S02.E17: Aruba

[kassygreene]

No time yet for a re-watch, but wasn't the only character/Legend from the aberration timeline that survived Gideon & the Waverider?  The "earlier" Waverider was too damaged, so they made that death run to the other one.

[Maverick]

 I wondered about that too.  The second Waverider should have vanished like Sara.   But they never made it to the the Doomworld Waverider so I'm assuming it did disappear and they had to go back and repair theirs.

[RedVitC]

I've said this before, but I think if they want to do 'we're in the same universe thing' with Legends of Tomorrow and The Flash, the shows have got to communicate with each other, because time travel works really differently on both shows.

-On The Flash time seems very fragile. Even though Barry's mom still died, apparently because the way it happened was different it affected so many people in seemingly completely unrelated areas (Cisco, Caitlin, Diggle etc). Meanwhile on Legends they brought an entire new person into existence and it supposedly had absolutely zero effect on the timeline or anyone on the shows. ?????!! Surely Stein's daughters' daily interactions with people and her being a brilliant scientist should change more things and affect more people's lives than a change in the way Barry's mother died? (On a related not: They were never going to erase Lily(?) after she came into existence, and I'm glad they didn't, but they stepped over that change way too easily in terms of checking whose life could have been affected. But then, they don't usually face consequences for the things they change)

-On the other hand we saw this episode that interacting with former selves causes time quakes on Legends while we've seen that happen on The Flash without time quakes (Barry and all the former selves in his old home. Zoom made time remnants of himself).

Sorry I keep bringing this up btw. I do really enjoy this show, it's a lot of fun (I enjoy both shows, but the Flash is my favorite), but the bigger the contrast becomes in the 2 shows' dealings of time travel the more it bothers me.

On that note, let me talk about some other things from this episode:

-Lots of funny moments. I appreciate how the show manages to keep the tone light, despite what is going on.

-What happened with Tolkien after the team started fighting with each other. Did he run away?

-Sara and Rip have an interesting dynamic. I'm sad Rip left. I wonder if it's just a fake out? I can't imagine that when Rip finds out that time is broken he wouldn't try to find the team again to help. (I guess it depends on actor availability).

-I don't really mind Nate and Amaya, but they should have addressed Amaya being on the mission because of Rex both within that new relationship and in general (at the end).

[TDT]

17 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

They probably didn't have enough money for Arthur Darvill.  Probably why they didn't use Firestorm that much.

Next season will probably take place in a high school gym or something.  Maybe the one the dance sequence from Grease took place in.

I actually had a problem with this season - I have I problem with a bunch of second and third stringers taking on a the combined might of a number of big bads from other shows.  The creators couldn't have cooked up a different set of villains?  Monarch?  Time Trapper?  Glorith?  Chronos?  Some other time based villain?  And if you're going to use the Legion of Doom, use the damn Legion of Doom.  Yeah, you can't use Lex Luthor or the Joker, but there were plenty others they could have used.  Black Manta.  Pied Piper.  Cheetah.  Giganta.  Cupid.  Solomon Grundy.  Sinestro.   Maybe bring back Captain Boomerang and Weather Wizard and Golden Glider.  Or the Royal Flush Gang.

God, the fanboy in me is really awake in me today.

I also took issue with the Waverider smashing into that building.  Too soon, show people.  Too soon.

I dont think they could use Black Manta since he's going to be the main adversary in the Aquaman solo movie..

Sinestro also would be off-limits due to the (still in very early development)Green Lantern Corps film

Same with Capt.Boomerang thanks to Suicide Squad(which IMO wasnt very good )

[KayElektra]

I can't with no Rip. :(

But glad that they are finally not treating Mick like a random piece of shit on the bottom of their shoes.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hopefully they tone down Sarah's special snowflakeness next season. I didn't like that she was the only one strong enough to wield the spear. I thought Amaya should have been, she is just as damaged as Sarah with the loss of Hourman and knowing her destiny, would have been more poignant in my eyes then Sarah still upset over Laurel, although it was good to see Laurel. I did like her solution with spear by depowering it and releasing the Black Flash.

That ending...not as good of a cliff hanger as last years. But the Legends need to hightail it to Central City, find Barry and apologize to him for the crap they gave him during the alien invasion cross over about screwing with the timeline, because the Legends are way worse offenders.

[bmoore4026]

5 hours ago, TDT said:

I dont think they could use Black Manta since he's going to be the main adversary in the Aquaman solo movie..

Sinestro also would be off-limits due to the (still in very early development)Green Lantern Corps film

Same with Capt.Boomerang thanks to Suicide Squad(which IMO wasnt very good )

Goddamn movies!  WE WANT NICE THINGS!!!

[yellowfred]

Finally got caught up, and I have to say that I really enjoyed this episode.  I loved that Sara was the one who used the spear to save everybody, and that it was her fear of abusing it that let her use it well.  Plus, she was the only doomworld!Legend not to get killed, which must have been a delightful change of pace for her.  Her scene with Laurel was nice, too.  I think I'm coming around to the idea that the two of them had a more comfortable relationship with each other than what we saw on Arrow.  Also, Sara needs to have more heart to hearts with herself.  That was definitely a highlight of the episode, for me.

I'm glad Nate and Amaya didn't leave.  I've really enjoyed Amaya this season and, while I know she has to go back to her time eventually, I would have hated losing her after only one season.  I feel like there's a lot more story they can tell with her.  Also, Nate's been growing on me.  It probably helps that it's been a few episodes since he put anyone's life in danger in order to show off and/or get laid.  I will miss Rip, if he's really gone.  I kind of feel like he is, just because that was about as much of a send-off as Kendra got last year, but it does seem anti-climactic, especially after all the work they did to get him back.

So, this has been bugging me:  full disclosure, I have never seen the Goonies, but wasn't the whole "Legends never die" before fading out of existence from the Sandlot?  Like, I distinctly remember that happening in the Sandlot, but I couldn't really say whether or not it happened in the Goonies, too.  

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Doomworld Stein must have been pretty perplexed as he faded away. Along with Doomworld Damien, Malcolm, and everyone else, I suppose.

[Sakura12]

22 minutes ago, yellowfred said:

So, this has been bugging me:  full disclosure, I have never seen the Goonies, but wasn't the whole "Legends never die" before fading out of existence from the Sandlot?  Like, I distinctly remember that happening in the Sandlot, but I couldn't really say whether or not it happened in the Goonies, too.  

When you look that quote up, Sandlot is the movie that pops up first. 

[yellowfred]

4 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

When you look that quote up, Sandlot is the movie that pops up first. 

Thanks.  After doing as exhaustive a search as I could (read: cared to) without actually watching the movie, I think the quote Nate (read: whoever wrote that line) was thinking of was "Goonies never say die."  I don't know the context of that line, but I don't think anyone fades out of existence after saying it.  So, I feel like that confirms my theory that doomworld!Sara was using her last moments in existence to make a Sandlot reference, because she's a nerd, and Nate missed it.  Tragic.

[Sakura12]

Hallucination Babe Ruth said it in Sandlot as he faded away. So Sandlot is the more apt reference. But then they couldn't have Amaya ask want a Sandlot is. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Sakura12

[KirkB]

10 hours ago, Maverick said:

 I wondered about that too.  The second Waverider should have vanished like Sara.   But they never made it to the the Doomworld Waverider so I'm assuming it did disappear and they had to go back and repair theirs.

Okay, I think I can walk us through this.

Maybe.

The Legends arrive in the warzone, get Tolkien, get the blood, Mick gives the Legion the Spear, the Legion uses it to create Doomworld. Doomworld lasts for a year or so before the Legends get their minds back, and use the Waverider to go back to the warzone, where they and their Waverider from earlier are already there. The Waverider that came back the second time is badly damaged, so the Legends try to get to the one that was there the first time, then Sara uses the Spear and the Doomworld Legends, plus their Waverider, cease to exist.

I think.

Edited April 6, 2017 by KirkB

[johntfs]

10 hours ago, RedVitC said:

-I don't really mind Nate and Amaya, but they should have addressed Amaya being on the mission because of Rex both within that new relationship and in general (at the end).

I'm kind of okay with how that shook out.  Figure she felt some closure/satisfaction when the Speed Demon put paid to Thawne and his... Thawnes.  I didn't really need to say her say something like, "Oh, Nate, you can't imagine how super-duper-ooper-pooper pumped I am that we finally avenged my dead former boyfriend Rex who I really loved."  I thought the closure was understood when she didn't want to go back to 1942, at least not yet.  She's done with the past and Rex is part of the past.

The thing most interesting to me about Amaya was the way she really allowed her mind and experience to be expanded by her situation.  Along with differing time periods and cultures she travels with the Legends.  She sees Sara, a lesbian-leaning bisexual woman in the position of authority.  She sees Mick Rory, a murderous thief and arsonist struggling slowly, reluctantly toward becoming a better person.  She meets Nate and realizes that she really doesn't have to stay in the 1942 box she was in.  She can see Martin Stein, an older, patrician white man treating Jax, a younger black man with the respect of an equal.  Even Ray, who's kind of a dork is still a white male dork who treats her with respect.

[DearEvette]

Who woulda thunk that of all the DC shows, Legends has turned out to be my favorite, taking over from the Flash. 

Supergirl just never did it for me.  Stopped watching Arrow after S1, too dark.  Loved the Flash but it is getting mopey and this season I often watch two or three days later.  Watched LOTs Season 1 but thought it was just clunky and the Hawks were a buzzkilland Vandal was not Savage enough to be a good villain,  so I never kept up with it.  But this season has been fantastic.  It has just the right balance of fun, dark, action, humor, a great character balance and Barrowman and McDonough were awesome villains. 

I am in the minority in that I like Nate.  He is a different kind of dork from Ray's dork.  I dig on his pop culture geekiness.  SO I loved the Goonies shout out and Amaya's bewilderment -- again love that they remember she doesn't get a lot of references and Maisie seels her puzzlement so well.

The meeting of their past selves was such fun and so well done! 

But overall I am just pleased that nobody died!!  I like the team dynamics with this group ad think it is close to perfect.  I was soooo bummed (and nervous) about Amaya last week but then everybody got dead and it became funny, almost.  And I don't even mind her romance with Nate as long as they don't over-do the schmoopyness.  I ca dig a nice romance, just don't want it to kill action.

I'll miss Rip, but at least he isn't dead so that leaves the door open for a return visit.

[Gregg247]

This show has gotten so good over the past few months!  This was a satisfying ending, with the bad guys getting defeated and "punished" in their own ways.  I'm glad Reverse-Flash is finally died.  The actor was good at playing him, but it was time for him to finally go away.  I'm also glad that Rip left.  For me, he was the weak link on the show, so I definitely won't miss him.  

I like Nate.  I guess that me a Party of One! haha

The final fight was good, but how did Malcolm bring down both the Atom and Firestorm with arrows?!?!  (For the record, I still don't quite understand Firestorm's powers.  Sometimes, he has amazingly over-powered abilities; other times, he just flies around and throw fireballs at the ground.)

[Delphi]

On 4/5/2017 at 10:59 AM, Starfish35 said:

 

Oddly, KC looked more like her Arrow S1 self than I've seen her look in a long time.  I'm not sure if it was the hair or the makeup or what, but it actually was distracting me a little bit during the scene, trying to figure out what was different.

She definitely did.   I believe it was a combination of her curly hair instead of the straight hair that Laurel was rocking in season 4.  But I think the biggest contributor was the fantastic push up bra that the costumers put Katie in that gave the illusion of her season 1 thickness. 

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Gregg247 said:

The final fight was good, but how did Malcolm bring down both the Atom and Firestorm with arrows?!?!

I think Snart brought down Ray.  As for Firestorm, for all his powers, I don't think he has a lot of overall passive protective ability.  He might be able to actively project something to protect himself from arrows or bullets, but he doesn't have a full-on force field.  So if he gets shot in the chest with an arrow by a master archer, it hurts enough to split him apart.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Wouldn't the numerous Thawnes be as dangerous for the timeline as the Legends interacting with their earlier selves?  Or is it different because the Thawnes hadn't interacted with each other in previous timelines?  Or does the Speed Force just make things work differently for speedsters?

Edited April 9, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Maverick]

 There's probably about 13 different Barry's in the house by no the night Nora gets killed so I think it's safe to assume it's different for Speedsters.  

[TDT]

15 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

That ending...not as good of a cliff hanger as last years. But the Legends need to hightail it to Central City, find Barry and apologize to him for the crap they gave him during the alien invasion cross over about screwing with the timeline, because the Legends are way worse offenders.

I bet this whole breaking time thing will somehow tie into next year's big crossover,and as a result Supergirl's universe will be merged with the rest of the Berlanti shows(as well as possibly the upcoming Black Lightning series)

[ElleMo]

12 hours ago, KirkB said:

The Legends arrive in the warzone, get Tolkien, get the blood, Mick gives the Legion the Spear, the Legion uses it to create Doomworld. Doomworld lasts for a year or so before the Legends get their minds back, and use the Waverider to go back to the warzone, where they and their Waverider from earlier are already there. The Waverider that came back the second time is badly damaged, so the Legends try to get to the one that was there the first time, then Sara uses the Spear and the Doomworld Legends, plus their Waverider, cease to exist.

I think.

 

That is not what I saw.  The Legends who originally went to 1916 to get the blood were in the past Waverider.  Future Mick & co went into the Waverider to steal the Spear and got captured.  Future Jax and Future Sarah got caught by the returning crew and were brought into the Waverider.  Legion attacks the Waverider and they tree to flee. 1916 Sara NOT future Sara took the helm because it was her Wave rider.  It crashes and they get out and attempt to make it to the future Waverider. 

[ketose]

20 hours ago, TDT said:

I dont think they could use Black Manta since he's going to be the main adversary in the Aquaman solo movie..

Sinestro also would be off-limits due to the (still in very early development)Green Lantern Corps film

Same with Capt.Boomerang thanks to Suicide Squad(which IMO wasnt very good )

Yeah, DC should do another Green Lantern. It's not like Ryan Reynolds doesn't use his stint as Hal Jordan for a punch line all the time.

[AudienceofOne]

On 04/04/2017 at 8:13 PM, squidprincess said:

It is rather funny that Rip left because they didn't need him anymore RIGHT before it's revealed that everything went to hell.  So maybe his departure isn't as set in stone as it looked.  But that's probably just denial talking.  Rats.

Funny haha or "funny how the writers have zero self awareness of this plays on screen".

"I'm leaving because you saved reality and are a better Captain than I ever was".

Next scene: Reality is fucked, the Legends suck and Sara is revealed as the worst captain ever.

Seriously, does this production team only know how to write plot based on fixing up your own fuckups? It's like Barry Allen on incompetence acid. 

Yes, by writing this I'm only admitting I managed to choke my way through the whole season. It was better than Season 1 but shit like this proves how flawed it is. And that's not including enduring an entire plotline based on the Spear of Destiny with a whole heap of so-called historians talking about Jesus like he was a real historical figure. This is supposed to be a time travel show. I know it's technically a fantasy genre. But you could at least try to bring some historical accuracy in it somewhere.

[Sakura12]

Sara's a good Captain, she's not a good time traveler, while Rip is a good time traveler, but not a good Captain. That's why I'll never understand people saying Rip should be Captain because of his time travel knowledge. What the hell does that have to do with commanding a team?

Being the most knowledgeable person doesn't mean you know how to lead. Rip should be the advisor or he can be Captain of the Waverider and Sara's Captain of the Legends. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Sakura12

[benteen]

5 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Sara's a good Captain, she's not a good time traveler, while Rip is a good time traveler, but not a good Captain. That's why I'll never understand people saying Rip should be Captian because of his time travel knowledge. What the hell does that have to do with commanding a team?

Being the most knowledgeable person doesn't mean you know how to lead. Rip should be the advisor or he can be Captain of the Waverider and Sara's Captain of the Legends. 

Excellent assessment.

Quote

There was a weird lack of Stein.  I wonder what was going on there.  Was Victor Garber's availability limited for some reason?

Yeah, I found this odd too how he largely disappeared.  I know "Prime Stein" wasn't with the team but still, weird.  Plus, I thought something would happen in regards to his daughter towards the end.

[kismet]

On 4/5/2017 at 2:58 AM, Starfish35 said:

There was a weird lack of Stein.  I wonder what was going on there.  Was Victor Garber's availability limited for some reason?

As Stein is my favorite, I was not happy about it. I think it's because they left him with the Villains in the previous episode, so his double was not there. I guess that logistically explains NO Stein, but I did wonder if there was something else behind the decision. I'm gonna shut down that part of my brain right now. No need to stress over the future just yet about the safety of Stein.

[kismet]

On 4/5/2017 at 11:54 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Every time I see the title of this finale, my mind goes to the Beach Boys' "Back to Kokomo." ?? And now I can't get the song out of my head.

And a truly lone and unpopular opinion-but I don't think Barry going back to be with his parents and was out of some EVUHL and dastardly plan or intentions. I would like it if his name would stop being pulled out and used like a red flag because other things happened that don't go well for the heroes across all shows, but I know that won't happen. Barry seems to be everyone's favorite punching bag. I don't mind sitting at my table for one.

I'll join you on having Kokomo stuck in my head since they dropped this title. That was always one of the my favorite songs, so it's not a bad thing. Then again, it always makes me want to go on vacation, which isn't an option. So that's the frustrating part for me :)

As for the second part, I can't join you. I just think BA has been shown to be making selfish choices. He doesn't have dastardly plans or evil intentions. But it's almost like he can't help himself but make poorly thought out decisions. I do think that writers do not help the situation by having him so easily forgiven or his consequences not be major or all that dire. from an outsider perspective, it seems like BA gets away with a lot of poor decisions and it's other people that suffer as a result. And in comparison to what other Flarrowverse characters get punished for it does seem a little unbalanced. And I think for me, it's been shown he does not learn from his lessons.

Meanwhile, even though the Legends broke time, I think they have been shown over the past 2 seasons to learn from their mistakes. It's just their missions are not always successful. That being said, I don't want to ruin your table, totally understand if you see BA differently. Honestly, I like the guy. I think most of it falls on the bad writers not having the creativity or guts to writer something different for him. They do the same thing with OQ making him dumb for no reason year after year on Arrow. Luckily, the LoT writers seem to be more inclined to not repeat the same plot devices over and over again. Or maybe because it's an ensemble show they can spread it out.

[kismet]

14 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Sara's a good Captain, she's not a good time traveler, while Rip is a good time traveler, but not a good Captain. That's why I'll never understand people saying Rip should be Captain because of his time travel knowledge. What the hell does that have to do with commanding a team?

Being the most knowledgeable person doesn't mean you know how to lead. Rip should be the advisor or he can be Captain of the Waverider and Sara's Captain of the Legends. 

I wonder if some of this confusion comes from the fact that they have the Captain drive the ship through time. It's makes it seem like time travel knowledge is important for a Captain to have. Part of me makes me hope that they change the bridge next season, make the Captain position seem more about the team and less about time.

Honestly, I think the show has handled the transition of Sara to Captain Lance nicely. Why some of the audience struggles with it, will always be a mystery & yet in some ways obvious.

Personally, for me I never understood why people thought that just because Rip was no longer Capt. that he no longer had a role on the ship. Even with Nate the historian on board, there is definitely a role for a time travel specialist. Because history is one thing, time travel is a whole other thing.

[Sakura12]

They've said that Gideon flies the ship through time.  The pilot just kind of keeps the ship steady I guess. The time travel expert is needed when they are actually in the time period. I do think Rip has a place on the team, just not as the Captain/Field Commander. Sara's an action person, she can think of solutions and make decisions quickly. She needs Rip to advise her on not screwing up time with her plans. Because Sara's not thinking about time, she's thinking about how to accomplish/save whatever is happening. She's also a good motivational speaker, which is a nice character trait they gave her on this show. Oliver could really use one of her speeches. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Sakura12

[kismet]

Personally for me, I didn't love this episode. I enjoyed it, but I had more favs earlier in the season. It didn't live up to the personal hype I had set up in my head. There are many moments I loved. Ray's fairytale reunion with this suit. The Legends interacting with DoomLegends. The ultimate resolution of putting the Legioneers back in their time periods and killing Eobard. I will miss Matt Lestcher, but Eobard needed to die. Enjoyed Jax this episode, he had some good lines. The humor was good in this episode, a good blending of camp & cheese - although I could have used more. And I did like seeing the deaths, it was that perfect moment of having your cake and eating it too. Although the heart ripping out was a little too OUAT for me. Here's hoping they got out their need to kill people off via the aberrations.

I did like that they had Sara depower the spear. Didn't need the LL worshiping, although I did like the scene. Amaya had been shown to want to wield the spear for personal reasons. Jax, Mick & Ray were dead. Stein was MIA. Rip already got his hero moment this season And Nate, well it would be boring, plus I think he is still on the chopping block, so no reason to give him a hero moment. Ultimately though in the end, I think it was a nice way to finish SL's arc this season, when she started the season wanting to bring back LL & change time, and then to have the opportunity to do it, but rather put the universe's needs ahead of her own.

I thought the Cliffhanger was weak. To me I prefer more dramatic cliffhangers. Life or death moments. Or highly emotionally charged moments. Otherwise, I would have preferred they actually made it to Aruba. It would have been nice to see them on the beach drinking Umbrella Drinks. 1. They Earned it & 2. It won't be back for over 5 months, so it's not like I'm eagerly awaiting a resolution to the dinosaurs. I would have tuned in either way. It didn't inspire me to tune in. I also think it locks them into a plot line, when I might have preferred them having unlimited options.

Randomly, it did look like Supergirl's city they were falling into, which made me at first think that they had crossed multiverses. However, maybe CGI background sharing will become as rampant as set & location sharing in the Flarrowverse.

Lastly, I think I read the scene between SL & ZombieFlash a little differently. I saw it more as him thanking SL for fixing time and letting him kill Eobard. I do think it put her on his radar. But I didn't read it as a threatening interaction or anything to be worried about.

[Argenta]

All I can bring myself to say right now is: f**k Black Flash. 

[kismet]

37 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

They've said that Gideon flies the ship through time.  The pilot just kind of keeps the ship steady I guess. The time travel expert is needed when they are actually in the time period. I do think Rip has a place on the team, just not as the Captain/Field Commander. Sara's an action person, she can think of solutions and make decisions quickly. She needs Rip to advise her on not screwing up time with her plans. Because Sara's not thinking about time, she's thinking about how to accomplish/save whatever is happening.

But I was talking more about the visual of SL being the one to guide them through time. Sometimes people are more visual. So the ability to time travel & keep the ship steady is perceived as mandatory for a Captain the ship. SL has no experience with time travel besides what we have seen on the screen. Meanwhile, Rip has decades of experience, years of training and a close relationship with the ship. Also at the rate, they have the ship keeps on crashing or breaking down, it seems like SL is not the greatest driver. I'm just saying I wish the bridge was set up differently with SL more as the leader and less the bus driver. Like those moments in Star Trek, when the Capt would say the Catchphrase at the end of the episode and other people would get the ship in motion. Or when the crew would ask the Capt, where to?...

For me SL has been shown to be the better leader of people, so she has earned the Captain title. But I can see how her lack of time travel experience & knowledge can be used against her, since the sole purpose of the team is to travel through time and save it. And I do wonder, if her lack of time travel knowledge will come into play in s3. I can see them setting up an arc for her in s3 about her struggles as Captain of people, but not time. It would be nice character development to watch her grow as a leader, to see beyond just the immediate mission or her team. Where I do think she has been good at the short range management, I do think there is some room for growth as more of a long range mission management. I do think depowering the spear was the start of that journey.

I disagree, the time travel expert is needed to get people through time and leave a small imprint on it. It's more than just history that needs to be protected. It's Gideon or a historian that is needed in the actual time period to keep the history intact. Which is why I think the episodes that use Nate as a historian and not a jock dork worked better, because he showed his value to the team. Gideon knows facts, but Nate can piece together the historical interpretation of the time period. Rip can however keep the team on track to not damage time. He is almost more a chaperone to the team, to keep them from hurting each other or time. He knows the rules of time travel, so his knowledge is vital. But he's a crap leader for this type of team, so it's best that the job go to someone else.

Edited April 8, 2017 by kismet

[lurker22]

28 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

They've said that Gideon flies the ship through time.  The pilot just kind of keeps the ship steady I guess. The time travel expert is needed when they are actually in the time period. I do think Rip has a place on the team, just not as the Captain/Field Commander. Sara's an action person, she can think of solutions and make decisions quickly. She needs Rip to advise her on not screwing up time with her plans. Because Sara's not thinking about time, she's thinking about how to accomplish/save whatever is happening. She's also a good motivational speaker, which is a nice character trait they gave her on this show. Oliver could really use one of her speeches. 

I completely agree. We've seen Ray, Jax and Mick pilot the ship now, Gideon does most of the work anyway. Although we have seen Sara fly the ship all on her own without Gideon at least once.

Rip has been playing the role of Time Advisor since his return. Like that time when Nate said Jesus' blood could destroy the Spear, and Sara's first instinct is to go to the Crucifixion period, and Rip told her no. Rip hasn't been a good Captain in the ways Sara has been (commanding the team's respect, quick on her feet with tactical solutions, inspiring the team which she has been doing since S1 but really highlighted this season), but his knowledge of time makes him a valuable member of the team. That could be his role next season. Plus, he (and Jax) are cheerleaders for Sara when she needed it.

21 minutes ago, kismet said:

Lastly, I think I read the scene between SL & ZombieFlash a little differently. I saw it more as him thanking SL for fixing time and letting him kill Eobard. I do think it put her on his radar. But I didn't read it as a threatening interaction or anything to be worried about.

Well, with a face like Black Flash, I don't think he can not look menacing even if his intentions are all puppies and rainbows, lol. I'm not sure what his intention glaring at Sara was, but it would be really interesting if Sara is really is on his radar now and something comes out of it.

Although I'm a bit confused as to whether Sara knew about Black Flash when she said "about that" when Thawne was going to kill her. It seemed like she knew who Black Flash was, and knew he was coming for Thawne. But I thought she just knew Thawne was being chased by something but not exactly what.

[kismet]

Well perhaps they should just rotate the piloting gig more often.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, lurker22 said:

Well, with a face like Black Flash, I don't think he can not look menacing even if his intentions are all puppies and rainbows, lol. I'm not sure what his intention glaring at Sara was, but it would be really interesting if Sara is really is on his radar now and something comes out of it.

Although I'm a bit confused as to whether Sara knew about Black Flash when she said "about that" when Thawne was going to kill her. It seemed like she knew who Black Flash was, and knew he was coming for Thawne. But I thought she just knew Thawne was being chased by something but not exactly what.

Eobard described Black Flash as "history's greatest monster."  Perhaps it's not that BF is some kind of "Time Police" but that he exists to destroy competition that gets in the way of his designs.  In that spirit I take his roar at Sara to mean "You get a pass.  This time.  You fuck with any of my stuff and I'm coming to erase the lot of you."

Also, Sara was in thr Spear Force.  Changing reality requires knowledge of reality.  Maybe part of that knowledge was what and where/when BR was and the ability to contact and tell it to come get dinner.

[Spaceman Spiff]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 8:25 PM, TDT said:

I bet this whole breaking time thing will somehow tie into next year's big crossover,and as a result Supergirl's universe will be merged with the rest of the Berlanti shows(as well as possibly the upcoming Black Lightning series)

I don't ever see them merging Supergirl with the Arrow/Flash. Too often I think you would be wondering why Barry or Oliver isn't calling on Supergirl or Superman to take out their villain of the week. Plus there would be a ton of aliens all of a sudden running around.

[legaleagle53]

8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I don't ever see them merging Supergirl with the Arrow/Flash. Too often I think you would be wondering why Barry or Oliver isn't calling on Supergirl or Superman to take out their villain of the week. Plus there would be a ton of aliens all of a sudden running around.

True dat.  It was like in the first season of Supergirl, when everyone wondered why Kara almost never mentioned her cousin by name or asked him to help her out whenever she got in over her head.

[MarkHB]

11 hours ago, kismet said:

Randomly, it did look like Supergirl's city they were falling into, which made me at first think that they had crossed multiverses. However, maybe CGI background sharing will become as rampant as set & location sharing in the Flarrowverse.

It was, but in the sense that the National City of Earth-38 is effectively Los Angeles.  I had always thought the Earth-1 LA would be Coast City due to Hal's aerospace industry connections, but apparently not. 

 

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I don't ever see them merging Supergirl with the Arrow/Flash. Too often I think you would be wondering why Barry or Oliver isn't calling on Supergirl or Superman to take out their villain of the week. Plus there would be a ton of aliens all of a sudden running around.

Guggenheim and co. have essentially said the same thing.  It's easier to buy in the comics; when you're reading a book titled The Flash, you don't expect to have Superman come in and solve everything.  But I think TV makes the relationships seem a whole lot more immediate.  I've often felt that some of the situations they've used in Arrow (like Brick taking over the Glades, and the Hong Kong virus outbreak in the flashbacks the same season) would be the kind of thing Superman would automatically show up for and solve in minutes.

Also, and back on topic :), Sara didn't directly free the Black Flash.  He was only imprisoned in the Doomworld reality, so when she stopped that from happening he was just never imprisoned at all.

[Sakura12]

Black Flash said something to Sara whether it was a thank you or a I'm watching you, is something I hope we find out. That scene was there for a reason, since he could've just left after killing Eobard. 

I think the only thing Sara changed was taking away the power from the Spear. Which is the one thing no one would think to do. They all wanted to change things including the other Legends. Even Eobard was impressed that she thought of that. I like that Sara is now on par with the rest of the heroes, the villains know her name. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

On 4/4/2017 at 10:00 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

I hope they eventually follow up on that cake-baking plotline.

They're still waiting to hear back on the cross-over they pitched to Great British Bake Off.

On 4/5/2017 at 8:34 AM, dippydee said:

I can't believe this became my favourite DC show but it's so freaking entertaining. Once I learned to put away any search for logic or reasoning I've really come to appreciate the fun of it all. 

They seem to have found a tone that works for them (after struggling with it in season 1). The other DC shows are struggling with that this year, making the contrast plain, IMHO. 

On 4/5/2017 at 8:54 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And a truly lone and unpopular opinion-but I don't think Barry going back to be with his parents and was out of some EVUHL and dastardly plan or intentions. 

Unfortunately, that's sort of a legacy of the comics story they adapted, where Barry saving his mom had even more dubious connections to even more disastrous changes. I didn't care for it then either.

21 hours ago, kismet said:

I wonder if some of this confusion comes from the fact that they have the Captain drive the ship through time. It's makes it seem like time travel knowledge is important for a Captain to have.

I think the commonality between pilot and leader may be just being able to make decisions and pursue them confidently on short notice and with incomplete information. Sometimes almost any quick decision is better than a delayed optimal decision. Flying anything, much less a time ship, can be like that in some cases.

18 hours ago, johntfs said:

Eobard described Black Flash as "history's greatest monster."  Perhaps it's not that BF is some kind of "Time Police" but that he exists to destroy competition that gets in the way of his designs. 

I think Eobard is being intentionally ironic there. It's something monstrous that appears to work for "History" i.e., the integrity of the timeline. But the way the phrase is usually used, as someone who caused suffering and death of millions, might be applied to Eobard himself.  He does have a bit of a sense of humor, I think.

9 hours ago, MarkHB said:

It was, but in the sense that the National City of Earth-38 is effectively Los Angeles.  I had always thought the Earth-1 LA would be Coast City due to Hal's aerospace industry connections, but apparently not. 

I'm no expert, but I always though Coast City, was a San Francisco analog.  Or maybe Seattle? But of course DC Earth also has an LA and SF and Seattle, I believe. (Just like it has all of Metropolis, Gotham, and New York). In the JLA/Avengers crossover they explained this was because the DC Earth was bigger than Marvel's Earth, and had room for all those extra cities (Metropolis was an empty meadow on Marvel Earth).

[DearEvette]

I hated Eobard Thawne.  So very glad he is dead.  And it appeared to be painful.

I also found myself irrationally worried about the people in that LA skyscraper that the Waverider sheared off. 

Edited April 9, 2017 by DearEvette

[kirinan]

22 hours ago, kismet said:

Lastly, I think I read the scene between SL & ZombieFlash a little differently. I saw it more as him thanking SL for fixing time and letting him kill Eobard. I do think it put her on his radar. But I didn't read it as a threatening interaction or anything to be worried about.

Ha, it's so funny that you said that, Kismet! I turned to my husband and said, "I think that's Speed Force for 'Thank you.'" He didn't disagree. I also didn't see it as him threatening her, but I figured I was alone in that belief.

Edited April 9, 2017 by kirinan

[Sakura12]

He got really close to her face to say to thank you.  I guess along with not being able to speak proper words, ZombieFlash also doesn't know about personal space.

Of course it would be awesome if Sara can call on ZombieFlash for a favor sometime in the future. 

Edited April 9, 2017 by Sakura12

[jhlipton]

It's funny -- both Grimm and LoT killed most of the main characters but didn't, but LoT did it much better!

On 4/4/2017 at 6:04 PM, dippydee said:

Im glad Amaya made it and she's in no hurry to go to 1942. I'll put up with Nate if it means we get to keep Amaya.

Since Nate and Amaya seem to be a package deal (at least for now), I rather have both Nate and Amaya than lose both Nate and Amaya.  Not only because I like Amaya, both character and acting, but because representation matters.

On 4/4/2017 at 6:23 PM, tennisgurl said:

to continue fucking up time while simultaneously saving it. More later.

It's what they do!

On 4/4/2017 at 7:22 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Well done, Legends of Tomorrow.  You have somehow become my favorite CW DC show.  Sure, you may be insane, play extremely loose with the rules, and have moments that make no sense at times, but you do so in such glorious fashion!

That's the main reason I like it!

On 4/6/2017 at 7:05 AM, johntfs said:

The thing most interesting to me about Amaya was the way she really allowed her mind and experience to be expanded by her situation.

All you mentioned, plus the sex!

[Aeryn13]

Bit late to the party here but I really liked it. Doomworld needed to go, otherwise, they could have scrapped their entire DC line-up since all those heroes were dead. And going back in time to the previous episode seemed like the only option left. I think they would have managed without interacting too much with their past selves if Nate hadn`t taken his sweet time talking to Amaya.

Sigh, it`s a romance I can stomach better than last year`s ill-gotten Kendra/Ray but overall I`m still eh on it. And I do like Amaya and, depending on the episode, tolerate Nate.

Depowering the spear was a pretty genius idea. Was happy that Sara was the one to do it. I really love her as the Captain on the show. The character has totally come into her own in that role.

Meanwhile Rip, who I thought was a terrible Captain last year, has been a revelation this Season. Super-competent as a bad guy and his reintegration into the team worked well. I can`t believe this was the last we`ve seen of him. AD probably didn`t want to commit to a full-time gig but I have seen no indication that he dislikes the role and wouldn`t be open to coming back here and there.

As for "breaking time", I think it was an honest mistake. Losing the spear in the first place, I didn`t think it was due to gross incompetence or something so I could live with it. Then destroying Doomworld absolutely was the goal. And the way they handled it here also didn`t strike me as too much gross incompetence. Hence, I can`t blame the Legends too much. They didn`t say "fuck everything" and went about changing the timeline just for them. That`s what differentiates their actions and Barry`s to me, dinosaurs or no dinosaurs.

I was sooo happy that Snart was put back in the timeline and on the proper path. I would have been livid if had wiped out his entire character progression from Season 1. As it is, I`m still unhappy that this is now the last memory the Legends have of him instead of his sacrifice. I do hope somehow we get to see the good version again. Don`t care how, make it happen.

Loved Mick`s running gag with Aruba. I bet this is his series` arc, never getting there. Hee.

All in all, a fantastic Season. Whereas the goofiness in Season 1 often felt silly and trashy, I thought here they embraced it and made it fun and charming. Really liked the Spear plot and the villains were much improved. Cheers to the show.   

[kismet]

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

As for "breaking time", I think it was an honest mistake. Losing the spear in the first place, I didn`t think it was due to gross incompetence or something so I could live with it. Then destroying Doomworld absolutely was the goal. And the way they handled it here also didn`t strike me as too much gross incompetence. Hence, I can`t blame the Legends too much. They didn`t say "fuck everything" and went about changing the timeline just for them. That`s what differentiates their actions and Barry`s to me, dinosaurs or no dinosaurs.

Agree on the BA part. That probably helps explain why a lot of people see BA's actions as selfish or at least his reasoning as personal. Whereas the Legends are doing this job to protect and ensure Humanity on the whole. Their motivations are selfless. And agree on that I didn't see it as gross incompetence either. They had to way the pros & cons of leaving Doomworld in place versus potentially causing some time trouble. They had lost the spear in the previous episode because they had been bested by the Villains not because they had done something stupid or careless. There was really no option but to go back in time. And they tried their best to not interact with their past selves. It was mostly Nate's fault that they got delayed. Someone should have kept him better on task, knowing it might be an emotional moment for him. Then again, he didn't tell a lot of people that Amaya was that special to him.

Also I do believe that (speculation not really spoiler, not sure how sensitive people are here)

Spoiler

Rip leaving the ship may be more responsible for breaking time then the Legends returning to the same timeline spot. I do think he might be inexplicably linked to the ship and unable to be dismissed from duty to leave and find a new life. The time weather twister (not sure exactly what its called) happened after he left, way after they had saved the world. The timing is suspicious to me.

 

 

Quote

Loved Mick`s running gag with Aruba. I bet this is his series` arc, never getting there. Hee.

Yes, I could totally see this as a running gag. I foresee a big umbrella drink scene on an Aruba beach in the series finale. Also bet it will be interrupted by something needing fixing.

Edited April 9, 2017 by kismet

[kirinan]

9 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I was sooo happy that Snart was put back in the timeline and on the proper path. I would have been livid if had wiped out his entire character progression from Season 1. As it is, I`m still unhappy that this is now the last memory the Legends have of him instead of his sacrifice. I do hope somehow we get to see the good version again. Don`t care how, make it happen.

THIS THIS THIS THIS. So much this. Heaven knows they don't seem averse to flouting the rules of time travel in any other case. 

Edited April 9, 2017 by kirinan

[Last Time Lord]

Obligatory. Also, language warning

 

[Featherhat]

On ‎05‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 4:34 PM, dippydee said:

I'm not sure why we should be applauding that Sarah used the Spear's power as minimally as she could. I mean, she could have just as easily saved Laurel, eliminated the Legion and numerous other problems, created a romantic relationship with Nyssa and Oliver, ended world hunger and disease, undone any effects from the time storm, and THEN shut the spear's power off for good.

Ok forgive me since this was a while ago but I was just browsing the thread again. Even if Sara should end all wars/cure cancer etc, why would she create a relationship between Nyssa and Oliver both her exs whom she still really cares about but don't like each other? I apologise if it was meant ironically but within all the other heavy world changing stuff this just struck me as interesting.

If Sara had done all that, she'd have become a worse tyrant than any of the LOD. There's a phrase that came to mind when I watched it about "those who don't think they are worthy/should hold power are the only ones who can" (giant paraphrase) a lot of the other Legends probably would have tried to due so many good things and fucked up the world even more than Dinosaurs in LA 2017 (which wasn't part of the spear but the other stuff but she definitely helped create with some of her decisions).

 She's told Merlyn once before that you don't get to play god to get your own way. He's done it and all he's got to show for it is a dead wife, dead son, a daughter who hates him, one hand, *USE TO BE* RAG (Thanks DD) and a crappy apartment.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Featherhat