S01.E03: Living The Dream

[mojoween]

8 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Where's the hippo?

No more shots of the cast gazing at the ocean, please.

Did they take the crown that was on the birthday cake, covered with icing/frosting, and put it on Amabella's head, without wiping it off?

This show drives me nuts sometime that they trail off on threads with no follow up.  Jane and Madeline get home, the hippo is missing, Jane curses and then...nothing.  No follow up, no looking for the hippo, nothing.

I noticed the birthday crown too and was surprised that Renata of all people would do that.

Is that stone bridge a real bridge?  If so I want to drive on it one million times.  It's gorgeous!

[lovelynn]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

Loving the music, but 1st graders digging Fleetwood Mac?  I wish.

I assumed it would cost the show too much to play proper Disney music.

[pbutler111]

  2 hours ago, Razzberry said:

He kinda blew that right away by admitting he gets physical.

Loving the music, but 1st graders digging Fleetwood Mac?  I wish.

 

 

I explained Perry's actions (or rather my interpretation) in my post. He would not have admitted it unless it benefited him in some way.

I think first graders -- or any kid -- will dig any music with a good beat.

[humbleopinion]

Yes, the Bixby Creek Bridge is real and gives credence to the story's locale.

Google images of Bixby Bridge.

The Bixby Bridge, rugged coast of Big Sur and Pacific Ocean...beautiful.

[Giesela]

Well dang as a man hater I certainly feel simple and naive!  Here I was giving Perry all sort of credit for being honest with the therapist.  At first I didn't understand why Celeste was lying about the physical abuse, then I assumed it was sort of a test to see if Perry would bring it up and that is why later she says for the first time she has hope.  I was so happy that he was being so honest.   I kept waiting for the therapist or Celeste to call him on his looks and insecurity.  But insecurity doesn't have to have a basis in reality.  I was spinning speculation in my head of Perry being some boot strapper of a success from a poor background while Celeste is from a long lineage of educated money blah blah and that is why he is so insecure.   

They have been to counseling before apparently and yet we know nothing about it so we are left to speculate in the dark.  Can this really be the first time Celeste has threatened to leave him?  Was that neck grab the first time she has been frightened enough to think of leaving?  Seems hard to believe.  More like when things escalate past a certain point they go to counseling to back it up some, rinse lather repeat.  Which would be epically neurotic. 

In total leaps of speculation and adding symbology clues up is it possible to think that the shoe prints on the beach ending mean that Jane's rapist is dead? As in the mysterious dead person?  Or is it  symbology that she still doesn't know who he is?  Why does Jane keep running up to the edge of the cliff in that one scene?  At first I thought suicidal ideation/dreams.  Now I'm wondering if this is some sort of cutsey foreshadowing of the dead persons having a bunch of broken bones - ala fell off or pushed off a cliff.  

I don't understand Jane's gun or PTSD.  She wasn't attacked in that sense and nothing we have been shown would lead to the kind of paranoia about being tracked down.   Is it that she is there to try to find they guy and is worried that if he finds out he will retaliate?  But why would she want to find him?  It seems so unlikely to me that she would do that.  If she were to find out who the guy is, he has fathers rights.  So in the entirely unlikely event she could press a claim of rape, after going to the room willing, his word against hers, waiting years to bring it up, his money which would be motivation to lie,  all of which would work against her - but say she got some sort of conviction - I think the father still has some rights. And chances are he wouldn't be in jail that long.  I would never want to risk the father in a case like this hanging around the fringes of my life demanding parental visitation or my child actively wanting to get to know his father which would probably happen.  If she is trying to find him to kill him, again why would a single mother risk that?  Leaving your child parentless if you go to prison?  I can see maybe a single woman seeking vengence but for a mother who chose to have the child it just seems so risky.  The only remaining motivation to find the guy is money and she hasn't been portrayed as the that type.  So I would have to think that she is not in Monterey to find him and go back to not understanding the gun. 

How does someone as  neurotic as Renata become such a success?  Is that what the scene in the office was about, how she used to be normal and how the fight to the top changed her? Is becoming a competitive  I must win mother the female version of power and money corrupt wolf of wall street behavior?  I could get something along those likes but  very hard to not be impatient with and dismissive of.  Can't get a read on her husband, he seems like a slimy douche.    I don't understand the previews about the bullying.  That school seems too incompetent.  

Bonnie and Nathan just seem like foil cut outs to me. 

Edited to say the more I think about the Perry Celeste at therepy scenethe more it seemed ike something that has played out before  She watches while he confesses. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Giesela

[Eyes High]

5 hours ago, mojoween said:

Those gift baskets were ridiculous for a six year olds birthday party.  My son gave and got little plastic bags of dollar store trinkets, heh.

Grew up in a pretty average household (financially speaking), and same. Miniature candy bars were the big loot bag prize, as I recall, and yes, we called them "loot bags," not "gift baskets." 

I'd say all of Amabella's birthday party was ridiculous for a six year old's birthday party; at the risk of sounding curmudgeonly, cake and Pin the Tail on the Donkey were pretty much all my friends and I could expect at that age in the birthday party department, and we were glad of it. Of course, it wasn't about what the kids would like, was it? Expensive parties for children and teenagers are about impressing the other parents.

Quote

I hate it when people call their kids "gifted". I can't with that. Sorry Reneta.

Of course Renata claims that her child is "gifted," like every other delusional rich mom. Amabella could truly be an unusually intelligent child, of course, but I have my doubts (and Renata going on about how intuitive and sensitive she was and how deeply wounded Amabella was by Chloe's snub was vomit-worthy). Besides, Amabella can't be all that gifted, if the educators at this "private school at public school price" school have seen fit to lump her in with all the other presumably non-gifted kids in the same class in first grade with no special activities or accommodation for her giftedness. A very smart adult I know started getting streamed into special education activities separate from the other kids in first grade (Amabella's age), although she didn't enter full-time congregated gifted classes until a few years later. 

I might disparage Renata a lot, but Laura Dern is fantastic in the role and Renata's clothes are amaaaaaaazing. 

For someone who was smugly talking about Skye's refusal to sanction "non-consensual touching," last episode, Bonnie sure went in to hug Madeline with an impressive lack of hesitation.

Madeline's little sobs in the car only reminded me of Elle Woods' meltdown in Legally Blonde when she got dumped in public. I know she was trying, but...yeah. Sorry, Reese.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Eyes High

[jenh526]

I just want to say, I think Nicole Kidman looks so beautiful in this series. But she looks heavier and her hair looks different than IRL. I wonder if they're putting some padding on her or something because she looks pretty stick-thin here: http://www.justjared.com/photo-gallery/3866224/nicole-kidman-naomi-watts-2017-oscars-party-08/

Or is it just the flowier clothes? Is she wearing a wig?

[mochamajesty]

Well, I don't believe that abusers can change - until shown otherwise I will stand by my posts. I might be wrong.  As someone said,  40% of the show is already over.   A turnaround on Perry's part will not be believable to me.

We will see.

[FemmyV]

I was thinking that Celeste's wardrobe was reminiscent of Audrey Hepburn, a la sweater/hip hugger combos.

[Blakeston]

10 hours ago, lmsweb said:

Maddie almost reminds me of Tracy Flick all grown up.

Renata is the one who reminds me the most of Tracy Flick. Tracy would never give up her career for her kids, and work part-time at a community theater like Madeline does. And she wouldn't be concerned with fighting for the "little guy" the way that Madeline is.

 

12 hours ago, Muffyn said:

Celeste saying there hadn't been violence and then her husband owning (a teeny, tiny portion of) it was interesting.  She has admitted she likes when it leads to rough sex and she conflates that with passion.  His OMG-she-could-leave-me-because-every-man-ever-would-want-her felt strange coming from a wealthy, highly-successful, very attractive man.  They are a very attractive couple.  I'm not sure she has one up on him.  If he wasn't an abuser, he could do quite well.  But, he's a controlling abuser, so, okay, he shouldn't get anyone ever.    

The world is crawling with attractive people who are insecure, and afraid that their partners will leave them. And it's an especially common theme with abusers, so it fits him nicely.

[nara]

I think Celeste and Perry are the only characters that have shown nudity on the show (Gordon's rear was slightly visible in this episode, but not a lot). If so, do you think it's supposed to be related to their "passionate" relationship or because they are the only actors who allowed it in their contracts?

Re: Abby, is it possible that she wants to move out because she sees herself as an obstacle to Madeline and Ed's marriage? Abby is the reason Madeline still thinks about Nathan and that attachment has come between her and Ed on a couple of occasions. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

13 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

The world is crawling with attractive people who are insecure, and afraid that their partners will leave them. And it's an especially common theme with abusers, so it fits him nicely.

Feeling afraid that your partner will leave you makes for a good excuse to be controlling and abusive and turns the abuser/Perry into the "victim," which then is used to justify the behavior. 

And part of the controlling and abusive behavior is that the person is inconsistent; Celeste had no idea that Perry was going to be so angry about the kids going to Frozen. So the end result is walking on eggshells, never knowing when your partner is going to blow up over stupid shit, stuff that two weeks ago wouldn't be an issue. It is crazy-making. 

To me, Abby moving out is typical teenage stuff, always thinking that the grass is greener with the non-custodial parent. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Auntie Anxiety

[mojoween]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

might disparage Renata a lot, but Laura Dern is fantastic in the role and Renata's clothes are amaaaaaaazing. 

I want that purple dress with the black overlay more than dinner.

[betha]

24 minutes ago, nara said:

Re: Abby, is it possible that she wants to move out because she sees herself as an obstacle to Madeline and Ed's marriage? Abby is the reason Madeline still thinks about Nathan and that attachment has come between her and Ed on a couple of occasions. 

I'm going to vote yes to the first part but not to your reason why. Not spoiled or anything, just a gut feeling. 

[Giesela]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Expensive parties for children and teenagers are about impressing the other parents.

Of course Renata claims that her child is "gifted," like every other delusional rich mom. Amabella could truly be an unusually intelligent child, of course, but I have my doubts (and Renata going on about how intuitive and sensitive she was and how deeply wounded Amabella was by Chloe's snub was vomit-worthy). Besides, Amabella can't be all that gifted, if the educators at this "private school at public school price" school have seen fit to lump her in with all the other presumably non-gifted kids in the same class in first grade with no special activities or accommodation for her giftedness. A very smart adult I know started getting streamed into special education activities separate from the other kids in first grade (Amabella's age), although she didn't enter full-time congregated gifted classes until a few years later. 

Madeline's little sobs in the car only reminded me of Elle Woods' meltdown in Legally Blonde when she got dumped in public. I know she was trying, but...yeah. Sorry, Reese.

I think we can safely assume that every emotion Renata subscribes to Amabelle, so sensitive, so smart, so crushed about her besties etc., are really how SHE feels and thinks.  Does she even see Amabelle as her own person?  I question that. 

Yea, I get whiffs of Elle Woods a lot too but I'm not sure if its Reese or the character has organic similarities of Elle grownup.

[DarkRaichu]

- I thought it was weird how the shoes of the rapist were shown (and subsequent footsteps in the sand).  Upon rewatch I noticed all scenes of male protagonists included a shot of their shoes at varying degree.  So based on how tall of the rapist's silhouette and shoes, I am guessing that the rapist is

Spoiler

Perry.  He was the only one shown with dress shoes on.  The other male characters wear some kind of canvas / relaxed shoes.

  I hope it was just a red herring though ;)

- I like how everyone thought that the birthday party was better than the Disney on Ice trip.

- From several angles you could say this was Renata's episode.  She got what she needed (not necessary wanted) throughout the episode: successful birthday party, Ammabella having fun, husband who desired her, roadblock for Madeline's puppet show, etc.

-  Sorry I did not find Bonnie's dance that hot.  What am I missing?

- That therapy session showed great acting by Nicole Kidman and Skarsgard.  Celeste' expressions when Perry was talking showed great range.  I'd say she was a better actress without dialogues.  Skarsgard somehow was able to make himself look ugly in that scene, to go along with his lines. Great jobs

- Madeliene crying in her car showed human side of her character, which could be as easily shown as cliche.  Nice job writers

[Eyes High]

10 minutes ago, Giesela said:

I think we can safely assume that every emotion Renata subscribes to Amabelle, so sensitive, so smart, so crushed about her besties etc., are really how SHE feels and thinks.  Does she even see Amabelle as her own person?  I question that. 

Excellent point. I never thought of it that way.

8 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

-  Sorry I did not find Bonnie's dance that hot.  What am I missing?

It wasn't so much the dance moves as the fact that it was a very beautiful and fit woman doing the dance moves.

[mochamajesty]

6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Excellent point. I never thought of it that way.

It wasn't so much the dance moves as the fact that it was a very beautiful and fit woman doing the dance moves.

Yep. In a room full of middle aged people and kids, she stood out.

[DarkRaichu]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

It wasn't so much the dance moves as the fact that it was a very beautiful and fit woman doing the dance moves.

Nice moves, but not erection inducing (YMMV).  Perhaps those men just have not had it in a long time ;)

[Giesela]

17 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

- I thought it was weird how the shoes of the rapist were shown (and subsequent footsteps in the sand).  Upon rewatch I noticed all scenes of male protagonists included a shot of their shoes at varying degree.  So based on how tall of the rapist's silhouette and shoes, I am guessing that the rapist is

  Hide contents

Perry.  He was the only one shown with dress shoes on.  The other male characters wear some kind of canvas / relaxed shoes.

  I hope it was just a red herring though ;)

- I like how everyone thought that the birthday party was better than the Disney on Ice trip.

- From several angles you could say this was Renata's episode.  She got what she needed (not necessary wanted) throughout the episode: successful birthday party, Ammabella having fun, husband who desired her, roadblock for Madeline's puppet show, etc.

-  Sorry I did not find Bonnie's dance that hot.  What am I missing?

- That therapy session showed great acting by Nicole Kidman and Skarsgard.  Celeste' expressions when Perry was talking showed great range.  I'd say she was a better actress without dialogues.  Skarsgard somehow was able to make himself look ugly in that scene, to go along with his lines. Great jobs

- Madeliene crying in her car showed human side of her character, which could be as easily shown as cliche.  Nice job writers

Good catch on the shoes!  Lots of clues here adding up.  

Yes, I think Madeline lost on the party fight in terms of what guests liked.  But Renata is probably still mad and after revenge so in terms of Madeline poking Renata about being insensitive I guess she got what she wanted.  I thought it was actually poor behavior on Madeline's part not to be nicer to Renata when she wanted to invite Ziggy.  I was on Madeline's side before but now I'm thinking Madeline sort of gets what she deserves although she is dragging a lot of people into misery with her.  Is there some history there? Besides just I used to be a poor working Mom and Renata represents all awfullness rich working mom?

Bonnie - she is strange pussy.  All men desire it right?  They don't know her, she is a different race/exotic , their wives are uptight WASPS (or so they see them) she dances very sexually...I mean this lights up a mans fantasies on about 10 levels.  

[DarkRaichu]

2 minutes ago, Giesela said:

Bonnie - she is strange pussy.  All men desire it right?  They don't know her, she is a different race/exotic , their wives are uptight WASPS (or so they see them) she dances very sexually...I mean this lights up a mans fantasies on about 10 levels.  

Ah, I forgot she was from different social circle than the millionaire male types in the series.  Make sense.

[stagmania]

2 hours ago, lovelynn said:

I assumed it would cost the show too much to play proper Disney music.

It costs six figures to play Fleetwood Mac. 

1 hour ago, nara said:

I think Celeste and Perry are the only characters that have shown nudity on the show (Gordon's rear was slightly visible in this episode, but not a lot). If so, do you think it's supposed to be related to their "passionate" relationship or because they are the only actors who allowed it in their contracts?

Jane was nude in this episode before she walked into the water. I assume that for the characters we haven't seen nude, it's just because it's not appropriate for their story so far. We've been told that Madeline and Ed, for example, don't have much of a sex life. And Renata and her husband were getting it on at work, so full nudity would've been quite the bold choice. 

[QuinnM]

Quote

And Renata and her husband were getting it on at work, so full nudity would've been quite the bold choice. 

Apologies if I missed this but what does Gordon do for a living?

[stagmania]

21 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Apologies if I missed this but what does Gordon do for a living?

I assumed he was a tech CEO...but I don't recall specifically. He's definitely got the affectations.

[mojoween]

It amused me that Nicole was standing in stocking feet and Alexander was a head taller. Probably feels weird to Nicole since Tom and Keith are both shorter whether she's barefoot or in heels.

[Giesela]

I saw Kidman on Graham Norton, I can't remember what she was wearing but she looked like about a million miles of leg. At the Oscars she looked so pale she was translucent.  So pale you wondered if she painted herself white.  

Gonna keep standing up for the greek chorus.  I love some snarky exposition. 

The chorus has mentioned several times about all the most perfect couples have secrets.  We have seen Celeste's and Perrys.  Will there be one for Ed and Maddy?  Renata and...and...slimy hubby? Nathan and Bonnie?

Edited March 6, 2017 by Giesela

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

Nice moves, but not erection inducing (YMMV).  Perhaps those men just have not had it in a long time ;)

Between people getting boners over Bonnie waving her arms in the air, and there being a huge protest to stop a community theater from doing Avenue Q, I'm thinking these people really don't get out much.

[Cardie]

47 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Jane was nude in this episode before she walked into the water.

I wonder if she really did this or it is part of her symbolic recasting of the experience. Walking into the ocean nude can denote a wish to be cleansed but also a wish to die.

[lmsweb]

25 minutes ago, Giesela said:

I saw Kidman on Graham Norton, I can't remember what she was wearing but she looked like about a million miles of leg. At the Oscars she looked so pale she was translucent.  So pale you wondered if she painted herself white.  

Gonna keep standing up for the green chorus.  I love some snarky exposition. 

I LOVE the Greek Chorus. It was in the book as well, and just as funny, I thought.

[teddysmom]

Quote

Did they take the crown that was on the birthday cake, covered with icing/frosting, and put it on Amabella's head, without wiping it off?

Yeah what was that about? Didn't she already have a crown on? I was half asleep but I thought, sure put icing in her hair, that'll be fun washing out. 

Quote

I like how everyone thought that the birthday party was better than the Disney on Ice trip.

I sure did, but I think those Disney on Ice things look like torture. Thank Jesus I don't have kids. 

It seems like Nicole stopped messing with her face so much. She looks amazing.  

I need to get the book. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by teddysmom

[MaryWebGirl]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

Apologies if I missed this but what does Gordon do for a living?

There's a mild physical resemblance but I see him as the guy who drives the orange Lambo in Silicon Valley--made big tech money early and now just invests and lets other people do the creative work and heavy lifting. From her phone call it also sounded like Renata did more along the lines of VC stuff. It's different form Ed, who appears to do actual hands-on stuff.

[Giesela]

Yea, can you really afford that house on the beach doing websites?  

[teddysmom]

Quote

Yea, can you really afford that house on the beach doing websites?  

He was designing a new site for a pharma company, so I think he's doing okay.  Designing web sites that complicated is no easy task and takes months.  Lots of beta testing, getting input from the company, etc. Hours can really add up. 

[Giesela]

I thought he told Abigal he was doing a website for a drone company?  

Avenue Q sounds good!  And was I guess evidenced by its awards. 

And your link explained a lot about why this is a controversy and a crusade for Madeline. 

 Not because of the language and homosexuality as stated but because raising your kids to think they are perfect and their world will be perfect is something everyone the town is very invested in.  If "they" had a healthy sense of humor they might go and laugh at themselves but Renata et al. don't seem to be able to do that.  Especially Renata simply because it is again Madeline rubbing everyones nose in it. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Giesela

[teddysmom]

Quote

I thought he told Abigal he was doing a website for a drone company?  

I thought he said drug. So you could be right. I couldn't hear a lot of it and was planning on rewatching with CC on tonight.  

[teddysmom]

Quote

I heard 'drone', too.  I wouldn't think too much about their professions and their income, though.  At least the show bothered to give them jobs at all.  (Hello, This is Us.)  

Don't get me started on TIU. And I don't even watch it. ha

[luckyroll3]

15 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

 And, what's so sexy about Bonnie?  Maddie has it all over her IMO.

 

14 hours ago, tongueincheek said:

Zoe Kravitz is indeed equal parts her mom and dad. 

She's the perfect combo of both of her parents' sexiness. 

37 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I wasn't familiar with Avenue Q.  Interesting premise.  

 

28 minutes ago, Giesela said:

Avenue Q sounds good!  And was I guess evidenced by its awards. 

And your link explained a lot about why this is a controversy and a crusade for Madeline. 

 Not because of the language and homosexuality as stated but because raising your kids to think they are perfect and their world will be perfect is something everyone the town is very invested in.  If "they" had a healthy sense of humor they might go and laugh at themselves but Renata et al. don't seem to be able to do that.  Especially Renata simply because it is again Madeline rubbing everyones nose in it. 

Avenue Q is fantastic.  One of my favorite musicals.  I took a group of high schoolers to see it and they loved it...made some of them into theater lovers.  Lol!

I don't envy Jane having to have that conversation with her kid.  

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Is Disney On Ice Worth Strangling A Wife Over On Big Little Lies?

The effects of an absent father's sins are just one of the questions raised in Big Little Lies' third episode.

[teddysmom]

Quote

 Did you notice Maddy drives a Buick Enclave?  

They must be getting the music budget from GM/Buick. They show the Buick insignia at least 2-3 times an episode.  

Disney on Ice is only worth strangling someone over if they make you go. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by teddysmom

[Kbilly]

The abuse scenes are really hard for me to watch especially because Nicole Kidman is so fragile and delicate. 

I can't get over how much Zoe Kravitz looks like her mom. Growing up Lisa Bonet represented all that was sexy and cool--I find Bonnie sexy as hell but also, these people do blow everything up out of proportion so a simple dance is turned into some kind of strip tease.

You would think Renata would try to keep it down a little in that office...my goodness!

[DarkRaichu]

9 minutes ago, Kbilly said:

You would think Renata would try to keep it down a little in that office...my goodness!

Heh I thought both were loud, she was just a tad louder than her husband :D

ETA: not sure how his employees could maintain straight face when talking to him after that "broadcast" :P :P :P

Edited March 6, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[CleoCaesar]

4 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

And part of the controlling and abusive behavior is that the person is inconsistent; Celeste had no idea that Perry was going to be so angry about the kids going to Frozen. So the end result is walking on eggshells, never knowing when your partner is going to blow up over stupid shit, stuff that two weeks ago wouldn't be an issue. It is crazy-making.

Yes exactly. The most tense parts of the Perry/Celeste scenes are when something sets Perry off and his tone becomes increasingly more menacing and she tries to backtrack and then it ends with his hands around her neck.

The therapy session was perfect. It was pure manipulation on Perry's part and at first Celeste has this "Are you freaking kidding me?" expression when Perry starts the "poor me, I'm just so insecure, that's why I beat my wife" routine. But at the end of the session, she's reassuring him that she loves him and will never leave him! It's Gaslighting 101, making your partner doubt their sanity/perception of events and twist things so they think they're at fault. Perry has zero remorse, and I can't believe that some think he genuinely believes the shit he was spouting.

[Blakeston]

9 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

The therapy session was perfect. It was pure manipulation on Perry's part and at first Celeste has this "Are you freaking kidding me?" expression when Perry starts the "poor me, I'm just so insecure, that's why I beat my wife" routine. But at the end of the session, she's reassuring him that she loves him and will never leave him! It's Gaslighting 101, making your partner doubt their sanity/perception of events and twist things so they think they're at fault. Perry has zero remorse, and I can't believe that some think he genuinely believes the shit he was spouting.

Over and over again, Perry's anger has been set off by what he sees as attempts to cut him out of the family. I don't doubt for a second that he's afraid of losing his significant other - most possessive, violent creeps are afraid of exactly that. That's why they go to such great lengths to scare their partner into staying.

Do I think he was being 100% pure of heart at the therapy session? No, I'm sure there was some manipulation there. But you can manipulate someone and also express some truth about how you feel.

[humbleopinion]

Maddie felt the flush of victory when Renata threw the Hail Mary pass and offered the group an all expenses free trip to Disneyland with VIP behind the scenes treatment at the happiest Place on Earth if the group ditches San Jose and shows up to the birthday party.

I would be s/mad when I eventually found out that Maddie lost me a grand time in Anaheim.

Celeste paid for the party van so it wouldn't be entirely lame-o.

[teapot]

6 hours ago, teddysmom said:

I need to rewatch with CC on. I couldn't hear half of what they were saying.

right?  why is the talking so soft?  I had it like cranked up to a million and then the music was crazy loud!!

[teddysmom]

I thought it was me. I had the a/c on. But some of the convos were really soft, then it would get louder.  

[jenrising]

36 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Do I think he was being 100% pure of heart at the therapy session? No, I'm sure there was some manipulation there. But you can manipulate someone and also express some truth about how you feel.

This, so much. That's the most effective way to manipulate someone who knows you. And Celeste got the message. "Convince me you love me enough and I won't hurt you." Which is, of course, impossible. 

It's interesting because this relationship is classic abusive and all the reviews and talk I've seen about how different it is serves as a reminder that popular fiction narratives usually do a terrible job at these storylines. 

[tennisgurl]

This show is making me both desperately want to visit Monterey (so pretty!) and never want to go within 100 feet of it (the drama!). Still loving the show though. Its a lot more dramatic and in depth than I expected, as the early stuff I heard about it had it more as a soapy, campy, more high brow Desperate h]House Wives.

I totally figured that Ziggy was the child of a rape, and that the identity of said rapist would become a big mystery. The identity of the rapist...right now I'm calling Rennas husband. They made a mention of how the guy has a sex drive and is a little sleazy, despite his wealth and power, and he's just in the background enough that he might not be an obvious suspect, but not so in the background that he would come out of nowhere.

I'm really interested by Perry and Celeste, and I'm trying to figure out what their deal is. In some ways, Perry is a classic abuser (mood swings, possessiveness, buying Celeste presents and apologizing after he gets physical), but in other ways, he seems to honestly want to change, and he does seem to love family. I guess its possible to be both. He might just compartmentalize, with Loving Husband guy and Abusive Dick guy being totally different to him. Maybe he does want to change, but his anger issues just get the best of him. Maybe he grew up in an abusive environment, and that wrapped his view on himself and healthy relationships. Not that excuses what he does, but it might make him a more complex character than a mustache twirling Lifetime villain. That's why I hope he isn't the rapist of Jane. It just makes him too much of a villain for a show that seems to be going for nuance. Also, it seems like every time Perry starts getting physical, Celeste acts like this is the first time its ever happened, even when its obviously not the case. Maybe Celeste compartmentalizes even more than Perry?

Madeline is a great friend, but is a pretty big jerk to other people. I was actually kind of happy that Rennettas party was a success, even after she tried to mess it up. Poor kids just want to play and not get dragged into their parents bullshit.  

[nara]

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I heard 'drone', too.  I wouldn't think too much about their professions and their income, though.  At least the show bothered to give them jobs at all.  (Hello, This is Us.)  

One of Maddie's kids mentioned Avenue Q has F-words.  Maybe that's part of the outcry.  I would think a community theater would have some more adult content and some other kid targeted productions but I don't know much about it.  Maybe this one has historically had only family-friendly plays.  

Avenue Q is AWESOME! However, it has graphic sexual situations ("full puppet nudity" is how it was described on the sign), references to porn (one song is called "the internet is for porn"), masturbation, one night stands, etc.

Edited March 6, 2017 by nara

[humbleopinion]

Adding to the above I think Perry is also driven by fear.

He has the perfect wife, the perfect set of twin boys (heir and spare in one fell swoop), out of this world home and plenty of money so why does he abuse Celeste?

He is afraid of losing it all.

And he is a crazed psycho who is emboldened because he has had no consequences of his actions.

 Jane saw the bruises as Celeste furtively slid the sleeve down when at coffee.

But as the new kid in town, Jane didn't say anything.

Why does Celeste look so surprised and hurt when Perry snaps, gets angry and rough?

She HAS to convince herself that each abusive episode is the last.

If she doesn't rationalize his last episode of abusing her the last time is THE LAST TIME...she would have walked out the door with the boys sooner.

 In all fairness, Celeste doesn't want to lose her Big Sur life, either.

The seemingly perfect lustful marriage (Renata's wish), stay at home mom after giving up a successful law practice (Maddie's wish to make a difference in the world and be respected in the community) and having a spouse involved with the children (Jane, the single parent having to work as well as parent alone)is a sham.

On paper, Celeste and Perry have it all.

What they do have is a shameful, dirty secret of cyclical abuse.