S07.E16: Homecoming

[Ljohnson1987]

Kail: How dare you not take your sons to see their father? I know that Javi isn't Isaac's biological father, but he has played a big role in his life.   Also, what does Kail need a break from with all of these trips? Does MTV pay for them? Kail is a bitch.  I'm glad she and Javi divorced. He deserves better. They should've never married to begin with.

 

Leah:  How are you making communication with Jeremy any better, by refusing to talk to him?  Also, Addie is his child too. I'd feel safer with her in Ohio with him, than with you. You're too high to realize anything.  Also, is Leah's cousin her only friend? Sure seems like it.

 

Chelsea: You're more anxious about this pregnancy, because you're not 16, and know more.  

 

Jenelle: How dare you manipulate Jace? He wants to be with the only stable figure in his life. That's Babs.  Kai's eyes light up when he's with Nathan. That's certainly something you never see when he's with Jenelle. Also, Kai is going to look back on the Disney trip, and wonder why he wasn't there.  Jenelle and Dave need to stop focusing on each other's kids, and focus on the kids that they don't have custody of. Also, it's funny that Jenelle was bitching at Babs about daycare, because Kai is there 24/7, and she doesn't bitch about paying for it. Probably because she doesn't. It's obvious that Jenelle will never be able to handle three kids 24/7, because she can barely handle two, on the rare occasions she has both boys. 

It's obvious that Jace is very attached to Babs, because he calls her Mom. Jenelle has never been a Mom to him, so why does she deserve the honor of being called it? Jenelle is nothing more than her kids' big sister/ babysitter when it suits her. 

[GrayMatter]

Chelsea and Cole are very sweet, but I can't help but feel like they'd rather get on with their lives w/o Mtv documenting it all. Many people complain that they are boring (a rehash of already announced events); perhaps this is by design?

Check out Leah's pupils. It doesn't take Dr. Drew to see what's going on here. My guess is that she is abusing her own scripts (thus, she probably does not consider this drug abuse).

I feel for Kail, because she consistently seems to be dealing with childhood trauma throughout the course of this series. This does not excuse, however, the horrible burden she has now placed on Isaac. How have you discussed the finality of divorce, but not even touched how you and your pending ex will manage his relationship with a little boy who calls him dad (which is also problematic)?

Oh Jenelle. Someone in a previous forum commented that she is one of those people that has kids as a souvenir from every relationship. Much like souvenirs themselves, each child is also sort of discarded or left alone in a dark room. You can see how much joy the Roll gets around Nathan. Does anyone know his current legal status? Is he in jail or what? Also, has Jenelle ever interacted with Marissa at all since the start of she and UBTs terrible union?

[ghoulina]

29 minutes ago, Miss Chevious said:

Jenelle- I had to laugh at that grammar "something dramatically happens".

After Nathan's "dramastically", that was kind of a let down. 

[imjagain]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

Whoa, I missed that....when did he say that? What were they talking about? 

It was right at the beginning, they were in the truck.  Jace burped a few times.  Then that idiot David said,  something like,  "excuse you,  Mr fancy Mr fancy pants figure  skater" 

I actually said wtf? 

Edited January 17, 2017 by imjagain

[CofCinci]

1 hour ago, Brooklynista said:

Because the MTV camera was on in the truck and he couldn't call Jace an asshole.

I don't think he wanted to call Jace an asshole.  Mr. Fancy Pants Figure Skater is David's television-appropriate version of f@ggot.  This poor kid. 

[ReadMeLattice]

I agreed with Leah that Jeremy was wrong-- the Ohio thing was fucked up IMO, and deliberate-- until she refused to speak to him. Even when homegirl is right, she sabotages herself. She can't be emotionally mature for a second. 

Jace with his singing is breaking my heart. Jenelle and Barb need to learn major impulse control and David needs to stay the hell out, he's not part of this situation. And his homophobic comment made me want to punch his Frankenstein face. And Jenelle: he is not your son because of YOU. You.

And Nathan clearly has a good relationship with Kaiser. What a piece of trash for screwing it all up and throwing away the one chance for him to be a decent man in some way in order to choke an ex twice and drink and drive. He brought it on himself and now it's only Kai that will suffer because of his two selfish "parents."

Why couldn't Kail and Javi have said he would share a room with Lincoln, like someone said above? Javi *does* have responsibility for Isaac because both he and Kail made it a huge deal that he become his parent. He was told to call him dad and Javi regularly called him "my son." Poor Isaac shouldn't suffer now because of those two douchebags and their inability to stop tweeting angrily about each other. 

Honestly, this show just makes me sad now. This is child abuse. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Lm2162

[ReadMeLattice]

The only thing I saw no problem with was the vibrator, lol-- it's not like you'll be with kids 100% of the time. I'm sure guys on a vacation pleasure themselves in the bathroom or in a private moment in the bedroom, not sure why it's different for a girl. I did think it was trashy and creepy to talk about it on TV, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't be on TV, or at least not this show, at all, though. 

Just do it and don't tell anybody like a normal freaking human! 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Lm2162

[CofCinci]

2 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Why couldn't Kail and Javi have said he would share a room with Lincoln, like someone said above? Javi *does* have responsibility for Isaac because both he and Kail made it a huge deal that he become his parent. He was told to call him dad and Javi regularly called him "my son." Poor Isaac shouldn't suffer now because of those two douchebags and their inability to stop tweeting angrily about each other. 

Truth.  Javi should have added that both boys would share a room and Isaac would avoid 3 years of therapy  

Da real MVP award goes to: Jo Rivera.  He could be very petty and hurtful to Kail/Javi but he isn't because he is a father.  He has matured a lot in the last few years. It's clear how much he loves his son and tries to make decisions in his kid's best interest. 

[GreatKazu]

4 hours ago, Mkay said:

Tonight's episode date July 21st-Aug 1st when Javi got home.  This picture is from the vibrator dinner scene.  ?

Anyone who is/was a listener to Howard Stern, let me introduce to you NICOLE BASS. Google her image and you will see.

[CaughtOnTape]

I know it's a lot to ask, but I think it would go a long way if Jenelle would simply say to Barb, "Thank you for taking care of him when I couldn't.  Thank you for the money you spent and the time you spent, these are things I can never repay you.  But I would like to be his mother now."

She acts so entitled and I think that's what sets Barb off.  Jenelle makes it seem like she's entitled to be his mother just because she's ready now and I'm sure Barb is just like "Well, what about everything I did?"

It's truly sad to watch the two of them ask Jace questions and then when they don't get the expected answer, turn and try to convince him the answer was wrong.  Like Jenelle turning around "Well you know I'll take you wherever you wanna go, you just have to ask." was a not-so-subtle way of telling him his answer about daycare was wrong and also putting the responsibility on him for not asking.  It's things like that that turn kids like Jace into nervous adults who can't say boo to anyone for fear it's the wrong answer.

I don't even know what to say about Leah.  Yes, she deserved to know where her kid was but then she started making all of these ridiculous parallels about it "What happens if we flood again?"  Well, if you flood again, Addy was with her father IN ANOTHER STATE so she's fine.  Like she just exacerbated the situation rather than taking it for what it was and acting like a mature adult about it.

Kail hasn't let go of her anger towards Javi for how he treated her after the miscarriage and in the end, that's what ended their marriage.  She doesn't think he's sorry even though he's apologized and to be honest, either do I.  A line was crossed for both of them and now neither can let it go and I get it.  It's sad but....everyone has a line I guess.

[heatherchandler]

49 minutes ago, GrayMatter said:

Check out Leah's pupils. It doesn't take Dr. Drew to see what's going on here. My guess is that she is abusing her own scripts (thus, she probably does not consider this drug abuse).

 

Her pupils said it all.  Does she know that we can SEE her?  She is high as a kite.

 

3 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Truth.  Javi should have added that both boys would share a room and Isaac would avoid 3 years of therapy  

Da real MVP award goes to: Jo Rivera.  He could be very petty and hurtful to Kail/Javi but he isn't because he is a father.  He has matured a lot in the last few years. It's clear how much he loves his son and tries to make decisions in his kid's best interest. 

That was all he had to say.  I figured he didn't want to say ANYTHING for fear of Kail yelling at him that he said something wrong.  

Go Jo!

[FlowerofCarnage]

I feel like no one has sat down with Isaac and had a serious conversation about what is happening.  It looks like they tell him things when the situation warrants it and expect him to just roll with it. 

[CofCinci]

17 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

The only thing I saw no problem with was the vibrator, lol-- it's not like you'll be with kids 100% of the time. I'm sure guys on a vacation pleasure themselves in the bathroom or in a private moment in the bedroom, not sure why it's different for a girl. I did think it was trashy and creepy to talk about it on TV, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't be on TV, or at least not this show, at all, though. 

Kail most likely paid for Sterling's mother to come on the trip so that the mother can watch the children while she screws around. If she can't find a guy/gal to schmang, she's got her Rabbit. 

Speaking of trips ---  I think the Legoland promotion was originally slated for Kail, Javi and the boys. I remember discussion of a planned Orlando trip once Javi returned from deployment (before their marriage broke apart).  Guess Lego/MTV used Janelle as the fill-in? Ha. 

Yep http://okmagazine.com/photos/kailyn-lowry-javi-marroquin-divorce-deployment-teen-mom/

Janelle got Kail's sloppy seconds!  Maybe thirds? Surely they offered other mothers the trip before Janelle and her future murderer. 

1. Kail - divorcing

2. Chelsea - pregnancy, wedding planning

3. Maci - new baby, no Bud Lite at Lego land

4. Farrah - Baby Goo is not into Legos

5. Amber - couldn't be bothered to do anything with her child 

6. Catelynn - Boogietown

7. Leah - Pillses are back

8. Janelle - not murdered by David Eason yet.

Sloppy Eighths!!!!

Edited January 17, 2017 by CofCinci

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Teen Mom 2's Kailyn Realizes That Life Has Never Been A Beach

Kail's in the ocean, but Leah's hometown is underwater.

[mrsh]

Kail is such a hosebeast! I get that she's angry at Javi. I however, cannot understand why she couldn't take the boys to his homecoming. After such a long separation it would have been a nice experience for the boys to go pick up their dad, bedtimes be damned. The truth is that she didn't want to make the effort. I hate Javi, but you could see the disappointment in Isaac's face at not going to meet Javi. 

Also, Leah was high as a kite. Fyi, Jermy didn't divorce you because you were running around at 9 o'clock,  he divorced you because you were dick hopping all over town while he worked his ass off to support you.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, imjagain said:

It was right at the beginning, they were in the truck.  Jace burped a few times.  Then that idiot David said,  something like,  "excuse you,  Mr fancy Mr fancy pants figure  skater" 

I actually said wtf? 

Oh okay, so it seems like he was surprised that Jace burped, because he sees him as very prissy? And he previously called Kaiser a "little bitch", like Nathan. Jenelle has almost remarked that David can teach the boys how to "be men". There is something very very off about his interpretation of manliness. And I have a big, bearded, outdoorsman kind of husband. But I have seen nothing about Jace that would make him seem like a "fancy pants figure skater". I mean, even if he liked figure skating, who cares? But I just don't see where David gets this crap from. 

 

34 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

I agreed with Leah that Jeremy was wrong-- the Ohio thing was fucked up IMO, and deliberate-- until she refused to speak to him. Even when homegirl is right, she sabotages herself. She can't be emotionally mature for a second. 

Right? I got her indignation about how he handled things. But if you're THAT worried about the kid, why aren't you answering the phone???

 

35 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Why couldn't Kail and Javi have said he would share a room with Lincoln, like someone said above? Javi *does* have responsibility for Isaac because both he and Kail made it a huge deal that he become his parent. He was told to call him dad and Javi regularly called him "my son." Poor Isaac shouldn't suffer now because of those two douchebags and their inability to stop tweeting angrily about each other. 

I agree. You don't just drop the kid because you dropped the mom. My husband married his first wife when she had a little baby from a previous relationship. He took the girl on as his own and when they split shortly after, he stayed in her life. He had a room for her and saw her on weekends and everything....until his ex re-married and iced him out when the girl was 10. It was devastating for him, but he tried to do the right thing. If Jo and Kail are on board with it, there's no reason Javi can't make time for Isaac as well. And don't the brothers share a room now anyhow? What's the big deal if they share one at Javi's? 

 

25 minutes ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

I feel like no one has sat down with Isaac and had a serious conversation about what is happening.  It looks like they tell him things when the situation warrants it and expect him to just roll with it. 

Yea, Kail said she briefly mentioned Javi having his own place when he got back....but didn't say why. Isaac isn't a baby. You can explain what's going on. He'll be less scared if he understands, even if it still sucks. 

[DangerousMinds]

36 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

The only thing I saw no problem with was the vibrator, lol-- it's not like you'll be with kids 100% of the time. I'm sure guys on a vacation pleasure themselves in the bathroom or in a private moment in the bedroom, not sure why it's different for a girl. I did think it was trashy and creepy to talk about it on TV, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't be on TV, or at least not this show, at all, though. 

Just do it and don't tell anybody like a normal freaking human! 

I agree, but why does anyone else need to know about it?

[GreatKazu]

 

From above (Previously TV recap links)... Kail's in the ocean...the jokes write themselves.

[ReadMeLattice]

5 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I agree, but why does anyone else need to know about it?

Yeah, I don't see a vibrator itself as gross at all but keep that shit private. She does that with everything though. Fine, get plastic surgery, get new cars, you do you & whatever makes you happy-- nobody really cares or has a chance to "hate" if you just keep it to yourself!! The problem is she doesn't want neutrality, she wants praise for everything. I guess a holdover from a messed up childhood but it would be hard to deal with. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Lm2162

[DangerousMinds]

1 minute ago, Lm2162 said:

Well that's what I said-- I don't see a vibrator itself as gross at all but keep that shit private. She does that with everything though. Fine, get plastic surgery, get new cars, you do you & whatever makes you happy-- nobody really cares or has a chance to "hate" if you just keep it to yourself!! The problem is she doesn't want neutrality, she wants praise for everything. I guess a holdover from a messed up childhood but it would be hard to deal with. 

Yes, I agree with everything you said.:)

[ReadMeLattice]

@ghoulina, Leah's concern over Addie was well founded, but then it turned out to be just about getting angry at Jeremy. It's like, hello, yes you should know where your kid is! Now answer the damn phone! There are so many things I'd have more sympathy for with her if she didn't act like everything was a manipulative game. 

[ClassyCourtHeels]

1 hour ago, GrayMatter said:

Check out Leah's pupils. It doesn't take Dr. Drew to see what's going on here. My guess is that she is abusing her own scripts (thus, she probably does not consider this drug abuse).

 

No doubt. This is why she "passed" her drug test a season or two ago. It was because the had a prescription for the medicine. 

 

However you could tell she wasn't taking said prescription properly and abusing it. 

[ReadMeLattice]

Isaac and Jace both seem like sweet kids. I have no idea why or how with their family situations, especially Jace. You can see when Barb and Jenelle start in, he just wants to sink into the floor. :( 

2 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

That is such a fucked up thing to say.

It was, he's such a gross waste of space. :( 

[BitterApple]

In slight defense of Jenelle, I can understand why they didn't take Kaiser to Disney. You can't really maximize your time there if you're stuck with a toddler who's going to get tired and cranky halfway through the day. Just taking the older kids gave them a lot more flexibility in their schedule.

I understand Isaac's confusion with regards to the living arrangements. Kail has spent the last three years drilling it into his head that Javi is "Dad". So naturally Isaac is thinking why wouldn't he go with Lincoln to Daddy's house and have his own bedroom like he does at Jo's? Kail created a real mess with this one and its sad Isaac is paying the price.

[Ljohnson1987]

Why can't Javi decide whether or not Isaac has his own room in his home? It's not up to Kail. 

[ChocolateAddict]

Re Jace, kids love trips to Disneyland and holidays.  But you know what else they love? Routine.  Knowing that during the week I live with Meme and I go to school and she picks me up, helps me with my homework, feeds me dinner and we go to bed.  Knowing that the same thing will happen tomorrow and the day after that and the day after that.

Working with kids, not knowing what comes next can be fucking petrifying for them.  As adults, we know that if something happens that we don't like, there are options for to get out of the situation - e.g. walking away, driving away, calling the police if necessary.  But for a child, if something happens there is a sense of being trapped.  If Jenelle and UBT get in an argument, Jace literally cannot remove himself from the situation.  He is stuck in their house/hotel room and that is why he self-soothes (which is bloody heartbreaking to watch). Jenelle is phenomenally unpredictable and for Jace that would actually be quite scary, not knowing who is going to be at her house, what the routine is, where they are going.  

My heart genuinely breaks for Jace when he is with Jenelle.  He has no control in often volatile situations and knows that no one in her house has his best interests at heart.  I can't imagine what it must be like for him to be uprooted from what he knows on an unpredictable basis (given that Jenelle takes him whenever is convenient) and thrown into a house with zero routine and where he doesn't know what is happening next.  

I truly believe that it is damaging for Jace to be with Jenelle.  Children with no routine simply cannot thrive, we are starting to see that also with the girlses.  Without predictability, there is no security and so the child can't relax because they don't know what is happening next.  Especially since there have been indications that Jace has problems behaviorally, stability is so important. 

[ClassyCourtHeels]

12 minutes ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

Why can't Javi decide whether or not Isaac has his own room in his home? It's not up to Kail. 

Because it is up to Kail as to whether or not Isaac goes over there. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

I totally get why Leah was pissed about Germy not picking up the phone when she tried to call him.  Once my husband (the SAHD) took our kiddo on a spur of the moment trip to see his sister a couple of hours away. I had a shitty day and locked myself out of the house and I just wanted to talk to my kid. And I was annoyed with him. And we're in a happy marriage!

But it's possibly that Germy was driving and you know, he can't have Brooke answer his phone because then Leah would flip out x 2.

He can't win. And Leah makes sure he can't win because she always has to be the victim. Poor, poor Leah.

[GreatKazu]

27 minutes ago, ClassyCourtHeels said:

Because it is up to Kail as to whether or not Isaac goes over there. 

In a nutshell. Miss I Always Have a Plan aka I always have shady things planned. In her eyes, there is no need for a room for Isaac or for him to have much at Javi's home because she will decide to keep Isaac from going there too often.

Edited January 17, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Mkay]

Leah's freaking out over Jeremy was over dramatic. It's not like Jeremy has ever let Addy wonder off to places unknown only to have a cop bring her home.  Maybe there were cell phone issues because there was a flood? My phone never makes the beep, beep noise when someone hangs up on me. 

[toodywoody]

So The Roll is a whiney little bitch like his dad and Jace is Mr Fancy Pants Figure Skater. wtf is wrong with this asshole. And Janelle just let's him say this shit about her kids. She's an even bigger asshole.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, ChocolateAddict said:

 Jenelle is phenomenally unpredictable and for Jace that would actually be quite scary, not knowing who is going to be at her house, what the routine is, where they are going.  

This can't be stated enough. Jenelle's interest in Jace waxes and wanes with the moon. One second she's Fun Time Mom taking Jace on excursions and the next she's having screaming matches with Dave and Barb. She toys with the idea of regaining custody only to drop it like a hot potato when it doesn't suit her needs. Her current boyfriend is intimidating and volatile. Her last boyfriend was intimidating and volatile. Jace isn't stupid. A bag of candy and a trip to Legoland isn't going to make him want to leave the comfort and stability of his grandmother's house for the chaos of Jenelle's.

[teapot]

1 hour ago, ChocolateAddict said:

 

I truly believe that it is damaging for Jace to be with Jenelle.  Children with no routine simply cannot thrive, we are starting to see that also with the girlses.  Without predictability, there is no security and so the child can't relax because they don't know what is happening next.  Especially since there have been indications that Jace has problems behaviorally, stability is so important. 

it's true!  and they're almost always just dragged along, without any warning....except Aubree.  Even Isaac, "oh, Javi's back...nope he doesn't live with us, Lincoln has a room, you?  not so much!"

 I'd always have to alert boy-child to a change in his schedule ("Mom's working late, Mimi's picking you up") or even the smallest thing, "we ran out of salami so you have a ham sandwich tomorrow instead, ok? "  I can't imagine a child's life just happening without them knowing what's going on!

[CofCinci]

What did everyone think of Janelle apologizing to David for agreeing to meet Nathan halfway during parental time drop-offs?  Holy shit. She was afraid to tell him that she made a reasonable, mature decision that is ultimately in Kaiser's best interest....

Janelle is a terrible person and a horrible mother - but she doesn't deserve to be abused and hurt. She'll be choked by September. 

[NoirDetective]

7 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Janelle is a terrible person and a horrible mother - but she doesn't deserve to be abused and hurt.

Well...she doesn't not deserve to be abused and hurt.

Janelle needs more consequences, not less. I would prefer David not being the arbiter of that over perceived and stupid slights, but I'm at a point with her where I'll take what I can get.

[GreatKazu]

Quote

What did everyone think of Janelle apologizing to David for agreeing to meet Nathan halfway during parental time drop-offs?  Holy shit. She was afraid to tell him that she made a reasonable, mature decision that is ultimately in Kaiser's best interest....

Janelle is a terrible person and a horrible mother - but she doesn't deserve to be abused and hurt. She'll be choked by September. 

The same thing I mentioned when it happened in the last episode - Jenelle is scared. The apologies to David for doing what most parents would do for their kids in similar situations, just screams fear to me. She is taking the blame and putting right on herself. Anything to soothe over any possible squabble that may happen when the camera crews disappear.

[teapot]

do you guys remember an Ask the Dads special when one of the questions was, what would you do if your child accidentally dropped your phone in the toilet?  and David said something like "beat the shit out of her" and they had to edit it out?  yeah, he's just not right...

[lezlers]

2 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

I totally get why Leah was pissed about Germy not picking up the phone when she tried to call him.  Once my husband (the SAHD) took our kiddo on a spur of the moment trip to see his sister a couple of hours away. I had a shitty day and locked myself out of the house and I just wanted to talk to my kid. And I was annoyed with him. And we're in a happy marriage!

But it's possibly that Germy was driving and you know, he can't have Brooke answer his phone because then Leah would flip out x 2.

He can't win. And Leah makes sure he can't win because she always has to be the victim. Poor, poor Leah.

The thing I kept wondering about during her little temper tantrum was "does she call up Germy and let him know every time she goes anywhere with Addie?"  Yeah, I didn't fucking think so you drugged out hick.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

This can't be stated enough. Jenelle's interest in Jace waxes and wanes with the moon. One second she's Fun Time Mom taking Jace on excursions and the next she's having screaming matches with Dave and Barb.

Jenelle only wants to do the fun stuff. When have we seen her doing homework with him? Or taking him to a doctor's appointment? Having a heart to heart with him about a mean kid at school? Teaching him to use the potty or drink from a big kid cup? These are all the daily tasks Meme has had to do, and then Jenelle thinks she can whisk by, take the kid to Disney, and he'll love her forever. Kids aren't stupid. They know who their real caregivers are.  

[teapot]

30 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Jenelle only wants to do the fun stuff. When have we seen her doing homework with him? Or taking him to a doctor's appointment? Having a heart to heart with him about a mean kid at school? Teaching him to use the potty or drink from a big kid cup? These are all the daily tasks Meme has had to do, and then Jenelle thinks she can whisk by, take the kid to Disney, and he'll love her forever. Kids aren't stupid. They know who their real caregivers are.  

and it just comes out of him sometimes..."I'll miss Mommy!" or one time he said "Mom has popsicles at home!"  when his answers aren't guarded, it's clear where his heart is.  I just worry about when he's older, the feelings he'll have toward Jenelle.  And I hope I'm wrong but I can see him growing up to be a troublemaker, so I can sort of see him playing the two off of eachother.  And Barb's in her 60s, isn't she?  Hopefully she still has a long, long life ahead of her.  situations like this aren't ideal at all.

[jumper sage]

4 hours ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

Also, Kai is going to look back on the Disney trip, and wonder why he wasn't there.

I doubt that.  He is too little to even appreciate it.  Too much noise and people for that age.  I think at least 5 years of age is a good age.

 

4 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Da real MVP award goes to: Jo Rivera.  He could be very petty and hurtful to Kail/Javi but he isn't because he is a father.  He has matured a lot in the last few years. It's clear how much he loves his son and tries to make decisions in his kid's best interest. 

I completely agree.  Jo has shown so much growth and I am proud of him.  

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I understand Isaac's confusion with regards to the living arrangements. Kail has spent the last three years drilling it into his head that Javi is "Dad". So naturally Isaac is thinking why wouldn't he go with Lincoln to Daddy's house and have his own bedroom like he does at Jo's? Kail created a real mess with this one and its sad Isaac is paying the price.

She should have been a responsible parent and made sure both boys knew which dad they had and how the other dad complimented the family.  I have said before that my sister had a girl with her first husband, had an affair, then married and later had a boy with her second husband, had an affair and divorced second husband, they recently remarried.  Anyways.  Both men love both children and while both were divorced they would take both children themselves or each take their own child and meet up for activities or to just hang out.  Both children know who their father is and have never had their mother talk bad about their fathers.  I guess it's easier for us for the "bad" one is in our family.  She did put her own stuff aside to be mature and hurt her children as little as she could, under the circumstances.  Now the girl is married and has a baby and both "grandpas" work as a team to hustle the baby away from the inlaws.  They have their own shit, the inlaws.  The boy grew up saying his sister's father was "my stepdad in reverse".  I thought that was cute and a good way to explain things.  I like how Cory and Jo both recognize Addie and Lincoln every time they see them.

What Kail has done is so mean and Isaac will know it as he grows.  I do like that NOW Kail recognizes Jo, his wife/girlfriend and their baby.  Not so hard is it? 

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

 

What did everyone think of Janelle apologizing to David for agreeing to meet Nathan halfway during parental time drop-offs?  Holy shit. She was afraid to tell him that she made a reasonable, mature decision that is ultimately in Kaiser's best interest...

 

I clapped for her for once and then it went downhill from there.  MTV is big on anti-bullying and here we have Jace being bullied on screen.

[Brooklynista]

5 hours ago, CofCinci said:

I don't think he wanted to call Jace an asshole.  Mr. Fancy Pants Figure Skater is David's television-appropriate version of f@ggot.  This poor kid. 

That's what I really thought I just didn't know how to sanitize the word. Thanks!

[ReadMeLattice]

2 hours ago, NoirDetective said:

Well...she doesn't not deserve to be abused and hurt.

Janelle needs more consequences, not less. I would prefer David not being the arbiter of that over perceived and stupid slights, but I'm at a point with her where I'll take what I can get.

Abuse is *not* a consequence. Her mom was abused and didn't deserve it. Nobody deserves abuse, no matter how shitty they are. She's been abusive too and her victims didn't deserve it even though they were shitty, equally abusive people like Nathan and Courtland. 

I hate Jenelle, but being abused more will continue the cycle that started many generations ago in her family. Being treated well would likely help her not to abuse her own children, maybe to learn a different way. She had to see her mom being abused and has issues with men partly because of it and so do her two siblings (both have major mental health and violence issues), now her kids see her being abused. When does it end? Comeuppance and revenge do nothing for anybody. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Lm2162

[smores]

Honestly, I think Javi bears a lot of responsibility for the relationship with Isaac, not just Kail.  It is a challenge when you live in a house with a younger sibling to keep all of it straight, especially when one kid calls the male person in the house dad, but the other one calls that person by a different name.  I have been there.  We all called him dad, and he was (and still is, since they are still married) our dad.  The siblings who were technically his step-children had visitation with their bio-parent one day a week, but other than that, we functioned as a "normal" nuclear family, mom, dad, kids, for the rest of the week.  It worked.  Now, my dad bought all in from day one with being our father, regardless of what we opted to call him (that was our choice), and nothing would change that.  Had my parents divorced, I am confident that he would have made a custody arrangement that included all of the kids, not just "his" kid.  

I think Kail is trying to prepare Isaac for what might happen (or, she knows what is going to happen and neither adult will just sit the kid down and come out with it, which is doing more damage), and that's not an easy task.  When Isaac said he wanted a Jurassic Park room, Javi's response was "Jurassic Park, huh?"  If they are going to share a room, Javi could have indicated that they could pick some JP stuff and some stuff for Lincoln.  Or, when Isaac was clearly upset that he might not have his own room, Javi could have stepped in and said, "No, buddy, you have your own room and we'll decorate it" or "Well, you won't get your own room, but we'll pick up some cool sheets for your bed!" But . . . Javi didn't say anything.  The fact that he said nothing leads me to believe that he's not really planning to include Isaac in things, and that is shitty.  It is also squarely on Javi, given that he got all in with the kid and this is how his family was run.  Maybe he didn’t realize how it would affect Isaac, but seeing it didn't seem to change his plans, and that's shitty of Javi.  That leaves Kail to pick up those pieces, but Javi is the one who broke them.

[ReadMeLattice]

@smores, yeah I totally agree. They both bear the responsibility for that one. Javi was adamant about getting married quickly and being Big Papi to both kids, and Kail was only too happy to oblige. Now Isaac is paying for their idiocy and immaturity. 

[ghoulina]

6 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

, yeah I totally agree. They both bear the responsibility for that one. Javi was adamant about getting married quickly and being Big Papi to both kids, and Kail was only too happy to oblige. Now Isaac is paying for their idiocy and immaturity. 

And I worry they're BOTH still too immature to make it happen for Isaac. They've both talked a good game to friends and producers, about making sure Isaac gets to see Javi as well. But I worry their egos will come into play. Kail won't want to give Javi any more than she's legally required to (including time with her first son) and Javi will reject Isaac as a way of rejecting Kail (he's done it before). 

[Brooklynista]

I never felt Javi was really that into Isaac. I always thought he was just playing super daddy to stick it to Jo.

[GreatKazu]

Javi has that tattoo of Isaac's face on his arm. Did he get Kail's name tattooed as well?

[ghoulina]

I was always back and forth on it. Sometimes his affection seemed SUPER genuine. But then he'd turn around and play that "He's not my kid" crap with Kail. These people are so fucking petty, I can never tell if they're just assholes or trying to stick it to the other. Maybe both. 

[lezlers]

42 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I was always back and forth on it. Sometimes his affection seemed SUPER genuine. But then he'd turn around and play that "He's not my kid" crap with Kail. These people are so fucking petty, I can never tell if they're just assholes or trying to stick it to the other. Maybe both. 

She did tell Jo that Javi is hot and cold and I believe her.  I also believe she's petty and vindictive and her comments about not forcing a relationship between Javi and Issac had the vibe that she's not going to go out of her way when it comes to Issac's relationship with Javi which is really shitty given how hard she pushed the father/son relationship with the two of them.   If my husband and I divorced and he had my kids calling his new woman "mommy" within a year, there'd be problems.  Jo has shown a great deal of maturity by not making a big deal out of that.