S01.E01: Pilot

[skotnikov]

Gosh, that was – Sarandon aside – terrible. It felt like AHS deja vu and I bet they used costumes and settings from the AHS, and Jessica Lang even not trying to play someone different from her typical AHS-character. Lazy writing and a very banal in-you-face message too. All in all a  huge disappointment. 

[aradia22]

I really enjoyed that. I was worried because I LOVE Joan Crawford and I like Bette Davis and especially doing a show around the Baby Jane era, it could go very camp and Mommie Dearest super easily. I think so far it seems like they've struck a good balance between something respectful of the real women and still deliciously catty in the way you want from a show called Feud. I like a lot of styling choices and the music. And there are good one-liners and quips but it's not too over the top like Glee or that one episode of Scream Queens. I can just imagine what that line about Joan not wanting to anything Sapphic would have sounded like on one of those shows. 

To me, it was a little heavyhanded on laying out their film careers, sexism/misogyny in the film industry, and the rivalry between them but I can let that go because I get that there needs to be a bit of a shortcut for viewers who know nothing about these two women or what things were like in the past. I'm not in love with the interview thing with Catherine Zeta-Jones and Kathy Bates but I can let that go too. I do think one benefit is that it adds to the starriness of the show in a way that works. It's hard to completely see Lange and Sarandon as Crawford and Davis but there's a bit of glamour with all these other famous faces around that makes it come together.

While they keep playing that unsettling music under Crawford close-ups, for the most part, I actually find Lange to be the better fit for her real life counterpart. When Crawford shot her first scene in the movie there was a moment when Lange disappeared and everything mushed together in my brain and it totally worked for me. Sarandon is more distinctly herself but she's also playing Bette Davis as more of a "broad" and with less sensitivity. When they were in the theater watching the playback all I kept hearing was Susan Sarandon. 

[blaase]

I think what hurts Lange in this role is she has been overused by Murphy , at one point you just have to cast someone else!

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I always think of Clara Bow, but I think a number of stars had similar childhoods to Joan Crawford. 

That's interesting.  I see Lange as at least making some effort to resemble Joan, while Susan just looks like herself.  That isn't to say they aren't both doing well in the parts, just that if Susan wasn't in the period costumes, I wouldn't have any idea she was supposed to be playing Bette Davis. 

Personally I don't consider the silent film era as "Hollywood" and Crawford is in the league of superstardom where they are still in the public eye nearly half a century after their death not really the case with Bow.

Edited March 8, 2017 by blaase

[aradia22]

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Crawford and Davis were in their early 50s at this point, but Lange is in her late 60s and Sarandon is 70.  

For whatever reason... styling, makeup, etc. I actually thought Sarandon looked younger than Lange. It did seem a little odd thinking back to how the real life Crawford and Davis looked in the movies around that time and then seeing these actresses. But I appreciated that they made the effort to film little snippets when they referenced something so it was easier to keep picturing them as their respective characters and not get as sidetracked in making comparisons to the real people.

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The title sequence is brilliant!

YES!

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Alison Wright is playing another secretary.  Think she's a Russian spy?

Haha. I haven't watched The Americans since season 1 but she immediately jumped out at me. I did think she seemed awfully... forward especially compared to the blatant sexism in the Tucci scene and the noticeable lack of women as reporters, movie crew, etc. Are we just supposed to think Aldrich is particularly lax with this one secretary?

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Last year I read biographies of both women.  Bette would often fight with the studios to look unattractive for a role especially when she was younger.  Joan was too insecure to not look glamorous all of the time.

That makes sense. And despite Bette's dig about just showing up when Crawford was already a star (cough, you're old) I'm sure Crawford was used to being beautifully lit. She was gorgeous in those early movies. In that soft, romantic lighting she just glows, almost like she's lit from within. 

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It really illustrated the contrast between the main characters.  JC was wearing shoulder pads and lipstick to play a housebound invalid because JC is a star first and then an actress.  And BD wanted BJ to "look demented" because she's an actress first and a star second.

From her early roles, I've always found Crawford to be a capable and captivating actress. Her performances hold up fine for me. I think the "star first" part makes sense for JC coming up playing ingenue roles (but with a unique intensity and determination) and then transitioning into roles that relied on her star presence. It's not a perfect analogy but I guess it would be the equivalent of someone like Sandra Bullock who started in romantic comedies and then got leading roles but ones where you go see the movie for Sandra Bullock. I find Bette Davis very affected as an actress. I mean that she's bad but it's not like she was giving much more naturalistic performances than Crawford was. 

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It really seemed like they were trying to show that Joan was broke and doing everything she could to stay afloat. I actually loved the bit with her Mamacita gardening when they realized they couldn't pay the gardeners. Mamacita, in general, cracked me up. 

Jackie Hoffmann is doing a great job. I cracked up when she corrected him that JC was waiting on the patio after he'd started up the steps. I'm happy to hear that the real Mamacita was Austrian. It was confusing me why they would cast Hoffmann if the character was supposed to be Hispanic. 

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She learned the names of every person working at the studio, no matter how "small" their job was, and the names of their spouses and children. 

I thought that was actually a nice touch in the episode and not the manipulative gesture Bette interpreted it as. It might have seemed casual if she'd just gotten everyone ties but she had a unique comment for every member of the crew. 

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JL is letting a lot of almost Southern gentility seep into her performance. Someone else mentioned that the coarseness of JC is lacking and I agree. 

In my mind, JC is similar to a lot of her early screen roles. She's a scrappy lower class girl that you shouldn't be noticing but her beauty and the force of her personality are undeniable. She's also the kind of dame who can hang with Clark Gable. I agree that JL is playing her a little too posh instead of just with a veneer of learned elegance to cover her upbringing and background but it doesn't bother me too much because she is playing JC later in life post-Pepsi. We've gotten hints of it. I think that's enough for the pilot. 

[PrincessSteel]

3 hours ago, theatremouse said:

i'm not sure exactly which bits you mean, but since that was based on her life, I think to a certain extent, if the parts in question were true to life and well-known, it might have seemed necessary to include it, or perhaps, unncessary to avoid it just because it's also touched on in the film? I'm just hypothesizing though.

I was mostly referring to the ice and witch hazel face dunk sequence...it was either lifted directly from MD or it was an homage. Other smaller details that I can't recall right now. I am prepared to believe that I was primed to look for similarities, though, after the way that Joan's morning beauty ritual was shot.

[txhorns79]

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Personally I don't consider the silent film era as "Hollywood" and Crawford is in the league of superstardom where they are still in the public eye nearly half a century after their death not really the case with Bow.

I think a number of sound actors had terrible childhoods as well.  For example, Marilyn Monroe and Jimmy Cagney both grew up in poverty.   As for Crawford, I think she has remained known as having been an actress for reasons less about her films and more about Mommie Dearest.  I mean, I thought a reason for this show was to focus on the notoriety of both women, and what it was like when they worked together.                

[Evagirl]

On 3/5/2017 at 11:43 PM, SmithW6079 said:

I'm not a stranger to swearing, but I was shocked at the amount of vulgarity, especially Stanley Tucci's character calling Bette Davis a "c--t."

Agree!  I didn't think the vulgarity was necessary.  We all know that cussing was done.  Just 'cause you're on a cable channel doesn't mean you HAVE to cuss.  It kind of takes away from the story IMO because you're wrapping your head around hearing such vulgarity in show not on a cable prime station.

[Ina123]

About Joan passing out those gifts to everyone and having a personal comment to make to each, wasn't her assistant whispering names and personal info to her as she approached each one? I got the impression that it was all for show not that she really cared.

[txhorns79]

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About Joan passing out those gifts to everyone and having a personal comment to make to each, wasn't her assistant whispering names and personal info to her as she approached each one?  I got the impression that it was all for show not that she really cared.

That was my impression too.  She wanted everyone to think she cared, so they would return the favor to her by giving her great lighting, a good wardrobe, camera angles, etc.   

[annzeepark914]

4 hours ago, Evagirl said:

Agree!  I didn't think the vulgarity was necessary.  We all know that cussing was done.  Just 'cause you're on a cable channel doesn't mean you HAVE to cuss.  It kind of takes away from the story IMO because you're wrapping your head around hearing such vulgarity in show not on a cable prime station.

But then, how would the viewer know what kind of vulgar, nasty man Jack Warner was?  I don't like the vulgarity either but Warner was a controlling creep and it needs to be shown what kind of coarse environment these two women were working in.

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder that this is the Pilot episode topic; there are topics for other discussion, not directly related to the episode here - The Real-Life "Feud" as well as the Small Talk topic for this forum. Posts that aren't primarily about the episode have been and will be moved to one of those topics. Thank you.

[atlantaloves]

And let's give a great big shout out to the terrific character actress Jackie Hoffman who is stealing every scene she is in...LOVE HER...I am enjoying the crap out of this series, have already watched it twice....so well done, I was totally surprised, and love the clothes and sets. It's wonderful and let's face it we all need to escape into old hollywood sometimes! Good going gals. And, boy what a first rate supporting cast, it is always swell to see Kathy Bates in anything!  

[SPLAIN]

I am enjoying this show so far.

A couple of things I wanted to point out that bothered me. I am nitpicking here. The pastel lipsticks. I know they were the thing in the 60s. I remember my older sisters wearing them. Going through my family's photo albums, the pastel lip colors don't appear so gaudy as they did on this series. I wondered if this was done intentionally for the series. Even movies from that era, I don't see the lipstick colors being so bright and tacky looking.  At times it appeared Jessica's lipstick went outside of the lip line. The second thing is, I was not at all impressed with Joan's home. I would have expected something more lavish. I know during that period of time she was living beyond her means, but her home would surely retain that luxury and lavish look to it. It looked so dated. 

I can't wait for the next installment. I am a huge Alfred Molina fan. I adore his work. 

[psychoticstate]

17 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

I am enjoying this show so far.

A couple of things I wanted to point out that bothered me. I am nitpicking here. The pastel lipsticks. I know they were the thing in the 60s. I remember my older sisters wearing them. Going through my family's photo albums, the pastel lip colors don't appear so gaudy as they did on this series. I wondered if this was done intentionally for the series. Even movies from that era, I don't see the lipstick colors being so bright and tacky looking.  At times it appeared Jessica's lipstick went outside of the lip line. The second thing is, I was not at all impressed with Joan's home. I would have expected something more lavish. I know during that period of time she was living beyond her means, but her home would surely retain that luxury and lavish look to it. It looked so dated. 

I can't wait for the next installment. I am a huge Alfred Molina fan. I adore his work. 

I can't answer to the lipstick but I can provide a slight answer to your point about Joan's home.

In reality, Joan sold her Brentwood home in 1956 to Donald O'Connor.  Her career had been slowing down and the home was expensive to maintain.  I believe all of her children were away at school and she shut many of the rooms up to economize.  After she married Al Steele, she moved to New York, since that was his home base.  She later said that she always felt New York was her home, more so than Los Angeles but her career kept her in L.A. for many years.  In any event, I doubt Joan's home looked like what we're seeing on the show at the time she sold it.

I believe the show is trying to show that Joan was indeed in some financial dire straits at the time she signed on to Baby Jane.  Mostly because she and Al were renovating their apartment in NY at the time of his death and had taken out loans against his salary.  He was only in his fifties when he died so it didn't seem like such a terrible idea when they did it.  I'm guessing they didn't want to show both Joan's NY pad and the rental she would be in while filming in L.A. so they opted to consolidate things and have her still residing in L.A.   

[Coffeecup]

Just watched the first episode on one of the FX late-night repeats. I really liked it. Very impressed with Susan Sarandon. In the publicity photos for the series I didn't think she looked much like Bette, but after watching the episode I changed my mind. Her Bette makeup and hairstyles are spot on. She does a great job with Bette's body language, mannerisms and confrontational style of speaking.

Love the period music. I burst out laughing when I heard the old song "Wives Should Always Be Lovers Too," as Joan and Bette were entering Hedda Hopper's house.

[annzeepark914]

On 3/7/2017 at 11:01 PM, aradia22 said:

For whatever reason... styling, makeup, etc. I actually thought Sarandon looked younger than Lange. It did seem a little odd thinking back to how the real life Crawford and Davis looked in the movies around that time and then seeing these actresses. But I appreciated that they made the effort to film little snippets when they referenced something so it was easier to keep picturing them as their respective characters and not get as sidetracked in making comparisons to the real people.

Jackie Hoffmann is doing a great job. I cracked up when she corrected him that JC was waiting on the patio after he'd started up the steps. I'm happy to hear that the real Mamacita was Austrian. It was confusing me why they would cast Hoffmann if the character was supposed to be Hispanic. 

 

I believe Sarandon has had some very good plastic surgery because she no longer has protruding eyes.  And she looks better.  The hairstyle helps too. Even from the side she has that Bette Davis look down pat, the way BD stood.  Yes, when they showed that snippet of All About Eve, at first I thought they were showing the real movie and then realized it was SS coming down the stairs (smart move cause it didn't mentally pull us out of this production at all).

Oh boy...give me more Mamacita.  As I said previously, I think of Fred Armisen whenever I see Mamacita.  Loved that scene when Aldrich was 1/4 of the way up the stairs and she told him Joan was out on the patio.  He did a perfect 180 degree turn & came back down the stairs so fast.  Interesting that he thought he could go up to her bedroom! 

[NutMeg]

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At times it appeared Jessica's lipstick went outside of the lip line

I may be wrong, but have a remote memory of reading that there was a time when lipstick outside the lip line was encouraged with a view of making the lip look bigger. Which seems weird. Has anybody else heard/read that to be the case before fillers? 

[Nordly Beaumont]

1 hour ago, NutMeg said:

I may be wrong, but have a remote memory of reading that there was a time when lipstick outside the lip line was encouraged with a view of making the lip look bigger. Which seems weird. Has anybody else heard/read that to be the case before fillers?

Definitely. Lipstick was also used to give the lips a different shape. Look at Bette Davis, she used lipstick straight across her upper lip, erasing the "cupid's bow" of the upper lip. Lucille Ball used lipstick to give her upper lip a unique shape where the outer edges were fuller. Marilyn Monroe also used this trick to plump her pout. 

[NutMeg]

4 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Definitely. Lipstick was also used to give the lips a different shape. Look at Bette Davis, she used lipstick straight across her upper lip, erasing the "cupid's bow" of the upper lip. Lucille Ball used lipstick to give her upper lip a unique shape where the outer edges were fuller. Marilyn Monroe also used this trick to plump her pout. 

Thank you, I kind of knew there was some lipstick shenanigans going on, but your post is most insightful. Thank you, very much.

[Puddy]

On 3/6/2017 at 6:37 AM, Chaos Theory said:

So far I love it.  Don't care about Sarandon's politics.  I try not to let an actors politics inform my enjoyment of their acting.  It mostly works.  Then again I don't watch too many interviews, news or entertainment show.

Alison Wright is playing another secretary.  Think she's a Russian spy?

Lot of swearing and lot of smoking.  I am going to enjoy this.

i did find it interesting how sexist Tucci's charcter was.  He didn't even pretend to be anything else.  Between the vulgar language, the animosity and the slapping the woman on the ass.  

Then again women tended to be their own worst enemy.  Jedda Hopper looking for dirt and getting bored and annoyed when Davis and Crawford behaved themselves at dinner. 

Yeah I think I am going to enjoy this's. 

Hey what do you think will happen if only one of the women get nominated?  

Not a character.  He is playing a real person that really treated people that way.

I am sure what we saw was child's play compared to what it was really like back then.

I think they softened it a bit for television.

On 3/8/2017 at 9:31 AM, Ina123 said:

About Joan passing out those gifts to everyone and having a personal comment to make to each, wasn't her assistant whispering names and personal info to her as she approached each one? I got the impression that it was all for show not that she really cared.

Joan was all about manners but she also "worked" people.  I loved how the sincerity was switched on an off like a light switch - and of course the assistant was working the switch.  I am glad they showed an example, even if it was brief.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Puddy

[Inquisitionist]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 10:25 PM, bmoore4026 said:

I'm lovin' it so far, even though Mark Valley is way to hot to be playing Gary Merrill.

Anyone know why he is credited as Dr. Paul Carlson at IMDb?

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 10:39 PM, SeanC said:

It's kind of interesting that they've cast the main roles with actresses noticeably older than the characters were at this point; Crawford and Davis were in their early 50s at this point, but Lange is in her late 60s and Sarandon is 70.  It's particularly notable in the latter case, since they've got teenager Kiernan Shipka as her bio-daughter.

And yet, I think both Sarandon and Lange look better than the younger characters they are playing did at the time.

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 11:55 PM, voiceover said:

Mark Valley's a serviceable Gary M, who I always thought was dead sexy anyway.   And the reveal of Sarandon-as-Bette-as-Baby Jane: YEOW.  Delish.

Haven't seen MV in ages.  What a treat to see him show up here.  "Peter" looked familiar but I did not recognize him as Reed Diamond till someone mentioned it here.  His face seems thinner than I remember.

[voiceover]

On 3/7/2017 at 8:27 PM, blaase said:

 

Personally I don't consider the silent film era as "Hollywood" 

 Ouch.  I can't wrap by head around that opinion.  And am moving my rant to the Small Talk thread where it probably belongs.

p.s.: So there have been an alarming number of posts vetting the stupid joke I made about "Blank is the new blank."  It. Was. A. Joke.  

Edited March 11, 2017 by voiceover

[bmoore4026]

11 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

Anyone know why he is credited as Dr. Paul Carlson at IMDb?

Obviously, it was a mistake.  I edit it, but I'm lazy.

[Milburn Stone]

Is this show based on a book, or some sort of other actual research? Not a rhetorical question, I'd actually like to know. Because there were things in the episode I found very hard to buy. The main thing was, I found it very hard to believe that Bette Davis came up with her own makeup on the first day of shooting. Usually, unless it's an Ed Wood picture or something, these things are conversed about and decided in advance of the shoot--in a discussion between the actor, the director, and the makeup person. Unless, well, maybe this was Bette Davis' way of "getting the conversation started"--a conversation that had only one possible conclusion in her mind. So, is that how it went down? Or is the show pretty much just making up stuff to suit itself?

[JudyObscure]

I'm enjoying this no end, but TCM is my main thing, so I've seen dozens of films with these fabulous women and love them equally. I just think it's sad that they are best known by many people for this late in life horror picture and not, say, "Now Voyager", or "Mildred Pierce."  Early in "The Feud," they mention that the studios aren't making women's pictures anymore, and sadly, they still aren't making very many, at least not like the hundreds of great films about women that these two and Barbara Stanwyck made.

This is all great fun, and I like Sarandon's Davis well enough, but I really don't understand casting Jessica Lange as Crawford.  Joan's full throated voice and striking features were larger than life.  Lange's tiny nose and eyes, obvious face lift and whispery voice just don't seem anything like Joan to me.  On the other hand I do like the way she's showing Joan's vulnerability underneath the carefully learned style that the studios taught young actresses in the 30's and 40's.

Re: the lips.  Both Joan and Bette decided, early in their career, to style their lips in a distinctive manner.  Bette went straight across the bow and Joan developed the wide bow by going outside her lip line toward the corners.  I think they both looked prettier with their natural lips but maybe not as distinctive. 

I disagree with whoever said Joan was coarse looking.  Maybe a little hard sometimes, but never coarse.  Joan always reminds me of the line by Norma Desmond about the silent movies. "We didn't need lines we had faces."

http://www.classicmoviefavorites.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/JoanCrawford_t614.jpg

[aradia22]

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Is this show based on a book, or some sort of other actual research? Not a rhetorical question, I'd actually like to know. 

I found this quote in Variety. "Murphy optioned the feature-length screenplay “Best Actress” from screenwriters Jaffe Cohen and Michael Zam and expanded it into eight episodes." I didn't find out if those screenwriters based it on a book but I did dig up a blog post from 2009 talking about the script so it's been floating around for a while. http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/2009/10/best-actress.html

[Lorna Mae]

Milburn Stone, according to Considine's book, although it may not have been on the first day, Davis did create that makeup effect. What inspired her was starlets in the 1920s and '30s, who so loved the way they looked in stage makeup that they wouldn't take it off for days at a time. They'd keep spackling on more and more pancake and powder, and of course, aged horribly and prematurely. Even if it didn't happen exactly as shown here, it was her idea.

Spoiler

Meanwhile, I hope IMDB is wrong and we are going to see more of Kiernan Shipka as B.D. Specifically, I hope we get the scene where Crawford tells her not to associate with her twin daughters, because she's raising them to be ladies.

Edited March 12, 2017 by saoirse
Spoiler tag things not in/about episode

[Milburn Stone]

Thanks, @Lorna Mae. Good to know Shaun Considine's book backs up the story to at least some extent.

I tried to find online anything that says that Feud (the show) uses Considine's book as source material (in similar fashion to how Ryan Murphy's The People Vs. O.J. Simpson very openly used Jeffrey Toobin's O.J. book) but came up empty. Found material that said that stuff in the show is also in Considine's book, but found nothing that said it is in the show because it is in Considine's book, i.e. that the book is one of the show's sources. I'd like to see confirmation of that somewhere.

As it is, I find it very interesting to know that BD came up with Baby Jane's look, but I would bet a small amount of money that it didn't go down like it did in this episode, that is, with a grand slow-clap revelation to the director and entire crew on the soundstage. Much more likely that the makeup person came over to Aldrich and said quietly, "Miss Davis is ready for you to take a look at her in her dressing room now," at which point Aldrich went back with the makeup person to the dressing room, saw what BD had achieved, and gave his enthusiastic assent. If anyone has authoritative information that it went down any different than that, I'd like to know.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[Cupcake04]

On March 5, 2017 at 11:13 PM, Growsonwalls said:

So far I think Jessica Lange is stealing the series. Bette Davis was such a larger-than-life character that I feel like Susan Sarandon (even though she's good) can't really capture the real Bette Davis experience. But Lange's insecure, lady-like, passive-aggressive Joan is a wonderful portrayal. I'm going to keep watching for Lange.

Too funny....I have the exact opposite take! I felt like I was watching Bette, but not so with Joan...all I could see was Jessica Lange trying to play Joan and it was distracting me.

[formerlyfreedom]

Talk about the episode, please. Posts are going to be removed that are off topic from the episode; discussion of Davis and Crawford overall go in either The Real Life Feud topic or in Small Talk.

[eXiled]

Voices and accents really caught my attention as I watched the pilot. Sarandon was smart to not attempt to imitate Davis's voice. She made up for it with her demeanor, the walk, and her mannerisms. Lange's southern accent kept peeking through, though, and I found it distracting. Zeta-Jones used the same accent she used in Chicago, which included turning every "R" sound into a "W" sound. I've no knowledge of Joan Blondell's voice but I was so tickled to see Kathy Bates that even if she were way off base, I doubt I would care.

Stanley Tucci is playing Warner in exactly the way I'd picture a studio magnet of that era -- way before political correctness and watch groups that picketed every misstep. During that time only white men mattered. Laying up there looking like screaming death, yet, his gender and power assured him that he would always be allowed into some young thing's bed. Men like that still exist today and are in very powerful positions.

[Milburn Stone]

11 hours ago, eXiled said:

I've no knowledge of Joan Blondell's voice but I was so tickled to see Kathy Bates that even if she were way off base, I doubt I would care.

She was.

Haven't watched Episode Two yet, but I've already decided that the only way to enjoy this show is to view it as an "alternate universe" version of events, taking place on another planet that is somehow an analog of ours.

[noveltylibrary65]

On 3/5/2017 at 11:39 PM, SeanC said:

It's kind of interesting that they've cast the main roles with actresses noticeably older than the characters were at this point; Crawford and Davis were in their early 50s at this point, but Lange is in her late 60s and Sarandon is 70.  It's particularly notable in the latter case, since they've got teenager Kiernan Shipka as her bio-daughter.

Well much like "Whatever Happened..." it's their project so they have to be in the roles:)

On 3/5/2017 at 11:53 PM, merylinkid said:

Hollywood history.   No fan of Susan Sarandon but I am willing to overlook this for a deep dive into this relationship.   And Sarandon buries herself in the role enough that I am not watching Sarandon play Bette Davis.   She has the clenched teeth down pat.

I agree physically she has it down, but her voice sort of ruins it, sounds too much like herself.  And I don't hear Bette's New England accent.

[noveltylibrary65]

On 3/6/2017 at 10:41 AM, Trixie Belden said:

Also, I swear the character Mamacita kept reminding me of Ruth Buzzi.

I recognized that actress from Kissing Jessica Stein, a movie over 15 years old.  Very distinct face!

[noveltylibrary65]

On 3/7/2017 at 8:35 AM, sasha206 said:

Agreed!

Casting is brilliant though.  Both of them resemble their characters.  However, Lange's plastic surgery and filler face make Crawford look far older and worse than Davis.  Crawford still looked fairly attractive when she shot Baby Jane.  

I think Sarandon's facework hurts it too, because BD definitely look a lot older especially in Baby Jane's heavy makeup.  That was the whole point, to add to the creepiness of staying in "little girl land".

[StrictTime]

On 3/6/2017 at 3:59 AM, marymon said:

It is odd that Sarandon is not even attempting the signature Bette Davis  voice.

It did have me chuckle a few times and it just got the right feel of the time period.

So far Judy Davis ithe stand out.

I agree about Judy Davis.  Her skill level is so far beyond that of SS or JL--it's quite evident.  I just want to watch for her scenes alone.  

And what genius casting  Kathy Bates as Joan Blondell!  Who would have imagined it?

[Ina123]

I just don't think Kathy Bates' portrayal of Joan Blondell in that time period is that far off. I think it's great casting.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Ina123

[Milburn Stone]

3 hours ago, Ina123 said:

I just don't think Kathy Bates' portrayal of Joan Blondell in that time period is that far off. I think it's great casting.

I actually think the writing is the main culprit. I agree there's a physical resemblance, and Kathy Bates is doing her best with the words she's been given to say. The problem is those words. They're not written with anything like Blondell's "voice" in mind. (I don't mean the sonic quality of her voice, I mean "voice" in the sense that the words a person uses will express his or her essence.) The same is true for just about every character! Which is the most disappointing thing about the show.

[Ina123]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I actually think the writing is the main culprit. I agree there's a physical resemblance, and Kathy Bates is doing her best with the words she's been given to say. The problem is those words. They're not written with anything like Blondell's "voice" in mind. (I don't mean the sonic quality of her voice, I mean "voice" in the sense that the words a person uses will express his or her essence.) The same is true for just about every character! Which is the most disappointing thing about the show.

This I can agree with. No one is even trying to really capture the voices or in some cases mannerisms. Bette Davis was always very deliberate with her words and she sashayed everywhere she went. I don't mean as a character, but as herself. Lange seems to try but fails. Sarandon isn't even trying.

[Pepper Mostly]

On 3/6/2017 at 11:11 AM, ghoulina said:

I would totally buy the soundtrack. Such a delight. 

On a related note, anyone want to recommend their favorite Crawford and/or Davis biography?

Late to the party @ghoulina, but I'm a huge Bette Davis fan, and I read her book "The Lonely Life" as well as "Mother Goddamn" and "The Girl Who Walked Home Alone" by Charlotte Chandler. Bette was one of a kind and I really admired her.

[DisneyBoy]

I finally got to watch the first episode last night and I was really really disappointed. I didn't go in with high expectations because I heard some of people's complaints about casting, etc. Still the whole thing to me just seemed incredibly weak and bizarrely silly. I haven't had a viewing experience like this ever.

The Positives: the costumes and the cinematography were very strong. I thought the sets were very good as well, although I agree Joan Crawford's living room seemed astonishingly small compared to what we had previously seen in Mommie Dearest. I found myself wishing they could have just dug out that set, but since it was completely authentic with the right fabrics and so on, I can only imagine that they sold it off piece-by-piece after Mommie Dearest wrapped up so many years ago. That thing must have cost a fortune!

I like seeing Sarandon involved in this project, so that's a positive. And Alfred Molina, someone I don't typically enjoy, immediately endeared himself to me. I think this may be the most I've enjoyed his work ever.

The Negatives: where do I start? I'll start with the script that spent almost the entire episode forcing all the characters to not so subtly recap elements of their lives. I could not believe the amount of exposition I was hearing. It became so overdone that I actually stopped looking forward to the next scenes because I knew they were going to have the same structure. When Stanley Tucci started going on about what had happened in the past I think I rolled my eyes because I just wanted someone to have a normal sounding conversation. I felt like I was being spoon-fed information the entire episode. I know it can be difficult to bring a new audience up to speed on who characters are in a Pilot, but this was a complete fail for me in accomplishing that goal gracefully.

Which brings me to the second issue with the writing which is the unbelievably direct, blunt and almost condescending dialogue. There wasn't any subtlety. I guess because of the similar era I hoped we'd see something along the lines of Mad Men in terms of subtle or clever dialogue. Instead everyone was just telling us things instead of showing us things and it was driving me bonkers. I was hearing all about how quotable this series is but I honestly can't think of a single line that impressed me. The cursing felt a little overkill and it seemed like the actors themselves didn't even know how to deliver it because they're never asked to in other projects. Stanley Tucci in particular just didn't seem to know how to deliver that line.

Starting out with that ridiculous framing device of having people interviewed did not help. I especially dislike Catherine Zeta-Jones and her weird voice so having her try to play Olivia de Havilland was wrong. And then on top of that they have her saying these extremely trite things that I don't believe for a second Olivia would have ever said. It wasn't even cheesy or campy as much as bad.

It's like the tone of the piece is so far removed from anything I would consider adult material that I don't know what to make of it. I feel like this was written for five year-olds, do you know what I mean?

I'll admit I wouldn't have known why it was important to be the actress seated on the left in that photo op moment where they were both signing the contract, but by the time I heard those journalists explaining to us that there's about to be a showdown I was so worn out by everything else that was spoon fed to me that I still wanted to turn the whole thing off. I know how dramatic that sounds, but that's really how I felt! Like the show thought I was a complete moron and had no finesse whatsoever when it came to providing information about who these people were.

And it was so interesting to me that what seemed to be the start of the feud was not even shown on screen. We heard Joan Crawford describe how Betty Davis moved in on one of her boyfriends, but if that was really where they started disliking each other shouldn't we have seen it?

My biggest beef was that we come into this episode with the lead characters already basically hating each other to the point that I can't imagine how this is going to build into anything. I feel like I missed whatever got them to this point...and it's episode one!

Quote

I see Jessica as at least making some effort to resemble Joan, while Susan just looks like herself.  That isn't to say they aren't both doing well in the parts, just that if Susan wasn't in the period costumes, I wouldn't have any idea she was supposed to be playing Bette Davis. 

I also found it confusing how Sarandon looked rather youthful compared to Davis in WHTBJ and Lange looked quite old compared to how decent Crawford looked at the time.

I'm liking Lange more than I thought I would as Crawford after all the negative feedback, but the script is doing her no favors. The way she tried to throw herself at the director when discussing her allowance was silly. I'd say cartoonish but cartoons are fun.

The music was hugely distracting to me and again, felt cartoonish. You guys liked it?

The liberties taken with facts were so glaring I couldn't believe it. There's no way Davis showed up for principal photography on day one with no clue how Baby Jane would look. Studios and wardrobe and the director discuss and approve those things. But nope - here they leave it to her to whip something up over lunch! Ta-daaa!

...

I just don't get the approach they are taking at all. I hope the next episodes are a little stronger because I felt embarrassed watching this. I really did. It was awkward in so many places.

And I'm not sure how they think they'll be allowed to write like this about the Royal family for season two without getting sued to high heaven!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm finally getting around to watching Feud. I have no idea why it took me so long! I read Mommie Dearest a zillion times in middle school but I have never watched the entire movie from beginning to end, so I was expecting lots of bitchiness from Joan. I agree that there is a lot of Susan Sarandon in her portrayal of Bette, but I can also see some very studied efforts to channel BD. When she was standing on the stage during the curtain call, her body language, even from a distance, was BD as was the way she didn't move her head but shifted her eyes. Loooooooove the costumes. This show is worth watching just for all the fabulous dresses!

As for the portrayal of Jack's attitude about Bette, he reacted like most people who lose even the tiniest bit of power or privilege: he accused her of being a selfish, unreasonable, ungrateful bitch for not wanting to be under his control. How dare she?!

Edited January 5, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo