S06.E07: Imminent Risk

[attica]

Is it standard practice for CPS to whisk a kid away without, say, getting a few clothes/stuffed rabbit from home so she doesn't feel quite so uprooted? Or is the thinking that any return home is risky? And why wouldn't they permit supervised visit/phone call with Carrie? Or is this just an example of show writers not knowing how stuff works? 

On 3/6/2017 at 4:48 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Dar has had no issues manipulating and taking advantage of people, even vulnerable teenage foster kids.

"I never forced myself on anybody." Said every pedophile priest, ever. Way to lampshade Dar's irredeemability, show!

[NorthstarATL]

10 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

For those who know, is that how you're to treat someone who's fallen off the wagon? Hang up on them? Honestly asking as I don't have much experience being on the other end of that kind of call.

Tough love. There ARE sponsors etc. that will DO that, but it's generally based upon the history of the person involved. We don't know enough about any of that, nor whether anyone was recording/wiretapping. It's been known to happen.

[teddysmom]

I don't think the PEOTUS was out of line hanging up. She couldn't risk agreeing to help Carrie by calling the governor's office and knowing Dar, he's having her calls monitored.

I have a feeling the last five epis are going to start ramping up to 11. 

[roughing it]

12 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

Wasn't the guy who planted the bomb on Sekhou's van the same one lurking outside when the iranian guy was taken and then called Dar?

Yes, I believe so.

[teddysmom]

That's what I thought too.  "Hey isn't that across the street guy?"

I cannot imagine CPS taking a child without letting them get clothes from home etc.

And don't judges usually give mothers the benefit of the doubt? Lots of people have guns in their homes and are amateur gun nuts and don't lose their kids.  

[piequinn35]

The safehouse of Quinn/Astrid, was that the same house where Brody and Carrie went to in S1 or S2?

[attica]

1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

The safehouse of Quinn/Astrid, was that the same house where Brody and Carrie went to in S1 or S2?

It looked to me like the house they used in the second season of The Affair. Maybe Showtime got a two-fer deal!

[lullaby]

6 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

They also retconned Quinn's past - wasn't his real name John? And he had an wife/ex-wife and kid back then.

In s5 Carrie asks him about his son and he says some people are not parent material. Also, he says (s4/s5) Peter Quinn is his "legal" name, so he could be John for all we know.

 

To be honest, I hate what they're doing to Quinn and Dar. Dar has always been shady, but this new revelation makes him an awful human being. And Quinn? He needs a break. He went through hell in s5, and again in s6. I don't know why, but I started this season thinking it would be absurd to kill/almost kill Quinn again.  Now? I don't believe in miracles but Dar and Quinn surviving s6 would be one. They are done.

[snarts]

Quote

The safehouse of Quinn/Astrid, was that the same house where Brody and Carrie went to in S1 or S2?

Looked to me to be the same cottage, but that was supposedly Carrie's family cabin.  Carrie & Brody went there twice (season 1 & 2).

[Norma Desmond]

Yes, I thought it was the same cabin, too.

 

Thanks for clearing that out, lullaby.

[piequinn35]

^The second was the time they made Franny. And everybody was listening inc. Quinn. :xD

[Shadylane]

I don't know NY law specifically, but I do practice family law and the scenes involving CPS were surprisingly accurate.  Caseworkers absolutely have the right to speak to children without parental consent.  Additionally, imminent risk is a highly subjective standard and judges oftentimes sign off on emergency removals based on allegations only.  Mental health diagnoses with a question as to current treatment are often cited as contributing factors in removing children from parents (usually combined with other concerns).  it is also accurate that the children would not be brought to their home to gather belongings.  Parents would be asked to provide them directly to the caseworker or CPS would be ordered to provide vouchers to get items.  The one thing that didn't ring true was that Carrie would have been granted the ability to visit/speak with Franny, but this could easily take anywhere from a few days to a week to set up.

[slowpoked]

7 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

The safehouse of Quinn/Astrid, was that the same house where Brody and Carrie went to in S1 or S2?

Speaking of Astrid, what is the deal that Dar made, when she told Quinn that that  was how she was able to get him out of the pysch ward? I mean, what's the deal? That Astrid will babysit Quinn until Dar's master plan eventually comes to fruition? Isn't she an active German CIA still? I know she has a special fondness for Quinn so it wasn't out of line that she went out of her way to make sure he's safe, but for how long? I highly doubt a high-ranking German agent like her would take to babysitting for who knows how long.

[WaltersHair]

Quote

To be honest, I hate what they're doing to Quinn and Dar. Dar has always been shady

I've always thought Dar was super shady and every season I'm surprised that he's not. This season, I was thinking "Finally."

I don't know if that's the way F. Murray has always played him or the it's the script.

[Lemons]

10 hours ago, teddysmom said:

That's what I thought too.  "Hey isn't that across the street guy?"

I cannot imagine CPS taking a child without letting them get clothes from home etc.

And don't judges usually give mothers the benefit of the doubt? Lots of people have guns in their homes and are amateur gun nuts and don't lose their kids.  

Apparently there are more guns than people in the United States. A lot of people keep loaded guns in the house and fall asleep at some point. The way they worded it though, they made Carrie sound "crazy."  

Carrie would be allowed to bring clothes, etc to the social worker, but in emergency hearings like that, judges will typically take the social workers recommendation. 

The government can't take a child away just because a parent has a mental illness. But they were insinuating that her decisions  put the child at risk were caused by her bipolar. Quite a stretch. 

Did they say Carrie couldn't visit her daughter ?

[TVbitch]

I hate to say it, but this show almost has to end soon. I mean, there can only be so many major crises, political conspiracies, terrorist plots wherein only Saul/Carrie and sometimes Quinn figure out and save the day. Quinn can only be kidnapped and beat down so many times. Carrie can only get so many men killed. (RIP Nurse Jackie's husband!) After what Franny is going through this season, I can't imagine Carrie going back to active service, so how many more ways can they contrive to bring the action to her. 

Having said that, I would totally watch a spin-off about Quinn. 

[scrb]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

I hate to say it, but this show almost has to end soon. I mean, there can only be so many major crises, political conspiracies, terrorist plots wherein only Saul/Carrie and sometimes Quinn figure out and save the day. Quinn can only be kidnapped and beat down so many times. Carrie can only get so many men killed. (RIP Nurse Jackie's husband!) After what Franny is going through this season, I can't imagine Carrie going back to active service, so how many more ways can they contrive to bring the action to her. 

Having said that, I would totally watch a spin-off about Quinn. 

How many seasons was 24 on the air?  How many times did Jack Bauer save America?

Initially, they kept Brody on too long, much longer than they initially planned.  So they've been rebooting the series every season since, hopping around from place to place.

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[Ina123]

My hope is that in the end they will all realize that though he is physically handicapped and cannot perform as before, Quinn still has good instincts and can play a role in analysis with the CIA. After all, he caught on to the man across the street and actually surveilled him. I'd like to see him go to therapy and improve his cognitive thinking and become a productive employee.

[teddysmom]

Quote

Initially, they kept Brody on too long,

They could really f with us and have Damien Lewis on the show as Bobby Axelrod from Billions and he'll have an affair with Carrie. 

[Pallas]

21 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

 

The safehouse of Quinn/Astrid, was that the same house where Brody and Carrie went to in S1 or S2?

Not on purpose! Even if we imagine that Carrie's father willed the Matheson cabin to his former employers, this cabin was supposed to be in New York State (the passing truck's license plates) not West Virginia. I want to believe that we meant to have a brief thrill of believing that Carrie had orchestrated Peter's rescue, though. 

[MV007]

On 3/8/2017 at 8:19 AM, Ina123 said:

My hope is that in the end they will all realize that though he is physically handicapped and cannot perform as before, Quinn still has good instincts and can play a role in analysis with the CIA. After all, he caught on to the man across the street and actually surveilled him. I'd like to see him go to therapy and improve his cognitive thinking and become a productive employee.

Am I missing something?  Isn't he delusional right now?  He is right about the guy from across the street but he also thinks everyone else is out to get him too.  I don't think even this CIA could trust him without same major therapy.

[Milburn Stone]

On 3/7/2017 at 9:24 AM, attica said:

"I never forced myself on anybody." Said every pedophile priest, ever. Way to lampshade Dar's irredeemability, show!

Maybe it's subjective--and also maybe I don't understand the meaning of lampshade as a verb--but I didn't think the writers meant that line to excuse Dar's conduct. Basically I didn't believe him when he said it, and I think we were meant not to believe him. Or maybe this is exactly what you're saying also? I don't know! Have pity on an old person. :)

[attica]

Yes, Milburn, your read is indeed what I was saying. :) "Hanging a lampshade" is showbiz jargon for calling specific attention to a prop. So I was suggesting that by giving Dar such a horrible cliche of a line of dialogue, the audience is to understand that he is a Capital-S Shit.

[Lady Iris]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 9:56 PM, nara said:

On a less important topic, I appreciated the Brody mention. I know I am probably in the minority,  but I would like for Frannie to meet her siblings some day.

I appreciated the Brody mention too. That first season was hellaciously good. I was thinking that when the social worker asked if there was anybody to call, why not, and I forgot her name, Brody's wife to have Frannie stay with her half siblings. I get it might've been a tactless thing to do but desperate times...

Poor Carrie, when asked by the President Elect and staff secretary for info to help take down Dar, Carrie held fast to her principles in not betraying confidences of a colleague. Who da thunk that'd come back and bite her in the ass so badly?

Poor Quinn too, as if a week can go by without thinking it,  I sorta forgot that it was Carrie who pushed to have him woken up to get any info that he might've had that caused him the cerebral hemorrhage. That guy was gonna take him for a ride until he started getting agitated, "She's a German spy!" Aww Quinn...you were almost home free.

[Pallas]

23 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

On 3/6/2017 at 9:56 PM, nara said:

On a less important topic, I appreciated the Brody mention. I know I am probably in the minority,  but I would like for Frannie to meet her siblings some day.

 

Me three. And I think that will happen, but first, Carrie will have to tell Franny who her father was. I'm unclear about what we-the-people in the States now think of Brody. Do we still think he bombed the CIA? Since his execution by Iran can't have been kept a secret, what explanation were we given for it?   

[Ottis]

That was stupendously boring. I'm not sure why we are supposed to care about Carrie and Franny. Even if we accept that the outside viewpoint of Carrie is a set up, her life and past do pose a threat to Franny. 

Quote

I hate to say it, but this show almost has to end soon. I mean, there can only be so many major crises, political conspiracies, terrorist plots wherein only Saul/Carrie and sometimes Quinn figure out and save the day. Quinn can only be kidnapped and beat down so many times. Carrie can only get so many men killed. 

Homeland is best when its events say something about the real world. Who dies and gets beat up, etc., is almost secondary to that. The issue for me this season is that, if the show is saying something about, say, how child services treats parents, I don't care to watch that on a TV show. Or how unfair the VA is for injured vets like Peter. Or naked ambition within the government (Dar). Those are all fine plot lines, but they don't interest me when I watch TV.  I need this show to go back to being about something bigger. How the gov't treated Sekou came close, and I thought this season was going to end up being about how the US treats terrorism at home, and then they killed him.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Ottis

[koalathebear]

I totally think that the writers are guilty of retconning Quinn's past big time ... I wrote about it here but have to confess that i'm quite surprised at how the majority of people are just going with the inference that Dar sexually abused Quinn.  Seriously?  As I wrote here, I seriously cannot accept that Quinn would have stuck around and continued to work for his abuser for more than 20 years.  Even if he was broken and a 'victim', he would have killed Dar yonks ago to protect other at risk youth ... 

[Pallas]

I liked your off-site post, koalathebear. I disagree, though, that at the end of season 2, we were still working with a version of Quinn's past that left his introductory Main Line/Ivy cover story intact. Max had already explored Quinn's (monastery) cell of an apartment, and found the picture of Quinn's lost son; Carrie had already met-and-pissed-off Quinn's ex, a Philly cop. And Quinn had already taken a tactical disagreement very personally, very Oedipally with Dar. I do bet you're right that the cover story was meant to provide a fig leaf for Rupert Friend if his accent were exposed, just like the never-revisited mention of Ian McShane's Al Swearingen's being a "Limey," in Deadwood's pilot.

4 hours ago, koalathebear said:

I seriously cannot accept that Quinn would have stuck around and continued to work for his abuser for more than 20 years.  Even if he was broken and a 'victim', he would have killed Dar yonks ago to protect other at risk youth ... 

I'm not yet convinced that Dar Adal "took what was offered" from young Quinn as well as other boys. But not because Quinn didn't seem to offer himself, or because he hasn't killed Adal. Whether or not Adal laid a hand on young Quinn, he exploited him. As a foundling, as an adolescent in longterm foster care,  Peter was susceptible to rescue myths and father-worship before Dar ever found him. Given what we've since seen of Peter's frailties, it seems likely that Peter regarded Adal as his savior -- and not only his savior, but the one adult who recognized him as salvageable, valuable and unique, all at once. Fidelity unto martyrdom is born from less than that.

What Dar had going for him in working with over young Peter, is the power to make Peter feel less like trash. To play on what was in fact the conviction, the inner strength, that kept unwanted young Peter embittered but alive and vital. If the price of that was to be sexually used, well, women young and old trade sex for security and validation daily, over millennia. With Peter, Adar's validation took hold because it came in adolescence, at the peak and final moment it could find traction. And because it was true: Peter was something special; he was born a prince with potent aptitudes.

Dar saw it; Peter's parents never saw it; other adults had never seen it; and Dar was right. He believed about Peter what Peter believed about himself, only more so. He told Peter he was free to believe it. He was free to say it. He was free to act on it. He was free to do things that other people weren't -- it was right for him to do things that would be wrong for other people -- because of who he, Peter, was. The gratitude for this recognition, received in youth when it was already too late, penetrates and colors the cloth of the psyche. Even if you realize that the person took advantage of your vulnerability: built you up purely to make use of your vulnerability, and of vulnerability wherever he found it.

I don't think it was trust that Adal exploited -- adolescent Peter was probably beyond trusting anyone -- it was hero-worship. It was a crush on the bad head-boy, happy to enlist you in his license. It was a very jejune, tempestuous first love. The love of a child for an abuser or a country for a demagogue, however far down the wrong road it leads. Because to call it for what it is, is to acknowledge the impotent, bawling child within: to reveal to yourself how much more feckless and monstrous you are than you feared in the first place. How nakedly you wanted; how simply you were used; how damaged you already were; how horribly you love.

"I don't think you understand how vulnerable you are." Whether or not Adal laid a hand on young Peter, he transgressed: he violated Peter's core. Black ops. Dark arts. Sin.

[wrlord]

I see this show continues its absurd anti-semitic momentum.  Orthodox Jews show up at JFK brandishing Israeli flags to protest the arrival of a plane from Iran.  In what paranoid delusion has that ever happened?

Innocent Iran is abiding by its nuclear treaty, and Israel is framing it to appear it is violating the treaty?

This is truly obscene.

[shelley1234]

On 3/6/2017 at 3:43 PM, roughing it said:

The social worker had no right to come to the day care and speak to Frannie without Carrie's knowledge or consent, let alone take her from the day care.  I can't believe the day care director let that happen in the first place.

 

That is exactly what has to happen.  When a report comes in about abuse or neglect of a child, the worker has to interview the child first before the parent is told or interviewed.  Standard protocol.  It often happens at school.  The school worker (was that the director?) who called Carrie is the one who broke protocol.   

On 3/6/2017 at 11:41 PM, Norma Desmond said:

Wasn't the guy who planted the bomb on Sekhou's van the same one lurking outside when the iranian guy was taken and then called Dar?

Yep.  He was also the guy who killed the FBI agent and chased Carrie into the street.  He seems to be Dar's black ops guy.  

On 3/7/2017 at 10:24 AM, attica said:

Is it standard practice for CPS to whisk a kid away without, say, getting a few clothes/stuffed rabbit from home so she doesn't feel quite so uprooted? Or is the thinking that any return home is risky? And why wouldn't they permit supervised visit/phone call with Carrie? Or is this just an example of show writers not knowing how stuff works? 

"I never forced myself on anybody." Said every pedophile priest, ever. Way to lampshade Dar's irredeemability, show!

 

Carrie should absolutely have supervised visits, however they often wait a good 72 hours to allow the child to adjust to the new environment first.  That is set up with the worker though and not something the judge will mention in court.  This episode showed that they often do know how stuff works.  

Do I think that Carrie's behavior meets the criteria for removal?  Probably not, but the case can be made.  She allowed Quinn in her home who is a known risk and then allowed him to supervise her child alone.  He reacted violently.  She then spent the whole interview with the worker defending Quinn instead of listening to why it was dangerous for her child.  She then came home when she knew her and her child could be in danger and just stayed there.  I was shocked during the episode that she didn't go to Max's or a hotel.  She knew the guy who just shot someone could be holed up across the street.   So instead of going to some place safer, she just sits with a gun next to her child.  That's not dangerous or traumatizing at all.   

 

As for Dar and Quinn.  Interesting how even though Quinn still searches for words and struggles to communicate, he sees (at least to me) what is going on.  He tried to get away because he knows there is still work to be done.  When Dar comes he doesn't sit sheepily, but reminds Dar that he still knows and remembers their past.  He also is verbal enough to tell Dar to go fuck himself.  

I can't wait to see what Quinn does next.   Dar is the big bad and I have a feeling Quinn is gonna be the one to take him down.  

[polyhymnia]

On 3/7/2017 at 6:44 PM, Shadylane said:

I don't know NY law specifically, but I do practice family law and the scenes involving CPS were surprisingly accurate.  Caseworkers absolutely have the right to speak to children without parental consent.  Additionally, imminent risk is a highly subjective standard and judges oftentimes sign off on emergency removals based on allegations only.  Mental health diagnoses with a question as to current treatment are often cited as contributing factors in removing children from parents (usually combined with other concerns).  it is also accurate that the children would not be brought to their home to gather belongings.  Parents would be asked to provide them directly to the caseworker or CPS would be ordered to provide vouchers to get items.  The one thing that didn't ring true was that Carrie would have been granted the ability to visit/speak with Franny, but this could easily take anywhere from a few days to a week to set up.

Her not having some sort of supervised visitation (more from the next episode than from this one) seemed very off to me.  Also, it was an emergency removal so there will be more hearings and Carrie seemed to indicate that there weren't going to be any.  Her legal representation was not too great in the first one, though.  I mean, get a guy who does more family law.

 

ETA:  I binge watched most of this season right before episode 7 and for some reason I thought it was the season finale so I was pretty open mouthed going "wait what?" when it ended with Franny being removed.

Edited March 13, 2017 by polyhymnia

[John Potts]

OK, so now we now Dar is definitely the villain of the Season - not alone, but the main antagonist. But what was good was showing WHY he made it to the top of the CIA - he knows how to play the game better than most people around him. The way he handled Carrie by attacking her Achilles Heel (Frannie) without showing his hand to Carrie was brilliant (evil, but brilliant) - though I see that Judith hasn't got any less of a bitch since splitting with Alan*, even working for Child Protective Services. One thing I didn't believe was that Astrid would work with Dar - she's always been her own woman (and agency) so I wonder what he told her. Possibly a mistake on his part, as like Carrie (and Keane) she won't be beholden to him if it comes out that Dar is the villain of the piece.

Can anyone explain WTF Javadi was doing coming to America? It wasn't to meet his handler (as Saul didn't know he was coming) - the guy is a senior Spymaster in the Iranian secret service, not somebody who should be leaving his country for anything. But say what you like about the guy - he may be one ruthless, extremist mofo, but he sure is tough.

On ‎06‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 5:18 AM, dwmarch said:

As for Carrie's paranoia about the police, she could have explained it better. She could have told the judge how in her last interaction with the police heavily armed commandos were crashing through her ceiling

Easy for us (as viewers) to say, but Carrie's has always been her own worst enemy when she gets emotional. Dar undoubtedly knows that, which is why he chose to attack her in an area where she was most vulnerable.

On ‎06‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 5:10 PM, roughing it said:

Dar reminds him of Scar from The Lion King.  Dar might endure the same fate.

What, eaten by hyenas?

 

* Two and a Half Men reference, for those who didn't watch it.

[gallimaufry]

That was seriously intense.  The season is great but we'd better get some light soon.  The CPS stuff was as grim and infuriating as any espionage scene.

It does feel that Dar is over-reaching with this one and there's a lot going on; he tipped his hand to both Saul and Quinn here.  I hope this isn't his last season though; even if he's exposed, there's still so much more to do with him.  I'm glad Saul and Quinn are catching on and I'm sure Carrie will when she gets her head straight.

I don't really get where they're going with Keane; she's not a bad guy but she's still pretty vile.

The show has depicted plenty of villainous Muslims in its day (Javadi this episode!) so I don't mind the Israelis and the CIA being the big bad for a change, especially in a conspiracy show.  "24" was similar in that it would swing wildly between conspiracy theories -- one season had oil barons and Washington hawks conspiring to hand terrorists a nuke so they could start a war and get rich off the profits while another season had the sweet Muslim family next door as terror kingpins and torture being the only solution.

"Homeland" is a strange show.  I don't enjoy it enough to ever revisit it (or when I have, I've not found it held my interest) and it takes a long time to ramp up but it can also be really good.  I'm really excited to see where it goes in the final 5.

[John Potts]

1 hour ago, gallimaufry said:

The show has depicted plenty of villainous Muslims in its day (Javadi this episode!) so I don't mind the Israelis and the CIA being the big bad for a change, especially in a conspiracy show.  "24" was similar in that it would swing wildly between conspiracy theories 

Spooks (MI:5 in the US) was the same: the Big Bads switched between the CIA and KGB (or whatever they're called these days GRU? SVR?) with a secret cabal of businessmen (SPECTRE?) plotting to takeover the world filling in one Season.

[Kel Varnsen]

Decent episode considering how much of it seemed to be set up. They obviously had to get Frannie out of the way before the serious shit goes down, and this seems like a good way to do it. Was surprised that Dar turned out to be the main bad guy though, I thought that we were going to get some kind of twist where it really wasn't him.

On 3/5/2017 at 10:42 PM, SimoneS said:

I don't understand how Saul became so marginalized in the agency that Dar could pull off this scheme. Saul is supposed to be powerful yet the director actually has him interrogated to appease the Mossad. Who is the superpower here? I am glad that Javadi escaped. He was a good man once and it paid off.

I was really confused by something, since I really thought that Dar was the director of the CIA. But now it looks like there is someone above him. So why is the president elect being briefed by Dar and Saul so regularly, and why hasn't Saul gone over Dar's head if he has an issue?

[John Potts]

On ‎20‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 1:20 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I was really confused by something, since I really thought that Dar was the director of the CIA

I think Dar IS Chief spook, but the CIA Director is a political appointee (like Senator Thingy in S4, or the real world George HW Bush under President Ford). And even if he IS the Director, he would still report to the National Security Council (or whatever alternative body exists in the Homeland-verse) and ultimately the President.

[Roseanna]

On ‎13‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 1:51 AM, shelley1234 said:

Do I think that Carrie's behavior meets the criteria for removal?  Probably not, but the case can be made.  She allowed Quinn in her home who is a known risk and then allowed him to supervise her child alone.  He reacted violently.  She then spent the whole interview with the worker defending Quinn instead of listening to why it was dangerous for her child.  She then came home when she knew her and her child could be in danger and just stayed there.  I was shocked during the episode that she didn't go to Max's or a hotel.  She knew the guy who just shot someone could be holed up across the street.   So instead of going to some place safer, she just sits with a gun next to her child.  That's not dangerous or traumatizing at all.   

In addition, Carrie didn't take Frannie's fears seriously enough. She thinks that because she herself knows that Quinn couldn't have hurt her child, Frannie understands it also.  

On ‎14‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 1:49 PM, John Potts said:

Can anyone explain WTF Javadi was doing coming to America? It wasn't to meet his handler (as Saul didn't know he was coming) - the guy is a senior Spymaster in the Iranian secret service, not somebody who should be leaving his country for anything.

Saul knew Javadi was coming - in the airport Javadi was given (when he got his passport back) a ticket to the hockey match where they were supposed to meet sit side by side as if by chance.

On ‎6‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 8:08 AM, VagueDisclaimer said:

I think that really was Franny, as was other quotes from the interview. While this woman did work with Dar's tip and may have encouraged some things from Franny during the interviews, I don't necessarily think that it was all fabricated. That's the hardest part, really. 

I agree. Franny was more afraid than Carrie wanted to admit.

Yet, also taking a child away so abrutly can be traumatic.  Can Frannie really understand it?

On ‎6‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 5:32 PM, RedFiat said:

True. But what if the whole over arching intel that North Korea does in fact have some sort of build up from Iran is true? Javardi hasn't assured me of squat. A cell phone picture that could be staged?   If that's the case, then all of Dar's dastardly deeds makes for a big twist, regardless of how subhuman he is this season.  Dar has always played on the dark side, we know that from the first time he was introduced on the show, so his machinations shouldn't be all that surprising.  

That can happen. So far, all seems to simple.

So far, this season has been a disappointment to me, although Sekou's plot line was a good idea (that he was self-evidently a suicide bomber because he was a Moslem).        

On ‎6‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 8:35 AM, scrb said:

PEOTUS can't help?  That sounds like a crock, not like Carrie was looking to profit from asking her to make calls.  But I guess she's not going to bother to call on Carrie any more, to seek her counsel.

Could it be legal to POTUS, still less PEOTUS, to order the authorities, still less the court, to change their decisions that are within their powers. So I belive anything PEOTUS could do would be recommend a good lawyer - which Carrie should be able to do by herself or with the help of her friends.

But yes, Carrie alienated PEOTUS who has now difficulties trust her any more - and Carrie did it by herself, not Dar.

I had already suspected that Dar was behing the "demonstration" in front of Carrie's house, in order to get Quinn away. Perhaps Dar also arranged Sekoy to Carrie's client?

But I find strange that Dar had so few personnel that the quy who watched Carrie's house had to be the same who put the bomb in Sekou's car.  

[misstwpherecool]

On 3/7/2017 at 7:24 AM, attica said:

...

"I never forced myself on anybody." Said every pedophile priest, ever. Way to lampshade Dar's irredeemability, show!

Exactly. Dar's character had the foundation laid of being shady just by making him the dirty work guy(assassinations etc) in S 2. He was from a part of the company not many wanted to deal with. Just the fact that he was willing to kill a US congressman(Brody) tells one where his scrupples are at. And it rubbed off Quinn ie when he stabbed Brody in an interrogation on domestic soil. They left it ambiguous a couple of seasons but his scheming this along with he doesn't 'force' anyone leaves no doubt. And probably would be the type of guy that could do that kind of work and not think twice about it.

Dar is part of Quinn's troubles. I think Quinn regrets all the killing even though he thinks like and is an excellent soldier. When he accidentally killed the kid in Venezuela that basically stopped him from becoming another Dar. But Quinn knows the reality of what he done over the years which is why is depressed and suicidal. That and not advancing his relationship with Carrie sealed his fate. The gas chamber experience just reinforced his deteriorating attitude.

Why did the Iranian Intel guy kill the man who rescued him? As much as I wanted to pay for killing his ex wife and daughter I did not want to see him tortured like that. He's still cagey on the nuke program.

I just started watching//binge watching the series the last month after getting an intro offer with Showtime and this is  the first epi to comment on. It was the bleakest epi yet but I think there was a lot of set up here. This is where I stopped I will continue binging soon. I hope this doesn't turn into a show where all the characters and/or story just disappoint the heck out of you.

[Roseanna]

On ‎5‎.‎7‎.‎2018 at 4:51 AM, misstwpherecool said:

Why did the Iranian Intel guy kill the man who rescued him? As much as I wanted to pay for killing his ex wife and daughter I did not want to see him tortured like that. He's still cagey on the nuke program.

I think Javadi had to kill his subordinate although he rescued him because the man believed that Javad was falsely accused of treason. What would happen when this man learned the truth that Javadi had been for years an American agent? Would he just accept it or would he try to revenge on Javadi? In any case, the man couldn't just return to Iran as he had helped the traitor and would be punished for it.

One of the horrible things in the show was how Javed murdered his ex-wife with a bottle - it showed what a beast he is as a person. Of course he had planned terror attacks around the world but these deeds were impersonal - other people dirtied their hands.

But we saw other side of him when he talked with Carrie about Brody in S3 - he understood what she saw in him and what she felt towards him better than she herself did. In the same time he was quite right that Brody had to be caught and executed in order to promote him to the position he could influence on the Iranian foreign policy. Instead, Saul was too soft towards Carrie as saving Brody would have meant that Brody had murdered the general in vain and Saul's great plan would have failed.      

All in all, Javad is an excellent intelligence officer without any normal ethics who is willing to serve anybody in order to survive - the Shah, the theocratic Iranian government and the CIA. Which is why Saul made a deal with him - so long it benefits him, he will keep it.

[Anela]

On 3/5/2017 at 10:58 PM, numbnut said:

IKR? Especially right after his veiled threat outside Franny's school.

I vaguely recall the show referencing the creepy Dar/Quinn stuff a while back. Maybe it was in the ep when Quinn was on a bender with that apartment manager?

He mentioned it when Quinn was missing, I think, in season five. I watched it the other night.

I knew the social worker was up to no good, and I hated seeing her use the bipolar disorder against Carrie. 

Astrid would choose Quinn over Dar, I'm sure of it.