S01.E05: Golden Era

[Brattinella]

Well, yeah.  I thought it was common knowledge.

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, Brattinella said:

Well, yeah.  I thought it was common knowledge.

I didn't know. I tend to assume that a man married to a woman and has children with her is a heterosexual unless they come out and say otherwise. 

[bilgistic]

8 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Sounds a  lot like the US military to me, actually. Limiting women's health care resources in every way.

Women's healthcare resources are limited by the U.S. federal and individual state governments. Furthermore, individual companies can choose to not cover certain things (birth control, for example) with their company-issued health insurance if the company claims a religious affiliation. Scientology is hardly the only organization barring healthcare for women, not that it excuses them.

[SiobhanJW]

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

I didn't know. I tend to assume that a man married to a woman and has children with her is a heterosexual unless they come out and say otherwise. 

One of the rumors I read about his reasons for not leaving the church is that he had spoken about being gay and/or having relationships with men in his auditing sessions and they are basically blackmailing him. Obviously this is rumor, but with all the other crazy shit they pull I wouldn't be surprised. 

[Brattinella]

The thing about John T is: if he is gay, who cares?  Everyone will still love him.  I do hope he understands this and isn't being blackmailed.

[SiobhanJW]

47 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

The thing about John T is: if he is gay, who cares?  Everyone will still love him.  I do hope he understands this and isn't being blackmailed.

Completely agree. 

[MsTree]

We all agree JT's sexuality doesn't matter, but he doesn't know that...and/or he's being brainwashed that it would matter to fans. Hence the silent denial.

[Lizzing]

13 hours ago, juliet73 said:

Louisianna
102 Huggins Rd
Lafayette

3524 Canal St. New Orleans

They also have a mission in Baton Rouge that they bought 2 years ago, giving them much more space than the nondescript office building they occupied for decades before.  Per the tax assessor's site, that property is tax exempt.  They also have a narconon "treatment center" in Denham Springs (smallish town just a bit down the road from BR) and they paid just shy of $8K in taxes in 2015 on that.  That particular narconon center was recently sued by the mother of a guy sent there for rehab (because it's not really rehab nor medically sound/supervised), so I hope it gets some negative press soon.

[Neurochick]

23 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

This list may be a bit out of date. They just opened a new center in NYC in Harlem http://patch.com/new-york/harlem/photos-see-inside-harlem-s-new-scientology-church-community-center

Interesting.  There was another one in Harlem a few years ago but it closed (I guess they couldn't pay the rent).  I know where this one is, thankfully it's kind of out of the way which means I don't even have to walk by it. 

[schroob]

I see the non-children policy a little differently. From a business standpoint, yes these children would provide them with a lifetime of free to cheap labor that they never needed to pay back and a population that would not only grow but continue to stay indoctrinated. 

However, in any business situation you have to look at liabilities and children are a liability. While the government will not step in with abuse towards adults because of 'church policies and practices,' they absolutely will and do when children are involved. I guarantee you that the Department of Children & Family Services and state laws & requirements were at the heart of this policy---if DCF showed up at their door not only can they not be turned away easily, there is a report that will last a lifetime. 

Scientology does not like bad PR. 

I think children are also a liability because it's one thing for someone to abuse you but it's another when it's your child. I'd think they wouldn't want the possible conflict of loyalty to Co$ vs child.

[walnutqueen]

11 hours ago, MsTree said:

We all agree JT's sexuality doesn't matter, but he doesn't know that...and/or he's being brainwashed that it would matter to fans. Hence the silent denial.

It may matter very much to his wife, though; perhaps this is something he takes into consideration.

[jacksgirl]

Love, love, love this show. Quick question.  The Headleys who made pennies working at CO$ for years obviously also had no college education since contracts were signed when they were children. What are these people doing for money now? That was a nice suburban home they lived in and with 3 young kids, how did that happen? They've been in the real world less than 12 years. Am happy they are living a good life, but how?

[iMonrey]

Quote

Which religions keep members prisoners, and force them to leave their family behind? 

I think you are making a dangerous comparison. This is a cult designed to brainwash and mind control people for the purpose of making boatloads of money and for power.

Leah herself pointed out that nobody is going to actively search for evidence that their belief system is a fraud. So when people wonder why or how Scientologist can believe the "crazy" stuff they believe, the same could be said for any religion. In that respect, it is no different from any other belief system. It has its loyal adherents, and they are not interested in listening to, much less looking for, arguments against that belief system. People seldom question their own religious beliefs because it's a matter of security. 

So yeah - obviously a lot of mainstream religions don't engage in the kind of abusive behavior the CO$ does, but the basic point is that a stubborn refusal to question one's own beliefs or listen to alternative viewpoints is dangerous, period. 

[Twiz44]

I have lived in Clearwater since 1977.  They own a lot of property.  There are many doctors and lawyers and other professionals who are known Scientologists and have practices in downtown Clearwater.  I don't quite know how it works as to who "owns" the property or the "practice" for that matter.  It seems to me that the CO$ "owns" their parishioners so does this mean they "own" the businesses, too?

[Kostgard]

1 hour ago, jacksgirl said:

Love, love, love this show. Quick question.  The Headleys who made pennies working at CO$ for years obviously also had no college education since contracts were signed when they were children. What are these people doing for money now? That was a nice suburban home they lived in and with 3 young kids, how did that happen? They've been in the real world less than 12 years. Am happy they are living a good life, but how?

That's always my question, but in the case of Marc, he was learning/utilizing a lot of multimedia production skills while in the Sea Org, and those would easily translate to a job on the outside (and one that probably pays pretty well).

His father was not in the CoS, so maybe he helped them out until they got jobs and their own place. Same with Amy Scobee. I noticed that the guy they interviewed last week (Tom?) was living in a nice, but modest apartment when someone his age usually owns a home. He may have had less of a support system on the outside and had a tougher time landing a job with a more limited skill set than Marc. It must be remarkably difficult for those with no one on the outside, making it that much harder to leave.

[Bitsy]

3 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

It may matter very much to his wife, though; perhaps this is something he takes into consideration.

My thought exactly.  His sexuality, her sexuality, and the nature of their marriage are likely much more complicated than "he's gay and it's all a sham".  I can't imagine either of them would want to be faced with a bunch of intimate questions.

I don't think Travolta has really been involved in Scientology for a long time.  Perhaps it just escaped my notice, but I don't recall seeing him at events or socializing with other Scientologists (other than Kirstie Alley) in a long, long time.  My guess is he's got an arrangement with the Church that as long as he officially remains a Scientologist and says good things about the Church when he's asked, then they will leave him alone and not make him participate.

[maraleia]

There's one in Chicago at 3011 N Lincoln Ave near Wrigley Field and the gayborhood Lakeview aka Boystown which makes me laugh. It's a hole in the wall place and I never see anyone inside there.

[MsTree]

9 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

It may matter very much to his wife, though; perhaps this is something he takes into consideration.

As if she didn't know...it must be nice to live in a constant state of denial.

6 hours ago, Bitsy said:

My thought exactly.  His sexuality, her sexuality, and the nature of their marriage are likely much more complicated than "he's gay and it's all a sham".  I can't imagine either of them would want to be faced with a bunch of intimate questions.

Only Kiki Dee and Elton John would know....but interestingly enough, it was never an issue for either one of them.

[DeeReynolds]

When I hear these stories of Miscavige beating up his followers, my mind goes to the scene in Elf when Peter Dinklage goes across the table to attack Will Farrell. Just me? Sad but true!

[BradandJanet]

15 hours ago, Bitsy said:

My thought exactly.  His sexuality, her sexuality, and the nature of their marriage are likely much more complicated than "he's gay and it's all a sham".  I can't imagine either of them would want to be faced with a bunch of intimate questions.

I don't think Travolta has really been involved in Scientology for a long time.  Perhaps it just escaped my notice, but I don't recall seeing him at events or socializing with other Scientologists (other than Kirstie Alley) in a long, long time.  My guess is he's got an arrangement with the Church that as long as he officially remains a Scientologist and says good things about the Church when he's asked, then they will leave him alone and not make him participate.

In The Underground Bunker, Tony Ortega's blog, an inside source discounts the idea that Travolta stays because he fears that details about his sex life will spill:  “When he got the Tarantino movie, I think someone had been working with John on an admin scale to help him work his career out," our source says, referring to an L. Ron Hubbard concept about how to organize work. “So he’s been convinced that his successes have come from L. Ron Hubbard, and he keeps himself in a bubble. He’s convinced that every time his career has had some big success, it’s because he was using some kind of Scientology. And that’s a really hard mindset to get out of."

My sense is that COS doesn't torment big stars like Travolta the way it does common folk. This setup may work for John, especially since he remains popular and employable. The only thing being a Scientologist is costing him is money, and he's got plenty of that. 

[Bitsy]

I'd forgotten that both Kelly and John both supposedly coped with Jett's death by doing a lot of auditing, but I do think his participation is mostly on his own terms (unlike non-famous members).

[Meadow]

1 hour ago, BradandJanet said:

The only thing being a Scientologist is costing him is money,..."

And the life of his son.

[Brattinella]

Was Jett Travolta denied medical care?

[Neurochick]

20 hours ago, Kostgard said:

I noticed that the guy they interviewed last week (Tom?) was living in a nice, but modest apartment when someone his age usually owns a home. He may have had less of a support system on the outside and had a tougher time landing a job with a more limited skill set than Marc. It must be remarkably difficult for those with no one on the outside, making it that much harder to leave.

Maybe it was a condo.

OT:  I don't get this "you have to own your own home" stuff.  Many years ago I owned a home and was so glad to get rid of it; every time something goes wrong, it's on you and if you're not handy, then make sure you have plenty of $$ on hand at all times.  I don't see why it's so necessary to own a home, especially if you don't have children. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by Neurochick

[CofCinci]

55 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

Was Jett Travolta denied medical care?

Yes.  Autism/"Kawasaki" aside, he suffered from seizures (not associate with Autism or Kawasaki).  They didn't give him seizure meds regularly and would stop/start Depakote, which is very dangerous.  They tried to treat/manage it the $cientology way.  Jett had a seizure and hit his head while falling.  The family/Co$ handlers waited an amount of time (disputed lengths reported -- but it certainly wasn't instantly like most parents/caregivers) before calling for EMS.  Then, instead of using local hospital near resort, they wanted to fire up Travolta's plane and take him to Florida - wasting even more time.  Travolta refused to send his son to the hospital, which is how local EMS were able to blackmail him (after being paid off).  The first responder reported that Jett was already in state of rigor mortis by the time they were called.  Unfortunately, they got too greedy and Travolta no longer wanted to pay.  Travolta sued but then pulled out (spending $$$$ in legal fees in process) when case was to go to trial.

[Brattinella]

3 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Yes.  Autism/"Kawasaki" aside, he suffered from seizures (not associate with Autism or Kawasaki).  They didn't give him seizure meds regularly and would stop/start Depakote, which is very dangerous.  They tried to treat/manage it the $cientology way.  Jett had a seizure and hit his head while falling.  The family/Co$ handlers waited an amount of time (disputed lengths reported -- but it certainly wasn't instantly like most parents/caregivers) before calling for EMS.  Then, instead of using local hospital near resort, they wanted to fire up Travolta's plane and take him to Florida - wasting even more time.  Travolta refused to send his son to the hospital, which is how local EMS were able to blackmail him (after being paid off).  The first responder reported that Jett was already in state of rigor mortis by the time they were called.  Unfortunately, they got too greedy and Travolta no longer wanted to pay.  Travolta sued but then pulled out (spending $$$$ in legal fees in process) when case was to go to trial.

WOW what a horror story! :(

[PrincessSteel]

I could watch this show endlessly, and I have now read every ex-Scientologist memoir that I could load onto my Kindle, as well as Bare Faced Messiah. I'm now going to read Stephen King to come down off all that...Happy 2017, all!

[BradandJanet]

31 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Yes.  Autism/"Kawasaki" aside, he suffered from seizures (not associate with Autism or Kawasaki).  They didn't give him seizure meds regularly and would stop/start Depakote, which is very dangerous.  They tried to treat/manage it the $cientology way.  Jett had a seizure and hit his head while falling.  The family/Co$ handlers waited an amount of time (disputed lengths reported -- but it certainly wasn't instantly like most parents/caregivers) before calling for EMS.  Then, instead of using local hospital near resort, they wanted to fire up Travolta's plane and take him to Florida - wasting even more time.  Travolta refused to send his son to the hospital, which is how local EMS were able to blackmail him (after being paid off).  The first responder reported that Jett was already in state of rigor mortis by the time they were called.  Unfortunately, they got too greedy and Travolta no longer wanted to pay.  Travolta sued but then pulled out (spending $$$$ in legal fees in process) when case was to go to trial.

While autism can't be "cured," Jett was obviously diagnosed with other problems. Kelly later admitted that. Where did this information about the way the John and Kelly handle the medications come from? Also, the EMTs were paid off and then blackmailed the Travoltas? Were they paid off on the spot? The police must have been there too. 

Were John and Kelly in intermittent conflict with the Church about the treatment? If so, they were drifting back and forth on their beliefs.  If this report is accurate and can be substantiated, then Jett's death is on par with behaviors of other religious groups who withhold life-saving medical treatments from minors who then suffer and die. The parents should be prosecuted.

[CofCinci]

2 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

While autism can't be "cured," Jett was obviously diagnosed with other problems. Kelly later admitted that. Where did this information about the way the John and Kelly handle the medications come from? Also, the EMTs were paid off and then blackmailed the Travoltas? Were they paid off on the spot? The police must have been there too. 

Were John and Kelly in intermittent conflict with the Church about the treatment? If so, they were drifting back and forth on their beliefs.  If this report is accurate and can be substantiated, then Jett's death is on par with behaviors of other religious groups who withhold life-saving medical treatments from minors who then suffer and die. The parents should be prosecuted.

Google the court case in the Bahamas and you'll get the name of the EMTs. You can read their interviews. 

[BradandJanet]

2 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Google the court case in the Bahamas and you'll get the name of the EMTs. You can read their interviews. 

Thank you!

[Brattinella]

3 hours ago, PrincessSteel said:

I could watch this show endlessly, and I have now read every ex-Scientologist memoir that I could load onto my Kindle, as well as Bare Faced Messiah. I'm now going to read Stephen King to come down off all that...Happy 2017, all!

I intend to read all of those memoirs!  You wouldn't have a list of the ones you read, would you?

[Maelstrom]

7 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

In The Underground Bunker, Tony Ortega's blog, an inside source discounts the idea that Travolta stays because he fears that details about his sex life will spill:  “When he got the Tarantino movie, I think someone had been working with John on an admin scale to help him work his career out," our source says, referring to an L. Ron Hubbard concept about how to organize work. “So he’s been convinced that his successes have come from L. Ron Hubbard, and he keeps himself in a bubble. He’s convinced that every time his career has had some big success, it’s because he was using some kind of Scientology. And that’s a really hard mindset to get out of."

I believe Leah said this exact sentiment in her book more than once, being taught that every good thing in her life came from Scientology, and every bad thing came from her being a bad person/doing bad things/not using Scientology correctly. What a mindf*ck, right?

 

32 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

I intend to read all of those memoirs!  You wouldn't have a list of the ones you read, would you?

Check out the thread Scientology Resources, where posters have kindly compiled all books, websites, etc, into one handy list.

[Brattinella]

25 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Check out the thread Scientology Resources, where posters have kindly compiled all books, websites, etc, into one handy list.

Thank you SO MUCH! I missed that thread!

[Wings]

Just read about Jett's death. Thank you!  I missed all of that when it went down.  Speechless.  

[MaryPatShelby]

Shallow note:  I love Leah's reading glasses. SO flattering.  Sigh.  I wish I had a stylist.

[abstractstuff]

Rinder is getting off clean.. If everyone wants to play the brainwash game, then shouldn't Miscavige be let off then? I mean, he was alone with Hubbard as a teenage boy, and those who know.... I mean.. Ridner is getting off way too easily. 

[trow125]

Rinder has a conscience -- he knows he wronged others and he's spent the past several years trying to atone for it, including his participation on Leah's show (which has led to increased harassment from the "church"). I believe DM is an out-and-out sociopath with no empathy and no conscience.

[Maizie131]

24 minutes ago, trow125 said:

Rinder has a conscience -- he knows he wronged others and he's spent the past several years trying to atone for it, including his participation on Leah's show (which has led to increased harassment from the "church"). I believe DM is an out-and-out sociopath with no empathy and no conscience.

trow125 - Just wanted to thank you for your post and putting quotes around "church."  Every time I see it it capitalized and w/o quotes I get pissed off.  Let's call it what it truly is --- a cult that's responsible for devastating countless lives. 

[Island girl]

I cannot fault Travolta for wanting to fly his son to Florida. I live in the same place the Travoltas had their condos. It is a 40 minute drive to the only hospital on the island which is not equipped to deal with severe trauma patients - most are air lifted to Nassau. Since we have a private airport on property, it would likely have been faster to fly Jett to Fort Lauderdale or West Palm. In any case, it's a moot point since the child died immediately. The Travoltas were extremely nice people and took good care of Jett -a sweet young man with the mind of a 4 year old child. I'm not sure whether he was autistic or just mentally handicapped. He died as a result of a tragic accident, not due to any lack of medication or inattention of his parents/caregiver. As ridiculous and dangerous as Scientology may be, it played no part in Jett's death.

[Glade]

Mike Rinder spent years being imprisoned and physically/emotionally tortured in the 'hole.'  And that is after spending his whole life working 100+ hour weeks being fed slop and paid pennies with nothing to show for it.  He had to lose his entire family (who now follows him around shouting obscenities.)  So I hardly think he went from one comfortable life to another without any consequences. 

But, yes, John Miscavich is a perfect product of the sea org; after decades of abuse and exploitation, he found his way out; by being the head abuser and exploiter, avenging every slight and humiliation he ever received in the church.  Scientology wasn't a great, egalitarian and healthy place under LRH, either. 

[ParadoxLost]

38 minutes ago, Glade said:

Mike Rinder spent years being imprisoned and physically/emotionally tortured in the 'hole.'  And that is after spending his whole life working 100+ hour weeks being fed slop and paid pennies with nothing to show for it.  He had to lose his entire family (who now follows him around shouting obscenities.)  So I hardly think he went from one comfortable life to another without any consequences. 

Based on the timing that most of these executives left, I think that they left because as executives their lives, unlike the rank and file, were somewhat comfortable and that events jolted them out of being comfortable because Miscavige became displeased. 

The creation of the hole and the media going after them via South Park, Rolling Stone, and Anonymous, which would have gotten everyone who failed to stop the bad press sent to the hole, all happened in about a three year span.  Paying attention to the dates that most of the executives interviewed left, including Rinder, it lines up pretty well to new punishments that targeted executives via the hole. 

There are a couple things that make me look sideways at Rinder

1) He claims on the show that he was in the hole for the two years leading up to his defection.  But I've seen articles that quote him as taking responsibility for the Scientology response to South Park. Those two claims can't be simultaneously and entirely true based on timing.  I believe he was in the hole, but if he participated to the South Park response, it wasn't two solid years of captivity as he made it seem like on the show.

2) He protected his son's identity in pictures but no one else in the family.  That sits wrong with me.  Scientology knows who his son is, so he must have a life outside Scientology that Rinder doesn't want to decimate by revealing his son as a Scientologist; but he's fine with flashing his daughter's and brother's.  I assume that means they are more actively harassing him; but from the former head of harassment that seems a tad hypocritical.  Although he likely did his son no favors by telling Scientology that he had hopes his son would defect.

But what tilts me to the side of Rinder having earned some good will is that the easier path would likely have been to shut up in the face of Scientology harassment until they realized they had him cowed and let up on him and his family.  But he decided to speak out and keep speaking and that is more likely to help people leave or avoid getting sucked in in the first place.

[CofCinci]

4 hours ago, Island girl said:

I cannot fault Travolta for wanting to fly his son to Florida. I live in the same place the Travoltas had their condos. It is a 40 minute drive to the only hospital on the island which is not equipped to deal with severe trauma patients - most are air lifted to Nassau. Since we have a private airport on property, it would likely have been faster to fly Jett to Fort Lauderdale or West Palm. In any case, it's a moot point since the child died immediately. The Travoltas were extremely nice people and took good care of Jett -a sweet young man with the mind of a 4 year old child. I'm not sure whether he was autistic or just mentally handicapped. He died as a result of a tragic accident, not due to any lack of medication or inattention of his parents/caregiver. As ridiculous and dangerous as Scientology may be, it played no part in Jett's death.

Welcome to Ptv.  Hope you have a chance to enjoy the rest of the site.

Quote

As ridiculous and dangerous as Scientology may be, it played no part in Jett's death.

The Travoltas did not provide their son with the anti-seizure medicine necessary to prevent his death.  He fell and hit his head during a seizure.  Depakote is 'gobbledygook'.  Their son lacked decision making capacity and Jett needed his parents to plan his treatment.  The Travolta's used Scientology as the basis of how to care for their son.  Scientology played a major role in his death.

LRH on seizures:

Quote

EXPANDED DIANETICS LECTURE No.2
A lecture given to the Flag Dianetic Auditing Team on 7 April 1972.
C7204C07 SO
EXPANDED DIANETICS AND WORD CLEARING

And then people who have epilepsy, which is a type of disease which gives them seizures, are almost always found on some minor drug that prevents them from getting these—they call them petit mal seizures. That’s epilepsy. I don’t care how they call it. Sometimes they really seize and sometimes it’s just slight. One of those, if an epileptic ever took you by the hand and so forth, he’s liable to break every bone in your hand, if he suddenly had a seizure. But the doctors keep them on something to prevent this. It’s just a tranquilizer and they keep them on that one year, year in and year out. And then you come along as an auditor and you try to audit the pc and you tell the pc that he’ll have to go off that drug. And then all of a sudden, why something will happen from someplace or another that the pc will tell the doctor that they have been taken off the drug by the auditor. And the doctor will call up plaintively asking you to please put her back on the drug because she needs this. And you get into a collision between medical treatment and so on. Now I’ve been using a lot of medical words here or chemical words really. Just don’t pay any attention to them because they’re mostly gobbledygook, and there’s an awful lot of gobbledygook words. Gobbledygook just means nonsense chatter, you see. There’s an awful lot of them.

Audit those seizures away, Jett!  Watch out for the sink.

Edited January 3, 2017 by CofCinci

[SiobhanJW]

6 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Based on the timing that most of these executives left, I think that they left because as executives their lives, unlike the rank and file, were somewhat comfortable and that events jolted them out of being comfortable because Miscavige became displeased. 

The creation of the hole and the media going after them via South Park, Rolling Stone, and Anonymous, which would have gotten everyone who failed to stop the bad press sent to the hole, all happened in about a three year span.  Paying attention to the dates that most of the executives interviewed left, including Rinder, it lines up pretty well to new punishments that targeted executives via the hole. 

There are a couple things that make me look sideways at Rinder

1) He claims on the show that he was in the hole for the two years leading up to his defection.  But I've seen articles that quote him as taking responsibility for the Scientology response to South Park. Those two claims can't be simultaneously and entirely true based on timing.  I believe he was in the hole, but if he participated to the South Park response, it wasn't two solid years of captivity as he made it seem like on the show.

2) He protected his son's identity in pictures but no one else in the family.  That sits wrong with me.  Scientology knows who his son is, so he must have a life outside Scientology that Rinder doesn't want to decimate by revealing his son as a Scientologist; but he's fine with flashing his daughter's and brother's.  I assume that means they are more actively harassing him; but from the former head of harassment that seems a tad hypocritical.  Although he likely did his son no favors by telling Scientology that he had hopes his son would defect.

But what tilts me to the side of Rinder having earned some good will is that the easier path would likely have been to shut up in the face of Scientology harassment until they realized they had him cowed and let up on him and his family.  But he decided to speak out and keep speaking and that is more likely to help people leave or avoid getting sucked in in the first place.

Just because he was in the hole doesn't mean they didn't pull him out and use him when they wanted too. They pulled him out to go to London and thats when he escaped. 

In the Going Clear documentary Mike explains that the ex-wives of several of the men that left the "church" who were interviewed on Anderson Cooper to refute their ex-husbands claims were all pulled out of the hole just for that interview. 

[tabloidlover]

Wow!!   I have got to watch this.   I'm in the middle of Marc Headley's book now.

[Proclone]

14 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

2) He protected his son's identity in pictures but no one else in the family.  That sits wrong with me.  Scientology knows who his son is, so he must have a life outside Scientology that Rinder doesn't want to decimate by revealing his son as a Scientologist; but he's fine with flashing his daughter's and brother's.  I assume that means they are more actively harassing him; but from the former head of harassment that seems a tad hypocritical.  Although he likely did his son no favors by telling Scientology that he had hopes his son would defect.

But what tilts me to the side of Rinder having earned some good will is that the easier path would likely have been to shut up in the face of Scientology harassment until they realized they had him cowed and let up on him and his family.  But he decided to speak out and keep speaking and that is more likely to help people leave or avoid getting sucked in in the first place.

IIRC Rinder's ex-wife, daughter and brother have each appeared in public in different places to discredit him.  I don't believe his son has and that would be my guess to why his face is obscured.  If they've already by their own choice bad mouthed their ex-husband/father/brother in public and proclaimed themselves as Scientologists, there seems to be no reason to protect their identities.  If he son hasn't done those things it seems wrong to identify him.  It may not even been Rinder's choice, if his son has never spoken in public about his father or Scientology nor gave permission for his picture to be shown, the producers of the show might been afraid they'd leave themselves open to being sued if they showed his face.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Proclone
typo

[jaync]

Quote

Just because he was in the hole doesn't mean they didn't pull him out and use him when they wanted too.

Yeah, I wasn't understanding why there would be a discrepancy regarding the two events.

Can't wait for tonight's episode!

[estellasmum]

I wasn't aware of this show until Sunday night, when flipping through the channels, I watched it because there was nothing else better on. Wow that was raw for me. I knew Scientology was crazy, but somehow never put the two and two together to realize how much it has in common with the Jehovah's Witness religion, which I left. The stalking, getting a hold of information, the IRS battles for tax exempt status, fake propaganda, fake statistics, enforced "meetings", the basic slave-labor status of those at headquarters compared to the higher-ups, cutting off of family contact after you leave, empty showcase buildings, repeated pleas for money just punched me in the gut. When Leah was being followed, it brought back so many memories, because when I left, I was followed home from work, so my family could find out where I lived, and then JW's kept showing up outside of my work, and at my door to the point where I would have to be escorted out of the building, and my boss finally found me another job somewhere else, because it was too taxing on everyone to have to deal with the harassment, and I had to break my lease and move out in the middle of the night to not be followed. So many of the things the married couple talked about rang true, like the wife always ratting out the husband (better to have the negative attention on someone else, not you) and Leah saying all she wanted growing up was a friend and to ride her bike just kicked me in the gut. I hope Leah has the courage to keep up the negative press on this organization, and wish that other controlling cults had celebrities that would shine the same light on them. It amazes me what can be done in the name of religious freedom.

[ElleMo]

On 12/28/2016 at 2:11 PM, GenL said:

I understand why these larger men are kowtowing to Miscavige.  Miscavige is the highest ranking person in their "religion".  So, they probably are 1. at first taken aback that he's attacking them (with the first attack- Leah was surprised to learn that Miscavige was physically abusive), 2. thinking that the  "leader" is attacking you it must be warranted and 3. afraid of the repercussions (being thrown in the hold, or whatever).  There's just something mentally hard to explain when you're being abused like that- somewhat different, but my mother was 4'11" and was abusive to me long after I was bigger than her.  It took me awhile to realize I could physically stop her.  It was very liberating when 

 

Also, he may be short, but he has guards that are not small and if you attack him, they will stop you.

[ElleMo]

On 12/30/2016 at 3:07 AM, MsTree said:

We all agree JT's sexuality doesn't matter, but he doesn't know that...and/or he's being brainwashed that it would matter to fans. Hence the silent denial.

It may matter to him.  Or his family. He may want a "normal" life with his wife and coming out would threaten that. He was raised in a time when homosexuality was not accepted.  And he was raised a Catholic too, so he was taught that homosexuality was a sin.  So even before he became a Scientologist, he may have already had a self-loathing about himself (Assuming he is gay).  

I don't know if he is straight, gay or bisexual, but if he is gay or bisexual, there are many reasons he may be uncomfortable about coming out of the closet that have nothing to do with his fans. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by ElleMo

[Chaos Theory]

JT sexuality is no ones business.  If he is gay and wants to stay in the closet for the whole of his career that is his right.   My only side eye comes when someone who is gay publicly demonizes gays.  From what I understand JT does not so I don't care one way or the other.   

On another topic I was channel hopping and I came across King Of Queens.   This was most definitely a show I ignored in the past but watched it for a bit.   Not to my tastes.  That being said Leah Remini is genuinely funny.   Was she still a scientologist when this was filmed?