S05.E11: Fire and Rain

[ElectricBoogaloo]

MID-SEASON FINALE!

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Juliette helps Maddie navigate the wave of attention she receives after her performance at the CMT Music Awards; Zach demands the masters from Rayna and Deacon's unfinished album.

Promo:

[Primetimer]

Deacon can't complete his and Rayna's work on his own. Turns out he doesn't have to.

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[NYGirl]

I don't know about you guys but I want that album

Maddie was tolerable for a change and I love the way she's treating Daphne.

Poor Deacon. 

I love Avery

Scarlett?   I have no words

[Artsda]

Where the heck was Tandy? Deacon shouldn't have been the one in all those Hiway 65 meetings. He has no clue how to run a business or what he's doing. 

Avery was amazing this episode. 

Scarlett  was Scarlett . I liked Juliet calling her out about projecting her feelings onto Maddie. 

[dbell1]

It's turning into the Maddie Show. And I'm not here for that. There's a very talented cast of amazing singers and we get HER? Daphne lost her mother too, a mom who she's never run away from, refused to see, or lied about in court, but it's all about the entitled one. Ugh. Episodes better change after the break.

Juliette can take a seat. Several of them. There's nurturing and then there's taking a teen to NYC on a fame whore tour. 

I cried a lot tonight, Charles Esten was killing it in every scene. Jonathan was all kinds of awesome too.

And I doubt Highway 65 was in that much trouble. Rayna's back catalog would be selling through the roof. And if she wasn't dead, would the duo release really be such a money maker?

I laughed out loud at "I'm pregnant". Granny is going to be a mom? Lord help us with those wardrobe choices. 

[Lady Calypso]

Ah, so I get it. Juliette's new role is being Maddie's agent/manager. Great. On the plus side, Maddie was mostly fine; it's just the circumstances that bug me, and I think they'll always bug me. Poor Daphne for not getting the chance to be on TV. Juliette may be a changed person, but I did not agree with her taking Maddie out on the road so soon after her mother's death. 

Scarlett is a damn mess. Didn't she just sleep with Damien around the time of Rayna's car crash? So if she's more than two weeks along, then it's definitely Gunnar's. I'm not really sure why we're ending the mid season finale on this cliffhanger, like we're supposed to care. 

Poor Will; he's relegated to being Zach's assistant. 

The moments with Deacon have been really strong, so that's what has been keeping me with the show a little bit longer. 

Avery's great, he really is. 

[Runningwild]

Is anyone else having a hard time dealing with Rayna's death and   William's death (not to mention Jack's impending death) on This Is Us)?

Edited March 14, 2017 by Runningwild

[Clemgo3165]

12 minutes ago, dbell1 said:

It's turning into the Maddie Show. And I'm not here for that. There's a very talented cast of amazing singers and we get HER? Daphne lost her mother too, a mom who she's never run away from, refused to see, or lied about in court, but it's all about the entitled one. Ugh. Episodes better change after the break.

I really felt for Daphne there. It wasn't just Maddie singing, they all did, and then Maddie gets pulled out because she's 17 and pretty. No disrespect to Lennon, she has a pretty voice, but Maisy is the more powerful of the two. Hope Daphne gets to rule the world some day.

[luna1122]

Tonite's episode was incredibly cheesy but damned if that 'coming together as a family' thing between people who are not technically family, as the whole cast assembled to finish Rayna's album...well, damn, it almost made me cry.

Juliette looked really pretty tonite. Avery looked even prettier.

Shut up, Scarlett.

[pattycat]

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

Where the heck was Tandy? Deacon shouldn't have been the one in all those Hiway 65 meetings. He has no clue how to run a business or what he's doing. 

Avery was amazing this episode. 

Scarlett  was Scarlett . I liked Juliet calling her out about projecting her feelings onto Maddie. 

He knows a great deal about music, and he's Rayna's widower, why shouldn't he be there?

I don't believe that either Rayna or Luke Wheeler had any particular business experience, yet they both became Label Heads. 

Curious, why the intense dislike of Deacon?  

[CrystalMoon]

Scarlett was a bitch to Gunnar, though that's not a surprise as that's how she's been all season long. I just wish Gunnar would reject her unequivcally and move on. 

Avery was amazing tonight. Why can't he get his own storyline?

When Juliette volunteres to be Maddie's agent, I cried a little. This means that Maddie will become the next big thing, and I can't watch that. I'll be gone before I EVER watch that happen. I need to see Juliette work toward her own career. And I need to see Maddie disappear, but I suppose that won't happen. SIgh

Edited March 10, 2017 by CrystalMoon

[WhosThatGirl]

So.. Scarlett and Gunner are Rayna and Deacon 2.0. Yuck.

Why is this now the Maddie show?

I don't think I care anymore.

[Aulty]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Scarlett is a damn mess. Didn't she just sleep with Damien around the time of Rayna's car crash? So if she's more than two weeks along, then it's definitely Gunnar's. I'm not really sure why we're ending the mid season finale on this cliffhanger, like we're supposed to care.

The timing is a head scratcher - how could it be Damien's? I'd put ten quid on it being twins, one is Gunnar's, one is Damien's? Is Damien even still around?

AND: Poor Gunnar, he has been through the whole 'You got a child - oops, no, sorry, its not yours, its your brothers' crap before (because the writers have already squeezed everything from the soap opera scripting handbook into the first couple of seasons).

Please, if you have to make Maddie the center of attention, tone down a notch or, better, two. She is bloody annyoing.

[GaT]

Why don't they just change the name of the show from "Nashville" to "Maddie"?

3 hours ago, Artsda said:

Where the heck was Tandy? Deacon shouldn't have been the one in all those Hiway 65 meetings. He has no clue how to run a business or what he's doing. 

 

They reminded us she exists, now they don't need her anymore.

3 hours ago, dbell1 said:

Juliette can take a seat. Several of them. There's nurturing and then there's taking a teen to NYC on a fame whore tour. 

 

Seriously, how could she possibly think that was a good idea?

I can't believe they're having Scarlett have a baby, especially since it wasn't that long ago when we had the Juliette pregnancy storyline.

[EuropeanGirl]

5 hours ago, Artsda said:

Scarlett  was Scarlett . I liked Juliet calling her out about projecting her feelings onto Maddie. 

I don't know if my hormones are to blame for coming here to bitch about Scarlett, but she just doesn't get a pass from me because she's all caring regarding the two girls. Even when Juliette was wrong, I hate Scarlett so much for being awful to Gunnar, that I'm always gonna be on the other team. (not to mention that I'm always team Juliette :) ) Juliette was right for calling her out on it. She acts like you can make it anytime just because Rayna gave her another shot with Gunnar the second time around. That doesn't happen that quick or often for everybody. What bugs me is that it's always the back and forth with her about every little thing about their career. Don't get me wrong, leaving them is a thing to think about, but with her it's always something. If you're not completely in or ready to give your 100%, then just say so.

5 hours ago, dbell1 said:

It's turning into the Maddie Show. And I'm not here for that. There's a very talented cast of amazing singers and we get HER? Daphne lost her mother too, a mom who she's never run away from, refused to see, or lied about in court, but it's all about the entitled one. Ugh. Episodes better change after the break.

I agree. She, in my opinion, lost her mother at an even worse period than Maddie. Why wouldn't they explore that more? Is Maddie getting more screen time because she's older, therefore, we should be more interested in her storyline (or her story should be more interesting)? I wasn't okay with the fact that she didn't have a problem with going on without Daphne to promote herself. Are they still a duo or does she write with Daphne, and I quote, for her album? I really hope they will include Daphne more and that it won't become a Maddie show, because we're seriously close to having it.

3 hours ago, CrystalMoon said:

Scarlett was a bitch to Gunnar, though that's not a surprise as to how she's been all season long. I just wish Gunnar would reject her unequivcally and move one. Who dars what Scarlett thiks about that?

When Juliette volunteres to be Maddie's agent, I cried a little. This measn Maddie will becom the next big thing, and I can't watch that. I'm gone before I EVER watch that happen.

When she started to speak, I thought she was gonna say 'But that doesn't mean we're back together'. I love that her zero emotions towards Gunnar match her zero class in not knowing the baby daddy. I'm sorry that Gunnar didn't say to her that she can do whatever and that he's only there for the tour. I know he'd never do that because of many reasons, but the way she told him the information...ugh, her tone and the stand-offish attitude are annoying the hell out of me! She acts like she's above him or better than him!! I wish he'd say he's done with the whole band thing and go do something with Will and Avery.

As much as I love this show, if the show starts revolving around Maddie becoming the next great thing and Juliette's role is all about being her assistant, I'm sorry to say that I will tune out for sure. I never thought I'd be even remotely close to doing it with Nashville, though.

Edited March 10, 2017 by EuropeanGirl

[CrystalMoon]

One thing that really bothers me about this show is how little attention they give to Juliette and Avery's relationship. Sure, there was a conversation between them back in the beginning of the season where Avery then carried Juliette off to bed. But since then? Nothing. You know they are the only couple on the show who we haven't seen in bed together. Every single other couple, including Will and Kevin, have had a nice snuggly/romantic/hot bed scene. But not them.

Also, both Juliette and Avery have started wearing their wedding rings again? WTF?!!! They're a divorced couple. And yes, they're back together, but they are not remarried. (Unless that happened without our knowledge too.) So why haven't we seen a conversation where they decide to wear their rings again? Isn't that kind of a BIG deal? As a viewer, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think. That J&A were never actually divorced, and we should forget about Season 4? That they both decided to start wearing their rings on a whim and it's only a coincidence that they're both doing it? That they had another quick wedding at the justice of the peace? 

To me, this lack of explanation for something so important just shows how the writers are solely focused on Maddie, Deacon, and now Daphne. They write in little scenes for other characters, as if they have to becuase they're stuck with them, but there's no care involved, no concern for getting things right.

Sometimes I feel like the new showrunners decided to do Nashville because they liked Rayna and her family, and they were forced to take on all the other characters too. But it didn't mean they had to write for them. At least not very much.

Edited March 10, 2017 by CrystalMoon

[piratewench]

Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a different show - lol.

I don't see this as the Maddie show.  I see her becoming more prominent now that she's older, but that makes sense to me.  I was glad to see her realize how she was coming across in New York.  It shows some maturity she's been lacking.

I didn't understand Juliette to mean she wanted to be Maddie's manager.  She even said, at one point, that Glenn or Bucky or someone like that could handle all the details.  She wants to be Maddie's mentor, not her manager.  She said that too.

Deacon killed me.  Chip definitely has been bringing it these last few episodes.  Not that I haven't loved him all along, but damn, this stuff has been so real.  When he ended up distraught on the floor, I was in tears.  I've been right there, on the floor, grieving for a lost loved one with a pain I thought would never go away.  Simply heartbreaking.

The ending was sort of cheesy, but in a really heartfelt way that I loved.  And I really liked the look backs Deacon was doing, while he went through Rayna's memory suitcase.  And including her in finishing the album by using her scratch tracks was a nice touch.

One complaint I had, though, was when Deacon was reading through Rayna's journal during the wedding video and she says something about feeling like she was nineteen and locking eyes with him for the first time.  I hate when they get those little details wrong, and it's not just this group of writers - the last group did too, often.  It was established, during season 1, that Deacon and Rayna were together when Lamar kicked her out of the house at sixteen.  They've established a timeline, over the years, that indicates that, so I hate when they change that around.

Edited March 10, 2017 by piratewench

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Zach can fuck right off with his "this is all for Rayna" crap. I don't believe for one second that he's trying to get this album out because he gives a rat's ass about Rayna's legacy. He is just trying to strike while the iron is hot because he's opportunistic. I get why he's doing it, but first of all why was he only able to say that to Will and not to Deacon? Secondly, he should have some respect for Deacon. HIS WIFE JUST DIED, FOR FUCK'S SAKE. Zack admitted to Will that people mourn differently, so why can't he accept that Deacon's way of mourning is not to work on an album that he wrote with Rayna right before she died? Zach asking Will to talk Deacon into working on the album was ridiculous.

Yes, people will buy Rayna's album as soon as it's available, but you know that they'll buy it whether it comes out tomorrow or a year from now so BACK OFF, Zach!

When Deacon started listening to some of the music he and Rayna had recorded,I was afraid that he was going to start deleting tracks just to keep them out of Zach's hands.

Part of me loves that when Maddie was on tv, they introduced her as Maddie Jaymes. I hated that Trevor and that other guy pressured Maddie into singing again. I was with Maddie - watch it on youtube. I was hoping that Juliette would step in and tell them that Maddie wasn't ready to sing again, but of course Juliette just wanted to get her stage mom on. I was rolling my eyes when Juliette told Maddie, "I have a very special connection to you because of your mom." Funny how that connection through Rayna doesn't exist for Daphne since Juliette never notices her. While Juliette and Zach are not wrong to want to take advantage of the circumstances regarding Maddie's sudden exposure and Rayna's album, I disagree that Maddie has to do anything right now. She is Rayna's daughter and she can sing. Even if she waits ten years, people will be curious enough about her that she will get publicity whenever she decides to release an album or even a single.

Poor Daphne - not only is she mourning her mother's death, but she feels left out because the tv shows only wanted Maddie. When Maddie came home and Daphne hugged her, I thought FINALLY. And then Maddie made it clear she wanted to talk to Deacon so Daphne said, "I'll go upstairs."

Gunnar can also STFU. Scarlett is not being flaky or irresponsible. Her family is suffering. She is trying to do the right thing and take care of her uncle, her cousin, and Daphne. And Scarlett herself is still mourning. There's no reason she HAS to go on tour right now.

Hee, when Juliette said that she would take Maddie to New York and Avery could watch Cadence, I was really hoping Avery and Cadence would move into Rayna's house while Juliette was gone. I know there was no good reason for that since Juliette has a perfectly good house but so what?

19 minutes ago, piratewench said:

I didn't understand Juliette to mean she wanted to be Maddie's manager.  She even said, at one point, that Glenn or Bucky or someone like that could handle all the details.  She wants to be Maddie's mentor, not her manager. 

Juliette's exact words: "I think Glenn or somebody else can handle the boring stuff. When it comes to guidance, I want to manage your career. I want to take you all the way to the top."

[Sandman]

Oops. Double post.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Sandman

[Sandman]

8 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

So.. Scarlett and Gunner are Rayna and Deacon 2.0. Yuck.

Poor Gunnar. I can't tell if he's the Deacon or the Teddy in the Rayna Jaymes Redux storyline. Gunnar already went through one plot of trying to raise a kid who turned out not to be his; how is it more interesting when the babydaddy competition is Damian the Dolt? How can Scarlett be so kind and principled with her family, and such a destructive, uncaring fool with Gunnar?

Juliette may be changing, but, then again, maybe not. I keep hoping that Zach ends up being a fairly decent person, but his capacity for self-pity may rank with Gunnar's or even Deacon's. ("No one likes me 'cause I'm rich! It's not my fault I'm always right and everyone is dumber than I am! It's so unfair!")

Everyone should just shut up and do what Avery says. All the time. I thought the group recording session was beautifully done. Charles Esten frickin' kills me.

[Sandman]

6 hours ago, EuropeanGirl said:

Juliette was right for calling her out on it. She acts like you can make it anytime just because Rayna gave her another shot with Gunnar the second time around.

Except that Juliette herself has had more than one shot/comeback.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Sandman
Sorry for the multi-post nonsense.

[piratewench]

I still think her intent was to be a mentor, not a manager like Glenn.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Absurda]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had trouble with the Scarlett pregnancy timeline.  The only time she slept with director guy was the day of Rayna's accident.  For it to be his baby and her to know about the pregnancy it would have to have been a couple months ago, but that doesn't fit with the rest of the timeline.  Ugh!  But, I'm sure the writers don't worry about logic in the same way the viewers do.

Quote

I disagree that Maddie has to do anything right now. She is Rayna's daughter and she can sing. Even if she waits ten years, people will be curious enough about her that she will get publicity whenever she decides to release an album or even a single.

 

I thought that, too, when Juliette was going on about only having one shot.  Though I can understand that from her own experience that was true.  She only had one shot to get to the top; I think come backs are easier when you’ve already been on top then when you’ve never been there.

I did get a Mama Rose vibe from Juliette pushing Maddie like that, but that is consistent with who Juliette is.  In her mind, you whole life can be coming down around your ears but when it’s time to go on, you leave that in the wings and go on.  Juliette is very good at compartmentalizing that sort of thing.

Quote

When Maddie came home and Daphne hugged her, I thought FINALLY. And then Maddie made it clear she wanted to talk to Deacon so Daphne said, "I'll go upstairs."

I caught that, too.  I felt for Daphne, she really does seem like the 3rd wheel in that family.  The only one who has been there for her to help her through her grief has been Scarlett; though I think Scarlett in a lot of ways is using “they need me” to hide from her own life. 

 

Regarding the Zach/Deacon issue, I see both sides of the coin there.  But I’m more on Zach’s side.  Yes, it may seem cold, but Zach is a business man running a business.  Someone has to be the pragmatist here.  A lot of people, not just Deacon and the girls or artists on the label but regular employees, too, rely on H65 for a paycheck to put food on their table and a roof over their heads.  Deacon’s grief isn’t going to do that.  His grief also isn’t going to pay the bills.  Someone has to be thinking of these things or there’s the real possibility there won’t be a H65 left when Deacon is ready to take the reins.  I know when grieving your world stops turning for a while, but the cold, hard truth is that the rest of the world does keep going.  That said, Zach really isn’t good with people, particularly temperamental artists like Deacon.

I really don’t like the way Deacon went all rage monster at Zach for threatening to take his funding away and sink H65 because Zach NEVER DID THAT.  Of course, Deacon will never apologize and will never think of Zach as anything other than his personal enemy.  I predict by the end of the season, Deacon will come very close to physically assaulting Zach (if he doesn’t actually hit the guy) or otherwise telling him to take his money and leave.

They made it sound like the only thing they had that would bring in any revenue right now was the Rayna album which seems a bit hard to believe.  I mean, between the 2 labels there’s nothing else going on?  Was Rayna really relying on that one album to keep the lights on? 

[Auntie Anxiety]

Apparently Trevor Noah (or Noah Trevor or whatever the hell his name is) is as insufferable in a nighttime soap opera as he is on his own show. At least that's what I gather because I don't watch his show. I'm not in that demographic, thank goodness.

Was thrilled they didn't spend more than a few seconds on Maddie's no-longer-a-boyfriend, (Clay?) who is not a convincing actor. And I can't stand how Daphne is being treated like an afterthought. Good writers would know how to create an interesting story line for her. If anyone should be acting out, it's her, just so someone would notice and pay attention to her.

[WhosThatGirl]

I really did have hope in the beginning of this move and reinstated show that we would be getting less soapy feels but we seem to be getting more.

I can't believe they are having Scarlett become pregnant and yes I'm with others who can't tell if Gunner is Teddy or Deacon. My guess is Teddy, based on the previews as Scarlett says if Damien is the father she plans on not telling him.  But even if it is Gunners baby, I hope they are over. She has treated him poorly for this whole entire season and Gunner needs to get away, be a good dad but don't continue to stay with someone who is only using you. 

Will needs a (better) storyline.  I miss Kevin. Avery and Juliette need a story too. I can't believe Juliette has been regulated to Maddie stories now. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[Artsda]

11 minutes ago, Absurda said:

I caught that, too.  I felt for Daphne, she really does seem like the 3rd wheel in that family. 

However last week she was debating on living with Deacon or her real dad. Plus she was calling Deacon "dad". Daphne's all over the place writing wise.

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He knows a great deal about music, and he's Rayna's widower, why shouldn't he be there?

Because he's just throwing tantrums, getting angry, yelling at Zach. It's Zach & Tandy's millions in the company. Not Deacon's. He never had a thing to do with the running of HW65 before, he never showed any interest in running a company. He should be leaving it to Tandy. I guess they couldn't pay her for this episode to have continuity. She was the one dealing with the company last week.

[gesundheit]

I thought that was a surprisingly strong episode despite the usual Maddie-excess (and of course Scarlett's pregnancy bullshit). Also, it was about time they stopped styling Juliette in such a severe manner -- she looked lovely. And I was glad to see Will get more than 3 minutes of screentime. Less Rayna time should mean more Will time, though it's looking like it's just mostly going to mean more Maddie time, as well as a terrible Who's The Daddy storyline for Scarlett.


Juliette was doing some projecting of her own there. She's 100% right that for an unknown, you really do only get one shot. She basically had to run roughshod over everyone to grab hers. But as others have mentioned, a legend's daughter (especially a legend who died young) will certainly be given more than one break.


I really do not like Maddie's vocal affectations when she's singing. I wish she'd stop trying so hard, she'd sound a lot better. While in fairness she does sound like a teenager trying too hard to have a pop-quality voice, it's odd that with all the Nashville advice she's surely gotten none of the pros told her to cut it out.

Trevor Noah was adorable. But how silly to make him have Maddie sing a song while standing in a circle of four people like that. (In actuality, she would've sung on his show, so that seemed a bit odd.)

[Lovely]

Don't they have those early pregnancy tests you can buy over the counter that let you know within a week or two whether you're pregnant? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought they did. If so then that would explain the uncertainty of who the father of her child is. That said when the dust settled we know it's going to be Gunnar's so whatever to that storyline. Never did like those two together anyways.

[LekoBoy]

More of Juliette's bodyguard/driver, please.  A modern The Help.  He and Glenn and Bucky should team up.  

WHY were Scarlette and Gunner at the HiWay65 business meeting?  

[Absurda]

Quote

Don't they have those early pregnancy tests you can buy over the counter that let you know within a week or two whether you're pregnant? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought they did.

Maybe, but I also think that it would take more than a couple weeks from conception for someone to suspect they're pregnant if they weren't trying for it.  For it to be Damien's kid Scarlett would have needed to run out and buy a pregnancy test the minute she missed one period if it's only been 2 or 3 weeks since Rayna's accident.  I've never been pregnant so I'm not speaking from first hand experience but that seems pretty quick.  Unless she's missed more than one month in which case it would be Gunnar.

[gesundheit]

Don't they have those early pregnancy tests you can buy over the counter that let you know within a week or two whether you're pregnant? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought they did. If so then that would explain the uncertainty of who the father of her child is. That said when the dust settled we know it's going to be Gunnar's so whatever to that storyline. Never did like those two together anyways.

Yeah, I was thinking that she probably has no idea how far along she is, she just missed a period and took a test. Once she sees a doctor she can pin it down better. The show was unclear, though, on how long it'd been since she and Gunnar had been intimate before she started hooking up with the other guy. Sure, she'd lost interest, etc., but some people keep having obligatory sex in such relationships, and she did sleep with the director pretty much the very day she told Gunnar she wasn't into him anymore. It could reasonably only have been a few days in between.

[gryphon]

Quote

Avery's great, he really is.

YES.  And, I loved the group sing compilation at the end.  Cheesy as hell but it made me think of the word "ohana" in a big way.  

And Go Daphne!!! 

[luna1122]

9 minutes ago, gryphon said:

YES.  And, I loved the group sing compilation at the end.  Cheesy as hell but it made me think of the word "ohana" in a big way.  

And Go Daphne!!! 

it always makes me think of 'karass'...that Vonnegut word that means, basically, the same thing. I'm a sucker for that,  even tho I usually hate cheesey stuff.

[NorthstarATL]

Juliette, about Maddie: "I'll take care of her like she's my own daughter". Me: "Who is where, exactly?"

Not instilling confidence. I liked the group sing. The rest was treading water, IMO.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Can the writing on this show get any worse or more unimaginative?

The male characters (Avery, Deacon, Will, Gunnar, etc.)  are all miserable victims. The women are all over-dramatic and histrionic (Maddie, Juliette, Scarlet, now Daphne too).  

They've been like this for five seasons. It's exhausting to watch.

Edited March 10, 2017 by RemoteControlFreak

[TVFAN]

I agree with all who have cried out for an actual storyline for Javery.  My hope is that the first half of the season was so Raynacentric because they knew she was leaving.  

Was I the only one who was prepared to scream if Rayna referred to "our kids" one more time?  Teddy is Daphne's father period.  I know the show has new writers, but they cannot rewrite history.

I think Juliette was right about the "one shot."  There are a handful of children of superstars who have made it in show business, but there are countless others who have not. Deacon was right to encourage Maddie to take a chance.  She can mourn Rayna without wallowing in her grief.

Love the collaboration at the end.  

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, TVFAN said:

Was I the only one who was prepared to scream if Rayna referred to "our kids" one more time?  Teddy is Daphne's father period.  I know the show has new writers, but they cannot rewrite history.

Yeah. Rayna had a line in the video when she was being interviewed where she was praising Deacon and she said in it that "Deacon is the best father her kids could ever ask for". AKA, screw you Teddy. Here's a middle finger to you as a parent. Also, Deacon is ok with Daphne but he'd choose Maddie over Daphne every time since she's his actual kid. I'd like to see a scenario where it isn't the case, but then Maddie would just whine and bitch. 

[milner]

I can't help wondering if this emphasis on Maddie on the show is having any impact on the Stella girls in real life.  Initially the girls pretty much got equal time , sang together etc.     Now it is very one sided. It wouldn't be surprising if some hard feelings lapped over into their home life and that would be a shame.

[Irlandesa]

23 hours ago, Artsda said:

Where the heck was Tandy? Deacon shouldn't have been the one in all those Hiway 65 meetings. He has no clue how to run a business or what he's doing.

Tandy should have been there.  I understand why Deacon is there considering he was married to Rayna and I would think he'd have a say even if he doesn't know how to run a business.  What I can't figure out is why Scarlett and Gunnar were in on that meeting.

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Zach can fuck right off with his "this is all for Rayna" crap. I don't believe for one second that he's trying to get this album out because he gives a rat's ass about Rayna's legacy. He is just trying to strike while the iron is hot because he's opportunistic. I get why he's doing it, but first of all why was he only able to say that to Will and not to Deacon? Secondly, he should have some respect for Deacon. HIS WIFE JUST DIED, FOR FUCK'S SAKE. Zack admitted to Will that people mourn differently, so why can't he accept that Deacon's way of mourning is not to work on an album that he wrote with Rayna right before she died? Zach asking Will to talk Deacon into working on the album was ridiculous.

Zach is opportunistic but I also think he had a solid business case for putting pressure on Deacon if the financial state of the company really is what he says it is.  I get that Deacon is in mourning but sometimes hard stuff has to be decided while in mourning.  Just last week, days after Rayna died, they were talking about legal moves for custody. 

Deacon has the right to decide he doesn't want to finish the album but it could have negative consequences for Rayna's company and that is about Rayna's legacy.  (Although, she did buy back her back catalog so money should be coming in from that as people buy albums after someone's death.)

10 hours ago, Absurda said:

I thought that, too, when Juliette was going on about only having one shot.  Though I can understand that from her own experience that was true.  She only had one shot to get to the top; I think come backs are easier when you’ve already been on top then when you’ve never been there.

I did get a Mama Rose vibe from Juliette pushing Maddie like that, but that is consistent with who Juliette is.  In her mind, you whole life can be coming down around your ears but when it’s time to go on, you leave that in the wings and go on.  Juliette is very good at compartmentalizing that sort of thing.

I don't always feel like this writing staff knows who some of these characters are so it's hard for me to give them credit even if I think they hit the nail on characterization. With Juliette, I think her reaction was accidentally in character instead of intentionally so.  That said, she did raise herself.  Her mother was there in body but rarely spirit.  She had to take any opportunity she could to rise to fame and support herself.  Even when she was suffering from PPD, focusing on work was her what she turned to.  It made sense that she'd apply this POV to Maddie. 

Now, as Rayna's daughter, Maddie will likely always have opportunity even though it probably won't be as intense as it is now. And Deacon could have pointed out that he didn't think it was a good idea.  Instead, he let Maddie decide. Speaking of the writers not knowing these characters, Juliette saying she wanted to help Maddie because of her relationship with Rayna was silly to me.  I think she and Maddie were closer than Juliette was with Rayna.

13 hours ago, piratewench said:

I don't see this as the Maddie show.  I see her becoming more prominent now that she's older, but that makes sense to me. 

She's getting older but are people like Will, Gunnar, Avery and Juliette getting younger?  She has had more airtime than at least three of those characters, if not all of them.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah. Rayna had a line in the video when she was being interviewed where she was praising Deacon and she said in it that "Deacon is the best father her kids could ever ask for". AKA, screw you Teddy. Here's a middle finger to you as a parent. Also, Deacon is ok with Daphne but he'd choose Maddie over Daphne every time since she's his actual kid. I'd like to see a scenario where it isn't the case, but then Maddie would just whine and bitch. 

I think they even had Daphne calling Deacon "Dad" at the end, when the girl were getting him to go and see everyone singing. Which seems weird to me after Teddy just being there last week. She was at least calling Teddy "Dad" then, unlike Maddie.

1 hour ago, milner said:

I can't help wondering if this emphasis on Maddie on the show is having any impact on the Stella girls in real life.  Initially the girls pretty much got equal time , sang together etc.     Now it is very one sided. It wouldn't be surprising if some hard feelings lapped over into their home life and that would be a shame.

I've wondered that too, but the last interview I saw with them they seemed pretty happy and on good terms.

I think part of the issue is Lennon is older. Aren't child actors allowed to work more hours once they turn 16? I think the producers started taking advantage of that in ways they couldn't with Maisy. Her age also makes it more acceptable to give her meatier storylines. Not that I don't think Maisy has acting chops, but they aren't going to have a 13-year-old  have sex wit her boyfriend and sue for emancipation, and that is apparently the kind of drama they want on this show.

[Sandman]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

With Juliette, I think her reaction was accidentally in character instead of intentionally so.  That said, she did raise herself.  Her mother was there in body but rarely spirit.  She had to take any opportunity she could to rise to fame and support herself.  Even when she was suffering from PPD, focusing on work was her what she turned to.  It made sense that she'd apply this POV to Maddie. 

I think it's entirely intentional. Juliette's drive is at the core of her personality. Her characterization has been remarkably consistent in that way -- remarkable, that is, relative to the standards of this show. I don't think Juliette could stop herself from conflating "looking after Maddie" with "looking after Maddie's career," any more than she could explore gospel music in a non-professional capacity. Juliette doesn't really have non-professional capacity. I love the character, but that girl has never been much of a nurturer.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Sandman

[J-Man]

16 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Part of me loves that when Maddie was on tv, they introduced her as Maddie Jaymes.

That kind of annoyed me. She's now had THREE different surnames in the few years we've been following her? (Conrad, Claybourne, and now Jaymes.) Is she doing that just to capitalize on her mother's name recognition? Did she just decide to do it after Mom kicked the bucket? What's Daphne calling herself these days?

[Emily Thrace]

14 minutes ago, J-Man said:

That kind of annoyed me. She's now had THREE different surnames in the few years we've been following her? (Conrad, Claybourne, and now Jaymes.) Is she doing that just to capitalize on her mother's name recognition? Did she just decide to do it after Mom kicked the bucket? What's Daphne calling herself these days?

The feminist in me likes that shes taken her mother's name. (Which was actually her grandmother's maiden name I believe). Its also a nice way of sidestepping the two dads issue. That way she isn't choosing between Deacon or Teddy. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My issue with Zach's pushiness for the album is that if Rayna hadn't died, how was Highway 65 going to make all of payments that Tandy and Zach said are due in the next week? All they have are the scratch tracks so if Rayna was still alive, was she planning on releasing it in the next week? If not, then I don't see why they can't give Deacon a few days to mourn before nagging him to record his parts and hand over all the tapes. I get that Highway 65 is a business and life goes on, but this huge payment that's due for buying Luke's record label is supposedly due in the next few days. How did Rayna originally plan on paying for that? Given the circumstances, I'm pretty sure that Luke would be okay with waiting another month to get paid for that. The urgency for everything else just makes no sense. When my dad died, all the bills that we knew were coming still came. None of them got upgraded to "DUE NOW! PAY IMMEDIATELY!"

Inside the episode:

 

The cast sings "You're Mine"

[Tara]

Quote

Can the writing on this show get any worse or more unimaginative?

The male characters (Avery, Deacon, Will, Gunnar, etc.)  are all miserable victims. The women are all over-dramatic and histrionic (Maddie, Juliette, Scarlet, now Daphne too).  

They've been like this for five seasons. It's exhausting to watch.

Amen!!!!!!!

I guess I'm getting too old and hardened for this show.  :)  Sheesh, Deacon is one big pile of female hormones.  Everyone on this show is so "what about how I feel, the world is so hard, I can't handle this....and sickeningly on and on.

And holier than thou Scarlett tells Gunnar she's pregnant, then says she doesn't know whose it is, with that shit-eating look on her face.  Sure, just dump that mess right on him.

And I am not looking forward to the Daphne storyline I'm sensing----female body images.   I half expect one of those "wholesome" Sports Illustrated models to make an appearance. 

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, Tara said:

And holier than thou Scarlett tells Gunnar she's pregnant, then says she doesn't know whose it is, with that shit-eating look on her face.  Sure, just dump that mess right on him.

I know! It's like she was saying "I want to be honest with you...but deliver it in the bitchiest way possible so it makes you feel bad." There's a difference between wanting to be honest and want to genuinely hurt someone who's already been hurt by you. Also, it's pretty out of character for her to be so calm and accepting of her being pregnant without knowing who the father is. Scarlett would have been a mess before this season. They just did this for the twist and inserted it two seconds from the end of the episode, as a cliffhanger, as if we're supposed to care about her Baby Daddy drama. If the baby's Damien's, then Gunnar goes through yet another Who's The Daddy situation, which sucks because it didn't work out the last time. And we all know Scarlett will "lean" on Gunnar for support, and that's not fair to him. But if it's Gunnar's, then he gets stuck with someone who doesn't love him and is only with him because of their baby.

Either way, Gunnar loses. 

[CrystalMoon]

It was very cruel to tell Gunnar that way. Why was she so blunt? Why didn't she show the tiniest bit of empathy for the guy who might be the baby's father? If Gunnar is the dad, then he'll be involved, and you'd think she'd want him involved. So why does she go out of her way to be downright mean? 

[Sandman]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My issue with Zach's pushiness for the album is that if Rayna hadn't died, how was Highway 65 going to make all of payments that Tandy and Zach said are due in the next week?

Exactly: how is the company buying Wheelin' Dealin' if Highway 65's only asset is Rayna's scratch track? (How bad was the turnout for Broke-Ass and Guilty??) Yeah, the enforced "it has to be NOW" timeline is the episode's weak point.

[CrystalMoon]

Did anyone else notice that at the end of the two videos posted earlier in the thread, they replaced the image of Rayna with Maddie. So now the face of Nashville is Deacon, Juliette and Maddie. Putting Maddie into a lead role is a deal-breaker for me with this show. 

[EuropeanGirl]

On 3/10/2017 at 3:53 PM, Sandman said:

Except that Juliette herself has had more than one shot/comeback.

In Scarlett's case, to me it means having your big break and making it in the industry, as oppose to Juliette's, who is already successful and had a few bumps in her already established career (she was getting another shot for that). (can't write outside the box, sorry)