S07.E12: Say Yes

[halgia]

Quote

The group scavenges for supplies; back in Alexandria, someone must make a morally challenging decision.

[TigerLynx]

Now these idiots are ripping off Zombieland.  That is so wrong.

If Sasha and Rosita get killed, I am going to be so angry.

I understand why Rosita is angry, but I wish she wasn't being so mean to Tara.

Tara, don't tell Rick about Oceanside.

Michonne, I love you, but Rick does not need to be in charge.

Besides, if you all do manage to take out Negan, if you don't kill all of Negan's top henchmen, they will be killing each other and you in their battle to be the new leader.  The other communities are going to want to chose their own leader.  Hill Top might want to get rid of Gregory and replace him with Maggie, but the Kingdom is happy having Zeke in charge.  You will be lucky if the garbage people don't turn on you.  So worry about the people that are left in your community and whether or not they want Rick in charge.

Edited March 6, 2017 by TigerLynx

[Samsnee]

Hey look it didn't take us 3 weeks to find out what happened to Rick. I guess that's progress?

[bosawks]

Plan your work and work your plan.  

Unless you're Rick Grimes, then just fucking squint and wing it....

[tennisgurl]

Its date night with Rick and Michonne! Candlelight dinners, winning carnival prizes, and cutting off TONS of heads!

Somewhere in the afterlife, Abraham is so regretting not suggesting a threesome.

Edited March 6, 2017 by tennisgurl

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Oh Sasha, that mission won't end well.

[Enero]

Maybe I've missed too many episodes but I don't care about Rosita or Sasha's rage against Negan. I understand it but just don't care. 

I think they tried to make this episode akin to 6x10 - funny, with some minor movement in the story, and some great moments for the Rick and Michonne. Unfortunately it didn't work for me. 

Most of the episode was snoozeworthy. Even the Rick/Michonne bonding moments didn't do much for me. The "sex" was way better in 6x10. 

The "intense" carnival scene wasn't intense at all, nothing like some of the great Walker moments from earlier seasons or even a couple episodes ago when they killed the walkers with the wire on the road. 

Michonne dropping her sword upon seeing Rick "die" seemed grossly OOC. I know she's in love but she's a fighter/warrior first. Sorry but I  think it would've been more in character for her to kick some Walker ass then break down dropping her sword. 

Not the best episode. This show is really just puttering along now. They really seemed to be beyond their creative genius and is now regressing. 

On a shallow note, Danai looked gorgeous tonight and Andrew Lincoln is still fine as hell. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Enero

[AimingforYoko]

10 minutes ago, bosawks said:

Plan your work and work your plan.  

Failing to plan is planning to fail. Isn't Rick familiar with John Wooden?

[Canada]

I don't understand why Rosita was mad at FPP.  He didn't talk her out of anything.  She tried to shoot Negan and fucked that up.  It's her own fault, not FPP's. 

[ShellsandCheese]

I'm so over Rosita. Girl is unhinged. Everyone has lost someone, you don't see Maggie going on suicide missions. Jeez. 

[mightysparrow]

I understand that Rosita is grieving and angry and devastated.  But she needs to woman-up and own her shit.  She chose Father Gabriel to unload on because she knew that Father G wouldn't call her out.  And one minute she's biting Sasha's head off and the next second she's asking her to join a suicide mission?  They might want to reconsider any plan that's formulated by two people who don't care if they live or die.

[nodorothyparker]

Rick's at least consistent in that everything he plans always goes sideways.  But he got something he wanted out of it, so he'll characterize it as a huge win.  It might have been a bigger win if he didn't immediate give almost all of the guns to the garbage people who in turn immediately demanded more.

Rosita is apparently just pissed at everyone who ever looked at her or breathed in her general direction who wasn't completely in kill 'em all mode from the very beginning.  While I'm generally okay with blaming FPP for whatever, she was really reaching there.

[shanndee]

Will something actually Happen next week, or is that too much for me to hope for?

[mightysparrow]

12 minutes ago, Enero said:

Maybe I've missed too many episodes but I don't care about Rosita or Sasha's rage against Negan. I understand it but just don't care. 

I think they tried to make this episode akin to 6x10 - funny, with some minor movement in the story, and some great moments for the Rick and Michonne. Unfortunately it didn't work for me. 

Most of the episode was snoozeworthy. Even the Rick/Michonne bonding moments didn't do much for me. The "sex" was way better in 6x10. 

The "intense" carnival scene wasn't intense at all, nothing like some of the great Walker moments from earlier seasons or even a couple episodes ago when they killed the walkers with the wire on the road. 

Michonne dropping her sword upon seeing Rick "die" seemed grossly OOC. I know she's in love but she's a fighter/warrior first. Sorry but I  think it would've been more in character for her to kick some Walker ass then break down dropping her sword. 

Not the best episode. This show is really just puttering along now. They really seemed to be beyond their creative genius and is now regressing. 

On a shallow note, Danai looked gorgeous tonight and Andrew Lincoln is still fine as hell. 

There's no way in hell the REAL Michonne would have given up like that.  She would have fought to stay alive if only to be able to get back to Carl and Judith.  She would want to be the one to tell them about how he died and she would want to be the one to care for them.  Making Rick the beginning and end of Michonne's world is disgusting.  She didn't give up when her own baby died, but she's going to give up the ghost over the man who was going to turn her over to be raped and tortured to death.  Bullshit.

[allyw]

I enjoyed the Rick and Michonne moments but this episode did not feel cohesive. And Rosita can go fuck off somewhere with her no-responsibility-taking ass.

[kj4ever]

So Rick doesn't mind being away from his kids in the middle of the apocalypse? Michonne just drops her sword because she thinks Rick is dead?

I knew fucking Richonne would kill their characters.  I knew it@

[AngelaHunter]

The big giant walker wearing an... evening gown(?) and was dispatched by Rosita was kind of cool in a hideous way.

There was zero suspense when Rick might have become walker chow. We all knew it was the poor deer, because any animal in the general vicinity of any members of CDB is quickly history. And a deer just stood there and let the walkers grab it? Now we have redshirt animals - too stupid to live.

I'm sorry to be gross, but R&M - all that gettin' it on, no bathing facilities and those tight, dirty clothes? The smell would outdo that of the walkers.

I was hoping we could skip the "Give cat. Give more" GPK this week but no such luck.

Tara, I'm sure you could think of better ways to entertain Judith - read her a story, play pattycake, teach her to say "Dada", draw pictures, etc, - than bitching to her and using bad language.

Edited March 6, 2017 by AngelaHunter

[nodorothyparker]

I doubt Judith cared at all.  She was doing that squatting/maintaining eye contact thing my toddlers always did when they were taking a dump.

[mightysparrow]

2 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

So Rick doesn't mind being away from his kids in the middle of the apocalypse? Michonne just drops her sword because she thinks Rick is dead?

I knew fucking Richonne would kill their characters.  I knew it@

Rick is pretty much the same.  He's always been a hot/cold type of parent.  One minute he can't move an inch without his kids, the next minute he doesn't seem to care his son has lost an eye.  I think Michonne is the character that's been gutted.  And it pisses me off, because if they felt they had to turn Michonne into Black Andrea, did they have to take away EVERYTHING that made Michonne such an incredible character?  Even if Rick wanted to stay out joyriding, there's no way Michonne would spend so much time away from Alexandria with a bat-swinging psychopath lurking around.

[AngelaHunter]

1 minute ago, mightysparrow said:

Even if Rick wanted to stay out joyriding,

I know! "Oh, let's ride around, seeing the sights and getting laid a little longer. Yeah, Negan may have come back and decided he wants a little baby girl of his own, or thought that he should have taken revenge for Carl's stupidity and is doing that right now, but oh, well. I guess we'll find all that out sooner or later. In the meantime, let's have some fun! Yeehaw!"

[mmecorday]

So Rick and Michonne fell into a high school, right? I'm guessing that the school's end of year carnival, like the one in "Grease," coincided with the ZA, someone got hungry while singing "chang chang changitty chang shoobop," it became a total bite fest, the National Guard was called in, but they were quickly overwhelmed by Walker T-Birds and Pink Ladies and it was the worst carnival ever.

Quote

The big giant walker wearing an... evening gown(?) and was dispatched by Rosita was kind of cool in a hideous way.

I'm thinking she was a candidate for "My 600-Pound Life" and was wearing a sheet or something.

Edited March 6, 2017 by mmecorday
Just adding my two cents

[NorthstarATL]

18 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

There's no way in hell the REAL Michonne would have given up like that.  She would have fought to stay alive if only to be able to get back to Carl and Judith.  She would want to be the one to tell them about how he died and she would want to be the one to care for them.  Making Rick the beginning and end of Michonne's world is disgusting.  She didn't give up when her own baby died, but she's going to give up the ghost over the man who was going to turn her over to be raped and tortured to death.  Bullshit.

That was really my only problem with the episode. Michonne has survival instincts that many other characters don't. I think she would have the capacity to fight on and compartmentalize and grieve, if need be, when the opportunity to do so presented itself. She's a more "fun" character now, but she's lost her edge, and that's not a good thing.

  I did also like that Richonne discussed the future. There was some of that when they first settled the prison, and then Alexandria, but such planning was set aside for practical reasons. Still, as the only two in our POV group with kids under their care (when they notice them), it makes sense for them to give the future and rebuilding society in whatever form some consideration.

   I don't think the writers have ever known what to do with Rosita, but she's just annoying now, and Abraham even dumped her, so her vendetta makes little real sense. Everyone SHOULD want to kill Negan, but her obsession seems to be in lieu of actual characterization.

[Artsda]

46 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

 

Michonne, I love you, but Rick does not need to be in charge.

He's the last one who should be in charge with another Ricktatorship. 

This episode felt like filler. It felt like Rick and Michonne go on vacation episode where they acted like they weren't in the middle of a war. Let's just hang out at the carnival and eat. The rest of them are fine if Negan shows up, the Negan war that he started. 

Rosita probably is a gonner soon. She's too reckless, angry and bitter to live. 

[Timetoread]

Ok I will be the sole supporter of Current Michonne.  I felt her reaction rang true.  She, as I'm sure do they all, has PTSD.  It was like I could see Andre run through her mind.  It was like "not again. No more."   I am so tired of the idea that because a woman is able to fight that she isn't even human.  Grimes 2.0 has given her a new lease on love.  She feels LOVE and is somebody's lover, not some fucking souless terminator who exists to be a glorified bodyguard.  I completely got it.  I liked Rick saying that no matter what they have to go on.

As for Rick not wanting to go back.  I got that too.  It is only with her that he feels free and peaceful and not like he is carrying the weight if the world.  This was his first vacation since he woke up.  Just like people don't want to leave their beach vacay to go back to work.  Rick wanted to stay a bit longer. 

[Raven1707]

The AMC live stream was incredibly touchy tonight, buffering like crazy, so I couldn't comment during the show and I haven't had a chance to read posts, but I just have to say, I loved this episode!

It almost makes up for last week's tedious installment of Motor Mouth. Almost.

[Mu Shu]

Why clean guns we must?  God, I hope the junkyard idiots are the first line troops and are enfiladed mercilessly.  Guns more need us.  Jars for us can get.  Fuck it Rick, mow  the lot down, get those Persian rugs cleaned, and give them to Negan.   These scalliwags will turn your ass, I guarantee it.  

[AngelaHunter]

14 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

 Just like people don't want to leave their beach vacay to go back to work.  Rick wanted to stay a bit longer. 

I agree it was a vacation from reality and I understand him not wanting to go back (particularly to the place where he suffered such humiliation) but people who go on real vacations don't leave their kids behind when they know a murderous psycho may come to call at any moment.

[Timetoread]

4 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I agree it was a vacation from reality and I understand him not wanting to go back (particularly to the place where he suffered such humiliation) but people who go on real vacations don't leave their kids behind when they know a murderous psycho may come to call at any moment.

Did you see The Visit?  JS. 

[BloatedGuppy]

Rick and Michonne scrounge, the episode.

GOOD

• That scene with Gabriel and Rosita was money. The show is good for one solidly dramatic scene per episode, it seems.
• The show really ran up its zombie budget. Some nice zombie effects, especially with the one in the car.
• I like some good post-apocalyptic scrounging, especially involving foodstuffs. 
• Tara finally comes to her senses.

BAD

• While it was a nice "light" episode, once again the breezy tone felt forced. Too much heavy drama has occurred and the stakes are way too high for these dippy interludes. I appreciate that you cannot keep a grim/oppressive air going without losing viewers, but you cannot force your comic relief or upbeat moments either. Clunky.
• Possibly controversial, but I continue to not buy Richonne in the slightest. The two actors simply do not have credible romantic chemistry, and their scenes together have consistently been Lincoln's worst. This is not to blame them, very few actors have good romantic chemistry and generally are forced to go through the motions. It's just particularly bad in this case, not least of which because...
• Michonne's established character was that of a hard bitten, truculent loner, and now for reasons of plot she's forced to be a soppy milquetoast who flies to pieces at the thought of losing Rick. This is not a welcome or appealing arc for her character. At best, it takes a strong and resourceful character and makes her weak in order to humanize her. At worst, it's the goddam writers having no idea what they're doing again and just writing characters this way and that with no concern for consistent characterization.
• The junkyard people are back, and just as insufferable and stupid as ever. Nothing will ever make this not the stupidest thing ever seen on this show, and a strong contender for one of the stupidest things presently on television.
• That CGI deer was HORRENDOUS. What on earth has happened to the show's CGI budget? Whoever they hired, they need to rethink it immediately. One of the actors in a deer costume might have been better.
• The "oh no Rick maybe died" fake out was painfully transparent. Show, you are not going to kill your titular character like that. Don't insult us. It's especially egregious after that Glenn/dumpster nonsense.
• And on that subject, you are not going to have two secondary characters SNIPE your multi-season villain, making all this "gathering of the tribes" plotting irrelevant. It's hard for audiences to invest in plans that are obviously doomed to failure because of show structure reasons. It's a bit 4th wall breaking.
• Once again, zombies are too easily dispatched (and with another montage, no less). The zombies are not at the center of the show but they are still essential to the setting and mood. When you make them an easily overcome joke, you not only diminish your setting, but you cheapen all previous drama and death involving them. Find a better way for characters to be badasses than mowing down zombie hordes without effort.

[xaxat]

I know that Rick has a pre-apocalypse attachment to his revolver. But post-apocalypse? He needs something with larger capacity and faster reload.

Why does Rick believe that the junkyard people can actually handle firearms? They have trouble forming simple sentences.

[mamadrama]

I am not sure what made Rick so quick to even trust the garbage pail kids. I mean, it was like, "Hey, my name's Rick. You don't know me but we have to fight these bad guys. You in?" Then they order him to bring them weapons and he's all, "Sure!"

I mean, for someone who has a hard time trusting people, he was totally ready to get down and dirty with the folks that stole all their food and their preacher. 

[tennisgurl]

I can see why people would feel weird about Rick and Michonne, especially Michonne, becoming a bit more soft, at least with each other. I do agree that it would be more in character for Michonne to go nuts and start killing walks if she thought Rick was dead, BUT her reaction doesn't really bother me that much, and I actually really like their relationship. She had finally started seeing a possible future for herself and her family, and then she saw it all disappear in an instant. I can buy it alright. I liked their whole adventure. It was just nice to see someone smile on this show other than the constant shit eating smile Negan always wears.

I've enjoyed bitchy pissed off Rosita, but she was getting on my nerves tonight. The actress is doing a good job though, and I did like her scene with Gabe. Hope her and Sasha don't run off and get themselves killed.

Loved how the bartering with the Garbage Pail kids all came down to the kitty cat!

[AngelaHunter]

7 minutes ago, BloatedGuppy said:

Possibly controversial, but I continue to not buy Richonne in the slightest. The two actors simply do not have credible romantic chemistry, and their scenes together have consistently been Lincoln's worst.

I couldn't agree more. He does his worst acting in scenes with her.  Some actors just can't "do" romance. Maybe he's one of those.

Quote

That CGI deer was HORRENDOUS. What on earth has happened to the show's CGI budget? Whoever they hired, they need to rethink it immediately. One of the actors in a deer costume might have been better.

It was, but still better than the stuffed animals they use when they kill one. They look like styrofoam forms covered in cheap fabric and always made me cringe.

Quote

The "oh no Rick maybe died" fake out was painfully transparent.

HUGE eye-roller that was.

Quote

The junkyard people are back, and just as insufferable and stupid as ever. Nothing will ever make this not the stupidest thing ever seen on this show, and a strong contender for one of the stupidest things presently on television.

This is just too true.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

A deer.  A fucking deer.  "Please excuse me, my dear walkers, but I need to pay my bed warmer back by ignoring your immediate threat and bagging some carcass."   That was so ludicrous & idiotically stupid, I almost hoped and prayed it was Rick getting eaten.  But it was obvious it wasn't him.  Try to fool me once (ie, Glenn and the dumpster), TWD, but not going to do it again.  Michonne should have slapped him after the walkers were down and yelled at him; "Quit clowning around, Rick!!"

And about that deer, they are some of the easily skittish animals on the planet, but that one almost - and then did indeed - let a pack of walkers get on it without even the slightest twitch.  Seems humans are not the only ones who lost all ability to summon common sense when the 'world ended'.

They sure are trying to telegraph Michonne dying soon, aren't they?  I think its too obvious to be true.  I slightly expected her to get bit, before Rick made his heroic reappearance.  I would say the same of Rick (telegraphing his death) but the Superman-ish main character ain't going anywhere until AL himself wants out (& maybe not even then).

Rosita can go anytime soon, AFAIC.  She's nice to look at, but so done with her selfish and suicidal attitude.  Must be hard, being the only person who lost anybody to Negan and his douche band... and it was the guy who dumped her for someone else, at that.  Ok, so Dipshit Backstabber Spencer got it too, but he was just a convenient piece of ass.  Seems they are taking Sasha down that path, again, as well.

So nice to see the "Yoda speak, we do" Dumpster Divers again.  Not.

[CatMomma]

1 hour ago, mightysparrow said:

There's no way in hell the REAL Michonne would have given up like that.  She would have fought to stay alive if only to be able to get back to Carl and Judith.  She would want to be the one to tell them about how he died and she would want to be the one to care for them.  Making Rick the beginning and end of Michonne's world is disgusting.  She didn't give up when her own baby died, but she's going to give up the ghost over the man who was going to turn her over to be raped and tortured to death.  Bullshit.

THIS! Damn that pissed me off. Michonne lost her child and lover, then became a warrior who survived on her own. But, the idea of losing Rick turned her into a catatonic mess?  The hell? And, neither one of them bothered to mention Carl or Judith? Just...ugh. This show. 

[Mu Shu]

Tara must be dying soon, right?  That has to be the only reason this sub par character and actor is getting any screen time.  Blah blah we will fight, yadda yadda wish Rosita would drop your goofy ass like a sack of shit.  Even the baby actor was out acting her, just by staring and probably pooping her pants. 

[CatMomma]

5 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

A deer.  A fucking deer.  "Please excuse me, my dear walkers, but I need to pay my bed warmer back by ignoring your immediate threat and bagging some carcass."   That was so ludicrous & idiotically stupid, I almost hoped and prayed it was Rick getting eaten.  But it was obvious it wasn't him.  Try to fool me once (ie, Glenn and the dumpster), TWD, but not going to do it again.  Michonne should have slapped him after the walkers were down and yelled at him; "Quit clowning around, Rick!!"

And about that deer, they are some of the easily skittish animals on the planet, but that one almost - and then did indeed - let a pack of walkers get on it without even the slightest twitch.  Seems humans are not the only ones who lost all ability to summon common sense when the 'world ended'.

 

I felt really bad for the deer. She managed to survive carefree, until fucking Rick showed up. I swear the look on her face when she saw Michonne was "Oh, shit! Not you guys!"

[BloatedGuppy]

1 minute ago, Mu Shu said:

Tara must be dying soon, right?  That has to be the only reason this sub par character and actor is getting any screen time.  Blah blah we will fight, yadda yadda wish Rosita would drop your goofy ass like a sack of shit.  Even the baby actor was out acting her, just by staring and probably pooping her pants. 

I feel like Masterson used to be better at this character. Not sure what went wrong. Too many body thetans, I guess. :P

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I know it played out on screen differently, but this is how I saw the 'aftermath' van scene between Richonne;

"If I die, you'll take over and lead our people"
"Rick, I dropped my head slicer and waited to get eaten when I thought you were eaten"
"Aw shucks, Michonne, thangs and stuff like that'll happen.  But I know you'll do better next time and the times after that."
"You're right.  I'll probably run right into their hungry embrace of hands and teeth next time"
"That's my girl"

[Pete Martell]

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

There's no way in hell the REAL Michonne would have given up like that.  She would have fought to stay alive if only to be able to get back to Carl and Judith.  She would want to be the one to tell them about how he died and she would want to be the one to care for them.  Making Rick the beginning and end of Michonne's world is disgusting.  She didn't give up when her own baby died, but she's going to give up the ghost over the man who was going to turn her over to be raped and tortured to death.  Bullshit.

She went on autopilot after her baby died, consumed by shock and grief. Only after a lengthy period of time did she start to address those feelings. She's a different person now. I don't believe she would give up or die without Rick, and for all the generic puffery in writing that type of scene, I'm not sure the show actually feels she would either. I think it was just a momentary response. 

With that said, the man who packed her off with Merle has been gone a long time. If he was still like that she wouldn't go anywhere near him.

20 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

Tara must be dying soon, right?  That has to be the only reason this sub par character and actor is getting any screen time.  Blah blah we will fight, yadda yadda wish Rosita would drop your goofy ass like a sack of shit.  Even the baby actor was out acting her, just by staring and probably pooping her pants. 

People have been saying that from the start with Tara. She's been around for 3 seasons now, which is an eternity for a B or C-level character, so I assume she probably will be toast, but my response to her has always been what it is now - I like her, I like what she brings to the show (individuality, believability, humor). I'll miss her when she goes. She's not a big character and she shouldn't be, but this type of character, who is a break away from the interchangeable angst machines, is one of the main reasons I haven't completely stopped watching. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Pete Martell

[Pete Martell]

28 minutes ago, CatMomma said:

THIS! Damn that pissed me off. Michonne lost her child and lover, then became a warrior who survived on her own. But, the idea of losing Rick turned her into a catatonic mess?  The hell? And, neither one of them bothered to mention Carl or Judith? Just...ugh. This show. 

She was a warrior before her child and lover died. She was a catatonic mess after she lost them. She said as much herself, and it was also shown in flashbacks. She was broken and mostly just staying alive because that was her mind's only way of coping, to the point of even keeping her boyfriend and his friend as pets. She didn't stay alive at that point because she was a BAMF surviving against all odds. She was a shell and eventually learned to heal. I imagine the same would be true if she lost Rick. The writing here was cheesy but I never got the impression that she is now weak and can't live without Rick, outside of that moment that hit her hard.

[Pete Martell]

1 hour ago, BloatedGuppy said:

 

• Possibly controversial, but I continue to not buy Richonne in the slightest. The two actors simply do not have credible romantic chemistry, and their scenes together have consistently been Lincoln's worst. This is not to blame them, very few actors have good romantic chemistry and generally are forced to go through the motions. It's just particularly bad in this case, not least of which because...
• Michonne's established character was that of a hard bitten, truculent loner, and now for reasons of plot she's forced to be a soppy milquetoast who flies to pieces at the thought of losing Rick. This is not a welcome or appealing arc for her character. At best, it takes a strong and resourceful character and makes her weak in order to humanize her. At worst, it's the goddam writers having no idea what they're doing again and just writing characters this way and that with no concern for consistent characterization.

Frankly I'm always surprised when I find any other fans outside of a few who actually like the pairing, so I doubt you'll find much disagreement, especially not here. Personally I've always bought them more than most couples on this show (the one exception for me being Maggie and Glenn, but then I know a lot of people here hated that pairing too), and when I have issues with them it's the writing more than the chemistry.

I never saw Michonne that way, not even during the time that so many fans bashed her nonstop for not being happy and smiley enough. Michonne never wanted to be a loner and she always gave her heart and took risks, even when she was at her most checked out. I find the idea of her being some dour, isolated person that so many want her to be more unappealing than her being happy or vulnerable.

[Nashville]

57 minutes ago, BloatedGuppy said:

• Michonne's established character was that of a hard bitten, truculent loner, and now for reasons of plot she's forced to be a soppy milquetoast who flies to pieces at the thought of losing Rick. This is not a welcome or appealing arc for her character. At best, it takes a strong and resourceful character and makes her weak in order to humanize her. At worst, it's the goddam writers having no idea what they're doing again and just writing characters this way and that with no concern for consistent characterization.
• That CGI deer was HORRENDOUS. What on earth has happened to the show's CGI budget? Whoever they hired, they need to rethink it immediately. One of the actors in a deer costume might have been better.

Total agreement about the bad CGI deer - what, is CGI the current rotation for one of the interns?  About Michonne, though....

You are totally correct that Michonne's established character was that of a hard bitten, truculent loner; that persona, however, she abandoned shortly after the collapse of the Prison.  If you'll recall Michonne actually attempted to go back to the person she was before; upon discovering Rick and Carl's tracks she immediately took a path at right angles to them, disarmed (literally) and de-jawed a couple of new camouflage walkers and started hoofing it with a herd.  Seeing her own zombie doppelganger shocked Michonne out of dropping back into her own life, however; she ended up beautifully hacking the herd into little zombie nuggets, then backtracked and found Rick and Carl.  Michonne rejected her old loner life in favor of a new people-inclusive future.

 

6 minutes ago, CatMomma said:

THIS! Damn that pissed me off. Michonne lost her child and lover, then became a warrior who survived on her own. But, the idea of losing Rick turned her into a catatonic mess?  The hell? And, neither one of them bothered to mention Carl or Judith? Just...ugh. This show. 

I really really really REALLY doubt Michonne's initial warrior transformation was an instantaneous process.

Have to say - I'm more than a little perturbed about the duality of perception regarding Michonne. 

For the past couple of seasons I've read multiple posts about how Michonne is such a complex strong-yet-sensitive character that her current relationship with Rick is anomalous, in that it inappropriately pushes her into a two-dimensional leading-man's-lady role.

Yet Michonne reacts with shock and horror for a couple of seconds when someone with whom she's deeply emotionally involved appears to be getting ripped to shreds before her eyes - and she's immediately castigated for not reacting like a katana-equipped robot.

Which is it?  Soulless killing machine, or emotionally vulnerable human?  Only one pick per person, please.  :P

[catrox14]

9 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

She was a warrior before her child and lover died. She was a catatonic mess after she lost them. She said as much herself, and it was also shown in flashbacks. She was broken and mostly just staying alive because that was her mind's only way of coping, to the point of even keeping her boyfriend and his friend as pets. She didn't stay alive at that point because she was a BAMF surviving against all odds. She was a shell and eventually learned to heal. I imagine the same would be true if she lost Rick. The writing here was cheesy but I never got the impression that she is now weak and can't live without Rick, outside of that moment that hit her hard.

I thought Danai played that moment so beautifully.  I saw her immediately fall back into that broken woman we met via flashbacks. I didn't take that as Michonne being weak, but immediately being sent right back in time to when she lost her little boy and her boyfriend.

I mean all of them are pretty much in PTSD land and IMO Michonne just shut down. I think she would have had the same reaction in a slightly different way if she believed Carl or Judith was dead. That's her family now. I dunno, I thought it was totally in character and IMO believable.

And that makes her a three-dimensional layered character who is both a badass and capable of allowing herself to feel love and be a little vulnerable.

Edited March 6, 2017 by catrox14

[BellyLaughter]

I keep finding my mind wondering trying to work out how Rosita gets her lips done during an apocalypse that has destroyed humanity but Coral can't get a f'ing haircut or Daryl a simple shampoo? 

PS I enjoyed this episode more than most this season....

[Pete Martell]

3 minutes ago, Nashville said:

You are totally correct that Michonne's established character was that of a hard bitten, truculent loner; that persona, however, she abandoned shortly after the collapse of the Prison.  If you'll recall Michonne actually attempted to go back to the person she was before; upon discovering Rick and Carl's tracks she immediately took a path at right angles to them, disarmed (literally) and de-jawed a couple of new camouflage walkers and started hoofing it with a herd.  Seeing her own zombie doppelganger shocked Michonne out of dropping back into her own life, however; she ended up beautifully hacking the herd into little zombie nuggets, then backtracked and found Rick and Carl.  Michonne rejected her old loner life in favor of a new people-inclusive future.

Quote

I really really really REALLY doubt Michonne's initial warrior transformation was an instantaneous process.

Have to say - I'm more than a little perturbed about the duality of perception regarding Michonne. 

For the past couple of seasons I've read multiple posts about how Michonne is such a complex strong-yet-sensitive character that her current relationship with Rick is anomalous, in that it inappropriately pushes her into a two-dimensional leading-man's-lady role.

Not to mention that the Michonne we briefly saw in pre-ZA flashbacks (patchwork as they were) was a happy, effervescent woman, in both her fashion and personality. We also saw her reacting with shock and despair in those as these flashbacks mixed with the moments where she learned about her son dying.

Michonne was never a soulless badass or a somber killing machine broken and weakened by a man's love. She loved with all her heart and it destroyed her to lose the people precious to her. She broke down mentally and it was the inherent goodness and need for companionship and helping people inherent in her that led her to keep Andrea alive and take huge risks for Andrea. She then further returned to who she once was when she connected with the prison family, especially Rick, Carl and Judith.

Sometimes I wonder what reaction would be if we saw full flashback episodes of her pre-ZA and of her losing her partner and child. I have a feeling a lot of people would expect her to be something out of an old Western, and believe anything else is an attempt to degrade her or weaken her. 

I get why people would not care for her pairing with Rick, or be concerned about the show throwing her into romantic tropes, but I just have to pause when I see the idea that her baby and the man she loved dying in grotesque ways made her some sort of badass warrior goddess and that any variation from this means she's been ruined.

[Dobian]

Another boring filler episode and good example of why this show needs to go with 13 episode seasons.

The carnival reminded me of Zombieland.  I was waiting for Woody to show up with a box of Twinkies.

Hey, lets run around a zombie-infested carnival like total idiots to create suspense.

Glenn's death fake-out redux with Rick.  Like he was really going to die in such a meaningless and stupid way with the whole Negan showdown coming.

Michonne (who's in the trunk) and Rick magically make it to the top of the car when there's zombies piled all around it.  Okay, sure.  Edit: Missed the sunroof.  Still, why did they put themselves in that spot in the first place?  Dumb.

Yay more Rosita.  With special guest star Tara.  Continuing this year's theme of featuring all the characters no one cares about.

This season can't end soon enough.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Dobian

[Pete Martell]

Just now, Dobian said:

Another boring filler episode and good example of why this show needs to go with 13 episode seasons.

The show would be filler even with 13. Most shows are filler even with 5-6-7. It's just a consequence of how lazy and padded most of today's writing is. 

[whiskeyandfeet]

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate the junkyard gang. Why the motherflip do they talk like Yoda?

[catrox14]

I totally thought Rick and Michonne got married in this episode. Like when he said that he didn't really want to lead but he wanted to be with her and she said yes I want that too.

Boom. Done. Married IMO. (I have armor)