Good Omens - General Discussion

[AnimeMania]

Edited June 30, 2023 by AnimeMania

[AnimeMania]

[AnimeMania]

[JustHereForFood]

 

[andromeda331]

It looks like it's going to be great!

[AnimeMania]

[AnimeMania]

[AnimeMania]

[JustHereForFood]

 

[AnimeMania]

[chitowngirl]

Looks like all 6 episodes of season 2 have dropped and are available!

[AnimeMania]

Good Omens Season 2      July 28, 2023    Prime Video    

Episodes 1-6       Titles and Descriptions

Spoiler

S02.E01: Chapter 1: The Arrival

Retired angel Aziraphale and retired demon Crowley’s lives are upended when a visitor arrives on the doorstep of Aziraphale’s bookshop, bringing chaos. Local shopkeepers Maggie and Nina get locked in to Nina’s coffee shop when Crowley loses his temper. Heaven and Hell are suspicious, and Crowley and Aziraphale have a disagreement.

S02.E02: Chapter 2: The Clue featuring the minisode A Companion to Owls

Heaven and Hell are determined to find the missing angel. An overheard song provides Aziraphale with a Clue. Crowley and Aziraphale visit the pub to discuss ways that humans fall in love. While almost 5,000 years ago Crowley is sent to inflict punishments on the righteous Job, God’s favourite person, as Aziraphale learns at first hand about temptation, and what Gabriel will and won't believe.

S02.E03: Chapter 3: I Know Where I'm Going featuring the minisode The Resurrectionists

Heaven sends the angel Muriel in disguise to spy on Aziraphale and Crowley. Aziraphale drives to Edinburgh in pursuit of his Clue, and learns a little about a lot. The couple’s visit to Edinburgh in 1827 involves graverobbery, a statue and an unfortunate encounter with a vial of laudanum. In the present, Crowley is in charge of the bookshop, and is disappointed by human beings and the weather.

S02.E04: Chapter 4: The Hitchhiker featuring the minisode Nazi Zombie Flesheaters 

Aziraphale's good deed of picking up a hitchhiker on his way back to Soho, proves to be a serious mistake. In 1941 Crowley and Aziraphale encounter some surprising adversaries, old and new, as the Nazi spies who almost entrapped Aziraphale return as Zombies from the dead, intent on preventing him from attempting a Bullet Catch on the West End Stage.

S02.E05: Chapter 5: The Ball

Aziraphale tries to bring Maggie and Nina together by organizing a meeting of the Whickber Street Shopkeepers and Street Traders Association. In Hell, Shax is determined to launch a full scale attack on the bookshop, with a legion of demons at her command. Nina's heart is broken, as is a bookshop window. Gabriel has a close encounter with Mrs Sandwich and a small plate of cakes.

S02.E06: Chapter 6: Every Day
(Season Finale)

Crowley becomes a Heavenly bee and learns the truth about the Armageddon sequel. Aziraphale defends his bookshop from Shax's army and reveals his halo, Maggie and Nina become warriors, and Jim the assistant bookseller gets some hot chocolate. Crowley and Aziraphale get to the bottom of the mystery of the Matchbox. The Metatron brings an oatmilk latte, along with a final offer.

[AnimeMania]

The 2014 six part adaptation of Good Omens by BBC Radio 4 is once again available to stream for free on BBC Sounds. This is an adaptation of the 1990 fantasy novel by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett, where an angel and a demon try to save the world from an apocalypse. All 6 episodes will be made available, but all may not have been upload at the time of this writing. The audio program stars Mark Heap as Aziraphale and Peter Serafinowicz as Crowley. Louise Brealy, Phil Davis, Mark Benton, Colin Morgan, Paterson Joseph, Josie Lawrence, Jim Norton, Adam Thomas Wright, Hollie Burgess, Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett co-star. 

[greekmom]

I saw all 6 episodes. Waited for 4 years now we have to wait for 4 more.  I liked it overall and was sad when I finished 6.  Episode 4 was the least best.

Spoiler

Likes:

Aziraphale & Crowley and the kiss

Aziraphale and Crowley both are all for humanity and protecting humans. While both heaven and hell are only looking out for their own interests and humans be damned. (no pun intended)

Gabriel redemption from last season and his relationship with Beelzebub. Guess that's the last we see of Hamm.

Aziraphale and Crowley during the Job scenes

Dislikes:

Aziraphale being naive in thinking he can change heaven and have them all pro human.

Crowley's heart broken

Muriel. She got a bit annoying

People not mentioning the blatant fact that Nina was in an abusive relationship. For goodness sake.

The Job kids. I was ready to smite them myself. 

 

 

[bybrandy]

I don't think anybody saw enough of Nina's abusive relationship to know that it was an abusive relationship.  There were red flags but I'm not sure that what Nina actually said about Lindsay was enough to lead to intervention.   And I really liked that Nina was taking the time to heal post relationship. 

Things I liked.  

John Hamm.   

Aziraphale with Crowley's car.  The negotiaton.  The car's reaction.  The chat.  LOVE.  

Every mention of Jane Austin.  

Aziraphale chatting up all the shop owners and finding there perfect book.  

Things I didn't like.   

The Zombies, bits falling off is one of my squicks.   

Things I'm meh about the grave robbing.  The ethical question was all good butt it was slow and not enough alone tie with Crowley an Aziraphale.   

The children of Job were annoying but in the way children of privilege who have not yet been personally tested an be, and the rest of the Job interactions were quite good.  

The ending is all good if and only if we get season 3.   

[greekmom]

57 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

The children of Job were annoying but in the way children of privilege who have not yet been personally tested an be, and the rest of the Job interactions were quite good.  

I like that Job's wife caught on quick meanwhile Job was the slow one.

[Jodithgrace]

Has anybody seen the first episode? Hilarious. Jon Hamm is really funny as amnesiac Gabriel. 

[Aulty]

I enjoyed the side plots more than the main story - it dragged on a bit, didn't it? And it was one of those 'everything is revealed in the end' affairs. The play between C and A wasn't as playful with an undercurrent of forbidden as it was in the first series. At least not until the end. TBH I think the setup for a potential series 3 has peeked my interest more already than this one.
Zombies I can do without, and there should've been a funnier, flirtier sequence from the past to counterbalance the body snatcher bit. I loved the seamstress bit.

[DoctorAtomic]

I really, really hope Jon Hamm went full starkers for the scene in the opener. Honestly, the show is worth the three of them just popping around.

I only watched the first episode. It's clearly setup. I laughed at the 'they barely noticed' and the cut to the alarms going off.

I do like all the sending up of the bible stories because they're so ridiculous. 

Episode 2
The whole Jane Austen spy, thief throwaway was brilliant. I'm sure we all are quite pleased with a scene featuring Five and Ten(Fourteen). I enjoyed the Job plot because it was so capricious, and Crowley even knew the whole deal was stupid. 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by DoctorAtomic

[Jessi85]

Quote

I'm sure we all are quite pleased with a scene featuring Five and Ten(Fourteen).

More than that, Peter Davison (Job, Five) is David Tennant's father-in-law, and Job's son was played by Ty Tennant, DT's son and Peter Davison's grandson.

[SoMuchTV]

I'm about half way through S2. I feel like I must be missing something obvious, but can someone explain the references to "minisodes" in some of the episode titles?  For example, Chapter 2: The Clue featuring the minisode A Companion to Owls.

I tried to watch all the way through the end credits (even though Prime makes that very hard to do), thinking there might be something at the end, but no.  Are they just referring to the "B plot"?

[bybrandy]

The minisodes are the bits in the past in each episode so the begining at the dawn of everything, the parts with Job, The bits with the body snatchers, and the zombie bits.   If it is flashback to their past it is a "minisode".   

[SoMuchTV]

1 hour ago, bybrandy said:

The minisodes are the bits in the past in each episode so the begining at the dawn of everything, the parts with Job, The bits with the body snatchers, and the zombie bits.   If it is flashback to their past it is a "minisode".   

Thanks - I was just coming back here to post after watching E4 that I came to that conclusion.  Basically just the flashbacks, I guess.

[SHD]

The zombie bits weren’t my favorite but I loved seeing the Inside No. 9 guys in an episode together!

[non sequitur]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think Jon Hamm was that funny after the first introduction. It seemed to drag.

Nina and Maggie are a bit forced, but it also seems as if Nina is annoyed by Maggie.

It's also jarring that Miranda Richardson is a completely different character.

[Starchild]

45 minutes ago, SHD said:

The zombie bits weren’t my favorite but I loved seeing the Inside No. 9 guys in an episode together!

Apparently it was a full-fledged League of Gentlemen reunion, if not all in the same scenes.

ETA: 3 acted in the same scenes, one was a writer.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Starchild

[AngieBee1]

Crowley is still moving too fast for Aziraphale.

[MissLucas]

Was I the only one who got a big grin out of Crowley trying on the Fez?

The Jane Austen bits and the whole Job plot were my favorites. A couple of weeks ago I talked to a friend about the fact that nobody ever bothered about Job's wife who just got caught up in the whole gambit and was treated as plot device who uttered some defeatist lines. Finally someone gave her voice!

Edited July 31, 2023 by MissLucas

[greekmom]

12 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Was I the only one who got a bit grin out of Crowley trying on the Fez?

 

and the Dr. Who reference.

[Starchild]

Did anyone else get the feeling that the Metatron has something up his sleeve? The looks he kept throwing Aziraphale seemed quite suspicious to me.

I know there's something out there called the "coffee theory", which I presume is something about the Metatron doing something to the coffee so that when Aziraphale drank it (something the Metatron was very insistent on) he would become more malleable, more likely to take the new job.

But honestly Aziraphale didn't seem to be acting any differently to me.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Starchild

[Llywela]

10 hours ago, non sequitur said:

It's also jarring that Miranda Richardson is a completely different character.

Nina was also in season one as a different character.

4 hours ago, Starchild said:

Did anyone else get the feeling that the Metatron has something up his sleeve? The looks he kept throwing Aziraphale seemed quite suspicious to me

Well, yes, he just manipulated Aziraphale in quite a masterful fashion to persuade him to do something he absolutely categorically did not want to do going into the conversation. And the Metatron then said out loud what he has up his sleeve - preparation for the second coming. In other words, another form of armageddon, which he did not warn Aziraphale about before persuading him to accept the new job, knowing full well that Aziraphale would not be on board.

[Starchild]

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Well, yes, he just manipulated Aziraphale in quite a masterful fashion to persuade him to do something he absolutely categorically did not want to do going into the conversation. And the Metatron then said out loud what he has up his sleeve - preparation for the second coming. In other words, another form of armageddon, which he did not warn Aziraphale about before persuading him to accept the new job, knowing full well that Aziraphale would not be on board.

Well yes, but Aziraphale could always change his mind. Or not cooperate once up there, he's already shown himself to be contrary so they can't just assume he'll go along with something he doesn't want to go along with just because.

It just felt like more than the surface manipulation to me.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Starchild

[storyskip]

10 hours ago, Starchild said:

Did anyone else get the feeling that the Metatron has something up his sleeve? The looks he kept throwing Aziraphale seemed quite suspicious to me.

I know there's something out there called the "coffee theory", which I presume is something about the Metatron doing something to the coffee so that when Aziraphale drank it (something the Metatron was very insistent on) he would become more malleable, more likely to take the new job.

But honestly Aziraphale didn't seem to be acting any differently to me.

Aziraphale's always wanted to believe that Heaven = good. 

The Metatron only had to play on that angle, with a side of "well, with YOU at the helm how could it be anything but good?"  I don't know that the coffee would have had to be doctored in any way to push Aziraphale in that direction.

Like Crowley told Gabriel, Aziraphale wasn't there when Gabriel and the others were perfectly ready, if not eager, to destroy Aziraphale with fire at the end of Season One.  Aziraphale only experienced the Hell side of things and OF COURSE Hell would try to destroy Crowley but HEAVEN would never be so cruel ... /s

So Aziraphale is still pretty faithful to the general idea of Heaven = Good.  

I think, looking back over the flashbacks in particular, we see this set up through the whole of season 2.  Crowley has always questioned, ever since the beginning, and Aziraphale has always held on to Faith.  We saw it with the formation of nebula, with Job, etc.

What I found interesting were the subtle suggestions that Crowley = Samael = Lucifer.

It has been awhile since I read Good Omens but as I recall in the book and then in season 1 it was always made pretty clear that Aziraphale was an angel from the start and Crowley was a demon from the start, and Satan was Satan. There wasn't any suggestion that Crowley was a fallen angel.

I love Neil Gamine.  Full stop, just getting that out there.  He is also the creator of my favorite DC comic series Lucifer. 

Maybe I'm seeing things through that lens, but Season 2 Crowley -in my opinion- was starting to show shades of the philosophy in the Lucifer graphic novels.

In the graphic novels, Michael and Samael (Lucifer) are used by Yahweh in conjunction to create the universe. Michael creates matter and Samael brings the power of light = Big Bang. Sound familiar? In Season 2 we see Crowley as an angel. We see him using the "matter/idea" created by 'upstairs' but he does the "Let there be light" setting off the Big Bang/creation of the universe.

Also in the graphic novels, just like in the final episode of Season 2, Lucifer is perfectly capable of going back up and into Heaven and still has all his angelic clout when he's in the Silver City.  Same as we see with Crowley, plus there is the line from Muriel about "You have to be a throne or dominion or higher..." and Crowley has no trouble accessing that level.

I don't know if the way the book and season 1 established things would allow for Crowley to ultimately = Lucifer. But I am thinking his angelic name might be Samael

[Starchild]

29 minutes ago, storyskip said:

Aziraphale's always wanted to believe that Heaven = good. 

The Metatron only had to play on that angle, with a side of "well, with YOU at the helm how could it be anything but good?"  I don't know that the coffee would have had to be doctored in any way to push Aziraphale in that direction.

Like Crowley told Gabriel, Aziraphale wasn't there when Gabriel and the others were perfectly ready, if not eager, to destroy Aziraphale with fire at the end of Season One.  Aziraphale only experienced the Hell side of things and OF COURSE Hell would try to destroy Crowley but HEAVEN would never be so cruel ... /s

So Aziraphale is still pretty faithful to the general idea of Heaven = Good.  

I think, looking back over the flashbacks in particular, we see this set up through the whole of season 2.  Crowley has always questioned, ever since the beginning, and Aziraphale has always held on to Faith.  We saw it with the formation of nebula, with Job, etc.

What I found interesting were the subtle suggestions that Crowley = Samael = Lucifer.

It has been awhile since I read Good Omens but as I recall in the book and then in season 1 it was always made pretty clear that Aziraphale was an angel from the start and Crowley was a demon from the start, and Satan was Satan. There wasn't any suggestion that Crowley was a fallen angel.

I love Neil Gamine.  Full stop, just getting that out there.  He is also the creator of my favorite DC comic series Lucifer. 

Maybe I'm seeing things through that lens, but Season 2 Crowley -in my opinion- was starting to show shades of the philosophy in the Lucifer graphic novels.

In the graphic novels, Michael and Samael (Lucifer) are used by Yahweh in conjunction to create the universe. Michael creates matter and Samael brings the power of light = Big Bang. Sound familiar? In Season 2 we see Crowley as an angel. We see him using the "matter/idea" created by 'upstairs' but he does the "Let there be light" setting off the Big Bang/creation of the universe.

Also in the graphic novels, just like in the final episode of Season 2, Lucifer is perfectly capable of going back up and into Heaven and still has all his angelic clout when he's in the Silver City.  Same as we see with Crowley, plus there is the line from Muriel about "You have to be a throne or dominion or higher..." and Crowley has no trouble accessing that level.

I don't know if the way the book and season 1 established things would allow for Crowley to ultimately = Lucifer. But I am thinking his angelic name might be Samael

Interesting points. Couple of questions:

• I had thought all demons were fallen angels. Were some demons created after the Fall?
• If Crowley might be Lucifer, then who came out of the ground in S1? Didn't they actually call him Lucifer (or Satan, same thing)?

[storyskip]

5 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Interesting points. Couple of questions:

• I had thought all demons were fallen angels. Were some demons created after the Fall?
• If Crowley might be Lucifer, then who came out of the ground in S1? Didn't they actually call him Lucifer (or Satan, same thing)?

Both good questions.  

In Neil Gamine's Lucifer comics demons are actually the children of Lilith, who was Adam's first wife, with Fallen angels as the Top Tier commanders of Hell.  Just like there are tiers of angels in Heaven.

I had always figured in Good Omen's canon, Aziraphale and Crowley were equal tiers in Heaven and Hell respectively.  Angel of the East Gate is a couple steps down from an Archangel, and Crowley was never addressed as a Grand Duke or even a Duke of Hell, but he was the ambassador for Earth, so a couple steps down from the Dark Council

It was a bit of a surprise seeing Crowley as an angel, but then I was like "okay, yeah that works" except they went the step further and made him the Lightbringer, and I was like "wait, what??" AND doubled down on him questioning Yahweh, which has always been a personality trait attributed to Samael. 

I don't think Crowley is meant to be Lucifer/Satan in Good Omens canon, because like you said, we've seen that character in Season 1 and in the books, but I do feel like Season 2 we got hints that Crowley is a few more rungs higher up the ladder than anyone thought in Season 1.  

[Starchild]

35 minutes ago, storyskip said:

but I do feel like Season 2 we got hints that Crowley is a few more rungs higher up the ladder than anyone thought in Season 1.  

Agreed. A lot of fans think he might have been Raphael, whom we never hear about being around in Heaven.

[storyskip]

6 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Agreed. A lot of fans think he might have been Raphael, whom we never hear about being around in Heaven.

That could be a good fit!

I lean towards Samael, but Raphael makes a lot of sense also.

[Ceindreadh]

5 hours ago, storyskip said:

What I found interesting were the subtle suggestions that Crowley = Samael = Lucifer.

It has been awhile since I read Good Omens but as I recall in the book and then in season 1 it was always made pretty clear that Aziraphale was an angel from the start and Crowley was a demon from the start, and Satan was Satan. There wasn't any suggestion that Crowley was a fallen angel.

 

From the Good Omens Dramatis Personae -

Crowley (An Angel who did not so much Fall, as Saunter Vaguely Downwards)

Satan (A Fallen Angel; the Adversary)

Is it bad that I didn't actually need to open the book for Crowley's description?  (although I did open it just to get the capitalisation correct)

 

[storyskip]

1 minute ago, Ceindreadh said:

From the Good Omens Dramatis Personae -

Crowley (An Angel who did not so much Fall, as Saunter Vaguely Downwards)

Satan (A Fallen Angel; the Adversary)

Is it bad that I didn't actually need to open the book for Crowley's description?  (although I did open it just to get the capitalisation correct)

 

Ah yes!  It has been awhile since I read the book.  Okay so Crowley was always an angel, but I didn't think he was Lightbringer levels.  Though that gives more weight to the idea that maybe he was originally Raphael!

[Megras]

3 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

From the Good Omens Dramatis Personae -

Crowley (An Angel who did not so much Fall, as Saunter Vaguely Downwards)

Satan (A Fallen Angel; the Adversary)

Is it bad that I didn't actually need to open the book for Crowley's description?  (although I did open it just to get the capitalisation correct)

 

That description of Crowley has always stuck with me too. It gives such a clear insight into his character.

[sharifa70]

I loved Aziraphale and the Bentley, and David Tennant’s ability to fully embody Crowley even with half his face covered by sunglasses for most of the show makes me appreciate him even more. 

The season felt unfocused for me, though. I think the “minisodes” were great and would have been happy with just those, but the envelope story felt tacked-on and forced. We didn’t see enough of Nina or Maggie for me to care about them at all. The kiss between Crowley and Aziraphale was just weird to me, not in a pearl-clutching way but because it seemed unnecessary; adding that romantic element seems so…earthly…even for the two of them (and yes, I felt the same way about Beelzebub and Gabriel, which wasn’t even earned). 

I will 100% watch a season 3 if it happens but I’d like to see a much more tightly-plotted main story rather than finding myself spending most of every episode wondering what any of this had to do with Gabriel going missing and why Heaven was so mad about it.

[CoyoteBlue]

4 hours ago, storyskip said:

Ah yes!  It has been awhile since I read the book.  Okay so Crowley was always an angel, but I didn't think he was Lightbringer levels.  Though that gives more weight to the idea that maybe he was originally Raphael!

Crowley has enjoyed a kind of favored status despite mostly being on everyone's shitlist Downstairs? (Or at least on everyone's annoyance list...) He's not exactly safe but he has a lot of freedom and independence in his appearance and actions that no one else in Hell seems to, except maybe Beelzebub.

I can buy him having been one of the upper ranks of angels AND not really having Fallen like the others.

He might have said "Let there be light!" but it wasn't the Big Bang - just a nebula. 🪐

 

ETA: The Gabriel/Beelzebub relationship actually reminds me of a fiction series by Macx about Aziraphale and Crowley getting into an actual relationship after the Antichrist and then eventually assisting Michael and Beelzebub (the beleaguered right-hand entities of their respective deities) as they navigate the same.

Edited July 31, 2023 by CoyoteBlue

[JustHereForFood]

I liked the season overall, but I agree with those who said it was a bit unfocused. Basically, a lot of it felt like a filler, but that's not a bad thing. I would happily watch any random scenes with those two.

My only problem is this:

On 7/29/2023 at 3:25 AM, bybrandy said:

The ending is all good if and only if we get season 3.   

 

I understand that Neil said that his plan is to use the material he and Terry were talking about for a possible seques for season 3 and to have season 2 as a sort of bridge between them. In which case it makes sense that it was less focused and coherent. But unless I'm mistaken, season 3 is not guaranteed at this point, so the ending can still end up being the end, which would be quite depressing. I hope series like this would not end seasons on a cliffhanger. 

I guess I would have preferred to have some neutral ending to this season and then to have season 3 begin with the scene we got at the end of episode 6. Less dramatic, but also less nerve-wracking for some of us who take it too seriously 😉 .

And I obviously read too much fanfiction, because I swear, every scene from this season was something I've read in at least one fanfiction (again, not a bad thing, but nobody will convince me that Neil never reads any 😄).

[Haleth]

I'm only a couple episodes in and don't want to read this thread yet, but after season one I said I'd love it if they'd make a series with just Aziraphale and Crowley bumbling their way through history.  My wish has been granted with the minisodes!

[DoctorAtomic]

I didn't think that was the end of this series because it was so abrupt. There just wasn't much plot to it. Everything added up; the match box, the song, etc., but it all kind of dumped on at the end. 

It took a while for either of them to question Gabriel at all. I thought Az would have been fine keeping him there forever, but that's not really a solution. 

I certainly hope there is another season because it's really a downer ending. 

[Starchild]

11 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

And I obviously read too much fanfiction, because I swear, every scene from this season was something I've read in at least one fanfiction (again, not a bad thing, but nobody will convince me that Neil never reads any 😄).

Same. And really, where else would a romance between Gabriel and Beelzebub have come from? 

[AnimeMania]

More information about the Good Omens: the Official (and Ineffable) Graphic Novel and how to get a copy.

Good Omens: the Official (and Ineffable) Graphic Novel Kickstarter Page

[Starchild]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:22 PM, Starchild said:

Did anyone else get the feeling that the Metatron has something up his sleeve? The looks he kept throwing Aziraphale seemed quite suspicious to me.

OK I've been giving this some thought (obsessed? i don't know what you mean) and I think I have an idea.

As we all know the Metatron easily manipulated Aziraphale because he knew precisely how Aziraphale would respond. He also knew exactly how Crowley would respond to the offer of rising back to angel status.

And despite their cooperation to avert Armageddon, the Metatron correctly predicted that Aziraphale was still just enough in that "good angel", self-denying mindset that would make him willing to choose Heaven over Crowley. It's a near thing, though, because he knows the strength of the relationship between them, and what they can accomplish together.

So, what I think is, the offer to Aziraphale is not about bringing him back to Heaven and putting him in charge. It's about separating him from Crowley, so that they don't, once again, ruin whatever new plan they have.

I think that's why Derek Jacobi plays it with such slyness. When we, the audience, observe the Metatron as he interacts with Aziraphale, we can see this is not a straight offer, there's subtext there. He's very satisfied at the  results of his negotiation, and I think that derives not strictly from Aziraphale's return to Heaven, but from separation of Aziraphale and Crowley.

My 2 cents.

[Llywela]

10 hours ago, Starchild said:

OK I've been giving this some thought (obsessed? i don't know what you mean) and I think I have an idea.

As we all know the Metatron easily manipulated Aziraphale because he knew precisely how Aziraphale would respond. He also knew exactly how Crowley would respond to the offer of rising back to angel status.

And despite their cooperation to avert Armageddon, the Metatron correctly predicted that Aziraphale was still just enough in that "good angel", self-denying mindset that would make him willing to choose Heaven over Crowley. It's a near thing, though, because he knows the strength of the relationship between them, and what they can accomplish together.

So, what I think is, the offer to Aziraphale is not about bringing him back to Heaven and putting him in charge. It's about separating him from Crowley, so that they don't, once again, ruin whatever new plan they have.

I think that's why Derek Jacobi plays it with such slyness. When we, the audience, observe the Metatron as he interacts with Aziraphale, we can see this is not a straight offer, there's subtext there. He's very satisfied at the  results of his negotiation, and I think that derives not strictly from Aziraphale's return to Heaven, but from separation of Aziraphale and Crowley.

My 2 cents.

There were multiple stages of manipulation, as well. Validation, which Aziraphale so rarely gets. Buying a coffee for him, a treat he is known to respond to; Aziraphale values tasty things. Removing him from his bookshop, his home turf. Positioning Muriel to look after the bookshop, someone Aziraphale likes and would be prepared to trust. And so on.

But it wasn't just about separating Aziraphale from Crowley, because offering redemption to Crowley was the final stage of the manipulation. I think removing one or both from Earth to prevent further interference was the main aim of the game, rather than simply separating them. And Aziraphale said no at every step along the way until the offer of redemption for Crowley was made. That was what swung him.

[Starchild]

5 hours ago, Llywela said:

Aziraphale said no at every step along the way until the offer of redemption for Crowley was made. That was what swung him.

One might wonder why he followed through when that redemption was rejected, but I think there were a few things that influenced it:

• Humiliation - since being an angel (aligned with Heaven or not) is something that Aziraphale values so highly, Crowley's rejection of angel status, especially when offered by Aziraphale himself, may feel a little like rejection of Aziraphale.
• Shock - that kiss really threw him. Between the offer of Heavenly validation and the offer of overt love from Crowley, his head was spinning right off his shoulders
• Embarrassment - he didn't want to show vulnerability, especially in front of the Metatron
• Politeness - he had told the Metatron he'd come back and run things, and it's such an integral part of his personality to keep his promises

Man, the acting Sheen did with his face through that scene was masterful. Right after the kiss he's so off-center he's in shock, he's crying, his world is upside down.

And that final shift in his face before he offers forgiveness:

• Hesitation - he wants this but he's still afraid. It's still so hard to shake off the fear of offending Heaven that he's lived with literally all his life.
• Anger - why has Crowley chosen this exact moment to openly declare his love? Why did he wait until now, when things with Heaven are about to change for the better? Why couldn't he have done it before things got crazy again, or after they calmed down?
• Resolve - it just can't happen now. It was wrong of Crowley to choose this moment. And that's what comes out.

And Aziraphale's face in the elevator. Trying and failing and trying again to convince himself he's made the right decision. Or that, if it's the wrong decision, it can still be salvaged at some point in the future.

Poor boys.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Starchild