S08.E06: A Shocking Revelation

[ReadMeLattice]

14 hours ago, Granny58 said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Every single study done on gay parents says that a father (or, for that matter, a mother) makes no difference. In some ways kids of gay parents are even better adjusted than kids of straight parents. So while one can have one's personal opinion about the gender of parents mattering, that opinion is only about one's personal feelings and is not supported by the wealth of research done on the issue. 

And it IS awesome to come out! So freeing. 

[andromeda331]

I've been trying to decide about Mariah's reaction to her mother and her anger. I admit most of the deciding comes from having known people who's mothers had affairs. I've known quite a few and each had different reactions that I can't say which one is right or not. Its how they felt and what they could handle. Some were able to let it go or pretend it never happened they don't ever talk about it. One friend and his brother chose to cut their mother out of their lives, they didn't want to talk to her or hear from her. They couldn't and still can't talk to her because it hurts too much. To them it felt like she didn't care about them or what would happen to them when their dad learned of the affair and divorce that followed or how they would feel about. Another still has her mother in her life but their relationship changed from that moment, she doesn't really respect her. If the anger is what Mariah truly feels or if she's not ready, she might not be for along time or ever. Or she maybe just sick of her mother's still not owning up to her part in it. Its really hard to forgive when the parent isn't owning up to it. Meri's wanting it to be over and her daughter to immediately forgive her really isn't that uncommon. But its not up to parent who had the affair to decide how long their kid should be angry. A couple in the same situation I knew tried and that really only made things worse.  

    Is one year enough to be over something like that? In the cases I've know its been no. If this is about power then yes Mariah's being a brat. If its truly how she's handling her mother's affair and the catfish, and just where she's at in her feelings towards it, then okay. I do feel bad for her. Its got to be hard having pretty much the entire country knowing that your mother cheated and was catfished. Who then published a book about the affair, who released voicemails and pictures. It was hard enough for the kids I knew having to deal with kids at school talking about their mother's affair.  And in Mariah's case, had Sam turned out to be real, Meri would have left. She was preparing to do so to leave her husband and their family, to run off with Sam only to learn he wasn't real. She warned her mother and she refused to listen. She also took her to Disneyland in hopes of introducing Sam to her. That's a lot to deal with and to get over in one year.  Especially with it constantly being brought up on TV, with her mother conveniently leaving parts out.

[ReadMeLattice]

3 hours ago, Granny58 said:

But, if Mariah is allowed (even applauded) for having her feelings, it is equally important that Meri be allowed to express hers.  She is not rejecting Mariah, only expressing her own emotions.  That should be okay too.

I disagree. Meri's feelings are of little importance about another adult's sexuality. What if their kids "just expressed their feelings" about how uncomfortable they are with their parents being polygamists? Maybe that's not what THEY would prefer. But guess what, it's not their business even if it's their family. 

I am a mom and I'd be disgusted with myself if I acted the way Meri did. This is not about Meri in any way. But she made it all about herself.

If she needs to "adjust," that's fine I guess, but it's inherently demeaning and implies disappointment, and she shouldn't expect a positive or warm reaction from her daughter. She can "adjust" on her own time. Mariah owes her nothing in the meantime. When she wants to fully accept her, they can move on. She doesn't have to be subjected to her mother's moaning. 

14 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I totally understand that Meri has to let go of her plans and expectations for Mariah's life. All parents end up with plans in their head for their offsprings life. When those plans are not the reality, parents have to adjust. It could be being gay, career or school choices, military... or God forbid, disabilities that happen.  Meri has the right to need to take time to adjust. In addition, Mariah is her only child. If you don't have children, you won't understand this. 

 

Mariah is a brat. She sits there with a smirk on her face because she's thrown a curve ball to Meri's head. 

Meri found a way to make this all about herself. If her daughter is a brat, she definitely learned from the best. Meri is somehow an expert at making every situation about her emotions. 

And if she had such specific expectations, that's on her. I have no expectations for what my kids' relationships will be like or if or when they will have kids. That's narcissistic IMO. That's all up to them. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Lm2162

[ghoulina]

29 minutes ago, SuzyLee said:

I agree to an extent, but I've always thought that the family's fear in high-tailing it to Vegas was way overblown and exaggerated, just as I think Meri's revisionist history regarding her "fear" of the catfish is complete bullshit.

Couldn't agree more. And I was especially annoyed that they snuck that "fleeing from Utah" drama into the "Vacation Tips" episode. That wasn't a vacation. That was a pack of morons exhibiting very impulsive and reactionary behavior, and the only bright spot was watching how badly it went wrong within the first 30 minutes. I think the multiple flats was a message from the god of Nevada - stay out of our state!

[VioletNevermind]

21 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

My wife and I are not sure this is true. My wife and I think the prosecutor and the State of Utah were positively salivating over the opportunity to crucify this family and make an example of them. They obviously haven't cared enough to do anything about what's going on at Short Creek, but the Browns provided them the perfect opportunity to say "See? We are doing something about those wicked, bad, naughty, evil polygamists!" After all, if Utah actually cared about this, there's a whole community right on their southern border where they knew polygamists were "hiding in plain sight" the whole time. They could have done something about polygamy (and a truly evilly-practiced form of it at that!) any time they wanted to. It was only when the Browns went public and made the state and the LDS church look bad nationally that they decided they had to do something about it. Even the situation at Short Creek is the same in that regard: It's only once national attention began to focus on them that the State (really, the LDS church, since they're in control of government there from the state level to the local level) started to do anything about them. Provided the Browns weren't manipulating any of the social support systems (food stamps, etc), the state and the LDS church should have simply continued ignoring them. Nothing good could have come from jailing the Brown family primaries or inflicting any punishments or penalties upon the family.

I can't deny anything you've said, but I think the State of Utah would have had a much higher chance of success even as few as 10-15 years ago.  Breaking up this family would have been a public relations nightmare in 2010 and would not have been viewed kindly in the rest of the country that isn't steeped in Mormonism.  I suspect that the Browns knew that, but they milked the "fear" for all it was worth.  Much of the country views their polygamy with a shrug, grateful that they're not either married or "married" to that shaggy asshat.  YMMV, of course.

Edited January 9, 2017 by SuzyLee

[ReadMeLattice]

Like @CofCinci said, I have no doubt that homophobic comments were made after the JO revelation. We know they were in the media, at the very least. That must have been difficult to watch while figuring out you're gay. 

[Wings]

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

Mariah may want an apology from Meri but I don't think it would in any way change the way Mariah acts about it or treats Meri. She doesn't want to understand or have a resolution. She wants to blame and punish Meri as much as possible. She refused to even entertain Kody's comment that his behavior contributed to her unhappiness. She is loving lording this over her mom with a great big 'I told you so'. 

She is young.  Early 20s are far worse than the teen years.  It is a crucial time in development and prime for mother daughter conflict.  There is a lot on her plate, she isn't a brat she is moving through some growing struggles.  She will move through it as all do. 

[SongbirdHollow]

15 hours ago, Granny58 said:

If my ONLY child told me he is gay I would always love him BUT I totally understand Meri and feel her pain.  It also distresses me the way Robyn completely disregarded the child's right to a father, like it is no big deal.  I also completely agree with Kody that his function is to love and not judge.  What I don't understand is grandma's "awesome" at the big reveal.  Why was it awesome?

Because she won't be married to a plyg man.

[Adiba]

50 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Every single study done on gay parents says that a father (or, for that matter, a mother) makes no difference. In some ways kids of gay parents are even better adjusted than kids of straight parents. So while one can have one's personal opinion about the gender of parents mattering, that opinion is only about one's personal feelings and is not supported by the wealth of research done on the issue. 

And it IS awesome to come out! So freeing. 

Yes, studies have shown that there is no discernible disadvantage to having same- sex parents. But in the OP's defense, I don't think that's exactly what was meant. Many people do search for biolgical information or connections in life if they are missing. And if that info is available to them, so much the better. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I've always thought it odd how when something tragic happens and a young person dies,, the saying is, "Oh, I will never get the the chance to see her walk down the isle, have her first child, etc"   I get what they are saying, but, it seems like their only accomplishments in their life is getting married and having a child.  What if that doesn't happen.  Single people are valuable too. lol 

Does anyone remember that joke that Meri and Janelle pulled on Mariah where they painted themselves with bushy dark eyebrows?  Is Mariah trying to get back at them? It looks like she's colored and expanded her brows for sure. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Marigold]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree with many of the observations upthread about how Meri just can't seem to get out of her own head.  I've been pretty critical of her, but, last night, I caught a glimpse of someone that I really do believe is CLUELESS.  The way she just can't seem to wrap her brain around things....I've always thought that she was pretending to be that way.  And how she's not able to process things.  She says that a lot.  Well, I think it's TRUE!  She really doesn't seem to be able to get it.  It's like her mind is stuck somewhere in 1969.  Yes, it's her daughter who has announced she is gay, but, her sentiments reminded me of a devoutly religious person, who lives in a isolated region of the country, (never met a gay couple)  and who was born before 1932. (No offense to those seniors over the age of 85.)  Has her head been in the sand since her daughter was born?  

If she was really honest and had no idea that Mariah was gay, then why did others in the family who hadn't even known Mariah for that long know? 

And when Meri used the term "weird," in her conversation with Mariah, I do believe that she meant that the idea of Mariah being gay was weird.  I don't buy that turnaround excuse she used about her meaning that her own reaction was weird.  She tried to backtrack, but, I don't buy it. 

When Meri said that she didn't know how to react to the news, well, there were 4 other women in the room who's reactions she could have mimicked if she really didn't know what to do.  I call it BS.  

As this season has provided so much focus on Meri, it has dawned on me that she would a very difficult person to contend with and tolerate.  I get how Kody is over it.  I really do. 

I agree 1000%.

I really think something is wrong with Meri.  She seems a bit slow in all areas of life. I have a hard time understanding this because she is 45, married, has Mariah and bonus children...she claims to have worked a bit with at risk kids.  She reads and writes and seems to have graduated high school. Something is not adding up.  Can she be that dumb??? It appears she can be. 

At first I was wondering what the heck Robyn was doing so involved in all of this...then I realized, Kody cannot handle Meri anymore and he subconsciously realized that the needed help.  

I can't believe I'm typing this, but after watching last night, Kody has probably has enough of Meri and I can't blame him.  I would not want to be anywhere near Meri.  She has no redeeming qualities at all.

All that time deciding where to sit???  Meri is like a mental patient who has to be "handled".    Robyn used that tone of voice that you use when you are dealing with someone who is going to seriously loose it and you are trying to keep them calm and safe.  Meri's behavior over seating is not normal. If she behaves like that over seating, can you even imagine going through life with her? I can't blame Kody for their relationship mess.  Kody has his problems but Meri has something seriously wrong with her. Not to mention Meri seems to be a pathological liar. It matches up with what Janelle said over their first few years of marriage; she described Meri as very abusive and controlling. I really think Meri is a sick woman. 

This was Robyn's best episode.  I wonder if she has gotten a bad edit in the past.  I know reality shows are scripted but she actually made some sense last night and seemed to be pretty normal. 

[Granny58]

23 minutes ago, SongbirdHollow said:

Because she won't be married to a plyg man.

LOL.  I actually did wonder if she meant THAT!  And that would make perfect sense. 

[Marigold]

I think Grandma Annie was happy to see the kids break out of the "plyg mold".

I also liked how Grandma Annie is not her bio grandmother and they seem to have a good relationship.  

[Sista Snarky]

1 hour ago, toodles said:

Yeah and that I'm bolting any minute Alaska dinner scene where the catfish story line started was an interesting touch on tlc' s part.  Every time she revises the whole I was such a victim, waa, waa, tlc reruns that scene.  I laugh every time they do that.  Well done, tlc, well done.

TLC even used the Alaska scene in the Brown travel show. 

The narrator said something like..

#10 "the special this evening" or "on the menu tonight"...Catfish. 

[ReadMeLattice]

8 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I've always thought it odd how when something tragic happens and a young person dies,, the saying is, "Oh, I will never get the the chance to see her walk down the isle, have her first child, etc"   I get what they are saying, but, it seems like their only accomplishments in their life is getting married and having a child.  What if that doesn't happen.  Single people are valuable too. lol 

Does anyone remember that joke that Meri and Janelle pulled on Mariah where they painted themselves with bushy dark eyebrows?  Is Mariah trying to get back at them? It looks like she's colored and expanded her brows for sure. 

Omg don't get me started...People have these obsessions with images in their mind and we're supposed to cater to them. My husband had a PhD and a law degree when he got married, worked full time teaching college, had published widely and worked in theatre on the side. But because he is in a wheelchair, there was drama over him "not standing at the altar." Even though he was getting married, is now a dad, and is more accomplished than most of the "devastated" family members. Their comments devastated him. Particularly around things like marriage and kids, we have these weird particular cultural things (like walking down the aisle) that *must* happen and people don't understand how their total obsessions with those particular things can hurt others. And we're expected to pity and cater to the people with those obsessions. 

[MrSmith]

13 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I've always thought it odd how when something tragic happens and a young person dies,, the saying is, "Oh, I will never get the the chance to see her walk down the isle, have her first child, etc"   I get what they are saying, but, it seems like their only accomplishments in their life is getting married and having a child.  What if that doesn't happen.  Single people are valuable too. lol 

My wife and I dealt with scorn, anger, and hostility from my parents for over a decade because we decided not to have children. They mostly blamed her because, of course, there's no way I could be self-aware and have come to the conclusion that I was not suited to fatherhood at that time and therefore decided not to inflict myself on unsuspecting, defenseless, innocent third parties. Of course, by the time I got to my late 30's, I had a much better handle on my emotions and reactions and I would now make a great father, but the question has long since been asked and answered. My parents seem to be mostly resigned to this now and have calmed down the last several years, but it was rough going there for a while.

[okerry]

15 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

I believe the kids of my lesbian friends would say it was no big deal that they didn't have a father. And I never knew it was a child's right to have one parent or the other. Robyn was absolutely correct in saying it doesn't matter who contributes the sperm, there will be two loving moms in Mariah's family.

I absolutely disagree. Every child has the right to at least know who their father is, even if the decision to see that father has to wait until the child is of legal age. And unless they're dangerous/abusive, every father has the right to at least visit that child. Cutting the male out of the process and pretending he does not exist is not the solution to a two-woman marriage.

And I can see why Robyn would say such a thing and the other SWs might agree - because their own kids have very little more than a sperm donor for a father, either. Interesting.

[Marigold]

people often get stuck on minor details and overlook the big picture.

Robyn did have the best thought when she said "imagine how great it will be when Mariah comes home with someone she TRULY loves" 

Meri is missing the big picture...she is stuck on gender.  Meri misses the big picture in most things. 

[TeaTV]

What struck me most in this episode was how Meri was able to tell Robyn the REAL reason she was so upset by the not-so-shocking "revelation" but when she had the opportunity to tell Mariah, all she could say whine was, "My feeeeelings are weeeird, my feeeelings are weeerid."  

Seems to me the real reason Meri was so upset was because she wanted a relationship with a SON-in law like CALEB or TONY --not a (gasp) lesbian female. I guess she has her share of women in her life and wants another adult male all to herself. She was recently catfished by a "man" and her sister wife son-in-laws are rarely around and will most likely never have a close relationship with her). And we all know how warm and fuzzy her marriage to Kody is.... 

In addition, maybe Mariah doesn't want much to do with Meri (especially if Meri's admitted she wanted a SON in law to Mariah off-cam) because, honestly, that seems kinda homophobic.

[ReadMeLattice]

18 minutes ago, okerry said:

I absolutely disagree. Every child has the right to at least know who their father is, even if the decision to see that father has to wait until the child is of legal age. And unless they're dangerous/abusive, every father has the right to at least visit that child. Cutting the male out of the process and pretending he does not exist is not the solution to a two-woman marriage.

And I can see why Robyn would say such a thing and the other SWs might agree - because their own kids have very little more than a sperm donor for a father, either. Interesting.

Over a third of kids of straight parents don't have dads in their lives. Maternal abandonment has also recently increased. The data on those situations shows that those kids suffer socially, academically, mentally and financially. The data on kids of stable lesbian and gay couples shows that they don't.

Beyond that, a *majority* of children are now born outside of a committed union. 

Maybe straight people should worry about their own issues with parental abandonment before they worry about stable gay families. 

Also, many heterosexual couples and single people use donor sperm or surrogates for infertility. Straight and/or single older or infertile women often use donor eggs. Way more than you know, because many keep it secret (since they can because there's a man and woman in the picture). Are they equally wrong? 

Finally, if people truly only want gay couples to adopt and think using donor sperm or surrogates is wrong, perhaps they should fight against the rampant discrimination against gay couples by foster and adoption agencies, should also fight for adoption to be less of an enormous financial burden, and should fight against the workplace discrimination that causes many gay couples to be financially not as well off as straight ones. Condemning people who work with the few options they've got doesn't seem to work. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Lm2162

[TeaTV]

Why is everyone assuming Mariah's future children will never know their father? Is it beyond imagination that she may be inseminated by a friend who takes part in her child's life and not just some anonymous doner?

[ReadMeLattice]

17 minutes ago, okerry said:

 

Sorry, won't let me remove this box.

2 minutes ago, trose said:

Why is everyone assuming Mariah's future children will never know their father? Is it beyond imagination that she may be inseminated by a friend who takes part in her child's life and not just some anonymous doner?

Or that she won't adopt? I don't get it either. I know many couples, gay and straight, who have great relationships with their donors or surrogates and have them as an "uncle" or "aunt" to the kids. 

[escapetoreality]

I am new to the Sister Wives circus and as soon as Homeland starts back up it is adios -- but can someone explain how Meri perked up at the comment about sharing living quarters? Did she want that? It seems she has a bond with none of them.

Next question -- while I am grateful for Kody' tolerance of Mariah, what exactly is the tenet of this fundamentalist thing they follow?  I noticed the kids drinking alcohol, I'm just confused -- are they like "cafeteria Catholics" or do they really have the doctrinal latitude to make their own choices on these things? Is polygamy the only non-negotiable?  Confused.        

[leighroda]

I'm sorry but Mariah needs to get the stick out of her ass... I get it, you're mom hurt you, you were brought into an unfair situation that was out of your control, but for Petes sake... move on. I don't even really care if she stays mad in real life, but I'm so over it being a point on the show... especially when she's so pissed off, yet seems to still be willing to accept the handouts related to the show. Meri has a lot of faults, and I don't believe she handled things well, and she does owe Mariah an apology, but what good is an apology when you force it out of someone by acting like a petulant child? Also, Meri has done a lot for Mariah, she fought for her to be able to go to an expensive private university, she got a nicer car than her siblings, I don't think all of those things were necessarily right, or fair to the family, but Meri could have just rolled over when others argued about it, but Meri fought and princess Mariah got her way. 

Im glad Kody actually responded well, of course Robyn was in tears, and needed to have the biggest reaction. I understand Mariah needs time and Meri hounding her to talk may not be the most helpful, but quite frankly Meri is her mother, if she wants to talk she can. It just doesn't sit well with me how Robyn seemed all self righteous and was talking to Meri like a child. Mariah is an adult, if she wants space from Meri she can use her words and say "I am not ready to talk I'll come to you when I am" she doesn't need to use Robyn as her talking head. Btw I like that Robyn was the gay expert since she was the only one who had been around gay people (if anyone watches friends it reminds me of the scene where Ross I think is talking about how phoebe would have been on the street and chandler asks "when you picture phoebe on the streets is she surrounded by the entire cast of Annie?" That's how they are when talking about Robyn's life before being in the family, except it was apparently kinky boots).  Also add me to the list of people wondering why Robyn now sits in on every important conversation, I get maybe Meri wanted her there for this one, but she still doesn't need to be in in every other one. 

Lastly... Dear TLC if you play the theme song, to me it's a different episode, so stop trying to bait people that something big is about to happen by making these 20 hours of episodes... unless you are trying to burn through the footage to cancel the show, if that's the case, carry on.

[MrSmith]

11 minutes ago, leighroda said:

Mariah is an adult, if she wants space from Meri she can use her words and say "I am not ready to talk I'll come to you when I am"

This is exactly what Mariah has said to her mother when it comes to Meri talking to her about the catfish situation. Yet Meri continues to ignore it and force herself on Mariah. Eventually, Mariah may just blow up about it and tell her mother off (assuming Meri continues to try to force conversation). Just like Mariah can't force Meri to be honest, Meri can't force Mariah to have conversations with Meri that Mariah doesn't wish to have. My mom's trying this (again) and (again) it's not working out very well for her...

[Granny58]

1 hour ago, Lm2162 said:

Omg don't get me started...People have these obsessions with images in their mind and we're supposed to cater to them. My husband had a PhD and a law degree when he got married, worked full time teaching college, had published widely and worked in theatre on the side. But because he is in a wheelchair, there was drama over him "not standing at the altar." Even though he was getting married, is now a dad, and is more accomplished than most of the "devastated" family members. Their comments devastated him. Particularly around things like marriage and kids, we have these weird particular cultural things (like walking down the aisle) that *must* happen and people don't understand how their total obsessions with those particular things can hurt others. And we're expected to pity and cater to the people with those obsessions. 

that's awful.  He's there.  That should be enough. 

37 minutes ago, trose said:

Why is everyone assuming Mariah's future children will never know their father? Is it beyond imagination that she may be inseminated by a friend who takes part in her child's life and not just some anonymous doner?

everybody isn't assuming that.  Robyn said it and that is the topic of discussion.  

[Granny58]

1 hour ago, Adiba said:

Yes, studies have shown that there is no discernible disadvantage to having same- sex parents. But in the OP's defense, I don't think that's exactly what was meant. Many people do search for biolgical information or connections in life if they are missing. And if that info is available to them, so much the better. 

thank you.  that's exactly what I am talking about.  

[notnowimbusy]

Putting all of the disgusting things about Meri aside, I did feel incredible empathy for her.   As difficult as it may seem, I don't think Meri, Christine or Janelle, have had much regular interaction with anybody who is gay, or any gay couples.    It seems so foreign to Meri, and I honestly don't think she knew what to do, expect, or how to express herself.    I understand that Robyn was trying to let her know Mariah's life will be rich, fulfilled and be good - just not "traditional".   I got the idea that Meri feels even further estrangement from her daughter - and only child.  Let's face it, the other kids in the family are like nieces and nephews, but this is her only child.    The sadness she is feeling is not just about Mariah, but also about how her life, as a wife has turned out.   The world she thought she knew is crumbling, and she is struggling.   The catfishing thing is basically BS - she thought she had found someone who loved her, was going to take her away from a place where she feels ignored, abandon, and a life with no future.   She had an affair - and that is what Mariah can't forgive.  

I had always assumed that my daughter would have kids.  But she made if very clear that isn't in her plans.   I was disappointed, but it's not my place to  that question that kind of life  decision.   I have family/friends who ask "when is she going to have kids", and when I tell them she isn't - they always say "Oh, she'll change her mind" .  No she isn't.   It is hard for my husband and I when we see our friends, and siblings all having grandchildren, doting on them, playing with them, non-stop talking about them.  We aren't going to have that.    My son is in a long term relationship with a lovely woman, but she too doesn't want children.    So, I "get" some of what Meri was thinking.   When you are raising your kids you expect or hope for certain milestones, and sometimes life changes, but it doesn't mean you aren't a little sad, and sometimes wish it were different.   But life goes on, you adjust, move forward.  

Because Mariah came to her realization while living away, was estranged from Meri,  and this announcement coming on the heels of a big wedding, another in the planning, I think it knocked Meri on her heels.   Again, their religion was not open to this, and without any signs, it probably never occurred to her that her daughter was going to make this announcement.   It will take her time.   Her sadness comes from a sense of another wedge between them.    It did make me sad that Kody couldn't muster the empathy to suggest that he and Meri - as Mariah's parents, sit down and talk.    

Yep, Meri is dysfunctional, a whole lot of crazy, and self-absorbed.   But I think she's also extremely lonely.

[Granny58]

10 minutes ago, notnowimbusy said:

Putting all of the disgusting things about Meri aside, I did feel incredible empathy for her.   As difficult as it may seem, I don't think Meri, Christine or Janelle, have had much regular interaction with anybody who is gay, or any gay couples.    It seems so foreign to Meri, and I honestly don't think she knew what to do, expect, or how to express herself.    I understand that Robyn was trying to let her know Mariah's life will be rich, fulfilled and be good - just not "traditional".   I got the idea that Meri feels even further estrangement from her daughter - and only child.  Let's face it, the other kids in the family are like nieces and nephews, but this is her only child.    The sadness she is feeling is not just about Mariah, but also about how her life, as a wife has turned out.   The world she thought she knew is crumbling, and she is struggling.   The catfishing thing is basically BS - she thought she had found someone who loved her, was going to take her away from a place where she feels ignored, abandon, and a life with no future.   She had an affair - and that is what Mariah can't forgive.  

I had always assumed that my daughter would have kids.  But she made if very clear that isn't in her plans.   I was disappointed, but it's not my place to  that question that kind of life  decision.   I have family/friends who ask "when is she going to have kids", and when I tell them she isn't - they always say "Oh, she'll change her mind" .  No she isn't.   It is hard for my husband and I when we see our friends, and siblings all having grandchildren, doting on them, playing with them, non-stop talking about them.  We aren't going to have that.    My son is in a long term relationship with a lovely woman, but she too doesn't want children.    So, I "get" some of what Meri was thinking.   When you are raising your kids you expect or hope for certain milestones, and sometimes life changes, but it doesn't mean you aren't a little sad, and sometimes wish it were different.   But life goes on, you adjust, move forward.  

I FEEL you so much.  Just sayin'  

[kassa]

I know Mariah is being sulky, but we have seen her tell Meri to back off more than once, and she just keeps accosting her on camera.  Possibly off camera, too, but even more telling (to Mariah) would be if she's NOT accosting her off camera and saving the accosting for ON camera.

She told Meri back when they were sitting in that sad little park in the cold that she needed time, that she loved her, she just didn't want to talk about it.  And Meri pushed and pushed.  In this conversation, too, she said "I'm good where I am" or something, meaning "back off and leave it alone for now, will you?"  And Meri pushed and pushed. 

So yeah, Mariah's still mad about the cheating.  And she's mad at the lying about it.  But I think the principal cause of Mariah's on-camera attitude with Meri is that she just keeps coming at her on camera.  Every time she starts in on it, she is setting Mariah's resentment clock back to zero.  We get it. Meri doesn't want a superficial relationship with her daughter.  But a superficial relationship is what her daughter wants right now.  If she wants to get back to being close to her, respecting that and keeping things light and breezy until Mariah comes to HER is the way to go. For God's sake, ROBYN pointed it out.

It's always been Meri's way or the highway.  And then Mariah left the nest, discovered the highway goes neat places, and Meri's way is no longer her default.  That happens sometimes.  Screaming "come back here" doesn't work with dogs or humans.

[Coffeegirl]

Quote

 

I agree with you notnowimbusy, although Meri bugs me and appears to play dumb most of the time, I can't help but feel sorry for her, she is on the outs in that family.

[whydoievencare]

3 hours ago, MV713 said:

Between being distracted the entire show by everyone's bad eyebrows - Meri, Robyn and Janelle, including the kids now too! and hearing "fill" "fillings" "dill and "dillings", I couldn't pay attention to anything.

Yes!!  They are all such lazy enunciators - it's as if they all have a mouthful of marbles!!

[DakotaJustice]

54 minutes ago, leighroda said:

 Btw I like that Robyn was the gay expert since she was the only one who had been around gay people (if anyone watches friends it reminds me of the scene where Ross I think is talking about how phoebe would have been on the street and chandler asks "when you picture phoebe on the streets is she surrounded by the entire cast of Annie?" That's how they are when talking about Robyn's life before being in the family, except it was apparently kinky boots).  Also add me to the list of people wondering why Robyn now sits in on every important conversation, I get maybe Meri wanted her there for this one, but she still doesn't need to be in in every other one. 

In Season 1 I believe- when they were still in the Lehi house - the original SWs had a dinner party and invited some friends over, including as Janelle pointed out, a gay couple. But I guess we're all supposed to forget that...

I don't watch the show anymore, but I have seen Meri do her live sales on her LLR group and she can be quite unpleasant and snippy, plus the makeup especially the eyeshadow is excessive to say the least.

[Coffeegirl]

Bad eyebrows and straw for hair, they need to lay off, and whatever the heck Janelle was wearing on the fishing trip, spandex is not her friend.

[purpleflowers]

For a second I sympathized with Mariah on the deck at the mountain resort because it must be awkward to have your mother discuss personal things with you on film; but then I remembered Mariah agreed to have the cameras on her and yet has such a sour attitude! I am thrilled for her that she can finally be herself and find true peace but her attitude is reprehensible and she still has an air of entitlement IMO. She could be doing better things with her time? Then don't agree to be filmed! Yes Meri messed up big time and the situation will not get fully resolved until Meri comes clean about what really happened with the CF (it bugs the crap out of me too that she keeps lying about the nature of it) but that conversation was painful to watch not just because of Meri's cringeworthy communication but because Mariah was behaving as if she was the parent and Meri was the child or something. I agree with a previous poster who said Meri should not grovel and beg. It was obvious Meri wasn't saying the right things in this coming out situation, but her awkwardness was probably compounded by not being able to even talk to her daughter with even slight openness on Mariah's part. I don't think Meri had to apologize for her reaction to the coming out; Mariah didn't seem bothered by it and that was just Meri's honest and calm initial reaction. She was just digging a hole for herself but I think she was desperate for some response. I know Meri has to apologize and come clean but Mariah should also think that she has probably been unpleasant to be around all these years due to not being true to herself and everyone around her understands. Can she maybe have a little sympathy considering Meri has also had to force herself into a lifestyle that she's not meant for? Granted Meri now should take the initiative to change her own life and not blame the rest of the world. Argh. It's hard to take anyone's side in this. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Last night, and most other nights too, Meri seems to have this incredible ability to say more words than anyone else, but say absolutely nothing of substance.  All we ever get is how, she's in progress, she's working towards it, she's not there yet, that it's not very clear to her, that she's trying to wrap her brain around it, that she's unsure of what direction it will go, that she's on this journey and will have to see where it takes her, that she's working on those feelings, needs to figure it out, needs to give it more time, needs to give it more thought, needs to keep communicating, needs to discuss more with therapist, needs to get adjusted, needs to wait and see,  ..........................................etc.  

And she's very confused about Mariah's feelings.  She wants Mariah to tell her what she's thinking.  Why?  I've never met Mariah, but, from just watching the show, it's quite clear how she feels.  She is resentful of her mother's actions during and after the catfish incident. She thinks her mother has lied and not told the truth about her involvement.  She is stewing in this resentment and it's likely it will continue, until her mom comes clean about it. AND she wants her mom to leave her alone and stop bringing up, as she's tired of the same old conversation, that she's likely had with Meri over and over.  I mean once you beat the horse to death, leave it alone! (Figuratively speaking of course.)    I mean, I'm no therapist, but, it seems to me that Meri's desire to know what Mariah thinks could easily be solved. 

[Kohola3]

Quote

Next question -- while I am grateful for Kody' tolerance of Mariah, what exactly is the tenet of this fundamentalist thing they follow?  I noticed the kids drinking alcohol, I'm just confused -- are they like "cafeteria Catholics" or do they really have the doctrinal latitude to make their own choices on these things? Is polygamy the only non-negotiable?  Confused.    

They follow the tenets of the Church of the Almighty TLC Dollar.  They change rules to fit the situation or the Issue of the Week.  It's all totally BS made up crap to allow Kadouche to bang as many woman as he can lure into this quagmire and call it a religion.

[SunnyBeBe]

Logan has commented a couple of times before about how alcohol is not really condoned in their faith, but, he drinks beer anyway.  I think that isn't uncommon.  Even the ladies, like Meri have drank wine on the show.  It's frowned upon, but, not something that will totally get you kicked out. 

Oh, the Mormons that I know, don't drink caffeine either, nor smoke, swear or reveal their body. They do dance, listen to secular music and attend public schools. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[RedheadZombie]

I can be tough on Janelle, but I think this episode was the best she's ever appeared.   She lightened the mood after Mariah's announcement, about joking she thought Mariah was going to announce she had cancer.  Meaning -  That's all?  Thank God because I thought something was wrong.  She called her "honey", which she calls her own bio kids.

Then Janelle got angry on Mykelti's behalf, which was more about girl power than anything else, but still.  She also expressed concern for poor Mykelti running into the glass.

And then she was helpful with Truely, enthusiastically responding to her catching a fish, and (I believe) called her "honey".

I've never seen Janelle this affectionate with kids other than her own, and I was very happy to see it.  I will try not to criticize her for a while. 

She also sacrificed her little igloo thing for her daughter.  But gross Maddie.  You really have to announce to the whole family that you like to bang loudly, and you must do so even when surrounded by a hundred family members.  Please don't let Maddie continue to be such a special snowflake.  What am I saying?  She's already gotten knocked up within seconds of marriage.  So she will always get the softest bed and nicest accommodations.  I'm sure they'll pop a tent for second rate Mykelti and Tony.   Maybe they can dig up Janelle's unheated teepee, and they can live out in the yard during a Wyoming winter.

[Marigold]

5 minutes ago, DakotaJustice said:

In Season 1 I believe- when they were still in the Lehi house - the original SWs had a dinner party and invited some friends over, including as Janelle pointed out, a gay couple. But I guess we're all supposed to forget that...

 

I was just going to post the same thing.  They did have a gay couple over for dinner!

Seemed Robyn and Janelle were more open and accepting...they have also been out in the world more with work.  Robyn seemed to have had a rough time after her marriage split and must've been forced to interact with people other than Polygamist Mormons. Janelle has worked for many years and seems to have a very "live and let live" spirit about her. 

Christine is not very exposed to other cultures/lifestyles etc so she stayed a bit more quiet. I think she needed some time to think it through, however, I think she did well.

Meri? I don't understand her. Is she that cut off from society? Stupid? Ignorant?  

Mariah was very bratty but after seeing how awful Meri is, I'm gonna give Mariah a pass. 

I do understand that meri was shocked and needed time to "process" but her process was not so good and it didn't seem to lead to anything positive.  Isn't a "process" supposed to end up with closure? Usually the goal is to handle your new info, deal with it and come out a better person? 

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Meri found a way to make this all about herself. If her daughter is a brat, she definitely learned from the best. Meri is somehow an expert at making every situation about her emotions. 

I remember how, back in the day, many of us (myself included) thought that Mariah and Meri were basically the same person in terms of bratty, entitled, whiny attitude.  Now, Mariah is doing some serious growing and maturing, and Meri seems to be going backwards.  I used to say how Logan turned out to be a responsible young man despite having Kody as his dad.  It seems that Mariah is doing the same thing, despite having Meri for a mom.

 

1 hour ago, trose said:

Seems to me the real reason Meri was so upset was because she wanted a relationship with a SON-in law like CALEB or TONY --not a (gasp) lesbian female. I guess she has her share of women in her life and wants another adult male all to herself. She was recently catfished by a "man" and her sister wife son-in-laws are rarely around and will most likely never have a close relationship with her). And we all know how warm and fuzzy her marriage to Kody is.... 

++++++1 to that bolded line!  I think Meri wanted a hunky son-in-law to crush on, and it bothers her greatly that she won't have that...meanwhile, her arch-nemesis JANELLE, of all people, gets Crush-Worthy Caleb as her son-in-law.  It's not fair!

 

1 hour ago, escapetoreality said:

Next question -- while I am grateful for Kody' tolerance of Mariah, what exactly is the tenet of this fundamentalist thing they follow?  I noticed the kids drinking alcohol, I'm just confused -- are they like "cafeteria Catholics" or do they really have the doctrinal latitude to make their own choices on these things? Is polygamy the only non-negotiable?  Confused.        

Confused?  Pull up a chair with the rest of us.

I remember on the Hawaii trip, Kody pouted and stomped on his Legos when it was discovered that they'd be eating pork at a buffet.  He threw a tantrum that would put a two-year old to shame, and I remember thinking - huh?  Since when don't they eat pork?  How long has this show been on, and we've never been told that?  And yet, the majority of the kids had no issues with it.  Same with drinking...can it be a tenet of their faith when Meri is all, "hey, when in Rome!" during her Atlanta wine-tasting trip.  Their tenets are dependent on which way the wind is blowing Kody's gnarly locks.

As for Logan and his girlfriend, I love that they both enjoy a fine whiskey or beer.

[ReadMeLattice]

I haven't had time to watch the whole thing yet. Can someone tell me what Maddie said? 

[notnowimbusy]

Mariah is pretty darn naive if she thinks she can drop a bombshell on the family, and not expect them to ask questions, take the time adjust and just let it sink in.   If you want them to accept your decision, help them understand, answer questions.  You came out to be open, so be open.  Robyn definitely knew, but Janelle's reaction surprised me.  I guess she was just happy Mariah wasn't dying of cancer.  Christine's face was priceless.  You know she was expecting a wedding announcement.      I get that Meri can be selfish and one-sided, but if this did come out of the blue, I think I'd be wanting to have a conversation with my daughter.

  Interesting that Mariah got the idea that being gay was a sin, made you a horrible person, seems to have come from "their" church - the one they belonged to in Utah, the one they sent their kids to, to be around other kids of the same faith.   During the time in Utah, they seemed to adhere to some sort of church beliefs, but since the move it has become "whatever".   They can't afford to alienate their "viewership" by actually standing up for something they used to hold as serious beliefs.  Robyn says being gay is ok - well then Kody has to go along with it.  But keep in mind kissing while courting just transfers unwanted hormones!     When they left, and spent that time in separate homes, away from each other, things took a big turn.  

This whole thing is no longer about polygamy, but more like a guy who is married, and has a good relationship with his ex-wives (except for Meri).  

[laurakaye]

I think the very best part of this episode was hearing Logan talk about how Mariah confided in him first out of all her brothers and sisters.  Testament again to the part Logan played in the lives of his siblings.

[Coffeegirl]

I think reason Janelle was so happy in last nights episode is because she knows Meri is getting her ass kicked, it's obvious she can't stand her, and even though they mentioned on one of their couch sessions that they don't get involved in the other couple's marriage that is BS, Robyn brought up how her and Kody have been discussing his and Meri's relationship, and how the problems have a rippling effect in all their marriages.

And I near gagged when Robyn mentioned baby juice, when they were discussing how Mariah would still be able to get pregnant.

[leighroda]

1 hour ago, MrSmith said:

This is exactly what Mariah has said to her mother when it comes to Meri talking to her about the catfish situation. Yet Meri continues to ignore it and force herself on Mariah. Eventually, Mariah may just blow up about it and tell her mother off (assuming Meri continues to try to force conversation). Just like Mariah can't force Meri to be honest, Meri can't force Mariah to have conversations with Meri that Mariah doesn't wish to have. My mom's trying this (again) and (again) it's not working out very well for her...

I was referring to the conversation where Robyn was telling Meri not to talk to her about her feelings around being gay, not the catfish conversation.  But that being said if Mariah is going to continue pouting about the catfish situation, but refuse to talk to her mom about said catfish situation... that's on Mariah. None of us know what has been said, what on gods green earth could Meri still possibly have to say about the situation etc.  I know Mariah wants an apology that it doesn't seem like Meri is going to give, but how does she expect to ever get to that point if she continually shuts Meri down. 

[RedheadZombie]

I felt for Christine during the cooking segment.  She was trying so hard to be supportive.  She even gently redirected Tony when he had a pan on the cook top, with all four burners blasting full force.  Why were all four burners on?  It was sort of comical.

I go back and forth with Robyn.  I truly believe she's blindly ambitious, and cunningly seized the first wife position.  And I don't like it.  But in their lifestyle, that's a woman asserting herself in a man's world.  The problem is, she's doing it on the backs of other women.  Anyway, she does seem to be the "Kody whisperer", and I love that she has no bones about busting his chops.  She humbles him in an enjoyable way, and I especially love when the other wives laugh along in her mockery - in front of Kody.

I think she gave very solid advice to Meri.  But I can't help but suspect she's curated an extra special relationship with Mariah in order to take 100% of Meri's power away.  Meri no longer has a child in this family.  And as sensible as Robyn's advice was, I'm curious what her reaction would be if one of the other wives gave Robyn some advice about drama-queen, has to be closest to the one getting the attention, has to hug everyone first and scream and cry the loudest, Aurora.  I need that scene.

[hnygrl]

I am 100% aware that Meri's Misery (capital M) is of her own making and choosing.

But dammit.

NO ONE should be that ALONE. In a plural marriage, with three "Sister" wives and a billion kids?

She's all alone in the universe. She's got No One. No parents, no siblings, no kids, no husband (he divorced her for the newest model and she's just supposed to automatically be okay with it). She's screwed up. Big time. We all do. And we all pay the price for our big time screw ups. We all do. She's paying the price for her nasty, stinking, I'm the real wifey and you're all concubines attitude. But still.

Nobody deserves to be that alone in the universe.

Every time she's on screen my heart just weeps for her. She looks so lost, forlorn, HOPELESS even. Just...geeze...empty. My heart breaks for her. Seriously. Nobody "deserves" to be that alone in the universe.

I get it. I do. But.

What ever happened to unconditional love and forgiveness? Isn't that what this plural marriage ideal is supposed to be about? I don't know...I get that Mariah's not there yet and probably will never be there at this rate. Maybe when she's in her 30's and has a kid of her own she may come to the point where she can tolerate her mom again, but not yet (lesbians have kids every day). So that I get.

But still. She's got nobody. Everybody  in her world has turned their backs on her. Everybody. I couldn't take that.

Edited January 9, 2017 by hnygrl

[Marigold]

So the truth came out.   Mariah was only interested in polygamy to cover up her deep feelings? Meri was so proud that she produced the only teen to want to live polygamy!!!! Well, that took a sudden turn for Meri, didn't it?

Can someone explain the triangle tat on Mariah's wrist? In the 90's the triangle was a symbol of LGBT.  Is that still true? And did the tat have some little design on the top?  What was that? 

(OK, my husband and I got stuck on that and we need help!!!)

Edited January 9, 2017 by Marigold

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, MV713 said:

Between being distracted the entire show by everyone's bad eyebrows - Meri, Robyn and Janelle, including the kids now too! and hearing "fill" "fillings" "dill and "dillings", I couldn't pay attention to anything.

I do find it ironic that Mariah is now sporting the very eyebrows she mocked and humiliated her mother over. 

3 hours ago, rayndon said:

I so agree with you!  LOL  And I have to add, "somethink", "goink", "believink" and all their words that end in "G" to the list of distractions.  OMG, I kept saying outloud: weren't these people ever taught the sounds of letters of the alphabet?  It's enough to drive this viewer up the wall.  LOL  

I'm not commenting specifically to the above two posters, but to these comments in general.  There's so much to mock this family over, why the continuous shots at their regional accent?  Do people truly not realize that entire swaths of people speak the exact same way?  Southerners speak a certain way, New Jersey/New York, Boston, Cali, etc.  Weren't these people taught the sounds of letter of the alphabet?  Now I happen to believe that, as a Midwesterner, I have no accent and speak perfectly;-)  But I'm sure people from other regions think I'm ignorant, too.

3 hours ago, MrSmith said:

My wife and I are not sure this is true. My wife and I think the prosecutor and the State of Utah were positively salivating over the opportunity to crucify this family and make an example of them. They obviously haven't cared enough to do anything about what's going on at Short Creek, but the Browns provided them the perfect opportunity to say "See? We are doing something about those wicked, bad, naughty, evil polygamists!" After all, if Utah actually cared about this, there's a whole community right on their southern border where they knew polygamists were "hiding in plain sight" the whole time. They could have done something about polygamy (and a truly evilly-practiced form of it at that!) any time they wanted to. It was only when the Browns went public and made the state and the LDS church look bad nationally that they decided they had to do something about it. Even the situation at Short Creek is the same in that regard: It's only once national attention began to focus on them that the State (really, the LDS church, since they're in control of government there from the state level to the local level) started to do anything about them. Provided the Browns weren't manipulating any of the social support systems (food stamps, etc), the state and the LDS church should have simply continued ignoring them. Nothing good could have come from jailing the Brown family primaries or inflicting any punishments or penalties upon the family.

I agree.  I never understood why people simply believed Lehi when they denied it.   They certainly didn't want to go public that they were responsible for that spectacle, people are already critical that a religion controls the government.  The only reason polygamy was disavowed was to get statehood.   Utah's fine feeling superior to the polygamists, and pretending they don't see them.  But make it public, and they want to make a show of it.  I truly believed the Brown's fear.  Janelle, who rarely shows emotion, was full out panicking and actually helping to throw things in a moving truck, versus being overwhelmed and passively observing.  I don't think they did it for ratings, because the show went downhill when they all separated.  The draw for many was watching them in one giant house, and hearing how they worked together as a unit (Christine caring for the kids, the other adults working, etc).