, snow in the winter - just the sort of thing you'd want as a kid.

Edited by Danny Franks
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Finally made it through the whole series, and have to say it might be one of the few I rewatch, I liked it so much. However, I really did not care for the final confrontation with the horseman, and really disliked the resolution of the bit with Satan, which I found hokey in the extreme. Still, I would watch it again for Sheen and Tennant, and maybe FF through some scenes.

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I really enjoyed this - though I admit some of the parts that didn’t have Sheen and/or Tennant in them dragged a bit and in rewatch I fast-forwarded through some of them. But the two leads were perfect.

If they do another season (please do!), I hope it is (as mentioned up thread) basically just Aziraphale and Crowley dicking around through history. In fact, just rename the show “Aziraphale and Crowley Dick Around through History: The Charming and Surprisingly Sweet Love Story Between an Angel and Demon Who Love Mankind and Each Other Too Much To Do Their Jobs, So They Mostly Half-Ass It and Spend All Their Time Hanging Out, Eating Lunch, and Drinking Copious Amounts of Wine”.

The long episode three flashback was probably the best part of the series, and it was great to see how their friendship started and developed, and how the seeds were there all along - neither of them really all that married to the mission statement of their side and were willing to go against them (Aziraphale, despite being the one who clings to the rules and his official role, caught Crowley’s attention by doing the right wrong thing and not carrying out whatever punishment heaven wanted for Adam and Eve and instead helped them escape and gave them his sword), both, consciously or unconsciously, using their “powers” on each other (Crowley tempting Aziraphale into half-assing their work or lunch, and Aziraphale nudging Crowley to the kinder option), though it wasn’t all that hard since they aren’t that different at their cores, and both do things someone in their role shouldn’t (Crowley is a demon who still talks to God and begs for answers, Aziraphale is a big fan of free will, which was kinda Lucifer’s thing). And while they bicker, they both have infinite amounts of kindness and patience for each other - a somewhat frustrating thing as a viewer is Aziraphale’s blindness to reality a good deal of the time and his resistance to do what is needed to be done to actually make things happen instead of just following the rules. But Crowley seems to understand that it’s Aziraphale’s nature as an angel that makes him blind and why he’s so married to the “official” roles and ideas, and usually has the patience to allow Aziraphale to eventually come around (or knows he just has to try again until he comes around), and knows what a big deal it is when Aziraphale does break the big rules and how hard that is for him (like when he got the holy water for Crowley). That’s why these two were far more fascinating than the Anti-Christ or the end of the world.

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6 hours ago, Kostgard said:

“Aziraphale and Crowley Dick Around through History: The Charming and Surprisingly Sweet Love Story Between an Angel and Demon Who Love Mankind and Each Other Too Much To Do Their Jobs, So They Mostly Half-Ass It and Spend All Their Time Hanging Out, Eating Lunch, and Drinking Copious Amounts of Wine”.

I see no problem with this show. 

Honestly, the whole thing with the witch was only for the last prophecy, so I thought there was a little too much time on them.

6 hours ago, Kostgard said:

That’s why these two were far more fascinating than the Anti-Christ or the end of the world.

What's interesting is that they both exercised the most free will of all. Which I think was the point. 

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I enjoyed that.  It was a fun, surreal ride.  But I didn't really *get* a lot of it.  Specifically I can't figure out why the Witch had all the prophecies on note cards.  Had she transcribed the book onto them?  If so, doesn't that mean that the loss of the book had no consequences to the story?

And did the Anti-Christ just wish Satan out of existence by saying something along the lines of "I wish you had never existed?"  But wouldn't that create a classic paradox since if Satan never existed then how could his progeny have ever existed?  Or did the kid get around that by saying first "I wish you weren't my father" which turned him into a real boy?

Sigh.  Time to go read the book.

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13 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

I enjoyed that.  It was a fun, surreal ride.  But I didn't really *get* a lot of it.  Specifically I can't figure out why the Witch had all the prophecies on note cards.  Had she transcribed the book onto them?  If so, doesn't that mean that the loss of the book had no consequences to the story?

And did the Anti-Christ just wish Satan out of existence by saying something along the lines of "I wish you had never existed?"  But wouldn't that create a classic paradox since if Satan never existed then how could his progeny have ever existed?  Or did the kid get around that by saying first "I wish you weren't my father" which turned him into a real boy?

Sigh.  Time to go read the book.

I think the notecards were a study tool for her, so she could just focus on one or two prophesies at a time without lugging the book around. It made it so leaving the book in Crowley’s car didn’t matter (to her. It was a useful tool to Aziraphale), but that book’s prophesies ended with the events of the show (Agnes’ last prophesy was the one Aziraphale caught about changing faces). So the notecards are essentially “outdated.” The big move was when she destroyed the second volume she received at the end of the series, since that had prophesies that went beyond the events of the show.

Adam didn’t destroy Satan - he controlled reality in that moment and said, “You’re not my dad.” Unmaking himself as Satan’s son. So Satan lost his son/Anti-Christ, and was banished back to hell, but only for the time-being. Crowley was convinced at the end that they would take some time to regroup, then they’d definitely be back.

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1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

If so, doesn't that mean that the loss of the book had no consequences to the story?

In the scene where she was a kid, it was shown she had memorized the book, so the notecards looked like backup.

The book was still important because that's how Az figured out where Adam lived. 

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(edited)

One little kudos I meant to give the show was the consistency with Crowley's eyes - even in scenes where I don't think you are meant to see them (you just get a glance from the side of his glasses). That's one of my bugaboos, when TV/movies just slack off on stuff like that in scenes where they think you can't see/won't be looking (oh, hello Harry Potter movies where 75% of the time you couldn't be arsed to draw a scar on the kid's forehead). So I appreciate Tennant's diligence in wearing the contacts/the CGI team doing a good job with clean up.

Edited by Kostgard
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In the book, they transcribe The Book into notecards to try to place them in order. The prophecies are random and don't make sense out of order.

I think burning the sequel effectively prevents a season 2. Pratchett and Gaiman never wrote a sequel I think purposefully, and if they didn't do it in the last 30 years, I don't think Gaiman would do it on his own, out of respect for Pratchett.

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15 minutes ago, andipandi said:

I think burning the sequel effectively prevents a season 2. Pratchett and Gaiman never wrote a sequel I think purposefully, and if they didn't do it in the last 30 years, I don't think Gaiman would do it on his own, out of respect for Pratchett.

Yeah, Gaiman has been asked many times on social media if there is going to be a season two, and has been pretty unequivocal in saying no, this was a standalone show based on a standalone book, it was a labour of love (more for Pratchett than the project) to get this one season on-screen, and he is now looking forward to getting his normal, non-show-runner life back.

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Episode four. There are so many little details of the book that I always forget, because they're mentioned in passing. Like Atlantis rising from the depths, Tibetans listening from secret tunnels, aliens and all the conspiracy theory stuff that Adam reads and believes. I had a friend at uni who loved reading Fortean Times, and all this stuff was like crack to him.

The general air of a world descending into chaos was palpable, and I liked the conceit of showing it through news reports. And the mundane bureaucracy of Heaven and Hell preparing for Armageddon always tickled me.

I didn't like Death's voice, I have to say. I know this is an early version of Pratchett's Death, but I don't ever read him being as animated and excitable as this one was. I mean, he's an anthropomorphic personification, not a person.

The growing darkness in Adam are cool. Even as a boy who was raised right, he still has this undercurrent of power and a disturbing superiority complex. The boy playing him had just the right amount of creepiness, in those early moments. Then became genuinely unnerving as the episodes progressed. He reminds me a bit of Iwan Rheon, actually.

And man, his speech about "all this environment going on" and how people weren't doing anything to fix the problems couldn't feel much more current, could it?

The scene with Aziraphale dancing with his friends in the "discreet gentlemen's club" was hilarious.

Newt/Anathema doesn't really work, though. In the books, it was awkward enough but Whitehall and Arjona haven't had enough screentime together to even suggest that they have romantic chemistry.

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6 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I didn't like Death's voice, I have to say. I know this is an early version of Pratchett's Death, but I don't ever read him being as animated and excitable as this one was. I mean, he's an anthropomorphic personification, not a person.

Brian Cox is a fine actor, but he isn't James Earl Jones. Reminds me of the Patrician from the Discworld miniseries. Jeremy Irons is good, but why not get Alan Rickman?

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On 6/19/2019 at 7:18 AM, Llywela said:

Yeah, Gaiman has been asked many times on social media if there is going to be a season two, and has been pretty unequivocal in saying no, this was a standalone show based on a standalone book, it was a labour of love (more for Pratchett than the project) to get this one season on-screen, and he is now looking forward to getting his normal, non-show-runner life back.

I haven't seen what Gaiman has said on social media, but in interviews he seems to shift around a bit. I've read interviews where he was all, "Absolutely not" when asked about season two. In others, he says, "Well, if we have a good idea and the will is there, then maybe." 

Either way, it sounds like IF it happens, it won't be for a while and no one should hold their breath (which is a bummer. I will forever champion "Aziraphale and Crowley Dick Around Through History"). But maybe if Amazon drives a dump truck full of money into Gaiman's driveway, he may find some motivation...

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1 hour ago, vavera4ka said:

Yep. And even better is Gaiman's response:

"Gaiman responded to the petition on Twitter, writing: 'I love that they are going to write to Netflix to try and get #GoodOmens cancelled. Says it all really. This is so beautiful ... Promise me you won’t tell them?'"

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Just finished binge watching and thought this was really worthwhile TV. I honestly can't think of a better portrayal of true friendship in recent years. Their chemistry was off the charts. I liked the fairy tale quality of the storytelling, which made the plot palatable in a way the actual Bible is not at all to me.

Anathema and Newt were cute and the kids were likable. I found the various angels too interchangeable, the demons a little less so but still kind of one-note. I don't care about the horsemen. Didn't love the Shadwell character even though I am a huge Michael McKean fan.  Any Derek Jacobi appearance is a win. The Queen soundtrack gets an A+.

I was reminded of a plot in Buffy the Vampire Slayer in which Spike joined Buffy in saving the world because there's dog racing and Manchester United.

On 6/15/2019 at 5:34 PM, Kostgard said:

“Aziraphale and Crowley Dick Around through History: The Charming and Surprisingly Sweet Love Story Between an Angel and Demon Who Love Mankind and Each Other Too Much To Do Their Jobs, So They Mostly Half-Ass It and Spend All Their Time Hanging Out, Eating Lunch, and Drinking Copious Amounts of Wine”.

I would watch the hell out of this.

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I'm a quite late to the game Gaiman fan, and read this in anticipation of watching the series.  There were quite a few times as I was reading that I could hear a Crowley line in Tennant's voice, and the series didn't disappoint!

I was also really excited about Cumberbatch as Satan and then was so sort of befuddled with the ending that I totally forgot it was going to be him and didn't even notice.  Hah!  Oh well.

On 6/10/2019 at 1:20 PM, ganesh said:

Hamm going, "what? I like the clothes" and looking at Sheen like FU was a great line reading. 

Not gonna lie, Hamm wearing those clothes was a highlight for me for sure.   It took me way too long to realize that his eyes were violet, not sure why that was necessary. 

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This is the show that keeps on giving - scratch the surface and there are all sorts of little Easter eggs. I think I am at a point where I just really appreciate the level of thought and detail that went into stuff, especially after disappointments in shows like Game of Thrones, where I feel like I put more thought into than the show runners did (and I'm not even a mega GOT fan),

Like in the flashback to 1941 - you see a statue in the church behind the Nazis that kinda looks like an angel/kinda looks like a bird. It survives the bombing because you see it intact behind Aziraphale when they are standing in the rubble. But we also see it somewhere else - in the current timeline, in Crowley's flat. After dropping Aziraphale off, he clearly went back and stole it (why he did it is up for interpretation - did he steal it because he thought it looked cool? Or for sentimental reasons, like when he took Agnes Nutter's book from Aziraphale's burning shop?). The camera never points right at it in Crowley's flat to be all, "SEE! Look here!" It's just there in the background, for you to notice.

Then in the flashback to Rome, Crowley is pretty clearly in a bad mood when we see him. He just sort of vaguely tells Aziraphale he's in town for a temptation and gives no details. Did it go bad and that's why he's in a bad mood? Or was he given as assignment that grossed him out? Scratch the surface and learn what happened in Rome in 41 AD - Emperor Caligula was assassinated. Something that may not have bothered Crowley too much, but Caligula's wife and baby daughter were also killed, and the show made it clear that Crowley isn't a fan of child murder. Again, they don't straight out tell us something, but if you pay attention and know your history/do your homework, then you probably know why he's in a bad mood.

Or when Crowley tells Aziraphale that he changed his name from "Crawly" and Aziraphale guesses "Mephistopheles" and "Asmodeus" as options he could have changed it to - who are they? Well, Mephistopheles is a demon in Faust who considers serving Satan his own personal hell and prefers to collect souls that are already corrupt versus corrupting them himself. Sounds like Crowley. Asmodeus is the demon associated with lust (again, read into that what you will) but is also seen as a mostly harmless, good-time guy in later Christian works who is all about music and the arts and having a good time. Again, fits the bill.

This show isn't the most cleanly written thing I've watched this year (I think that might go to Fleabag), but I just love it when a show's writers actually put some thought into things and throw out these little hidden gems.

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As with the end of the book, things get a little muddled in the final act. A lot of moving parts that suddenly stop moving and have long conversations.

It's still good, but the pacing wasn't great. And the Four Horsemen were very underwhelming as a presence. Definitely a part of the show that could, and should, have been executed better.

I never minded Newt/Anathema in the book (or paid it much mind, to be honest) but it just didn't work in this adaptation. Not enough time devoted to it, to convince me of any feelings they had for one another.

The show did a great job of making Tadfield look like the most idyllic, perfect English village, of the kind that probably hasn't ever really existed (despite the fervent beliefs of Little England types). 

The conceit of children leading the way to a better world is incredibly prescient, when you have climate change activists like Greta Thunberg and inequality activists. But I guess it's always been that way. Lots of revolutions have been led by students.

The theological question of Heaven and Hell vs Humanity was interesting. I guess you could draw a parallel with populist revolutions of the past, where people got sick and tired of being oppressed and manipulated by their ruling classes. 

All in all, this was a really good adaptation of a really good book. One that has more ideas and invention than it perhaps knows what to do with. I'd be so happy if this was followed up with more adaptations of Sir Terry Pratchett's work. The Discworld adaptations that Sky did a few years ago weren't great, but Amazon should have the ambition and resources to do them more justice.

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10 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The show did a great job of making Tadfield look like the most idyllic, perfect English village, of the kind that probably hasn't ever really existed

They do exist (minus the perfect weather for the time of year), I've driven through or visited plenty of them in my time with a wistful "Why oh why don't I live here" air.

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On 6/26/2019 at 3:54 AM, SilverStormm said:

They do exist (minus the perfect weather for the time of year), I've driven through or visited plenty of them in my time with a wistful "Why oh why don't I live here" air.

They exist physically, for the most part. But that perfect village life of mildly nosy neighbours, children free to roam wholesomely, probably a village pub and a cricket wicket on the village green. It's a fantasy, which is something Pratchett and Gaiman were suggesting by having it made real in the mind of a ten year old boy.

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36 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

They exist physically, for the most part. But that perfect village life of mildly nosy neighbours, children free to roam wholesomely, probably a village pub and a cricket wicket on the village green. It's a fantasy, which is something Pratchett and Gaiman were suggesting by having it made real in the mind of a ten year old boy.

Oh yes, the idyllic vision is one of long bygone days. Still, the village pub and cricket or bowling greens are usually nice.

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1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

They exist physically, for the most part. But that perfect village life of mildly nosy neighbours, children free to roam wholesomely, probably a village pub and a cricket wicket on the village green. It's a fantasy, which is something Pratchett and Gaiman were suggesting by having it made real in the mind of a ten year old boy.

We had that when I was growing up, minus the cricket wicket. I miss that. One street I lived on, close to Heathrow airport, had three pubs along the long road (Sipson Road). The one at the end, had a garden, so people could sit outside and enjoy the weather, or sit with children. I've just checked their facebook page, and now I'm homesick. They featured a video, telling people to come in and get their Sunday roast. 

Trying to link a picture.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g191261-d3372586-r575888894-The_Plough-West_Drayton_Greater_London_England.html#photos;geo=191261&detail=3372586&ff=278707351&albumViewMode=hero&aggregationId=101&albumid=101&baseMediaId=278707351&thumbnailMinWidth=50&cnt=30&offset=-1&filter=7&autoplay=

Edited by Anela
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Late to the party but I just binged it today and it was perfectly lovely. After I realized that Neil Gaiman isn't for me (I couldn't finish American Gods, because I was terribly bored), I didn't quite know what to expect but David Tennant in the trailer made the decision for me. Michael Sheen and him were wonderful together. I actually wanted at least one more episode of their adventures through human history.

The non-apocalypse was perfectly predictable, but overall, I really liked this. I actually thought that the holy water and the fire wouldn't kill them because they weren't on the two sides anymore, so the revelation Sorry! at the end was a bit disappointing. Still, unexpected in a different way.

And the soundtrack was perfect!

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On 6/29/2019 at 2:00 AM, Anela said:

We had that when I was growing up, minus the cricket wicket. I miss that. One street I lived on, close to Heathrow airport, had three pubs along the long road (Sipson Road). The one at the end, had a garden, so people could sit outside and enjoy the weather, or sit with children. I've just checked their facebook page, and now I'm homesick. They featured a video, telling people to come in and get their Sunday roast. 

Trying to link a picture.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g191261-d3372586-r575888894-The_Plough-West_Drayton_Greater_London_England.html#photos;geo=191261&detail=3372586&ff=278707351&albumViewMode=hero&aggregationId=101&albumid=101&baseMediaId=278707351&thumbnailMinWidth=50&cnt=30&offset=-1&filter=7&autoplay=

Sunday roast at a village pub, lurverly. Now I might have to go do that today...

3 hours ago, JoeyCrown said:

As an American I am entitled to say that Brits pull off this type of show better than us. Anathema in particular I found dull.

It's due to our national quirkiness I expect. Heh.

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I'm about half way through the book and I'm loving it even more than the show.  It's a treat to be able to put faces and voices to the characters.  Initially I was hearing Frances McDormand's narrative, but somewhere in I started hearing Neil Gaiman instead.  It's delightful and fills in some blanks.

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I know nothing about the book and the only reason I watched is because Amazon has started advertising between episodes of shows (which I was annoyed by, but on the other hand it worked?) and this looked good. I binged it today and really enjoyed it. I do think I need to rewatch because at times I was distracted but it was definitely enjoyable. 

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On 6/19/2019 at 9:18 AM, Llywela said:

Yeah, Gaiman has been asked many times on social media if there is going to be a season two, and has been pretty unequivocal in saying no, this was a standalone show based on a standalone book, it was a labour of love (more for Pratchett than the project) to get this one season on-screen, and he is now looking forward to getting his normal, non-show-runner life back.

I don't want a second season as I loved this so much I don't want to see it get run into the ground as so many shows have happen to them. 

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On 12/16/2019 at 9:32 AM, libgirl2 said:

I don't want a second season as I loved this so much I don't want to see it get run into the ground as so many shows have happen to them. 

I decided that if they do more, it should really all be like the flashback in episode 3. I'm all for putting Sheen and Tennant in period costumes and seeing what Aziraphale and Crowley were up to at important points in history. But they got their happy ending at the close of this series, so no need to return to them in modern times.

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I'm so glad I came back to read more of this thread. Somehow I missed episode 3 completely! I suspect I fell asleep and didn't realize it. All I remember is seeing episode 4 and wondering why such a big leap in the story.

It was the best episode of all I think!

I don't know why there would be talk of a "second season" - it's a book adaptation of a book with a clear beginning, middle, and end. 

On the other hand, Sheen and Tennant were absolutely perfect and amazing and I'd be fine with a show just with them.

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