S08.E06: A Shocking Revelation

[ReadMeLattice]

1 hour ago, Granny58 said:

this is a false equivalence.  All crappy parents should straighten up.  The topic was that many people eventually want to find their bio-roots...and who could blame them?

actually, that would be great. 

No, the topic was having a dad or not having a dad, and the *gender* of the parents. Not a false equivalence at all. Stated in a wildly homophobic way (that's not the "solution to a two-woman marriage"). Didn't know it needed a "solution." 

As for bio parents...I directly addressed that by saying many straight folks do the same thing. Maybe more. And many people want something different from their parents. Maybe they wish their parents weren't Mormon, weren't disabled, weren't an interracial couple, weren't divorced, weren't two guys or two girls, weren't young, weren't old, weren't uneducated, weren't religious, weren't drunk when they conceived by accident, weren't poor, weren't single parents.  Are people owed that? And if so, we'll have to deal with about 80% of kids who want their parents to be different. Why does what they "want" suddenly only matter when it's a gay couple, when every bit of research shows it actually doesn't bother kids very much, while a lot of those other things do? 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Lm2162

[Adeejay]

23 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Let's see how he'd react if one of his sons came out vs just a daughter from the wife he wants rid of anyway.

My thoughts exactly.  I don't believe Kody would react in the same manner, if Logan or Hunter were to come out as gay.  I thought it interesting that when Mariah made her announcement, everyone but her biological parents rushed to embrace her.

 I just can't get over how smoothly Robyn climbed over the backs of those three spineless women to become Queen Bee, Boss Lady and Head Bitch in Charge.  I tip my hat to her.  Bravo! 

[ragingpixie]

JFC, Meri. This is your only child. Find a way to communicate effectively without chewing on your thumbnail and giggling nervously.

It's not like you have to sit on a couch with Janelle or something.

[Starsandbucks]

I think I'm the only person here who doesn't dislike Robyn and really hasn't throughout the entirety of the series! Aspyn chose to move into Robyn's house when she moved back to Las Vegas, Mariah credits her for making it easier to come out and had a separate private chat with her after the family announcement and even Meri includes her as a mediator in her marriage talks. I guess it's a low bar to say that the family seems to really like her but I've never seen her as a terrible and conniving individual. I really appreciated that she basically told Meri that it's not Mariah's responsibility to help her understand. I personally thought it was deplorable for Meri to tell Mariah that she'd always had expectations of a son-in-law and grandchildren. Keep those thoughts to yourself. Regardless of the fact that as far as we all know Mariah can have children should she choose to, it's hurtful and unnecessary to project your unfulfilled expectations onto your children. Gay or not, Mariah was NEVER required to give Meri any of those things. 

[LotusFlower]

2 hours ago, SnarkyMcSnarkerson said:

I suspect there would be a large audience and plenty of ad-buyers for that show - but this family only wants to be shown enjoying polygamy (nevermind that their misery is often on display on this show anyway!), so it will never happen :(

I disagree.  I think TLC is just as complicit in this fakery.  All their shows (as is probably with all networks) are about an unusual or compelling family or situation, told in a whitewashed way, and stripped of anything that might appear as offensive or controversial.  Especially in this day and age of social media, one whiff of controversy puts a show on thin ice.  Both the Browns and the producers are in cahoots to produce a show that hides a lot of truths.  Case in point - raise your hand if you think Meri came up with the idea of divorcing Kody so he could marry Robyn and adopt her kids.  Anyone?  Second case in point - the end-of-season Tell Alls.  They get asked one softball question after another.  Gotta keep it light!

[Madding crowd]

10 hours ago, Marigold said:

She has no redeeming qualities at all.

I think all human beings have redeeming qualities, except in the case of someone who murders or tortures another human being. Why does she have no redeeming qualities? Because she made a mistake? Everyone makes mistake. Even Miss perfect Robyn. Meri did not sleep with another men, did not kill anyone, rob anyone. I also think her reaction to Mariah was appropriate for their way of thinking. She is sorting things out. She never said she doesn't love Mariah or doesn't approve of her. She is just figuring things out. I also don'f find her to be stupid. Christine and Robyn maybe, Janelle and Meri no. I really don't know how much people are expecting Meri to "pay" for sexting with a pretend person. She didn't sleep with anyone and even if she did, she deserves forgiveness. I also hated that Robyn and Kody had to tell her how she should feel. She loves her daughter and that is all that matters; she doesn't need instruction from a woman who tells her own children their father 'stole her purity'. and then tries to replace him in their memory. I'm tired of hearing she should pay because of what she might have done. How can we judge people by what they might do but didn't do. That's a dangerous slope. That means I could be mad at my husband because if a beautiful woman approached him, he might run off with her.  He didn't and wouldn't, but he could have. I think Meri is too good for this bunch and should go off on her own. 

[zenme]

I think people continue to dislike Meri because of the continual lies, and not because of the catfish thing. Personally, I can understand Meri feeling lonely, finding someone who she thinks she connects with, and feeling torn about that--given her particular situation.  I get it. Warm hugs to her, but I just cannot stand a liar, and that's what she continues to do. For me, it's the continued lying, not the catfish thing.

[Sista Snarky]

IMO...

When it comes to the constant question  about "when is Mariah going to forgive Meri about having an emotional affair" business.

That's not it. Mariah lost trust & faith in her mother. Meri lied to Mariah...shared things about Mariah with the Catfish & if Mariah didn't have the good sense to opt-out of that ridiculous trip to Disneyland...she would have been along for that ride.

I can't even fathom how much of a desperate dumbass a woman would have to be to believe that some millionaire she never met in person has this creepy slob of a  friend (who also is supposed to be loaded) in need of a  ride to a day trip from LV to Disney... 

& the "I wish you could appreciate my relationship" nonsense. I would have said "please stop with that crazy bullshit" right there. 

Maybe it's time to go for a mental health screening. Those constant tears interrupted by sarcastic laughter may be a sign of being batshit crazy.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[Isumpin]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

 a woman who tells her own children their father 'stole her purity'. and then tries to replace him in their memory. 

HUH? I must have missed that.   I thought they were married.  Totally confused.  Besides You cant steal what is given away. No way she didn't Come on really. 

[Snarklepuss]

As much as Meri has brought a lot of her problems on herself, I really felt for her in this episode.  She's already experienced a lot of loss and is not dealing well with it, now this.  First she can't produce more children with Kody, then things go south with him, then she falls for a con, then things go south with her daughter and now she finds out that whatever redemption she may have had with her daughter is going to be further strained and difficult to achieve in light of her having come out as gay when Mariah is being a brat and unwilling to let her mother in even an inch.  She is over the top, what a way to treat your mother.  Mariah is more of a narcissist right now than Meri ever was.  It's almost too much to watch.  No matter what Meri's done I definitely think things and people have been worse to her in return.  She has paid 5 times over for her transgressions, IMO.  And she seems genuine about wanting to make things right, but it looks like her world isn't letting her at this point.

It's no wonder she is so disempowered by now that she lets her daughter treat her like an unworthy subordinate.  I agree TOTALLY with @SuzyLee that she gives her WAY too much power and would have written that post almost word for word if she didn't do it first.  Meri is giving everyone in that family way too much power at this point.  She should really just leave; this situation has become toxic for her and it's only going to continue to grind her further into the mud unless she gets back some self respect and stops letting her daughter and her husband walk all over her.  Who the F#@$ does Mariah think she is?  She has NO CLUE what it's REALLY like to be "betrayed" or have her trust broken.  She has NO CLUE what a mother's love is.  What a totally self centered grudge holding little snowflake she is.  I understood her in the beginning but this has just gone on way too long.

[wifey81]

I don't buy for a second that Meri was confused about how Mariah would become a parent - I think her repeated nonsense claiming it was a mystery was her passive-aggressive way of communicating that she does not approve of same-sex couples becoming parents.

She was veiling her disapproval ever so slightly because of the cameras.

I have a feeling she saves her conversations with Mariah for the cameras too, which understandably drives Mariah insane. It boxes Mariah into having the talk, for the sake of the cameras, but she can't hide how little she wants to participate.

Clearly Mariah has had a big awakening during her time away at college. She has insights now into her sexuality but also her mother. Once you recognize that level of narcissism it is impossible to un-see it.

Mariah does act like a brat a fair bit but I think her current resistance to see her mother's perspective is a protective mechanism - there is no room for anyone else to have feelings outside of Meri, you have to wall her out to have a life. I don't like Kody at all, but even I can see that a relationship with Meri must have been untenable. It's Meri's world, all the time.

Edited January 10, 2017 by wifey81

[bluewave]

On 1/8/2017 at 8:54 PM, Armchair Critic said:

I still think Mariah is a brat

I agree. It's enough already. I think she is enjoying watching Meri squirm and be upset. I'm no Meri fan but watching this made me feel as if Mariah is enjoying every moment of this! You admit you are gay. OK. Now grow up a little more and talk to your mother about the catfish issue. Until then you just look like a freaking brat. I'm over her.

[Granny58]

10 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

No, the topic was having a dad or not having a dad, and the *gender* of the parents. Not a false equivalence at all. Stated in a wildly homophobic way (that's not the "solution to a two-woman marriage"). Didn't know it needed a "solution." 

As for bio parents...I directly addressed that by saying many straight folks do the same thing. Maybe more. And many people want something different from their parents. Maybe they wish their parents weren't Mormon, weren't disabled, weren't an interracial couple, weren't divorced, weren't two guys or two girls, weren't young, weren't old, weren't uneducated, weren't religious, weren't drunk when they conceived by accident, weren't poor, weren't single parents.  Are people owed that? And if so, we'll have to deal with about 80% of kids who want their parents to be different. Why does what they "want" suddenly only matter when it's a gay couple, when every bit of research shows it actually doesn't bother kids very much, while a lot of those other things do? 

It's not that they may want their parents to be different.  They know who those parents are.  They may simply want to find their biological roots.  

[Granny58]

5 hours ago, Isumpin said:

HUH? I must have missed that.   I thought they were married.  Totally confused.  Besides You cant steal what is given away. No way she didn't Come on really. 

Oh yes, she did!  She gave a "sermon" in house to the Brown clan kids and described how her purity was stolen from her.  She had a cookie cutter or something (heart shaped I believe) and she threw it down on the ground, tearing up, pouty faced.  Then she had the stupid picture made with Kody inserted into it, "like they all shoulda been" from the beginning.   She was rewriting her history.  

[CofCinci]

Over in the Mariah thread @Adiba had a great question...  

How would Mariah The Pious reacted to sibling coming out?  Holy shit. She would be awful. 

[Kohola3]

43 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

How would Mariah The Pious reacted to sibling coming out?  Holy shit. She would be awful. 

She would have bludgeoned the sibling with the Book of Mormon.

[Snarklepuss]

5 hours ago, bluewave said:

I agree. It's enough already. I think she is enjoying watching Meri squirm and be upset. I'm no Meri fan but watching this made me feel as if Mariah is enjoying every moment of this! You admit you are gay. OK. Now grow up a little more and talk to your mother about the catfish issue. Until then you just look like a freaking brat. I'm over her.

What really gets me about Mariah is that she fully expects and acts entitled to her FUNDAMENTALIST religious family's unconditional acceptance of her religious orientation, but she has ZERO compassion for her mother's needs and issues within that ridiculously restricting "relationship" of hers with Kody.  I get it that Meri put her daughter in an unethical/uncomfortable position but to be fair, both gayness and infidelity (as they would define it) are both considered "against God" by most people in the religion they come from.  Mariah gets all self righteous and "holier than thou" with her mother about the catfish affair on the grounds of morality and betrayal, yet gets pissy when Meri even acts a little confused and needs time to process her gayness but is by no means unaccepting of her.  Meanwhile Meri is doing nothing but blaming herself (I should know my daughter better, I don't want to make her feel unaccepted) while Mariah is doing nothing but blaming Meri and could give a crap about how she feels.  Considering the glass house she inhabits coming from their culture, I think Mariah should be thanking her mother for being in a polyg family that's far from typical and that accepts her orientation unconditionally and openly.  Mariah has NO CLUE how HORRIBLE her life would be if she were born into another family.  I know people in my own life who were completely disowned by their families for coming out as homosexual to them over 30 years ago, whose lives were DESTROYED by it.  I understand how Meri may have helped to create this monster and is now reaping what she's sown but Mariah is way over the top into being self serving and blind to the reality of her own situation.  She should be thanking her lucky stars and her mother at this point.  What a cruel, immature brat she is.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[bichonblitz]

11 hours ago, Adeejay said:

I just can't get over how smoothly Robyn climbed over the backs of those three spineless women to become Queen Bee, Boss Lady and Head Bitch in Charge.  I tip my hat to her.  Bravo! 

She is a master manipulator, isn't she?

 

10 hours ago, ragingpixie said:

JFC, Meri. This is your only child. Find a way to communicate effectively without chewing on your thumbnail and giggling nervously.

That giggling was driving me nuts. It's as if Meri was the child and Mariah was the adult. Weird. I still say that there is something underlying that happened with the whole catfish thing that we don't know about which Mariah was subjected to for Mariah to be so stubborn and unforgiving. Maybe that "something" is forcing her to keep it from Kody because Meri never really told the truth, and Mariah is fully aware that her mother is still lying. It's the only reasonable excuse I can up with for Mariah to be such a relentless cold bitch to her mother...and maybe she told Meri off camera that until she comes completely clean with her dad, they have no relationship. Ok, this is all in my head but it's very plausible. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by bichonblitz

[Normades]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

How would Mariah The Pious reacted to sibling coming out?  Holy shit. She would be awful. 

Well, to be fair, Mariah was brought up in a religion that vilifies gay people.  She was taught for her entire life that it was a horrible and selfish thing to be gay.  Many people in that situation do become homophobic because of the fear of their own feelings.  I think we saw that with Mariah being the one toeing the family line with wanting to live polygamy when most of her siblings did not seek it.  I think a good question is how would the Browns have dealt with Mariah's coming out had they not been on television?  I think it would have been very different.  They also may have different feelings behind closed doors.  I can't fault Mariah for the way she has acted out against her mother's lies.  As someone said upthread life with Meri is "all Meri all the time."  It must have been exhausting and you can see just getting away has helped Mariah tremendously. 

[Snarklepuss]

6 minutes ago, Normades said:

  I can't fault Mariah for the way she has acted out against her mother's lies.  As someone said upthread life with Meri is "all Meri all the time."  It must have been exhausting and you can see just getting away has helped Mariah tremendously. 

If Mariah wants to get all self righteous about her mother's lies she shouldn't ignore the blatant lies pushed by the rest of her family either, especially Kody.  How could she miss how they have lied and misrepresented themselves on TV and continue to spin things to make them look much better than they really are?  I don't see how one lie is ultimately any better than any other here.

[TurtlePower]

9 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I think all human beings have redeeming qualities, except in the case of someone who murders or tortures another human being. Why does she have no redeeming qualities? Because she made a mistake? Everyone makes mistake. Even Miss perfect Robyn. Meri did not sleep with another men, did not kill anyone, rob anyone. I also think her reaction to Mariah was appropriate for their way of thinking. She is sorting things out. She never said she doesn't love Mariah or doesn't approve of her. She is just figuring things out. I also don'f find her to be stupid. Christine and Robyn maybe, Janelle and Meri no. I really don't know how much people are expecting Meri to "pay" for sexting with a pretend person. She didn't sleep with anyone and even if she did, she deserves forgiveness. I also hated that Robyn and Kody had to tell her how she should feel. She loves her daughter and that is all that matters; she doesn't need instruction from a woman who tells her own children their father 'stole her purity'. and then tries to replace him in their memory. I'm tired of hearing she should pay because of what she might have done. How can we judge people by what they might do but didn't do. That's a dangerous slope. That means I could be mad at my husband because if a beautiful woman approached him, he might run off with her.  He didn't and wouldn't, but he could have. I think Meri is too good for this bunch and should go off on her own. 

This. How much longer is she gonna be punished for this? I've arrested people for way worse things whose punishments were shorter than what Meri is currently dealing with. It's been what, a year by episode timeline?

Yes, she did wrong. Yes, it bugs me she doesn't seem to have issued a genuine apology and appears to be hiding some emotions. But maybe she'll be more likely to open up if she's not confronted with so much anger. I also agree with an earlier comment about Meri having something in her childhood making her react the way she often does and that she is not truly happy. 

[ReadMeLattice]

2 hours ago, Granny58 said:

It's not that they may want their parents to be different.  They know who those parents are.  They may simply want to find their biological roots.  

Sure. Any kid "might" who is adopted or is one of the many thousands born each year through surrogates, donor eggs and donor sperm to straight couples or gay couples. I guess we could quibble about why that matters (personally I don't see why it does any more than anything else they might want or are missing), but then we'd also have to judge people with infertility treatments, single people who choose to have kids knowing they will continue to be single, and the adoption agencies that don't allow gay people to adopt. "They know who those parents are" is not true for millions of kids of straight couples for various reasons. I'm not ready to think every single one of those straight couples shouldn't have had kids either. 

I just think that's 1) way early to be discussing in terms of Mariah and 2) an enormous moral issue that really only seems to come up and be concerning when gays are in the picture, even though in my experience gay couples are the ones, more than straight, who are likeliest to be close to their donors (many straight couples who use them hide that fact). 

It's also ludicrous that Meri pretended not to know when we all watched her go to a fertility specialist. She knows about IVF but not sperm banks? Sperm banks and donor eggs are part and parcel of the conversation once you get to the point of needing IVF. Passive aggressive to the max.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Lm2162

[laurakaye]

14 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Meri isn't missing the big picture. Her picture extends beyond Mariah bringing someone home. Meri is worried about her daughter's eternity.  The biggest of big pictures -- View extends from the home and into the planets.  Meri believes fully in her faith. She imagines Mariah locked away into a dark void while everyone that they love dances in the light on Kody's planet. She has existential dread for her daughter. 

I guess my question is, why aren't the other adults worried?  And if they're not, shouldn't that be a huge, red-flag wake-up call for Meri?  If she is indeed living polygamy based on their religious beliefs, and no one else is concerned about Mariah's eternity, Meri should certainly question that.

 

3 hours ago, Granny58 said:

Oh yes, she did!  She gave a "sermon" in house to the Brown clan kids and described how her purity was stolen from her.  She had a cookie cutter or something (heart shaped I believe) and she threw it down on the ground, tearing up, pouty faced.  Then she had the stupid picture made with Kody inserted into it, "like they all shoulda been" from the beginning.   She was rewriting her history.  

Lest we forget, the sermon was also in front of the kids...several who were too young to know what she was talking about, but some - Hunter, Logan, Aspyn, etc. - who were of an age where Robyn's "purrrity" chat would've been incredibly uncomfortable and embarrassing, especially since Robyn, with great ceremony, handed her cookie to Kody.  Awkward and inappropriate do not even begin to cover it.

 

1 hour ago, Runnergirl said:

This. How much longer is she gonna be punished for this? I've arrested people for way worse things whose punishments were shorter than what Meri is currently dealing with. It's been what, a year by episode timeline?

Yes, she did wrong. Yes, it bugs me she doesn't seem to have issued a genuine apology and appears to be hiding some emotions. But maybe she'll be more likely to open up if she's not confronted with so much anger. I also agree with an earlier comment about Meri having something in her childhood making her react the way she often does and that she is not truly happy. 

I keep circling back to thinking that Meri was indeed set to bail (see: Alaska trip - "don't be surprised if you all wake up one day and I'm gone") and Mariah knew it.  After all, Meri would never leave without telling Mariah where she was going.  Or maybe Meri started dropping hints to Mariah...things like, "hey, how would you fill about moving to Chicago?"  Meri, as we've seen, treats Mariah like a friend and confidant - hence, Mariah knowing about the catfish situation, warning Meri about it, Meri even taking Mariah to meet "Sam."  It seems highly likely that Meri would've also had conversations with her daughter about wanting to move to be with "Sam."  If that is the case (speculation on my part, of course), then I would have to side with Mariah, especially since Meri simply will not come clean about the fact that she was thinking about leaving Mariah's father for a person Mariah knew did not exist. 

EDIT: I just thought of this...when Meri was in the car with JO on the way to Disneyland...the trip where Meri supposedly "figured things out," was Mariah also on that particular trip?  If so, that would explain a lot about Mariah's anger.

Edited January 10, 2017 by laurakaye

[Roslyn]

8 hours ago, Isumpin said:

HUH? I must have missed that.   I thought they were married.  Totally confused.  Besides You cant steal what is given away. No way she didn't Come on really. 

Robyns VERY famous "Purity Speech"....cliff notes version...

During their In House Church gathering Robyn got up and told a bizarrely cryptic tale sort of in the third person.  But it was her Cautionary Tale of "Don't just Give Away your Virginity Girls".  Naturally all actual words of sex, virgin, horny etc were all cryptic, using other words.  She held this odd thing in her hand, a heart shaped something that looked like a large locket because the lid opened (it fit in the palm of her hand). She told the story of a girl who didn't "cherish her purity" and "gave her purity to a boy "who begged for it"".  BUT!!  That boy didn't honor her purity (then she throws the heart locket thing on the floor) That boy broke her purity!! And then she picks up the broken purity locket and holds it out to Kody (sitting next to her on a chair throne) and says how if you choose the RIGHT boy to "give your purity to" then he will cherish it, and it will be his and HE is the right person for you.

Yea...that's close enough.  It was a very very skeevey thing to watch on telly, let me tell you.  ALL the kids are sitting there, even the little ones, and worse yet...her three children from her first marriage were sitting there AND it is THEIR father that she is talking about.  That moment when "she gave it up" to the boy who begged for it was nothing more than two people hot for each other...and yes, she conceived her beloved son Dayton from that pre-wedded bliss, yet then talks about it as this giant mistake.  It wasn't too big of a mistake because she then went on to marry and have two more children.  Those children should NEVER have to even think (no matter how hidden and cryptic) that they might have been mistakes as well just because she is now rewriting their history into Kody's history(and that might have been worse than the whole purity thing!)

[Absolom]

Whoever decided this should be episode fodder was right for ratings purposes:  5th on cable for the night, 1.754M viewers, and a .79 rating.

[laurakaye]

Excellent recap, @Roslyn.  I still get skeeved out just thinking about it.  It was awful in too many ways to count.

So yes, Day'un/Aurora/Brianna...not only did your dad take your mom's cookie, the three of you came from that nasty cookie-stealer.  But look at this portrait of you and your New Dad!  Bad Dad Cookie Stealer has been erased like magic!  Now...go pack your bags, you're going to take a two-week trip to visit the Cookie Stealer...BYE!

I'm sure none of Robyn's kids will ever need therapy.

Every time I get a glimpse of that portrait, I crack up at little Dayton's "thumbs-up" pose, and also that Robyn chose to insert a young Kody into the picture, rather than use a picture of the way he actually appeared when they all met.  I know, I know..."together from Day One."  Still, unintentionally hilarious.  And creepy.

Edited January 10, 2017 by laurakaye

[Kohola3]

Quote

During their In House Church gathering Robyn got up and told a bizarrely cryptic tale sort of in the third person.

And wasn't that the last circus sideshow church service that we saw?  No surprise - this was so totally perverted and disgusting.

[mamey2422]

7 hours ago, bluewave said:

I agree. It's enough already. I think she is enjoying watching Meri squirm and be upset. I'm no Meri fan but watching this made me feel as if Mariah is enjoying every moment of this! You admit you are gay. OK. Now grow up a little more and talk to your mother about the catfish issue. Until then you just look like a freaking brat. I'm over her.

I cringed watching the conversation between Meri and Mariah on the deck as I had a falling out with my mother once and am embarrassed to say I acted in a very similar way to Mariah (shutting down attempts to communicate, distancing). I recognize how Mariah is acting like a brat but I also see it as defense mechanism and it's probably the only way she can have any sort of relationship with Meri right now. I sympathize with her. 

10 hours ago, Sista Snarky said:

IMO...

When it comes to the constant question  about "when is Mariah going to forgive Meri about having an emotional affair" business.

That's not it. Mariah lost trust & faith in her mother. Meri lied to Mariah...shared things about Mariah with the Catfish & if Mariah didn't have the good sense to opt-out of that ridiculous trip to Disneyland...she would have been along for that ride.

I can't even fathom how much of a desperate dumbass a woman would have to be to believe that some millionaire she never met in person has this creepy slob of a  friend (who also is supposed to be loaded) in need of a  ride to a day trip from LV to Disney... 

& the "I wish you could appreciate my relationship" nonsense. I would have said "please stop with that crazy bullshit" right there. 

Maybe it's time to go for a mental health screening. Those constant tears interrupted by sarcastic laughter may be a sign of being batshit crazy.

I agree that Mariah's behavior is more than just about the catfish. Mariah said something in her talking head about "there's more to the story" and I believe there's a lifetime of trust issues in their relationship that came to ahead with the catfish. 

Did anyone notice during the conversation in the library with all the parents, Mariah said if she had stayed in Utah she would have married a polygamist, had four sister wives and been totally miserable?  I literally said out loud - "Just like your Mom!"

Mariah does seem really happy and I really admire how open she's been and how accepting her family has been. 

[Granny58]

2 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Sure. Any kid "might" who is adopted or is one of the many thousands born each year through surrogates, donor eggs and donor sperm to straight couples or gay couples. I guess we could quibble about why that matters (personally I don't see why it does any more than anything else they might want or are missing), but then we'd also have to judge people with infertility treatments, single people who choose to have kids knowing they will continue to be single, and the adoption agencies that don't allow gay people to adopt. "They know who those parents are" is not true for millions of kids of straight couples for various reasons. I'm not ready to think every single one of those straight couples shouldn't have had kids either. 

I just think that's 1) way early to be discussing in terms of Mariah and 2) an enormous moral issue that really only seems to come up and be concerning when gays are in the picture, even though in my experience gay couples are the ones, more than straight, who are likeliest to be close to their donors (many straight couples who use them hide that fact). 

It's also ludicrous that Meri pretended not to know when we all watched her go to a fertility specialist. She knows about IVF but not sperm banks? Sperm banks and donor eggs are part and parcel of the conversation once you get to the point of needing IVF. Passive aggressive to the max.

I'm sorry if I came across as implying this issue pertained only to SS couples.  It is not SS couples that are the issue, as much as the needs of the child.  A child born to a M/W couple could conceivably never be told, but a SS couple obviously must have had help.  For you and others, identity is not an issue.  For many others, it is.  From Wikipedia: 

"For most sperm recipients, anonymity of the donor is not of major importance at the obtainment or tryer-stage.[29] Anonymous sperm is often less expensive. Another reason that recipients choose anonymous donors is concern about the role that the donor or the child may want the donor to play in the child's life. Sperm recipients may prefer a non-anonymous donor if they anticipate disclosing donor conception to their child and anticipate the child's desire to seek more information about their donor in the future. A Dutch study found that lesbian couples are significantly more likely (98%) to choose non-anonymous donors than heterosexual couples (63%). Of the heterosexual couples that opted for anonymous donation, 83% intended never to inform their child of their conception via sperm donation.[31]

For children conceived by an anonymous donor, the impossibility of contacting a biological father or the inability to find information about him can potentially be psychologically burdensome.[32] One study estimated that approximately 67% of adolescent donor conceived children with an identity-release door plan to contact him when they turn 18."

With that in mind:  

"Anonymous sperm donation occurs under the condition that recipients and offspring will never learn the identity of the donor. A non-anonymous donor, however, will disclose his identity to recipients. A donor who makes a non-anonymous sperm donation is termed a known donor, an open identity donor, or an identity release donor.  Non-anonymous sperm donors are, to a substantially higher degree, driven by altruistic motives for their donations.[29].  Even in the case of anonymous donation, some information about the donor may be released to recipients at the time of treatment. Limited donor  information includes height, weight, eye, skin and hair colour. In Sweden, this is the extent of disclosed information. In the US, however, additional information may be given, such as a comprehensive biography and sound/video samples.  Several jurisdictions (e.g., Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands, Britain, Switzerland, Australia and New Zealand, and others) only allow non-anonymous sperm donation. This is generally based on the principle that a child has a right to know his or her biological origins. In 2013, a German court precedent was set based on a case brought by a 21-year-old woman.[30]Generally, these jurisdictions require sperm banks to keep up-to-date records and to release identifying information about the donor to his offspring after they reach a certain age (15–18)."  (of note, somewhere in this article it does state that single woman and SS couples are more likely to know the donor, just as you said).  

Finally:

"Even when donors choose to be anonymous, offspring may still find ways to learn more about their biological origins. Registries and DNA databases have been developed for this purpose. Registries that help donor-conceived offspring identify half-siblings from other mothers also help avoid accidental incest in adulthood."

All of this simply indicates that many (not all) children desire to know their biological background.  I agree it is MUCH to early (is it even appropriate?) to discuss Mariah's plans, but the initial statement that kicked this off was Robyn's "who cares who the sperm donor is?"  Many people care and she was carelessly cavalier saying this.  OK, she wasn't sitting there writing a thesis on it and searching for just the perfect term, but it just stuck out to me like a jagged thorn.  

[SunnyBeBe]

13 hours ago, Starsandbucks said:

I think I'm the only person here who doesn't dislike Robyn and really hasn't throughout the entirety of the series! Aspyn chose to move into Robyn's house when she moved back to Las Vegas, Mariah credits her for making it easier to come out and had a separate private chat with her after the family announcement and even Meri includes her as a mediator in her marriage talks. I guess it's a low bar to say that the family seems to really like her but I've never seen her as a terrible and conniving individual. I really appreciated that she basically told Meri that it's not Mariah's responsibility to help her understand. I personally thought it was deplorable for Meri to tell Mariah that she'd always had expectations of a son-in-law and grandchildren. Keep those thoughts to yourself. Regardless of the fact that as far as we all know Mariah can have children should she choose to, it's hurtful and unnecessary to project your unfulfilled expectations onto your children. Gay or not, Mariah was NEVER required to give Meri any of those things. 

I'm not against Robyn either.  I think she has some admirable traits, however, I do have to say that I have had HUGE issues with her for matters involving the kids.  Not to drag up old baggage, but, her description of how she should have never been with her bio kids' dad and how she was robbed of her purity, was cringe worthy.  And her subsequent attempts to rid themselves of the her ex-husband, imo, was harmful and not in the children's best interest.  That, and how she doesn't listen to sound business advice and thinks Sister Wife's Closet can survive on good thoughts and positivity, but, no one is perfect. Maybe, she's grown over the last couple of seasons.  I suspect that most of her positions stemmed from ignorance and perhaps she sees that now.  Hmmm.......

But, I don't dislike her.  I think that perhaps dealing with Kody has brought her down to earth and she may be thinking about now........Be careful what you wish for. lol 

[VedaPierce]

I have always had pretty hard feelings towards Meri, I always found her greedy, entitled, cold... And after catfish blew up, initially I felt sorry for her humiliation, then anger at her lies about it and insulted that she thinks we are so stupid as to swallow her bullshit explanations. I was angry at the way she handled the scandal, her expectations of forgiveness from Mariah. Until this episode when it really dawned on me that she just CAN'T admit to anything. She can NOT tell everything to everyone. She just can't. And the viewers don't have to accept it, but I believe her daughter should. I'm a different personality, I talk and talk and reveal all (much to my detriment on occasion) but Meri is closed. She's quiet, uncomfortable with revelations-perhaps she was smacked down for it in her formative years, punished by some dysfunctional person in authority for being too open and honest. I don't know, all I know is once I got frustrated with my mother and yelled at her for not doing something the way I thought she should, and she simply replied that she 'can't', said she is doing the best she can. And that shut me up and I really absorbed it and understood it. Mariah is young and one day she will understand when she gets past her know-it-all stage. I can't believe I'm defending the horrible Meri, but there it is. She'll probably do something selfish and stupid soon and it will be off to the races again!

Edited January 10, 2017 by VedaPierce

[DakotaJustice]

Kind of gives one new insight as to why Mariah was so insistent about going to Westminster, and so adamant AGAINST staying in town and attending UNLV.  Whether she knew her gender preference at the time or not, it appears even four years ago she wanted her freedom and to get far away from her uber-clingy mother. 

[SunnyBeBe]

It seems that Meri has been able to speak about her feelings before.....like with Sam.  Before they put the listening devices into her walls. 

[Sista Snarky]

Ok...so let's say there's a compulsive gambler. This person has a real issue & most likely a strong desire to keep rolling the dice (on Twitter with contact/bonds/relationships with other new strangers) & lacks the ability to come to terms with the root of the problem... will not go through the recovery step process. This person is manipulative at times saying that she's getting sick & tired of waiting for people to trust her again. Never truly apologizes...& simply wants to move & like there is no problem suggesting that  bad associates at the casino manipulated her into gambling. No more bad associate...no more problem. Wrong. 

The people in her life are upset at the situation but there is no real progress. 

It's not a situation where this person is  shunned. It's being in the same place somewhat distant (while having appropriate boundaries) where things are cordial.

Meri wants to go back to the "trust me" with your personal business intimate feelings  details of your life....like "let me back in" (even though she herself stated that she does not even trust herself at times during the last Tell All") She pushes let me in...let me in when she is sealed tight on a foundation of lie after lie about her own issues.

No person in their right mind would give the gambler access to their credit cards bank accounts PIN numbers etc. knowing that the addict is untreated...cannot & will not honestly address the issue. 

That's called enabling & the worst thing one can do with someone who cannot face their own truths. 

Maybe Meri will hit bottom one day & put the needed effort into fixing things. That's on Meri. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[toodles]

15 hours ago, ragingpixie said:

JFC, Meri. This is your only child. Find a way to communicate effectively without chewing on your thumbnail and giggling nervously.

It's not like you have to sit on a couch with Janelle or something.

This is so bad, but you couldn't tell from looking at any of them that they have issues with sitting.  Their rear ends indicate to me that sitting is not one of their problems.  I should know.  My rear end does plenty of sitting.

[Roslyn]

1 hour ago, VedaPierce said:

Until this episode when it really dawned on me that she just CAN'T admit to anything. She can NOT tell everything to everyone. She just can't. And the viewers don't have to accept it, but I believe her daughter should. I'm a different personality, I talk and talk and reveal all (much to my detriment on occasion) but Meri is closed. She's quiet, uncomfortable with revelations-perhaps she was smacked down for it in her formative years, punished by some dysfunctional person in authority for being too open and honest. I don't know, all I know is once I got frustrated with my mother and yelled at her for not doing something the way I thought she should, and she simply replied that she 'can't', said she is doing the best she can. And that shut me up and I really absorbed it and understood it. Mariah is young and one day she will understand when she gets past her know-it-all stage. I can't believe I'm defending the horrible Meri, but there it is. She'll probably do something selfish and stupid soon and it will be off to the races again!

I think this is a key phrase!

We do know who smacked her down.  Kody. She has stated that she knows what she wants and doesn't have a problem verbalizing her opinion and exactly how she feels.  She uses this as an excuse as to why she was abusive to Janelle when Janelle entered the family.  The only real instances we have to be an example is that Janelle like to wash dishes in the morning and Meri liked to wash them before bed. They got up at different times (Janelle early/Meri late) and their personal laundry habits clashed. I'm sure there were more, but that is all they have really said either on the show or in their book.

So...early on she is "open and honest" about her housekeeping demands and takes it out in the snippy bitchy way that we have seen her behave.  Quiet Janelle doesn't have skills to stand her ground and Meri is the bully. Looking backwards in time it's easy to see that Kody should have done what a good Principle man would do.  Stand up and set rules and boundaries, but he's a Narcissistic Showboat who lacks any kind of leadership skills and thinks that he plays no role in the women's emotional and mental well being.  Their family foundation was built with the wrong materials with shoddy construction.

Her religion teaches that women must obey and please their husbands on this worldly plane to earn their way into the highest of the Celestial Kingdoms. She wants what she wants, she wants things done her way, with respect always paid to her feelings, but the trump card is Kody.  He's the same, he only wants "fun" with none of those emotional downers the women bring.  So Meri's wants are bulldozed by Kody.

It was very apparent in the language and body language with the Kody/Robyn/Meri talk at the wet bar in this episode.  Kody barked that he will NOT sit on the couch (where they have had other catfish talks with Nancy) and they will sit at the wet bar.  Meri immediately states she "isn't comfortable" sitting at the wet bar (where she is forced to be face to face with Kody), when he insists... her body language is telling.  She rolls her shoulders like a chastised child and starts to repeat over and over, "okay, this is where Kody wants to sit, Kody wants this, Kody wants to sit here" in near hysteria.

While we have to take the things that the catfish says with a grain of salt, there was one telling thing where Meri said something along the lines that "she knows all too well how it feels to be compared to everyone else".  I think that is a small opening of something much bigger.  I think it means that over her marriage Kody has openly compared her to the other wives.  I can see him doing it all too well, especially with their religious doctrine that insists on the absolute "sweetness" of women.

[okerry]

17 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

No, the topic was having a dad or not having a dad, and the *gender* of the parents. Not a false equivalence at all. Stated in a wildly homophobic way (that's not the "solution to a two-woman marriage"). Didn't know it needed a "solution." 

I should have said, "Pretending the man does not exist is not the solution to reproducing in a two-woman marriage." Apologies.

And I might say the same thing to the Sister Wives, though in their case it's "pretending sex with the other 'wives' doesn't exist." As if all those babies just magically happened on their own. The way some women (gay or straight) who use donors sometimes behave. It's great for the moms but can be extremely hard for the children when they realize they'll never know who their bio father is. I still maintain that everyone has the right to know this fact, whether they have much of a relationship with him or not.

Edited January 10, 2017 by okerry

[Granny58]

44 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

So...early on she is "open and honest" about her housekeeping demands and takes it out in the snippy bitchy way that we have seen her behave.  Quiet Janelle doesn't have skills to stand her ground and Meri is the bully. Looking backwards in time it's easy to see that Kody should have done what a good Principle man would do.  Stand up and set rules and boundaries, but he's a Narcissistic Showboat who lacks any kind of leadership skills and thinks that he plays no role in the women's emotional and mental well being.  Their family foundation was built with the wrong materials with shoddy construction.

1000%

[Sista Snarky]

1 hour ago, Roslyn said:

I think this is a key phrase!

We do know who smacked her down.  Kody. She has stated that she knows what she wants and doesn't have a problem verbalizing her opinion and exactly how she feels.  She uses this as an excuse as to why she was abusive to Janelle when Janelle entered the family.  The only real instances we have to be an example is that Janelle like to wash dishes in the morning and Meri liked to wash them before bed. They got up at different times (Janelle early/Meri late) and their personal laundry habits clashed. I'm sure there were more, but that is all they have really said either on the show or in their book.

So...early on she is "open and honest" about her housekeeping demands and takes it out in the snippy bitchy way that we have seen her behave.  Quiet Janelle doesn't have skills to stand her ground and Meri is the bully. Looking backwards in time it's easy to see that Kody should have done what a good Principle man would do.  Stand up and set rules and boundaries, but he's a Narcissistic Showboat who lacks any kind of leadership skills and thinks that he plays no role in the women's emotional and mental well being.  Their family foundation was built with the wrong materials with shoddy construction.

Her religion teaches that women must obey and please their husbands on this worldly plane to earn their way into the highest of the Celestial Kingdoms. She wants what she wants, she wants things done her way, with respect always paid to her feelings, but the trump card is Kody.  He's the same, he only wants "fun" with none of those emotional downers the women bring.  So Meri's wants are bulldozed by Kody.

It was very apparent in the language and body language with the Kody/Robyn/Meri talk at the wet bar in this episode.  Kody barked that he will NOT sit on the couch (where they have had other catfish talks with Nancy) and they will sit at the wet bar.  Meri immediately states she "isn't comfortable" sitting at the wet bar (where she is forced to be face to face with Kody), when he insists... her body language is telling.  She rolls her shoulders like a chastised child and starts to repeat over and over, "okay, this is where Kody wants to sit, Kody wants this, Kody wants to sit here" in near hysteria.

While we have to take the things that the catfish says with a grain of salt, there was one telling thing where Meri said something along the lines that "she knows all too well how it feels to be compared to everyone else".  I think that is a small opening of something much bigger.  I think it means that over her marriage Kody has openly compared her to the other wives.  I can see him doing it all too well, especially with their religious doctrine that insists on the absolute "sweetness" of women.

Meri seems to have a superiority complex with low self esteem.

She has no problem being pushy assertive & bitchy with high expectations  in practice but whenever  that is mentioned...instead of being apologetic...she starts crying hysterically...for the "poor Meri" smokescreen. When the sharing a kitchen topic  came up with the Danger's...Meri simply went into hysterical crying mode saying "I never meant to be abusive" & didn't seem to learn from that & check herself.

 Meri  took such  a nasty arrogant  tone "you want the wreath buy the wreath" instead of maybe having a moment of thought about the difference between Meri & Janelle.

Meri is the wife that vacationed on Mexico & didn't seem to have a care in the world when it came to finances...where Janelle (who actually was footing much of the household expenses) was careful about buying new sleeping bags for a camping overnight as her "vacation" 

I think Meri has resentment & hostility towards Janelle & Christine for having less than Meri...because Meri doesn't want to own that she pushed to have  more things & exactly her way & the only one who ever cried non-stop about it. They all tuned that crying out so long ago. It's like they don't even realize she's crying because she's on a loop. Well...except for Robyn who has to cry in stereo with Meri.

Polygamy sucks but I think a big part of this ridiculous gig that they all signed up for as consenting adults is the constant dynamic of  wives overcoming jealousy & battles = dysfunctional bonus points.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[lookeyloo]

Well, I watched, and FF as necessary.  As a mother of a son who came out, I was more in the camp of Robin and Janelle.  Honestly it didn't take me all that long to "process".  Realizing MMV.  It explained a lot.  My son was so much lighter of mood.  We are not religious, nor are we Christians, so didn't have that to contend with.  Meri seems incapable of even expressing herself let alone understanding anyone else or their feelings, or hers in relation to them. Is it all a part of a game she plays to pretend to be so obtuse?  Or is she really?  I think she is of the "you have to figure out what I mean or am feeling or want" camp.  My late mother was like that.  Looking back we think she had clinical depression, long before Prozac or its cousins.  My late father would say to her "What's wrong" and she would say "If I have to tell you, its no good" - really what she said.  I don't think she really knew.  I wonder if Meri knows either.  Yes, she did go with the catfish, but, it was very skilled in ferreting out responses.  Mariah seems so much happier, content, not even very troubled about her relationship with her mother.  She knows Meri is lying, not taking responsibility  for the catfish thing and she knows her mother wants her to "help" her to say the right things, do the right things.  Meri seems not able to do that.  If I am incoherent it is because I am having an early glass of wine.

[ghoulina]

14 hours ago, wifey81 said:

I don't buy for a second that Meri was confused about how Mariah would become a parent - I think her repeated nonsense claiming it was a mystery was her passive-aggressive way of communicating that she does not approve of same-sex couples becoming parents.

Right. I got the impression that she was trying to send a message to Mariah that it wouldn't be very easy for her to have children. "I don't know HOW you're going to do it"....as if she could discourage her away. 

 

14 hours ago, wifey81 said:

I have a feeling she saves her conversations with Mariah for the cameras too, which understandably drives Mariah insane. It boxes Mariah into having the talk, for the sake of the cameras, but she can't hide how little she wants to participate.

Yes to this as well. Didn't Kody say she does basically the same thing with him in the last episode?

[Bitsy]

I think Mariah is totally right to put distance between herself and her mother.  It needed to happen, and not because of the catfishing.  Meri has been using Mariah for years as a best friend substitute and pouring her limitless angst into her.

Remember when Robyn announced her first pregnancy and Mariah ran out of the room sobbing because of how her mother would feel?  Or that episode when the houses were almost finished and Meri said roughly 500 times that all Mariah wanted was to have Meri's house finished by Christmas?  Bullshit.  Yes, Mariah was the one crying about it, but it was clearly Meri who gave her the idea that her happiness rested on the stupid wet bar being ready in time for a Christmas cookie buffet.

When Meri made Mariah an accomplice in her plan to have an affair and desert the family, I think that was just the last straw.

I thought Mariah absolutely did the right thing during that porch conversation by remaining detached and not letting Meri force her into one of her emotionally manipulative conversations that would have been all about Meri's feelings.  Like Robyn said, Meri should be working through her feelings with other adults, not with Mariah and Mariah seemed to know that.  I think it shows maturity that she is able to stand up for herself to her mother while remaining calm.  She's the mature one in that relationship.

[RedheadZombie]

11 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

If Mariah wants to get all self righteous about her mother's lies she shouldn't ignore the blatant lies pushed by the rest of her family either, especially Kody.  How could she miss how they have lied and misrepresented themselves on TV and continue to spin things to make them look much better than they really are?  I don't see how one lie is ultimately any better than any other here.

Yeah, I'm not in the camp of poor Mariah is only upset because Meri lied and betrayed her.  Mariah has made two very telling comments.  One, she didn't even "like" her mom before the catfish incident.  Second, she told Meri to stop, and Meri didn't obey her.

As someone who was born into a similar situation (except polygamy) I just don't get Mariah's  complete coldness toward Meri, while simultaneously holding Kody up as the perfect parent.  I was the only, and desperately wanted, child born to a woman whose eight siblings were popping out babies like a Plyg.  I was her everything.  I was treated as an equal partner, versus the child, through much of my life, etc.  There is nothing my mom could do that would make me look at her like she was repulsive, refuse to look at her as she speaks, torture her for more than a year for a mistake, and repeatedly tell the world what a bad person she was.  NOTHING.

 Mariah watches her mother squirm, and deliberately maintains silence to make her mother increasingly nervous.  It's the cold way she does this that gets to me.  I see no evidence that she's torn, or even ambivalent.  I see someone who acts as if her mother no longer exists.  It's very weird when you consider that even adult children of alcoholic mothers feel some positive emotions towards their mothers.  It's very calculated cruelty, as if she's choosing her actions and words that have the highest probability of hurting Meri.

There's a scene I absolutely loved in Big Love.  Barb's oldest daughter was shutting her out of her life, and turned her back on her to walk away from Barb while Barb was talking.  Barb basically said - You are not allowed to just walk away from me.  I am your mother.  No one will ever love you more than me.  

And BTW, since Mariah is so disgusted, betrayed, righteous, and has chosen to treat Meri like the enemy who isn't worthy of her respect, time of day, or deserving of Princess Mariah's valuable time, how about she put her money where her mouth is and refuse the money Meri fought for and delivered for Mariah's elite education and superior car?  And since Meri is a virtual stranger, how about we consider all of that tuition a loan, and you pay it back?  

And for someone who has finally realized her worth as an autonomous woman (although she just whined "I'm just a kid"), and who's rightfully seized her girl power, she is so blinded by her own bias.  She's blaming the powerless wife, while worshipping the patriarch.  That's willful ignorance.  She's pushing back on the way she was raised, and the values she was taught, yet still holding Meri's feet to the fire for trying to get out of it herself.  

I feel strongly that Mariah's true anger lies in the fact that her beloved Kody was rejected, and that her mother was no longer spending 100% of her time worshipping at the altar of Mariah.  

[Snarklepuss]

8 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

I don't know, all I know is once I got frustrated with my mother and yelled at her for not doing something the way I thought she should, and she simply replied that she 'can't', said she is doing the best she can. And that shut me up and I really absorbed it and understood it. Mariah is young and one day she will understand when she gets past her know-it-all stage. I can't believe I'm defending the horrible Meri, but there it is. She'll probably do something selfish and stupid soon and it will be off to the races again!

The older I get the more I understand what my own mother was dealing with in her life (she passed away 15 years ago) and I only feel more compassion for her.  I had already come a long way toward that type of compassion by the time she died when I was 42 years old, but even since then I have realized all the more.  I think one day Mariah will wake up and see that for a person who felt her only good choice was to be a polygamist married to one man with 4 other women her mother was doing the best she could, especially considering where she came from.  Mariah has had the advantage of growing up with a lot more sophistication and awareness in a time when it is much easier and acceptable for her to make the life choices that are healthiest for her.  She is fortunate that she won't then act messed up and miserable 20+ years down the line from having gone down the wrong road.  One day when she realizes all of that she will forgive her mother.  Unfortunately right now it looks like it might take some time before she is ready to have that awareness.

[Sista Snarky]

11 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I guess my question is, why aren't the other adults worried?  And if they're not, shouldn't that be a huge, red-flag wake-up call for Meri?  If she is indeed living polygamy based on their religious beliefs, and no one else is concerned about Mariah's eternity, Meri should certainly question that.

 

Lest we forget, the sermon was also in front of the kids...several who were too young to know what she was talking about, but some - Hunter, Logan, Aspyn, etc. - who were of an age where Robyn's "purrrity" chat would've been incredibly uncomfortable and embarrassing, especially since Robyn, with great ceremony, handed her cookie to Kody.  Awkward and inappropriate do not even begin to cover it.

 

I keep circling back to thinking that Meri was indeed set to bail (see: Alaska trip - "don't be surprised if you all wake up one day and I'm gone") and Mariah knew it.  After all, Meri would never leave without telling Mariah where she was going.  Or maybe Meri started dropping hints to Mariah...things like, "hey, how would you fill about moving to Chicago?"  Meri, as we've seen, treats Mariah like a friend and confidant - hence, Mariah knowing about the catfish situation, warning Meri about it, Meri even taking Mariah to meet "Sam."  It seems highly likely that Meri would've also had conversations with her daughter about wanting to move to be with "Sam."  If that is the case (speculation on my part, of course), then I would have to side with Mariah, especially since Meri simply will not come clean about the fact that she was thinking about leaving Mariah's father for a person Mariah knew did not exist. 

EDIT: I just thought of this...when Meri was in the car with JO on the way to Disneyland...the trip where Meri supposedly "figured things out," was Mariah also on that particular trip?  If so, that would explain a lot about Mariah's anger.

I think there was one trip to Disney with "Lindsay" where Mariah was smart enough to say no thanks...I'd rather do homework.

"Fake Sam" may have used the ol' Catfish imagination to claim that on one of Meri & Mariah's actual trips to Disney...Meri was sneaking off from Mariah fron time-to-time to throw & catch  "eye kisses" or whatever silly expression was used & also have sex sex sex. "Fake Sam" likes to point out that they had fake  sex sex sex. 

Meri expected & planned to meet "Fake Sam" on the actual Meri/Mariah trip to Disney  but ya know "Fake Sam"

Edited January 11, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[maraleia]

Watching this episode made me see how uniformed all of the parents are about LGBTQ issues because as accepting as Robyn is she still said sexual preference when it's sexual orientation. They really need to do some research and there are numerous websites out there and an LGBTQ center in Vegas. There's no excuse for this when one lives in a metropolitan area in the western world.

[luckylisp]

23 hours ago, Starsandbucks said:

I think I'm the only person here who doesn't dislike Robyn and really hasn't throughout the entirety of the series!

I don't dislike Robyn either. I don't dislike any of them actually. It's easy to sit in judgment of anyone whose life is being played out in scenes on TV. We could put anyone's life up and pick their behavior apart. Anyone can easily be made to look bad even if they are genuinely good people. I do think people are really hard on Meri. I haven't followed it closely enough to know where the lies are in her retelling of the catfishing stuff, but even then it's hard for me not to feel for her. She grew up living a lifestyle that is now clearly making her unhappy and feeling trapped. Nothing she did to my mind deserves the treatment she is now receiving from Mariah. I would never think to sit in judgment of my mother as Mariah is, lies and all, when it's so clear that Meri loves her daughter and very much wants to reconnect. She's not shown any cruelty to her and doesn't deserve the non stop belligerence Mariah is giving her for what... over a year now?

In regards to some other posts.. I didn't take Meri as not being accepting of Mariah's choice just because she felt let down by it. To me she just needs time to work through it. It would be perfect world if every parent said to their child who just came out, I'm so proud of you! I'm so happy you're living your true self now! but life is rarely like that. I think Meri's questions were natural and normal. Some are saying she made it all about herself. I didn't see it that way. Sure, she was expressing some disappointment. It's the most natural thing in the world for a parent to have an idea of what their children's lives are going to look like and be disappointed when it's not the way you imagined. Of course, it's wonderful to embrace a curve ball with arms wide open, but that's rarely reality. Especially taking into consideration their religion, I think Meri did pretty well. 

On a random note, for me more than anything this show has really done nothing more than prove just how dysfunctional this lifestyle is. Funny because that's not exactly what they set out to prove. The polygamist lifestyle is consistently spoken of as one big happy family, children with more than one mother loving them, lots of wonderful, loving siblings, everyone working together. Basically, we're all one big happy family. Then when you watch and you quickly see how rapidly this idea falls apart and everyone's instinctual feelings and emotions are far from what is expected, simply because it's not natural. You can force any kind of lifestyle you want, but this lifestyle is not a healthy emotional process for most people.  Certainly not for the women.

When the TLC money rolled in they all quickly (and very happily) broke polygamy rule number one, we all live in one big house, we're all one big happy family helping each other out. No, you lived in one house because that's all that a lifestyle with that many children affords you. I could go on and list so many aspects of why this lifestyle doesn't work, and how this show proves it time after time, but the list would be so long. What I have noted is when given another option they all quickly go into self preservation mode and are ready to take it.  Meri's lonely and is ready to run away with the catfisher. Janelle seems super content living alone with her kids in her big house, you get the feeling Kody could stop in once a month for lunch and she'd be ok with it. (Maybe that's all that's already happening) Kody's clearly decided Robyn's his favorite and we can be pretty sure the rotation is not on carried out in any regular pattern anymore.  What would it take for them all to be honest with themselves and say that this lifestyle is not actually working for them? I realize one might say but it's their religion, their belief, they must stay.. but then again, it didn't seem to stop Meri from being ready to run for the hills.




 

[CofCinci]

Quote

I guess my question is, why aren't the other adults worried?  And if they're not, shouldn't that be a huge, red-flag wake-up call for Meri?  If she is indeed living polygamy based on their religious beliefs, and no one else is concerned about Mariah's eternity, Meri should certainly question that.

Janelle and Christine aren't worried because they've already played the role of "Mother of the Bride".  Kody isn't worried because women are chattel in their faith - and he has tons of other children. Robyn doesn't care about Mariah's enternity because she was never into this bullshit to begin with. She played a role and entered this lifestyle solely to gain resources for herself and her children. They were broke as fuck.  Polygamy paid her bills.

Meri is happier when she is away from these people. 

[LotusFlower]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

Robyn doesn't care about Mariah's enternity because she was never into this bullshit to begin with. She played a role and entered this lifestyle solely to gain resources for herself and her children. They were broke as fuck.  Polygamy paid her bills.

I'm pretty sure Robyn's first husband is from a large polygamist family, so even though he didn't have multiple wives, I don't know if it's accurate to say Robyn wasn't into the whole shebang.  (Although I agree with you about her motive for joining the Kody Show).

[Granny58]

11 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

As someone who was born into a similar situation (except polygamy) I just don't get Mariah's  complete coldness toward Meri, while simultaneously holding Kody up as the perfect parent.  I was the only, and desperately wanted, child born to a woman whose eight siblings were popping out babies like a Plyg.  I was her everything.  I was treated as an equal partner, versus the child, through much of my life, etc.  There is nothing my mom could do that would make me look at her like she was repulsive, refuse to look at her as she speaks, torture her for more than a year for a mistake, and repeatedly tell the world what a bad person she was.  NOTHING

This makes me smile.  I love your understanding.