S01.E11: The Right Thing to Do

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

If that boss is the bank.

Well, that's why I said this was all probably before they got the mortgage to actually pay for the house.  I just think Jacks' "I just bought it" could easily mean "I just arranged a sales price with my boss and scraped up the x% down payment to arrange a mortgage."  

I know what you mean, though.  Little details stick for different people.  I think 'gallon of ice cream' was supposed to show that Rebecca is lovably impulsive and devil-may-care but to me it just sounded a little wrong and over the top, like most else on this show.    I did balk at all the railroading of Rebecca's input Jack did on the housing decisions.  And I find it just mildly offensive that it was arguably suggested that women love a grand romantic gesture like this so much they just melt and forget their own rights to an opinion on major life decisions like where to live.  Kate was so charmed by Toby's adorableness she just giggled instead of doing what we all (or mostly) were-- cringing at his hospital antics and begging him to stop embarrassing himself and her.  

[ZaldamoWilder]

20 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I want Kevin to move out of Randall's basement.  He's been there a couple months now.  Move on.  Also, where is Toby going to go when he gets out of the hospital, which should be soon since they don't keep you long for anything anymore.  Kate is at Rebecca and Miguel's, right?  Do they have another spare room?  Maybe this will be the point where Kate and Toby move in together.

I have a hard time seeing it that way.  I feel like Jack probably didn't feel like he earned it.  I bet he knocks himself out repaying that money as fast as possible, because it is from that horrible man.  He wouldn't want that kind of payoff for a lifetime of seeing his father mistreat his mother and himself, more likely he'd want nothing to do with him or his money. 

I'm with you on that.  I think he enjoys the cucoonery of it all though.  I know he lived alone before but Kate was nearby.

That’s probably because you’re a decent person.   As pedantic as I can be about stuff like mortgages and ice cream containers, please forgive the analogy, it’s completely hypothetical but if we struck up a conversation and you told me you’d been convicted of the murder of the priest whom you found raping your 11 year old little boy , I’d give you half my sandwich.    Spiritually, I'm a work in progress lol.

[Tikichick]

This is a hideous, ugly thing to say, but by the time Kate was talking to Toby post surgery I was hoping she would smother him.  His "sense of humor" was making me stabby.  I realize much of it was likely brought on under extreme stress, but I could hardly tolerate it as a viewer.  When I think of the character as a person IRL and consider if I knew him I would be dealing with this "sense of humor" at times I was also stressed I realize I would absolutely snap. 

Mr. Tiki has filed my feelings under Good Info To Know.

[Mrs. DuRona]

Regarding "a gallon of ice cream".  I say that all the time when I'm super stressed out.  She may not have meant it literally, but more of "I am super stressed and I need ice cream and space".  Also, I lived in Pittsburgh in the early 2000s, and there was not a Friendly's west of Danville, PA.  Were there Friendly's in Pgh in the 80s?  Growing up in New England, it was sad not having Friendly's.  Eat n Park was a nice substitute, though...

Nice to see Elizabeth Perkins!

[Tikichick]

41 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

If that boss is the bank.   I'm probably hearing Jack's "I just bought it" too literally.  It's not a conventional sale, he cut his boss or a check or exchanged the down payment for the increase in wages he asked for and the financing came later.   Sorry lol, I'm that weirdo who actually likes to watch the sausage being made.

OT, but I just had to say, adore your screen name.  Had to do a double take to make sure it said what I thought it did.

[Hanahope]

So, I was amazed at the numbers mentioned during the show.  $200 for an apartment? Jack only making $17,500 as the "highest paid foreman" when he was over 30? - and that was a 10% raise.  In know 1979-80, but those numbers just seem so low.  I know that apartments near UCLA in 1984 went for $800 for a one-bedroom.  At that time, I could also get a secretarial job making $1,200 a month right out of highschool (had I not gone to college).  but I guess Pittsburgh had much lower costs/wages than Los Angeles.

And it was clear that Jack didn't have a clue that a 6th floor walk-up for a pregnant woman (especially in the 8+ month), or a mother who'd have to carry the baby, then toddler up all those stairs, would be significantly difficult.

I didn't quite see what was so "money pit" about the house.  Its a new house being constructed.  It certainly didn't look like it was some old house being renovated, with various different parts of the house all needing repairs.  A new house being constructed wouldn't be a "money pit" unless the contractor/owner made significant errors in their labor/materials estimates.  It wasn't as if they had a home buyer who was making all these 'change orders' or wanting top of the line fixtures and such.  The story would have made more sense is the general contractor/owner said that his buyer backed out and a glut of new homes in a nearby developement (or a bunch of nearby conversions of apartments to condos - which was a big thing then) would make it very hard to find a new buyer.

[Guest]

I thought it was a fixer-upper.  It didn't look like any new construction I've seen.  I don't watch closely, though.  

I got my first 'real' job in 1983, at Mutual of Omaha.  My annual salary was $7000/year.  Ouch.  My rent at the time was around $200/month.  Google tells me the median per capita income in Pittsburgh in 1980 was $7357.  So Jack was livin' large.  LOL  (Or actually they were probably right around that median, since that value is so low I'm assuming it's counting non-workers like Rebecca in, so with Jack's salary their per capita household income was just a little over that median.)

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PITT342PCPI

Edited January 12, 2017 by Guest

[Tikichick]

I thought possibly Jack and Rebecca had discussions during the pregnancy about cravings and had a sense that she hadn't taken him up on anything until that point.  It seemed like she knew he was desperately reaching for ways to make her happy in light of the triplet bombshell and when she knew she needed some alone time for a good cry she decided to make use of the stereotypical craving, give Jack a task and get the few minutes breathing room she needed.  He obviously pounced on the request immediately, seemingly a little surprised, a little relieved.  Obviously he clued into what was really happening in her mind when he found her crying and made the choice to do whatever he had to to give her what she really craved -- a home where it would be physically and financially possible to raise their family.   

[photo fox]

Regarding the "gallon of ice cream"...  were we supposed to think she was going to eat the whole thing in one sitting?  I've seen a bunch of posts about how "over the top" it was, etc.  But I assumed she would eat what she wanted and put the rest in the freezer.  It has a long shelf-life because, you know, frozen.  I'm around the age of the Big Three, and my mom would have never dreamed of buying anything smaller than a gallon.  Those little "fancy" boxes are expensive!

Two hundred for a two-bedroom walk-up seemed right to me.  When I was looking at apartments right out of college, the nicest apartments in town would have been under $500 a month.  (That was in the mid-90s, and not in a major urban area, for point of reference.)

Jack buying a house without Rebecca's knowledge was ridiculous, but I'm assuming since it was a private sale, from his boss who apparently likes him, he could have backed out of it.  Still not romantic, tho.

[Hanahope]

20 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I thought it was a fixer-upper.  It didn't look like any new construction I've seen.  I don't watch closely, though.

Well, the electrical outlets/switches were all rough, no fixtures.  The staircase was rough framing.  there didn't appear to be any ceiling, just rough framing from the roof/floors.  Drywall was up, but no finish paint (lots of patchwork from holes?).  There were no doors.  No appliances.  The fireplace didn't look finished at all.  If it was a fixer-uper, there must have demolished a large part of the original structure.

Oh, wanted to add, I loved how Rebecca's mom blamed Jack for the triplets.  Uh, honey, since apparently it was 3 separate eggs that got fertilized (no mention of any baby being identical to another), that's on Rebecca.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Hanahope

[ClareWalks]

42 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

In know 1979-80, but those numbers just seem so low.  I know that apartments near UCLA in 1984 went for $800 for a one-bedroom.  At that time, I could also get a secretarial job making $1,200 a month right out of highschool (had I not gone to college).  but I guess Pittsburgh had much lower costs/wages than Los Angeles.

Yeah, you must have just been in a super expensive area. You can get a one-bedroom in Milwaukee or Madison next to a college campus for less than that *today.* It is kind of amazing to me how much farther money can go in different parts of the country, or in different eras. $200 a month, I was like "daaaamn!"

[ShadowFacts]

I recently found an old checkbook register from 1984 and my rent was $280 for a one bedroom in a small midwestern city.  It was nice but not plush. 

I also thought the house was new construction.  It looked like it, though I didn't look as closely at the details as Hanahope.  I also associate a foreman, crew, and boss with new construction. 

[Court]

1 hour ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

Regarding "a gallon of ice cream".  I say that all the time when I'm super stressed out.  She may not have meant it literally, but more of "I am super stressed and I need ice cream and space".  Also, I lived in Pittsburgh in the early 2000s, and there was not a Friendly's west of Danville, PA.  Were there Friendly's in Pgh in the 80s?  Growing up in New England, it was sad not having Friendly's.  Eat n Park was a nice substitute, though...

Nice to see Elizabeth Perkins!

Oh my gosh,this brings back memories! Every time we visited my grandparents, they'd take us to Eat n Park at least twice. Loved it

I say carton of ice cream so my husband knows to go to the store. If not, he'll ask a follow up question, like you want insert ice cream shop name here.

I think way too much is being read into the request for a gallon.

[Mrs. DuRona]

7 minutes ago, Court said:

Oh my gosh,this brings back memories! Every time we visited my grandparents, they'd take us to Eat n Park at least twice. Loved it

Grilled stickies, man.  I almost want to move back to Pittsburgh just for that.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Well, the electrical outlets/switches were all rough, no fixtures.  The staircase was rough framing.  there didn't appear to be any ceiling, just rough framing from the roof/floors.  Drywall was up, but no finish paint (lots of patchwork from holes?).  There were no doors.  No appliances.  The fireplace didn't look finished at all.  If it was a fixer-uper, there must have demolished a large part of the original structure.

Oh, wanted to add, I loved how Rebecca's mom blamed Jack for the triplets.  Uh, honey, since apparently it was 3 separate eggs that got fertilized (no mention of any baby being identical to another), that's on Rebecca.

I went back and rewatched out of curiosity and I think it was just an overkill depiction of a gut job remodel.  The drywall was blue throughout with random patches and the neighborhood had huge mature trees.  They referred to it as a hellhole, a money pit and Rebecca's reaction to it was "oof".   

4 minutes ago, Court said:

I think way too much is being read into the request for a gallon.

Well, I did bring it up as a tiny nitpick.  I didn't think it implied she had an eating disorder or planned to eat it all.  I just thought it was more of the typical OTT nature of the show, just like the above topic.  

[Aloeonatable]

Mr. Aloe's and my first apartment was $105.00 and that was for a one bedroom. The two bedroom apartments in our complex went for $125.00. Of course this was the early '70s, in So. Cal. Our first house only cost $33,000.00 for a 3 bedroom ranch house. Cars cost more than that today. 

As for the ice cream, I think Rebecca was exaggerating the large amount just in jest. Jack could have bought 2 half gallon containers if he took her seriously. Minor nitpick. 

[luna1122]

3 minutes ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

Grilled stickies, man.  I almost want to move back to Pittsburgh just for that.

omg, I just googled these, having never heard of them and man, now I want.

 

11 minutes ago, Court said:

I think way too much is being read into the request for a gallon.

Waaay too much. I say 'gallon of ice cream' not even being aware that what we really get is a half gallon. I have no concept of size or measurement or how many ounces or quarts in a thing. I really just mean I want a shit-ton of ice cream, please, that I COULD eat all at once but won't. And clearly Rebecca does not.

[Guest]

No one's reading anything into it.  We're just discussing if a gallon of ice cream was a thing, like Diet Coke.  Is it trivial?  YES.  Is there much else to discuss in mid-January...?  Even this show was dull this week and it's one of the only ones I watch that's back on.  

[Mrs. DuRona]

With regards to him buying the house without her... when Mr. DuRuona and I moved a couple of years ago, we did make the housing situation decision together.  Having said that, he knows me so well, and what I want in a home, that if he were to walk in and say that he found us the perfect house and was going to put a deposit on it, etc, I would be like "Heck yeah, house hunting sucks!"

But seriously, what kind of income does Rebecca have?  We know she sings with a band, but do they pay her under the table or is it claimed?  If she has no official income of her own, how much is required of her for getting a mortgage, etc?

Edited January 12, 2017 by Mrs. DuRona

[ShadowFacts]

6 minutes ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

But seriously, what kind of income does Rebecca have?  We know she sings with a band, but do they pay her under the table or is it claimed?  If she has no official income of her own, how much is required of her for getting a mortgage, etc?

Whatever she has been doing for the last, say, 10 years, and with Jack's income since they've been married, they should have something put away.  This need for sacrifices of either living with her parents or getting money from his jerky father is all dramatic build-up to see how much they love each other and want to provide for their kids.  You know, like most people.  It was a bit overdone like a lot of stuff in this show.  The interesting part for me is that he's doing it secretly.  Something about that might come back and bite him, just like Rebecca's secret about knowing William did. 

[MsChicklet]

Quote

My brother had major bypass surgery on a Monday and had to go home on a Thursday.

Yep. Drive-thru health care. MrChicklet had three stents put in and was sent home the next morning.

Edited January 12, 2017 by MsChicklet

[doodlebug]

13 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I assumed Jack's boss and Jack made a verbal agreement for Jack to buy the house (with a mortgage, of course) and that Jack and possibly Rebecca would need to go arrange that mortgage at some point after Jack showed her the house.   

Does Pittsburgh really have 6th floor walkups?  Is land that rare in western PA?  I thought that sort of apt. was pretty much limited to NYC and maybe a couple other major cities.

There probably are some 6th floor walkups in Pittsburgh, but not many.  The housing options in Pittsburgh at that time were not nearly so limited.  A lot of young married couples wanting to stay in the more urban areas would've had a lot of duplexes to choose from as well as regular apartment buildings, most of them having elevators.  Lots of far better options for a young family should have been available.

  There's also the fact that Rebecca was in her late 20's and Jack in his mid 30's.  Presumably, she was employed for the better part of the last decade and Jack for longer than that.  Jack is a senior construction foreman, he should've been making a decent salary with benefits for years and, like most married couples their age in that era, they'd probably already own a home.  The show did a very poor job explaining why they were so financially limited. 

 

ETA: I rented my first apartment, in Columbus, Ohio; in 1977.  We got a 3 bedroom place, 2 baths, walking distance to campus (higher priced than non-walkable places) and paid $265 a month.  Next year, paid $200 a month for a 2 bedroom when one of our room mates moved out.  If, as a self supporting college student, I could afford those prices; it doesn't make sense why Jack and Rebecca found $200 a month so tough to come by nor why they had to settle for a 6th floor walkup which should've been a lot cheaper than we saw.  Dramatic license, I guess.

Edited January 12, 2017 by doodlebug

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, MsChicklet said:

Yep. Drive-thru health care. MrChicklet had three stents put in and was sent home the next morning.

A lot of that is they've learned that people recover faster if they do go home and resume activity.  And that a lot of surgeries are less invasive.  Did they put the stents in through a leg artery?  

[MsChicklet]

It went in through the leg. My concern was monitoring more than anything else. 

[mojoween]

Now that you mention it, I've always said a gallon of ice cream without even considering that the cartons we got were definitely not big enough to hold a gallon of ice cream.  

Ice cream does go bad if left too long.  Freezer burn is the WORST.

[doodlebug]

Here's a chart of average family incomes over the years.  In 1979, Jack's salary would've meant about 80% of US households would've made more money.  That seems low for a construction foreman.

I got my first 'real' job as an intern in 1982 and made $17,000 which seemed like a lot since I'd been a student up to that time.  However, I remember attending my high school reunion in that era and that the vast majority of my classmates, even those without a college degree, were making far more than I was and many owned homes, etc.

http://www.stateofworkingamerica.org/chart/swa-income-table-2-1-average-family-income/

Edited January 12, 2017 by doodlebug

[Mrs. DuRona]

Jumping in on the first apartment thread... my first apartment was a very spacious efficiency just outside of Monroeville, PA (technically, address was Pittsburgh, but I could see the mall from the top floor of the building).  There was a pool, weight room, resident run library, storage units, closed-circuit tv for the front lobby, etc.  I lived there from 2000-2003, my rent was under $500.  So, a 2bd in Pgh proper for $200 in 1980 seems about right.

...Also, it makes sense that, sure they could probably afford the apartment no problem just the 2 of them, but with the added expenses a kid(s) bring in, they were probably worried about affording things after said offspring pops out.  

[teapot]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:29 PM, Driad said:

This is not on the Boston NBC affiliate's schedule. Does anyone know when it will air here?

oh wow, okay I was wondering why my season reporting didn't pick it up!  I watched it yesterday on demand

[kili]

Quote

There's also the fact that Rebecca was in her late 20's and Jack in his mid 30's.  Presumably, she was employed for the better part of the last decade and Jack for longer than that.  Jack is a senior construction foreman, he should've been making a decent salary with benefits for years and, like most married couples their age in that era, they'd probably already own a home.  The show did a very poor job explaining why they were so financially limited. 

The show is an onion. It may be that they did a terrible job figuring out the finances or it may be later revealed to us why these two have no money.

Maybe Jack and Rebecca really were gamblers. Maybe Jack and Rebecca just finished spending a couple of years travelling the world.   Maybe Jack's Mom got sick and they used all their money paying her medical bills (weren't medical bills in the US the number one reason for bankruptcies before insurance reforms?). Maybe they made some terrible investments (Enron-like). Wasn't that about the time when all those Savings and Loans went under? And wasn't that a time when mortgage rates were insane? Double-digits?

Quote

I went back and rewatched out of curiosity and I think it was just an overkill depiction of a gut job remodel.

I've heard that type of a reno referred to as a "down to the studs reno". Around these parts, you have to pay about $50K in developers fees if you tear down a house and rebuild (and you might be additionally charged with building sidewalks or re-paving the road or any number of things the city might want somebody to pay for). If you do a "down to the studs reno" you don't have to pay those fees, so you save a lot of money. Some renos go even further. The rules are so stretched that if you keep one exterior wall and build a new house incorporating it, the job is considered a "reno".

The exterior of the house looked like a 50s bungalow. I think it was  a reno (and maybe they were sticking on a second floor).

[3 is enough]

My first full time job was in Montreal in 1979.  $215 a week for a lab technician with an associate's degree.  DH and I got married in 1980, and our rent was $255/month for a heated 2 bedroom apartment.  Prices always run a bit higher in Canada so those figures quoted on the show seem about right to me.

As far as the hospital stays go, unless you have a complicated procedure that requires constant monitoring after the fact, you are safer going home asap. The chances of contracting some sort of infection in a hospital are extremely high.  My DD is an internal medicine resident and she has told me that hospitals are pretty much the filthiest places there are.

Edited January 12, 2017 by 3 is enough

[luna1122]

Y'all's memories are impressive. I have no idea what my rent or house payments in the 80s, or what I made. None. I do know that no matter what it was, whether I lived alone, with roommates or my (ex) husband, I never ever ever had enough money, not even for just me, (even tho I always worked, often two jobs,) let alone if I'd suddenly found I was having a litter of 3 babies. I never had a gambling problem or a drug problem or a shopping addiction. I was just poor. I'm not quite as poor anymore, and live with my S.O, and our condo mortage is lower than most rents around my parts these days, but we still never have quite enough money and I can't imagine having to support offspring. Some of us just aren't good with money planning and being grownups and making significant salaries, maybe, I don't know. So I quite empathize with Jack and Rebecca.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 1/11/2017 at 8:42 AM, Haleth said:

I too knew immediately the "money pit" was going to be their house.  But I didn't get why Jack felt he couldn't give his father the real reason for wanting the money.  It was better for his father to think he was a failure, groveling for the cash, rather than needing it for his family?  I know he didn't want his awful father in their lives but that was a big risk.  His father could have slammed the door in his face if the money was to pay gambling debts.  It's more likely (with strings, I get it) if he knew the real reason.

There are some bad parents out there.  There are some abusive people who want to see you fail, and resent you when you succeed.  I believe this is how Jack sees his father.   Also I think some parents really want to be needed.  Also I agree, when you know your parent is that much of an asshole you don't want your kids around him/her or hear their potential criticisms/judgment.  Could be so many reasons.  

Maybe Jack's father enjoys being stuck in a certain dynamic with him.  "You're a screw up, like your mother, then I have to save your stupid ass."  I don't know.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[DoubleUTeeEff]

2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Oh, wanted to add, I loved how Rebecca's mom blamed Jack for the triplets.  Uh, honey, since apparently it was 3 separate eggs that got fertilized (no mention of any baby being identical to another), that's on Rebecca.

I know I keep my ovaries in line and only allow one egg to be released at a time!  ; )

But yeah, hilarious and frustrating that Rebecca's mom (does she have a name?) loves to throw blame at Jack for everything.   

[Driad]

Jack and Rebecca would not have to finish the whole house before they moved in. Maybe just roof, exterior walls, one bathroom, and enough of the kitchen to make do. It would be months before the babies could crawl enough to get into things. My parents and first toddler moved into a house with an unfinished second floor. By the time we kids were big enough to need rooms, they could afford to finish the second floor.

[Hanahope]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

 

Here's a chart of average family incomes over the years.  In 1979, Jack's salary would've meant about 80% of US households would've made more money.  That seems low for a construction foreman.

 

That chart is sure interesting.  Note from 1947 to 1979,  all fifths essentially doubled their income.  but from 1979 to 2010, the bottom 2 fifths didn't increase at all, the middle went up a little, the fourth a bit better and the fifth went up by nearly the same amount as from 47-79.  Real good demonstration how middle class earnings stagnated after Reagan and his failed "trickle down" economics, compared to wealthy earnings, and the poor didn't improve at all.  and yeah, the chart shows Jack was really underpaid.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Here's a chart of average family incomes over the years.  In 1979, Jack's salary would've meant about 80% of US households would've made more money.  That seems low for a construction foreman.

I got my first 'real' job as an intern in 1982 and made $17,000 which seemed like a lot since I'd been a student up to that time.  However, I remember attending my high school reunion in that era and that the vast majority of my classmates, even those without a college degree, were making far more than I was and many owned homes, etc.

http://www.stateofworkingamerica.org/chart/swa-income-table-2-1-average-family-income/

I think pay is so heavily affected by region that you can't really look at national averages and tell much.  I would expect Pittsburgh to be a lower cost, lower paying city.  That site I linked to was just Pittsburgh incomes and it showed they were doing better than the average there in 1980, but not much.  

$17k doesn't sound bad.  That would've been about 2.5X the minimum wage in the state I was in at the time.  Not great but getting by.  

[Cardie]

7 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Either William is dead at the end of the season or February sweeps.

They're the same thing. This show wraps up its season in February, I believe.

The salaries on that chart have all been converted to 2011 dollars. In 1975, with a Ph.D., I got my first full-time, tenure-track college professor job with an $11, 500 salary. If Jack is pulling down $17,000 four years later as a construction foreman, I'm jealous.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Cardie

[topanga]

2 hours ago, MsChicklet said:

Yep. Drive-thru health care. MrChicklet had three stents put in and was sent home the next morning.

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

A lot of that is they've learned that people recover faster if they do go home and resume activity.  And that a lot of surgeries are less invasive.  Did they put the stents in through a leg artery?  

MsChicklet, as long as you're aware that the doctors weren't the ones making that decision. Hospitals have insurance companies breathing own their necks and threatening to cut off payment if doctors can't find a life-threatening reason to keep someone in the hospital. It kinda sucks. 

And I agree that it's often good to send people home earlier, but not always. 

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

 

I recently found an old checkbook register from 1984 and my rent was $280 for a one bedroom in a small midwestern city.  It was nice but not plush. 

 

You have a checkbook register from 1984? I'm impressed. Or should I be worried about you?  

 

13 hours ago, breezy424 said:

The best part of the episode was the triplets in the waiting room.  So great.  This is what I want to see.  This is the history I want to learn about. Their relationship.

I agree. Just to add that I loved Randall's facial expressions when Kevin was going on about his Olivia/Sloan dilemma.

[Enigma X]

Color me whatever you color a person who struggled up until their late 30s. Shit happens. 20/20 is definitely hindsight for some of us, even those of us who thought we were making good decisions at the time. I received my bachelor's degree in my 20s and struggled after. Recently, in my late thirties, I went back for my Master's. Although now I have a good paying job at 41, guess what? Due to student loans I am still struggling. With that said, I feel if you put important life milsetones on hold until you stop struggling you may never get them. 

[kili]

Quote

Oh, wanted to add, I loved how Rebecca's mom blamed Jack for the triplets.  Uh, honey, since apparently it was 3 separate eggs that got fertilized (no mention of any baby being identical to another), that's on Rebecca.

To be pedantic, it is possible that Kevin and Kyle were identical twins, so Jack might have been partly "to blame". Kevin and Kate are definitely fraternal twins, so there were at least two eggs in play.

Growing up, I knew a set of triplets where two were identical twins and their third sister was not (you couldn't tell the first two apart and they looked like their Mom, while the third triplet looked just like their Dad and was a good 4 inches taller).

Blaming anybody for natural triplets is ridiculous. Rebecca's Mom is a real prize. Living with that woman would have been a nightmare for Rebecca and Jack and can you imagine how the triplets would have been impacted? (2 years can easily turn into 4 when your self-esteem is eroded).

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

I have no idea what my rent or house payments in the 80s,

I remember my rent in 1985 was free, due to being in the womb. They did start to charge me in child labor around '89 but I am positive I couldn't have afforded a 6th floor walkup. I still love seeing how Rebecca and Jack dress because they really do get it exactly right sometimes, based on photos of my mom and dad in the early to mid 80's. 

I re-watched last night because I missed nerdy Randall and his gluten free observation. I want to marry him. And Beth. Sister wives.

[Driad]

If they lived in the sixth floor walkup, they wouldn't need to take the babies outside just for fresh air (if there was fresh air in Pittsburgh then).  Jack could build baby cages outside the windows.  Or maybe not.

[PRgal]

51 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

I remember my rent in 1985 was free, due to being in the womb. They did start to charge me in child labor around '89 but I am positive I couldn't have afforded a 6th floor walkup. I still love seeing how Rebecca and Jack dress because they really do get it exactly right sometimes, based on photos of my mom and dad in the early to mid 80's. 

I re-watched last night because I missed nerdy Randall and his gluten free observation. I want to marry him. And Beth. Sister wives.

You got an allowance for chores when you were four?  My parents didn't start paying me until I was seven.  :D

Edited January 12, 2017 by PRgal

[topanga]

15 minutes ago, Driad said:

If they lived in the sixth floor walkup, they wouldn't need to take the babies outside just for fresh air (if there was fresh air in Pittsburgh then).  Jack could build baby cages outside the windows.  Or maybe not.

Ha! That's some Michael Jackson Blanket sh*t right there. 

 

52 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Color me whatever you color a person who struggled up until their late 30s. Shit happens. 20/20 is definitely hindsight for some of us, even those of us who thought we were making good decisions at the time. I received my bachelor's degree in my 20s and struggled after. Recently, in my late thirties, I went back for my Master's. Although now I have a good paying job at 41, guess what? Due to student loans I am still struggling. With that said, I feel if you put important life milsetones on hold until you stop struggling you may never get them. 

And it sounds like Jack and Rebecca were trying to start a family without help from their parents. I know we're responsible for our own finances and should be wise about our own spending and saving, but without some kind of financial safety net, it can be hard. My husband and I were pretty much on our own since college, not because our mothers were horrible. They just didn't have any money. And this was fine when I was single and childless. But when my husband and I got married, we paid for every dime of the wedding ourselves and we didn't get a financial wedding gift from our parents to help with our first home or anything else.  Boo-friggin-hoo, I know. But if there were months where we struggled, there was no one to help us out financially. In fact, our parents would come to us trying to borrow money. 

So between our lack of familial support and our own irresponsibility, we didn't have a lot of money in our 30s. (We don't have a lot of money now that we're in our 40s, truth be told). So I can sympathize with Jack and Rebecca.

[BoogieBurns]

4 minutes ago, PRgal said:

You got an allowance for chores when you were four?  My parents didn't start paying me until I was seven.  :D

No, I meant they let me live there for free if I did child labor. I never got an allowance. Is there a reparations situation I should look into? I missed 11 years of allowance?! That should at least get me 4 acres and a mule!

[Dowel Jones]

Oh, for the days when I thought $200/month was a lot to pay for a rental.  Now you have to pay that much just to drive by the place. 

I would like to point out to Jack that, with the bedrooms on the second floor of his new house, they will still be dragging infants up and down a flight of stairs all day, every day.  And you have only six months to finish the remodel, working on your own free time?

The question was raised early on about the mention of people dying on the show and the foreshadowing of it.  I seem to remember that the play that Kevin is still rehearsing is about a man conversing with his dead wife, which would account for the dialogue we heard.  I got that same feeling when Jack is driving around the city, but I realized that he's present at the maternity ward later on, so, relax, okay?

How much did Dr. Major Dad get paid for his appearance on the show?  Nice work when you can get it.

Yes, Toby, it was just an arrhythmia, not a heart attack.  That's like saying it's just soldiers shooting at each other, not combat.

My first thought when Jack slipped his wedding ring back outside his dad's house was, does his dad even know he's married, or was he trying to imply that they were separated because of the the gambling habit?  It seemed like a strange thing to do.

[DrSpaceman73]

I got the impression he was buying the house unfinished for a discount price from his boss and planned on finishing it himself.  No idea if he paid cash or if he had a down payment and financed it. 

I didn't mind him at first, but a little Toby goes a long way........halfway through this episode I started wondering if the writers made the correct decision with his "arrhythmia" story. 

I assumed Jack took his ring off because he does not want his dad to know that he is married or that he has kids/is having kids.  He doesn't want his dad around his wife or children, probably for good reason from what we saw. 

I guess this was 40 years ago, but those salaries and the rent did seem awful low.

However, even for ONE kid, who rents on the 6th floor of a walk up?  That seemed dumb. 

Kevin.....wow.......he sticks his foot in his mouth so much.  "Its the right thing to do"  That is why you stay with your girlfriend?  Did he see her there and purposely sabotage himself and the relationship by letting her hear that?

"Its the right thing to do"......didn't that used to be the slogan for oatmeal that Wilford Brimley would peddle? 

[OtterMommy]

I was re-watching this episode again (I've realized that I need at least 2 viewings of this show to get everything) and here are some of my thoughts....

* I actually don't care about Jack and Rebecca's finances and living situation.  That whole plot made little to no impression on me, and that's the first time that's happened for me in this show.  I usually find myself drawn into the Jack and Rebecca story lines first.  This time....nothing.

* Regarding Rebecca's lunch with her mom.  So, if you order a ceasar salad but leave off the dressing and anchovies (and aren't the anchovies in the dressing?), aren't you just left with a plate of lettuce and, maybe, a few croutons?  I thought that whole things was strange and overly-telling for this show.  Also, the mom did say Diet Coke.  Actually, she said Diet....coke.  Yeah, it's an anachronism, but I'm sure Coca-cola paid for it, so whatever.

* I was not bothered by Rebecca not being with the Big Three in the waiting room.  Kevin and Randall were obviously only there to comfort Kate (I don't think either has any sort of closeness with Toby.  Kevin always seemed borderline annoyed with him, and Toby DOES owe Randall a new coffee table...).  If she was seeking comfort, it makes sense that she wouldn't invite Rebecca, with whom she has a somewhat stressful relationship.

* The whole thing with Olivia returning was just...weird.  And badly written.  If  an actress runs out on a show--and her contract--for over a month, there is no way a director would welcome her back, no matter how big of a dick he was (and that director WAS a dick after his speech at the beginning to Sloane and Kevin).  I get that Kevin might have been a bit starstruck, but Sloane also had every right--and realistically WOULD have--to send Sloane running when she first showed up.  It felt like they wanted to do something--set up conflict between Sloane and Kevin, whose relationship start was going a little too well--and they just didn't know how to do it.  That being said, I have a fear that we haven't seen the last of Olivia yet.

[Mrs. DuRona]

1 minute ago, OtterMommy said:

So, if you order a ceasar salad but leave off the dressing and anchovies (and aren't the anchovies in the dressing?), aren't you just left with a plate of lettuce and, maybe, a few croutons?  I thought that whole things was strange and overly-telling for this show.

I worked at a restaurant and would have people order caeser salad, no dressing (not even on the side), and I was like "plate of lettuce, OK!"  People are weird.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I was re-watching this episode again (I've realized that I need at least 2 viewings of this show to get everything) and here are some of my thoughts....

* I actually don't care about Jack and Rebecca's finances and living situation.  That whole plot made little to no impression on me, and that's the first time that's happened for me in this show.  I usually find myself drawn into the Jack and Rebecca story lines first.  This time....nothing.

* Regarding Rebecca's lunch with her mom.  So, if you order a ceasar salad but leave off the dressing and anchovies (and aren't the anchovies in the dressing?), aren't you just left with a plate of lettuce and, maybe, a few croutons?  I thought that whole things was strange and overly-telling for this show.  Also, the mom did say Diet Coke.  Actually, she said Diet....coke.  Yeah, it's an anachronism, but I'm sure Coca-cola paid for it, so whatever.

* I was not bothered by Rebecca not being with the Big Three in the waiting room.  Kevin and Randall were obviously only there to comfort Kate (I don't think either has any sort of closeness with Toby.  Kevin always seemed borderline annoyed with him, and Toby DOES owe Randall a new coffee table...).  If she was seeking comfort, it makes sense that she wouldn't invite Rebecca, with whom she has a somewhat stressful relationship.

* The whole thing with Olivia returning was just...weird.  And badly written.  If  an actress runs out on a show--and her contract--for over a month, there is no way a director would welcome her back, no matter how big of a dick he was (and that director WAS a dick after his speech at the beginning to Sloane and Kevin).  I get that Kevin might have been a bit starstruck, but Sloane also had every right--and realistically WOULD have--to send Sloane running when she first showed up.  It felt like they wanted to do something--set up conflict between Sloane and Kevin, whose relationship start was going a little too well--and they just didn't know how to do it.  That being said, I have a fear that we haven't seen the last of Olivia yet.

I think the coffee table didn't even break!  It was a lovely tumble.  

11 minutes ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

I worked at a restaurant and would have people order caeser salad, no dressing (not even on the side), and I was like "plate of lettuce, OK!"  People are weird.

Yeah.  It'd be a plate of romaine with some parmesan and croutons.  The anchovies are in the dressing in every caesar I've ever seen and in the original.  

I always laughed at the order of a virgin margarita.  That's a glass of bar sour mix, which is like a sugary/lemony/soury syrup.  A virgin margarita in Mexico would be some ice with fresh squeezed lime juice.  

I was scratching my head at "It's the right thing to do, sometimes you do that instead of what you want", but then figured it was Kevin's way of trying to teach Olivia a lesson about how you treat people, or else let her down easy?  As in, "you're clearly hotter (not that I agree) but I can't go back to you because you wronged us all, but I would've wanted to if you had behaved better." 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Guest