Gilmore Girls: A Year in the Life Season 1

[junienmomo]

9 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I knew i should have re-watched. (laugh).
but I think my other point still stands though. if Rory is free-lancing, has an apartment and hopping planes... it's not like the money is gonna last forever. what happens after?

There is enough money. Christopher was offering to buy her a castle. He now runs his family's business. Franchising a business costs money, and I wouldn't be surprised if Luke's trust was in the millions. Emily has enough money to offer twice the going value of a house on Nantucket owned by rich people. Rory would have gotten an inheritance from Richard that would be worth much more.

[Taryn74]

43 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I thought Mitchum knew damn well what was up with Logan and Rory, as a practiced adulterer himself, and was subtly needling Rory and Logan to watch them squirm, thus the "casual" reference to Odette that was anything but casual. He was reminding Logan that he's engaged, and Rory that she ain't shit and never will be. The wolfish bonhomie shtick was him reveling in their discomfort, and the show of "concern" over Rory was his magnanimity in victory over Rory, since Logan had relegated her to a side piece and had accepted what Mitchum had claimed about Rory (that she was an unsuitable bride).

I completely agree.  Further, I think Mitchum was "subtly" letting Logan know that whatever he thinks he is being, discreet is not it.

The thought occurred to me this morning, and it made me laugh for quite a while - as one of the top family names in the world, there's a good possibility Logan Huntzberger and his "secret female friend" (that he goes to no lengths to hide) have made the gossip rags at some point.  I would have paid good money to see Paris mention in some off-handed way something about Logan to Rory, not realizing that Rory was naive enough to think they'd actually been keeping their relationship a secret.  At least that would have given Paris' bizarre career choice (where she's in a position to keep up with celebrity gossip -- I could see her taking the initiative to approach every celebrity who gives a hint that they're ready to start a family and bullying them into using her services) an actual point to the plot beyond L/L considering surrogacy (which, frankly, makes no sense for either of their personalities).

[Eyes High]

One thing I'm not clear on is how Paris possibly could have become an OB/GYN, a lawyer, and a certified dental technician in 10 years.

Combined JD/MD program: 6 years

OB/GYN residency: 4 years

Dental technician program: 2 years

Total : 12 years???

The only way it works is if there's some doubling up--and frankly I have no idea how that would double up--or Paris never did a residency. Another possibility is that Paris only did a general practice residency (two years), but I'm not sure that would qualify her to run a fertility clinic.

Paris is also supposedly an "expert" in neoclassical architecture, so there's a possible MA or PhD in there somewhere.

34 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

I completely agree.  Further, I think Mitchum was "subtly" letting Logan know that whatever he thinks he is being, discreet is not it.

I don't know how discreet Mitchum has been in his affairs, given that Emily suggested to Shira that it was well known that Mitchum remained a "playboy" and suggested in that same conversation that Shira knew that Mitchum was cheating, but maybe it's a "Do as I say, don't do as I did" situation.

I guess one could read that conversation as Mitchum being threatened by Rory's appearance as Logan's side piece and therefore mentioning Odette to remind Rory that she was nothing more than a mistress and never would be anything more. It's more likely, though, in my opinion, that Mitchum is so secure in the belief that Logan will marry Odette--not unreasonably, I think, given Logan's complete lack of interest in ending his engagement--that he can afford to be charming and helpful to Rory.

The whole Rory/Logan affair is so frustratingly underwritten. So many aspects could have been clarified which would have explained more about the characters' perspectives and motivations but were left deliberately vague:

1. How long has the affair been going on?

2. Was the ongoing affair Rory's idea, or Logan's? Who set up the "Vegas" rules?

3. Did Rory ever push for a monogamous relationship and get shot down? Did Logan?

4. Does Odette view it as a business arrangement, or does she genuinely think Logan is in love with her?

5. Did the affair start before or after Logan got involved with Odette?

6. How did Logan meet and get involved with Odette?

7. Did Logan mean it when he said the marriage is a "dynastic plan," or was that just typical cheater bullshit that can't be taken at face value ("Nah, baby, I don't love my fiancee, you know you're the only one for me!")?

My intuition is that the arrangement was Logan's idea and Rory unhappily went along with it because it was the only way she could be with him--Logan seemed way too comfortable with the whole side piece routine (wining, dining, sending the car, expensive outings like Matilda, etc.)--but some have insisted that it's the other way around, and I don't know that there's any way to be sure either way based on the revival as it's written.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Eyes High

[stillshimpy]

Those are excellent points about what Mitchum was up to in that moment, thank you, because I was incredibly weirded out by him and I genuinely love Gregg Henry.  He's a talented actor and so it really knocked me off-balance to have that, "Wait, what?  What's with the gloating vibe?"  and it does actually make more sense if Mitchum has known all along but doesn't care because Rory will not be Logan's wife. 

Speaking of, I got the feeling that Odette could not possibly have been in the dark about the true nature of her relationship with Logan and I kind of assumed they had a "we'll do our duty and we'll have our separate fun" arrangement.   Although judging by how soundly that woman sleeps, she may actually have been dead in that bed, so maybe Mitchum's plans were foiled (I'm joking but for real, who sleeps that heavily?)

I thoroughly enjoyed the diversion that the four episodes represented.   I've always actually like season 7.  David Rosenthal humanized Chris in a way that stuck for me and I appreciated it.  The ending of season seven was awesome, I thought.   

I liked Luke and Lorelai well enough but season 6 was so incredibly joyless that I was relieved when their relationship got shelved for essentially all of season 7. 

Anyway, I enjoyed the revival because I am glad that ASP got to finish her story.  When GG was good, I loved it.  That is because of ASP.  I do hope this is the end of the series though.   

Also, Alexis Bledel is so beautiful, she barely looks real.  I don't dislike Rory and have no problem with sexual empowerment.  That said, pretty sure being the other woman is not empowering.   I had no problem with Rory's one Wookie stand but I did wish that ASP wasn't such a child about acknowledging season 7 as canon.   Plenty of mentions of Lorelai having been briefly married and I don't there were any mentions that Rory turned Logan down at the end of the series....which was the only thing that made their strange arrangement make emotional sense to me.  

[msani19]

I agree that Mitchum was taking great pleasure in making them uncomfortable. He knows what they are doing. The look Rory had on her face was embarrassment and shame. She needs some of that. From Mitchum's perspective, they can do whatever they want. It won't go any further. 

It's pretty telling that their arrangement includes the car picking her up at 8PM to go to whatever the latest side-piece/jumpoff restaurant is the happening place in London. It's that regular. I guess in the scheme of things it's of no consequence to Logan.

[stillshimpy]

According to his Wiki page, he's a "Certified Core Energetics Practitioner, a graduate of the Radical Aliveness Institute of Southern California."

Thank you, double zout, I knew it was energy work and I think I likely forgot it because...behold the name.  However, he was very sweet about it and seemed very dedicated to it in a way that didn't make me want to pluck my actual eyeballs out, which was something of a surprise to me because...radical aliveness.  Oh my.  But there was an earnestness to his belief in it that I found touching.  

I'm not a hard sell on nice humans, you know?  I knew it had a name that made me borderline cringe but it was making him happy in a very nice way. 

[dubbel zout]

20 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

One thing I'm not clear on is how Paris possibly could have become an OB/GYN, a lawyer, and a certified dental technician in 10 years.

If anyone can do it, it's Paris Geller. I'm a bit surprised it took her four years to get through undergrad, TBH. :-)

[random chance]

1 hour ago, cuddlingcrowley said:

Then consider us neighbors!

My biggest fear for the revival was that the episodes would be all over the damn place, with no coherent storyline, crappy acting and a bunch cameos making it even bigger of a damn mess.

Instead, we got complete arcs for the three Gilmore girls -- with Rory's actually mainly focused on her career and her personal growth, for once!--, Lorelai AND Rory being flawed and interesting, the atmosphere of the old show instantly back, emotional moments that hit the right notes, SO MANY CALLBACKS to the original series and the cameos actually completely working for me. Gone is the bad taste the last couple of seasons left where the characters and the acting was one-note.

It wasn't perfect by any means. There were things I would definitely change -- the damn musical and the lack of Jess was CRIMINAL. But hey, nothing is perfect. I'm all in all very impressed with what ASP put together and I haven't liked the girls this much since the Chilton years. All the cries of what a shitty writer ASP is, and how mean/horrible Lorelai and Rory are (but not Emily, God forbid, who's an angel!) and whyyyyyy hasn't Rory become a librarian/assistant  bewilder the hell out of me and make me LOL because that's so not my show and this is probably my goodbye to these boards.

GG was a HUGE part of my formative years. I loved it then, I love it now and always. 

Since I've been nitpicking and otherwise bitching about the show (because it's just so much damn fun) I guess I should say - in spite of everything, I was so incredibly happy to see it. It was like an early Christmas present to be sitting waiting for a new GG episode to begin, and I mean the good kind of Christmas present - the Easy Bake Oven when you were a kid, not the hat and scarf set from the family Secret Santa. It was so good to see all their faces and find out how they're doing, and it was even good to get some closure regarding Richard, some actual closure not just "RIP Richard" on Twitter. So if you see me picking at the threads of Rory's hobo life or bitching about Lorelai making everything about her, don't take me too seriously - I cried as the screen credits rolled after the first episode, out of sheer gratitude for the miracle of seeing a new GG episode and having three more to go.

[stagmania]

2 hours ago, shron17 said:

But all diehard fans don't love the show--many seem to take more delight in complaining about it.  Which is all well and good.  But what the OP said was if you really love the show you will adore the revival.  I would agree.

They love the show. They did not adore the revival.

[Eyes High]

43 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Speaking of, I got the feeling that Odette could not possibly have been in the dark about the true nature of her relationship with Logan and I kind of assumed they had a "we'll do our duty and we'll have our separate fun" arrangement.   Although judging by how soundly that woman sleeps, she may actually have been dead in that bed, so maybe Mitchum's plans were foiled (I'm joking but for real, who sleeps that heavily?)

I dunno. For all we know, Odette truly believes Logan is in love with her. For all we know, Odette is madly in love with Logan. For all we know, Logan cares for her as much as he cares for Rory and is "That's the dynastic plan" is just the line he uses to string Rory along. We just don't know.

It does seem telling that Logan, who dismissed the women he slept with in the past as "brainless bimbos" in order to convince Rory that his relationships with them meant nothing, says not one negative word about Odette. He doesn't whine about having to spend time with Odette, or confide in Rory that he hates that Odette has moved in. He treats his relationship with Odette as an unshakable fact of life, no matter how much it upsets Rory. For all of her sulking at her side piece status, Rory doesn't say one negative word about Odette, either, in an attempt to minimize her relationship with Logan, which also speaks volumes, I think. 

I will say that the idea--the idea that Logan's relationship with Odette is a calculated business arrangement to which Odette and Logan both grudgingly resigned themselves on the understanding that they would have other lovers--doesn't hold up to scrutiny to me. If Logan's relationship with Odette was a business arrangement, why would he be sleeping with her? No one's going to demand proof of consummation. Why would he be agreeable to Odette moving in with him before she absolutely had to do so (i.e. after the wedding)? Why would he want to spend time with Odette before the wedding by having her move to London if it wasn't absolutely necessary? Why would he be telling Rory to stay in a hotel instead of telling Odette he needs the apartment for a few days to entertain his girlfriend and would she mind clearing out? Why does he tell Rory she can't stay in London when Odette is coming to town, instead of telling Odette to find a hotel? It doesn't make sense. Logan treats Odette like a person whose needs and wishes will always come ahead of Rory's, as opposed to a tiresome roommate..

I think Logan's relationship with Odette is just as genuine as his relationship with Rory. He might be cheating on her, but he does seem to value her and put her ahead of Rory no matter how much Rory sighs and pouts about being treated like a prostitute. Whether it's solely because he's unwilling to jeopardize his position as heir, or whether it's because he truly loves her insofar as a man merrily cheating on his fiancee can love anyone, is unknown.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Eyes High

[kieyra]

19 minutes ago, stagmania said:

They love the show. They did not adore the revival.

But do they love the show *as ASP wrote it for most of the show's run*, which almost ALWAYS included Lorelai and Rory being somewhat self-centered and making bad choices, along with lots of quirky townie shenanigans and occasionally mean-spirited humor ... or do they just love the idealized, season 1 "Snowglobe Town" show? 

ASP annoyed me occasionally (and I cringed every time I saw her husband's name in the writing credits). But there's no doubt in my mind that the revival was an authentic continuation of the show she originally set out to create, which was never 100% Snowglobe. 

[LeafontheWind]

38 minutes ago, kieyra said:

But do they love the show *as ASP wrote it for most of the show's run*, which almost ALWAYS included Lorelai and Rory being somewhat self-centered and making bad choices, along with lots of quirky townie shenanigans and occasionally mean-spirited humor ... or do they just love the idealized, season 1 "Snowglobe Town" show? 

ASP annoyed me occasionally (and I cringed every time I saw her husband's name in the writing credits). But there's no doubt in my mind that the revival was an authentic continuation of the show she originally set out to create, which was never 100% Snowglobe. 

I do love the show, at least through most of season 6. In fact, I would rank seasons 3 and 2 well above season 1 in terms of quality. I loved the dark humor of the show and the fact that characters made mistakes, but only when they learned from those mistakes. This is why I never had that much of an issue with season 7, and in fact vastly preferred it to season 6, because the characters were allowed to grow as a result of their mistakes. It was disheartening to see all that progress wiped away without even a hint of an explanation of why.

I did not love the revival, mostly because it felt like the character I used to love most (Rory) has not learned from any of her past mistakes (getting emotionally involved with men who are engaged or married being the biggest one). I did not feel that the revival was an authentic continuation of the show, nor do I wish the characters to be "Snowglobe" characters. The revival felt, to me, like an amplification of the worst parts of the show that I loved- see never ending musical included for... reasons. You obviously feel differently, which is your right. Just because I didn't like this revival doesn't mean I wasn't a "true fan", I was just a fan of different parts of the show than you. I loved Emily's story in the revival and mostly enjoyed Lorelai's, but the bad outweighed the good for me. I don't regret watching, though, because I now have renewed appreciation for season 7.

Edited November 27, 2016 by LeafontheWind
Spelling!

[photo fox]

@Eyes High, I feel like there's some space between "business arrangement" and "open relationship", though. Logan's parents, for example - I don't think Shira was under the illusion that Mitchum was in love with her, but that doesn't mean she was okay with him cheating on her.  I can see it as, "I don't love her, and she doesn't pretend to love me, but we have a mutually beneficial partnership, and I'm not going to flaunt my girlfriend in her face." It's still not great, but it's less "not great" than Odette thinking they're marrying for love, if that makes sense.

But I agree - we simply aren't told, which is kind of crazy!  We got zero insight into their relationship, or Rory and Logan's recent history.  They had a great opportunity when Rory confessed to her mom to have Lorelei ask, "when/why/how did this happen?"  But there wasn't time, because we had to have 20 minutes of the musical and 10 minutes of Rory and Lorelei mocking fat people at the pool.

And Logan got literally no POV in four episodes. His only conversations were with Rory, and I'm not sure he even got an extended reaction shot. Frankly, it was a weird way to use a character and actor who was a regular at the end of the show (and supposedly one of ASP's favorites). I felt like MC did everything he could to elevate what was on the page, but there was precious little on that page to work with. 

[Sweet Tee]

I liked the revival overall.  I don't think they all needed to be 90+ minutes.  They all started to drag after a while.  Rory's an asshole but she has been since about season 5 so at least I can say she's consistent.  I've rarely ever been invested in her and I don't care who she ends up with, so her story didn't upset me like it did many here.  Though, even in the end, she still didn't break up with Paul.  He broke up with her.  Come on, girl.  I think Logan is a douche and always has been, but again, since she is too, why not have them end up together?  I'm happy Dean ended up doing well and getting over Rory.  She really put him through the ringer more than the other guys.  I like Jess fine and love his relationship with Luke, but beyond that, whatever.  Don't care if he's still pining after Rory.

I love L/L.  And I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't think they're joyless together.  I loved them together in season 5.  Season 6, not so much.  And I thought they seemed very comfortable together during the revival.  I teared up at their wedding and that's about as much as I could ask for from those two.  So, I'm satisfied.  But, I wish they could have gotten MM to stand there for the ceremony.

Emily's story was perfect and I loved it.  Kelly Bishop really was the highlight here.  I liked her bonding with Berta and her family.

The musical didn't bother me that much but I agree that it went on too long and the time could have been better spent on other things, like Lane.  I could have used more Lane.   

[starri]

42 minutes ago, kieyra said:

But do they love the show *as ASP wrote it for most of the show's run*, which almost ALWAYS included Lorelai and Rory being somewhat self-centered and making bad choices, along with lots of quirky townie shenanigans and occasionally mean-spirited humor ... or do they just love the idealized, season 1 "Snowglobe Town" show? 

Are those the only two options?

[LADreamr]

I'm glad they made it and would watch more, if they agree to do it, but I do agree with the disappointments most of you have voiced.  Rory was my biggest issue.  I've always felt that she was much more tell than show, when it came to how amazing she apparently is.  During the series, they did her a great disservice, when she wanted to quit Yale because Logan's father was mean to her.  I know there was more to it, but that's what it came down to.  It's fine to be mad at someone who is a dick to someone you love, but that could have been a teachable moment: you want to be Christiane Amanpour?  How much do you think she's had to prove pricks like him wrong, or just go forward, in spite of them?  Also, you want to interview world leaders like she does? You think you won't deal with some assholes there?

I bring up the series with this, because I really don't see any growth there.  She gets a shot with Conde Nast which could have opened all kinds of doors for her, and she couldn't have acted less interested in actually doing the work.  And that actually could have been an interesting article.  Same with the website (not that that pretentious place deserved much investment).  But she couldn't think of anything off the top of her head.  I wanted a reason to root for/sympathize with her, but she just kept pissing me off. 

If that's the work she wanted to do, she had seemingly unlimited funds to make it happen.  But she was never hungry enough.  She never had to be.

[LegalParrot81]

1 hour ago, kieyra said:

But do they love the show *as ASP wrote it for most of the show's run*, which almost ALWAYS included Lorelai and Rory being somewhat self-centered and making bad choices, along with lots of quirky townie shenanigans and occasionally mean-spirited humor ... or do they just love the idealized, season 1 "Snowglobe Town" show? 

 

I do love the show, but saying that does not mean I had to love every single episode ASP wrote, some were just bad.  I wasn't that big a fan of the revival because I know ASP can do better, I've seen it.  I'll admit that perhaps my expectations were too high for this event and overly high expectations ultimately always leads to some level of disappointment.

[limecoke]

Quote

So much of it felt rushed, forced and busy, I don't know why they chose to do it that way. There were scenes that felt like a cameo parade. I missed the warmth and subtle humor, at times this seemed like a parody.

Admittedly, I'm just watching Winter so have a long ways to go, but this is my initial reaction.  You described it perfectly.  Seems like everyone is trying so hard to recapture something.  I hope they all just settle down.  The initial meeting between Lorelei and Rory was so frantic and silly and as they spat out so many snappy lines it just got ludicrous.  Only Emily seemed like herself.  Rory has annoyed me since she made the decision to have sex with a married man and I can't find anything in grown-up Rory to change my mind.  We'll see how it goes from here.

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Are those the only two options?

Hey, I'm just asking questions. Keep in mind I've been watching the show (including rewatches, obviously) for almost fifteen years, and that's been fifteen years of reading basically the same complaints about the two main characters over and over. 

[Leonana]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Are those the only two options?

I agree. I didn't see season 1, and some parts of the other seasons, as a Snowglobe. I saw the characters as flawed, but underneath still decent people overall. In order to have a good story, you need some tension between the two.

[Miss Slay]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

 I thought Mitchum knew damn well what was up with Logan and Rory, as a practiced adulterer himself, and was subtly needling Rory and Logan to watch them squirm, thus the "casual" reference to Odette that was anything but casual. He was reminding Logan that he's engaged, and Rory that she ain't shit and never will be. The wolfish bonhomie shtick was him reveling in their discomfort, and the show of "concern" over Rory was his magnanimity in victory over Rory, since Logan had relegated her to a side piece and had accepted what Mitchum had claimed about Rory (that she was an unsuitable bride). Why shouldn't Mitchum be gracious to Rory? He won.

So much interesting analysis. ITA with your point.

I did wonder if Logan brought Rory to that restaurant on purpose. He knows that his dad goes there a lot...so he wasn't hiding Rory.

[starri]

42 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Hey, I'm just asking questions. Keep in mind I've been watching the show (including rewatches, obviously) for almost fifteen years, and that's been fifteen years of reading basically the same complaints about the two main characters over and over. 

My complaints don't really have anything to do with Lorelai and Rory as characters.  Lorelai, at least as much as she occasionally annoys me, is someone I generally like.  Rory is...more complicated.

My complaints are that the writing is rubbish.  I haven't allowed myself to rewatch much of the show because I don't want to tarnish my memories of seeing it the first time, which are mostly pretty good.

[kieyra]

1 minute ago, starri said:

My complaints don't really have anything to do with Lorelai and Rory as characters.  Lorelai, at least as much as she occasionally annoys me, is someone I generally like.  Rory is...more complicated.

My complaints are that the writing is rubbish.  I haven't allowed myself to rewatch much of the show because I don't want to tarnish my memories of seeing it the first time, which are mostly pretty good.

I think if you do go back and rewatch, you'll find the writing in the original six seasons and the revival are far more alike than they are different. For example, the Palladinos have never been able to get a handle on how money works in the real world. Daniel Palladino's side trips to bizzaro-land are no different now than when he was annoying the shit out of me with the Poe episode over a decade ago. Lorelai and Rory have always been prone to whining, expecting special treatment, and making fun of people for their own amusement. It's kind of their thing. If you mean the dialogue, I found the rhythm, sharpness and pop-culture references to be very similar. Otherwise, I found the writing to be solid and consistent (aside from the Ray Wise storyline), the emotional hits landed with deadly accuracy, and I could see how the character arcs would play out by the first act. (That's a good thing--it means the people who did the writing understand how character arcs *work*. Lots of tv writers don't.)

I really do understand hate-watching a show. I did it with Sleepy Hollow for about a year (although to be fair, the showrunners were racist pieces of garbage). I just don't understand it in this scenario. But I also understand that I can't argue people into liking something they don't like, so I'll bow out now. I'm sorry more people 'round these parts weren't able to enjoy it--it couldn't have come at a better time for me personally.

[starri]

I'm glad you liked it.  I'm always in favor of people getting to experience more of a thing they enjoy.  I'm only saying that those of us who were disappointed have perfectly legitimate reasons for doing so.

[HeySandyStrange]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I will say that the idea--the idea that Logan's relationship with Odette is a calculated business arrangement to which Odette and Logan both grudgingly resigned themselves on the understanding that they would have other lovers--doesn't hold up to scrutiny to me. If Logan's relationship with Odette was a business arrangement, why would he be sleeping with her? No one's going to demand proof of consummation. Why would he be agreeable to Odette moving in with him before she absolutely had to do so (i.e. after the wedding)? Why would he want to spend time with Odette before the wedding by having her move to London if it wasn't absolutely necessary?

I agree with this. As much as I'd like to believe that Odette is a stone cold heiress who is knows the score about the marriage/business arrangement she's about to enter into, everything points to her being in the dark. I suspect, even if she isn't Logan's soulmate there is some foundation of mutual respect, affection and attraction between them. Even if their relationship is has a more practical bent, it seems like it is "traditional" rather then "open". I also think Logan might have too much ego to be okay with his wife-to-be openly having a side-piece, so I don't see him agreeing to an open arrangement with Odette. Thus he prefers to go underground and keep Rory his dirty little secret.  Cheaters tend to be hypocrites like that, in my experience.

[amensisterfriend]

Can someone explain to me why Logan has to marry Odette? I get that ASP has a certain (typically exaggerated!) view of how very radically different the upper class operates from the rest of us 99%ers, but even she knows that Logan isn't an Earl living in Regency-era England who 'has to' marry into a certain family for reasons relating to property and their future heir or part of an ancient Chinese dynasty despite Logan's wry comment about marrying for "dynastic" reasons, right?! I get that his parents want him to marry a certain 'type' of woman, but do we know why it has to be this particular one? Maybe Logan has actual feelings for this woman? I realize it's a relatively minor issue on a revival that offered more significant ones, but I just don't get this idea that he would be forced to marry this specific person if he didn't want to. I've come into contact with a few very wealthy families through work and have gotten to know some of them and their friends well enough over the years to hear them chat about their kids' love lives, and I've never heard of any of them wanting their son or daughter to marry a certain person for reasons related to their 'business empires' or anything even close. Wanting certain of their kids' would-be spouses to sign prenups, yes, and a couple of them even disapproving (though not outright forbidding) of marriages to people who they're worried are gold diggers, but nothing like a 'it's prudent for both families' business interests if these two wed...' thing. It seems so bizarrely antiquated and contrived to me. I would find it darkly amusing if it came out that Logan felt obligated to marry Odette because he had gotten her pregnant as well :) Or if he just didn't want to admit to Rory that he actually loves this woman (despite being the weak-willed, smarmy and gross cheater that he is) so he blamed his parents for 'making him' marry this woman. Logan always seemed to petulantly blame his parents for things even when he actually could have made his own decisions and attempted to change things all along.    

[Nilo]

15 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I agree with this. As much as I'd like to believe that Odette is a stone cold heiress who is knows the score about the marriage/business arrangement she's about to enter into, everything points to her being in the dark. I suspect, even if she isn't Logan's soulmate there is some foundation of mutual respect, affection and attraction between them. Even if their relationship is has a more practical bent, it seems like it is "traditional" rather then "open". I also think Logan might have too much ego to be okay with his wife-to-be openly having a side-piece, so I don't see him agreeing to an open arrangement with Odette. Thus he prefers to go underground and keep Rory his dirty little secret.  Cheaters tend to be hypocrites like that, in my experience.

Yes.  I see it almost as the Willoughby/Marianne situation from Sense and Sensability.  Logan (Willoughby) understands his duty is to marry the heiress and keep her happy.  Whether he loves her or not is irrelevant.  But she will need to come first.  If Rory can be happy in Maine or at the Dorchester Hotel, then it's a win/win/win.  But if not, well then, the trip to Oz will need to come to an end for Rory - but not Odette.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Nilo
Stupid iPad keyboard

[msani19]

I don't get a sense that Rory won't tell Logan about the baby. I think she will. I think that Logan will be shocked and when/if he decides to distance himself from raising the child, sets up a trust and sends her regular child support, Rory will be fine with that since that's what she was anticipating anyway. Because this is an ASP show, I'm imagining that she's carrying Lorelai IV. So now we'll have another generation of Gilmore women with daddy issues. Super.

Let's hope it's a boy.

Edited November 28, 2016 by msani19
Spelling

[LegalParrot81]

4 minutes ago, msani19 said:

Let's hope it's a boy.

Richard Gilmore II

[msani19]

Just now, LegalParrot81 said:

Richard Gilmore II

Ok, now that would be perfect! I just teared up a little. 

[HeySandyStrange]

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Can someone explain to me why Logan has to marry Odette?

I think there is a distinct possibility that Odette, on top of being from a rich and assumingly well-connected family, may actually have many attractive qualities. For starters, I'm sure she is a beautiful woman, I can't see Logan willingly marrying someone who wasn't attractive. I'd think she is educated and even genuinely smart. Logan may sleep with "bimbos" but I think he does prefer a woman with a brain for the long term. Maybe she has a lot of business acumen and is charismatic and can help Logan expand the empire. She could also be responsible, kind, independent and stable. To put it more bluntly, Logan might consider her a great potential wife and partner, more then Rory. Rory is smart, can be witty and even charming, but she stable or strong she is not. Logan is obviously weak-willed and selfish, but he might be just smart enough to realize he needs a stabilizing influence. Perhaps Odette is that for him? We may never know, which might almost be better. Knowing ASP she'd write Odette to by some snobby, shallow French/1%er stereotype instead of a complex human being. Anything to make Rory (or Lorelai) look a tad better.

[amensisterfriend]

Maybe she has a lot of business acumen and is charismatic and can help Logan expand the empire. She could also be responsible, kind, independent and stable. To put it more bluntly, Logan might consider her a great potential wife and partner, more then Rory. Rory is smart, can be witty and even charming, but she stable or strong she is not. Logan is obviously weak-willed and selfish, but he might be just smart enough to realize he needs a stabilizing influence. Perhaps Odette is that for him? We may never know, which might almost be better. Knowing ASP she'd write Odette to by some snobby, shallow French/1%er stereotype instead of a complex human being. Anything to make Rory (or Lorelai) look a tad better.

I love your ideas about Odette, and you are so right that it's a blessing we didn't get to meet her. Remember how we were supposed to feel better about Rory sleeping with the very married Dean because ASP showed us Lindsay was a shrew who (*gasp*) wanted a house and to be a homemaker or something? (Because Rory herself had treated Dean SO fantastically, by the way!) And we had already learned back in S3 that Lindsay doesn't have Rory and Lorelai's 'cool' taste in music, so right then and there I decided that Rory was TOTALLY justified in sleeping with Dean. ;) 

So am I right in saying that many people here liked Summer least and Fall the most? Every episode had a couple of things I liked and a whole lot that I didn't, so I'm not sure how to rank them. 

[tarotx]

Like I said picture Rory/Logan/Odette in a triangle(though I I think I said trio by mistake because of the original Arrow trio and VD) that tv is so fond of and Rory is the one who wasn't picked. Rory is Logan's Christopher and Odette is his Luke. LOL. This is why I don't ship. Or compare characters as versions 2.0. It all seems like this to me. Not that I'm dissing shipping or anything. I used to ship back in Buffy days and was turned off. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by tarotx

[nachomama]

It Would be spectacular if the baby daddy is the Wookie  I eyerolled a lot at Rory.  people just knock themselves over to give her stuff. here's a house! why don't I give you a newspaper to run. All men must love Rory blah blah blah 

I'm glad they didn't have Lorelai pregnant. 

[Randomosity]

Completely random thought/observation - Rory/Alexis Bledel looked exceedingly freckle-y at times. I don't recall that being the case in her younger days. Anyone else notice? Is her skin not aging well? HD TV just showing me what I never saw before? True freckles unearthed by a lighter hand by the makeup crew?

I do wonder if it's more age spot type things. There was a scene early on, maybe even right in the beginning, where Rory was hugging either Emily or Lorelai. And I balked when I saw Rory's hand during the hug, because it looked like a withered hand that looked like it belonged on a much older person.

[Miss Slay]

2 minutes ago, Randomosity said:

Completely random thought/observation - Rory/Alexis Bledel looked exceedingly freckle-y at times. I don't recall that being the case in her younger days. Anyone else notice? Is her skin not aging well? HD TV just showing me what I never saw before? True freckles unearthed by a lighter hand by the makeup crew?

I do wonder if it's more age spot type things. There was a scene early on, maybe even right in the beginning, where Rory was hugging either Emily or Lorelai. And I balked when I saw Rory's hand during the hug, because it looked like a withered hand that looked like it belonged on a much older person.

Awww. Poor Alexis. She has a baby face for 15 years and the second she starts to age a little people complain.

[Randomosity]

1 minute ago, Miss Slay said:

Awww. Poor Alexis. She has a baby face for 15 years and the second she starts to age a little people complain.

I never said I was complaining. I'm merely curious as to what other people saw. It straight up could have been a different makeup crew that had covered natural freckles back in the day. And HD literally changes what you see, and I still had a clunky old CRT set when the original series ended. I'm the last person who would ever shame someone for aging naturally/gracefully. Chill.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Also, not for nothing, but ASP being as big a ballet fan as she is, I'm guessing the name Odette is not accidental ... isn't she she White Swan? 

[txhorns79]

I think the main question I would have is: Did Jess and Logan spend the entire last decade working out, or did the wardrobe people put them in really tight clothing at times? 

[EarlGreyTea]

1 hour ago, LegalParrot81 said:

Richard Gilmore II

I really wanted this. Puts a bow on the special relationship between Rory and Richard. They could call him Ricky or something. But you know ASP. There is no other possible outcome except a girl named Lorelai IV. Which is too bad. My biggest peeve is that Lorelai never had any more kids. The dynamic between Luke/Lorelai/Rory/a son would have been fresh and interesting. Lorelai trying to relate to a boy may have created some organic storylines, too. Having said that, if April is anything to go by, thank God we were spared another child actor on this show (with apologies to Vanessa Marano).

Edited November 28, 2016 by EarlGreyTea

[stillshimpy]

5 hours ago, photo fox said:

 

@Eyes High, I feel like there's some space between "business arrangement" and "open relationship", though. Logan's parents, for example - I don't think Shira was under the illusion that Mitchum was in love with her, but that doesn't mean she was okay with him cheating on her.  I can see it as, "I don't love her, and she doesn't pretend to love me, but we have a mutually beneficial partnership, and I'm not going to flaunt my girlfriend in her face." It's still not great, but it's less "not great" than Odette thinking they're marrying for love, if that makes sense.

 

 

Thanks, photofox, you saved me a lot of typing time.   There are degrees of anything.  Logan wasn't actually that careful about Odette.  He glanced back at her and continued his conversation.   Yup, Rory was consigned to hotels because Odette was moving in but at the top of the episode, Rory expressed fears about finding someone else's stuff in his closet.  He promises he would never, ever do that to her. 

You can't hide all evidence of someone who lives there.   Rory turned down Logan's proposal, she didn't want to marry him then, why would she now?  Logan did get a very extended reaction shot.  As he says, "that's the dynastic plan" , check out his expression.  He looks like eagles are snacking on his liver.  Before he charges in with the life and death guys (and apparently his hearty seed because I'm guessing she got knocked up on the magical, mystery tour) when Rory hangs up, clearly hurt that he now has a permanent roommate, his head slumps down and he looks dejected as hell.  We have no clue what the story is supposed to be, but the actor swung for the fences on "someone has my nuts in a vice".  

[stillshimpy]

24 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think the main question I would have is: Did Jess and Logan spend the entire last decade working out, or did the wardrobe people put them in really tight clothing at times? 

 

For friggin' real.  Apparently, heartbreak is good for the overall fitness and figure.  Gadzukes. 

[stagmania]

5 hours ago, kieyra said:

But do they love the show *as ASP wrote it for most of the show's run*, which almost ALWAYS included Lorelai and Rory being somewhat self-centered and making bad choices, along with lots of quirky townie shenanigans and occasionally mean-spirited humor ... or do they just love the idealized, season 1 "Snowglobe Town" show? 

ASP annoyed me occasionally (and I cringed every time I saw her husband's name in the writing credits). But there's no doubt in my mind that the revival was an authentic continuation of the show she originally set out to create, which was never 100% Snowglobe. 

Yeah I don't think I can really speak for them on that level. My point is that plenty of fans didn't like the revival, and you shouldn't assume that it's because they weren't real fans or because they watched the show wrong. It's nice for y'all if you liked it; some people really didn't.

Edited November 28, 2016 by stagmania

[msani19]

I've been watching the new show, This Is Us, that Milo is in and commented on how freaking amazing he looks. Milo as the young version of Jess did nothing more me. Milo, now....HELLO! 

[Thundercatmary]

8 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

We have no clue what the story is supposed to be, but the actor swung for the fences on "someone has my nuts in a vice".  

If he thinks she has his nuts now just wail till their married lol 

;)

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

My sister is absolutely convinced Logan poked a hole in the condom because he stole that candy baby bottle at Doose's.

[junienmomo]

Thoughts about Emily's attitude toward the wedding in Fall, brought over so I don't put non-Fall spoilers in that thread. 

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From txhorns79:

I was a little mixed on Emily's storyline.  I realize that Lorelai and Luke got married several hours early, but I thought it was strange (and maybe a little hurtful) that Emily got excluded.  In fact, it was a little weird that Emily was still in Nantucket when her daughter was getting married the next day.  Was she really going to just fly in the day of the wedding?  I know she said she had no involvement in the planning, or anything, but you'd think she would have at least arrived early, if only to help attend to last minute details.   

Emily was totally switched off from Lorelai's wedding by the time Lorelai stops by just before the wedding, if she was ever involved. She didn't tell anyone about it, she berated herself for buying a dress that she in the moment thought she wouldn't use, and she moved to Nantucket right before the wedding.

The elopement wedding was a loving, affectionate, spontaneous notion that I would support for any couple, even my own kid. If I were so crazy as to be far enough away the night before, I would accept their decision. It wasn't as if they were going to cancel the formal wedding. 

It was Lorelai's idea, and Luke was happy to agree, more so because it would also be his style. They both resonated with the idea of exchanging vows is a setting most meaningful to them, in other words, a small intimate circle. It was sad that Sookie and Jess couldn't be there, but nothing's perfect.

After the psychotic way in which Emily lectured her fifty year old daughter for not being married already, Lorelai was completely justified in not giving up on the elopement wedding when she realized Emily couldn't be there.

After Emily's manipulation at the therapy, her gloating over Lorelai's and Luke's communication problems, and her coldness about the wedding itself, I would not invite her to either wedding, even if she was the mother. That's not the behavior of a loving or even polite mother.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, stillshimpy said:

Yup, Rory was consigned to hotels because Odette was moving in but at the top of the episode, Rory expressed fears about finding someone else's stuff in his closet.  He promises he would never, ever do that to her. 

No, he doesn't. Dialogue is as follows:

Rory: No, like, uh...other girls' things.

Logan: All clear.

Rory: Okay.

Logan: Hey...I wouldn't do that. Leave things around for you just to...

Rory: I wasn't accusing...

Logan: I know, I'm just...

In context, he takes umbrage at the suggestion that he would leave things lying around to hurt Rory's feelings, a suggestion that deeply wounds him since as we know Logan would never do anything that would hurt Rory's feelings, other than the long list of bullshit he pulls in the revival, of course. What a prince!

Assuming he somehow implicitly made the promise of never exposing Rory to the sight of Odette's things in his apartment, though, he kept that promise by doing the following:

1) deciding or agreeing (we're not sure which, although I lean towards the former, since Revival Logan is his own man and does what he wants) to move Odette in;

2) moving Odette in without telling Rory;

3) banning Rory from the apartment permanently (she can't see Odette's stuff if she's not allowed to set foot in the apartment);

4) apologizing for not telling her about it (but, I think you should very carefully note, not for moving Odette in); and

5) trying to get Rory to meet him in hotels like a prostitute, or, when that didn't work, in a secret love shack.

As ASP said, Logan is Christopher: all sweet, shallow reassurances followed by subsequent actions that stomp on her heart. 

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We have no clue what the story is supposed to be, but the actor swung for the fences on "someone has my nuts in a vice".

ASP and the costume designer commented to the effect that although Logan was trapped in the original series, Logan is his own man now. If he's engaged to Odette, it's because he chooses to be and for no other reason. Reading Logan as a poor little rich boy trapped by cruel circumstance into a hideously loveless business arrangement is completely at odds with how Logan is written in the revival, as someone who has moved into his power and is making his own choices. If Logan is engaged to Odette, it's because he wants to be. Matt Czuchry basically admitted in his ET revival premiere interview that he sees Logan differently from ASP and DP, and that may have coloured his acting choices, but the writing is pretty stark when it comes to Logan's comfort with his engagement and with treating Rory as a side piece.

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 Rory turned down Logan's proposal, she didn't want to marry him then, why would she now?

ASP seems to have disregarded the proposal, so who knows?

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 Logan did get a very extended reaction shot.  As he says, "that's the dynastic plan" , check out his expression.  He looks like eagles are snacking on his liver.

So? Logan made that exact same series of pained expressions when forced to admit on the phone that Odette was in London and later that Odette had moved in. It's not the face of a man in love; it's the face of a man who is uncomfortable at being forced to own his bullshit. When Rory asks him straight up if he's going to marry Odette, Logan is forced to tell the truth and expose the hollowness of the "romantic" evening and offer of a love shack; for all his wooing of Rory, he fully plans on choosing someone else over her. You think he's going to tell the woman he's trying to reinstate as his fuck buddy that he's in love with his fiancee? What's he going to say, "You bet your ass I am, she's dynamite in the sack, way hotter than you, and I'm in love with her"? 

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Before he charges in with the life and death guys (and apparently his hearty seed because I'm guessing she got knocked up on the magical, mystery tour) when Rory hangs up, clearly hurt that he now has a permanent roommate, his head slumps down and he looks dejected as hell.  

Oh yes, poor, suffering Logan. Is there any suffering more exquisite than the suffering of a man who's just been informed that his side piece wants out? Of course, Rory is brokenhearted and humiliated by Logan moving Odette in without telling her and relegating her to hotels, and she has made the distressing realization that she is using Logan as an emotional crutch to avoid dealing with her shit, but who cares about Rory's suffering? Logan can't fuck her anymore, and that upsets him, and isn't that really what matters here? Logan's sad, pained face?

Of course he's dejected; he lost his favourite toy, and no longer can he have his cake and eat it too as he did when he had a fiancee and a mistress. Logan's never taken well to being deprived of things he wants. He's not nobly suffering upon being deprived of his one and only love as some would have it when he's upset that Rory dumped him. He's being the same spoiled little shit he's always been, who throws a tantrum at being denied what he wants and who refuses to take "No" for an answer, which explains the LDB caper. That doesn't mean that he cares any more about Rory or that he cares any less about Odette, to the extent that a self-centered asshole like Logan can care about anyone other than himself. Actions speak louder than words, and in his actions Odette was the unstated top priority, to the point where it doesn't even occur to Logan to give Rory a heads up that she'll be banned from the apartment. Rory matters so little to him that he doesn't even think to tell her until he absolutely has to, because, as I said, his actions prove that his relationship with Odette matters much more to him than his relationship with Rory, for whatever reason. Logan treats Rory like an afterthought until it looks like it will cost him his access to Rory, and then he cranks out the bullshit grand gesture.

Actions speak louder than words, and Logan's actions in the revival prove how little he cares for Rory and how little she means to him. Just as with Christopher, to get the truth about Logan, stop listening to his charming words and stop looking at his sad, pained faces when he doesn't get what he wants. To get the truth about Logan, you need to look at what Logan's actually doing to Rory. Actions speak louder than words.

I don't know whether Logan is in love with Odette, but his relationship with her is clearly by choice, and he always puts her first in the revival. The only reason that he's at all conflicted about putting Odette first at all times and treating his future marriage to her as a done deal is that it jeopardizes his ability to keep Rory as his mistress. His priorities in the revival are crystal clear. The idea that Logan doesn't care about Odette, that he would dump Odette in a heartbeat if Rory would just give him a sign, or that the only reason Logan continues with the relationship, to the point of moving Odette in, is because he's been cruelly and tragically forced into it (Game of Thrones-style, I guess?), is a fantasy, in my opinion.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Eyes High

[WhosThatGirl]

I really hate the life and death brigade. So, seeing them again wasn't fun at all.  I thought that wasn't needed. None of them are enjoyable and LDB isn't really all that cute and whimsical when you're 30 something, at least not to me. Also, the last time we saw the LDB in season six was the time Logan almost died, like he broke ribs and was in critical condition and Rory awesomely told off Finn and Colin for this BS, the ridiculousness is ridiculous. Plus, I personally don't want to pretend season 7  does not exist, but I guess I have to in order for this revival to work. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[chick binewski]

7 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

At least that would have given Paris' bizarre career choice (where she's in a position to keep up with celebrity gossip -- I could see her taking the initiative to approach every celebrity who gives a hint that they're ready to start a family and bullying them into using her services) an actual point to the plot beyond L/L considering surrogacy (which, frankly, makes no sense for either of their personalities).

The surrogacy plot made me crazy. I don't think it's something these characters would be a part of. Lorelai would go on about borrowing someone's womb and Paris would just be like, 'lady, your inability to procreate is God telling you not to parent!'

Something else that made no sense to me was Lorelai's specific reaction to the book. You worked hard to keep the details of your life a secret? You mean when you weren't busy talking about yourself to anyone who would listen? And why did you leave Rory in a fictional bucket? And what the hell was that? Was it conscious abandonment?