S29.E06: Double U-Turn Ahead

[GaT]

I wish the show would cast more people like Becca & Floyd, & less people like Brooke or Michael. Team Fun is such a pleasure to watch, & you don't get any of the annoying drama, just racing.

[JunebugWA]

17 minutes ago, GaT said:

I wish the show would cast more people like Becca & Floyd, & less people like Brooke or Michael. Team Fun is such a pleasure to watch, & you don't get any of the annoying drama, just racing.

I wish the show stop casting people like Brooke. 

Didn't know this was "Amazing Race - Mean Girls Edition" :) 

[mertensia]

I'm guessing Brooke is one of those women who never learned to just shut up and do something. I bet her parents thought  her crying and whining was cute.

I've been to Lake Como! Mainly a teeny-tiny village on the lake and Bellagio but I've been there. We took the ferry from Bellagio to Varenna then up over the Spluga Pass.

The tram looked like fun! 

[Irlandesa]

The scenery was beautiful once again.  And I was so thrilled when Floyd and Becca pulled out ahead for the win.  It really was down to the wire.

As for the Uturn choice, it is a strategic choice, IMO.  No, they may not have been the strongest team who would threaten to win but there have been many times when those strong teams managed to finish both tasks and beat other teams or were saved by a NEL.  

Part of the strategy is surviving into the next round and ensuring another team goes helps out. That's why I sometimes think there is more value in targeting a weak team.

[Nalan]

5 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Bye Ashton.  At least you aren't "stuck" with Vanck any longer.

And yet she wasn't complaining about that anymore.  She seemed truly comfortable with Vanck now on this leg.  I actually appreciated him comforting her when they knew it was a huge possibility that they were going home.

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Matt's Spiderman 2.0 climb was just as awesome, but him and Redmond just keep falling short of the other teams. Also, Redmond always has to say something questionable. This time, I was bugged by his "Well, I just want first place". I know it's a stupid thing to get hung up on, but it was.

This is why I'm glad that the entire first half of the race thus far, they still haven't nailed a win.  They probably will at a later point, but for now . . . glad they haven't.

So anyway, the team analyses:

Becca & Floyd: Glad they finally won a leg, but they had a lucky break with a few things.  First of all, after Floyd botched his first try at the Roadblock, they got really, really lucky that they were bunched up on the ferry for the night.  Then, they were lucky that Liz & Michael completely lost their way to the dock to head for the Grab a Hold Detour.  And then, after losing their lead due to bad directions from an unreliable local, they got lucky that Matt & Redmond's boat driver couldn't park for beans.  Nonetheless, they still did their tasks well enough that all of these lucky breaks didn't bother me.  They got their first win, and good on them, and good on Becca for coaching Floyd on how to belay, using her climbing instructor profession.

Matt & Redmond: Whew!  I was feeling my blood boil, worrying that they'd finally win the leg on which their biggest "enemies" were sent packing.  And why not worry?  Despite Redmond botching the Roadblock once, they lucked out with the ferry bunch-up, lucked out again that no one saw the threat they posed and U-Turned them instead of Vanck & Ashton, and they lucked out even more that Becca & Floyd got bad directions to the Grab a Hold Detour.  But fortunately, that was canceled out when their boat driver had trouble docking their boat, so they wound up in second.  It is interesting that the alpha-male team isn't dominating the way I feared they would, but I'm enjoying that they aren't.  At least for now.  I'm sure they'll probably take home a win on a later leg.

Tara & Joey: Finally out of first, but I think they actually ran a better leg than the two teams in front of them.  Tara nailed the Roadblock by working with Michael.  Then, they chose not to play the high school game of the other teams and avoided the U-Turn altogether.  They took the Make a Mold Detour, and sadly, due to how long it took, they lost their lead.  Still, they clocked in third, and it was a well-deserved finish for them.  It's really good to see them still working together very well.

Liz & Michael: Glad to see them recover after what'd happened on the previous leg.  Michael rocked out the Roadblock by working with Tara, and he and Liz got the second release time.  I was disappointed that they decided to play Brooke & Scott's game and U-Turned the only moderately-threatening Vanck & Ashton rather than a more threatening team like Matt & Redmond.  They blew away their lead with another directional snafu in looking for the dock to the Grab a Hold Detour and lost three places.  But Liz made up some time by climbing well and fast at that Detour.  Fourth place isn't bad, and glad they're back on track.

Brooke & Scott: First of all, Brooke, being a cliquish high-schooler on the race is not something of which to be proud.  That goes for you, too, Scott.  Scott botched the Roadblock once, but they're lucky the social game is so effective with this crop of teams, because they were able to get Becca & Floyd and Liz & Michael to do their dirty work in U-Turning Vanck & Ashton and also block them from U-Turning someone else.  But then, Brooke whines her way through another task, even though she still manages to keep going while doing it (the exact opposite of Flo).  They completed Grab a Hold after quite a few struggles and finish fifth.  Decent job, but they're still near the back.

London & Logan: They seem to be the lowest-key team left.  They have no drama or struggles.  They just do the tasks.  Felt bad for Logan getting shut out of the tram at the Roadblock, but he and London stayed calm and strong, and he finished the task after botching it once.  They had the last release time, but they stayed steady with the Make a Mold Detour, finished it fairly fast, and stayed in the race by coming in sixth.  Good work.

Vanck & Ashton: It sucks for them that it had to end for them this way -- with the race turning into high school, basically.  They may have been annoying, but that's the least of why you should U-Turn someone.  Still, they could've avoided it if Vanck hadn't botched the Roadblock and they'd gotten an earlier release time as a result.  Losing their way to the U-Turn made it worse for them.  But worst of all was that the leg after the ferry was relatively easy in terms of tasks, which made it difficult to catch back up for a U-Turned team.  And since they were the only one to get U-Turned, it was pretty much over for them.  I appreciated that they worked so well together in spite of being such an odd pairing.  And Vanck was sweet to Ashton when she was starting to tear up knowing they might not have been able to catch back up.  Goodbye, you two.  At least you have a possible friendship for life.

Now, having said all of that, I usually like the Double-U-Turn-becomes-a-single-U-Turn strategy.  When Natalie & Nadiya, Jaymes & James, and Trey & Lexi conspired to do just that to get rid of Abbie & Ryan in TAR21, I approved, since at least they were a strong team.  When Tyler & Korey and Burnie & Ashley did the same thing to Brodie & Kurt in TAR28, just last season, I approved, since they were the strongest team in the game by that point.  But something about the conspiracy made by Brooke & Scott against Vanck & Ashton bothered me.  They were a strong team, but not so strong that anyone had to worry about them that much.  They just got rid of them because they didn't like them while ignoring the strong team looking them all right in the face.  As I said before, Matt & Redmond.  Leaving a pair of alpha-males in the race when they could stomp you at any or all physical tasks is just plain stupid.  It just takes me back to the stupidity of Max & Katie, Caroline & Jennifer, and Pam & Winnie leaving their own dangerous allies, Bates & Anthony, in the race just because they liked them so much in TAR22 and going after the harmless Mona & Beth and Joey & Meghan just because they were the allies of the hated Jessica & John.  Because of their stupidity, Bates & Anthony stomped the other teams at every physical task and won the whole race.  If TAR29 ends in that same way, the other teams will only have themselves to blame.

Good tasks, but the U-Turn drama ruined this episode for me.

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Part of the strategy is surviving into the next round and ensuring another team goes helps out. That's why I sometimes think there is more value in targeting a weak team.

Maybe early on, but by mid-race and late in the race, you should be going for the strong teams, not the weak ones.  That's what made the conspiracy look even dumber.

[Nalan]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 9:22 PM, blackwing said:

So now that's two Double U Turns we've seen so far. Is that it for U Turns?  There's only six teams left.  I was surprised that Tara and Joey were eligible to U Turn again, I guess they did away with that rule.

Phil said, in the season preview following the premiere, that there'd be three Double U-Turns, so one more is coming up.

Also, Tara & Joey could U-Turn again since the first one used was a Blind Double U-Turn.  Because you don't use your picture, the one the teams are given at the start of the race to use later, you're eligible to use a regular Double U-Turn later.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Nalan

[HawaiiTVGuy]

This should totally have been a NEL.  They officially haven't had one yet since the previous one was just a continuation leg.  Also, anyone have gossip as to whether Brooke was the instigator of the whole anti-Vanck sentiment or was Mike trying to pretend it was Vanck when everyone knew it was Ashton they didn't like.  

46 minutes ago, Nalan said:

 

Good tasks, but the U-Turn drama ruined this episode for me.

Maybe early on, but by mid-race and late in the race, you should be going for the strong teams, not the weak ones.  That's what made the conspiracy look even dumber.

Totally agree, let's be honest here, none of those teams deserve to win now, this was the most non-strategic use of the U-Turn ever, especially via conspiracy.  They had a chance to potentially conspire to knock out one of the toughest teams, #TeamDouche and it never crossed any of the other teams' minds?  Come on, you are down to 6 teams, this is one of the best shots you will have especially when you know who is going to get to the U-Turn box when, and you have an entire night to conspire.  Liz and Michael should have went straight to Tara and Joey, they know they were the ones that went after Seth and Olive because they were strong, and you tell Tara and Joey, we know you guys are strategic, the strongest team is #TeamDouche, let's double U-Turn them.

Oh well, at least Vanck and Ashton can enjoy the world through sequesterville.  Much less stressful than running the race and in all honesty, I don't think either of them needed the money.

49 minutes ago, Nalan said:

And yet she wasn't complaining about that anymore.  She seemed truly comfortable with Vanck now on this leg.  I actually appreciated him comforting her when they knew it was a huge possibility that they were going home.

This is why I'm glad that the entire first half of the race thus far, they still haven't nailed a win.  They probably will at a later point, but for now . . . glad they haven't.

 

Actually, she comforted him and actually reached out and put her hand on his knee during the boat ride.  

[Bryce Lynch]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

The scenery was beautiful once again.  And I was so thrilled when Floyd and Becca pulled out ahead for the win.  It really was down to the wire.

As for the Uturn choice, it is a strategic choice, IMO.  No, they may not have been the strongest team who would threaten to win but there have been many times when those strong teams managed to finish both tasks and beat other teams or were saved by a NEL.  

Part of the strategy is surviving into the next round and ensuring another team goes helps out. That's why I sometimes think there is more value in targeting a weak team.

Also, if there is a team you can build a consensus against to U turn, it is good strategy to do it.  You guarantee one team gets delayed and you keep the target off of your team.

[Bryce Lynch]

50 minutes ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

This should totally have been a NEL.  They officially haven't had one yet since the previous one was just a continuation leg.  Also, anyone have gossip as to whether Brooke was the instigator of the whole anti-Vanck sentiment or was Mike trying to pretend it was Vanck when everyone knew it was Ashton they didn't like.  

Totally agree, let's be honest here, none of those teams deserve to win now, this was the most non-strategic use of the U-Turn ever, especially via conspiracy.  They had a chance to potentially conspire to knock out one of the toughest teams, #TeamDouche and it never crossed any of the other teams' minds?  Come on, you are down to 6 teams, this is one of the best shots you will have especially when you know who is going to get to the U-Turn box when, and you have an entire night to conspire.  Liz and Michael should have went straight to Tara and Joey, they know they were the ones that went after Seth and Olive because they were strong, and you tell Tara and Joey, we know you guys are strategic, the strongest team is #TeamDouche, let's double U-Turn them.

Oh well, at least Vanck and Ashton can enjoy the world through sequesterville.  Much less stressful than running the race and in all honesty, I don't think either of them needed the money.

Actually, she comforted him and actually reached out and put her hand on his knee during the boat ride.  

There really isn't much difference between a NEL and a TBC leg.  The team that gets to the pit stop last stays in the race.

The U turn strategy was sound enough.  They all agreed on a team, and they made it very unlikely that any of the members of the conspiracy would be eliminated.  It worked like a charm.

They might have targeted a "stronger" team, but a) The other teams seem to like each other a lot, so it might not have been possible to get everyone to agree. b) Other the Scott and Brooke, all the other remaining teams were relatively equal in strength.

[Rachel RSL]

6 hours ago, Ducky said:

Oh you mean like the time Redmond tried to intimidate Vanck loudly- was that cool? 

No and they were called out on it by pretty much everyone here.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Strategically using a U-Turn to ensure that a team goes home doesn't make them bullies. Nobody was cruel to them. Nobody excluded them when they were all hanging out on the ship. Nobody physically threatened them. Nobody bullied them.

Exactly.  Were Vanck and Ashton "bullying" Redmond and Matt when they U turned them, earlier in the race.

If anything, that was far worse.  They "bullied" a disabled veteran.

8 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Tell me these people didn't originally sign up to play Survivor. I've never heard the words "social game" used by so many people on this show. Or "this is not how I want to play the game" (you don't...play the race?) There was even a smattering of Big Brother with the ever-popular "blood on my hands."

And I'm sorry, how was the rock climbing a Detour? One person did the climbing, one person held the rope. It was like a Detour/Roadblock hybrid.

Shocked this wasn't a NEL. Maybe they've done away with them this season?

The rock climbing was clearly a detour.  It was a choice of 1 of 2 tasks and both team members participated.

It is not uncommon for teammates to have individual roles in a joint task.  The sculpture detour is a perfect example.  One person sat there as the "model" and the other did the sculpture  

[TheRabbi]

There was a lot to like about this episode. Gorgeous scenery, good tasks, and I'm even liking several of the teams. But I'm just so over the damn u-turn. That's 2 eliminations now due to stupid high school drama and not racing merit. I just can't stand when the entire episode becomes entirely consumed with a u-turn. Ugh. And I really loathe this season's new u-turn element of placing it before the tasks themselves. How is that fair at all? The teams that excel at the tasks should have the opportunity to complete the tasks quickly to avoid having that stupid penalty, and instead it's now down to whoever has the best cab can use the u-turn first.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

They were ganged up on.  I would call that bullying.  Just because it wasn't to their face (in this leg) doesn't mean it didn't happen.  Mean Girl Brooke even gave voice to it on the mat when she called them "b-list" and said nobody liked them or "wanted to have dinner with them."  I was shocked - I've watched the show since forever, and I've never seen such blatant meanness.  They were u-turned not for strategic reasons, but because they weren't liked.  In my book, that's pretty crappy.

Getting together to eliminate a team is not "bullying".

Ashton was the original "mean girl".  She has belittled and shown contempt for her partner from the start. Plus, she "bullied" a disabled war veteran by U turning his team.

I think there is a reason the teams were all OK with U-Turning Vanck and Ashton.

6 minutes ago, TheRabbi said:

There was a lot to like about this episode. Gorgeous scenery, good tasks, and I'm even liking several of the teams. But I'm just so over the damn u-turn. That's 2 eliminations now due to stupid high school drama and not racing merit. I just can't stand when the entire episode becomes entirely consumed with a u-turn. Ugh. And I really loathe this season's new u-turn element of placing it before the tasks themselves. How is that fair at all? The teams that excel at the tasks should have the opportunity to complete the tasks quickly to avoid having that stupid penalty, and instead it's now down to whoever has the best cab can use the u-turn first.

I think they normally place the U turns before the detours.  IIRC, in some other seasons they placed them before the first task, which made it much more unfair.  At least in this episode the teams earned the opportunity to get to the U turn first by doing well in the dinner tram task.

[JaggedLilPill]

Maybe they weren't bullies, but they were certainly assholes.

Brooke and Mike can go fuck themselves, to be perfectly honest. Their comments at the mat were pretty gross. Brooke, you're not in fucking high school. B-list? Ugh. I cannot.

And the "Vanck's a little...." comment coming from Mike was rich. Wasn't he blabbering on about being the weird guy with a beard in the beginning of the race? Well, pot meet kettle I suppose.

Truthfully, I have less of a problem with them U-turning them and more of a problem with the mat talk. Obviously we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but it came off as very "get rid of the nerdy loser because they just aren't cool enough to hang with us and our super coolness," and quite frankly, seeing people in their mid-to-late 30s having that mentality is just embarrassing. Grow up. 

[xcrayon2215x]

Ashton's comment about being shocked that people of different backgrounds was so stupid. It was a pretty safe bet they would be gone since they got so lost. Hoping for a Final 3 of Tara/Joey, Becca/Floyd and London/Logan.

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Getting together to eliminate a team is not "bullying".

Ashton was the original "mean girl".  She has belittled and shown contempt for her partner from the start. Plus, she "bullied" a disabled war veteran by U turning his team.

I think there is a reason the teams were all OK with U-Turning Vanck and Ashton.

Getting together to eliminate a team because you don't like them and don't want them at the cool kids table is borderline bullying for me. Just because the bullying isn't done to their faces, it doesn't not make it some form of bullying. All of them said, to some extent, that they were putting together this plan solely because they didn't like the team. Also, almost all of the teams have their "mean girl/guy". Redmond, Brooke, Michael, Becca to a very small extent, Ashton. Maybe it's not bullying, per say, but it's definitely not right and it CAN hurt Ashton and Vanck's feelings, since the reasons for eliminating them go FAR beyond the race. Ashton may have made it personal with Matt/Redmond, but they didn't conspire with everyone to ensure that their team would go. They didn't laugh about it behind their backs, and think it was all this funny thing. 

This game is not a pure social game, but some of these teams genuinely think so. That is what I hate about this season; these teams are so obsessed with helping each other out all for "getting to hang out and chill after the race", that they lost sight that this is a race, not a popularity contest. This isn't Big Brother, where you're stuck with these people 24/7 with nothing else to do. Sure, you have designated times after the race where I'm sure you do have to spend some time with the other teams (though I swear there have been past contestants who have said that there's not much time to hang out with the other teams in between legs), but basing a U-Turn not on any form of strategy and based on who you like more? It's petty, at best. It's high school behaviour, which says a lot more about them as people. Ashton and Vanck may be annoying and they may not want to hang out with them. But guess what? They now have to race against strong teams like Tara/Joey and Matt/Redmond, who WILL get farther because they have been proven to be strong teams. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what happens in between legs. You can hang out with these people outside of the race, if you want. You can hang out after you're eliminated. What matters is what happens DURING the leg, because that's the determination on whether you get eliminated or not. 

It's why I respected Tara/Joey a little more for not going for the U-Turn. At the end of it all, even if they agreed with the plan, they knew it wasn't a smart move, so they chose to leave it to Liz/Michael. I think both of them are old enough to recognize how petty it is to U-Turn a team based on a popularity contest. 

Also, to put a little context to my anger at the teams and why I think it's at least very jerky behaviour: I had a big group of friends in high school that I hung out with. It wasn't that I was close with all of them, but I was closer with some. This one girl who I wasn't really close with had a birthday party and she invited every single one of our group of friends except for me. I wouldn't have even known about it until one of my close friends at the time brought it up a few days before. Sure, we weren't racing for money or anything, but it did feel like a betrayal, especially since I knew that this girl wasn't close with every single one of our group of friends and she also didn't talk to me about why she didn't invite me. She knew that I'd find out because we all hung out together every lunch. It definitely stung that I was left out all because this girl didn't really like me. Sure, I was an annoying piece of work in high school, but I was pretty harmless so her not inviting me and inviting everyone else definitely resonated with me, probably more than it should have. So yeah, I see things like this, with people laughing behind their backs, and I'll gladly call them out on their shit. It's really not nice. 

[Netfoot]

Scott:  "We're playing a social game, and we want to get some of these people out..."

Netfoot:  "That's what's wrong with this race."

And do none of these uncouth louts have the broughtupcy to know that you take your hat off while dining?!??

Ooooo!   Greeter!

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

And do none of these uncouth louts have the broughtupcy to know that you take your hat off while dining?!??

Didn't Vanck take off his hat as he sat down? To be honest, I wasn't paying attention to anyone else's headwear, but I remember Vanck doing it.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Scott:  "We're playing a social game, and we want to get some of these people out..."

Netfoot:  "That's what's wrong with this race."

And do none of these uncouth louts have the broughtupcy to know that you take your hat off while dining?!??

Ooooo!   Greeter!

In defense of the louts, they had to focus on finding the marked signs and writing them down correctly, while eating the meals.  They had a lot on their plates (no pun intended), so I could understand them forgetting to remove their hats. 

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Didn't Vanck take off his hat as he sat down? To be honest, I wasn't paying attention to anyone else's headwear, but I remember Vanck doing it.

I don't remember, but I do remember him making a comment about feeling under dressed.  

[Bryce Lynch]

50 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Getting together to eliminate a team because you don't like them and don't want them at the cool kids table is borderline bullying for me. Just because the bullying isn't done to their faces, it doesn't not make it some form of bullying. All of them said, to some extent, that they were putting together this plan solely because they didn't like the team. Also, almost all of the teams have their "mean girl/guy". Redmond, Brooke, Michael, Becca to a very small extent, Ashton. Maybe it's not bullying, per say, but it's definitely not right and it CAN hurt Ashton and Vanck's feelings, since the reasons for eliminating them go FAR beyond the race. Ashton may have made it personal with Matt/Redmond, but they didn't conspire with everyone to ensure that their team would go. They didn't laugh about it behind their backs, and think it was all this funny thing. 

This game is not a pure social game, but some of these teams genuinely think so. That is what I hate about this season; these teams are so obsessed with helping each other out all for "getting to hang out and chill after the race", that they lost sight that this is a race, not a popularity contest. This isn't Big Brother, where you're stuck with these people 24/7 with nothing else to do. Sure, you have designated times after the race where I'm sure you do have to spend some time with the other teams (though I swear there have been past contestants who have said that there's not much time to hang out with the other teams in between legs), but basing a U-Turn not on any form of strategy and based on who you like more? It's petty, at best. It's high school behaviour, which says a lot more about them as people. Ashton and Vanck may be annoying and they may not want to hang out with them. But guess what? They now have to race against strong teams like Tara/Joey and Matt/Redmond, who WILL get farther because they have been proven to be strong teams. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what happens in between legs. You can hang out with these people outside of the race, if you want. You can hang out after you're eliminated. What matters is what happens DURING the leg, because that's the determination on whether you get eliminated or not. 

It's why I respected Tara/Joey a little more for not going for the U-Turn. At the end of it all, even if they agreed with the plan, they knew it wasn't a smart move, so they chose to leave it to Liz/Michael. I think both of them are old enough to recognize how petty it is to U-Turn a team based on a popularity contest. 

Also, to put a little context to my anger at the teams and why I think it's at least very jerky behaviour: I had a big group of friends in high school that I hung out with. It wasn't that I was close with all of them, but I was closer with some. This one girl who I wasn't really close with had a birthday party and she invited every single one of our group of friends except for me. I wouldn't have even known about it until one of my close friends at the time brought it up a few days before. Sure, we weren't racing for money or anything, but it did feel like a betrayal, especially since I knew that this girl wasn't close with every single one of our group of friends and she also didn't talk to me about why she didn't invite me. She knew that I'd find out because we all hung out together every lunch. It definitely stung that I was left out all because this girl didn't really like me. Sure, I was an annoying piece of work in high school, but I was pretty harmless so her not inviting me and inviting everyone else definitely resonated with me, probably more than it should have. So yeah, I see things like this, with people laughing behind their backs, and I'll gladly call them out on their shit. It's really not nice. 

Not all jerky behavior is "bullying".  Matt and Redmond rubbed Ashton the wrong way, early in the race, so she U turned them. Nothing wrong with that.   Vanck and Ashton rubbed all the other teams the wrong way and they got U turned.  As Omar would say, "It's all in the game."  

These people are not a group of friends.  They are competitors who just met each other.  Some formed good relationships, others did not.  

Edited April 28, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Pallas]

8 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

They were ganged up on.  I would call that bullying.  Just because it wasn't to their face (in this leg) doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I would call that ostracizing or black-balling: the intent is to ban or remove the victim from the group. Bullying involves, along with rejection, confrontation -- confrontation (even digitally) and intimidation through repeated acts of direct spoken, written and/or physical aggression. The intent is not to eliminate the victim from the group, but to mortify and marginalize the victim, and so, gratify the bullier's ego and reinforce the bullier's status within the group. In the same way that an abusive spouse wants to continually dominate and humiliate the other, but does not want to divorce or drive the other spouse away. 

[Primetimer]

In Italy, Racers ascend an actual cliff, but does the episode pack any other kind of cliffhanger?

View the full article

[Bryce Lynch]

The editing of Michael and Liz, at the end of the last episode and in the preview was very deceptive.  "I'm done!" "It's over." were said in regards to the conflict between the two of them, not their participation in the race, as implied in the preview.  I was expecting Michael to change his mind about being, "done" with the race, but I was not expecting to find out that he never really said he was "done".  

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, Pallas said:

I would call that ostracizing or black-balling: the intent is to ban or remove the victim from the group. Bullying involves, along with rejection, confrontation -- confrontation (even digitally) and intimidation through repeated acts of direct spoken, written and/or physical aggression. The intent is not to eliminate the victim from the group, but to mortify and marginalize the victim, and so, gratify the bullier's ego and reinforce the bullier's status within the group. In the same way that an abusive spouse wants to continually dominate and humiliate the other, but does not want to divorce or drive the other spouse away. 

I don't know why my brain couldn't come up with those two words. This is definitely what I meant, which is still not any better than bullying.

20 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Not all jerky behavior is "bullying".  Matt and Redmond rubbed Ashton the wrong way, early in the race, so she U turned them. Nothing wrong with that.   Vanck and Ashton rubbed all the other teams the wrong way and they got U turned.  As Omar would say, "It's all in the game."  

Yeah, except the other teams weren't doing it for the game. If they did, at this stage, they know which teams are stronger than others. It's leg six, so they know they should actually be U-Turning based on strategy on how to get farther in the game, not how to keep your table as clique-y as possible. So, no, I don't buy that this was "all in the game". This was all outside of the game, since they were basing their decisions about their hanging out after each leg. It's just not smart gameplay. And because I am stating this, I am happy to admit that Ashton's decision to U-Turn Matt/Redmond wasn't based off of strategy either so they were probably wrong about them too. At least Matt/Redmond proved that they were a strong team as well by blasting through both of their detours, so in the end, there was unintentional strategy. But these teams know each other better than they did week 3. This time around, it really does feel like a high school decision and that they just didn't want the weird nerd to be part of their club. Like Scott stated, Amazing Race is now a social game. Who cares about playing your cards right when it's all about whether people like you or not? Because that is absolutely going to have them with The Amazing Race. /s

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't know why my brain couldn't come up with those two words. This is definitely what I meant, which is still not any better than bullying.

Yeah, except the other teams weren't doing it for the game. If they did, at this stage, they know which teams are stronger than others. It's leg six, so they know they should actually be U-Turning based on strategy on how to get farther in the game, not how to keep your table as clique-y as possible. So, no, I don't buy that this was "all in the game". This was all outside of the game, since they were basing their decisions about their hanging out after each leg. It's just not smart gameplay. And because I am stating this, I am happy to admit that Ashton's decision to U-Turn Matt/Redmond wasn't based off of strategy either so they were probably wrong about them too. At least Matt/Redmond proved that they were a strong team as well by blasting through both of their detours, so in the end, there was unintentional strategy. But these teams know each other better than they did week 3. This time around, it really does feel like a high school decision and that they just didn't want the weird nerd to be part of their club. Like Scott stated, Amazing Race is now a social game. Who cares about playing your cards right when it's all about whether people like you or not? Because that is absolutely going to have them with The Amazing Race. /s

There has always been some social element to AR, especially around U-Turns, but this season has definitely had a lot more social play, including a lot of cooperation on tasks.  But, Ashton was also the first one to push for cooperation and social play with her pushing for the "deal" with Matt and Redmond, which M&R broke, leading to them being U-turned by Ashton and Vanck.  So, Ashton's own methods ended up being used against her.

I think strategy and emotions often overlap.  Yes, it might have been more purely strategic to U-turn a "stronger" team (though I don't think there is a single, standout strongest team, this season.  But, if you can't get everyone to agree to a plot against a stronger, but better liked team, it makes sense to target a team you know you can get U-turned.  A "superior" strategy that cannot be implemented is inferior.  

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

There has always been some social element to AR, especially around U-Turns, but this season has definitely had a lot more social play, including a lot of cooperation on tasks.  But, Ashton was also the first one to push for cooperation and social play with her pushing for the "deal" with Matt and Redmond, which M&R broke, leading to them being U-turned by Ashton and Vanck.  So, Ashton's own methods ended up being used against her.

I think strategy and emotions often overlap.  Yes, it might have been more purely strategic to U-turn a "stronger" team (though I don't think there is a single, standout strongest team, this season.  But, if you can't get everyone to agree to a plot against a stronger, but better liked team, it makes sense to target a team you know you can get U-turned.  A "superior" strategy that cannot be implemented is inferior.  

Ok, fair enough. I don't like Ashton all that much and I wasn't fond of their team, don't get me wrong. I can see Ashton pushing on a deal and Matt/Redmond accepting it to shut her up. Getting a better picture as the legs go on, I'm not fully on their side as I was a few legs ago. But I also think this group-think mentality can also go a bad way. Since we also don't know the full conversation when the group decided to U-Turn Ashton/Vanck and then make sure they don't U-Turn anyone else, it does add more questions. Did everyone fully agree to these terms, or did they also, like Matt/Redmond with Ashton, just accept because it was easier than arguing? We know some people were more excited and more obvious to their feelings than others (Brooke, Redmond, Michael), but how about the others? Some seemed more hesitant about the idea. Like Tara/Joey said, they were in a good position to not cause any waves. So let's say Floyd/Becca did want to U-Turn some other team. If they didn't do what the group decided on, then they would be targets in any upcoming leg. So the question remains: did the group actually decide the plan, or was it a select few with the others having to go along for the ride because they didn't want to become targets? 

And there lies the issue for me with the whole group decision. Because it's never actually 100% a group decision, in my opinion. There's always a basis of "fear" and "uncertainty" made, and I definitely saw some people not readily agreeing to the plan. They may not like Vanck/Ashton, which is fine, but I don't see all of them agreeing that the U-Turn is best used on them. 

[Knuckles]

59 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

As Omar would say, "It's all in the game."  

True. This iteration of the race has taken on some of the characteristics of Survivor...and not in a good way. Probably because the racers don't know each other, so they are reaching out to form some alliances. But still, I like classic Amazing Race, with teams working together against other teams. YMMV.

There is some editing going on here...Redmond has made some threatening remarks to other players, so wounded veteran or not, he is in this race just as all the others are, and should be held to the same standard.  You want good racers, see Tara and Joey. Or London and Logan. Or team Fun. 

And it can't be said enough "shut up Brooke".

[Fukui San]

How in the world did Brooke and Scott decide to do a Detour in which Brooke had to do the physical labor?  The ghost task was right there. Brooke can probably handle sitting there and doing nothing for 30 minutes.  You could even plaster her mouth over for a while for a little peace and quiet.

The U-Turn, if we have to have it (and we don't because the first few seasons DIDN'T), is so unearned it's unsatisfying no matter who gets the shaft.  If the right to U-Turn was won, perhaps by winning a previous leg or by spending in-race money, then that would be something that's actually interesting.  Now it just sucks.

[Netfoot]

I used to be in favour of the old Yield, and later, the U-Turn and the W-Turn.  I thought this was a way that a team could shake up the order of the race, which might be good in the event that one team was just run-away superior to the rest and constantly lead the pack.  Also, to help a tail-end team racing for last place to widen the gap and give themselves a buffer.  

Nowadays, the U/W-Turns seem to be used out of spite, and not as a result of any strategic thinking.  

Given that the racers seem able to play the U/W-Turn multiple times (possibly due to the blind version of some of them?),  and given that the race-designers seem to make no effort to ensure that recovery is at least feasible, I am now against the entire concept of the U/W-Turn, and wish it was Eliminated from the Race.

I'm fairly sure that in order to use the U/W-Turn, you used to have to complete one half of the Detour yourself.  This meant that the team you were targeting might complete their Detour task before you, and spoil your plans/save themselves.  By putting the U/W-Turn up front, it means that the first person off the plane gets to wield it against anyone they choose, and the target has no opportunity to avoid it.  The practice of blowing the second half of a W-Turn requires collusion, and I can't think of any way to regulate against it.  And having the U/W_Turn immediately before the Pitstop eliminates any chance the targeted team might have of redeeming their chances, such as might happen if the Roadblock came in between.

I do realise, that spiteful use and the resulting drama is exactly what TPTB are after, and have no false illusions that this feature might be eliminated.  But I wish it would be.

Also, @Knuckles is correct in that the race is becoming far too Survivoresque.  And I agree that disabled veteran or not, Redmond should be held to the same standard as anyone else.  

[sinycalone]

Hypothetically, if they wanted to eliminate one of the stronger teams, the targets would have been Tara/Joey or Matt/Redmond.  However, both of those teams were more likely to hit the UTurn marker before all of the other teams (they had the earliest departure times).   

I realize that my enjoyment of Tara/Joey, influences my next comment, but....I think they helped Mike/Liz find the UTurn marker because Tara and Mike had cooperated in finding the 3 signs on the dining tram, not because they wanted Mike/Liz to UTurn Ashton/Vanck.  Their comment to Mike?Liz was basically:  we didn't UTurn them, it's your decision now.

[Bryce Lynch]

29 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

True. This iteration of the race has taken on some of the characteristics of Survivor...and not in a good way. Probably because the racers don't know each other, so they are reaching out to form some alliances. But still, I like classic Amazing Race, with teams working together against other teams. YMMV.

There is some editing going on here...Redmond has made some threatening remarks to other players, so wounded veteran or not, he is in this race just as all the others are, and should be held to the same standard.  You want good racers, see Tara and Joey. Or London and Logan. Or team Fun. 

And it can't be said enough "shut up Brooke".

What "threatening" remarks did Redmond make.  I recall him saying something like "We're gonna get you." to Vanck and Ashton, but clearly meant he was going to catch them in the race and get even for the U-turn.  He never physically threatened anybody.  

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

It seems like the U-Turns this year are doing teams in.

Well not if you're Matt and Redmond apparently, who not only survived it but beat a number of other teams doing only one Detour. 

Quote

I would have thought the other teams would think Brooke was much more irritating than Ashton.

Judging by her interactions at the start of the episode with London and Logan and how many of the other teams stopped to motivate her when she was doing the welding task, I actually think the other races like Brooke just fine. Believe me, I'm as baffled as you are but my only guess is that she's only a whiny pain in the ass to Scott but pleasant enough to the other teams. Whereas we know Ashton had that whole back and forth with Matt and Redmond and I do remember some others commenting on her being unpleasant in the last episode. Of course I think that was Brooke so take that for what's it worth.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Well not if you're Matt and Redmond apparently, who not only survived it but beat a number of other teams doing only one Detour. 

Judging by her interactions at the start of the episode with London and Logan and how many of the other teams stopped to motivate her when she was doing the welding task, I actually think the other races like Brooke just fine. Believe me, I'm as baffled as you are but my only guess is that she's only a whiny pain in the ass to Scott but pleasant enough to the other teams. Whereas we know Ashton had that whole back and forth with Matt and Redmond and I do remember some others commenting on her being unpleasant in the last episode. Of course I think that was Brooke so take that for what's it worth.

I am also baffled as to why teams aren't more irritated by Brooke.  Maybe they see Ashton as arrogant and pushy, but whiney Brooke as (sym)pathetic.  

Some might also have seen Brooke and Scott as less of a threat, and therefore helped them and hindered V&A.  

[tvfanatic13]

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

The U-Turn left a bad taste in my mouth, even though Ashton probably earned it with her mouth. Something like that should be earned. Once again: Detour/U-Turn/Route Marker. I am okay with the concept of U-Turns and other impediments. If CBS has one less reason to pull the plug, I'm good with it.

ETA: And you can't perform two U-Turns! You do it, you can't perform it for the rest of the season. This bugs me. Is this what critics of Dave & Conner felt like during TAR24? Because I liked those guys.

Has anybody here ever eaten on ground transit like that? I don't mean on a plane or munching something from a bag on the bus or train. I mean getting a decent meal while seeing the sights.

The Wine Train in Napa Valley. But man, do I want to go to Milan to ride that bus!!

[urusai]

Redmond also asked Vanck if he was scared after the "gonna get you" line. To which Vance answered "uh, okay."  Lol

I'd hate to be Brooke's client. She'd probably whine and cry "I can't dooooo it." Then ask me to make the closing argument. 

Edited April 28, 2017 by urusai

[Lady Calypso]

52 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

What "threatening" remarks did Redmond make.  I recall him saying something like "We're gonna get you." to Vanck and Ashton, but clearly meant he was going to catch them in the race and get even for the U-turn.  He never physically threatened anybody.  

I rewatched the particular scene after the Blind Double U-Turn. He started off to say "Oh, we're gonna get ya!" and it did seem like all fun and games. But the problem with Redmond is that he seems to like to poke and poke at people to see them react, and not in a good way. Redmond did continue to say "Oh, are you scared? You should be scared!" And then the whole "You only U-Turn if you're weak!". So yeah, he wasn't making physically threatening remarks, but he was being aggressive with his words. 

17 minutes ago, urusai said:

I'd hate to be Brooke's client. She'd probably whine and cry "I can't dooooo it." Then ask me to make the closing argument. 

Same here. How is it that she can't do ANYTHING? 

[survivinmt]

Did Brooke have a brief self-awareness moment about how vocal she was on the cliff climb? Seriously she was yelling at Scott to find her hand holds? Good grief, woman, your helplessness is boundless.

I didn't mind the U-turns of the past but it seems like to have them be the most exciting for viewers is:

 - don't have them after a forced staggered start

 - only can be used once in the race by each team (use strategically)

 - only after detour is completed

 - then have a road block after so there is a chance for catching up.

[TheRabbi]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

I used to be in favour of the old Yield, and later, the U-Turn and the W-Turn.  I thought this was a way that a team could shake up the order of the race, which might be good in the event that one team was just run-away superior to the rest and constantly lead the pack.  Also, to help a tail-end team racing for last place to widen the gap and give themselves a buffer.  

Nowadays, the U/W-Turns seem to be used out of spite, and not as a result of any strategic thinking.  

Given that the racers seem able to play the U/W-Turn multiple times (possibly due to the blind version of some of them?),  and given that the race-designers seem to make no effort to ensure that recovery is at least feasible, I am now against the entire concept of the U/W-Turn, and wish it was Eliminated from the Race.

I'm fairly sure that in order to use the U/W-Turn, you used to have to complete one half of the Detour yourself.  This meant that the team you were targeting might complete their Detour task before you, and spoil your plans/save themselves.  By putting the U/W-Turn up front, it means that the first person off the plane gets to wield it against anyone they choose, and the target has no opportunity to avoid it.  The practice of blowing the second half of a W-Turn requires collusion, and I can't think of any way to regulate against it.  And having the U/W_Turn immediately before the Pitstop eliminates any chance the targeted team might have of redeeming their chances, such as might happen if the Roadblock came in between.

I do realise, that spiteful use and the resulting drama is exactly what TPTB are after, and have no false illusions that this feature might be eliminated.  But I wish it would be.

Also, @Knuckles is correct in that the race is becoming far too Survivoresque.  And I agree that disabled veteran or not, Redmond should be held to the same standard as anyone else.  

This perfectly articulated everything I was trying to say earlier. The u-turn/yield used to be used against the strongest teams (colin/Christie being the first example), but now just seems out of spite. And not giving teams the chance to race their way out of it (by completing their own detour first before the u-turn board) is ridiculous.

[Rachel RSL]

4 hours ago, TheRabbi said:

That's 2 eliminations now due to stupid high school drama and not racing merit. 

I don't recall any high school drama when Tara & Joey U-Turned Seth & Olive. They simply wanted to eliminate a strong team.

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's why I respected Tara/Joey a little more for not going for the U-Turn. At the end of it all, even if they agreed with the plan, they knew it wasn't a smart move, so they chose to leave it to Liz/Michael. I think both of them are old enough to recognize how petty it is to U-Turn a team based on a popularity contest. 

I love Tara & Joey but they didn't refrain from using the U-Turn because they thought it was a bad move or because they thought it was petty. Joey stated (a couple times, I think) that he didn't want them to be seen as the bad guys. That's why they directed Michael & Liz to the right spot, they were fully on board with the plan, they just didn't want to get any more "blood on their hands".

 

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Judging by her interactions at the start of the episode with London and Logan and how many of the other teams stopped to motivate her when she was doing the welding task, I actually think the other races like Brooke just fine. Believe me, I'm as baffled as you are but my only guess is that she's only a whiny pain in the ass to Scott but pleasant enough to the other teams.

This is basically identical to Flo. She was horrible to Zach but apparently she was extremely well-liked amongst the other Racers. I'm assuming Brooke is probably the same way, completely freaked out at challenges but cool to be around any other time. Unfortunately for both Flo and Brooke, we only get to see the screechy moments. 

[piequinn35]

Brooke said Ashton/Vanck were irritating, 

Brooke, all of us find you irritating :) Won't the screechy moments irritate the other teams?

I think even without the u-turn, V/A would still be eliminated because they got lost finding the clue.

[meep.meep]

Free Scott!

Count is now:  1 Rapido, 1 Andale      apparently these are indispensable words of power that must eventually be used!

Wonder how long it took the producers to find a second Detour task that would take about the same amount of time as the rock climbing.

[ByaNose]

1 minute ago, meep.meep said:

Free Scott!

Count is now:  1 Rapido, 1 Andale      apparently these are indispensable words of power that must eventually be used!

Wonder how long it took the producers to find a second Detour task that would take about the same amount of time as the rock climbing.

This episode was so weird. None of the task seemed hard. They seemed close to each other and overall easy. The rock climb wasn't even that high. At least, with a Double U Turn you would think everything would have been harder. Then it was getting so close to the end of the hour I almost thought it was a non elimination round.

[blackwing]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's why I respected Tara/Joey a little more for not going for the U-Turn. At the end of it all, even if they agreed with the plan, they knew it wasn't a smart move, so they chose to leave it to Liz/Michael. I think both of them are old enough to recognize how petty it is to U-Turn a team based on a popularity contest. 

My interpretation was that they were fully on board with the plan... but the reason why they didn't use the U Turn on Vanck and Ashton was not because they thought it was petty, but because they said they had already used a U Turn once and didn't want to get a bad reputation or bad karma for always using the U Turn.  It had nothing to do with being "above it all" or disagreeing with the decision.

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

I'm fairly sure that in order to use the U/W-Turn, you used to have to complete one half of the Detour yourself.  This meant that the team you were targeting might complete their Detour task before you, and spoil your plans/save themselves.  By putting the U/W-Turn up front, it means that the first person off the plane gets to wield it against anyone they choose, and the target has no opportunity to avoid it.  The practice of blowing the second half of a W-Turn requires collusion, and I can't think of any way to regulate against it.  And having the U/W_Turn immediately before the Pitstop eliminates any chance the targeted team might have of redeeming their chances, such as might happen if the Roadblock came in between.

I thought so too.  So it would reward people who not only chose Detour tasks wisely but also did the task quickly.  I think it really stinks the way the U Turns are placed now, especially when it is on a leg starting in a new country where everyone got equalised because of HOO or flights.  In the past I remember teams unknowingly using the U Turn on a team that had already done the other choice and passed.  That was always fun to see.  I also hate how the double U Turn has often turned into a single U Turn with other teams conspiring to prevent the first U Turned team from U Turning anyone else.  Why not just have single U Turns then?  If there has to be a double U turn, I'd rather there be two U Turn stations.  One before the teams do the Detour task, and then one at some other location after the Detour task.  That way there is at least a chance for the team to get first U Turned to do the second task before a lagging team completes the first task.

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The editing of Michael and Liz, at the end of the last episode and in the preview was very deceptive.  "I'm done!" "It's over." were said in regards to the conflict between the two of them, not their participation in the race, as implied in the preview.  I was expecting Michael to change his mind about being, "done" with the race, but I was not expecting to find out that he never really said he was "done".  

I had no doubt that he wasn't actually going to quit the race.  I wouldn't say the preview was deceptive because I didn't believe for an instant that he was quitting.  I had assumed it was just him being a passive aggressive jerk and just threatening to quit just to push his partner's buttons.

[urusai]

5 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

This episode was so weird. None of the task seemed hard. They seemed close to each other and overall easy. The rock climb wasn't even that high. At least, with a Double U Turn you would think everything would have been harder. Then it was getting so close to the end of the hour I almost thought it was a non elimination round.

I thought they were climbing the Alps the way Brooke was whining to Scott to help her. 

[spanana]

13 hours ago, Skyfall said:

I mean it's a race but you also need to enjoy yourself and they were hindering that for the others.

If I were on that race and trying to get anyone eliminated for being annoying, it would be Brooke.  I don't care that the others don't particularly like Vanck & Ashton.  I found Ashton annoying as well.  But what I didn't like was the other teams framing it as sort of a we don't like them because they're weird and not cool enough to hang out with the rest of us.  That is what didn't sit well.  I wouldn't exactly call it bullying, but it does veer on typical mean girl behavior.

[Netfoot]

28 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

This is basically identical to Flo. She was horrible to Zach but apparently she was extremely well-liked amongst the other Racers.

As for generally being well-liked, I think just about everybody liked Flo, including Zach.  He has always been reported as being supportive of her, saying that while she may have had her cringeworthy moments, she was extremely valuable when it came to persuading locals to assist them.

(I too, liked Flo.  In fact, the only thing about her I didn't like was that she spent time snogging with a member of another team.  Can't remember who. Anybody know?  I know that she and Zach weren't romantically involved, but still, for team solidarity if nothing else, she could have spent less time snuggling up with the competition!)

Now, Brooke may be in a similar position.  She may be acting in a way that we find insufferable, but she isn't necessarily making any of the other racers life miserable with the whining and snivelling.  Seeing how many people turned a hand to help her make a ladle I'd have to agree she seems well liked.  As for the self-entitled, holier-than-thou, mean-girl attitude towards A&V, that won't alienate her with other racers, because the entire bunch of scumbags feel exactly the same way that she does!

[ShadowSixx]

How does the food tram thing work? There's no kitchen on the tram so do you order food ahead of time? Do you have to finish your food before the ride is over?

[Bryce Lynch]

27 minutes ago, blackwing said:

My interpretation was that they were fully on board with the plan... but the reason why they didn't use the U Turn on Vanck and Ashton was not because they thought it was petty, but because they said they had already used a U Turn once and didn't want to get a bad reputation or bad karma for always using the U Turn.  It had nothing to do with being "above it all" or disagreeing with the decision.

I thought so too.  So it would reward people who not only chose Detour tasks wisely but also did the task quickly.  I think it really stinks the way the U Turns are placed now, especially when it is on a leg starting in a new country where everyone got equalised because of HOO or flights.  In the past I remember teams unknowingly using the U Turn on a team that had already done the other choice and passed.  That was always fun to see.  I also hate how the double U Turn has often turned into a single U Turn with other teams conspiring to prevent the first U Turned team from U Turning anyone else.  Why not just have single U Turns then?  If there has to be a double U turn, I'd rather there be two U Turn stations.  One before the teams do the Detour task, and then one at some other location after the Detour task.  That way there is at least a chance for the team to get first U Turned to do the second task before a lagging team completes the first task.

I had no doubt that he wasn't actually going to quit the race.  I wouldn't say the preview was deceptive because I didn't believe for an instant that he was quitting.  I had assumed it was just him being a passive aggressive jerk and just threatening to quit just to push his partner's buttons.

I had little doubt they would stay in the race.  I've seen other teams act like they were going to quit, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone drop out, except due to injury or illness.  

The reason I thought it was deceptive was that they intentionally showed Michael's comments in the exact opposite context of how they were really made.  The editors portrayed them as if he was threatening to quit, when he was actually reconciling with his partner, with the comments.  

5 minutes ago, ShadowSixx said:

How does the food tram thing work? There's no kitchen on the tram so do you order food ahead of time? Do you have to finish your food before the ride is over?

I believe this is their website:

http://www.atm-mi.it/it/AltriServizi/TempoLibero/Pagine/ATMosfera.aspx

It looks like you book online, in advance, and choose which meal you want when booking.

[ShadowSixx]

6 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I had little doubt they would stay in the race.  I've seen other teams act like they were going to quit, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone drop out, except due to injury or illness.  

The reason I thought it was deceptive was that they intentionally showed Michael's comments in the exact opposite context of how they were really made.  The editors portrayed them as if he was threatening to quit, when he was actually reconciling with his partner, with the comments.  

I believe this is their website:

http://www.atm-mi.it/it/AltriServizi/TempoLibero/Pagine/ATMosfera.aspx

It looks like you book online, in advance, and choose which meal you want when booking.

Thank you. I wish I can just go to Italy and eat on the tram and enjoy the sights of that beautiful country.

[Tryangle]

13 hours ago, Lakebum said:

They need to hire that greeter for every stop, country be damned. Wow...

Indeed. Stunning.

After watching the boats, I was already thinking of James Bond (From Russia With Love), then she shows up and I'm all "she'd be a knockout Bond Girl".

4 hours ago, Netfoot said:

 

And do none of these uncouth louts have the broughtupcy to know that you take your hat off while dining?!??

 

Netfoot are you of, or live in, a Caribbean country? Love this phrase!