Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, Wynterwolf said:

I did too, and I think this just clarified something on what fell a bit flat in Finn & Rose's part of the story for me:  there was a lot more telling rather than showing, and the telling felt pretty heavy handed.    

 

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

Paige (who picked these names?) was worth ten of her sister.

Rose should be a Resistance recruiter. She lectures.

I feel every one of the characters from TFA needed to learn a lesson in TLJ. For Finn even though he had left the First Order,  he hadn't really joined the Resistance. Everything he had been doing was only about Rey.

Edited December 16, 2017 by VCRTracking

[emjohnson03]

Just got back from seeing it. I think it was worth seeing and I would see again with a Star Wars fan for sure.

The last scene with Luke and Leia was pitch perfect and it was wonderful.

I had a feeling the Kylo and Rey alliance wasn't going to last but dang did I love see those two come together and fight off the red baddies. In what world does Kylo think he can really win ever? I would love to see them work together but alas, not meant to be. (And I have to point out the shirtless scene, maybe to be funny but to also show the audience he's not some wimpy kid? He does come across as young and I like that, and I loved that he didn't wear the mask all movie, good call!)

Rose was sweet and I liked her. I think they added her right.

I had no idea Carrie and Mark were in so much of it and I really enjoyed how much they were apart of the story. I'm going to miss Carrie, ugh!

And oh goodness Poe is one fine warrior. He really does ooze gorgeous every time he was on the screen. Oscar is one slick dude. 

It felt a little long at the end...I didn't feel they needed all those scenes but the Kylo and Luke was worth it. I think that was so well done.

Bring on the next chapter!

[ulkis]

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/269710/star-wars-the-last-jedi-a-spoiler-filled-exploration

I read that review and I don't know if I agree this is a new thing in Star Wars:

All of which brings us to one of the most hotly-debated topics in Star Wars history to date: Rey's family. Is Rey a Skywalker? A Palpatine? A Kenobi? As it turns out, none of the above. Rey is, as she says so herself, "a nobody" - abandoned as a child by frankly horrible parents who dealt in scrap. An anticlimax? Possibly, but it's also a fascinating new development. Unless Rey's parents still have some kind of special lineage that we don't yet know about (which is now looking unlikely), it suggests that Force powers as powerful as Rey's can, potentially, manifest themselves in anybody. The Star Wars saga doesn't have to be about the Skywalker lineage anymore; it can be about ordinary back-water people like us.

We already know other people/beings than Skywalkers can be powerful force users. Luke wasn't even powerful enough to defeat the Emperor. I guess it's different because they weren't the focus, and Rey is?

This isn't really coming from a place of "gee I wish Rey was a Skywalker" because I wasn't particularly keen on it. I just don't feel like this is a new concept in Star Wars, but maybe that's because I've read/watched some ancillary material.

Edited December 16, 2017 by ulkis

[VCRTracking]

Until recently I was very much hoping Rey was a Skywalker but thinking about it the "Skywalker Saga" wouldn't end in episode IX, it would just go on and on, with Rey's children. I now think it's better that it end with Kylo being the last one and his death ending that bloodline. The three trilogies are now about three generations of the family.

[MrsR]

Well I don't think Anakin's story is that he's from humble origins.  Anakin's story is that he was made by The Force.  The Force created him. His talents are such that he will eventually get noticed and/or win his freedom. Which he does.  

 

Who are Obi Wan's parents? Or Qui-gon Jinn's parents. Or Palpatine's?  No body ever said that all the Jedi were from noble backgrounds.

The thing is in Star Wars, the main characters have always been Skywalkers. This has always been the story of the Skywalker family and so it seemed it still might be with Rey in TFA.  The fact that she didn't know who either of her parents  were seemed a call back to Anakin without a father and Luke as an orphan. 

 

So now we have a hero who isn't a Skywalker.  But the villain is.  Anakin was a villain in more movies than he was a hero. 

[Joe]

Rey had the broken pieces of her lightsabre on the Falcon at the end. Hopefully she'll build her own. Maybe a double-bladed or staff style.

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

We already know other people/beings than Skywalkers can be powerful force users. Luke wasn't even powerful enough to defeat the Emperor.

I'd say Luke was powerful enough to defeat The Emperor, he was undefeated against him.  Palpatine had his great plan, that went off without a hitch, everything always went as he foresaw, until that kid from Tatooine joined the Rebellion.  Luke blew up the Death Star causing the Emperor's first big loss, Palpatine didn't see that coming.  In Empire with his hand cut off, facing certain death, and being told Vader was his father, Luke chose to let go and possibly die instead of joining the Dark Side, another massive loss for the Emperor.  In Return, seeing that he was on the path to the Dark Side, Luke turned directions, threw down his lightsaber, and defied the Emperor to his face, by proclaiming "I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."  And his belief in Anakin, led to Anakin killing Palpatine.  Luke was powerful enough to defeat the Emperor, he did it constantly, he just didn't do it physically.  Luke had the power and strength to choose death over joining the Dark Side, twice.

[thuganomics85]

Saw this a few hours ago and still letting it process a bit.  Overall, there were parts that I really loved, but there were also parts that I found kind of boring (it really did feel like the longest Star Wars film) and kind of a mess.  Kind of surprised that critics adore it and have said it is the best since Empire Strikes Back, because I suspect I'll probably end up ranking this 4th behind A New Hope and Force Awakens (which I totally know has become more "cool" to hate, but I will defend it, nostalgia tour and all.)

Again, there was a lot to love though.  It was probably one of the most beautiful films of the franchise and Rian Johnson really brought a different style and feeling to this film compared to the rest.  I also enjoyed how the film will zig when I thought it would zag, and a lot of the major mysterious from Force Awakens ended up going in a completely different direction then predicted.  Definitely felt like Disney was more wiling to take risks this go around (while Force Awakens was more hands on to make sure it rejuvenated the franchise after the prequels), and even when it didn't work, I respected it.

They certainly made up for the lack of Luke this go around and I'm glad for it!  Mark Hamill was amazing in this, and might even be his best work yet.  He really sold Luke's guilt over what happened with Kylo, and then his annoyance and later begrudging respect for Rey.  And then that final act with him and Leia (RIP Carrie Fisher) and basically trolling Kylo, was close to a perfect send-off as one can get, although I have to imagine he will come back in ghost form for the final act.  All in all, great show.

And then there was Daisy Ridley, who I thought pretty much matched him in every way.  I truly think she is going to be a huge star once this is over, because for someone still relatively unknown and inexperienced, she really has a charismatic presence about her, and is riveting whenever she is on screen.  Daisy as Rey is seriously one of the best casting decisions in the entire franchise and every time I see her, I feel like I'm watching a star being born.

Not surprised Finn wasn't out for too long and while I still enjoy how John Boyega makes him the closest to an everyman of the group, I did feel like he kind of took a backseat this go around.  I even thought Poe had more significance this go around.  Still, I enjoyed his interactions with Rose.  Not familiar with Kelly Marie Tran, but I found her charming and I enjoyed their interactions.  But if they do go down a love triangle route, then I'm not sure I'll buy it.  I think Finn clearly has affection for her, but even with them lacking time together, just the brief moments where Finn sees Rey, it seems obvious to me that the dude is just completely head over heels for her. 

Oscar Isaac truly is one of the most charming actors on the planet, even when he is playing a character who can be kind of a dick.  Only time he wasn't was in X-Men: Apocalypse, but that took a shit ton of lame make-up and prosthetics to pull that off.

That said, I'm starting to think that Marvel isn't the only one that has a villain problem here, because I've come to the conclusion that all of the bad guys here are lame.  As much as I love Andy Serkis, Snoke just felt like a discounted Palpatine, that I could never take him seriously, and even found it hilarious that he got taken out like a chump.  At this point, Hux seems to only either sneer (when he's winning) or look like he just smelled a fart (when he's losing), and all I can think is if there is an afterlife in this universe, Grand Moff Tarkin is just shaking his head and saying "Ha!  This little twerp is suppose to be the new me?!"  And then there is Kylo Ren, which.... I get what they are going for her, but he's just so comical now.  I'm glad they have torpedoed any redemption arc at least, but him being the final baddie is just laughable at this point.

But hey, at least they all fared better then Captain Phasma, who once again makes a grand entrance, only to go down like a chump.  Although this time we can actually see her eye, and audiences can be all "Oh, hey, that's Brienne of Tarth!  They're.... kind of wasting her, really."

I didn't think Leia suddenly being powerful enough to float back to safety was that bad, but I did think it could have been shoot better.  Just felt a bit cheesy there.

Benicio Del Toro seem to only be here to be set up for future installments for something.  His character was interesting I guess, but the fanboy in me totally wanted him to play a character whose name will never be spoken, but he will look and clearly be The Collector, so that way Star Wars and Guardians of the Galaxy/Marvel share the same universe!  Yes, I know that was never going to happen, but still..

The porgs really where just there to sell toys, but at least they were smart enough to pair them off with an understandably annoyed Chewbacca, which led to some decent fun moments.

Again, I think I liked it overall, but not as much as I hoped.  I guess the best way to describe it is that I came out of The Force Awakens feeling rejuvenated and feeling like I just saw a franchise I thought I was over suddenly come roaring back to life, while with this one it was more respecting it on a lot of levels, but feeling detached on some levels.  It is totally going to sound like a cliche, but it was like my brain was telling me it was an excellent film, but my heart just couldn't accept it like I do with Empire, New Hope, and Force Awakens. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by thuganomics85

[mxc90]

I left the movie feeling Disney thinks their audience is stupid.

If Yoda can show up in ghost form and use the force to bring down the tree, where was his assistance in the other films? 

Still left without knowing who is Snoke. Such a waste of character and time. They made him to be all powerful but couldn't feel Kylo using the force on the light saber that killed him.

After Chewbacca dropped off Rey, where did he go? He didn't go to the rebels and offer help in the evacuation. Maybe he went to a 24 hour vegan takeout (now that he is disgusted to eat meat) or took the Falcon to get a wash.  Some time later, Rey did call him from for a ride (Chewy = Galaxy's greatest Uber driver). 

So we are told Kylo killed a few Jedi and left Luke's Jedi Academy with a few others, where the others those clowns in red? If not, where are they hiding? Or just an excuse to make more movies?

Did the director/producers feel to not put much money in creating Snoke's set? Just save money and have a red background.

Maybe a second watch would change my mind but these characters (Finn, Rey, Rose) left me with no inspiration/anticipation for the next film.

Finn - last movie he goes AWOL from the First Order and this movie he tries running away from the rebels. Just let him go in peace. I would have gained a little respect for him if he was successful with his kamikaze attempt. 

The luxury planet (forgot its name) scenes were a waste of time. Just a way to educate the audience on animal cruelty and it ruined the flow of the movie. Thanks for the lesson. Plus, they never contacted the real code breaker and got a guy that screwed them. Also, how Finn and Rose were allowed to double park and stroll into the casino was ridiculous. Who was working the front door?

Did Luke finish the 3 lessons he promised Rey for the day? Still don't understand from the first film and this: how Rey can develop her skills without any real knowledge of the force. Forced character and lazy writing. Her character development had a good start but now it is fizzling.

Why is Hux still around? Kylo doesn't sense he despises him? Kylo could have kill him, replaced him, and the other First Order servants would never question his moves.

Kylo -  betrays his uncle, murders his jedi friends, kills his father, kills his so called mentor, and throws violent temper tantrums, but he can't kill his mother, Rey and Hux. This is the right leader for the First Order and they will prosper. 

I would have loved to seen Leia try to contact her son with this "force calling' method. 

Were the First Order ships lacking in power? Why were they so far behind and couldn't catch up to the rebels to wipe them out?

"Rebel scum" was used twice.

A few a of the jokes worked for me: Luke's tickling Rey's hand and the Poe pranking Hux.

Also, no light saber duels in this film or the line: "I got a bad feeling about this".

Sorry for the rambling if you made it this far but this movie irked me.

Edited December 16, 2017 by mxc90

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Hux looking down at the prone Kylo Ben, reaching under his coat for his blaster only to withdraw when Kylo woke up got a good laugh in my screening. He was so damn close to being an unwitting hero to the galaxy by taking that dirt bag out! 

 

Not gonna lie, I was muttering, "Do it, do it, do it, oh PLEASE do it...oh goddammit." 

Well if anyone's going to take Bitch Boy out, it ought to be Rey. Or Chewie. Yeah, let Chewie finish what he started in the last movie...

Edited December 16, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[Browncoat]

7 hours ago, MrsR said:

7 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I don't know who I felt worse for when Chewie was trying to eat his dinner. Him or the porgs who were watching in horror.

I want a porg friend.

I want a porg friend to go with the Ewok I got back in the 80s.  Let the hate begin! 

 

More thoughts -- Mark Hamill looks better now than he ever has, scruffy beard and all.  This was a great movie for eye-candy -- almost as good as the Brendan Frasier Mummy, with all the pretty boys. 

I also forgot to mention how stunning I thought the Red Velvet Cake planet was.  The tracks the speeders made through the cream cheese frosting, sending up clumps of cake were so beautifully done, particularly when seen from above.

I definitely want to see this again.  Probably multiple times. 

[Joe]

mxc90 Finn wasn't just running away. He was taking the tracker gizmo so Rey wouldn't fall into a trap when she returned. It was running away with a reason.

And Snoke's throne room reminded me of something. Inspired by a movie from the 70s or something, though I can't say for sure. That's the vibe I got from it.

[VCRTracking]

This movie also made me like Maz Kanata. Confession: I straight up hated her in The Force Awakens. I hated this orange Yoda wannabe with her sage wisdom and "I've seen many eyes" shit. I love her now as a badass starring in her own separate action movie who still (apparantly) gets some!

[mxc90]

2 hours ago, Joe said:

mxc90 Finn wasn't just running away. He was taking the tracker gizmo so Rey wouldn't fall into a trap when she returned. It was running away with a reason.

And Snoke's throne room reminded me of something. Inspired by a movie from the 70s or something, though I can't say for sure. That's the vibe I got from it.

Now I need to go back and see it again. I believe Finn's tracking idea about the First Order tracking the rebels through hyperspace came after Rose tased him then they talked to Poe about finding the code breaker. When Poe asked them how they met, they didn't tell the truth of Finn going to the escape pod with his bags packed.

Snoke's throne room was probably a torture chamber or used as an after hours night club reserved for top tier First Order members who didn't mess up their duties.  

Edited December 16, 2017 by mxc90

[Wynterwolf]

2 hours ago, Joe said:

mxc90 Finn wasn't just running away. He was taking the tracker gizmo so Rey wouldn't fall into a trap when she returned. It was running away with a reason.

 

2 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

Now I need to go back and see it again. I believe Finn's tracking idea about the First Order tracking the rebels through hyperspace came after Rose tased him then they talked to Poe about finding the code breaker. When Poe asked them how they met, they didn't tell the truth of Finn going to the escape pod with his bags packed.

mxc90, the tracker Joe mentions is the one that Leia and Rey each had so that Rey would be able to find her way back to the Rebels after going to see Luke.  Finn ended up with that  (it was basically a two way beacon), and when he was getting on the escape pod, he was doing it to take that beacon away from the Rebels, because Finn thought they were all going to die and he didn't want Rey to get caught in that.  That's when Rose stopped him by tasing him.  And then he decided to go after the tracker that the First Order ship had instead.  

[mxc90]

3 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

 

mxc90, the tracker Joe mentions is the one that Leia and Rey each had so that Rey would be able to find her way back to the Rebels after going to see Luke.  Finn ended up with that  (it was basically a two way beacon), and when he was getting on the escape pod, he was doing it to take that beacon away from the Rebels, because Finn thought they were all going to die and he didn't want Rey to get caught in that.  That's when Rose stopped him by tasing him.  And then he decided to go after the tracker that the First Order ship had instead.  

I see.  Thank you to you both.

[MrsR]

2 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

because Finn thought they were all going to die and he didn't want Rey to get caught in that

. Which means he was willing to do anything to save a loved one.

A lesson Rose tried to teach him later in the film when she kept him from saving the Resistance.   A totally unnecessary lesson. Her character is so annoying.

[Wynterwolf]

4 minutes ago, MrsR said:

A lesson Rose tried to teach him later in the film when she kept him from saving the Resistance.   A totally unnecessary lesson. Her character is so annoying.

Rose didn't know that's what he was doing, she thought he was just running away.  And I'm certain Rey wouldn't have thanked him for it, if he'd have succeeded.  When he was headed to the escape pod, he was trying to save someone he loved, but also without understanding anything about Rey or having any sense of the larger picture, which given his upbringing, is not surprising (It pretty closely echoed Han's arc in ANH).  Canto Bight gave him a sense of the larger picture, but then I think he went too far into his Stormtrooper training where everyone is expendable.  Rose brought him back from that.  But it was definitely the clumsiest part of the storytelling.    

[VCRTracking]

42 minutes ago, MrsR said:

. Which means he was willing to do anything to save a loved one.

A lesson Rose tried to teach him later in the film when she kept him from saving the Resistance.   A totally unnecessary lesson. Her character is so annoying.

He wasn't risking his own life by running away.

[Shanna Marie]

My read on the revelation (or not) about Rey's parentage is that Rian Johnson left a lot of wiggle room. It really seemed like the previous movie was setting something up, given how strong both Snoke and Kylo Ren's reactions were to the word that "a girl" had the droid they were looking for, and even more so when they found that she had power. It was like they were worried that someone they hoped or thought was out of the picture had popped up -- like maybe they had something to do with her being dumped on Jakku and hoped that she'd be out of the way and irrelevant there. That, plus the fact that Rey had visions of the torching of the Jedi Academy made it seem like she might have been one of the very young students (either too young to remember or had her memory altered) and possibly either Ben's sister or cousin, someone he couldn't bring himself to kill at the time, so he compromised and hid her. But now the "nobody" possibility has been raised, and I suspect that was the way Johnson was leaning, especially with the stableboy, that he wants to show that a "nobody" can make a big difference. However, he's not completing the trilogy, so he had to leave room for the next writer. The way Kylo Ren phrased it, he was saying more what she feared, not outright telling something he really knew, so it could go either way, with the nobody or with her being significant, and you could find the evidence in these first two films to back it up, either way.

[Wynterwolf]

3 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

so it could go either way, with the nobody or with her being significant, and you could find the evidence in these first two films to back it up, either way.

Yeah, basically that.  And honestly, I'm good with that.  It leaves a lot of possibilities for the story telling in the third movie, and I've always felt a bigger connection to the world of Star Wars that I have to any specific character or bloodline.  In fact, my favorite character in the greater Star Wars universe (canon & non canon) is Talon Karrde.  

[lion10]

So my opinion could very well change about this movie, but I didn't like it, but it was extremely interesting in the choices the director made. And if you really liked The Force Awakens and it was your entry into Star Wars, I don't know if you'd like this movie. It has a very different tone from The Force Awakens and while TFA played more like a traditional Star Wars movie with only one main plot line to follow, The Last Jedi has three: Rey and Luke on Ahch-To, Poe's conflict with Holdo (which was also pointless as she could've just been upfront with the crew and had better morale and teamwork), and Rose and Finn trying to find a hacker that can disable the First Order's tracker.

Rose and Finn's plot line could've been completely removed from the movie and I don't think the main plot would've changed. The FO still ends up chasing the very remnants of the Resistance to Crait and Finn and Rose don't impact that chain of events in any way. I'm disappointed with how Finn's character was handled because it seemed like the writers leaned on making him a comedic character and paired him with Rose and yet made Rose the more competent of the two.  It feels like Finn was basically made the "funny black sidekick" even more so than TFA.  Kelly Marie Tran did a great job with Rose, no question, but I wonder why more time wasn't spent developing Finn.

Kylo killing Snoke was the first thing that made me genuinely interested in where the movie was going and I liked that if a redemption is coming for Kylo, it was held off until Episode 9.  Kylo was the most interesting character in the movie, because how long had he been planning to kill Snoke? Was it when Snoke electrocuted him or had he been planning earlier. In a way, Kylo's an angry young man, sick of the current system that the galaxy runs on and wants to burn everything old away to create a new system, which is very interesting and echoes a lot of the young people in America that find themselves on the right and left of the political divide. However, it's still unclear why Kylo turned to the dark side and I wish we had gotten more background on Snoke before he was killed because he's very old so where did he come from?

The show of the Resistance cruiser bisecting Snoke's ship was fucking gorgeous and the complete silence of the moment and the black and white coloring made it more so.

[calliope1975]

I'm curious if the futures that Rey and Kylo Ben saw of each other were actually real visions or what they wanted the future to be. Rey sees KB turning to the light and redeeming himself, which clearly didn't happen. KB sees Rey's parents as nobodies. But maybe that's what he wanted to see so he could mold her into his Dark Side Sidekick. Maybe he's wrong about that. 

I'm still okay with Rey being no one special with that making her special. Or that The Force can be strong in anyone. Kind of like, when Buffy activated all the slayers. While I hated what came after, I liked that there are a bunch of peeps across the galaxy who can tap into this special ability that we can eventually learn about beyond this one family that's been fucking up the universe for 40 years. (I love you Skywalkers!)

[Wynterwolf]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

I'm curious if the futures that Rey and Kylo Ben saw of each other were actually real visions or what they wanted the future to be. Rey sees KB turning to the light and redeeming himself, which clearly didn't happen. KB sees Rey's parents as nobodies. But maybe that's what he wanted to see so he could mold her into his Dark Side Sidekick. Maybe he's wrong about that. 

Definitely could be.  Or maybe she saw him destroying Snoke and without context, misinterpreted that... and when he believed she joined him, he saw her fighting with him and misinterpreted that.  And I kept getting the feeling that 'The Force' was deliberately messing with people... made me wonder if it was Yoda that was putting ideas in people's heads.  

[MrsR]

Snoke was controlling their connection. Maybe he put the ideas in their heads. Gave them visions he knew they wanted to see. Kylo sees that Rey's a nobody who can't surpass his Force connection and Rey sees a possibility that turns out not to be true. 

[Wynterwolf]

2 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Snoke was controlling their connection.

Did that come from the dialog?  I've only seen it once so far.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Wynterwolf

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Did that come from the dialog?  I've only seen it once so far.

He fostered the connection, beyond that there was no answer one way or the other.

At one point I thought they were going to switch sides. Have Kylo turn light and Rey fall to the dark size. In that case both visions would be right. Rey's vision that she could redeem Kylo and Kylo's vision that Rey turned to "his" size.

[MrsR]

Snoke gloats that he was the one who connected them.

 

Snoke was such a douche. He torments his followers.  Palpatine was sooo smooth. 

[Wynterwolf]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

He fostered the connection, beyond that there was no answer one way or the other.

 

1 minute ago, MrsR said:

Snoke gloats that he was the one who connected them.

Definitely missed that... will have to look out for that when I see it again.  Thanks!

[scarynikki12]

3 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Snoke gloats that he was the one who connected them.

And that was what turned Kylo against him.  The quick cut to him after Snoke's revelation, and Driver taking full advantage of the two seconds he had to show Kylo reassessing what he knows and deciding his next moves, was a great small moment of that sequence. 

Another thing this movie did that I really liked was that is let The Certain Point of View get played out.  We all know that Lucas came up with that to explain the contradiction of Obi Wan telling Luke that Vader murdered Anakin with regard to "I am your father", and we're all willing to accept it because the Empire reveal was SO DAMN GOOD but it's still nice to actually see it in motion.  The moment in the hut between Luke and Ben was a perfect demonstration.  Luke's POV is that he was trying to be proactive and stop the next Darth Vader.  Kylo's is that his own uncle tried to kill him for no reason.  Luke says that Ben was too far gone by that point and, if anything, his hesitation in the moment only made things worse.  Kylo didn't go into any more detail but would probably say that he only turned to the Dark Side after Luke tried to kill him, as he missed the hesitation due to waking up and seeing a lightsaber right above him.  We'll never know what the truth of that moment, or which POV was closer to it (Luke's I'm sure), and that's fine because that wasn't the point of that flashback. 

As far as little touches, the gold dice was a good one.  I honestly never noticed them before but that's the kind of detail that Luke would have picked up on during his time in the Falcon, immediately placed in the back of his mind since it had nothing to do with his actual experiences, and then zeroed in on when he returned to the cockpit.  And, for people who never noticed it like me, it still works because the dice are that seemingly innocuous object that suddenly takes on great importance when a loved on passes.  We don't have to remember them to get what they represent.

[MisterGlass]

The force has always been strong with certain people, regardless of family.  It manifested in obscure ways, like superior piloting ability because they could sense what might come next.  During the days of the Republic force sensitive kids were identified and sent to the Jedi academy for training so that they could learn how to use the power within them.  The reason that the focus of the past movies was on the Skywalkers is that the other Jedi were exterminated.  Luke was the first person to be trained as a Jedi in 20 years.  It's not that there weren't other force sensitive people, like Leia, or like Chirrut.  There were no masters prepared to teach them.

Now that Rey has acknowledged being from unknown parents, I'd like them to stick with it.  If they ping pong back to her being from a known bloodline, it undercuts the through line.  In The Force Awakens it felt like they were leading somewhere.  She was 'waiting for someone,' she had a Rebel pilot doll, she was dressed like Leia.  As of now, that wasn't foreshadowing, or it was a misdirection, or they changed course.  So much of this movie feels like a course change.  Okay.  But if they are going to do a trilogy, there should be some building across it and some continuity between films.  There should be continuity and through line in a single movie.  Otherwise it is not a narrative.  It's a bunch of short stories in the same movie.  That may lead great scenes, but not great movies.

10 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Plus, they never contacted the real code breaker and got a guy that screwed them.

Honestly I think they did find the real code breaker.  I feel like there is some tie in comic they are going to release to explain how this guy lost his red flower brooch and everything else while gambling, and happened to end up in the same prison as Finn and Rose.  He had a huge cache of coded chips for the purpose of sneaking around, and it seems unlikely that there would be two such people around the same spot.  I think it's like that moment when Threepio mentioned he had a red arm to promote a tie in comic.

Edited December 16, 2017 by MisterGlass
Addition.

[ulkis]

Luke should have consoled himself by telling himself that if he had killed Ben, then Leia probably would have embraced the dark side, heh.

[Robert Lynch]

Man, Carrie Fisher...I just get teary when she is on screen. It's like what if moments, but the damage was done. Such a shame to die at age 60. That reunion between Mark Hamill and Carrie was so poignant. The look Carrie gives to him gets me every time. Too bad she will be CGI in the coming trilogy. This is probably the last time we see Carrie as Leia. 

[anna0852]

I'm so torn about what they should do with Leia in the next movie. I don't want her to die. Han and Luke are already gone. To lose her as well just seems to take all the glimmer and shine from these movies. But at the same time I just don't know how I could handle seeing her in CGI, knowing that Carrie is gone. The one thing I don't want them to do is recast. It would be one thing to recast roll one movie in, when they were just building the universe and long before it became such a cultural Touchstone. But to recast her on the final movie would be unthinkable.

[johntfs]

13 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I just don't know how I could handle seeing her in CGI, knowing that Carrie is gone.

They've already committed that they're not doing her in CGI and I doubt they'll recast the role.  I suppose they could bring in Maz Kanata or Force Ghost Luke, but I hope they don't do that either.  My own personal choice would be to bring in Hera Syndulla from Star Wars: Rebels.  And if they could somehow bring in Grand Admiral Thrawn on the side of the Resistance that would be awesome beyond words.  Well, Billy Dee Williams is still alive, maybe Lando could make a return.

[Silver Raven]

Dammit, Luke annoyed the hell out of me for most of this movie.  He was such a whiny bitch.  But he did redeem himself at the end.  But the fact that his beard was different was a silly giveaway that he wasn't really there. I guess we're going to get GhostLuke in Episode IX.

Is there something about being born into poverty that makes people the stronger with The Force?  (And speaking of which, what ever happened to midichlorians?) Anakin, Luke, Rey, all of them poor orphans (did we ever find out who Anakin's father was?)  I still think that Ben and Rey are twins, that explains their connection, not really Snoke somehow making a match with them.

The crystal foxes were cute, but I'd hate to have one as pet, they'd make too much noise running around. :)

I'm surprised a droid was so useless when it came to sussing out an exit from the cave.  And who builds a gigantic cave shelter without more than one entrance?

They filmed this all around the world, didn't they?

[SimoneS]

Okay, I am back. I missed the first 20 minutes thanks to horrible traffic. I did love what I saw. Bitter older Luke was the highlight of the episode for me. It was too bad that they killed him off or he could have led the rebellion in Leia's stead the next film. At first I thought that his appearance to Leia was a projection, but then dismissed that thought because everyone saw him. The whole theatre cheered when they realized that Luke had tricked Kylo (never Ben to me). I was glad to see R2-D2. I hope that he appears in the next film. 

I can't believe that this is the last we will ever see of Leia from now on. It is so unfair. She is finally leading the Resistance and has found her strength in the Force and we have lost the character and the wonderfully talented Carrie Fisher.

While I was disappointed that Rey wasn't Luke's daughter, I liked her strength and determination to save Kylo and then going to the rescue of the Resistance. I thought John Boyega's performance as Finn was also a strength. I loved that both Rey and Finn were always thinking about each other and the reunion hug was sweet, but too brief.

I don't know who annoyed me more Kylo or Snoke. I did cheer when Kylo killed him just because it shut him up. Kylo is just wretched. He killed his father and was going to kill his mother. They better not try to turn him back into a good guy.

Two things I didn't like:

1. Rose kissing Finn and him putting the blanket over her. I like her, but my Finn/Rey shipping heart won't have that for one minute. She needs to keep her lips off Rey's man

2. I was not happy about Poe's obnoxiousness or his attempted mutiny. I was glad that C-3P0 wanted nothing to do with it.

3. Too many new aliens.

 

3 hours ago, johntfs said:

 Well, Billy Dee Williams is still alive, maybe Lando could make a return.

Unfortunately, recent reports were that Billy Dee is not in good health.

Edited December 17, 2017 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

Honestly I think they did find the real code breaker.  I feel like there is some tie in comic they are going to release to explain how this guy lost his red flower brooch and everything else while gambling, and happened to end up in the same prison as Finn and Rose.  He had a huge cache of coded chips for the purpose of sneaking around, and it seems unlikely that there would be two such people around the same spot.  I think it's like that moment when Threepio mentioned he had a red arm to promote a tie in comic.

I think the same. He was the real code breaker and we likely will see him again in the next movie.

[Spartan Girl]

Another good scene was when Luke was watching Rey swing the lightsaber and a tear falls down that grizzled cheek. We can all tell he was thinking: that Rey was just like him 40 years ago, back when he was young, full of hope, at the peak of his powers. Such a powerful moment.

[jcin617]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:11 PM, Browncoat said:

They encountered the children, one of whom picked up a broom using the Force. 

Were those the Jedi books on the Falcon?

I thought that's what I saw (the kid force-pulling the broom) - glad I wasn't hallucinating.

Yes, those were the books.  I'm assuming Rey stole them?   Because Luke thought he was going to burn them.    And sort of explains why Yoda was like "no biggie" burning the tree.

Edited December 17, 2017 by jcin617

[Wynterwolf]

3 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

I thought that's what I saw (the kid force-pulling the broom) - glad I wasn't hallucinating.

Another thing I totally missed and will have to look for on second viewing... 

[The Kings Foot]

22 hours ago, MrsR said:

The? 

 Rose was a bit too Disney theme park happy. And I would have traded Finn's almost sacrifice for Luke surviving. Damn, you Rose, you almost got the last of the Resistance killed because of a crush. She was very millennial SJW-ish.

 

Regarding Rose. She is not a SJW. (hate that term) she is what is known as a "true believer". What's the first thing we learn about her? That's she stunned three would be deserters. And then she has no issue stunning Finn even though she is a bit star struck. She gives up her necklace for the cause without sentiment without a second thought  because its needed to fulfill their mission. That girl is the  dammed backbone of the Resistance. 

Edited December 17, 2017 by The Kings Foot

[tinaw]

6 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm curious if the futures that Rey and Kylo Ben saw of each other were actually real visions or what they wanted the future to be. Rey sees KB turning to the light and redeeming himself, which clearly didn't happen. KB sees Rey's parents as nobodies. But maybe that's what he wanted to see so he could mold her into his Dark Side Sidekick. Maybe he's wrong about that. 

 

Snoke said before kylo ren killed him that he engineered the mind tricks. I'm guessing this would include the visions. I could be wrong

[mxc90]

4 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

Honestly I think they did find the real code breaker.  I feel like there is some tie in comic they are going to release to explain how this guy lost his red flower brooch and everything else while gambling, and happened to end up in the same prison as Finn and Rose.  He had a huge cache of coded chips for the purpose of sneaking around, and it seems unlikely that there would be two such people around the same spot.  I think it's like that moment when Threepio mentioned he had a red arm to promote a tie in comic.

I am not saying you are wrong with this but that would be bad storytelling from Rian Johnson if I have to read a future comic to understand a scene in his movie. He could have added a line or two to let the audience know the identity or have Maz produce a name or picture of the person they were looking for.  This was just another added element (for another movie) that made this useless plot drag on.

[ulkis]

2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I'm so torn about what they should do with Leia in the next movie.e r I don't want her to die. Han and Luke are already gone. To lose her as well just seems to take all the glimmer and shine from these movies. But at the same time I just don't know how I could handle seeing her in CGI, knowing that Carrie is gone. The one thing I don't want them to do is recast. It would be one thing to recast roll one movie in, when they were just building the universe and long before it became such a cultural Touchstone. But to recast her on the final movie would be unthinkable.

Maybe she can be off screen leading another part of the resistance. Although to be honest I think Leia without Han, Luke, and her son is pretty sad too, so I wasn't dreading it as much as I was before tbis movie.

[MrsR]

1 hour ago, The Kings Foot said:

That girl is the  dammed backbone of the Resistance. 

And yet she was willing to let all the remaining members of The Resistance die because of a crush. She had no idea that Luke would show up. That the fox would show them the exit or that Rey and Chewie would make it back to evacuate everyone.

Yeah she is a SJW. She's brimming with concern for social issues.

Her plot went absolutely no where. 

[raven]

7 hours ago, lion10 said:

I'm disappointed with how Finn's character was handled because it seemed like the writers leaned on making him a comedic character and paired him with Rose and yet made Rose the more competent of the two.  I

I agree with this.  I know Finn grew into being a full fledged rebellion member but it seemed he was usually the one getting zapped, knocked around, whatever.  I remember thinking are they just going along with the general Stormtroopers-are-incompetent theme??  Even taking out Phasma was kind of accidental.  I really like JB in this and I like that Finn is brave and a true friend and I suppose good with weaponry at least.   I liked Rose a lot but the kiss at the end seemed off. 

The Casino caper gave us a somewhat interesting new character and the set up for the end with the boy and the force-broom but it went on way too long for me and was too slapstick/goofy.  That had the Disney stamp all over it, as did the cutesy caretakers of the Jedi temple, which felt like overkill since there were the porgs too.  When Rey accidentally smashes the cart all I could think was damn, she nearly killed them.  I suppose I am getting old.

Though I like seeing Leia use Force powers, the CGI just didn't look good.  That was my gripe there. 

On to the good stuff:

Everything with Rey and Kylo.  I thought both Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver did really good work and I could not decide if/who was going to switch sides.  I LOVED that Kylo killed Snoke because he wanted to be Supreme Commander.  I don't care about Snoke (more CGI, sorry Andy Serkis, should have just used your own face/body) who he was, where he got his powers. He didn't interest me in TFA and didn't interest me here.  I completely understand that Kylo would kill him when he had the chance - at that moment, Snoke is saying "my apprentice will take up the weapon to kill his greatest enemy" - paraphrase - and Kylo realizes "hey dude, it's you, who's been insulting and using me.  F you, I want to be in charge now and maybe bring Rey with me. "  Kylo is taking the opposite tack that a young Luke Skywalker did - Luke wanted to know all about his father and be like him; Kylo is rejecting what he knows, kills his father then his mentor and wants to forge on without the past, committing to the dark side.   Plus the Rey/Kylo fight with the red guards was really well done and exciting.

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Bitter older Luke was the highlight of the episode for me

I floved bitter older Luke.   I may be fangirling but I can't criticize anything about his scenes, alone, with Rey or with Yoda (OK, milking that creature and drinking the milk was pretty gross).

I thought Mark Hamill was a stand out, selling crustiness, fear, sadness.   His total weariness with Yoda made me sad for Luke, the idealistic farm boy who had stars in his eyes and thought there would be a happy ending.   I knew something was up with the light saber fight with Kylo because his hair was shorter (I'm thinking did Luke stop at the barber before the fight??) so I wondered if it were a projection yet hoping it wasn't, because Luke physically stopping all the blasts to kill him would have been awesome.  Still the astral projection was pretty awesome by itself.   The scene with Leia was pitch perfect. 

I also like Poe's arc in this, though, like Finn, it would have been nice for him to get a bit of success somewhere.  Failure is part of learning and I'm sure he will be smarter in the next one.  And yes, Oscar Isaacs had chemistry with everyone, including BB-8 (who actually got the "I've got a bad feeling about this" line).  Damn, he is a good looking man!

I don't know how Rey got back on the Falcon with Chewie but I lol'd at Finn's "they all hate that ship" because yeah, the bad guys do.  I think there's a missing scene somewhere there.  It was nice to see Chewie show off some mad piloting skills.

I think Snoke provided the key to the theme of the last movie - you have to have darkness and light.   Rey will learn this but Kylo won't.  Rey is not afraid to tap into her dark side like Kylo is to tap into his light.  When Rey shuts the Falcon's door in his face, that is everything - she is strong in who she is, she doesn't need to forget her past and re-make herself as he wants to do.   Confront her with the worst you can - your parents were awful, they sold you for scrap - and she comes out stronger and more determined in her path. 

There will always be good/bad; the balance is what is important.  That's why the Empire fell but eventually the First Order rose; Emperor to Snoke.  The Jedi were needed in the past but became too powerful.   It's not your bloodline that make you special (I hope they stick with that) it's what you do with what you know.  We are all good and bad to varying degrees.  Leia says no one truly goes away and she's talking about Ben Solo.   Ben Solo is part of Kylo Ren, a miniscule part but there.   Luke gave in to a moment's fear and caused Ben to lose faith in him.  Ben becoming Kylo is on Ben after that though.

We see some of this theme in TFA - Han and Leia are both good people but couldn't keep their relationship together.  They still love each other but let what happened to their son break them apart when they were probably stronger together.

[Joe]

Another thought. I don't believe Phasma is dead. She'll show up in the next movie. Everyone will get worked up about her having a big moment. She'll get taken out underwhelmingly again. Make it a running joke.

Also, Rey and Ren saw each other in the Force after snoke died. He's searching the base, she's closing the Falcon's door.

[starri]

On 12/15/2017 at 8:52 PM, Wynterwolf said:

By the end, he was fighting for the Resistance, and almost willing to sacrifice himself for that cause (until Rose stopped him).  But it was thinly done. 

"You were always scum."

"Rebel scum."

That line got applause in my theater.

I have no idea how they managed to keep a lid on Yoda, but I'm so glad they did.  My jaw hit the floor with that, and with Admiral Holdo's suicide run.

It's probably just knowing that Carrie is gone, but I flat out ugly-cried in the scene where Luke and Leia said their goodbyes.

[pivot]

I loved every single minute of this movie. Just so much fun. I think they did a good job keeping with the spirit of the other movies. And I love that so many women and so many minorities played big parts in the movie.  Peter Jackson and the folks at Marvel need to take a hard look at this movie and realize you can tell a story with minorities  and women as heroes.