S01.E15: Jack Pearson's Son

[llewis823]

On 2/14/2017 at 9:26 PM, msani19 said:

My shallow comment is the way Mandy Moore moves her mouth when she talks irritates the crap outta me!

Shallow? Maybe. True? YES!! I have always thought that too. I can't describe it but I noticed it in that movie where she is a teen dying - can't think of the name of it now. It's like when you see a badly dubbed over old film where the mouth movements and the words don't quite match up! Yeah, that's it.

Okay, here is what I am starting to think re: how Jack died...

First of all, I don't think we'll find that out until next season. It is like the penultimate moment in this show. There are still lots of stories to tell going back and forth between now and various times in the Big Three's first 15 years with their dad. Then again, maybe that will be the cliffhanger in the season finale?? Whatever the case...

They showed us Jack was drinking too much in one of the first few shows. But he got her the necklace and promised to be 100% there. And he did. Until this incident last night.

Now we see him very down, depressed and he picks up a drink again. And if the scene had continued, I would put money on it that when he put that empty glass down, he said, "Keep 'em coming". 

I think one of a few different scenarios:

- Kevin remembers how much of a perfectionist his dad was and how much pressure was on him - like the situation Randall is in right now. And he knows what his dad did because of that pressure - either drank himself into a car accident where he was killed OR maybe he killed himself while Rebecca was on tour as a result of a combination of all the pressure and the excessive alcohol.  

If Jack committed suicide, it would explain why Kevin ran so quickly to Randall - knowing he could commit suicide like their dad did and either scenario (suicide or drunk driving accident) would explain why it hurts Kate to talk about it at all - so many years later.

And a sidebar - if Jack did commit suicide, maybe he wrote a note and told Miguel to take care of his family.

[talktoomuch]

Also if Jack committed suicide, the show foreshadowed it with Randall's intense concern about his coworker's (imagined?) aborted attempt at the company Christmas party. 

Damn you PTV posters. I didn't even care about the when/why of Jack's death before I started reading these forums.

[Katy M]

29 minutes ago, ferretrick said:

Did anybody understand the last word Randall said to Kevin on the phone, the one that really clued Kevin in that Randall was losing it? It almost sounded like he called him Dave, but if so, I don't get the significance.

I couldn't tell either, but I thought maybe he called him dad, forgetting who he was talking to.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Court said:

 

@Winston9-DT3 Come join me in my Miguel hate. Irrational or not, I will remain here. 

I think you mean WhosThatGirl.  I defend Miguel.  : )

1 hour ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

This is sort of OT in a way, but I've had several friends tell me that the actor who plays Toby wears a fat suit. Is this true?

B/c if it is, that makeup job is STELLAR.

It makes me think it is NOT true b/c Miguel's makeup looks like it was done by a middle school drama club.

He's just heavily padded on the torso, not wearing facial prosthetics or anything.  Though I agree about Miguel's makeup.  Yikes.  

[luna1122]

If Jack commits suicide, I'm probably out. That doesn't seem remotely in his nature, and unless we got a lot more background and groundwork and motivation and reason and history, it would just seem like an incredibly cheap manipulation to make everyone's head's explode from weeping so copiously.

Which means that's probably just what they'll go for. Ugh.

[saber5055]

Horse Guy being able to sexually assault/harass women PAYING to attend the camp his parents own, because his parents own it? Lawsuit waiting to happen, and some jail time, too, for the parents/camp owners. This show also cares nothing about professions. Last week Randall was forced to do "family time" instead of concentrate on the job (and income) he is going to lose, now Kevin is never going to work again. Maybe they can practice flipping burgers together. Randall will be good at upselling fries with that.

[Guest]

Maybe Kevin and Randall can both go to work for Kate since she should be able to own that camp if she sues.  If Kevin is able to come back (career wise) from walking out on the Manny set and from a play (even self-produced) it'll be too much.

While I am not mad at Kevin for his choice, I am irritated that Sloane and her feelings have now been sacrificed twice on the altar of Kevin's self-actualization.  First the Sophie revelation and now the "being Jack Pearson's son" revelation.

I liked Miguel's speech to Kevin, and I usually dislike him. 

[Kohola3]

Quote

He's just heavily padded on the torso, not wearing facial prosthetics or anything.

According to the articles I have seen, he is also wearing fake jowls.

Quote

That doesn't seem remotely in his nature, and unless we got a lot more background and groundwork and motivation and reason and history,

I agree.  The two month dating gig 20 years ago doesn't seem like it's significant enough to send him into a spiraling depression and suicide.  Seems more like something that, with a little soul searching, would end up with Jack coming to the realization that it wasn't that big a deal. It's not like she had a kid with him or something.

[AuxArx]

Whoever does the casting for this show is really good.  Those teenage siblings actually look like they could grow up to be the present day Big 3.

Will Kevin get fined for leaving his play like that?  A friend who studies theater once told me that actors who forget lines or otherwise mess up during a performance get fined. 

Loved Kevin being there (finally) for his brother, but Katie Couric is gonna really let him have it in his next nightmare.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I've said before that for some reason the writers require that Rebecca must always be wrong.  I try to remember that at the beginning of each episode. . .

I actually thought Kevin was a jerk for leaving Sloane in the lurch.  You say something before the show starts.  It really undercut the "Kevin is such a great guy-just like his dad" moment with Randall.

I liked Sanjay.  I thought his stepping in was more helping Randall than trying to look good.

I've never had so many mixed emotions than with the scene of Kevin racing to help Randall. Half of me was "Yay, Kevin" and the other half was "Kevin, you shit, look at all the other people you're hurting by doing this." I thought it was a nice touch that Sanjay wasn't as douchey as it seemed they were making him. I totally agree with your take on that scene.

9 hours ago, breezy424 said:

 I didn't really feel William this episode.  Just like last week, he doesn't understand that Randall has a job.  I know the man is dying but he does seem insensitive to his son's other obligations.  I'm not totally letting Randall off the hook here because of what he wants for his dad but at the same time, William doesn't seem to see the pressure Randall is under.  Yeah, I know.  It's a debatable topic.

Yeah, I figure the one time in your life it can all be about you, that you can be completely selfish and inconsiderate, might just be when you're on the verge of death. So William doesn't bother me.

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

A small nitpick here. While we are not all created equal, I took offense at the characterization of the hospice nurse. I work for hospice and she was not very well portrayed.  We do everything in our power to give a good quality of life to our patients.  We don't deny things unless they are life threatening and we certainly don't stand by looking all pouty if a patient is unhappy.  They are expected to be unhappy - they're dying.  We understand and support any kind of mood.  I guess it was supposed to be another straw on the camel's back but it was a bit heavy handed.

Absolutely - the hospice people who helped with my Mom were wonderful - and they took all kinds of abuse from my father, who was kind of like Jack's Dad for the most part.

11 hours ago, msani19 said:

I feel like that was an intentional dick move, whether or not he was aware of what Jack knew.

It was exactly like Horse Dick's move - only in a better looking package.

As for Rebecca dating her bandmate back in the day - I guess it's clear she and Jack didn't do any kind of deep dive before they got together. Don't most people share their stories about their previous relationships (or at least acknowledge that they existed)? Maybe it's just me and the mister. Seems like Jack should have known about that long before.

There was a line that made me wonder about the manner of Jack's death - and forgive me, I can't quite remember it. I believe it was in reference to William, but I thought it foreshadowed Jack's death somehow, which was something like "didn't want him to have died while no one was looking." Anyone remember that line?

[cardigirl]

Is it wrong to hate Katie Couric? She always seems a little smug to me.   And add me to the shallow people who are annoyed with the way Mandy Moore moves her mouth.  Not sure why it bugs me so, but it does.  Kind of distracting.

I enjoyed this episode a lot. Especially the whole conversation with Toby and Kate.  When he told her had felt suicidal at times in his life, and she said something like "I don't love that" but in a gentle way, I was really taken with their relationship.  

Please don't let Jack die in an alcohol-fueled car accident on Valentine's Day after arguing with his wife.  Ugh.

Edited February 15, 2017 by cardigirl

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

According to the articles I have seen, he is also wearing fake jowls.

Did anyone see him on The Real?  It looks like that's where he made the remark.  I wonder if he was joking.  I'd be really surprised if he is wearing fake jowls.  He looks as jowly on the show as he does in real life and in other roles.  

[mtlchick]

A lot to process. 

 

Horse Dick: "My parents own this camp, so byeeee!"  I would LOVE to know what excuse he gave them to get her kicked out.  Because that is grounds for a lawsuit. 

William in some ways reminds me of my dad and his cancer struggle: too stubborn to listen to others.  Thankfully my dad is doing ok (the cancer is not being detected, but there is some infection in his lungs) and wanted to be left to his own devices, but our family has to tell him "we're here for you, but you need to let us help." 

Kevin: sweet that he decided to run to Randall when he figured something was very wrong.  They were always at odds when they were younger and the past year was him making up for lost moments.  I don't think I'm a fan of him bolting from the play though: it was a bit convenient and contrived to have his "do the right thing" moment.  And Sloane gets shafted AGAIN. Boo.

Jack/Rebecca: I think BOTH sides are at fault.  Yes, Rebecca should have disclosed she and Ben dated even for a short time.  But Jack should have been secure enough in the marriage not to blow up at her.  That fact that he is signals to me that there are some pieces we have yet to see and that he may be prone to blow ups.  I'm still thinking alcoholism comes into play concerning his death and he dies while Rebecca is away.

[Kohola3]

8 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

He looks as jowly on the show as he does in real life and in other roles.  

Maybe.  Certainly looks like a slimmer face here.

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Jack/Rebecca: I think BOTH sides are at fault.  Yes, Rebecca should have disclosed she and Ben dated even for a short time.  But Jack should have been secure enough in the marriage not to blow up at her. 

I think he was on the verge of blowing up at her and that was just the thing that pushed it over the edge.  I think he was burned out, tired, and knowing he was about to be on his own with three teenagers for weeks.  I think the blow-up was inevitable unless something changed.  Overall, I think he is secure enough in the marriage that he wouldn't have reacted like that without the other stressors.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Maybe.  Certainly looks like a slimmer face here.

I suspect that's just a great shot of him.  He's got his head jutting forward to minimize the chin.  Look at this one, also from 2016.  (Wait, never mind, I think that's from 2012.  I'll find a better, recent one.)

 

2016-

Edited February 15, 2017 by Guest

[LexieLily]

40 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

There was a line that made me wonder about the manner of Jack's death - and forgive me, I can't quite remember it. I believe it was in reference to William, but I thought it foreshadowed Jack's death somehow, which was something like "didn't want him to have died while no one was looking." Anyone remember that line?

I remember that line specifically because it stood out to me that Randall thought to say it. Randall says different things sometimes in regards to William dying (Kate and Kevin do too, on a lesser scale and obviously not about William) that makes me think he must be speaking from experience when Jack died. Something might have happened in that month/two months when Rebecca was on tour and maybe the teenage Big Three were too wrapped up in their own high school lives to notice something going on with their dad.

[Crs97]

Kohola, I am so glad you brought up the hospice nurse because that characterization actually required me to yell at the screen.  She was pouty and petty with her refusal to give him a Coke and then the "It wasn't my fault" comment.  My dad's hospice nurses were lifesavers.  They were gentle and kind and were helpful to both my parents while my dad was dying.  We should be offended on behalf of all hospice nurses everywhere.

[sadiegirl1999]

OK so if Toby *is* wearing prosthetic jowls...that makeup is phenomenal and Miguel's sucks. The mystery continues....

I too caught the "don't die while no one is looking" comment and thinks it's related to Jack's death. Which also explains a lot of the Kate guilt.

Finally, I do not have issue with Kevin running from the play w/o telling anyone. It was definitely used for dramatic purposes, just the way that Beth was "conveniently" gone so that Randall could have his breakdown.

[bichonblitz]

Rebecca did have "something of her own". She was singing in a bar several nights a week while Jack was home taking care of the kids. Jack is still my hero! 

Why didn't Randall ask Rebecca to help him with the kids while Beth was gone? It would of at least relieved some of the stress for Randall having to do it all. Rebecca doesn't seem to have much interaction with her adult children or grand children for that matter. Also, Randall having to run home because William wasn't cooperating with the nurse. Let the dying man have a coke, for god's sake. Wasn't she there to basically make him as comfortable as possible during his last days? 

The scene with Kate not being able to talk about Jack's death really hit home for me.  I couldn't talk about my mom or how she died for years without breaking down and crying, I was 17 when she died.  

Edited February 15, 2017 by bichonblitz

[saber5055]

AuxArx, Kevin won't get fined for walking out on his play, but of course the show "did not go on," and the NYT (right?) critic was in the audience. The play would be raked to the nines in the newspaper and will close immediately. End of that story, end of Kevin's $ investment and end of Kevin's acting career, unless some future producer is REALLY crazy and hires him for some two-bit commercial. He screwed his career AND Sloane's play. On another topic, I still like Miguel, especially after his talk at Kevin.

[Biggie B]

Oy vey!! So many contrasting opinions and I feel like a pendulum reading them all - I'll agree with one point of view and then read an opposing interpretation and agree with that as well (e.g., Miguel). Lots of extremely observant people who post here, with many extremely valid and thought-out opinions. And those who are just going with their gut feelings make a lot of sense as well. Great reading, lots of meat on the bone.

I find myself liking current-day Miguel more than flashback Miguel. I thought his scene with jittery Kevin was well done. What he said did seem to truly resonate with Kevin and gave Kevin some clarity and focus. I'm glad he acknowledged that Kevin doesn't like him, even if he said it in a sort of passive-aggressive way. At least he put the subject out there, for better or worse. Perhaps that's something they can discuss another time, or perhaps their future encounters won't be as awkward or chilly.

When my dad's dementia began to ramp up, he used to call the police and tell them that his home aide was holding him hostage in his apartment. He, too, locked one of them out...the police responded to his 911 call, and mercifully, my brother in law just happened to be arriving for a visit just as the cops were arriving, and it all got sorted out. William of course isn't suffering from dementia, but that whole scene brought back many severe memories for me.

Toby...wow, I actually was OK with him for I think the first time since the show premiered. Other than his one mention of how well-hung he is, he actually did NOT harp on sex, sex, sex, now, now, now. I do appreciate that the two of them really do need to get to know each other, but on the other hand, having an afternoon-long Q&A session isn't enough. Getting to really know someone (I feel) is a process that comes through experiencing  things day in and day out: the good, the bad, and the ugly, the mundane things and the life-changing things. The more time you spend together, the more those in-depth conversations will flow. But I totally get where they were going with this: Kate's inability to (yet) talk about her father's death was the means for Toby to achieve an end, namely, not rushing into marriage and making their engagement open-ended. Why he decided to tell Kate of that plan two seconds before walking into the theatre was a bit annoying to me - way to throw a wet blanket on Kate's enjoyment of Kevin's big night! - but I get it, and completely agreed with Toby. We need to see these two truly develop their relationship beyond just losing weight. Let's see them travel together, for example, and just live life day-to-day together. They're not kids - they don't need years to be engaged - but right now, they're practically strangers (well, not literally, but you get my drift).

Agree with everyone that Kevin running to Randall was deeply gratifying on an emotional level but not so much on a practical level. The fallout will be tremendous (what happens to Sloane, the play, Kevin's reputation and career, etc.). But indeed, seeing Kevin cradle a crying Randall packed a wallop that we won't soon forget.

I did wonder who was watching Randall and Beth's daughters...Randall was melting down in his office, Beth was at her mother's side...I guess they must have a sitter or friend/neighbor who can jump in in an emergency. William's not up to the task, of course. Wherever Randall and Beth live, it's pretty darn close to Manhattan, in that Randall was able to leave work, deal with William/hospice nurse, and then get back to his office in what seemed to be a fairly short period of time. And same with Kevin: he was able to get from Randall and Beth's home (he's still staying there, yes?) to Randall's office in the city, and then to Miguel and Rebecca's home and then back into the city to prep for the play, all in what seemed to be a compressed amount of time.

Finally (sorry for the long post), Sophie: only a glimpse of her. He and Sophie have been divorced for 12 years, but he must have been having the recurring Katie Couric dream well before their split, as Sophie was all too familiar with it. It will be interesting to see how the family reacts to their new status. I guess Sophie's now dumped her boyfriend, oh well, sorry dude!

[ShadowFacts]

8 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I remember that line specifically because it stood out to me that Randall thought to say it. Randall says different things sometimes in regards to William dying (Kate and Kevin do too, on a lesser scale and obviously not about William) that makes me think he must be speaking from experience when Jack died. Something might have happened in that month/two months when Rebecca was on tour and maybe the teenage Big Three were too wrapped up in their own high school lives to notice something going on with their dad.

I think the suicide angles (Christmas party guy on balcony, Toby's suicidal ideation) may be red herrings.  The drinking/driving may also be, now that Randall has that line about William not dying while no one's looking.  My mind is now going to something like he does have an accident, and is thought to be all right, but a head injury that's undiagnosed is what takes him.  I don't know how Kate's intense inability to talk about it 20 years later plays in -- she may have guilt about what she thinks is her part in it.  (In my own experience, a friend's father went to bail her brother out of jail and was hit and killed by a train on the way -- something along those lines.)

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I feel like there has to be a better way to insult that dude. Most men would not mind being known as horse dick.

 

I hope we never see the character again, but how about horse douche as a better nickname?

Kevin running to Randall's side just as his career making play was about to start, is the type of smaltzy stuff that usually makes me roll my eyes, but dang if I did not find it touching at this moment.

On a shallow note, the actors that play Kevin and Randall are vary nice looking and have great brotherly chemistry.  I do not mind both of them being on my screen, just for the eye candy, alone.

The teenagers were fantastic.  16 year old Kate is barely even chubby.  I was actually on Toby's side about the long engagement and not rushing into marriage.  If we all guessed the ages of the kids correctly, that means that Jack's death took place twenty years ago.  It is obvious the big three have not processed the grief properly...particularly, if Kate can not even talk about the circumstances of the death with the man she is about to marry.

[Evagirl]

I don't think the part about Kevin leaving just as the show was about to start is realistic at all.  It just didn't make sense to me.  Okay, he felt Randall was having a breakdown - I get that.   The very least Kevin could have done was walk out on stage and say, "I apologize.  I just found out I have an extreme family emergency that cannot wait.  Forgive me."  Leaving Sloane stranded and the audience hanging may make for good TV, but it's lousy realism. 

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think the suicide angles (Christmas party guy on balcony, Toby's suicidal ideation) may be red herrings.  The drinking/driving may also be, now that Randall has that line about William not dying while no one's looking.  My mind is now going to something like he does have an accident, and is thought to be all right, but a head injury that's undiagnosed is what takes him.  I don't know how Kate's intense inability to talk about it 20 years later plays in -- she may have guilt about what she thinks is her part in it.  (In my own experience, a friend's father went to bail her brother out of jail and was hit and killed by a train on the way -- something along those lines.)

Maybe it's everything rolled into one.  He gets in a drunk driving accident, has undiagnosed injury to his brain which causes him to have hallucinations which nobody notices.  Kate comes in, he thinks she's someone else and attacks her. Kevin walks in and does nothing. Once Jack realizes what is going on he kills himself to protect his family, as Kate watches helplessly and Kevin realizes he never helps anybody.  Meanwhile, they keep this all to themselves, so Randall thinks he just killed himself while nobody was watching.

I think I got in all the theories I've seen except Miguel killing him.

[ChromaKelly]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

He's just heavily padded on the torso, not wearing facial prosthetics or anything.  Though I agree about Miguel's makeup.  Yikes.  

Yes, and it makes him look pregnant. eeesh I can't stand it. Is there some kind of shortage of chubby actors?

[bichonblitz]

4 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

I don't think the part about Kevin leaving just as the show was about to start is realistic at all.  It just didn't make sense to me.  Okay, he felt Randall was having a breakdown - I get that.   The very least Kevin could have done was walk out on stage and say, "I apologize.  I just found out I have an extreme family emergency that cannot wait.  Forgive me."  Leaving Sloane stranded and the audience hanging may make for good TV, but it's lousy realism. 

I also do not think that in the state of mind Randall was in, he would have the where with all to call his brother just to tell him he wasn't going to be able to make it to his play.  

[ShadowFacts]

1 minute ago, bichonblitz said:

I also do not think that in the state of mind Randall was in, he would have the where with all to call his brother just to tell him he wasn't going to be able to make it to his play.  

Yes, Randall was practically in a catatonic state, but (since I'm not clear on if we can discuss previews)

Spoiler

he snaps out of it quickly enough to go on a road trip with William soon after. 

[scarynikki12]

I really, really, really hope this isn't the end of Kate's chapter at the camp.  I want her to get a lawyer and sue the hell out of them for the harassment and bullshit expulsion. 

I know Randall loves his job but the last few episodes have shown me that he either needs to put his foot down with his boss regarding all of these last minute changes we've seen, change firms, full on quit, or hire someone to take care of getting the girls to and from school and their activities so that he can take that time to focus on work.  He could also use some therapy to cope with the stress.

I'm sure Kevin shot himself in the foot by bailing on the play but I hope someone noticed him leaving, managed to get him to say why, grabbed the understudy and let the play delay by only a few minutes.  Even if that didn't happen I hope the understudy made it on quickly and the play ends up being successful in spite of him bailing.  It was for a good cause but it did potentially hurt everyone involved.  If the play manages to be successful, maybe Kevin will learn that he has a talent for choosing to invest his money in plays/musicals that end up being hits.  That would keep him free to continue the family stories without having to show him at work very much.

I was totally on Rebecca's side in that fight.  I get that Jack was feeling insecure and jealous but, like she said, they dated for a couple of months when she was 19, which is nothing compared to her actual marriage.  Also, Jack's jealousy clearly prevented him from hearing the part of the conversation where the guy mentioned that Rebecca had told him she didn't even want to be married.  If he had been paying attention he could have responded with "she just hadn't found the right guy" and left it there.  Rebecca mentioned in their fight that, even though them dating for two months was nothing, she didn't want to tell him because she knew he'd get jealous.  I hope this wasn't a throw away line and we get to see the times Jack did express jealousy over nothing.  I'm one who believes that we're getting Saint Jack at the beginning of the series (though I would argue we've seen plenty of flaws already that the show just hasn't drawn our attention to) so that we will forgive and accept Human Jack when those flaws get explored.  I hope the jealousy is one of those things that get explored. 

I do feel for Jack that he was feeling so down that he seemingly started drinking again.  We won't know for sure unless it's shown in flashbacks but, currently, we are led to believe that this is the first time in years that he's had a drink.  Rebecca's concern about it earlier in the season, coupled with a few comments Miguel made in this episode and the way the drink was focused on does tell me that this is going to be a problem.  I don't think he dies on this night, otherwise there would have been some indication that the kids hated Valentine's Day for being the anniversary of his death.  Though, as I type that I realize that I don't remember if they said the date in the modern story or not.  If not, then I guess it's still possible but I have a feeling it isn't.  What I think this first drink signifies is Jack falling off the wagon and not getting back on.  I think that alcohol will play a role in his death.  Maybe a drunk driving death, maybe a bar death, maybe alcohol poisoning, who knows.  And, since alcohol is a depressant, this will not help his current emotional state.  I do think they'll reveal how he died by season's end but continue to explore that day and the ramifications in the additional seasons. 

I'm still not feeling Toby.  Don't get me wrong, he's infinitely better when compared to HorseDick, but that doesn't negate the things that concern me.  I'm convinced that Kate is into him because his tendency for grand gestures reminds her of Jack and that's why she overlooks the little moments of manipulation and disrespect.  To be fair to Toby, I don't think he does any of these things consciously but due to insecurities.  That doesn't make any of it better but it does mean that he needs to work on himself just as much as Kate does.

One thing I noticed about these characters in general but also with regard to this episode is that they all need therapy.  Kevin needs it for his pre-opening night freakouts, Kate needs it to help her achieve her weight loss goals now that the camp is done, Randall needs it to help him deal with the stress in his life, and they all need it in general.  TV doesn't like to show characters having therapists (even though almost everyone I know in real life has one, if only to have an objective listener, and all find it tremendously helpful) but The Big Three need it.  Toby certainly needs it, given how he behaved at group and the camp and his obvious insecurities.  Rebecca needs it for her unexpressed anger at putting her life on hold to take care of Jack and the kids and Jack for sure needed therapy but I don't think he ever got it.

[Valny]

Does anyone remember the Jared Leto conversation with Kate and Toby?

[VioletNevermind]

9 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

This episode had its moments but some stuff didn't really.. sit okay with me.

Miguel will never be a character I like and people can tell me I'm being unsightly mean and hating a character for unfounded reasons-hi, I've been here in these forums having these same type of discussions on different shows, check out my opinions- but something about him isn't sitting right and probably never will. And when he said to Kevin "I get that you don't like me.." but there must be a reason that adult Kevin is not fond of Miguel either. So let's let that resonate. Also where are Miguel's adult children?!?! Why have we never seen them?

You said it so I didn't have to.

[kili]

I think that Rebecca and Jack made a mistake sending Randall to that private school.

While it fed his intellectual needs, it destroyed his emotional needs. Those places can emphasize competitiveness over the wholeness of the person. Randall turned from being a relatively well-rounded (if slightly competitive) 8 year old into a kid having a nervous breakdown because there is one subject in which one other kid in the class is better than him.

I get it. I'm a competitive person who liked to be at the top of the class. But one of the parts of growing up is coming to terms with the fact that one can't be the best at everything. It's okay. It's not settling and it isn't the end of the world. Eventually, you are going to meet somebody who is better at something than you. 

Jack thinks he fixed Randall's freak-out as a teenager, but he just calmed down the symptoms. He did nothing to fix the underlying problem which festered until this breakdown. His fix didn't even last the night. Randall needs to admit that it is okay to ask for help and it is okay if he isn't the besets person in the room in all circumstances. 

Maybe Toby can give Randall his shrink's name. Randall needs a lot of therapy.

That school ate the Pearson family. Everybody sacrificed for that school and it didn't give Randall what he really needed. It re-inforced his need to be perfect (after all, his Dad and Mom were sacrificing for him to go to that school) and nobody can be perfect all the time. 

[Evagirl]

6 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I also do not think that in the state of mind Randall was in, he would have the where with all to call his brother just to tell him he wasn't going to be able to make it to his play.  

Agree 100%.  Not a lot of realism in 'This is Us' these days.

[luna1122]

11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Maybe it's everything rolled into one.  He gets in a drunk driving accident, has undiagnosed injury to his brain which causes him to have hallucinations which nobody notices.  Kate comes in, he thinks she's someone else and attacks her. Kevin walks in and does nothing. Once Jack realizes what is going on he kills himself to protect his family, as Kate watches helplessly and Kevin realizes he never helps anybody.  Meanwhile, they keep this all to themselves, so Randall thinks he just killed himself while nobody was watching.

I think I got in all the theories I've seen except Miguel killing him.

You forgot 9/11!

[Evagirl]

1 minute ago, scarynikki12 said:

I was totally on Rebecca's side in that fight.

I was not.  I think she is selfish.  Those 3 kids are just as much hers as Jack's.  She just listed last week how awesome and supportive Jack has been with her being a lounge lizard singer.  Now she wants to take off for weeks with an ex-boyfriend that Jack knew nothing about.  Jack has bent over backwards to please and appease her.  He has also sacrificed - a lot, especially going crawling to his old man.   What has she done for Jack lately beside a bump and grind when she was 9 months pregnant on his birthday?  She let her mother get away with, "He couldn't even get you pregnant right."  Nope, 'Bec is not my favorite.

[Racj82]

6 hours ago, HeyThere83 said:

Well that's the thing...it was all resolved in one episode back in October. Years of resentment went away after rolling around in the street for a minute. Typically I think that sort of thing takes a while to work through, with back and forth dialogue, and sometimes suffering setbacks.  Kevin had another very quick realization tonight that he is a heroic figure like his father and swung into action. I guess I prefer a little more fill-in-the-blanks in between for these big moments to feel earned.

It wasn't as quick as you are making it out to be either. They had the breakthrough during the fight like I said but it didn't magically heal them. They are just in a better place. A place where Kevin could actually be there for Randall in a way he wasn't before at least. But, they aren't best buds. It's not all under the bridge. I never got that impression anyway. This is also much more than that. We've been watching Kevin evolve all season into a more responsible person. This is a extention of that. Issues aside, they are still brothers.

[Biggie B]

Quote

Not a lot of realism in 'This is Us' these days.

It's a soap opera, so I tend to suspend a lot of disbelief. Yes, there are times on many shows where something is said or done that is so blatantly impossible or wrong that it ruins the moment or episode, but...I feel like I get what I pay for with most shows.

[Cheyanne11]

12 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get the Miguel hate.  I really don't.  He married Rebecca after Jack died.  What's wrong with that.

Not to mention, we have no idea about the time frame.  The way Miguel spoke last night it seems to me he and Rebecca were probably spending lots of time together to grieve for Jack and then eventually turned into something more.   

[ChromaKelly]

I'm with you all who didn't love Kevin running to Randall and leaving Sloane. I mean, it was touching but so unrealistic. I thought he was going to call 911 or Kate or Rebecca to check on him. Great, he was there for Randall but he left Sloane high and dry. 
I was really feeling for Randall though. I can be high strung like that and I've had those types of breakdowns. He's still my favorite character.

I'm a little disappointed that Kate's camp storyline is over just like that. When Horse's Ass (how's that nickname?) started on with his parents owning the camp, I thought for half a second he was going to ask her to please not tell them. Nope, apparently his parents are enablers to their son hitting on paying customers and they kick out said customers for refusing his advances. WTF even is that? I did like Toby better in this episode.

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

You forgot 9/11!

Maybe it's everything rolled into one.  He gets in a drunk driving accident, has undiagnosed injury to his brain which causes him to have hallucinations which nobody notices.  Kate comes in, he thinks she's someone else and attacks her. Kevin walks in and does nothing. Once Jack realizes what is going on he kills himself to protect his family, as Kate watches helplessly and Kevin realizes he never helps anybody.  They run outside and moments later, a plane hits the building, because they happened to be at the Twin Towers at the time. Meanwhile, they keep this all to themselves, so Randall thinks he just killed himself while nobody was watching.

[picklesprite]

I felt really sorry for Kevin. He spent his childhood watching his parents turn away from him in order to help Randall, and tonight, in order to do what his dad would have done, Kevin turned away from himself. Jack would have left the play, too, leaving Kevin there to feel brokenhearted while running to save Randall. When Randall wakes up to what Kevin did for him, he'll surely feel gratitude, yes, but also a guilt that will be hard to shake. I hope the writers can come up with some believable way to keep from destroying Kevin's career and the play.

I hope Randall can find some inner peace, because his demons demand a lot from the people around him, from home to work.

[Katy M]

18 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

She let her mother get away with, "He couldn't even get you pregnant right."  Nope, 'Bec is not my favorite.

I agreed with the rest of your post, but you can't blame Rebecca for what her mother says and does.  She has to pick her battles and Jack wasn't even there to know she said it.  She did end up cutting her parents out a few years later, and that's not an easy thing to do.

[Racj82]

31 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I also do not think that in the state of mind Randall was in, he would have the where with all to call his brother just to tell him he wasn't going to be able to make it to his play.  

It's completely in keeping with his character even in that state. That call was basically him on auto pilot doing another thing he knew needed to be done. He probably doesn't even remember the phone call.

[Wings]

I binge watched this show up until these past 3 episodes.  That may have influenced my take.  I have never been able to warm to Randall. I have not seen anything loveable about him. The rest of the cast is more developed and compelling.   So I find his being so freaked out over his father, who he just met, dying is way too over the top.  I may just have a cold black heart.  

I like Miguel and interested to see how he and Rebecca get together.  

I found it unbelievable that Randall would call Kevin at show time and equally so that Kevin had his phone turned on!  It was curtain time.  But I get that it was a plot device to move the story line in a new direction for both characters.  

Jacks death.  I don't think it will be something they can blame him for like driving drunk.  His family has to feel guilty thus the torture Kate has around it.  Randall telegraphed that with his line  "don't die alone."  So Jack may die of a heart attack and could have been saved had Kate been there.  Does she have a fight with him and storm out of the house when Rebecca was on tour?  Possible.  They left him alone to die somehow. 

I think Toby will loose the fat suit showing he lost weight and that will cause problems in their relationship because Kate still struggles.

Edited February 15, 2017 by wings707

[molshoop]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I have no sympathy for Rebecca and her thing about doing something for herself.  She agreed to have children, she doesn't get to play the "Jack talked me into it," card forever.  It's a good long, 18 year minimum, commitment for any parent.  Nobody gets time off. To most of us time for ourselves means getting our hair done once every few months.   Jack doesn't get to go on a fishing vacation for five weeks to Scotland, to have time for himself.  Oh yes, she'd say this is her career, not a hobby, but I think it's a little bit of both, with probably very little earnings. And again, most parents don't get to choose a "fun," career that takes us out at night, when we could probably make more money doing a day job while the kids are in school.

You said exactly what I was thinking. Why should Jack have to work extra hours to support the family.  And he gave up his dream career.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

I remember that line specifically because it stood out to me that Randall thought to say it. Randall says different things sometimes in regards to William dying (Kate and Kevin do too, on a lesser scale and obviously not about William) that makes me think he must be speaking from experience when Jack died. Something might have happened in that month/two months when Rebecca was on tour and maybe the teenage Big Three were too wrapped up in their own high school lives to notice something going on with their dad.

Thank you for confirming the line. I was thinking the same thing about him dying on Rebecca's tour. And, guilt (though undeserved) might be a reason Kate still can't speak about it - though it's 20 years later (if Jack died when they when they were 16)

34 minutes ago, Valny said:

Does anyone remember the Jared Leto conversation with Kate and Toby?

Made me laugh. I don't have any particular opinion on Leto, but my adult daughter hates him.

12 minutes ago, picklesprite said:

I felt really sorry for Kevin. He spent his childhood watching his parents turn away from him in order to help Randall, and tonight, in order to do what his dad would have done, Kevin turned away from himself.

Wow, I love that insight.

[Biggie B]

WWJD = What would Jack do?

[Katy M]

Jack would have comforted Randall and done the play at the same time because he's a superhero.

[Evagirl]

I guess we have to wait until next week or coming weeks to see what actually happened to take Jack's life.  This is just a guess or the result of of over-active imagination, but here's my spin.  Jack dies while Rebecca's on tour.  Kate overheard probably the most ferocious argument her parents ever had.  Kate has blamed Rebecca all these years for Jack's death and that's why she still resents her mother today.   We'll see what happens.

Just now, Katy M said:

Jack would have comforted Randall and done the play at the same time because he's a superhero.

LOL!