S03.E18: Abra Kadabra

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The Flash battles Abra Kadabra, a villain from Earth-19, who makes him a tempting offer – release him and Abra Kadabra will reveal Savitar's true identity. Desperate to save Iris, Barry considers taking the deal but Gypsy breaches in to capture the villain for her own reasons and during the melee, Abra Kadabra manages to escape. Barry is furious that Gypsy interfered but Gypsy refuses to back down, forcing Cisco to take sides. Meanwhile, Julian is still a bit cold towards Caitlin but when she is severely injured in a battle with Gypsy, he rushes to her side.

Promo:

[mtlchick]

If I was offered tickets for Hamilton, I would make sure my schedule was cleared of EVERYTHING including my possible death.  

I'm going to skip Barry trying to get Savitar's name because I knew that was going to be a dead end.  But when The Flash end title popped up with 5 minutes left, and they cut back to Caitlin I was like "So she's going to die, someone is going to pull the necklace and...ooh boy."  So is Caitlin permanently dead and it's full out Killer Frost?

[bettername2come]

Caitlin, no! And really well acted moment by Carlos Valdes. I wasn't watching the clock, so I didn't realize how early they had stopped until we got to Caitlin dying and I saw it was 8:57. Fix it! Fix it! Somebody fuck with the timeline!

[Lantern7]

"Cross my heart and hope to- . . ." Really, show? Really?!?

I'm thinking Abra was full of shit. Even with advances in information retention, there's no way anybody can know exactly what happened 43 centuries prior. I do like Abra, though, and I hope we see him again soon. Maybe he'll turn Barry into a wooden puppet. And I think he dropped the name of next season's Big Bad, who wouldn't be a speedster.

Good news: Barry's going to the future! Bad news: He probably won't encounter the Legion of Super Heroes. And the jaunt will probably amount to bupkis. What sucks is the we gotta wait 3-4 weeks to find out about it.

[TobinAlbers]

I'm not getting the anger towards Gypsy. Joe opened the cell and let Abra Kadabra out. Gypsy as a law official was doing her job even if she did have a personal stake in it. Team Flash still has time to save Iris and putting it all on Gypsy just ain't right.

Is anyone going to ream Joe out for his indirectly causing Caitlin's injury and death? Because he does bear some responsibility. 

And the reason why Barry didn't simply phase the fragments out of Caitlin instead of having Julian do the surgery? 

That was a dope move of Barry speeding like hell ahead of the time machine ship, up the building, spin move jump back towards the ship to phase through and grab Abra Kadabra.  

Damn, I love how cold Abra Kadabra is. Looked Barry in the eye after an appeal to his humanity and said nothing about Savitar. Now that's a villain. Although it was sad how he piggybacked on someone else's actions to get another one over on The Flash. 

Well they named drop a villain who hasn't appeared yet. DeVoe who is probably 

Spoiler

Clifford DeVoe aka The Thinker who is not a speedster but one of The Flash's enemies. So I guess we'll be seeing him (or her if they do a gender bend)  in season 4.

Edited March 29, 2017 by TobinAlbers

[KirkB]

Yeah, they caught me. I was so wrapped up in the "will he or will he not spill the beans" with Kadabra (even though I actually figured he wouldn't, just to mess with Barry) I failed to notice how much time was left. And HR's sudden return distracted me more. The only difference is, I thought Cisco would be the one to take Caitlin's necklace off.

I'm not sure I buy what Kadabra was selling. How would a guy from the future know who Savitar was? It's not like it would have been public knowledge.

[Artsda]

That was quite an ending.

I wonder what happens if they put the necklace back on.

Barry's going to the future? That probably won't work out well.

[tennisgurl]

Damn it Bar-I mean Joe! Sorry, habit. I know he meant well, but he was still an idiot to trust that a supervillain would keep his word. Gypsy is hardly the bad guy here. And now Caitlyn is a bad guy, like she always feared. Letting bad guys go free is a BAD IDEA!

Wow, Kadabra might have a stupid name, but he was a badass villain. I loved him just coldly telling Barry how happy he was that Iris was going to die. That was just...evil.

Lots of good acting from everyone this week, especially in the Caitlyn dying scene. Poor Caitlyn.

Barry's going to the future huh? I would say he could just text someone from LoT, but they're kind of...busy right now, so maybe running is the best call. But, in general, they do know people with a working time ship, who would probably give them a ride. Just saying.

[Jediknight]

There has been a lot of strange things on this show.  I mean you've got Barry, wormholes, time travel, and Grodd, but tonight just destroyed how much I'm willing to suspend disbelief.  Somebody is giving away Hamilton tickets.  Come on, I know it's family, but you can buy a brand new car by selling 4 tickets.

[tennisgurl]

Well, now I know I would be trying my hardest to survive to the summer. FREE HAMILTON TICKETS!!! 

[KirkB]

Barry Allen: I time traveled to the past, it screwed things up. I time traveled to the future, and screwed things up. I'm done with time travel.

Barry Allen: I know what will fix this. Time travel!

Sigh.

[Cthulhudrew]

Next season on Legends of Tomorrow:

The Legends face off against the greatest threat to history ever: Barry Allen, aka The Flash!!!

[thuganomics85]

Well, at least it was Joe this time who ended up really fucking things over for everyone.  Then again, I'm at the point where everyone else knows Joe would do anything for Iris (or his family), so they really shouldn't have allowed him to be anywhere near Abra Kadabra by himself. Still, Joe fucked up, and he inadvertently got Caitlin injured and later dead.  Gold star, Joe!

Abra Kadabra was actually one of the better villains of the week, due to being the future and the actor (who I just saw on Gotham) brought the right amount of menace, but charm to the character as well.  Part of me suspects he never was going to tell Barry who Savitar was.  I know Barry tried to appeal to him as a "human", but he seemed like a true psychopath, who would get a kick out of seeing his future opponent suffer.

So, Caitlin might have just become full-blown Killer Frost now, thanks to Julian going against her wishes and pulling off the necklace.  Things are going to get a bit chilly, now (sorry, Snart!)

Always down for a Gypsy return.  Still hope she and Cisco end up making a go of it, even if that is not looking very likely at the moment.

Thought it was weird that there was no H.R. until the very end.  I wonder if they just couldn't find a need for the character this go around, or Tom Cavanagh needed a few days off.

Barry's big plan now is that since traveling into the past doesn't work, why not travel into the future?!  Already feel bad for all the future selfs whose lives will be fucked over when Barry comes to town!

[Lady Calypso]

Damnit Joe! At least this is your first really bad offense. Too bad it's had disastrous consequences with Caitlin. I also wonder what will happen when they inevitably put the necklace back on. I guess this is the true "Fate Worse Than Death" that Savitar was preaching.

Abra Kadabra was a fun villain, one of their better ones as of recently. I love him toying with Barry and not giving him what he wanted. Now that is what I call a villain. There's no way he ever would have told. Even if he had, he could easily have said any random name and they wouldn't know until they unmasked Savitar.

Good for Iris for shutting Barry down with trusting a villain.

Gypsy's always fun to see pop by. Her and Cisco have some good scenes together, and it could be fun to watch them give dating a try. 

Barry is going to the future, because why not? He's already gone to the past a bazillion times. Why not head to the future for a little vacay and some answers? 

The last scene was really, really good. At least it's not Barry who has the Main Cry of the episode. 

[Proteus]

27 minutes ago, doram said:

I really hope Caitlin stays dead and they allow Killer Frost to go full villain/trickster-type character like her Earth-2 counterpart. Or they can move the character to the Legends of Tomorrow cast.

And I hope none of that happens. I doubt it will. No way is Danielle leaving.

[RedVitC]

This was a good episode (though after the feels I got from last episode with the proposal and Barry singing to Iris it was hard to get back into the swing of things).

-Shouldn't there be more rules when dealing with a villain from the future? Like checking the timeline to see if not sending him back home and executing him would cause abberations? Maybe they should have brought him back to his time for trial or something. 

-Some cute moments with Barry and Iris, their cuteness brought some light to the episode. Iris is truly selfless. I can admire her for wanting to keep her morals intact even in the face of death. I don't know how I would have reacted in the same situation. And that scene with Joe at the end was moving and made me cry.

-That was not a good idea, Joe...

-I keep seeing people saying that Caitlin died, but my understanding is that she came back because her frost powers healed her. It's just that she was probably too weak so they took over completely (still not on board with the powers make her evil for some reason narrative, because it makes zero sense, but there we are). My guess is she'll join the team again at the end of the season (or after a few episodes), but with control over her powers. She'll probably keep the new look. I wonder what this means for the romance with Julian. I was starting to like it.

The next episode looks intense!

This is the third villain from the future wreaking havoc on our time. First Thawne traveled back and killed Nora Allen, then Savitar travels back to kill Iris and wreak all kinds of havoc and now this guy. The Speed Force keeps lecturing Barry, but it should maybe also keep an eye on these evil speedsters? (the last guy is not a speedster, so that would maybe be a job for the legends team)

Edited March 29, 2017 by RedVitC
better choice of words

[benteen]

Team Flash is back to doing what they do best.  Screwing things up for everybody!  I'm only amazed that Joe was the one to do the stupid by letting Kadabra out.  I was totally expecting Barry to do it...but then Barry decides to go to the future so he can screw more things up.  I have no doubt that he'll once again cause the major threat that the team faces next season.

Kadabra was a pretty badass villain.

Very good scene at the end with Caitlin.

[TDT]

I bet when they try and put the necklace back on,Caitlin shatters it and says something like"Actually i like myself better this way.."

Another month-long break?? Geez..

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yeah well, I don't think it's Barry who has fucked up everything for everybody-it's those fucking assholes from the future, who keep showing up like cockroaches to kill Barry because they're all jealous/scared/beaten of and by him. So anything that happens now, I'm laying at the feet of Thawne, Kadabra, Savitar and the Speed Force, who inhabit all the arrogance and thin skins of Greek Gods. Because just what the FUCK is Barry supposed to do???

I know I'm not supposed to think too hard about the whole future thing, because it makes no Fucking sense, but unless the Speed Force gives Barry immortality, how is it possible that Barry fought and defeated any of these villains from the 35th, 64th centuries? It's because of said defeats that led these fucktards to go BACK in time to FUCK with Barry in the first place.???????

And then there was the line how Savitar was the "First Speedster." So does that mean it's Jay Garrick??

I'm so sick and tired of these fucking hacks who call themselves writers and show runners for this show. I'm not even sure why they even wanted to do a show about Flash, let alone a super hero show, since they've shown me they have nothing but contempt and no respect for either.

It just makes me so glad, down on my knees thanking whoever that DC/WB wouldn't and won't let them touch Batman, because as sure as the sun rises in the East, they'd FUCK HIM AND HIS CHARACTER up as well. It's the only satisfaction I can take away from all this craptastic clusterfuck.??

[VCRTracking]

Even though I knew there was no way Caitlin was going to die and that Julian would rip her necklace off to save her and she'd turn into Killer Frost, part of me still was afraid.

Tom Felton was great in this episode. 

It was distracting me how much Abra Kadabra looked like John Leguizamo.

18 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It just makes me so glad, down on my knees thanking whoever that DC/WB wouldn't and won't let them touch Batman, because as sure as the sun rises in the East, they'd FUCK HIM AND HIS CHARACTER up as well. It's the only satisfaction I can take away from all this craptastic clusterfuck.

You don't watch Gotham do you?

[RedVitC]

23 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So anything that happens now, I'm laying at the feet of Thawne, Kadabra, Savitar and the Speed Force,

I've definitely been wondering about what the Speed Force is capable of in terms of stopping speedsters. A few episodes ago Speed Force Eddie said that they understood Barry's pain so they allowed him to make the decision to go back and save his mom, but that they couldn't let him him make any more decisions like that....but what about Thawne going back or Savitar? Can they/it actually stop a speedster or was that speech part of trying to get Barry to fight, too.

Edited March 29, 2017 by RedVitC

[GHScorpiosRule]

21 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

 

You don't watch Gotham do you?

Nope. And I've vented my spleen over that one, too. I have to take my pleasures where I can!?

ETA: Another thing that took me out of the episode was the lack of surgical masks on Julian, Iris, and Barry's faces during surgery on Caitlin.?

Edited March 29, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Bats27]

Quote

 

I hate that they might be going with the "evil KF" thing. First of all, it totally craps all over Barry's big moment in the actual KF episode. And two, this whole storyline has cliché and problematic from the beginning.

Here's an idea show, why not let KF be a hero while also doing an arc about her struggling/needing to learn how to control her powers? That sounds so much more interesting imo.

And I wish that they'd stop teasing the Cisco/Gypsy thing if they're not going to actually go anywhere with it.  Because it just gets expectations up, only to be let down.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Bats27

[Trini]

First, I want to talk about the ending with Caitlin. I feel like there's no middle ground here. (Okay, actually I think there is a middle ground, but the writers clearly are not interested in doing a nuanced story about Caitlin and her powers.) Either they find a a way to completely nullify her powers for good, or she goes full Killer Frost/villain - whether that means she's off the show, or bumped down to recurring, I don't know. I just don't think they can keep doing this "sometimes I'm KF, sometimes I'm not" back and forth for much longer. Definitely not another season.
 

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

... I do like Abra, though, and I hope we see him again soon. ...

I think we'll see him again. I don't think they would cast Dastmalchian, just for one appearance.
 

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

... Thought it was weird that there was no H.R. until the very end.  I wonder if they just couldn't find a need for the character this go around, or Tom Cavanagh needed a few days off. ...

Spoiler

He's directing the next episode, 3.19, so he needed a light workload to prep, etc.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

Also the whole thing with not taking Caitlin to the hospital was stupid. (Yeah, yeah, it makes a 'better' scene to have the team save her, BUT STILL.) They'd rather her die than go to jail? The Central City Hospital screens for metas now? And even then, she still would have gotten proper medical care (it's a TV show, I'm assuming). But it brought up something that hasn't been touched on AT ALL since the "Killer Frost" episode -- has Caitlin been living as a fugitive this whole time??

[bmoore4026]

You know, you don't have to be evil, Caitlin.  Elsa, Sailor Mercury, Jack Frost, and Iceman are all ice powered and they're not bad guys.

[rtms77]

Glad to see that at least Caitlin has some killer powers and is very strong with them. I predict next season will all about developing and coming onto her own power set and or struggling to subdue her evil side/getting rid of that side of her. Still in just that scene alone she proved she is already smarter about her powers than her E2 counter part. If what they said and showed holds true, Caitlin is now immortal. She literally blew herself up than evaporated and than reformed into a solid. That is powerful. 

As for Caitlin living as a wanted fugitive, it really doesn't make any sense except plot contrivance. She gone on dates and been very open and public and not one person has recognized her in all that time? Not to mention all the police had to do is find her place and arrest her.

Edited March 29, 2017 by rtms77

[Cthulhudrew]

9 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

You know, you don't have to be evil, Caitlin.  Elsa, Sailor Mercury, Jack Frost, and Iceman are all ice powered and they're not bad guys.

Yeah- I hope they finally get to the bottom of why Caitlin's powers automatically make her EEEEVILLLL!!

I mean, it's easy enough to write it off as being due to Flashpoint- some of the villains there (Julian/Alchemy, that abusive home girl) weren't strictly evil normally either, but were manipulated into it. I just wish people would start asking the right questions sometimes instead of blindly taking things at face value. "She says she's turning evil, so let's just go with that."

That's one thing that bugged me about this episode- everyone angsting over how to deal with Kadabra, and not wondering just what the heck it was he was after in the first place. Joe was the only one who even thought to wonder what it was Kadabra was looking for, and then he let Kadabra go without getting an answer (but at least it finally prompted them to start thinking about it).

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, KirkB said:

I'm not sure I buy what Kadabra was selling. How would a guy from the future know who Savitar was? It's not like it would have been public knowledge.

The same way he knows who Barry Allen is. Everything that happened to Flash is history to Abra, and he's got a vested interest in studying most of the details. While one might not expect him to retain this or that detail, surely he would have some information about the broad strokes.

Also

there's a theory that Abra IS Savitar, and that Abra/Savitar is H.R. A theory that has some credence IMO with H.R. not being around for the entirety of Abra's visit.

[bmoore4026]

57 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Yeah- I hope they finally get to the bottom of why Caitlin's powers automatically make her EEEEVILLLL!!

I mean, it's easy enough to write it off as being due to Flashpoint- some of the villains there (Julian/Alchemy, that abusive home girl) weren't strictly evil normally either, but were manipulated into it. I just wish people would start asking the right questions sometimes instead of blindly taking things at face value. "She says she's turning evil, so let's just go with that."

That's one thing that bugged me about this episode- everyone angsting over how to deal with Kadabra, and not wondering just what the heck it was he was after in the first place. Joe was the only one who even thought to wonder what it was Kadabra was looking for, and then he let Kadabra go without getting an answer (but at least it finally prompted them to start thinking about it).

There is (or was) a DC superhero called Ice Maiden (later Ice) who became a member of the Justice League.  Can't see why Caitlin can't become her.

Also, did anyone else feel like jumping Abra Kadabra or was it just me?

[Trini]

I wasn't expecting the Savitar identity reveal to be in this episode, but I thought they'd at least drop another clue. I don't think we got anything on that front.

[Bats27]

4 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

You know, you don't have to be evil, Caitlin.  Elsa, Sailor Mercury, Jack Frost, and Iceman are all ice powered and they're not bad guys.

Shhhh, that would imply that these writers could write this with, well any degree of nuance.  And when an animated Disney film, and an Anime series from the 90's, is better at that then you, you have problems.

And yeah, they still haven't explained WHY her powers make her crazy, and not Wally, or Barry, or Cisco, etc.

At least in the comics, the explanation for why Caitlin's powers make her dangerous makes sense, it isn't a cliché "oh they make her crazy" thing, and it makes her sympathetic to a degree even.

The show, has none of that right now.

[cambridgeguy]

One of these days they'll have to explain why they don't just tell Iris to take a vacation on Earth 38 for a while.  Speaking of which, I guess they don't know J'onn can read minds because that sure would have been handy when they had Abra locked up.  Abra is also a moron - if you have a flying ship then why are you opening up your portal so close to the ground?  Barry can do a lot but he can't fly.

Not much progress on the who is Savitar front although it pretty much has to be a known face.  HR leaving to get some nookie for two days makes him a little too obvious though.

[Grace19]

Intense episode, I loved it. First, kadabra was a good villain and savage, I hope we get to see more of him in the future.

I liked Caitlin/Albert pairing, but after this episode I ship it, they are so good together, I hope it works out for them and they better don't kill Albert or Caitlin.

Speaking if which, I am not worried about Caitlin, Danielle is not leaving the show, iris can't be the only female regular character on the show. I would rather they make Caitlin an anti hero than a straight up villain, let her struggle with her power and end up learning to control it or make her loose it, just don't turn her into a villain.

Joe broke my heart in his scene with iris, and finally some iris/Joe scene! Love it.

Cisco and Albert scene when Caitlin died was also very emotional.

Overall a great episode, can't wait for the rest, hate that we have to wait a month for it.

[Grace19]

I don't get people's hate for Barry travelling to the future. Travelling to the past is not the same as travelling to the future, the former poses the danger of changing the present, the later in no way influences the present but rather prevents bad thing from happening in the future.

And as we already know, iris was never meant to die, these evil speedsters are the ones changing the timeline willing. Barry is going to the future to prevent them from screwing with team flash future. The only ones his travelling to the future are going to potentially screw over is the villains.

And seriously, this is a show about a speedster that can travel through time, do we really want to watch a show about a hero that can time travel but never dose it? That will be boring in my opinion. I get that Barry have messed up the timelines before, but not all time travelling is bad, as far as he doesn't change what have already taken place I don't see any harm there.

[benteen]

8 hours ago, RedVitC said:

I've definitely been wondering about what the Speed Force is capable of in terms of stopping speedsters. A few episodes ago Speed Force Eddie said that they understood Barry's pain so they allowed him to make the decision to go back and save his mom, but that they couldn't let him him make any more decisions like that....but what about Thawne going back or Savitar? Can they/it actually stop a speedster or was that speech part of trying to get Barry to fight, too.

This is an excellent point.  Thawne has literally wiped his ass with the timeline and was the one who altered it originally.  Yet the Speed Force only gets upset when Barry does it?

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

One of these days they'll have to explain why they don't just tell Iris to take a vacation on Earth 38 for a while.  Speaking of which, I guess they don't know J'onn can read minds because that sure would have been handy when they had Abra locked up.  Abra is also a moron - if you have a flying ship then why are you opening up your portal so close to the ground?  Barry can do a lot but he can't fly.

 

Well, since Savitar is a speedster and seems to know all, he can easily find Iris and bring her back to E1 once it's her time to die. It's actually better for them to have Iris there to keep an eye on her.

[ohjoy]

8 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

You know, you don't have to be evil, Caitlin.  Elsa, Sailor Mercury, Jack Frost, and Iceman are all ice powered and they're not bad guys.

Oh my gosh thanks for that. Made my day!

I am so Team Gypsy right now. What the heck guys?! Abra Kadabra was not going to tell them anything. Why are they mad at Gyspy for doing her job? How is she suddenly the enemy because she doesn't bow to the oh-so-obvious threats and bribes of the VOTW? I'm just dumbfounded by Cisco's, "I don't know if we can make it work now that Gypsy's gone ahead and brought a criminal to justice after he totally made it clear that he was not about to cooperate with Barry's desperate plea to reveal Savitar's identity."

I never thought I'd see the day where I was watching this show for Caitlin and Julian, but here we are. Also, I in no way believe HR was on a sex-romp for his missing two days. I'm sure that will be revealed later.

[waving feather]

Unfortunately, Barry has become my least favorite thing about this series. Every week it seems he has a new revelation or half-cooked idea to save Iris. This storyline is not doing the character any favors. I still like Iris, but any scene where Barry is heavily featured is not enjoyable for me. And to think I adored Barry back in season one.

My favorite part of the episode was definitely the end... Great acting by Carlos and Tom and Tom. Their shock and anguish were palpable.

Abra Kadabra and Gypsy were both wastes of time because it didn't bring the story forward much. The Savitar mystery needs a development fast.

You guys mentioned Jack Frost! "Rise of the Guardians" is one of my favorite movies.

[Tarasme]

4 hours ago, benteen said:

This is an excellent point.  Thawne has literally wiped his ass with the timeline and was the one who altered it originally.  Yet the Speed Force only gets upset when Barry does it?

The Berlanti team addresses the ramifications of Thawne's eeevol high jinks in another show...

[maxineofarc]

13 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Tom Felton was great in this episode.

He's half the reason I'm still watching. I don't know how he manages to sell some of the ridiculous things the scripts put in his mouth when not everyone in the main cast does, but he's just incredibly good at this. I am still wondering how old Julian is supposed to be since now not only does he have multiple degrees, one of them a doctorate, field work experience, and a career switch that probably required something other than a Ph.D in archaeology, but now he also somehow had time to do a stint in the Army? If he was in Afghanistan or something, he should have had plenty of experience dealing with shrapnel. (I really really hope she doesn't kill him and he gets to stay on the show.)

It would be nice if, instead of the team agreeing that trying to get Savitar's name out of Kadabra was Barry's decision, they maybe acknowledged that Iris might want to have a say in this sort of thing? The women continue to operate as satellites of the men; even Gypsy is motivated by a man. I was half expecting her to tell Cisco that it was his Earth-19 doppelganger who was her partner. How exactly would knowing Savitar's identity actually help here, anyway?

Speaking of Cisco, I found his attempt at game in this episode really off-putting. If that's the way he talks to people he's interested in, no wonder he doesn't date much.

Edited March 29, 2017 by maxineofarc

[tennisgurl]

8 hours ago, Bats27 said:

And yeah, they still haven't explained WHY her powers make her crazy, and not Wally, or Barry, or Cisco, etc

That's a big issue with I have with this whole Caitlyn plot. I have NO CLUE why her having ice powers makes her turn evil, or into some kind of evil split personality. It cant be because getting meta human powers automatically makes you evil, because we know TONS of meta humans who aren't evil (including half of Team Flash), it cant be because she was evil in another universe, because we saw Cisco and Robbie were evil in that same universe, and neither of them became evil when they got their powers (Robbie went a bit crazy, but that was because he had another person living in his head and didn't know what was going on, not because he had powers), and it cant be because of having ice powers in particular, because how does that make sense at all? I just don't get it. Its not like Caitlyn struggles with her dark side, like say, Oliver or Sara in other Arrowverse shows do, she's a nice person, who at her worst, is a bit icy (heh), so I just don't understand. I hope she just deals with this and gets to being a good guy who just happens to have powers. You know, like TONS OF OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS UNIVERSE!

Also, I don't mind Barry going to the future quite as much as the past, but I do question why he doesn't just call his friends who happen to own a time machine to come by and give him a quick lift. I'm sure they would, and since Iris isn't dead yet, this shouldn't do too much damage to time (more than they do anyway), so why not? These guys come up with amazing, universe traveling technology every day, someone had to have come up with a way to get in touch with the Legends gang. Granted, they're pretty preoccupied right now trying to escape from an evil parallel universe created by a shade of one of Barry's arch enemy's, so they might be hard to get in touch with, but Barry doesn't know that!

[GHScorpiosRule]

My theory as to why Barry won't reach out to the Legends is because they got angry/peeved/judgmental with Barry when they learned he'd gone back to the past and then returning, causing Flashpoint. They'd probably lecture him that as much as he wanted to do it, he shouldn't and I don't know that they would help him.

[Trini]

The Legends can't lecture Barry because the entire premise of that show is about screwing with timelines. I'd would love more Flash/Legends crossovers, but the showrunners of Legends seem to be not as friendly with the Flash showrunners (as opposed to Arrow).
 

12 hours ago, Grace19 said:

Speaking if which, I am not worried about Caitlin, Danielle is not leaving the show, iris can't be the only female regular character on the show. I would rather they make Caitlin an anti hero than a straight up villain, let her struggle with her power and end up learning to control it or make her loose it, just don't turn her into a villain.

I don't want to lose the only other female regular either, but they've been so lazy with Caitlin and this KF arc.  ^This is what they should have been doing this this whole season, but instead powers=evil. I'm just not optimistic since there are only 5 episodes left.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Trini

[Al Herkimer]

Iris scrubbed in on Caitlin's operation. That was bizarre.  Doesn't she have an actual job they could show her doing?

[ruby24]

58 minutes ago, doram said:

I'd trade Caitlin and Julian* for Linda Park and the DA off the top of my head. The show's been too Star Labs-centric since season 2. I miss season 1 and the sense that the world was bigger than the nerds's den at Star Labs. 

THIS!!!!! A thousand times this! Thank you!

God, I wonder if there's any way the people behind the show can see how clear that is. The show is being suffocated by Star Labs, imo. There's very little sense of the wider world of Central City that Barry is the supposed to be the hero of. Season 1 did a much better job at being more broadly focused, with the Wells storyline not heating up until around episode 15 or so. 

Next season they need a different kind of villain who is after the city itself in some way, and The Flash incidentally, but no more of this personal revenge stuff directed at Barry.  If Caitlin can stay Killer Frost for a full season that immediately negates a lot of the need for Star Labs (Cisco can work in CCPD), but the big problem is Tom Cavanagh, who they don't want to get rid of. I don't know how they can work that one out.

I wish they would though.

[AudienceofOne]

47 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

God, I wonder if there's any way the people behind the show can see how clear that is. The show is being suffocated by Star Labs, imo. There's very little sense of the wider world of Central City that Barry is the supposed to be the hero of.

This is true of Arrow as well. There should be so many emotional beats surrounding how the vigilante is seen in the public sphere but it's only used when it's necessary to make a plot point, rather than being part of the fundamental context of the show. So there's a parade for the Flash or a single YouTube video of Kid Flash but other than that, there's no sense of how these people are perceived in the wider community. Barry is motived by fixing his mistakes or saving Iris or anything other than actually being a hero for his city. I find it frustrating as well. Like he needs an external motivator to be the Flash, rather than just saving people.

[legaleagle53]

21 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

You know, you don't have to be evil, Caitlin.  Elsa, Sailor Mercury, Jack Frost, and Iceman are all ice powered and they're not bad guys.

Their powers don't require them to steal people's body heat in order to survive.  Caitlin's powers do -- she's an energy vampire, which is why she was afraid of becoming Killer Frost, who was named that for a reason.  She has to kill others by stealing their body heat in order to stay alive.

Edited March 30, 2017 by legaleagle53

[legaleagle53]

4 minutes ago, doram said:

That doesn't take away  freewill. They can make tech to enhance Cisco's vibe powers but they can't create a power suit for Killer Frost? The only reason this is an issue is to prop her  special meta snowflake status. 

It's also the reality of the situation.  Cisco's vibe powers aren't fatal to anyone he uses them on, and he doesn't depend on the constant use of his powers to survive.  Caitlin does.  She has to kill others just to live.  The necklace WAS her "power suit" to keep her lethal powers in check.

[TwistedandBored]

On 3/28/2017 at 9:44 PM, KirkB said:

Barry Allen: I time traveled to the past, it screwed things up. I time traveled to the future, and screwed things up. I'm done with time travel.

Barry Allen: I know what will fix this. Time travel!

Sigh.

 

My thoughts exactly.