S21.E01: Season 21 Premiere

[saltycheese]

I saw a few episodes of Ben's season, I saw all of Andy the Navy doctor's season, and that is the extent of my Bachelor history. I'm looking at Nick with fresh eyes, and I definitely dig him so far. He seems smart and authentic. I also like how he cares enough and has the social skills/sophistication to diffuse some of the girls' awkwardness. I also think that he's one of the best looking bachelors that I've seen. 

As for the women, I think that Vanessa and the whispering nurse seem like they might have a good chance with Nick. 

Inexplicably, since watching the premiere, I've thought about that cucumber "snack" more than I've thought about any of the women. 

[truthaboutluv]

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Oh the beards, the sure sign of a hipster but usually those guys are in their 20s and are on Teen Mom.

I don't think Nick grew a beard as some attempt to prove his hipster status. He grew it and has kept it because it truly does transform his face in a good way. Beards don't always work for some men, while for some it makes them better looking and Nick is the latter in my opinion. And I think he's pretty much said as much. That he grew it out just for a change and turns out women really liked it, so he's kept it. 

 

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And uh... that's not a turn-on for all females. Nick is a far sexier man than all of those guys combined. Their seasons were ridiculously boring. What about those "alpha males" was interesting in any sense? Ben was bland as bland can be, Brad was cute and sincere but had no substance, and all these other Bachelors were dumb as rocks (Chris), had no personality, or were a hilarious trainwreck in it for fun like Juan Pablo. As a 28 year old woman who appreciates a man with intelligence, Nick is the best bachelor yet. And sorry if it offends your idea of the kind of masculinity girls should be attracted to, but Nick is HOT. Give me a laid-back and witty equal partner any day. 

This. 

And I'm sorry but to each his own because may I never be into any man that fits this descriptor:

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as the Ultimate Hunk Of Masculinity.  Whatever we might have thought of Brad, Jesse or even Ben they were blokes’ blokes and the red blood coursing through their veins was nearly audible

That makes me think of guys like Farmer Chris and Josh Murray and *shudder* Of course overly muscled, veins popping, "real man" guys have never done a thing for me. Give me offbeat and weird any day. 

 

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On the Jimmy Kimmel after-show, I noticed that, though Andi and Nick seemed friendly, and said they were friendly with each other, Nick and Kaitlyn had little to say to each other after hello, there seemed to be some animosity.    Even the seating - You'd expect Nick to be in the middle. Instead, Andi was between Nick and Kaitlyn, and Kaitlyn turned toward Jimmy, trying to make the interview all about her, pretty much ignoring Nick. 

Nick has stated that he hasn't spoken to Kaitlyn at all since her season ended (which is interesting since he did that Movember challenge with Shawn and attended the fundraiser for it that both Shawn and Kaitlyn were at). Kaitlyn hates Nick because she believes that Nick came in and ruined her season and by that token, also ruined her and Shawn's great love story. Basically , in her mind, had it not been for him, no one would have been talking about the pre-FS sex and the focus would be on how adorable and perfect she and Shawn were. 

She's full of shit of course but a few of her fans have bought into her bullshit so much that some have spun theories that one, the sex with Nick never happened and the show just made it seem that way and forced her to go along with the storyline (no words) and those who think it did happen insist that she regretted it immediately but the show forced her to keep him to the end for the drama. Yeah okay. 

Except the word is that Kaitlyn and Nick slept together multiple times during filming, as did she and Shawn. It was also established that she told Nick she loved him multiple times, that one confirmed by Nick himself. Then there was the US Weekly story confirming just how much more intense their pre-season relationship really was, complete with multiple daily calls, many of them NSFW and that Kaitlyn more than once not so subtly suggested Nick coming onto the show if she was picked as the Bachelorette.

And that is one reason, of many, people cannot stand Kaitlyn. She takes no responsibility for her shit, especially the fact that she ruined her season. She spoiled the damn season in the most dramatic way possible and the Nick drama aside, there was also her inappropriate actions with Shawn, which was loosely confirmed by Ben of all people. It was a fact that she would come down to their room to spend time with Shawn, while Ben, another guy competing for her, was right there. As annoying as Shawn was during the season, it explained why he seemed to lose his mind once Nick joined the season because prior to that, it was pretty much a done deal with him and Kaitlyn and she was just going through the motions with the other guys. But Nick showing up changed that.

The producers canceled the hometown dates because at that point in the season, the other guys all saw the writing on the wall regarding the Kaitlyn/Shawn/Nick saga and so there was no reason to drag their families into that dog and pony show. But she takes no responsibility for any of this and instead hates Nick, the producers and the show and whines about having PTSD from what she and Shawn were put through but then also whines whenever they're not invited or included in anything related to the franchise. And girl needs to eat some more and lay off the booze because she looked downright scary on Kimmel.

 

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I just find Kaitlyn gross and really can't understand what Nick saw in her that made him think about more than a one night stand.

I have always maintained that Nick wasn't in love with Kaitlyn. I think the problem is that Nick and Kaitlyn never had a chance to physically meet before she became the Bachelorette. There was, per reports, a lot of phone conversations, Facetime, Skyping, etc. but they were never in the same place and so never had a chance to consumate things if you will. And I think that's why they hopped into bed so quickly during Nick's one on one. Because by that point there'd been a lot of sexual tension built between them. But I think once it was over, they probably both knew there wasn't much there but maybe the sex was good and in Nick's case, he figured he could stick around and become the next Bachelor (I like him but I'm honest in how he changed after Andi's season). Plus he probably thought it wouldn't look good for the guy who asked Andi about sleeping with him basically leaving the show after he and Kaitlyn did it. It would sort of give the impression of he "hit it and then quit it" 

 

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How did she seriously expect this to go?

I really think she thought she would have a good chance with him based on the fact that he'd been interested in enough once before. That it wouldn't matter that she didn't give him her number when he asked, made no attempt to contact him whatsoever and instead he'd still be so into her like he was the night of the wedding. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[In2You]

11 hours ago, fib said:

Thanks for the clarification on the timing of Andi's reveal.  You clearly know more than me.  I was not trying to blame Nick for Josh's behavior AT ALL.  That is all on Josh.  

I do believe that his question wasn't a very classy move. Especially, since Nick had lived in the house with Josh, Nick  had better insight into how awful Josh was than viewers did, since Josh got the winner's edit.  Though Andi is the one who picked him. He knew he was going to ask her that.  He could have picked better language than he ended up with.  I don't like the way he asked her. (I don't have a problem with the question - I just think that its not the kind of thing you ask in front of a studio audience and America.  YET. 

Andi wrote a whole chapter in a book dissing Nick over the sex and saying he killed her ladyboner

[Jax7917]

It's hard for me to know what kind of girl is Nick's type because personality wise, andi and kaitlyn are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Kaitlyn was scary looking on kimmel, way too skinny. And was she drunk? I feel like no one else could get a word in. I can't tell if Nick likes a calm personality or a wild one.

That being said, I don't see him being one of the bachelors who stay engaged after the show ends. No doubt he'll get engaged because it'll be the perfect end to his 10 season long stint, (although I still see him showing up in the future BIP shows), but I just don't see it lasting with anyone. He's too full of himself at this point and even though I do like him, I think hes a "wrong reasons" contestant. 

[gator12]

Nick kill Andi ladyboner so much that she went up to his Apartment thinking about going in for second but change her mind b/c his apartment didn't meet up to her rich standard. 

Like if Nick questions before the sex kill it so much for her why did she go through it in the first place? That makes no sense to me

[yorklee2]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I really think she thought she would have a good chance with him based on the fact that he'd been interested in enough once before. That it wouldn't matter that she didn't give him her number when he asked, made no attempt to contact him whatsoever and instead he'd still be so into her like he was the night of the wedding. 

Well I think that's just delusional. If she had been thinking clearly she would have realized that had he wanted to pursue something with her he would have tried again, through Jade, to get her number and he certainly wouldn't have accepted the Bachelor gig. I actually think her whole thought process changed though when he became the Bachelor. She wasn't interested in anything beyond a hook up because while obviously she found him sexy she bought the "he's a tool" scenario, thought he was a has been and she wasn't going to get her 15 minutes of fame that way. Then they announce he's the new Bachelor and suddenly she's all about wanting a serious relationship. Not sure how much of this was producer influenced but you have to ask yourself...how did they know about it? She had to have told them or told someone who she knew would let them know. So to say she was totally manipulated by the producers to do this is a stretch to me.  If she realized she made a mistake and wanted to pursue something more than why didn't she do this before he was picked for Bachelor? I think she was operating under one goal....what can you do for me?? Beforehand not so much then after he was picked she changed her tune. What is that they say in the entertainment world...that even if it's bad publicity, it's still publicity and your still relevant. I think she had that mindset going in. That even if it didn't totally work out she would still get her tv exposure and all was good. I may be wrong but none of this makes any rational sense to me.

Edited January 4, 2017 by yorklee2

[truthaboutluv]

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think Liz had her ulterior motives in that she had zero interest in pursuing anything with Nick until he was made the lead and she saw visions of being F1 and getting magazine covers and "fame" like Jade. My comment was in relation to why she actually thought it might work and I really think she believed, probably spurred on by producers, that hey, he was interested enough on some level once (never mind that it was a wedding and they were likely both wasted like most wedding hookup situations) so I may have as a good of, if not a better chance than some of the other women.

Except she underestimated Nick's ability to see through that bullshit and actually call her out on it. He'll get rid of her quickly, especially if the preview is not a fakeout and she actually tells some of the women about their past. My guess is Nick will see keeping her as a risk to the other women being upset and I think there are women he met that night that he's already far more into than Liz that he will not want to risk the disruption it could cause. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Zung Li]

It's funny that people remember Nick as being feminine on Andi's season. I remember her guys wearing scarves every day and pretty boy Marcus had quite the pastel wardrobe.

 

[Bobcatkitten]

Any chance we can just focus on this season/episode and not rehash the Andi/Kaitlyn seasons here? 

[Padma]

6 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

So Josh and Amanda are quits then? I never saw that one coming...not.

Sometimes these gimmicks work to initially stand out but so many backfire because most of these women don't know the difference between sexy, confident appeal versus embarrassing, degrading stunts. 

Someone posted earlier about how Nick didn't recognize her initially and that proved he was a tool. Or something to that effect. Which I disagree with entirely. Considering the fact that he was caught off guard with this I think he handled it beautifully. He was debating in his head what was going on, because he definitely remembered her, but didn't show it and wanted to be civil and courteous on that small chance he was wrong. But when she walked away you could see the puzzled expression all over his face. So no he's not some unaware, selfish jerk.

I don't know what she was trying to pull but boy did that backfire on her. She made the ridiculous comment when she thought he didn't recognize her that she was glad he didn't because it created mystery. Please! She was trying to save face although I think a part of her would have relished the drama. Maybe she thought if he became visibly upset and made a scene she could gain sympathy by playing the victim. Something like, "I didn't give him my number because I thought he didn't really want to pursue it, was just asking to be nice and  would have never called. Then when I saw him on BIP he didn't come across that way at all. So I wanted to see if he would like to pursue it now since he did ask for my number, but I never thought he would react this way!"....lol. I don't know what she was thinking but...really?? How did she seriously expect this to go? It never ceases to amaze me how these seemingly rational women IRL throw all common sense and dignity to the wind for TV exposure.

It may have been as uncomplicated as, "I wasn't that interested in him, but now I can get on television and be part of the Bachelor network forever! Maybe I'll get lucky and be picked for BiP and meet someone great like Jade did!"

She may be right about all of that, but the way she did it--blindsiding him on this already-stressful first night on television--makes her unlikeable to me from the beginning.  I was really impressed by the way he handled it from start to finish--including keeping her for the first night (hopefully dumping her soon afterward. Pretty clear that she doesn't have his back, and that's on Day 1.)

Edited January 4, 2017 by Padma

[DEL901]

I like a few of the women (e.g. Rachel and Vanessa) and don't mind others (too soon to care about their names), but others such as wiener girl, dolphin-shark and the one with the nanny can go home anytime now.

Liz did herself no favours going on the show.  Seriously, as many including Nick have pointed out, if she really was interested, she would have gotten in touch earlier and not just shown up on the show.  SMH.  She's made herself a laughing stock, especially when she tried to convince everyone that him not recognizing her was a good thing.

[Jax7917]

Does anyone really think Nick wouldn't have accepted the bachelor gig even if the girl had given him her number? The bachelor is his life. He would have NEVER given up this offer.

Also, I know I'm prob just super negative when it comes to reality tv because, well, even though I watch it I don't believe anything is real. I'm going to go as far as saying that the whole hook up thing at the wedding wasn't true. If it was true, I find it VERY hard to believe that she didn't give nick her phone number after a) she had sex with him and b)she knows she could get fame out of it. c) he's hot. 

I think the producers needed a juicy story line and everyone went with it for their own benefit.

[bmacknz]

37 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

Any chance we can just focus on this season/episode and not rehash the Andi/Kaitlyn seasons here? 

This !

I didn't watch previous seasons, JoJo's was my first and then BIP this past summer.  I'm just here to watch the trainwreck.  I don't care about Nick's previous seasons or any former cast members' opinion of him.  If I did, I'd be in THOSE forums, posting., not the one devoted to THIS season, THIS episode.

[truthaboutluv]

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Does anyone really think Nick wouldn't have accepted the bachelor gig even if the girl had given him her number? The bachelor is his life. He would have NEVER given up this offer.

Doesn't matter. The point is he asked and she said no and made no effort to contact him after until she showed up on television to compete against 29 other women for him. 

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Also, I know I'm prob just super negative when it comes to reality tv because, well, even though I watch it I don't believe anything is real. I'm going to go as far as saying that the whole hook up thing at the wedding wasn't true. If it was true, I find it VERY hard to believe that she didn't give nick her phone number after a) she had sex with him and b)she knows she could get fame out of it. c) he's hot. 

Or d), they were drunk, it was a hookup and she had her sights already set on going on The Bachelor to compete for Luke who everyone and their mother assumed would be the next Bachelor lead. 

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, yorklee2 said:

Well I think that's just delusional. If she had been thinking clearly she would have realized that had he wanted to pursue something with her he would have tried again, through Jade, to get her number and he certainly wouldn't have accepted the Bachelor gig. 

I doubt he'd put himself in the position to get rejected by her a second time, even if he was still interested.  If she regretted missing her chance with him, she should have been the one to get his number from Jade or Tanner & pursue him to let him know she made a mistake and see if he was still interested.  Her delusion, IMO, was thinking that her lame reasoning would work.

[yorklee2]

5 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Does anyone really think Nick wouldn't have accepted the bachelor gig even if the girl had given him her number? The bachelor is his life. He would have NEVER given up this offer.

Also, I know I'm prob just super negative when it comes to reality tv because, well, even though I watch it I don't believe anything is real. I'm going to go as far as saying that the whole hook up thing at the wedding wasn't true. If it was true, I find it VERY hard to believe that she didn't give nick her phone number after a) she had sex with him and b)she knows she could get fame out of it. c) he's hot. 

I think the producers needed a juicy story line and everyone went with it for their own benefit.

You could be right and although I can see it benefiting Liz and the producers I fail to see how Nick would benefit from this story line.

I really don't see how she could get fame from just hooking up with him at a wedding party. At the time of Jade and Tanner's wedding Nick hadn't been on BIP so at that point he was just a 2 time failure in her book, I'm sure, who couldn't get her TV exposure. She would have done much better for herself if she had just had Jade put a good word in a producers ear. Some of Kaitlyn's friends have come on for example.

To answer your question, no I don't think he would have turned down the Bachelor offer but why should he? He had no idea at that point that she was interested and since she chose to not give him her number at the time then I guess she will never know. I'm skeptical of this show too but whether he's on for the right reasons or not is a matter of opinion I guess. I can see where some would be skeptical but I choose to take it at face value. I like Nick and regardless if some of it is for the fame I'm enjoying him as Bachelor. I think he's coming across very mature, thoughtful and sincere.

[Mabinogia]

22 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Doesn't matter. The point is he asked and she said no and made no effort to contact him after until she showed up on television to compete against 29 other women for him.

Yeah, if she was really interested in him she'd have wanted to try to lock that in before he had a chance to date 29 other hot, horny women willing to do anything to get on TV.

[DEL901]

4 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

I really don't see how she could get fame from just hooking up with him at a wedding party.

I think he was just a notch on her headboard at that point.  She more or less admitted she didn't like him as a person until she saw him on BIP, or at least that was how I interpreted it. 

[yorklee2]

1 hour ago, Padma said:

I was really impressed by the way he handled it from start to finish--including keeping her for the first night (hopefully dumping her soon afterward. 

Yes I think he's making all the right calls and showing he's thoughtful and fair. If he had not kept her after that bombshell than imagine how bad he would have been perceived and rightly so. He would have been like most guys who would have just wanted to get her out of there ASAP.

[slowpoked]

I can see why some people, or even the Bachelor TPTB and Nation had pegged Nick as a villain. I mean, there are different kinds of villains, not just the ultra-mean ones. But IMO, I don't see him as a "villain" in the levels of Bentley or Chad.

Does he rub some people the wrong way? Sure. Everyone does. Even Saint Sean rubbed some people the wrong way. But I just don't think Nick has that deliberate nasty and mean streak in him, like Chad. Is he like every other guy who wants to get laid every now and then? Sure. But I do believe he fell genuinely for Andi. Is he looking for true love this season? Who knows. I just want him to give me a good season full of fun and cray cray. I really don't care what happens after the show, although I am admittedly a sucker for happy endings (Ashley/JP, Des/Chris, Sean/Catherine).

10 hours ago, Padma said:

(while nice, attractive couples like Des and Chris are shunted off to the side all the time)

Maybe Des/Chris does not want to have to do anything with the Bachelor Nation and just get on with their quiet, peaceful lives. I applaud them for not being on any reality TV after The B'ette (so far...I may have jinxed them with this). But according to Sean, the money is to die for to just walk away, so there's that.

Edited January 4, 2017 by slowpoked

[yorklee2]

33 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I doubt he'd put himself in the position to get rejected by her a second time, even if he was still interested.  If she regretted missing her chance with him, she should have been the one to get his number from Jade or Tanner & pursue him to let him know she made a mistake and see if he was still interested.  Her delusion, IMO, was thinking that her lame reasoning would work.

True, but I have seen it happen before. Of course that's the exception not the rule. Who knows what she was actually thinking? One things for sure it wasn't rational.

[ByTor]

NONE of this is rational :)

[yorklee2]

8 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Maybe Des/Chris does not want to have to do anything with the Bachelor Nation and just get on with their quiet, peaceful lives. I applaud them for not being on any reality TV after The B'ette (so far...I may have jinxed them with this). But according to Sean, the money is to die for to just walk away, so there's that.

They were on just the other night on the Countdown to Nick show. They showed their new baby and they looked really happy. She was also on either when Kaitlyn or JoJo was starting out as bachelorette (can't remember which one) to give her advice on being the new bachelorette.

Edited January 5, 2017 by yorklee2

[saber5055]

I've always been Team Nick, and still am. But I do feel very sorry for Brad Womack, who USED to be "the most controversial bachelor EVAH." How quickly TPTB forget our old favorites. (Personally, I think Juan Pablo was Most Controversial, but that's just MHO. I liked him, too. So much fun, and Ees alright!)

[truthaboutluv]

Nah I think Juan Pablo took Brad's title. I rarely hear about Brad and his season of not picking anyone, anymore.

[slowpoked]

34 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Nah I think Juan Pablo took Brad's title. 

Then Nick took Juan Pablo's title. ;) Which I would think Juan Pablo is grateful for.

[wovenloaf]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

I've always been Team Nick, and still am. But I do feel very sorry for Brad Womack, who USED to be "the most controversial bachelor EVAH." How quickly TPTB forget our old favorites. (Personally, I think Juan Pablo was Most Controversial, but that's just MHO. I liked him, too. So much fun, and Ees alright!)

And here I thought I was the only one!  I liked him as well - I found him entertaining.  I had the impression he wasn't going to be made to take this whole dumb charade that seriously and was just trying to have a good time...which I liked.  And I always laugh when I think about how mad Chris Harrison seemed at the reunion that he couldn't get JP to tell Neeeekki he loved her on command.  

As for Nick - I'm not a particular fan of his, but he's alright.  (I don't really see how he's that "controversial" though.)  I did appreciate how he tends to be sort of blunt and to the point about things (now that he's stopped whisper-mumbling from behind his hand, that is), as opposed to just nodding at every word with a dopey fake-interested look on his face (*cough* looking at you, Ben Higgins).  Like when Liz was blathering about rekindling their drunk *Jade and Tanner's wedding!* rendevous and he was basically just like "Uh, your intentions are questionable.  I don't understand why you're here."  And even on a lighter note, when that girl was declaring she was a dolphin and he was just like "False. That's obviously a shark." 

Edited January 4, 2017 by wovenloaf

[Canada]

My overwhelming impression from this episode - there are a lot of women there with huge foreheads!  Is it the inbreeding???

What a busted, vapid, moronic, delusional group of people.  I can't pick one who is any good.  Maybe Vanessa.  The rest are just awful.  I feel bad for Nick.

[Padma]

I thought Juan Pablo was a jerk, but I didn't think he was a villain. He never pretended to be in love with any of them--it was all just like a big extended party where he was trying to score as much as possible.  I only felt bad for Clare--whom I liked a lot--because she invested so much into him and what they had that romantic night in the ocean--only to find out she'd misread him. (How many of us could see that play out and feel "Been there, done that"? I still wish they'd make her a b-ette, but they'd probably bring on some Bentley types and ruin it anyway.) That was the only "relationship" he had that was really bad.

I doubt Nick will be that tacky -- or be able to match, at any time, JP's classic moment in New Zealand of throwing sheep shit at the women as they ran down the hill.

I'm not sure about the choices he's been given, but I hope he at least comes out of this a fan favorite.

[slowpoked]

19 minutes ago, Canada said:

What a busted, vapid, moronic, delusional group of people.  I can't pick one who is any good.  Maybe Vanessa.  The rest are just awful.  I feel bad for Nick.

Really?! I don't. There's lots of boobs among these women, which Nick clearly enjoyed on Day 1. 

Plus, Nick doesn't strike me as a renaissance man, so it's not like it takes a whole lot to make an impression on him.

[violetr]

4 minutes ago, Padma said:

I'm not sure about the choices he's been given, but I hope he at least comes out of this a fan favorite.

Yeah, since this show is designed for wild speculation, I'll wildly speculate that Nick won't wind up marrying the woman he chooses at the end. They'll date for a while, break up, and then he'll find the right person outside of this franchise. I'll keep an open mind, but right now none of them seem to particularly be his type. He'll probably fall in love for a while anyway, though, because that's just what he does. It's part of what I like about him, actually. 

[JudyObscure]

15 hours ago, Padma said:

I just find Kaitlyn gross and really can't understand what Nick saw in her that made him think about more than a one night stand.

I think his "love," for Kaitlyn, as well as Andi, was based on them being the only woman in sight at the time.  I think lots of the contestants on these shows talk themselves into  a temporary crush on the lead.

1 hour ago, violetr said:

I'll keep an open mind, but right now none of them seem to particularly be his type.

That was my impression, too.  I remember Ben saying that when Lauren got out of the limo, "the world stopped,"   so I watched for that with Nick and didn't see any thunderbolt moments.  Nick definitely seemed put off by the vulgar jokes, while, conversely, liking the revealing dresses, yet the only actual spark of attraction I saw was when he was talking to Rachel and while laughing with  shark-girl.  He may be the most verbal bachelor yet, so I think the way to his heart is going to be through good conversation.  A silver tongue may win out over any platinum parts.

[call me ishmael]

45 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

.  I remember Ben saying that when Lauren got out of the limo, "the world stopped,"   so I watched for that with Nick and didn't see any thunderbolt moments. 

I wish Ben's season had stopped with it.

I think it is hard to tell.  Weren't these bachelorettes chisen thinking it would be Luke.  There may be some mismatch as there was with Kaitlin.  But Nick certainly is ruminaring deeply about that Rose in his imitation of Rodin's Thinker so maybe he will find someone.

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

That was my impression, too.  I remember Ben saying that when Lauren got out of the limo, "the world stopped,"   so I watched for that with Nick and didn't see any thunderbolt moments. 

YMMV but I saw that with Vanessa. I thought he looked very physically interested staring at her when she introduced herself and there was the moment before Corinne interrupted them where they were literally just staring almost dumbfounded at each other. 

[Wandering Snark]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

A silver tongue may win out over any platinum parts.

Hah, good observation. He did seem to be intently listening and trying to formulate a gameplan as to deciding who to keep and if there was any interest there. I did like that he at least turned down one 'can I steal you for a minute' offer to honor the woman he was talking to'd "turn", which I liked.

[lightbeam]

I am watching the beginning with the women's introduction reels and all of the vocal frye is making ears bleed.  I don't know if I can handle a season with people talking like that. It makes these ladies sound really stupid. 

[huahaha]

The Liz story is a good one, but I hardly think she's a villain. It sounds like she hooked up with Nick thinking he was a player, so she chose to turn him down rather than get her feelings hurt. (He does/did have a reputation for banging his way through Bachelor-land).

Jade said that Liz asked her to invite Nick to a charity event so they could reconnect, but he was already on the path to becoming the Bachelor. She encouraged Liz to go give it another chance.

The reunion turned out spectacularly awkward, but I can empathize with Liz. She's torn between acting like she doesn't care that much but still wanting a shot with him. It's kind of sad, since she looks like his type and they maybe could've hit it off months ago if she'd been less insecure.

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but I don't buy it. I read Jade's story and yeah, she's going to defend her friend but I call bullshit. The only thing Jade could pull out to prove that Liz was interested and did reach out was, "she suggested I invite him to an event she was having and he said he couldn't attend because he was on the path to the Bachelor."

Considering Nick wasn't officially chosen to be the Bachelor until like a week or two before they started filming and Jade and Tanner's wedding happened while Ben's season was still airing (that's why he attended the wedding alone because he couldn't spoil he had chosen Lauren), so even before JoJo's season wrapped and aired, where was the interest in all that time? And again, she asks Jade to invite him to an event? That's the reaching out? How about asking her for his number?

Rumor is that Jade made some post on social media after JoJo's season suggesting that Liz would be great with Luke. In my opinion, Liz had a drunken hookup with Nick and that's all she wanted it to be. She had her sights set on going on the next Bachelor season, whoever that would be and becoming part of the franchise like her bestie. Because let's face it, no one was expecting the next Bachelor to be Nick. But sucks for her, producers decide to go for the shocker.

Now she wasn't about to turn down her chance to be part of the franchise, but kind of hard to convince a guy you're there for him when the one time you guys hooked up, you pretty much told him, "yeah, no..." when he asked for your number. So she had to spin a story and suddenly it's "well I didn't think he really wanted to ask but I regretted it and wondered if there was something there" and yet at no point asks her best friend for his number. Yeah no, sorry not buying it. 

And I'm not saying that makes her a villain. She's just a famewhore like all of them but this story she and Jade are trying to sell, no spare me. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[yorklee2]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

YMMV but I saw that with Vanessa. I thought he looked very physically interested staring at her when she introduced herself and there was the moment before Corinne interrupted them where they were literally just staring almost dumbfounded at each other. 

I saw this too. I watched again to make sure and yes it's definitely there. They were seconds away from kissing I think but Ms. Platinum Vagine had to interrupt.

The ones I think he liked, respected and was attracted to the most were, of course Vanessa, Rachel, and Danielle M. the neonatal nurse. I liked all three but I do think Vanessa was the one he was most attracted too.

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

YMMV but I saw that with Vanessa. I thought he looked very physically interested staring at her when she introduced herself and there was the moment before Corinne interrupted them where they were literally just staring almost dumbfounded at each other. 

He also said she was "a keeper" after the limo exit. Maybe it wasn't something that "made the world stop", but there was definitely something there. (BTW, Ben's world couldn't have stopped too abruptly since he still managed to "fall in love" and have sex with JoJo.)

[backformore]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I think his "love," for Kaitlyn, as well as Andi, was based on them being the only woman in sight at the time.  I think lots of the contestants on these shows talk themselves into  a temporary crush on the lead.

Absolutely.   I think that's the case for all seasons.  When you have a dozen or more suitors competing for the attention of one person, your mind tricks you into thinking that the person is much more than what is real. 

As for Liz -  She's Jade's friend.  I bet she heard all about the fame and fortune that can come when you join the Bachelor group - parties, invites, magazine photos.  Some can just blog and sell something online, they end up a lot richer just for being on the show. 

[FlyingEgret]

I ended up liking Dolphin girl when she was in the pool and said she really wanted to change out of the costume; it was clear the producers were making her keep up the stunt...

[JudyObscure]

11 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

YMMV but I saw that with Vanessa.

Yes, now that you remind me I did see something there, too,  I just wasn't sure what it was.  Sometimes, "Wow, she's beautiful!" and "OMG, is her head shaved on one side!?" can look the same.

Okay then, that's four of us who saw something or other with Vanessa.  I'm going to root for her. I wanted to anyway since she has a small head like me and we pin heads have to stick up for each other.

As for Ben sleeping with JoJo, I think she could get most men to get that dizzy look and whimper, "I love you, too, JoJo."  Like Kramer, she's got the Kevorka. JoJo always made my skin crawl and so does Corrinne so that's a sign of something else.

[peachmangosteen]

I haven't watched a full season of The Bachelor/ette since oh probably since Brad didn't choose anyone, which btw was one of my favorite things ever lol. Anyway, I had seen bits of Nick's other appearances because friends were talking about it and I did watch BIP and I personally find Nick endlessly entertaining so I decided to come back full throttle for this season. So far I am glad I did. I forgot how hilariously stupid this show is. Such fun!

I'll have to go back and watch Vanessa/Nick's interactions since so many saw something there. I had such a different impression of her than you guys did. She came off slightly unhinged to me and I thought she seemed like she believed she was too good for Nick, which honestly is probably true!

[Zung Li]

 It took me a couple of days to realize that we were not subjected to a Sainted Single Mother With Tragic Backstory! Thank ye, Bachelor gods!

Now I have to go have a look at Vanessa's entrance to see his reaction and Vanessa's head size.

[OnceSane]

Long time mod, first time watching.  I watched BiP, but never the OG shows.  This is even more trainwrecky than I could have hoped for so I'm all in.  Plus, I'm digging Nick as The Bachelor.

Liz can't admit she's in this for the fame so she has to pretend that a) she wanted more than a hookup with Nick, and, b) that she's totes cool with him barely remembering her.

Shark girl needs to give up the ghost.  Not. A. Dolphin.  But I hope she can move beyond the schtick.

I did like the lady who earned the first impression rose (can't remember her name).

[ribboninthesky1]

45 minutes ago, OnceSane said:

Liz can't admit she's in this for the fame so she has to pretend that a) she wanted more than a hookup with Nick, and, b) that she's totes cool with him barely remembering her.

I wish Liz would have gone off-script and just admitted that she wanted to come on the show for the experience/exposure/whatever and that she signed up when she thought Luke was going to be the Bachelor.  That would have been pretty awesome, even if she would have come off callous.  It wouldn't have been any worse than her current edit.  

[slowpoked]

13 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I wish Liz would have gone off-script and just admitted that she wanted to come on the show for the experience/exposure/whatever and that she signed up when she thought Luke was going to be the Bachelor.  That would have been pretty awesome, even if she would have come off callous.  It wouldn't have been any worse than her current edit.  

Haha, that would have been awesome! I can imagine Nick's shocked look of "so...you're not here FOR ME??? But I thought we had fun...." and the impending bruised ego afterwards. It could probably make Nick want her even more because the "chase" aspect is now part of the equation. But I'm sure whatever the real reason she was there for, was strictly producer-driven, and she was told to be a good girl and stick to the script. Heck, it's so easy to tell her "we changed our minds about you, we're going to go with another woman" since they did not pick her expected Bachelor. If they can do that to a potential lead the night before filming, I don't think it would be hard to do that for a contestant, as I'm sure they have a LOT waiting in the pipeline. 

[ribboninthesky1]

14 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

If they can do that to a potential lead the night before filming, I don't think it would be hard to do that for a contestant, as I'm sure they have a LOT waiting in the pipeline. 

I missed this! When did this happen?

14 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

I can imagine Nick's shocked look of "so...you're not here FOR ME??? But I thought we had fun...." and the impending bruised ego afterwards. It could probably make Nick want her even more because the "chase" aspect is now part of the equation.

Hey, we'll never know what could have been. If Liz is anything like her friend Jade, I understand why she didn't deviate. But I could tell she knew she was lying during her "explanations" to Nick.  I don't really care why she didn't reach out to him before the show.  The fact that she didn't indicates she wasn't interested enough, which is why she should have been honest rather than try to sell that "I like being mysterious" BS.  Girl, STAHP. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by ribboninthesky1

[Mabinogia]

11 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

It could probably make Nick want her even more because the "chase" aspect is now part of the equation.

I seriously doubt that since he didn't bother "chasing" her the first time she wasn't interested. And he knew straight away she wasn't there for him, so I don't see him looking shocked if she admitted what he already knew.

Whatever reasons she was there for were strictly HER driven. Production is just along for the ride. She's getting her foot in the Bachelor door the only way she can. Pretending she wants to be there for Nick and hoping she makes it long enough to get on Paradise. None of these morons needs to be told to stick to the script. They've studied and memorized the script and know exactly what part they are supposed to play to get the result they want be that the win, the trips over seas, schtuping the lead or the being the next lead.

At this point in the franchise I think production basically just sits back and puts on the cruise control and watches these girls ruin their own reputations for the sake of some internet fame.