S29.E04: Another One Bites the Dust / S29.E05: Have Faith In Me, Broski

[ByaNose]

3 hours ago, sinycalone said:

The photo above captioned Brooke and Tyler...who is Tyler?

Oooops! My mistake. I forgot to add his first name somehow. It's Seth Tyler who was paired with Olive:

http://www.buddytv.com/slideshows/the-amazing-race/meet-the-teams-of-the-amazing-race-season-29-64937.aspx

[greyhorse]

What's with all these recaps being posted by the racers, seemingly on YouTube?  In the past, weren't racers forbidden from making any internet type comments, even on message boards like these (the old TWOP, for instance)?  Yet now they can just recap away on YouTube?  I haven't watched any, and hopefully they don't give anything away.

I think Team Fun mistakenly thought that FF would equal guaranteed win.  As has been suggested, given that the Roadblock was so easy, a better strategy would have been to do the Roadblock.  Then Express Pass the detour.  But they would have had no way of knowing.

[holly4755]

Racers used to post on TWOP and I think they are posting on Reddit as well. We have to recruit them to post here! 

[Rinaldo]

They would only post after being eliminated, though. They seemed to be held to silence till then. Now all that seems to have changed.

[sinycalone]

Even though the leg was a KoR.....it counted as the fifth leg.  It is my understanding, therefore, that the chance to use the EP ended at the mat.

[peachmangosteen]

Redmond is heinous. Matt is slightly less heinous but imo it's only because he's a little more aware so he keeps his assholery under wraps better. If these two make the finale/win there is no justice in this world. You better do your thing, karma!

The way Logan referred to the woman who helped them find the doors as 'a female' sent a shudder down my spine. Logan's perpetual smile and "OOOOOOOOOO!" faces are getting super annoying.

I like Joey about a million times more than I like Tara. Tara was driving me insane at the kayaking/fishing detour. 

I hated Michael in the first ep but then I started liking him. No more. He's almost as much of a dick as Redmond and Matt. 

Scott is practically a saint. He deserves hazard pay!

Edited April 23, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Lady Calypso]

25 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I like Joey about a million times more than I like Tara. Tara was driving me insane at the kayaking/fishing detour. 

You know what? I'm cutting her some slack here. It seems like they found the clue rather quickly, probably within minutes of starting the task. I think she was perplexed that the task was done as quickly as it began. I'd probably be questioning the non-difficulty of the task too. I mean, her wanting them to compare clues with Matt/Redmond wasn't thought out, but I don't think she actually meant to give them the directions to find the clue, just that she wanted to see if it was really that easy. 

I give some teams more leniency, though. My motto is that as long as they're not being dicks and not apologizing and as long as they're not being so stupid that I worry about them, then I can give them a hand wave on some of their questionable behaviours. 

But that's just me. I stopped expecting teams to be doing things that I'm yelling at the TV for them to be doing because I don't know what it's like to be on The Amazing Race and what goes on in the unedited version of the legs, and I certainly don't know what's going on in their heads. 

[pamplemousse]

On 4/20/2017 at 9:23 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Brooke is the most fucking obnoxious person ever. I like Scott but can they follow Shamir and Sara to elimination?

Completely agree. I'd be fine to be rid of her and Brooke. I definitely think some of her attitude and irritation towards Vanck is because he's seemingly the nerdy, awkward guy. No way would she be acting like that if she'd ended up with someone she was potentially attracted to. But Vanck is a dork and loser in her eyes, so fine to treat him like a complete pest. Ugh... 

I think Ashton is still mentally stuck in high school and she got stuck with the nerd on a class project. I guess she thought this was going to be a great way for her to find a boyfriend or husband and she's severely disappointed to have ended up with Vanck. She probably should've gone for The Bachelor instead.

Brooke should've gone for Big Brother, I've never watched that show but I assume it's less physically demanding. She's so obnoxious that I had to watch most of the second episode by myself because my gf got so annoyed by Brooke that she got up and left the room.

I'm kind of over this season, part of why I like TAR is that it casts people with pre-existing relationships and it seems like lately the show has been moving away from that and it sucks.

[Hera]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

You know what? I'm cutting her some slack here. It seems like they found the clue rather quickly, probably within minutes of starting the task. I think she was perplexed that the task was done as quickly as it began. I'd probably be questioning the non-difficulty of the task too. I mean, her wanting them to compare clues with Matt/Redmond wasn't thought out, but I don't think she actually meant to give them the directions to find the clue, just that she wanted to see if it was really that easy.

This is how I saw it as well. The way it was aired it seemed like the second set of lures they checked were the ones with the clue. Joey had grabbed a lure that looked plausible as one planted by the Race that didn't say anything on the back and then realized that the lures with the writing on them had to be correct.

I think the speed at which they finished, plus the fact that she wasn't the one comparing the lures, and the fact that they found another clue right next to theirs all threw Tara. If they hadn't been in a kayak, but just walking around, Joey could have held the lures up side-by-side and she would have seen what he meant.

[aradia22]

Ugh. The beginning of this episode. Redmond just seems slimy to me now. Saying they were going over there to "be nice." Oh, really? Why start now?

Freddie Mercury's old house is a cool place for a clue box. Also, the voice of that man saying it was not Farrokh Bulsara's home was so funny to me. He was so posh and cool. Like a Disney villain.

LOL at them looking through the bags of dust. I hope no one was bothered by that and they weren't important to someone. Maybe the production stepped in to stop them from doing any more damage. It would be like in a major city if you went into the wrong luggage store and started tearing things up looking for the clues. 

The those tight, convoluted alleyways would have been a nightmare for me. The chests might also be frustrating but they looked very cool. I wonder what the instructions were on the door knocking challenge. How were they supposed to figure out which ones were the royal doors? The older pair didn't seem to know what they were looking for so I assume the part about the animals wasn't written on the clue. But why didn't they at least notice what the door they got right looked like?

Ugh, I know it's not much different from a taxi driver looking it up but it's less fun when the racers find someone with an internet connection and google to tell them where the clue box is. I respected Ashton wanting to just use the map instead of Vanck insisting on googling. Get in the spirit of the race! This is not a video game. He was so ready to give up and then they found someone who knew where all the doors were. Ashton was mean to him but she was totally right and I can see how his sad sack attitude would be grating.

I feel like Sara was saying "we" a lot when she really meant Shamir.

I was surprised there was no limit to how many teams could be in that place searching through the chests. And am I wrong in thinking most of them weren't looking for secret compartments? I'm glad Brooke had a win but mad it tipped off Matt and Redmond.

The thing about the older team was they kept screwing up and he kept complaining but they still got things done. I think that's the difference between them and Vanck/Ashton, Shamir/Sara, Brooke/Scott. She gets that it's his personality and he'll go along with her and no resentment builds. At least for now.

I don't think Scott is terrible for giving Becca that key. I mean, I don't think "she was staring at me" is the best excuse but they're a competitive but not necessarily strong team. It could be good to have an ally that isn't a huge threat. 

Ahaha. I laughed at Tara and Joey just staring while that guy twirled the statue before handing it over. Why didn't they yell "we're in a Raaaace!"

Poor London and Logan. I feel like we missed a lot of their adventures this leg. All I know about London is she's great at Taylor Swift surprised faces.

20 for 5 minutes? What currency was that in?

I do not understand how Sara and Shamir found people who knew where all three doors were and then managed to get lost for over an hour. 

I don't understand how the teams could watch the craftsmen using their feet and not understand they were going to need more leverage and it wasn't going to be as easy as paper crafts.

Sheesh, Brooke is prone to meltdowns. Didn't she nominate Scott when she knew he had a fear of heights? Suck it up. LOL at her going to Scott for a pep talk. Brooke burned that favor very quickly. I haven't forgotten last episode at all but Redmond stepping in to help Brooke was nice. And he does seem to make an effort to be friendly to the locals. Though it seemed like everyone was stepping in to talk to Brooke at some point. Do they know something we don't know about her or were they all just moved by how pitiable she was? Based on the way she went to Scott, she seems to need constant positive reinforcement. They didn't let us get a good look at the ladle but I think it's a fair assumption they just let her go because she was having such a breakdown.

Coco Beach looked gorgeous. And I was happy that Tara and Joey were the ones to get the $5000 each.

I thought Shamir might have worked out some aggression making that pasta strainer. I noticed that when Phil came by Shamir's eyes kept flicking away from him like he was looking at production. I'm glad they were put out of their misery. 

[Thog]

Kudos to the guy whose van was dented, and his reaction was "Eh, it's not as bad as the other dents. Go along your merry way." I'm sure the presence of a TV crew may have had something to do with it, but I'd like to think folks in Norway are just that nice. Can you imagine that happening in the States?

Quote

 I haven't forgotten last episode at all but Redmond stepping in to help Brooke was nice.

At first I thought so too, but then they cut immediately to him telling his partner that he knew Brooke reacts badly to being told to calm down, and he was hoping to freak her out more. 

[aradia22]

Aha! I knew it. I knew when at the start of episode 4 that Matt and Redmond harping on it being "personal" was because they thought it was gendered. That comment about an all male team leading to less drama gave them away. Gross. 

Scott made me laugh with the express pass stuff. I root for weird people but something about this highly dysfunctional team works for me. They haven't been awful in a way that turns me off yet. 

Self-navigation!

I didn't hear what the judge said but if Brooke already hates lox and this fish was fermented, I get the complaining. But choke it down and move on. Given his fear of heights, it's probably better that they didn't get the Fast Forward. Wait... oh God, Scott had to climb AGAIN? God damn it, Brooke.

The trolls made me think of some community theater production of Cats.

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 Logan - Using "female" to refer to the woman who helped them in Zanzibar hurt his stock.  That's almost always a flashing asshole signal, though he hasn't otherwise shown it yet.

I picked up on that too. But I'm willing to write it off as some people who are not horrible do just genuinely say "female." Maybe it's a regional thing.

Quote

These two episodes solidified for me how much I truly dislike both Ashton and Brooke.  Both of them suck huge donkey balls.  Both are nasty to their partners.  Ashton is a pill.  She didn't get the good looking hunk that she wanted.  She got an Asian nerd.  Too bad.  Her dislike of him is palpable and completely superficial.  I doubt the reason why they aren't functioning effectively is because "we are so different".  It's because he's not the good looking (white) hunk that she wanted.  She's probably looking at Logan and wondering why she couldn't have gotten him, because I'm sure she thinks she deserved him.  Nasty woman.

Wow, I think that's reading way too much into it. For the sake of argument, Ashton seems plenty capable and it seems like Vanck recognized that when he picked her but has gone on to keep second-guessing her and taking over tasks when it seems like she could have done them more quickly. And I think it's fair for her to be upset that he grabbed her stuff but not her pack which presumably had all the important stuff. It's not like he had any other responsibilities besides watching her do the task. I feel like during the map challenge we got a sense of how she had a handle on things and he still kept questioning her. Honestly, it seemed like he wanted to be in charge and he had a problem with her leading. She was repeatedly right and he kept telling her she was wrong. That would annoy the hell out of me.

Ha. I had another good laugh when Scott brought up the express pass again. I'm sorry. I like them. I think they're developing a bickering siblings relationship.

I agree with everyone who says that the Fast Forward should have been... faster. I expect there was something left out in editing. Maybe some more weather stuff. But it seemed like they had the most fun and while prizes are nice, the most important leg to win is the last one.

God damn it, Tara and Joey. Don't have brain farts that help out Matt and Redmond. I feel like even if they wanted to consult (which was dumb), Joey didn't need to tell them A) where the clue was and B) what it said.

Even though I (irrationally) kind of like them, I did think it was weird that Scott and Brooke think Vanck and Ashton are the most hated.

Aha. Brooke made me laugh when for once she realized she couldn't complain when she was only carrying one firecracker and Scott was carrying all the rest. 

I'm glad the minor car accident was handled quickly with no big issues.

Climbing that far uphill would have destroyed me but you expect that on the race. Liz and Michael went so far out of their way to avoid it.

The happy family watching Liz and Michael bickering at the mat was hella awkward.

[Rinaldo]

58 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Ugh, I know it's not much different from a taxi driver looking it up but it's less fun when the racers find someone with an internet connection and google to tell them where the clue box is. I respected Ashton wanting to just use the map instead of Vanck insisting on googling. Get in the spirit of the race!

I can't see a sprit-of-the-race difference between finding information printed on paper and finding it in pixels on a screen. Both have been used since the beginning of TAR. The challenge has always been to find the right tradeoff between using the source in hand and taking time out to find another source of information that may speed things up (but if it doesn't, you've lost time). Ashton was ridiculous here, not wanting to spend 30 seconds online so they could bumble around for an hour.

[aradia22]

Quote

I can't see a sprit-of-the-race difference between finding information printed on paper and finding it in pixels on a screen. Both have been used since the beginning of TAR. The challenge has always been to find the right tradeoff between using the source in hand and taking time out to find another source of information that may speed things up (but if it doesn't, you've lost time). Ashton was ridiculous here, not wanting to spend 30 seconds online so they could bumble around for an hour.

I just did a quick google search and I didn't find a clear answer of those 3 doors so it wasn't like looking up a landmark like where is the Eiffel Tower. We don't know how long they were looking (it didn't seem like they were bumbling for an hour) but after they found the guy who knew where the doors were, they seemed to speed through it. 

[aradia22]

Quote

If you truly want to hate Ashton - this not shown clip should do it 

Actually, it didn't make me hate her. What I noticed from that clip is that yes, she was complaining and trying to impress upon him the importance of not making little mistakes but he never once apologized. She acted decisively throughout the video whereas he pretended to contribute by repeating things she had said. And when she refused to go farther up into the building (carrying on with that decisiveness in the face of his indecisiveness) and she found out she was wrong, she apologized pretty quickly 3:46. Someone who feels like he needs to assert himself all the time without skill to back it up, someone who is super indecisive except about being critical of me, and someone who doesn't seem to apologize when he's wrong. Yeah, I can see where she might complain about being stuck with him which is far from the nastiest thing someone's said on the race. 

[legaleagle53]

On 4/22/2017 at 2:13 PM, AZChristian said:

Hubby and I had this discussion after seeing the show.  The default way most GPS units are set, you're always going "up" . . . so it might look like you're heading north.  So "north" doesn't always mean "north" in that context.  Whatever is straight in front of you might erroneously be described as "north," and I suspect that's what Liz meant.  

We have (over 52+ years of marriage) had many "discussions" about directions.  After one memorable "discussion," I finally said to him (there were guests in the car), "Sweetie, I know you feel that you're following the directions we were given, but no matter how many times you go back to the main road and do the same thing, this is still not where we're supposed to be.  Can we please just pull over to the side of the road and talk about this?"  The directions said "Go to the intersection where there's a pancake house on the left and a gas station on the right.  Turn left."  After we pulled over and he started to listen to me, we went back to the main road and continued on it for a couple of miles.  Sure enough . . . about 2 miles down the road, there was ANOTHER pancake house and another gas station.  Bingo!

So now our "go-to" phrase when we're having a "discussion" is:  "Can we please pull over to the side of the road and talk about this?"  It means, "We are NOT listening to each other.  Let's focus on that."

Which is no doubt one of the many reasons that you've successfully navigated through 52+ years of marriage together.  Congratulations, and may you have many more years ahead of you!  :)

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, aradia22 said:

t the complaining. But choke it down and move on.

Yep.  So, it's cockroach, dipped in dogshit and fried in camel's piss.  But this is The Amazing Race, so for King and Country, eat that sucker!

[sinycalone]

Ashton is rude and annoying at times...but she's had reason to be irritated by Vanck's behavior.  Of course, she often dismisses his suggestions without clear reasons.  So I see them both at fault when it comes to why their team is dysfunctional.  He was right to check online, but wasn't forceful enough.  She did not listen to his reasoning.  Rinse, repeat.

OTOH, Tara and Joey may bicker but do listen to each other, get over what issue was involved, and move on.  Hopefully, they will keep functioning at this level.

[ozzieink]

  On 4/22/2017 at 5:13 PM, AZChristian said:

Hubby and I had this discussion after seeing the show.  The default way most GPS units are set, you're always going "up" . . . so it might look like you're heading north.  So "north" doesn't always mean "north" in that context.  Whatever is straight in front of you might erroneously be described as "north," and I suspect that's what Liz meant.  

We have (over 52+ years of marriage) had many "discussions" about directions.  After one memorable "discussion," I finally said to him (there were guests in the car), "Sweetie, I know you feel that you're following the directions we were given, but no matter how many times you go back to the main road and do the same thing, this is still not where we're supposed to be.  Can we please just pull over to the side of the road and talk about this?"  The directions said "Go to the intersection where there's a pancake house on the left and a gas station on the right.  Turn left."  After we pulled over and he started to listen to me, we went back to the main road and continued on it for a couple of miles.  Sure enough . . . about 2 miles down the road, there was ANOTHER pancake house and another gas station.  Bingo!

So now our "go-to" phrase when we're having a "discussion" is:  "Can we please pull over to the side of the road and talk about this?"  It means, "We are NOT listening to each other.  Let's focus on that."

Which is no doubt one of the many reasons that you've successfully navigated through 52+ years of marriage together.  Congratulations, and may you have many more years ahead of you!  :)

Reading about your "discussions" over directions made me laugh. Being happily married for 36 years means we're doing something right, but getting a GPS didn't quite solve the directions problem since my husband never listens to our GPS either! Which then leads to the off repeated "discussion" of WHY have a GPS if you're not going to listen to it?

[AZChristian]

11 minutes ago, ozzieink said:

Reading about your "discussions" over directions made me laugh. Being happily married for 36 years means we're doing something right, but getting a GPS didn't quite solve the directions problem since my husband never listens to our GPS either! Which then leads to the off repeated "discussion" of WHY have a GPS if you're not going to listen to it?

A joke I once heard:  Why is it that a man ignores his wife's directions for so many years, then gets a GPS and listens more to the "other woman" in the car!!!

[piequinn35]

That kayaking d-tour was easy, the fun team was shocked they were not first place :))

So happy Shamir is gone, Brooke should be next to go then Ashton then Michael... :))

[CrashTextDummie]

First episode had one of my favorite pieces of absurdist humor in TAR history when Mike and Liz where led to a random person's house who seemed to speak in riddles/passwords, and then they were led to another random place to dig through thematically appropriate bags of dirt. The conversation Mike had with the random resident cracked me up so much I had to rewatch it and transcribe:

Mike: We're looking for the home of Farrokh Bulsara.

Resident: I'm not Farrokh Bulsara. Farrokh Bulsara does not have a home here.

Mike: He does not have a home?

Resident: No. Farrokh Bulsara's home has been demolished many years ago.

Mike: Another one bites the dust. Where was it demolished?

Resident: Shangani Street.

Brooke is entertaining to me. I also don't feel particularly bad for Scott because he seems to be the kind of guy who can handle her personality. Ashton and Vanck are weirdly growing on me as a team. I'm fascinated by how well they are able to get through the legs despite their obvious lack of compatibility. Ashton actually strikes me as a resourceful and competent racer and I loved how they utilized their car both during the detour and to get to the pit stop and that it actually worked out in their favor. An unexpected perk of self-navigation.

The only person I really want off my TV is Mike. It seemed like he stopped cooperating the minute he didn't get to do Kayaking (which I suspect might have had something to do with them being the only team to tip over their boat in leg 1) and the entire back half of the episode was him basically being a colossal Shamir-like ass to his partner. Speaking of, I'm sorry we lost Sara, who deserved so much better.

[Hera]

4 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I just did a quick google search and I didn't find a clear answer of those 3 doors so it wasn't like looking up a landmark like where is the Eiffel Tower. We don't know how long they were looking (it didn't seem like they were bumbling for an hour) but after they found the guy who knew where the doors were, they seemed to speed through it. 

Out of curiosity, I also tried googling "stone town zanzibar royal doors" and couldn't find anything in the first few hits either. Putting quotes are "royal doors" got some hits on Pinterest, which showed photos of doors, but didn't really give directions or much to assure someone looking at them that they were the "royal doors" the clue talked about. There were also hits for recaps of this episode, which tells me that there wouldn't have been much for someone on the race to find. This task really seemed to require teams to luck into finding a local who knew what they were talking about and who could tell them where all the doors were. Of course, no one could have known that from the outset.

There was a cut between when Vanck started searching for where stuff was and when Ashton got him to agree to leave, so we don't know how long he was at the computer, but it didn't seem like he got any useful information out of it, since he remarked that the stuff he had found online was "not very clear". That means however long it was, it was a waste of time—but no one could have known that it would be when he sat down (though I don't think it takes much thought to realize that Google won't have Street View for Stone Town). The receptionist did give them instructions of some sort and marked spots on their map before Vanck decided he wanted to look stuff up online, so I can see why that would be annoying to Ashton: she wanted to get moving with the information they had, but I can also understand Vanck's point of view of wanting to double check and be sure about where they were going. I don't really think one way of running the race is better than the other, but I do think both people on the team need to be in agreement about whether they're going to try to get as far as they can with the information they have or make absolutely certain they know what they're doing before heading out (and to what extent they're going to run the race this way, since every team will use a mix of both strategies), and it's clear that Ashton and Vanck are not.

I also wonder if this is another team where one person has better navigational skills than the other (like Liz and Michael), which makes the person who is more directionally challenged feel uncomfortable and causes him to second guess his partner. The logic goes "How could my partner know where to go if I don't and we have all the same information?"

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Aha! I knew it. I knew when at the start of episode 4 that Matt and Redmond harping on it being "personal" was because they thought it was gendered. That comment about an all male team leading to less drama gave them away. Gross. 

Scott made me laugh with the express pass stuff. I root for weird people but something about this highly dysfunctional team works for me. They haven't been awful in a way that turns me off yet. 

Self-navigation!

I didn't hear what the judge said but if Brooke already hates lox and this fish was fermented, I get the complaining. But choke it down and move on. Given his fear of heights, it's probably better that they didn't get the Fast Forward. Wait... oh God, Scott had to climb AGAIN? God damn it, Brooke.

The trolls made me think of some community theater production of Cats.

I picked up on that too. But I'm willing to write it off as some people who are not horrible do just genuinely say "female." Maybe it's a regional thing.

Wow, I think that's reading way too much into it. For the sake of argument, Ashton seems plenty capable and it seems like Vanck recognized that when he picked her but has gone on to keep second-guessing her and taking over tasks when it seems like she could have done them more quickly. And I think it's fair for her to be upset that he grabbed her stuff but not her pack which presumably had all the important stuff. It's not like he had any other responsibilities besides watching her do the task. I feel like during the map challenge we got a sense of how she had a handle on things and he still kept questioning her. Honestly, it seemed like he wanted to be in charge and he had a problem with her leading. She was repeatedly right and he kept telling her she was wrong. That would annoy the hell out of me.

Ha. I had another good laugh when Scott brought up the express pass again. I'm sorry. I like them. I think they're developing a bickering siblings relationship.

I agree with everyone who says that the Fast Forward should have been... faster. I expect there was something left out in editing. Maybe some more weather stuff. But it seemed like they had the most fun and while prizes are nice, the most important leg to win is the last one.

God damn it, Tara and Joey. Don't have brain farts that help out Matt and Redmond. I feel like even if they wanted to consult (which was dumb), Joey didn't need to tell them A) where the clue was and B) what it said.

Even though I (irrationally) kind of like them, I did think it was weird that Scott and Brooke think Vanck and Ashton are the most hated.

Aha. Brooke made me laugh when for once she realized she couldn't complain when she was only carrying one firecracker and Scott was carrying all the rest. 

I'm glad the minor car accident was handled quickly with no big issues.

Climbing that far uphill would have destroyed me but you expect that on the race. Liz and Michael went so far out of their way to avoid it.

The happy family watching Liz and Michael bickering at the mat was hella awkward.

IMO, it would have been very, uncool for Joey not to tell The Boys where they could find a clue, after they helped him and Tara figure out what they had to do next.   Both teams probably would have been floating around in kayaks for hours, if they hadn't helped each other figure it all out.  But, I imagine M&R would have eventually found a lure with a clue, and then known what to do with it.  I'm not sure Tara & Joey would have ever figured out the that the word on the clue was the pit stop.  

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

I can't see a sprit-of-the-race difference between finding information printed on paper and finding it in pixels on a screen. Both have been used since the beginning of TAR. The challenge has always been to find the right tradeoff between using the source in hand and taking time out to find another source of information that may speed things up (but if it doesn't, you've lost time). Ashton was ridiculous here, not wanting to spend 30 seconds online so they could bumble around for an hour.

I totally agree, a few minutes online, will at worst, cost you a few minutes, and at best could save you hours.

I don't think Ashton didn't want to use the internet out of any sort of "spirit of the game" concerns.  IMO, it was because:

1) She isn't that bright.

2) It wasn't her idea.  The idea of listening to anything that (in her eyes) nerdy little worm of a man, she was "stuck with", had to say was simply unthinkable to Assy.  

39 minutes ago, CrashTextDummie said:

First episode had one of my favorite pieces of absurdist humor in TAR history when Mike and Liz where led to a random person's house who seemed to speak in riddles/passwords, and then they were led to another random place to dig through thematically appropriate bags of dirt. The conversation Mike had with the random resident cracked me up so much I had to rewatch it and transcribe:

Mike: We're looking for the home of Farrokh Bulsara.

Resident: I'm not Farrokh Bulsara. Farrokh Bulsara does not have a home here.

Mike: He does not have a home?

Resident: No. Farrokh Bulsara's home has been demolished many years ago.

Mike: Another one bites the dust. Where was it demolished?

Resident: Shangani Street.

Brooke is entertaining to me. I also don't feel particularly bad for Scott because he seems to be the kind of guy who can handle her personality. Ashton and Vanck are weirdly growing on me as a team. I'm fascinated by how well they are able to get through the legs despite their obvious lack of compatibility. Ashton actually strikes me as a resourceful and competent racer and I loved how they utilized their car both during the detour and to get to the pit stop and that it actually worked out in their favor. An unexpected perk of self-navigation.

The only person I really want off my TV is Mike. It seemed like he stopped cooperating the minute he didn't get to do Kayaking (which I suspect might have had something to do with them being the only team to tip over their boat in leg 1) and the entire back half of the episode was him basically being a colossal Shamir-like ass to his partner. Speaking of, I'm sorry we lost Sara, who deserved so much better.

What was the deal with that exchange?  Did the TPTB set that up to screw with Liz and Michael?  Was the guy a practical joker?  Was he thinking of a different Farrokh Bulsara?  Has he become so tired of tourists mistaking his home for Freddy Mercury's that he now messes with their heads?   I could see myself doing that if people kept knocking on my door looking for some dead, famous person's home. :)

I loved how Mike made the connection between "Another One Bites the Dust" and the demolished house.  It actually sort of made sense.  

Edited April 24, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[aradia22]

All M&R told T&J was to go ask someone on the street what the word meant. In the grand scheme of teams helping each other and sharing information that falls... pretty damn low. And unlike Scott giving Becca the key, I doubt Matt and Redmond will pay it back.

Re: Google. I don't think Ashton isn't bright for not wanting to look up the doors considering the search doesn't turn up much. It was much easier for them to ask locals who knew exactly where the doors were and could provide more useful directions. It seemed like navigating by street names was difficult in general. 

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 10:40 PM, Christina said:

How can you go on the race and not understand how a compass works?

But Liz was right and Michael was wrong on this task.  She followed the pictures on the map, and that got them to the correct buildings. 

On ‎04‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 11:28 PM, Amy Beth said:

I'm sorry, was Brooke literally hyperventilating over having to eat lox?

I find Brooke annoying, but I was totally with her there.  I hate fish, hate it.  I might've been able to eat that raw fish on AR, but I would've immediately barfed it back up.

[etagloh]

5 hours ago, aradia22 said:

She acted decisively throughout the video whereas he pretended to contribute by repeating things she had said. And when she refused to go farther up into the building (carrying on with that decisiveness in the face of his indecisiveness) and she found out she was wrong, she apologized pretty quickly

When are displays of "decisiveness" actually decisive, and when are they impulsive? On TAR, running around alleyways with the crew trying to keep pace conveys "doing something" more than huddling behind a computer, but that's more a trick of the filming and editing process.

A good team has a sense of the clock ticking and the appropriate amount of time to devote to things. A bad team either cuts its losses too early (e.g. Detour-switching) or over-invests time in a losing battle. If you're a TAR fan who gets cast, you can definitely learn strategy from previous seasons, but there are also risks in trying to behave like your favourite teams in situations where their edit has silently cut out the less telegenic stuff.

Vanck comes across as the sort of person who would never be able to take a vacation without weeks of research, a big guidebook and a detailed itinerary, and would also prefer working from a map or a printout than asking people. Ashton sometimes acts as if not being "decisive" and in motion means you're falling behind. It all adds up to a lot of dysfunction, as it did with Mike & Liz. I think Hera is on the mark here: teams with more established relationships generally have a way of navigating from imperfect information (whether it's mutual, or just a truce that frays under stress) but that doesn't apply here.

[aradia22]

Quote

Vanck comes across as the sort of person who would never be able to take a vacation without weeks of research, a big guidebook and a detailed itinerary, and would also prefer working from a map or a printout than asking people. Ashton sometimes acts as if not being "decisive" and in motion means you're falling behind. 

I agree about Ashton needing to be in motion while Vanck's personality makes him want to slow her down, but I also think as Hera said, Vanck feeling uncomfortable with Ashton taking the lead makes him dig at her more. It's not just that he wanted to google that one thing. It's that he's constantly undermining her, telling her she's going the wrong way, trying to take the map out of her hands, repeating what she says to act like he's contributing. My sense of things was that he picked her and tried to take the lead in their relationship early on. And while they placed fairly well when he did the roadblocks, he might have realized that Ashton is more capable than he's given her credit for being. I hate that whole alpha/beta stuff but it's like he's not willing to trample over her like Redmond might have but he's still going to needle and undermine her. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

yes the ladle thing appeared to be difficult, but she had most of the circle cut out before Becca finished it, so she was able to do it.  

Also, I've had to deal with metal shears like that before and you want to know a trick? You can put them on the ground and step on them to make the cuts. It's slow going but if your grip and hand strength isn't strong enough, you can use your feet. She was just too panicked and defeatist to think it through.

[Jobiska]

On 4/23/2017 at 7:44 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

You are correct, he isn't horrible. I was responding to someone who used the terms "horrible and annoying" so my response contained those words. But I also don't find Ashton horrible or a nasty bitch

That was I, and I conceded he could be annoying (in the 135 degree thing, but since then also), but that I found "horrible" (which yes, I used first, but I felt it described some reactions to the 135 degree thing) quite strong for anything he's done (even up to these episodes, even leaving the pack behind if indeed he had promised to watch it); but please don't conflate me with folks who may have called Ashton a "nasty bitch" either.  I don't use that phrase.  I like her a lot less than I like Vanck, but I don't list him among my favorite racers either; he does seem quite difficult to communicate decisively with.   (Thanks also for rewatching and finding what Vanck said about "pretty girl, good at sales;" I couldn't find it, but don't necessarily take it to be his only reason, because he just is not. very. good. at communicating in general, even in talking heads).   I do sympathize with him because conflict and someone yelling at me makes me shut down and not function well.  They are a terrible match, but have strengths, and I hope they can start to realize that despite blips they're doing much better than some other people.

[tvfanatic13]

Can we do a tribe switch next week?? Please ???

[piequinn35]

How do they split the travel reward, sp. Michael and Liz, I'm sure they will not travel together lol, monetize the travel reward or pay the other one money so he/she can bring whoever he/she likes to bring.

[AZChristian]

11 minutes ago, piequinn35 said:

How do they split the travel reward, sp. Michael and Liz, I'm sure they will not travel together lol, monetize the travel reward or pay the other one money so he/she can bring whoever he/she likes to bring.

Someone online said they might get Travelocity vouchers, not the actual trips they talk about.  So if they each get half the value of a "trip for two," they could take that money and go where they want with whom they want.

[Christina]

I don't think Michael is sexist or passive-aggressive and I don't think Liz was right about the map. That entire exchange is a perfect example of strangers being unable to communicate with each other because they do not know or understand how the other one speaks. What looks like passive-aggressive assholishness is frustration reaching a boiling point on both sides. I don't think either one was trying to undermine the other with passive-aggressive comments, like you usually see when the term is used.

Liz was holding the map, said something about finding north then said "it's that way" because it showed the compass on the map. Because she said something about finding north, Michael looked at his compass and said it was the other way from the direction she was looking, which was a different direction from where she started say "that way was north." She spun a little, resulting in his "magic paper" comments. She was trying to orientate herself with a landmark, but she didn't say those words and in fact, turned with the map while Michael was trying to look at it over her shoulder. Michael says north is that way, she ignored him and said "no because the map..." Once she saw something on the map she recognized, she turned them around to the direction Michael said was north according to his compass, because she remembered seeing that landmark when they passed it, then said, "See, I told you," or something like that, but not snotty, just matter of fact but still rubbed Michael the wrong way and he said she was right. He knew that way was north because he looked at his compass and told her that already. She didn't acknowledge it, which was part of the blow-up on the mat.

Michael wanted to do the kayaking but Liz didn't and said no firmly, even when they came across that starting place. She also wasn't passive-aggressive. She kept flipping them back on the first challenge because she wasn't use to canoeing, and didn't want to do it again. Michael was saying he could kayak and it would be faster, but she didn't want to and that was that; it was her decision but when he said that later, she took offense then he took offense that she didn't admit she made some decisions and he followed her lead some, when she was acting like it was all his decisions.

They spent the entire day with her dismissing him and him picking and poking at her, which I would say is passive-aggressive behavior normally, but in this instance just seemed borne of frustration and both were then trying to let the other one have their way, which was destructive in the opposite way of insisting it be done their own way. At the mat, Liz seemed unwilling to see that she had any part in the dysfunction, where Michael was saying that they weren't clicking and then said that he was going to let her make all the decisions, which would be passive-aggressive again if it weren't for the fact that they were both at their wits ends with each other because neither one can communicate clearly and completely and neither can read the other one's mind. They're just not meshing well. 

Michael was right about the direction of north, she seemed unable to read the map because she just kept turning with it and didn't explain to him that she was trying to situate herself, she just ignored him which made him get louder and more frustrated and made her tune him out more. Neither one of them are the bad guy in this situation, but they were both right, wrong and stubborn and will probably not learn how to communicate before the experience is over. They will probably both watch this episode and the other one's perspective will be crystal clear, but in the moment, they couldn't.

A beautiful location ruined, in my opinion, by a bunch of people yelling, arguing and whining because someone thought it would be enjoyable to watch strangers annoy each other, even though the blind date couples were largely disliked.

[holly4755]

I disagree. They flipped how many times in that canoe? They were in Norway all wrapped up, it was June the waters have not warmed a lot. I can understand after that first time not wanting to be in a boat with him,. yes that prevented them from getting the task down that way, but it made sense. They may not have died, but things like that leave a lasting impression, and they had a choice.  

So this started out with him being pissed because he wanted to do the fish thing. I understand that, but then she was using the map and successfully,  He wanted to get oriented first, but she had the map and knew she saw one of the monuments . but instead of saying he wanted to orient the map he started to mock her for thinkt that the north on the map was what she meant when clearly that was not what she said. and instead of talking like normal people, he started to make fun of her and kept it up because he thought she was so dumb,  he had done that before, Fine they did not communicate well, but she just kept working toward the task and found the building , while he could not be bothered to do anything else but make fun of her, now if I find a video where he is not making fun of her, I will share it, but so far I have not. I have found many other videos of them disagreeing and he goes for the cheap shot right away. they are loaded in the media thread. He needed to drive, the woman could not drive, and he hit a car, that seemed to calm him some what.  There is a lot of stress, and some people get down to a level where something not so nice comes out.

Navigating is their weak spot because it is his weak spot, I don't remember seeing people have compasses before on the show but it seems to handicap some people instead of helping them.  

[Lamb18]

On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 2:58 PM, illdoc said:

Wasn't there a FF where they had to have their heads shaved and they did not finish first (in fact, finished very close to the end)? Not the one with the "models" who didn't go through with it and not the ones from Kentucky (who got waylaid by a speed bump), the one inbetween. 

I remember Uchenna and Joyce getting their heads shaved but I don't remember what their placement was or even what season. Was it season 7, the Rob and Amber one?

On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 3:13 PM, AZChristian said:

Liz and the bearded guy.  Let's put two passive aggressive people together and see what happens!  I think bearded one is worse than Liz.  He was yelling at her that she didn't know how to read a map, but in the end, it seems like she was right.  And what exactly happened at the end?  They thought they could take an elevator straight up through a hill to the top?  Bearded one remarked that there were 50 cars at the top, so does that mean there was a way to drive up there rather than walking the stairs?  Seems like that TPTB wouldn't have it that way.

 

(Sorry . . . can't get out of the Quote Box.)  Mr. AZC (who watches more closely than I do) says that Team Fun drove up and parked near the top.

Ashton and Vanck also drove up.

My theory is that Brooke applied to be on Big Brother - she seems to be the person who would fit in well on that show. I wouldn't be surprised if Ashton and Vanck were potential BB contestants, too. High-strung women and smart Asian geek? Fun times in the house (from BB's point of view)!

Brooke = Flo.  Maybe Flooke? "Bro" probably doesn't work that well. "Blo"?

Speaking of BB, I thought of a couple of pairings that I'd enjoy seeing on TAR: James and Natalie, not everyone likes them, but they'd be an enjoyable team as one that would try hard and be decent to each other. Also Shelby and Morgan from BB: OTT would be a fun women's team! Shelby's sarcasm and Morgan's drive. I would not want to see Nicole and Corey (barf). Paul and Victor would ham it up too much for my taste like the Afghanimals.

[Lamb18]

Another thought:

I wonder if Redmond has a little crush on Ashton because he reminds me of an adolescent guy needling a girl he has a crush on just to get her attention. No excuses for him since he's a total jackass to Vanck, who just lets it roll off his shoulders.

[Netfoot]

10 hours ago, holly4755 said:

he started to make fun of her and kept it up because he thought she was so dumb...

On the mat, she should have said, "Thing is, Phil, I have a measured IQ of 161, so when my intellectual inferiors start ranting at me, I tend not to listen."

Then, after the smoke stopped coming out of his ears, and he'd cleaned the shite out of his shorts... 

[Rachel RSL]

15 hours ago, Christina said:

I don't think Michael is sexist or passive-aggressive

Not sure about sexist but Michael is most definitely passive-aggressive and it had absolutely nothing to do with either of them being at wit's end and everything to do with his own ego.  After Michael was wrong about the elevator, Liz calmly explains that they should have gone up and around and he says: "Well, what do you wanna do then. You know everything."  Then, as they're getting out of the elevator, Liz is calmly trying to figure out where they should go and when she attempts to ask him a question, he says: "Forget it. Forget it. You know everything."  Then, as they're walking up the hill, she asks him "What was the name of that place again?" and he responds "You know everything, you tell me." And when she responds that she's just asking a question, he answers back with "I'm not capable of making a decision."  All that douchey passive-aggressiveness simply because he didn't want to admit that he was wrong about the elevator. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[piewarmer]

On 4/22/2017 at 0:01 PM, amazingracefan said:

I'll never be with team fun, she is just too annoying.  That mouth agape look and the whole fun meter stuff.  It's so obvious I'm supposed to like them according to the edit, but I don't always follow clues like that.

I actually like her quite a lot when the hat comes off and the TEAM FUN FUN WOCKA WOCKA WOCKA WE SO ZANY METER schtick gets dialed back. I see a competency I appreciate in those moments.

[Bryce Lynch]

21 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Another thought:

I wonder if Redmond has a little crush on Ashton because he reminds me of an adolescent guy needling a girl he has a crush on just to get her attention. No excuses for him since he's a total jackass to Vanck, who just lets it roll off his shoulders.

Or mabye Ashton just annoys all the racer with her pushy, entitled personality, and Redmond is the only one who reacts to it.

The more I think about it, the more I think Ashton and Vanck screwed themselves with the early revenge UTURN.

There are 2 more U-Turns coming up in the race and they will not be able to use them.  That could get them eliminated.  Plus R&M will be looking to U turn them, and if it is a double U turn, A & V won't be able to give themselves a chance by U turning another team.

[HurricaneVal]

All this map and compass talk reminds me of the Friends episode in London where Joey had to "get into the map" to figure out where they were and where they needed to go, so he looked around, spread one of those 3D pop-up maps on the sidewalk in a certain orientation, stepped onto the map, looked around, nodded his head and that was that.  This whole time Chandler is freaking out because he is so embarrassed over Joey's behavior.  I'm watching all this thinking, "Right-on, Joey, be the map!"  Now when this episode comes up in reruns, I'll be viewing it in the context of The Amazing Race and it will become even that much funnier!  As I recall, I even think that Joey had one of those obnoxious "ugly American" fanny packs similar to the TAR race packs...

[greyhorse]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 8:17 PM, Christina said:

Liz was holding the map, said something about finding north then said "it's that way" because it showed the compass on the map. Because she said something about finding north, Michael looked at his compass and said it was the other way from the direction she was looking, which was a different direction from where she started say "that way was north." She spun a little, resulting in his "magic paper" comments. She was trying to orientate herself with a landmark, but she didn't say those words and in fact, turned with the map while Michael was trying to look at it over her shoulder. Michael says north is that way, she ignored him and said "no because the map..." Once she saw something on the map she recognized, she turned them around to the direction Michael said was north according to his compass, because she remembered seeing that landmark when they passed it, then said, "See, I told you," or something like that, but not snotty, just matter of fact but still rubbed Michael the wrong way and he said she was right. He knew that way was north because he looked at his compass and told her that already. She didn't acknowledge it, which was part of the blow-up on the mat.

 

Yeah, this was a poor sequence for Michael.  All this yelling about "true north" and "magic map".  If somebody isn't used to using a compass, they would have no idea what true north means.  Michael whipping out the compass and telling Liz which way is north really is no help unless they can find a landmark to orient themselves.  I think that's what Liz was indeed trying to do but it was really Michael that was confused.  He gave some quick apology I think later on but it was just evidence of how these two have poor communication.

TPTB must be having a field day with all this in-team fighting.  I hope they don't enjoy it so much that this will be the team formats from now on.  I care more about the existing relationships between partners than to see two strangers try to forge one while competing for $1 million.  Unfortunately, I have a feeling that the latter makes for better tv.

[Nalan]

12 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Or mabye Ashton just annoys all the racer with her pushy, entitled personality, and Redmond is the only one who reacts to it.

Or it's the first one.

[Lakebum]

On 4/24/2017 at 5:34 AM, aradia22 said:

 

LOL at them looking through the bags of dust. I hope no one was bothered by that and they weren't important to someone. Maybe the production stepped in to stop them from doing any more damage. It would be like in a major city if you went into the wrong luggage store and started tearing things up looking for the clues. 

Or commandeered some random guy's shoeshine stand...

[aradia22]

Quote

TPTB must be having a field day with all this in-team fighting.  I hope they don't enjoy it so much that this will be the team formats from now on.  I care more about the existing relationships between partners than to see two strangers try to forge one while competing for $1 million.  Unfortunately, I have a feeling that the latter makes for better tv.

Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion, but I don't hate the strangers gimmick. I think I said this a couple of times during the dating season but the problem there to me was the (lack of) matchmaking part, not the strangers. I've never been that convinced that strong relationships make the show. Do you take your bestest friend on the race or do you take the strongest guy you know? If you've only been dating a few months, how much of a couple are you? And the parents/children and years of marriage couples bickered plenty too. My argument that season was that if they could just make superteams out of a strangers seasons... competent people, fans of the show who know how it works, strong, smart, etc. that might be interesting. I don't think we've got that going on across the board but it was a possibility (RIP Seth/Olive and all-female team). 

[Netfoot]

6 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion, but I don't hate the strangers gimmick. I think I said this a couple of times during the dating season but the problem there to me was the (lack of) matchmaking part, not the strangers.

It isn't the team makeup that I dislike.  Teams with a pre-existing relationship worked perfectly well for many seasons, but if they want teams of polar opposites, or teams of people who perversely have the same name, or teams of opposing football supporters, I don't care.

What I care about it that we spent 1½ minutes watching Liz & Michael bitching and sniping at one another on the mat.  After watching them bitch and snipe at each other all through the episode.  I don't want to waste that time watching two people fight.  I want to spend that time watching two people race!  Or at least to watch them enjoy the beautiful scenery that surrounds them.  But TPTB seem to believe that people showing the worst of themselves makes for good television.  And they are tweaking and tuning the show specifically to generate rubbishy arguments for us to watch.  Which means we get to see crappy behaviour from L&M, and not see them enjoying the view from Mount Aksla, climbing a coconut tree, eating an ostrich egg, or chatting excitedly with Phil!

If the show is to become all about bitching and backstabbing, then they should be told to build a shelter and live in it for 39 days!

[Fukui San]

I don't mind the strangers concept this season either.  The level of intrateam bitching is within the realm of seasons with teams of preexisting relationships. In those cases we have the knowledge that the teams going at each other probably have to live with one another afterward, in one way or another. In this case we can take comfort that Sara never has to see Shamir again in her life. If only we could say the same for some of the horrible couples we've seen over the years. 

This season reminds me of the kid reality competition show from a few years back Endurance, in which the first challenge paired off kids into teams of two (all boy-girl).  Then they do challenges, have eliminations, etc. 

I know a big part of the challenges of casting is the production team fiddling with the teams. Interviews with racers over the years often had racers say something like "I auditioned with my sister, but they made me run the race with my boyfriend" or something like that.  The producers try to cast for intrateam drama rather than putting forth all functional teams since that might be boring in their eyes.

I wouldn't want every seasons to be like this, but once every four or five or so.  Just no dating concept.  That sucked.

[BusyOctober]

Here's my Amazing Race rewrite -How about a Survivor style shake up with a team swap? If you come in last on a non-elimination leg, you still get the extra detour, BUT once you complete it, you get the opportunity to trade partners.  I'd love to some kind of gimmick to allow Scott and Vanck to swap & race together and leave Brooke and Ashton behind.  I don't think those two whiners could cross the street together, let alone make it through a physical task.