S01.E08: Chapter Eight: The Outsiders

[maxineofarc]

22 hours ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

Here's a question for you all:

If we agree that Jughead is taking over as the lead, do you think this is a decision made by the writers?

Or is it because of the chemistry between the actors?

Based on screen time alone, I wouldn't necessarily say he is taking over as the lead (I think they're still hoping for an ensemble), but he does seem to be positioned as the audience surrogate character. I think that was a choice made from the beginning when they decided to have him do the voiceovers. And unfortunately for the rest of the ensemble, Cole Sprouse is by far the most charismatic of the "teen" actors, so it may be that Jughead ends up dominating scenes even where he isn't doing much, just because of his screen presence.

Edited April 1, 2017 by maxineofarc
Those are not teens. Who are they kidding.

[Oscirus]

This show is not an adaptation it's an Elizabeth Cooper fanfic written by a Betty fanboy.  It's getting to be hilarious how inept the writing is.  

Is their gathering at the beginning of the show and expositing stuff we already seen going to be a thing? That needs to not be a thing.

So Jughead is the only boyfriend/husband  required to be at that baby shower. Was that so we could get Archie  jealousy face or was that huge Archie-Jughead confrontation so important that the writers felt they had to neuter Jughead for it?

I'm team Archie in that current argument. Regardless of what stupidity that Archie did once he got to the bar, it wouldn't have even been necessary for him to be there if Jughead would've pulled Archie to the side and told him that his dad was a serpent and he'd asked his dad about it.  But no let Archie put himself in danger. Archie should've done more then call him out. Also nice to see he was more worried about what his girl thought about him as opposed to his "brother." 

Needless father/son scenes, nice!

So this season which has thirteen episodes and is supposed to be concentrating on a murder mystery spends half an episode on a pointless baby shower.  Priorities! Has this show given up on even trying to produce red Herrings or are we supposed to go "hi killer" everytime Hal is on the screen?

Hermonia, if you want to keep your relationship with Fred a secret, maybe don't parade it around town. I have a feeling she's going to blame Veronica even though I'm fairly certain it's Betty's mom.

Archie trying to start shit and getting his ass kicked needs to become a recurring theme just because.

Finally, something positive. Kevin's love of all things Veronica is actually funny.

[truthaboutluv]

41 minutes ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

Here's a question for you all:

If we agree that Jughead is taking over as the lead, do you think this is a decision made by the writers?

Or is it because of the chemistry between the actors?

I agree with another comment about Jughead not taking over as lead. Yes, we are getting a lot of focus on him with the stuff with his dad and his relationship with Betty but I still feel like Archie is clearly the lead. If anyone may be threatening Archie's lead status, it may be Betty since we have all this stuff regarding her family, since her sister is tied to the murdered victim and the mystery of Jason's death is a core part of the series. 

Regarding Jughead's popularity, I just think it's one of those things that happens with many shows. The writers write what they do and sometimes the viewers respond and react exactly as they expected and other times, people just respond more strongly to another character, relationship, etc. And the Jughead and Betty/Jughead love may not be the first thing the writers didn't intend for.

I read somewhere that they admitted in some interview that the Ms. Grundy storyline was supposed to be longer but the response when the Pilot was screened to some people, months before the series premiered, was not positive at all. Apparently no one liked it and that is why the whole thing was done away with so quickly.

[CabotCove]

Quote

I wanna believe so bad that Jughead and Betty are endgame after getting the bathed in light treatment that Oliver/Felicity and Barry/Iris from Arrow and The Flash got.

The light thing is so overrated. I bet they will have Betty & Archie kiss under a light too. Then Archie and Veronica. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by HeroLeague

[TheLastKidPicked]

35 minutes ago, maxineofarc said:

Based on screen time alone, I wouldn't necessarily say he is taking over as the lead (I think they're still hoping for an ensemble)

You could be right about that.  And it takes more talent to write for an ensemble and keep everything balanced.  I hope they are up to the task.

And by the way, Maxineofarc, that is a cool screen name.

 

18 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Regarding Jughead's popularity, I just think it's one of those things that happens with many shows. The writers write what they do and sometimes the viewers respond and react exactly as they expected and other times, people just respond more strongly to another character, relationship, etc

You are on to something there, Truthaboutluv.  Different people will have different reactions to the writing.

18 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Regarding Jughead's popularity, I just think it's one of those things that happens with many shows. The writers write what they do and sometimes the viewers respond and react exactly as they expected and other times, people just respond more strongly to another character, relationship, etc

Edited March 31, 2017 by TheLastKidPicked

[Miss Dee]

They should hang out in the Legends of Tomorrow writing room for a while if they want tips on writing for an ensemble.

[TheLastKidPicked]

Well, since Greg Berlanti writes for both shows. . .

Edited March 31, 2017 by TheLastKidPicked

[tennisgurl]

Of course Riverdale has a biker bar run by a biker gang called The Serpents, that has literal snakes in it. Of course it does.

Damn it Archie, I'm trying to like you, and I usually do, but then you barge into someone else baby shower and start yelling at your BFF about his dad and acting like a dick! Yeah he apologized, and he's trying to look after his dead, but still. Not cool bro. I also wish we had gotten more of Val here. She had like one line! She could have probably gotten Archie to stop doing so much stupid shit if they gave her more screen time!

I cracked up at the Blossoms storming into the shower with that super expensive, old timie baby stroller. This whole show is campy and ridiculous, but the Blossoms are on a completely different level. Also, really Polly? I know your parents are awful, but compared to the Blossoms, they're mom and dad of the year! At least they seem to, in their own, weird ways, care about their kids (even though Mr. Coopers hatred of all things Blossom is high level crazy), while the Blossoms are just crazy and evil. I'm with everyone convinced that Polly is going to wake up surrounding by candles, laying on a pentagram, while the Blossoms chant satanic versus over her. "Nanas got dementia and gypsy blood".

Poor Kevin, looks like his new boyfriend is some kind of biker honey trap. No, I wanted West Side Story, not an episode of The Americans damn it! Well, Biker Guy seems conflicted, so maybe he ends up liking Kevin for real? I can get into that. As long as it gives Kevin something to do beyond being everyone Sassy Gay Friend.

[TheLastKidPicked]

4 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course Riverdale has a biker bar run by a biker gang called The Serpents, that has literal snakes in it. Of course it does

It could be worse, Tennisgurl.  At least we werent shown a gang member named Fangs Fogarty.  Yes, that is one of the names in the comics.  True story.

[tennisgurl]

8 minutes ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

Yes, that is one of the names in the comics.  True story.

Oh my God, I need to pick up every copy of Archie comics ever. That's just...amazing.

[maxineofarc]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I cracked up at the Blossoms storming into the shower with that super expensive, old timie baby stroller. This whole show is campy and ridiculous, but the Blossoms are on a completely different level. Also, really Polly? I know your parents are awful, but compared to the Blossoms, they're mom and dad of the year! At least they seem to, in their own, weird ways, care about their kids (even though Mr. Coopers hatred of all things Blossom is high level crazy), while the Blossoms are just crazy and evil. I'm with everyone convinced that Polly is going to wake up surrounding by candles, laying on a pentagram, while the Blossoms chant satanic versus over her. "Nanas got dementia and gypsy blood".

Poor Kevin, looks like his new boyfriend is some kind of biker honey trap. No, I wanted West Side Story, not an episode of The Americans damn it! Well, Biker Guy seems conflicted, so maybe he ends up liking Kevin for real? I can get into that. As long as it gives Kevin something to do beyond being everyone Sassy Gay Friend.

I maintain it would have been better to see some development of the relationship up until this point so I know if I'm supposed to care. The last time we saw Joaquin was a quick makeout behind the snack shed and Kevin giving him his number! How did FP even get involved in that? Joaquin must have told him about it, which makes the Serpents an awfully progressive biker gang.

The Blossoms are straight out of V.C. Andrews and I love it.

Edited March 31, 2017 by maxineofarc

[zumpie]

Upon rewatch, Archie (and Fred) are annoying me even more.  When they went to the Serpent's bar, Archie tells Moose if they see the people who attacked him, they should leave and call Sheriff Keller.  But the minute Moose says he might recognize someone, Archie strolls up to the guy and straight up accuses him.  Dude, simmer the eff down.

Then,when Fred shows up he just assumes FP is behind the whole mess his company is in.  Both Fred and Archie like to throw the "after all I've done for you" in people's faces, don't they?  

And is precisely why I can't stand either of them. And how neither of them can act their way out of a paper bag!

BTW, other than running drugs and wanting to keep tabs on Roscoe (who, LBR, is probably balls deep into the actual murder, cause he's hella shady)--I thought FP was pretty cool. I'm just not getting how a broken down alcoholic is able to bring that much Don Corleone level control into everything else.

LOVED that he called Archie's daddy on him!

[dippydee]

1 hour ago, Chick2Chic said:

found this episode to be slow and rather boring. The pacing was off - I thought it was also off in episode 7.  The first 6 eps I enjoyed but I feel like this show isn't sure how to juggle it's [large] cast well so some stories and characters

I found this too. Parts of this episode really dragged for me. I think it's because I'm just not as interested in the Andrews and their lives as much as I am the Coopers, the Blossoms and the Lodges. The parts with Archie and Fred seemed to stall the episode for me. I could do with a little focus on other people. 

 

Speaking of people I'd like to see more of I'm going to need Veronica to get a good story soon. Im surprised at how much she seems to have been relegated to a supporting player role the last couple of episodes. Veronica Lodge is not a background person, don't you know she got invited to the Vanity Fair and Elton John Oscar parties on the same night (though I'm not sure which other nights their Oscar parties would have been on).

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course Riverdale has a biker bar run by a biker gang called The Serpents, that has literal snakes in it. Of course it does.

Well they wouldn't want people to confuse them with some other gang's biker bar. Also lol!  at Archie going to the bar in his letter jacket. Fred's business must be doing really badly if he can't even afford another coat for Archie. 

[zumpie]

Here's a question for you all:

If we agree that Jughead is taking over as the lead, do you think this is a decision made by the writers?

Or is it because of the chemistry between the actors?

I'm staying with my theory of (cause remember there was a six month lapse between shooting the pilot and shooting the subsequent episodes:

KJ is hired because, aside from his hair color, he's perfect casting

The pilot shows KJ's acting is soooo bad, he even pulls down Lili (a decent actor and writers' pet) with him

In his brief screen time, Cole kills it

RAS walks past Cole and Lili making out/making heart eyes at each other

Show is immediately retooled into this, but implemented incremetally

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Riverdale Brings The Blossoms And The Coopers Together For The Baby

Ain't no baby shower like a Riverdale baby shower, because a Riverdale baby shower has Victorian-looking prams and everybody hates each other.

[TheLastKidPicked]

1 hour ago, zumpie said:

In his brief screen time, Cole kills it

He is great as Jughead, and you all are probably more in the know than I am, but did you hear why Cole wanted to play Jug instead of Archie?

Because Jughead is the narrator so he couldn't be killed off.

For some reason, that sounds exaclty the logic that Jughead would use when making decisions!

Edited March 31, 2017 by TheLastKidPicked

[TheLastKidPicked]

1 minute ago, Sonoma said:

And while Archie is the "lead", I think they were clever to call the show "Riverdale" instead of "Archie".

Very insightful post, Sonoma.

[Free]

5 hours ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

Here's a question for you all:

If we agree that Jughead is taking over as the lead, do you think this is a decision made by the writers?

Or is it because of the chemistry between the actors?

I wouldn't say taking over, more like Archie himself feels phased out while everyone else has something going for them.  He's too detached from the main plots and it's even more apparent once the Grundy subplot ended.

Quote

Archie is supposed to die in this, right? Because let's be real, EVERYONE is here for Jughead.

Well let's put it this way, if Archie suddenly disappeared, would anything actually change on this show?  He's like the even more irrelevant version of Dawson Leary.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Free

[jay741982]

5 hours ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

Here's a question for you all:

If we agree that Jughead is taking over as the lead, do you think this is a decision made by the writers?

Or is it because of the chemistry between the actors?

Maybe it's the chemistry I hope it is lol Bughead have more chemistry than Barchie but then Beronica have more chemistry as well

[PeekaBoo]

Mwahah ginger judas.... so freaking funny....

Like the episode but man they gotta make archie less of a douche. Please give him something to work with besides the nasty stares...

I am finding myself more and more intrigued by the parents backstories than the kids. How were they related to one another when in high school. Would love to see a flashback  episode. 

Finding myself loving the cooper girls. Despite alice being crazzyyyy, i thought i saw vulnerability and it suits her. 

I hope Joaquin is going to have a change of heart and decise to be with kevin cuz ye likes him. They are so swoon.

And bughead. Gah. What a sweet couple. Havent shipped  a couple this much since veronica and logan on veronica  mars. Utter swoon. They just have to be end game. If they would break up, I'm wondering if it would have anything to do with FP. Please leave them alone... 

And shout out to luke perry. Got a déjà vu feeling when he showed up by papa blossoms car ... so Dylan McKay-ish heheh... 

[talktalk]

It simply does not make any sense! Why would Polly go live with the evil blossoms now that her own mother and sister are fully behind her? The writers are so irrational. 

She obviously is going to die in that eerie house. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, I'm not sure what they're trying to do with Archie. He's supposed to be the lead, but he's certainly acting more like a douche than a lead is supposed to. I do think Jughead could have warned Archie a little more, but I get why he kept quiet. 

Heh, Polly's baby bump kept changing sizes throughout the episode. The beginning scene had no bump at all (and no, show, having her in a loose fitting dress doesn't mean that the baby bump's just hiding), but most of the episode had them actually putting a baby bump on her.

I really used to think that Cheryl was just a complex character and that's why her character's been all over the place. Now, I think it's just poor writing, as if they don't know whether they want Cheryl to be an antagonist or a part of the gang.

Cole really does have more chemistry than all of the other guys combined. I also don't believe that Jughead is the lead, but I do think they recognize that he's a more important character than they probably planned out, and they probably figured out how popular he'd be (depending on when they filmed this episode in comparison to when the show started airing). Now, I still expect Jughead and Betty to break up, but I do think that they're actually an option to be an endgame couple once they start planning out season 2. It would be a mistake if they dropped Bughead for Barchie.

Also, I'm totally cool with Betty saying that she trusts Jughead, rather than she believes JP. 

I do think Betty probably could surpass Archie as the official lead. I like that they called the show Riverdale, so they can have that lenience. 

Until we find out otherwise, I'm going to assume Polly's main goal with moving into the Blossoms is to find out what happened to Jason. I think her priority is not only the baby, but finding Jason's killer, and what better way than to be in the place where Jason lived? Plus, I think she knows that the Blossoms won't do anything to harm her until the baby's born. She's definitely naive, but not stupid from what I've seen. 

The one good thing about Archie is that he has a close enough relationship with his dad to stand up for him and be by his side multiple times this episode. Hell, he got all the main and recurring guys to help out with construction.

So, I started out really hating Alice, but now I think she's complex but in a good way. I am very intrigued with her character. Plus, Daddy Cooper is a douche. I figured, since Lochlyn Munro usually plays douchebags.

Damnit; I've been a huge fan of Cole Sprouse since his Suite Life days. But seeing him in that white tank with his muscled arms? Whew, I am glad that I'm only a little bit younger than him.

[jay741982]

5 hours ago, HeroLeague said:

The light thing is so overrated. I bet they will have Betty & Archie kiss under a light too. Then Archie and Veronica. 

Possibly lol though it would be stupid if that happens. Archie doesn't deserve either of those girls personally he's too goddamm fickle. I only mention the light thing cause it seems to be a Berlanti staple and not every couple gets that 

[scorp01]

8 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

I also initially did a O_o at Archie wearing his letter jacket to a biker bar, but then I figured that Archie always wears his letter jacket and literally wouldn't think not to.

I suppose if Archie can wear his stupid letterman's jacket to Jason's memorial service, he'd wear it to a damn biker bar too.  Although since the group was trying to be sort of stealth about it, not wearing a bright yellow and blue jacket would have been a better choice.

Did anyone notice when Mustang (the guy who was going to punch Archie before FP stepped in) said something along the lines of, "This isn't the first time one of you Bulldogs came around here to cause trouble."  I wonder who he was referring to?  Jason?  He's another one who would probably wear his letter jacket to the biker bar, lol.

[feverfew]

I get Riverdale a day later* than you guys do in the States, so most of what I wanted to say has already been said. While I liked parts of the episode, it did feel like it was dragging its heels a bit in the beginning with the baby shower thing. And I haven't yet found myself interested in Fred Andrew's economic sorrows - although I do like the Andrews' father-son relationship. It's just a pity Archie still bounce between clueless, likable doofus and jerkface. I do have some sympathy for his situation, but boy, could he have confronted Jughead in a more sensitive way. I'm not fond of those unscrutable faces he makes whenever Betty/Jughead is mentioned, either, but that's more on the writers.

I miss our sleuthing duo, although we got some in the end. I'm still bummed out they boarded the Betty/Jughead train so fast - I would have liked at slow simmering build-up to stamp out my fears that TPTB will pivot to Betty/Archie any second now. I might have died a little at that kiss, though.

But shipper preferences aside, Betty and Jughead plays so well off each other, it makes me want to go back and see what they're doing, whenever we cut to some of the other characters. Which perhaps is not so good, if you have an ensemble show. I missed Veronica being part of the action this week, I want to know more about Joaquin and Kevin (hopefully we'll get that in the coming weeks, since Joaquin is part of whatever shady thing FP has going on), and where's Josie? Hopefully with Polly installed with the Blossoms, we'll get more Crimson Peak out of Thornhill.

 

*The CW has made a deal for some of its shows to air on Netflix close to their airing dates in the US. For Riverdale to air the day after (and not a week later like Legends of Tomorrow) is a good sign, I think, of its potential popularity. If Netflix liked it enough to buy it that way, we'll hopefully get several seasons, despite so-so ratings.

[ahpny]

I know Riverdale and Big Love seem to share little in common, but I couldn't avoid seeing "Nikki Grant" in "Betty," especially when "Betty" wears her hair down. It's not just that the two actresses look similar (to me at least), but the sadness Betty projects so much of the time looks to me a lot like NIkki's made-in-the-Compound angst. Also, the screwed up upbringing and siblings, and even more screwed up parents, and the continual feuding families presents other common themes.

[catrice2]

Has it been medically confirmed that she is pregnant?

[millk]

Are night time baby showers a thing? I see them as more of a Sunday afternoon deal.

Twin geek soapbox time. Polly may very well have boy/girl twins in there like granny predicts but Jason being a twin has nothing to do with that. The mother's body determines  how many eggs are released. Cheryl could have genetically determined twins but not anyone Jason gets pregnant. (your miles may vary but that's the current science.)

Edited April 1, 2017 by millk
Horrible spelling and autocorrect

[Snookums]

Quote

Okay! Well! So Kevin and Joaquin are dating to the point where Kevin's friends are cool knowing he's going out with a Serpent? I certainly am glad that was dispensed with in a couple of lines of dialogue instead of giving Kevin any kind of storyline.

Don't be silly--gay characters are there to be arm candy, mouth 'love your boots' to grown women, and act twitchy in biker bars! The actor playing Kevin is KILLING it with the little he's being given, but this was yet another "feels like at least one scene got deleted  for time" thing--he went from secret makeouts to everybody in his group knowing he's dating a Baby Serpent with nothing in between! Having a gay character isn't enough, guys--you've got to allow them to do something. (And why is Jughead's dad being a Serpent such a big deal but dating one isn't?)

I know the consensus is Polly Be Crazy for heading over to Dark Blossom Manor but--that scene with Alice and Hal? Has convinced me she's not. Because that guy was absolutely freaking terrifying. How his face never, ever moved, or even twitched--he remained "blandly boyish and totally unassuming" while Alice confronted him about not only setting up an abortion for Polly without telling her but APPARENTLY HE DID THE SAME TO HER!*

 Between that and the bottomless venom of his line about "not raising a child with Blossom Blood," adding in being sent to some convent that apparently does no prenatal care for its inmates, I really cannot blame Polly for thinking that she might be able to handle another version of peril--maybe she's planning to hold the baby (babies) over the Blossoms' collective heads in a way she can't at home. Not that it's going to work, but between that and Daddy Dearest I really don't think it's that nuts.

Okay, so we've seen two examples of crimes being committed--the breaking into the sheriff's office and the burning of the getaway car--and that two fathers have profited by those crimes--Hal with the Murder Board files and Juggie's dad with Jason's letter jacket. But we haven't seen them actually committing said crimes, unlike Hermione committing forgery and bribery and Josie's mom receiving the bribe. The moms are directly involved in stuff, the fathers are more questionable. 

* I really, really cannot stress enough how deeply and horribly disquieting Hal was there. How while Alice is just throwing what was apparently something really horrifically bad in his face, her rage, her pain, and her fear--and nothing. Just as blank and bland and uncaring as when he was watching the ball game. This is a man who has killed people and hidden their bodies.

[dippydee]

1 hour ago, Snookums said:

Just as blank and bland and uncaring as when he was watching the ball game. This is a man who has killed people and hidden their bodies

Given Alice's line about Hal knowing exactly what she's capable of I'd say he's not the only Cooper who has. Of course this means neither of them killed Jason because I'm assuming that'd be too obvious. 

[AdorkableSars]

On 3/30/2017 at 8:00 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

All of these parents are terrible. Except for Fred, Harmione, and Kevin's dad. And Alice did right by Polly tonight, but god. 

Alice was great in this episode. I've always enjoyed her evil ways, because it makes for good DRAMA, but this is the first time I've felt sympathy towards her, and really felt her love for her daughters (specifically Polly). However this episode threw Hal and FP further into scary douche territory. 

On 3/30/2017 at 8:29 PM, SeanC said:

"Nana has dementia, and Gypsy blood."

This line and Madelaine's delivery of it legit made me LOL. 

On 3/30/2017 at 8:33 PM, jay741982 said:

First of all Polly is a moron. DONT TRUST THE BLOSSOMS!! 

On the Bughead/Jetty/Betthead front they are so adorable and the light bathing them when kissing after talking to FP reminded me this is a Greg Berlanti creation and Olicity and Westallen were bathed with light Dammit I have hope they are the OTP/Endgame. And lastly FUCK YOU Jaquin for what you are doing to Kevin!! 

Seriously Polly...what in the actual hell? Your mom kicked your unsupportive father out for you...your angel/sister/godmother to your child and mother (who actually seems to care about what you want now) want you to come home, and you go with the Blossoms? Credit to the actors playing the Blossom parents, because they are creepy and offputting as f*ck. I don't know what Polly is thinking. Interested/terrified to see how it turns out though!

On 3/30/2017 at 8:40 PM, angora said:

Betty and Jughead are still wonderful together - I liked them joking with each other at the baby shower, and that kiss at the trailer park was beautiful.  Interesting that Betty didn't actually say whether she believed FP.  I'm not psyched about a probably-inevitable break-up on any front, but at least a major difference of opinion on the investigation/family drama would be a preferable route to love triangle issues rearing their ugly head (Archie can keep his jealous looks to himself.)  They could possibly go down that road.

So Joaquin is using Kevin to get to Sheriff Keller, ouch.  I wish we'd gotten to see more of their South Side Story romance before that reveal, but it looks like Joaquin is feeling conflicted, so not all hope is lost yet.

Betty and Jughead are the sweetest. The way they support each other is so great. Am I crazy naive to think that maybe they will let Betty and Jughead be happy and remain a couple/endgame? High school relationships (especially those built on a strong friendship) can be built to last forever, and I think Betty and Jughead have the foundation for that. Just because the triangle was a staple of Archie comics, does not mean that it has to be here...let's face it, this show is not like the classic Archie comics. And I mean that in a good way! So there's really no need to visit a Betty/Archie romance ever. Then again, this is the CW, where every hot teen must horn down for every other hot teen at some point, and triangles are so SEXY and DRAMATIC. So I am sadly already preparing myself for the end of Betty/Jughead, even though they are one of my favorite couples on TV. (I'm even reading Bughead fanfiction....should a person over the age of 30 really be doing that, ever? Please don't answer that...) And that kiss after they visited FP? So, so great!

15 hours ago, scorp01 said:

Is Archie deliberately being this way because he's jealous of Jughead being with Betty?  Because we keep seeing all these looks that Archie throws them every time someone mentions the two of them and their togetherness.  I'm wondering if some part of it is to cast a negative light on Jughead in Betty's eyes.  Whatever the case, cut it out Ginger Judas.  I like Jughead and Betty's relationship and don't want to see drama for the sake of drama or THE love triangle (A/B/V) since it doesn't make sense in this iteration of Riverdale.  The triangle was mildly explored in the pilot episode and that's all I need to see of it.

I'm also very interested to see what's going on with FP.  He cleans up nice (if you consider 'cleaning up' to be sober and throw on his Serpent jacket, which I guess I do, rawrrr).  Juggie looks good too, for that matter.  Hello, tank top!

YES. These Archie looks over Betty and Jughead being together is very annoying. And like you eloquently stated, there is NO need for the triangle in this series. Also, poor Valerie! Girl deserves better than Archie and his looks at Betty/Jughead.

And yes to FP looking good. (AND Jughead. Cole Sprouse has a pretty great bod. Who'd a thunk?) Rawrrr, indeed...

14 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

The problem is, going back to the original triangle that is Betty/Archie/Veronica doesn't make sense right now. And the show doesn't have to. I understand that the source material has that triangle but the show can be a different thing, so if the show goes back to that triangle it doesn't name sense in the context of this show. Veronica hasn't shown any romantic interest in Archie really since episode 2. But then again Veronica has hardly gotten any sort of a story, she seems mostly there to prep up other people's stories.
 

Once again, just quoting this to showcase that there is no need for the triangle! People are just putting it into words better than me, so thanks for that! Also i do think that we need a Veronica story. Maybe with her dad making Hermione "pay" for her romance with Fred, it will bring up more for Veronica.

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course Riverdale has a biker bar run by a biker gang called The Serpents, that has literal snakes in it. Of course it does.

Almost spit precious wine on my laptop reading this. Thanks for the laugh!

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Damnit; I've been a huge fan of Cole Sprouse since his Suite Life days. But seeing him in that white tank with his muscled arms? Whew, I am glad that I'm only a little bit younger than him.

I am older than him...by more than a little bit (like 7 years) :( But I have been fangirling (or fanwomaning? Because I'm old?) hard for him since Riverdale began. I actually did watch the Suite Life sometimes, and he and Dylan were pretty funny. And of course he was adorable on Friends. But since this show began, I have been reading/watching more interviews with him and combed through his Twitter and Instagram. He is so funny, intelligent, eloquent, and talented, and just seems like a well-adjusted down-to-earth guy. (And very handsome...indeed.) Glad fame hasn't seemed to negatively affect him or his brother (who is also a gem on social media).

Poor Jughead. He's so hopeful that his dad is trying to turn things around. FP did seem kind of remorseful when he was talking to Joaquin about how they're all making sacrifices, but if he really cared about Jughead, I don't think he would be doing all of this. This just makes me feel awful for Juggie and Fred.

I liked how after Archie stopped being a prick, he and Jughead had that heart-to-heart where he told Jughead that he was like a brother to him. And Juggie returned the sentiment, saying he would do whatever he could to help Archie/Fred. Their bromance is really sweet when Archie isn't being a dick. And I'm glad that Jughead has a positive figure like Fred in his life. 

Once last thought - I love Kevin. I want him to be my best friend, and I want Joaquin to turn on the serpents and just love Kevin, and help bring the serpents down. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by AdorkableSars

[Dee]

1 hour ago, AdorkableSars said:

And yes to FP looking good.

FP looks like a filthy chinchilla. And it's so hot.

[Bill1978]

14 hours ago, zumpie said:

The pilot shows KJ's acting is soooo bad, he even pulls down Lili (a decent actor and writers' pet) with him

At least he still gets to speak, I'm still waiting for Jason to say something, anything in his flashbacks. Surely his acting cannot be any worse than some of the line deliveries on this show? I am convinced more and more each episode that it is an inside joke that Jason is not allowed to speak. I also didn't think it was possible to have a worse red hair dye than Archie's in the pilot, but the show proved me wrong with Jason's job this week.

Did I hear correctly? Did Poppa Cooper force Momma Cooper to have an 'appointment' early on in their relationship?

This is the first episode where I didn't pay full attention on first watching. My mind wandered and I didn't' care. This is not a good sign, for when they wrap up the mystery of Jason's death. The only time I was fully invested was when Bughead were questioning FP about Jason. This show needs to stick with the murder plot as the main focus, while they iron out all the other teething problems they seem to have.

While watching Hermoine and Alice have their little chat, I started to formulate a theory that the parents on this show are the grown up version of the actual comic book characters. And if they ever flashbacked to their high school days, we would get the Archie characters that inspired this series. I think the show though is tackling too much at the moment. They seem to want to spend equal time with the parents and the teenagers. I think they really should focus on the kids for the first season but I am guessing to get these big names for the parents, you have to offer them something worth their time and money. 

I think I still want to see Kevin and Moose hook up. Kevin was the one tending to Moose when he was beat up, and Kevin was the one who went to the bar to support Moose.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Bill1978

[PeekaBoo]

5 hours ago, AdorkableSars said:

Betty and Jughead are the sweetest. The way they support each other is so great. Am I crazy naive to think that maybe they will let Betty and Jughead be happy and remain a couple/endgame? High school relationships (especially those built on a strong friendship) can be built to last forever, and I think Betty and Jughead have the foundation for that. Just because the triangle was a staple of Archie comics, does not mean that it has to be here...let's face it, this show is not like the classic Archie comics. And I mean that in a good way! So there's really no need to visit a Betty/Archie romance ever. Then again, this is the CW, where every hot teen must horn down for every other hot teen at some point, and triangles are so SEXY and DRAMATIC. So I am sadly already preparing myself for the end of Betty/Jughead, even though they are one of my favorite couples on TV. (I'm even reading Bughead fanfiction....should a person over the age of 30 really be doing that, ever? Please don't answer that...) And that kiss after they visited FP? So, so great!

Just to alleviate your pain, you're not the only 30+ person with the same "problems" lol :-S :-S... I love and hate fanfics right now, I really do...

 I was actually surprised I could get hooked on teen dramas again lol... I blame this on Luke Perry and Skeet Ulrich(how can that not be good!!!)...  But I really like the mystery around the whole show where everyone seems to be a potential murderer and everyone's hiding secrets...

What I find weird is how FP can come out as boozed out drunk one day and then be a smart ass leader of a biker gang, I mean, what gives... He's so interesting, he comes off as a bad guy (of course he is) but still shows some loyalty to Fred (I think) I am so afraid he'll do something that will tear apart bughead, jughead seems loyal to him still... Despite everything... (sighs "kids...).

WIth all the discord seemingly developing between Fred and archie and fred and his company, I wonder if Fred will explode and do something even worse... He's got it in him I think... A show down between him and Hiram, ohhh, that would be great!!

I actually didn't who Jughead was until they actually called his name (didn't follow all the previews before the show started). And I knew even less who the actor was, so imagine my surprise when it turned out to be one of the little twins (well, not so young anymore of course)... Yeah... Still thought that kids show of theirs was still are.... hahhhaha... He's a cutie pie!

ON an end note, I do hope Ginger Judas (the name is sticking with me!! ) does something big (bad or good) just to get him more air time and character development... Well, seems like he's floating everywhere and not finding his place...

[zumpie]

2 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

At least he still gets to speak, I'm still waiting for Jason to say something, anything in his flashbacks. Surely his acting cannot be any worse than some of the line deliveries on this show? I am convinced more and more each episode that it is an inside joke that Jason is not allowed to speak. I also didn't think it was possible to have a worse red hair dye than Archie's in the pilot, but the show proved me wrong with Jason's job this week.

My take is that he's meant to be ghostly, even in FB---so I very much doubt (unless it's in a vision to reveal his killer), that we'll hear Jason speak....

 

2 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

This is the first episode where I didn't pay full attention on first watching. My mind wandered and I didn't' care. This is not a good sign, for when they wrap up the mystery of Jason's death. The only time I was fully invested was when Bughead were questioning FP about Jason. This show needs to stick with the murder plot as the main focus, while they iron out all the other teething problems they seem to have.

I really like the show and particularly Bughead as a romantic pairing as well---and even liked some of the other stuff (like FP showing his Don Corleone side)....but there's no question the sleuthing/murder mystery is the best part. Pretty much the general consensus, TBH....That and the nostalgia, anachronistic elements (like Low Tech Fred's two and half decade old office equipment and phones)

[MarkHB]

On 3/30/2017 at 11:15 PM, dippydee said:

I'm torn between wanting this and wanting the parent actors play the high school versions of themselves. I can only imagine how much fun Madchen Amick and Luke Perry would be playing teens. 

I know no TV show has the budget to really Rogue One these things, but Dylan McCay hooking up with Shelly the waitress?  Turn up the volume and pass me the cherry pie!

 

On 3/31/2017 at 11:13 AM, WhosThatGirl said:

Veronica hasn't shown any romantic interest in Archie really since episode 2. But then again Veronica has hardly gotten any sort of a story, she seems mostly there to prep up other people's stories.

I agree on Ronnie needing more of a story, especially since Camila is killing it... but so far as the romance angle goes, it's high school.  Things can be mercurial.

[maxineofarc]

7 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

Did I hear correctly? Did Poppa Cooper force Momma Cooper to have an 'appointment' early on in their relationship?

That's what it sounded like. First, I don't think you can actually force your girlfriend/wife to have an abortion (excuse me, an "appointment," and speaking of, maybe Polly should see an OB at this point?) she doesn't want, and second, how/why did she stay with him after that?! And third, why did he do that? Surely it wasn't another contamination-by-Blossom situation.

[Cookie1981]

I had to watch twice because every time Archie is the focus of a scene I start scrolling through my FB feed and lose track of the plot. KJ isn't a bad actor but there is something that doesn't quite fit with his acting/characterization with the noir vibe they are going for with everyone else. Betty and even Jughead are naive (I had to laugh at the SHOCK that a dangerous biker gang might sell drugs) but the way the actors portray them sells it better than Archie's brand of naïveté.

I love Jughead and think Cole is doing a good job but he has an acting tic of always looking like he is suppressing a smile during various serious moments that takes me out of the scene. I am embarrassingly, fully aboard the SS Bughead ship but agree with other posters re: wishing they had waited and drawn out the chemistry and fast tracking to bf/gf. Maybe after Archie confronted Jughead about FP being a Serpent in front of a baby shower like a total dweeb, Betty could have confronted him about keeping it from her after they had been getting so close and that would have been a good time for him to plant one on her. I am wondering if they are going to be moving beyond the chaste kisses bathed in light. They both come off as inexperienced in the love department so it will be interesting to see how that aspect develops, especially with Betty's sister being an expecting teen.  

Veronica needs a storyline that lasts longer than an episode, they are wasting a great actress on one liners and quips and supporting her new BFF Betty (which are all good things but she is obviously meant for more). The Vanity Flair flub cracked me up.

The adult storylines and dynamics are infinitely more interesting than what they are giving the teens, minus the sleuthing duo. Alice Cooper is killing me, Madchen must have so much fun spitting out those lines. I was confused as to whether or not she followed through on the appointment her husband made for her when they were teens or if Polly is the result of that pregnancy. Or maybe down the line we'll get to meet the baby she had while in the care of the same nuns that had Polly captive. There was a lot left unsaid or alluded to during the Coopers fight that contradicts the picture perfect, Stepford existence that Jughead talked about in his narration at the beginning of the episode. 

I am definitely interested to see how all of these lines are going to intersect and tie together by the final episode.

[starri]

I want to like Kevin, and have them not lean into the stereotype quite so much.

However, watching him look at Hermione and mouth "I love your shoes!" equally amused and horrified me.

[Miss Dee]

You know, it hit me in this episode that they were smart to go the multi generational route with this show. Some of us are here for the teens; some for the adults; some for both. And for some, we came for one generation but are finding ourselves interested in the other. It's a great way of growing an audience.

Loved the idea expressed up thread that the "classic comic" Archie relationships are being expressed in the older generation rather than in the new. I like the idea that the dysfunctional aspects of the comics (eg B/A/V triangle) are precisely what has screwed up the adults. 

[PeekaBoo]

1 hour ago, Miss Dee said:

You know, it hit me in this episode that they were smart to go the multi generational route with this show. Some of us are here for the teens; some for the adults; some for both. And for some, we came for one generation but are finding ourselves interested in the other. It's a great way of growing an audience.

Loved the idea expressed up thread that the "classic comic" Archie relationships are being expressed in the older generation rather than in the new. I like the idea that the dysfunctional aspects of the comics (eg B/A/V triangle) are precisely what has screwed up the adults. 

I know!! I cant imagine how better its going to be when Archie's mom shows up... What drama!!'

[tracyhmcd]

Re:. Vanity Flair.... I don't know if it was a slip or what that magazine is called in this universe. A few eps back, Veronica had an American Excess card. 

[zumpie]

37 minutes ago, tracyhmcd said:

Re:. Vanity Flair.... I don't know if it was a slip or what that magazine is called in this universe. A few eps back, Veronica had an American Excess card. 

Didn't she shop on "Glamazon"???

[Dobian]

23 hours ago, ahpny said:

I know Riverdale and Big Love seem to share little in common, but I couldn't avoid seeing "Nikki Grant" in "Betty," especially when "Betty" wears her hair down. It's not just that the two actresses look similar (to me at least), but the sadness Betty projects so much of the time looks to me a lot like NIkki's made-in-the-Compound angst. Also, the screwed up upbringing and siblings, and even more screwed up parents, and the continual feuding families presents other common themes.

She does have some Chloe Sevigny in her.  Nicki was such a shchemng little scamp on Big Love though, she could have fit into any soap.

I'm going to finish this season out because I like the kid characters, but I think it will be one and done for me.  This show started out with the iconic characters in a nice twist with some Twin Peaks and Dawson's Creek, but now it's Dallas and Knot's Landing and Desperate Housewives and every other soap cliche I can think of.  Just a poisonous pit of nasty scheming parents and others in a lot of shallow melodrama.  I don't care where Polly has her baby.  Maybe someone from another comic can adopt it.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Dobian

[Locutus]

I'm hoping The Blossoms are Devil-Dealers and through them we get Sabrina, and possibly her Aunts. I would absolutely love the casting gods giving us Caroline Rhea and Beth Broderick.....but please no MJH.

[dwmckim]

On 3/31/2017 at 10:47 AM, HeroLeague said:

The light thing is so overrated. I bet they will have Betty & Archie kiss under a light too. Then Archie and Veronica. 

All to an underscore of a modern cover of "You Light Up My Life"

On 3/31/2017 at 10:10 AM, Chick2Chic said:

I found this episode to be slow and rather boring. The pacing was off

This is episode #8... yeppers - they really are trying to totally emulate Twin Peaks!

[shapeshifter]

On March 31, 2017 at 0:47 PM, HeroLeague said:

The light thing is so overrated. I bet they will have Betty & Archie kiss under a light too. Then Archie and Veronica. 

You know you're too old for this show when you thought the light thing was for shippers to make fan art out of screen grabs. I guess the cool kids don't do that anymore; they're all grown up and have jobs doing the light effects on CW shows.

[zumpie]

On 3/31/2017 at 10:47 AM, HeroLeague said:

Quote

I wanna believe so bad that Jughead and Betty are endgame after getting the bathed in light treatment that Oliver/Felicity and Barry/Iris from Arrow and The Flash got.

The light thing is so overrated. I bet they will have Betty & Archie kiss under a light too. Then Archie and Veronica. 

It's highly unlikely there will be any Barchie kisses, lighted or otherwise any time soon. And I don't think we'll even see it for Veronica and Archie....fact is, Archie changes his mind every 10 seconds. Betty and Juggie don't. Whole point of the story line currently

[dwmckim]

13 hours ago, Cookie1981 said:

 

I love Jughead and think Cole is doing a good job but he has an acting tic of always looking like he is suppressing a smile during various serious moments that takes me out of the scene. 

Actually i see that as a very Jughead-esque quality whether intentional or not.

[jay741982]

On 3/31/2017 at 9:34 PM, angora said:

I loved the bathed-in-light kiss.  I don't watch Arrow and haven't gotten to this season of The Flash, so I'm not up on Berlanti-show kissing quirks, but I thought it was perfect for what was happening.  It's like, there they were outside the home Jughead no longer lives in after questioning his alcoholic gang member father about the murder of Betty's sister's fiancee, and in the midst of all that ugliness, there's them.  I can't speak to the other Berlanti couples, but Betty and Jughead, at least, could use a little light right now, and I'm glad they have each other.

I like the way the Kiss was set up and like you said they definitely could use some lightness. I just adore them together. I do see them being tested though from Fickle Fuckboy Archie who's not happy Betty isn't Panting over him and from FP

20 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

That's what it sounded like. First, I don't think you can actually force your girlfriend/wife to have an abortion (excuse me, an "appointment," and speaking of, maybe Polly should see an OB at this point?) she doesn't want, and second, how/why did she stay with him after that?! And third, why did he do that? Surely it wasn't another contamination-by-Blossom situation.

Maybe it is there is speculation that Polly is actually fathered by Clifford. It could play more into Hal's hatred of The Blossoms