S10.E01: The Pilot

[ApathyMonger]

Quote

A chance encounter with a girl with a star in her eye leads to a terrifying chase across time and space. Bill’s mind is opened to a Universe that is bigger and more exciting than she could possibly have imagined – but who is the Doctor, and what is his secret mission with Nardole on Earth?

[Llywela]

I actually...quite liked this episode. There were some scenes and details I side-eyed dubiously and I still don't like Nardole, and Moffat's overall style remains very much not my general taste, but even so, I managed to pretty much enjoy almost an entire episode. I can't remember the last time that happened.

Now, was it a one off? Or does this bode well for the season to come?

It helped that a large chunk of the episode was filmed just up the road from my office, so there was some truly class location-spotting going on! Plus a few moments of, 'hang on, you can't get there from there!'

[Lokiberry]

I liked it too. :) Bill was perfect: down to earth, a bit down on her luck, curious, and eager to travel with and learn from the Doctor. She was like early series 1 Rose (before she got to be too much). This is the kind of companion that I've been waiting for since 7b.  I also liked Nardole, if for no other reason than he's a companion who's not a modern 20 something female.

I loved the pictures of River and Susan on the Doctor's desk. I think that might be the first mention we've had of Susan since the 60s. I loved that there was just something about Bill that struck a chord in the Doctor and reminded him of his granddaughter. He's a lonely man, who's family is gone, making a connection with someone despite himself. I'm really looking forward to how this relationship will develop. From the previews, I thought it would be just professor and student (which would be great, and very in keeping with Classic Who), but Bill is lonely too. Her foster mother seems very uncaring.

The only sour note was in the scene where the Doctor was going to wipe Bill's memory, and we were "treated" to Clara's theme song. I thought we were meant to have forgotten about her.

Other than that, this was a wonderful return of the show. I'm really looking forward to this series.

[Beatriceblake]

I liked the introduction of Bill but Heather the water monster who just wants to go home felt like something Moff has done before and better. The university setting was shot pretty nicely though.

[alrightokay]

I really like Bill; she seems real, relatable.  Her questions and reactions have been believable, and she exudes a genuine warmth and open-heartedness.  Great job by Pearl Mackie.  The puddle-monster plot lost some steam toward the end, but certain images/ideas were striking (the star in Heather's eye, the realization that you never actually see your face in a mirror reflection).  And so wonderful to see Capaldi back in action; I wanted to hear more of his lecture on time.  Hope this series gives him the grand send off he deserves.

[John Potts]

Ten minutes in I thought I was going to hate this episode, with our quirky heroine who is bizarrely fixated on using chips to win a girl's heart* who the Doctor seems oddly smitten by (can't we just have random strays the Doctor finds on his adventures that decide to tag along afterwards?). But once the "villain" showed up, it actually got quite interesting. I do like a monster that isn't evil per se, it's just uncaring/oblivious (not that I want EVERY monster to be "just misunderstood", but not every villain has to Mwa-ha-ha all day). And I quite like it that we don't really have any more clue about how it operates than we did at the start.

Funny to think this is a story that features Daleks where they're presence is almost entirely incidental to the plot and they were far from being the scariest thing in the story!

* Though that may be where I've been going wrong all these years!

[LiveenLetLive]

Just watching the US showing now, but I like the new companion (making her a lesbian removes that pesky romantic "chemistry" question with the Doctor that pops up every season, LOL.) Still hate Capaldi in the role--can't wait to hear who is the new Doctor. Also any show who uses a Joy Division tune as background wins my vote, haha.

[Jamie Satyr]

Well I'll have to get used to her I guess! The story's a bit lame and been done, but taping it anyway! See ya next week! ;-)

[Lantern7]

Bill is not Clara. That's good enough for me. Nice that Jenna Coleman is doing new things, because Clara was a drag. Now Capaldi has a capable supporting player for the foreseea- . . . oh. Right. Crap.

Still not "getting" Nardole. Why does the Doctor keep him around? He seems nice, and I'm good with male companions. Also, he's not from the 21th Century, and that's rare.

I don't think we've heard anything about Susan since "The Five Doctors." Nice that she and River are still in the Doctor's heart. Hearts. You know what I mean.

[truther]

I liked it.  I'm not sure I want the whole season to be like that, especially the pacing, but generally I agree with the other comments.  Bill's cool and, fundamentally, not Clara.  Capaldi seemed comfortable and the professor idea was good.  I also thought Nardole was excellent - very funny and effective in limited doses.  

My one big pet peeve, and it's probably just me, but I'm always bothered when shows have random background people getting killed just for scenery.  Just something about the way this episode focused so much on the important peoples' lives -- going to the end of the universe to try to save one person -- while at the same time shrugging off the Dalek victims without a second thought.  

[Ms Lark]

I like Bill. I'd have liked her even if she wasn't 1) not Clara and 2) lesbian. I'm over the moon that she's not Clara and won't get starry-eyed (sorry) over The Doctor. I think she's going to be a good companion.

[Bruinsfan]

Any worries I might have had about liking Bill were dispelled; I think I liked her better upon introduction than anyone since Martha. The slow build with her was nice, and involved subtlety and patience that I'm quite frankly surprised to see coming from Moffat's pen. I REALLY like that she's individual and interesting, but not some special snowflake who's the designated Best Companion Ever. Capaldi was his usual excellent self, and even Nardole was toned down enough not to annoy.

The mystery developed nicely, and it was a welcome change to not have the fate of the world or universe in the balance.

My one quibble was a cast-off bit of someone's spaceship being able to almost instantaneously follow the TARDIS across billions of parsecs and millions of years. I'm pretty sure that even the Master isn't capable of casually doing that (hence his/her frequent returns to Earth and laying traps for the Doctor thereupon). So the Doctor leads something that can zero in on him flawlessly to the Daleks?

Speaking of, it was a treat to return to the war with the Movellans and their shiny silver dreads and jumpsuits!

[Jamie Satyr]

6 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Any worries I might have had about liking Bill were dispelled; I think I liked her better upon introduction than anyone since Martha. The slow build with her was nice, and involved subtlety and patience that I'm quite frankly surprised to see coming from Moffat's pen. I REALLY like that she's individual and interesting, but not some special snowflake who's the designated Best Companion Ever. Capaldi was his usual excellent self, and even Nardole was toned down enough not to annoy.

The mystery developed nicely, and it was a welcome change to not have the fate of the world or universe in the balance.

My one quibble was a cast-off bit of someone's spaceship being able to almost instantaneously follow the TARDIS across billions of parsecs and millions of years. I'm pretty sure that even the Master isn't capable of casually doing that (hence his/her frequent returns to Earth and laying traps for the Doctor thereupon). So the Doctor leads something that can zero in on him flawlessly to the Daleks?

Speaking of, it was a treat to return to the war with the Movellans and their shiny silver dreads and jumpsuits!

You noticed; right around the time of "The Destiny Of The Daleks!" We hadn't heard of them and couldn't believe the producers went to all that trouble aesthetically seeing as they were attractive with the dreds and hot space suits! ;-)

Edited April 16, 2017 by Jamie Satyr

[benteen]

I really enjoyed that one.  I wasn't sure if I was going to enjoy it at first but I did.  I really liked Bill.  She's a fun addition and it's nice to see a companion that doesn't bring the issues that Clara did with the Doctor.  Pearl Mackie's accent was a little hard to understand but I got used to it quickly.

I thought the idea behind the "puddle" spaceship and it needing a pilot was an interesting one.  I thought the creature might be the one from Waters of Mars at first.  I like the relatively low-key aspect of the story.

Loved all the callbacks.  The picture of Susan, the Daleks war with the Movellans, etc.

I still don't have faith in Moffat not to screw this up.

[call me ishmael]

I liked it as well and think that Bill has great potential.  I also liked the implication that the TARDIS was also trying to convince him to accept Bill by the TARDIS noises when he was claiming he wasn't doing that anymore.

I thought it was good that Bill seemed normal but...wasn't that the Doctor taking the photo of her mom (reflection in the mirror)?  I fear that means she wasn't random after all.

[alrightokay]

24 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

I thought it was good that Bill seemed normal but...wasn't that the Doctor taking the photo of her mom (reflection in the mirror)?  I fear that means she wasn't random after all.

I think that image of the Doctor in the photo implied that he went back in time to take those pictures, to make Bill feel better about not knowing her mom.  It was a sweet gift. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by alrightokay

[call me ishmael]

5 minutes ago, alrightokay said:

I think that image of the Doctor in the photo implied that he went back in time to take those pictures, to make Bill feel better about not knowing her mom.  It was a sweet gift. 

Hope you are right.  That would be far better.

[Lantern7]

I was spoiled about the Movellians. It's funny that we're going to see some old things this season, but we get started with the braided androids from the other Dalek story in the Tom Baker era.

ETA: Movellans. No "i." My bad. And their story is "Destiny Of The Daleks." Bonus: Lalla Ward makes her debut as Romana II, and she goes around in a pinkish version of the Doctor's iconic outfit.

[hnygrl]

Oh thank you sweet baby Jesus. It didn't suck. I didn't roll my eyes once! YAY! A GOOD COMPANION!!! And she's smart too!

Anybody else think "waters of Mars?"

Cause that's the first thing that came to mind. That was way scarier. This one was...sweet. That's the word. It was really really sweet.

Good start to the series. I smiled, I laughed, It was good. Really. Really. Good. And now I want to re-watch it a few times to see if I missed anything.

That's a good, good sign. I'm so happy. THE NEW SERIES IS GOOD!

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, truther said:

My one big pet peeve, and it's probably just me, but I'm always bothered when shows have random background people getting killed just for scenery.  Just something about the way this episode focused so much on the important peoples' lives -- going to the end of the universe to try to save one person -- while at the same time shrugging off the Dalek victims without a second thought.  

If it makes you feel any better, the Daleks' 'victims', with their shiny jumpsuits and dreadlocks, were Movellans - who are also robots. And, in their own way, not really much better than the Daleks themselves. The Doctor didn't intervene in that battle because he already knew the outcome, he'd gone back in time to a war he's already experienced.

[ganesh]

It seems like the new Companion isn't the Fulcrum of the Universe. Fine with me, and it seems like fine with most here too. So, they were saying that the Doctor was at this university for a long time, and I guess that he went back in time to One (60s) and was just there for all that time. That's actually a good idea because that means he hasn't been traveling for a long time. Like a soft reboot. 

I really liked the strategy of 'hey, let's see of the Daleks can kill this because I'm out of ideas.' No? Ok, we need to think of something else. 

There was a guy at the conference I was at 3 days ago that looked like Nardole, and I totally looked up to see when Doctor Who was airing again. I mean, really. 

[AD35]

6 hours ago, Jamie Satyr said:

You noticed; right around the time of "The Destiny Of The Daleks!" We hadn't heard of them and couldn't believe the producers went to all that trouble aesthetically seeing as they were attractive with the dreds and hot space suits! ;-)

I wonder if the Movellans are coming back later in the season since they haven't been seen in such a long time (Tom Baker's era).  As for Bill, I liked her introduction.  Hopefully they don't turn her into The Most! Special! Companion! Evaahh!! like they did with Rose.  And that she has a better fate in store for her than Donna and Clara.

[smorbie]

12 hours ago, Lokiberry said:

I liked it too. :) Bill was perfect: down to earth, a bit down on her luck, curious, and eager to travel with and learn from the Doctor. She was like early series 1 Rose (before she got to be too much). This is the kind of companion that I've been waiting for since 7b.  I also liked Nardole, if for no other reason than he's a companion who's not a modern 20 something female.

I loved the pictures of River and Susan on the Doctor's desk. I think that might be the first mention we've had of Susan since the 60s. I loved that there was just something about Bill that struck a chord in the Doctor and reminded him of his granddaughter. He's a lonely man, who's family is gone, making a connection with someone despite himself. I'm really looking forward to how this relationship will develop. From the previews, I thought it would be just professor and student (which would be great, and very in keeping with Classic Who), but Bill is lonely too. Her foster mother seems very uncaring.

The only sour note was in the scene where the Doctor was going to wipe Bill's memory, and we were "treated" to Clara's theme song. I thought we were meant to have forgotten about her.

Other than that, this was a wonderful return of the show. I'm really looking forward to this series.

I'm afraid Clara will be with us forever.  Man, I hated her.  I'm actually glad, Clara notwithstanding, that we get a nod to his companions now and again.

The thing about Clara is....I hate her.  I can't imagine why she was around for so long and managed to take over the show the way she did.  The only thing I can think of is maybe she was sleeping with someone.

I haven't watching this entire episode yet, but like what I saw.  And I love Nardole.  It was such a nice surprise to see him as a companion.

12 hours ago, Beatriceblake said:

I liked the introduction of Bill but Heather the water monster who just wants to go home felt like something Moff has done before and better. The university setting was shot pretty nicely though.

Having just watched the Who Takeover, I can say Moffet enjoys recycling stories.

[smorbie]

8 hours ago, truther said:

I liked it.  I'm not sure I want the whole season to be like that, especially the pacing, but generally I agree with the other comments.  Bill's cool and, fundamentally, not Clara.  Capaldi seemed comfortable and the professor idea was good.  I also thought Nardole was excellent - very funny and effective in limited doses.  

My one big pet peeve, and it's probably just me, but I'm always bothered when shows have random background people getting killed just for scenery.  Just something about the way this episode focused so much on the important peoples' lives -- going to the end of the universe to try to save one person -- while at the same time shrugging off the Dalek victims without a second thought.  

During the Who Takeover, I cried when Matt Smith (MY doctor) was asking River to fade from his memory so he could go on.  It was sweet and heartbreaking.  I liked that they revisited her story and let her and Capaldi have a 24-year-long night together, essentially living the lifetime they should have had.  So, it was especially sweet that he keeps a picture of her on his desk.

I understand that he periodically has to have people and events removed from his memory or he wouldn't be able to go on, but he was married to River.  She needs to stay.  

[Kalliste]

3 minutes ago, smorbie said:

The thing about Clara is....I hate her.  I can't imagine why she was around for so long and managed to take over the show the way she did.  The only thing I can think of is maybe she was sleeping with someone.

Because that's the only logical reason for a woman you don't like sticking around longer than you expected? Fairly certain Moffat just thought the idea of Clara was amazing. And although she is quite unpopular here (I also didn't like her as a companion) there are many people who really did like her.

I didn't mind this episode. I liked Bill but when we were first introduced to her and her back story about the chips I have to say I couldn't keep up with anything she was saying. She speaks so fast. All I heard was girl, something something, chips.

I was hoping there was more to the 'star in the eye's story rather than just a mutation. Oh well. Also, do we have confirmation this is set in current time? There were some 80's vibes in the trailer and in the episode but I feel like that is wishful thinking and Bill is another current day British woman.

I do like that she called him on the mind wipe. I'm not sure the others would have picked up on that after 1 adventure with the doctor.

[smorbie]

6 hours ago, alrightokay said:

I think that image of the Doctor in the photo implied that he went back in time to take those pictures, to make Bill feel better about not knowing her mom.  It was a sweet gift. 

Oh....that's much better.  So sweet and very Doctory of him.

1 hour ago, AD35 said:

I wonder if the Movellans are coming back later in the season since they haven't been seen in such a long time (Tom Baker's era).  As for Bill, I liked her introduction.  Hopefully they don't turn her into The Most! Special! Companion! Evaahh!! like they did with Rose.  And that she has a better fate in store for her than Donna and Clara.

Give me Rose every day of the week, all day long, but spare me from Clara.  Her entrance into the story was jarring.  There was no break between A&R and her, no time to mourn his beloved Amelia.  All of the sudden there was CLARA.  And for some reason he loved her and was almost emasculated by her.  He was terrified to do anything without her.  YUUUCCK

[smorbie]

11 minutes ago, Kalliste said:

Because that's the only logical reason for a woman you don't like sticking around longer than you expected? Fairly certain Moffat just thought the idea of Clara was amazing. And although she is quite unpopular here (I also didn't like her as a companion) there are many people who really did like her.

I have truly tried to find some other reason for her absolute takeover of the show as well as her long tenure.  I'm glad there were people besides Moffat who liked her, but I haven't been able to find any.  I've read some old commentaries of the shows they did and the the authors of those did seem to find a use for her.  But, any time I've ever read comments and forums by viewers, I've not had the same experience.

Let's just way I'm glad she's gone.  I liked Bill far more than I expected to.  But, whoops, she's out of there at the end of the season, so might as well not get too attached.

[festivus]

I enjoyed that and I really like Bill. I want to think she's just a normal girl but this is The Moff we are talking about here. She'll probably turn out to be the Doctor's great great granddaughter or something. I mean there was a picture of Susan on his desk....

I think Nardole was used in just the right way in the episode so that was good. 

[bugsmum]

I loved it.  Love Capaldi's Doctor when he's freed from the shackles of the specialist snowflake ever.   Starting with Husbands of River Song he's been an even better Doctor than he already was.  I feel like we've all been freed from the shackles of the specialist snowflake ever.  

Love Bill and the way she was introduced.  Did not love the Clara reference during the episode - come on, Moffatt, let it go.  

So happy show is back!  

[eXiled]

Quote

Anybody else think "waters of Mars?"

I thought Waters of Mars mixed with Midnight (due to the entity repeating everything.)

I liked Bill quite a bit. My one issue is the problem I always have with Moffat's writing - his habit of TELLING instead of SHOWING. I would have much preferred to have seen Bill at the Doctor's lectures. Would a one-minute montage have killed them? I know we got a brief clip of her sitting near the "chips" girl, but I think I would have liked the episode opening with Bill watching Twelve and becoming fascinated with him. Instead we get a wordy ping-pong match between the two of them. "Why do you keep coming to my lectures?"

Moffat often uses words when imagery would be so much more powerful and uses special effects when a more intimate character-beat would be appropriate.

[John Potts]

I also went "Morvellians!" (even if I spelt it wrong!) as soon as I saw them - Destiny of the Daleks is the first dalek story I remember seeing, though it's possible I saw Genesis before that (I'd have been 3 when it first aired, though I may have seen a subsequent showing). The first 10 minutes came off as a rip off of Douglas Adams' Long Dark Teatime of the Soul (I know he was a former Who script writer and that it was partly used as the basis for the uncompleted Shada) and seemed to go nowhere, which is why I wasn't a fan. Also, I'm pretty sure that WASN'T the University of Bristol as it wasn't any building I recognised (I'm guessing it was in Cardiff again?) so I'm wondering why they said it was (I could be mistaken, or it could be a building from Bristol's other University, the University of WoE*).

I think I liked Bill Potts for her sheer.. ordinariness. She wasn't the most important person in the world/galaxy/universe (well, not yet!), she was just somebody who wanted more than her mundane existence. Even her lesbianism was pretty believably handled, because for somebody her age, you wouldn't expect it to be a big deal really (I know this because I'm totally down with the kids today - 4 Reals!) - though I wouldn't say it exactly rules out her falling in love with the Doctor (she could simply be bi-curious and until she says something like "No, I'm a total dyke! Not interested in dicks, it's vaginas all the way for me!" I'm not ruling out the possibility). And she even has my surname!

* In full, the "University of the West of England, Bristol", but it's known (even by folks studying there) as WoE

[Primetimer]

In an infinite universe, is there a finite number of ways to bring a character on board the TARDIS?

View the full article

[clack]

I didn't like the way Bill's introduction was setup.

What was gained by Bill being a food server at a uni, and not herself a student? The Doctor notices her, sees that she's so Very Special, pulls strings to get her enrolled and to become her tutor - it's all so unnecessarily forced. Just make her one of the Doctor's students in the first place, and get on with the story.

[KirkB]

11 minutes ago, clack said:

What was gained by Bill being a food server at a uni, and not herself a student? The Doctor notices her, sees that she's so Very Special, pulls strings to get her enrolled and to become her tutor - it's all so unnecessarily forced. Just make her one of the Doctor's students in the first place, and get on with the story.

I could be wrong, but I think the idea was the fact that she WASN'T a student but kept showing up to his lectures anyway was the very reason the Doctor noticed her in the first place.

[Eolivet]

8 hours ago, ganesh said:

That's actually a good idea because that means he hasn't been traveling for a long time. Like a soft reboot. 

Which is why I loved that this episode was named The Pilot (geddit?)

I don't like Moffat's plotting, but I could listen to his dialogue all day. The character beats he writes in (that Bill smiles rather than frowns when she doesn't understand and the Doctor saying "poetry and physics" are the same because of "rhyming") are great. And the girl with the star in her eye who wanted to leave. It set up this interesting star-crossed (ha ha) romance that felt mostly sad instead of mostly irritating.

This was my favorite Companion introduction since Donna the Temp. Bill feels like her own, fully-formed person -- but with room for growth and shading -- and that's the mark of a good writer. I could live without Moffat's dramatic plot cheats (does anybody ever end up unhappy?!), but I think he has a real way with words. His dialogue just sings.

Will be interesting to see these two with a new writer. Otherwise, can't wait for the rest of the season!

[clack]

22 minutes ago, KirkB said:

I could be wrong, but I think the idea was the fact that she WASN'T a student but kept showing up to his lectures anyway was the very reason the Doctor noticed her in the first place.

 But the narrative has to skip over several steps in order to get there. The Doctor has to gaze over the sea of faces at his crowded lectures and deduce that this one person, who otherwise appears to be a student, actually isn't one. Ideally, this process of deduction is something that we viewers should see.

Is Bill the first non-enrolled person to ever audit the Doctor's very popular lectures, which apparently he's been giving for decades? Is he in the habit of seeking out every non-student who attends his lectures? If not, why is Bill such a special case?

[Llywela]

3 hours ago, smorbie said:

During the Who Takeover, I cried when Matt Smith (MY doctor) was asking River to fade from his memory so he could go on.  It was sweet and heartbreaking.  I liked that they revisited her story and let her and Capaldi have a 24-year-long night together, essentially living the lifetime they should have had.  So, it was especially sweet that he keeps a picture of her on his desk.

I understand that he periodically has to have people and events removed from his memory or he wouldn't be able to go on, but he was married to River.  She needs to stay.  

Eh, the Doctor has never needed to have people and events removed from his memory to be able to go on before - Clara was the first time ever. And I never understood why River was so special that she deserves to be remembered above everyone else he's ever cared about. But I know River is popular. And as much as I loved the nod to Susan, it isn't clear why he's decided to dust off her photo now, after so many lifetimes - that's the kind of character note that could do with being expanded on, rather than just throwing it out there because.

1 hour ago, John Potts said:

I also went "Morvellians!" (even if I spelt it wrong!) as soon as I saw them - Destiny of the Daleks is the first dalek story I remember seeing, though it's possible I saw Genesis before that (I'd have been 3 when it first aired, though I may have seen a subsequent showing). The first 10 minutes came off as a rip off of Douglas Adams' Long Dark Teatime of the Soul (I know he was a former Who script writer and that it was partly used as the basis for the uncompleted Shada) and seemed to go nowhere, which is why I wasn't a fan. Also, I'm pretty sure that WASN'T the University of Bristol as it wasn't any building I recognised (I'm guessing it was in Cardiff again?) so I'm wondering why they said it was (I could be mistaken, or it could be a building from Bristol's other University, the University of WoE*).

Yeah, no, it was all filmed in Cardiff. The uni exteriors were all filmed at Cardiff Main College on Park Place. Lecture scenes were filmed at the Reardon Smith Lecture Theatre which is at the rear of the National Museum (next door to Main College). Both are a stone's throw from my office, so I saw them filming! Heather took Bill around the Biosciences building (also next door to Main, but the other side) to see the puddle, which is right by Psychology, in front of the Tower Block. The steps down to the secret door where the Doctor and Nardole have got the mysterious vault are not at Main College, though - looked more like the Glamorgan Building to me, I'll have to have a wander around when I go back to work on Tuesday, see if I can pin it down. Definitely can't get to that location the way they made it look, though!

Like I said, the location-spotting in this episode was A1 for me!

Not sure where the Doctor's office interiors were filmed, I didn't recognise the room.

1 hour ago, clack said:

I didn't like the way Bill's introduction was setup.

What was gained by Bill being a food server at a uni, and not herself a student? The Doctor notices her, sees that she's so Very Special, pulls strings to get her enrolled and to become her tutor - it's all so unnecessarily forced. Just make her one of the Doctor's students in the first place, and get on with the story.

I think the point of that set-up was to demonstrate that Bill has a lot of under-utilised potential - she has that spark of interest and intelligence, which drew her to the Doctor's lectures, but otherwise her potential was going wasting - something the Doctor has been drawn to before, in Rose and Donna, for instance. So he decided to take her on as a pet project, mostly just to give him something to do while he's hanging around the university doing whatever with his secret vault.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Llywela

[Lokiberry]

12 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I don't think we've heard anything about Susan since "The Five Doctors." Nice that she and River are still in the Doctor's heart. Hearts. You know what I mean.

OMG, you're right! I totally forgot that Susan was in The Five Doctors. In my defense, I haven't watched it in at least 15 years.

I also enjoyed the jar full of sonic screwdrivers. Maybe it was Moffat's way of making up for those dumb sonic sunglasses. This episode felt like a combination of RTD and Classic Who. I hope the rest of the series is like this.

[clack]

The "unrealized potential" story beats were merely indicated, not dramatized.

Why didn't Bill enroll at uni in the first place? We get an indication it's because she lacks confidence -- but the Bill we actually see in action is relatively bold and assertive. We get no character arc from unconfident to confident.

Moffat didn't give himself enough space to tell the story he wanted to tell : meet Bill, she's smart and brave but doesn't know it, and she's a lesbian! And it's her lesbianism that Moffat chooses to dramatize, not her unrealized potential.

I think it would have been wiser, in her introductory episode, to dramatize her lack of confidence and merely indicate her lesbianism, rather than the other way around. Dramatize her lesbianism in episode two.

[smorbie]

The "unrealized potential" story beats were merely indicated, not dramatized.

Why didn't Bill enroll at uni in the first place? We get an indication it's because she lacks confidence -- but the Bill we actually see in action is relatively bold and assertive. We get no character arc from unconfident to confident.

Moffat didn't give himself enough space to tell the story he wanted to tell : meet Bill, she's smart and brave but doesn't know it, and she's a lesbian! And it's her lesbianism that Moffat chooses to dramatize, not her unrealized potential.

I think it would have been wiser, in her introductory episode, to dramatize her lack of confidence and merely indicate her lesbianism, rather than the other way around. Dramatize her lesbianism in episode two.

Could not agree more. It's like her sexual orientation was defining characteristic.

It was that pushing of sexual orientation above all else that I think condemned Torchwood. It clicked along successfully enough until Jack Harkness' conversation deteriorated into sexual innuendo above all else.

[smorbie]

  4 hours ago, smorbie said:

During the Who Takeover, I cried when Matt Smith (MY doctor) was asking River to fade from his memory so he could go on.  It was sweet and heartbreaking.  I liked that they revisited her story and let her and Capaldi have a 24-year-long night together, essentially living the lifetime they should have had.  So, it was especially sweet that he keeps a picture of her on his desk.

I understand that he periodically has to have people and events removed from his memory or he wouldn't be able to go on, but he was married to River.  She needs to stay.  

Eh, the Doctor has never needed to have people and events removed from his memory to be able to go on before - Clara was the first time ever. And I never understood why River was so special that she deserves to be remembered above everyone else he's ever cared about. But I know River is popular. And as much as I loved the nod to Susan, it isn't clear why he's decided to dust off her photo now, after so many lifetimes - that's the kind of character note that could do with being expanded on, rather than just throwing it out there because.

  2 hours ago, John Potts said:

I also went "Morvellians!" (even if I spelt it wrong!) as soon as I saw them - Destiny of the Daleks is the first dalek story I remember seeing, though it's possible I saw Genesis before that (I'd have been 3 when it first aired, though I may have seen a subsequent showing). The first 10 minutes came off as a rip off of Douglas Adams' Long Dark Teatime of the Soul (I know he was a former Who script writer and that it was partly used as the basis for the uncompleted Shada) and seemed to go nowhere, which is why I wasn't a fan. Also, I'm pretty sure that WASN'T the University of Bristol as it wasn't any building I recognised (I'm guessing it was in Cardiff again?) so I'm wondering why they said it was (I could be mistaken, or it could be a building from Bristol's other University, the University of WoE*).

Yeah, no, it was all filmed in Cardiff. The uni exteriors were all filmed at Cardiff Main College on Park Place. Lecture scenes were filmed at the Reardon Smith Lecture Theatre which is at the rear of the National Museum (next door to Main College). Both are a stone's throw from my office, so I saw them filming! Heather took Bill around the Biosciences building (also next door to Main, but the other side) to see the puddle, which is right by Psychology, in front of the Tower Block. The steps down to the secret door where the Doctor and Nardole have got the mysterious vault are not at Main College, though - looked more like the Glamorgan Building to me, I'll have to have a wander around when I go back to work on Tuesday, see if I can pin it down. Definitely can't get to that location the way they made it look, though!

Like I said, the location-spotting in this episode was A1 for me!

Not sure where the Doctor's office interiors were filmed, I didn't recognise the room.

  2 hours ago, clack said:

I didn't like the way Bill's introduction was setup.

What was gained by Bill being a food server at a uni, and not herself a student? The Doctor notices her, sees that she's so Very Special, pulls strings to get her enrolled and to become her tutor - it's all so unnecessarily forced. Just make her one of the Doctor's students in the first place, and get on with the story.

I think the point of that set-up was to demonstrate that Bill has a lot of under-utilised potential - she has that spark of interest and intelligence, which drew her to the Doctor's lectures, but otherwise her potential was going wasting - something the Doctor has been drawn to before, in Rose and Donna, for instance. So he decided to take her on as a pet project, mostly just to give him something to do while he's hanging around the university doing whatever with his secret vault.

I liked the way he brought her in to his life. She was smart and curious enough to attend his lectures for no reason at all other than to learn. I think that's intriguing, myself. As for her not being a university student, in the U.S. that's not as uncommon as you think. Often money is a huge barrier and though they are grants and loans, sometimes people can't take advantage of them.

My guess is that she grew up unmotivated with a foster mother who probably does love her, but seems to be uninvolved in Bill's doings. She probably wasn't invested enough to urge Bill to see what opportunities existed for her.

And, you know what, there's nothing wrong with serving food for a living. There just isn't.

And the pictures of River and Susan highlighted the canon of the show, didn't they? Weren't they a lovely way of uniting the classic and NuWho even as the show softly reboots into the future? AFIK, River and Susan are the only ones he is related to. I could really be wrong because I haven't seen any of the classic episodes, though I'm looking forward to doing that in the future.

[smorbie]

This episode made me so happy! It was worth the longer wait. I really hope it bodes well for the rest of the season. Bill was great & the story was pretty good. My only negative is Nardole. He gives me grumbles. 

Aww, I love him. I'm so glad we didn't lose him. I love that he's been with the Doctor all this time.

[patchwork]

I like Bill, she reminded me a lot of Donna and season 1 Rose. She shares their untapped potential angle which for me works a lot better than the companion being a great mystery for The Doctor to solve.

There can be any number of reasons why someone as basically smart and curious as Bill isn't a uni student herself, money, grades, upbringing. She could have been completely uninterested in higher education, just content to have a job that pays the bills and to live her life until The Doctor's lectures caught her interest. 

I'm glad they're hinting at his family but it's odd that Susan was brought back after so long of not mentioning of her. Maybe the woman that Wilf kept seeing is coming back and will be revealed as Susan?    

[TexasGal]

Bill was pretty awesome.  I didn't want to like her initial "Doctor What?" but I couldn't help it.

But yeah, Waters of Mars is one of my faves and there were too many references that were just way less effective here.  So boo on that.

[Gulftastic]

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

 

ETA: Movellans. No "i." My bad. And their story is "Destiny Of The Daleks." Bonus: Lalla Ward makes her debut as Romana II, and she goes around in a pinkish version of the Doctor's iconic outfit.

Yeah she did! Loved Lalla Ward. I've got a signed photo of her somewhere. Until Amy turned up, she was my favourite companion (nothing beats a hot read head, sorry Lalla). I wish they could bring back Romana for an episode or two. If only so we know she's escaped from E Space.

[Mimiray802]

15 Minutes in this episode was already better than the last couple of years. I hated Clara and as a result I stopped really paying attention for the most part and never got to know Capaldi until the the husbands of River Song. I tried to go back and watch some of his older episodes and if I fast forward the Clara parts he is quite good but the pairing never worked in my opinion. It's a shame this is his last year because I think with a new companion he is finally able to really get the attention he deserves. I don't think the TPTB gave him a chance and revolved the show around Clara because they thought it would keep younger viewers. I hope this premier indicates this will be a good season. Bill seem interesting and not a flat character that we go with Clara. I haven't always liked every companion but at least I felt something love or hate. With Clara I felt  nothing at all. Moffet seemed to use her as a plot point just to showcase his over the top story arcs. 

[Hiveminder]

58 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

Bill was pretty awesome.  I didn't want to like her initial "Doctor What?" but I couldn't help it.

I loved that, because I've always thought it was a little forced that they have people ask him, "Doctor who?" just to get the show title in there. Don't most people say, "Doctor/Mr./whatever what" instead of who in that situation? As in 'what is your name' instead of 'who are you'?

1 hour ago, smorbie said:

I liked the way he brought her in to his life. She was smart and curious enough to attend his lectures for no reason at all other than to learn. I think that's intriguing, myself. As for her not being a university student, in the U.S. that's not as uncommon as you think. Often money is a huge barrier and though they are grants and loans, sometimes people can't take advantage of them.

My guess is that she grew up unmotivated with a foster mother who probably does love her, but seems to be uninvolved in Bill's doings. She probably wasn't invested enough to urge Bill to see what opportunities existed for her.

And, you know what, there's nothing wrong with serving food for a living. There just isn't.

And the pictures of River and Susan highlighted the canon of the show, didn't they? Weren't they a lovely way of uniting the classic and NuWho even as the show softly reboots into the future? AFIK, River and Susan are the only ones he is related to. I could really be wrong because I haven't seen any of the classic episodes, though I'm looking forward to doing that in the future.

Yes to your entire comment, but especially the bolded. 

[Maelstrom]

19 hours ago, Lokiberry said:

I liked it too. :) Bill was perfect: down to earth, a bit down on her luck, curious, and eager to travel with and learn from the Doctor. She was like early series 1 Rose (before she got to be too much). This is the kind of companion that I've been waiting for since 7b.  I also liked Nardole, if for no other reason than he's a companion who's not a modern 20 something female.

The only sour note was in the scene where the Doctor was going to wipe Bill's memory, and we were "treated" to Clara's theme song. I thought we were meant to have forgotten about her.

Yes to your thoughts on Bill reminding me of early Rose, whom I adored, and also liking that Nardole isn't a 20something modern female. For a show about a time-travelling alien, it's nice to have a companion who is also a time-travelling alien. Robot. Whatever.

As for Clara's theme returning, boo. I gave up on this show years ago because I just couldn't take Clara, so I didn't even notice that. I was too busy thinking about how much Donna's memory wipe, to save her life no less, tore up Ten, in contrast to how indifferent the Doctor seemed here (at first, at least. We all knew Bill would get to him!). Sometimes I have a hard time remembering that this Doctor is in any way connected to the two Doctors I loved under RTD's era.

14 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Bill is not Clara. That's good enough for me. Nice that Jenna Coleman is doing new things, because Clara was a drag. Now Capaldi has a capable supporting player for the foreseea- . . . oh. Right. Crap.

Dammit! Capaldi finally has a chance to shine, and it's his final season. It's just not fair.

13 hours ago, benteen said:

I still don't have faith in Moffat not to screw this up.

Ditto. Big time.

4 hours ago, eXiled said:

I thought Waters of Mars mixed with Midnight (due to the entity repeating everything.)

I liked Bill quite a bit. My one issue is the problem I always have with Moffat's writing - his habit of TELLING instead of SHOWING. I would have much preferred to have seen Bill at the Doctor's lectures. Would a one-minute montage have killed them? I know we got a brief clip of her sitting near the "chips" girl, but I think I would have liked the episode opening with Bill watching Twelve and becoming fascinated with him. Instead we get a wordy ping-pong match between the two of them. "Why do you keep coming to my lectures?"

Moffat often uses words when imagery would be so much more powerful and uses special effects when a more intimate character-beat would be appropriate.

I too thought of both Waters of Mars and Midnight. Which reminded me how much I used to enjoy this show with Tennant and RTD, and how much I dislike what Moffat's done with the show.

And that's a very good point about Moffat using words to tell instead of character beats to show. I think that's what has always rubbed me the wrong way about his writing. He always has to show how clever his mysteries and plots are, with any kind of emotional connection or pull between audience and characters seemingly incidental. Every viewer is different, but I definitely watch for the character beats and find the emotional story lines most interesting. And I've found those sorely lacking in the recent seasons.

3 hours ago, Llywela said:

I think the point of that set-up was to demonstrate that Bill has a lot of under-utilised potential - she has that spark of interest and intelligence, which drew her to the Doctor's lectures, but otherwise her potential was going wasting - something the Doctor has been drawn to before, in Rose and Donna, for instance. So he decided to take her on as a pet project, mostly just to give him something to do while he's hanging around the university doing whatever with his secret vault.

Great point. That's what made me like Donna and Rose so much in the first place - they were ordinary people drawn into an extraordinary world. There's no need to make the companion the specialest snowflake ever - the Doctor is already pretty special himself.

A promising start to the season - maybe I'll actually make it all the way through without giving up! It'd be nice to get at least one good season with Capaldi before he leaves.

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, smorbie said:

AFIK, River and Susan are the only ones he is related to.

Could Susan also be River's granddaughter?

[HauntedBathroom]

Another brilliant episode from Steven Moffat. Liked Bill, liked Nardole, loved Twelve, loved the return of the Movellans being as crap as they were in Destiny, and their appearance also implies that War of the Daleks is non canonical, which is just Christmas with jam on! Also, top marks for Bill thinking the TARDIS is a knockthrough - that's an easier conclusion to jump to that 'dimensional transcendentalism' stuff. I'm very much looking forward to the rest of the season, let's just hope Simms isn't as gash as he was in RTD's stuff. But without the soapdodger to bounce off, he's got to be better, right?

The only potential downside is the picture of Susan carrying the nasty implication that we might need to know her face for the future, but CAF can't be getting back on primetime, surely?

Edited April 16, 2017 by HauntedBathroom