Gilmore Girls: A Year in the Life Season 1

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

While I know you were talking about Lorelai being dressed up like an ASP clone (and you're absolutely right, by the way), while we're on the subject I thought that Rory, Lorelai, and yes, even Emily (that hideous blue/black/white skirt suit at her last DAR meeting) wore incredibly ugly clothes at various points in the revival. The guys looked great, though.

Agreed.  There was also a heinous Rory? outfit that was revealed in a photo before the premiere that made me speculate about the plot (ironically a close guess BTW), that was even more heinous when the shoes were revealed in the show.  Must have been summer, navy trousers with hideous white satin sleeveless top with some red/blue striping and floral print that definitely made you think Rory was expecting/they were hiding the actress' pregnancy.  The coup de grace was fire engine red platform stripper heels -- worn while walking about town for a festival no less.  Definitely not anything remotely like past Rory taste in clothing -- and no relation at all to anything else they showed her in for this year in her life either. 

[Eyes High]

Just now, Tikichick said:

Agreed.  There was also a heinous Rory? outfit

A heinous Rory outfit in the revival? You'll have to be more specific, hee, because there were a ton. Rory's supremely ugly and impractical outfit when she went on her lines investigation--short-sleeved sweater (okay), long cocktail party skirt (uh....), and flimsy high heels (???)--had to be in the top three, though.

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

A heinous Rory outfit in the revival? You'll have to be more specific, hee, because there were a ton. Rory's supremely ugly and impractical outfit when she went on her lines investigation--short-sleeved sweater (okay), long cocktail party skirt (uh....), and flimsy high heels (???)--had to be in the top three, though.

How could I forget that one?  I think maybe I let it pass because the Holly Go Lightly salute seemed more in keeping with Rory's sartorial choices to me, however improbable for the occasion.

[amensisterfriend]

Quote

I know I'm in the minority of a minority, but I don't like Luke/Lorelai at all (I haven't since the beginning) and the reboot just highlighted why they make a terrible couple all over again.

As you can see on this thread and others, you're definitely not alone here---more than a few of us feel LL are depressingly devoid of joy, connection, communication, chemistry and compatibility and that, despite a few sweet scenes at the end, there was sadly little indication that they had grown individually or as a couple since we saw them last. Luke is still relentlessly negative and unpleasant, and IMO SP still delivers his lines like he's genuinely angry and perpetually annoyed with Lorelai rather than a lovable curmudgeon who's just a little cranky in general. Lorelai is still immature and seems unsure about every aspect of their relationship, less a woman in love than one who's kind of shrugged and decided to settle. (Again, just my opinions/impressions and obviously not ones that we're supposed to have!) Don't get me wrong---even as a non-LL shipper, I liked their wedding scenes taken in isolation---I just don't feel like they were the well-earned culmination of a satisfying LL arc. 

Quote

The entire Logan/Rory situation is a hot mess with no exploration into how any of the characters are feeling or justification for their situation.

Exactly! And that's a key problem with the revival in general for me: for all the time we spent with some of these characters, there was so little insight into their actual feelings, thoughts and motivations. Lorelai and Rory babble so much but say so very little. We spent a lot of screentime with Logan (too much for this particular viewer!) yet key issues about his feelings, opinions and general situation remained totally unanswered. (I found it helpful to read MC's take in a Time article that's now posted in the media thread and, sadly, learned more about how we were probably supposed to perceive the Logan/Rory thing from those brief replies than from six hours of this revival!) 

I don't need or want everything explicitly spelled out, but there's a difference between emotional complexity/deliberately intriguing ambiguity and just sloppy storytelling, and for me this revival contained too much of the latter. 

I already lost the quote---which might be a blessing since I can never quite master this site's quote function anyway!---but I love what someone said about Rory consistently being someone who cares about the very few people she's close to but is totally oblivious and indifferent to the feelings of people in general. (Most notably, but not solely, Lindsay, Shane, Odette, etc. ) And it makes so much sense, because Rory was raised to rely on, care about and consider very, very few people. The town at large may have adored her, but Rory was fine gracing them with polite smiles and her occasional presence while gently mocking them from afar---she wasn't really PART of any real group/community in SH, Chilton, or even Yale (let's be real, those were Logan's friends, and she was just drifting along for the ride) and was always so shielded from adversity and consequences that she's never had to consider the feelings of people outside of her very small, select circle. 

So the more I think of Rory's storylines in the revival, the more I think it makes a depressing sort of sense...but that doesn't mean I especially enjoyed watching it :)

Edited November 29, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Eyes High]

4 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

How could I forget that one?  I think maybe I let it pass because the Holly Go Lightly salute seemed more in keeping with Rory's sartorial choices to me, however improbable for the occasion.

Eh, it would have been better for Rory if she had been wearing a black sheath a la Holly Golightly. At least Holly Golightly could dress.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Eyes High

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, JayInChicago said:

Like I would never think Paris was still hung up on effing TRISTAN. She's had three serious boyfriends/partners/husband that we know of and she's PARIS FUCKING GELLAR. 

She admitted she hated that one nonlook from him turned her into the insecure Chilton teenager. If this was their first encounter since leaving Chilton, I get why he still affects her. Going back to the place where all that turmoil happened can bring it all up again, even if you think you're over it. Teenage insecurities can come back at any time.

5 hours ago, TyranAmiros said:

I've always thought that the guy Rory would end up with hadn't been introduced in the show yet--and it's one place I think the show should have taken a risk by introducing a new character rather than the route they took here.

Same here. The reasons for not marrying Logan are still valid, even assuming the baby is his, and it would be nice to see that Rory is showing a broader interest in men. But ASP is a shipper, apparently.

47 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Oh goody, another stray quote box.

You can delete it by putting the cursor in the top left corner; click on the box icon and it should disappear. (I don't know if it's the same for a tablet or phone, though.)

Edited November 29, 2016 by dubbel zout

[amensisterfriend]

Quote

 She admitted she hated that one nonlook from him turned into the insecure Chilton teenager. If this was their first encounter since leaving Chilton, I get why he still affects her. Going back to the place where all that turmoil happened can bring it all up again, even if you think you're over it. Teenage insecurities can come back at any time.

 

 

Paris' reaction actually rang true for me. It was a little extreme, but what about Paris isn't?! I've been out of high school longer than Paris has been and recently had to see a bunch of high school classmates for the first time. (Which...*shudder* They should have offered free therapy in lieu of a gift bag as we exited, because that was highly traumatic!) Anyway, I'm not going through a divorce or currently quite as vulnerable as Paris is, and even for me it brought back a ton of old feelings and insecurities and, honestly, some people even reverted back to high school behavior. 

I'm still clinging to the increasingly faint hope that Rory will eventually become a teacher---and not because she feels it's a fallback option that she now has to resort to, but because she realizes that it's really what she wants and is well-suited to do. Maybe she could even consult Max Medina on the pros and cons of that career path. While I wasn't crazy about Max/Lorelai, for some reason I felt Rory was more authentically connected to Max than any of Lorelai's other love interests, and I'd love to see one more scene with them.  

Edited November 29, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[stillshimpy]

7 hours ago, Tikichick said:

The detour into ASP's closet did her no favors. 

I thought she looked adorable. 

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

You can delete it by putting the cursor in the top left corner; click on the box icon and it should disappear. (I don't know if it's the same for a tablet or phone, though.)

 

Thanks, double zout, that's not working for me, which is why I have stray quote boxes.  I appreciate the attempt, though. :-) 

[cantbeflapped]

10 minutes ago, amensisterfriend said:

Rory was more authentically connected to Max

This and the fact that I picture Rory finding her true love as a teacher at Chilton....gave we some super weird fan fic-y thoughts!

[ShadowFacts]

3 minutes ago, amensisterfriend said:

I'm still clinging to the increasingly faint hope that Rory will eventually become a teacher---and not because she feels it's a fallback option that she now has to resort to, but because she realizes that it's really what she wants and is well-suited to do. Maybe she could even consult Max Medina on the pros and cons of that career path. While I wasn't crazy about Max/Lorelai, for some reason I felt Rory was more authentically connected to Max than any of Lorelai's other love interests, and I'd love to see one more scene with them.  

I would like that, too.  She was comfortable in that classroom and was connecting with the kids it seemed.  It was just one exposure so it doesn't mean much, but her love of learning may translate to teaching.   Maybe the old headmaster planted a seed.  She could be a teacher who also writes.  Lorelei managed an inn and finished college, Rory has always had a strong work ethic, and she'll have family support with her child. 

Just now, stillshimpy said:

Thanks, double zout, that's not working for me, which is why I have stray quote boxes.  I appreciate the attempt, though. :-) 

What works for me is CTRL right click and an option comes up for deleting quote box or contents.

[stillshimpy]

Guys, I'm on a Mac desktop, just some things don't work in this forum that would on other computers.   I tried that with both the command and the control key, but again, thank you, Shadow Facts, I appreciate the attempts to save me from my impending, obnoxious eccentricity.  :-) 

Edited November 29, 2016 by stillshimpy

[amensisterfriend]

Quote

She was comfortable in that classroom and was connecting with the kids it seemed.  It was just one exposure so it doesn't mean much, but her love of learning may translate to teaching.   Maybe the old headmaster planted a seed.  She could be a teacher who also writes.  Lorelei managed an inn and finished college, Rory has always had a strong work ethic, and she'll have family support with her child.

Exactly! And, not that ASP has been overly concerned with giving us a realistic depiction of finances and socioeconomic class over the years (I would insert a 'massive understatement' emoticon here if one existed!), but most novel writers have to rely on another job and source of income, so choosing one wouldn't preclude continuing with the other.

Quote

Rory was more authentically connected to Max

Quote

 

This and the fact that I picture Rory finding her true love as a teacher at Chilton....gave we some super weird fan fic-y thoughts!

 

 

HOW DARE YOU?! ;) Now I need even more therapy for the images this has lodged in my brain. Seriously, I always liked the idea of Rory being with a teacher/professor type as well :)

Edited November 29, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[JessDVD]

Well - it's been awhile since our last go on the original 7 seasons, but we watched all 4 of AYITL. Disjointed observations abound:

I think Mr. DVD and I both actually said after Winter (we watched 1 on Friday, 2 & 3 on Saturday, and 4 on Sunday), that already at that point we felt like none of the characters were portrayed as having done much of anything in the last 10 years except Paris, and as the rest went on, I would add Lane and Zach. This observation of course has been made many times on these boards. While I still enjoyed watching the revival, I really felt like that simple choice in writing basically everyone else, really diminished my enjoyment, and almost all of my complaints are side effects of that choice.

L&L - That surrogacy thing. Yeah, that's a conversation that I'm pretty sure most normal people have at the front end of the relationship, like when Lorelai would have been about 39 and facing the end of her childbearing years, not when Lorelei is almost 50 and likely in perimenopause. E for effort though. L&L are terrible communicators, yes, but I still say "but still".

Rory & Logan - Gross. Just gross. I hated Rory when she was with Logan in the original recipe, and all 4 eps reminded me of why. I get the "I can't quit you" thing, but I hate that Rory would end up as Logan's freaking side piece. Gross. And I maybe, maybe could have forgiven it if they had offered any kind of context, but as it was, it looked like they had been bed buddies whenever it was convenient for Logan for who knows how much of the last 10 years and that is just not where I see 16 year old driven Rory going. I also despise the LDB and this again reminded me of why. What sanctimonious obnoxious jerks.

Rory's job prospects - Again, context would have helped? The whole way it was written definitely made more sense for her being 24ish, floundering in getting her career started. I could have bought what was written with a line about how she'd been working in (insert whatever of editing, a local newspaper, whatever) and taking freelance jobs like the New Yorker on the side, and then (insert whatever thing that eliminates the had been working in part). And Rory being totally unprepared as a 32 yo to pound the pavement in looking for a good story/getting a job is also pretty unrealistic for someone who's supposedly been living in NYC and presumably doing *something* for pay so she can pay the rent on her apartment for 10 years. Again - realistic for age 24ish, but falls flat for me at age 32.

Rory and the book - I may vomit. Yeah, I'm totally sure that everyone who would be included in that book is super thrilled about their lives being portrayed by Rory. A fiction book that draws upon bits of their lives, perhaps, but it came off as, I can't seem to write anything decent so I'll write my life story! Also, as if anyone writes a Mary Sue memoir, then is catapulted into a life of financial ease as a famous author. I thought Lorelei was totally justified in telling her to not do that, and if Rory cared about her mother at all, would respect that.

I am pretending that Netflix cut off the last four words of Fall and thus am saying nothing about them here.

Everything with Emily was awesome. The death of Richard was handled beautifully. Very realistically portrayed for everyone, and while I'm not totally sure that Emily in Fall was making out-of-character impulsive decisions in grief that she will later regret - I still liked it. My only thing with those scenes is that while my Spanish from majoring in it in college is rusty, I felt like I could understand some of what Berta was saying, because it was Spanish (I think?! She did speak pretty fast), and they had that exchange about how the gardener and the pool guy or whatever it was, couldn't understand her and didn't know what language it was? Weird.

OK, I confess that I am one who liked the musical, even though it was a total scene chewer. I could have done without Sutton Foster but I love Christian Borle and immediately recognized him, then thought, no way would he be in this, and then remembered, this is legitimate TV so it might actually be him and it was him. So he saved that scene (those scenes) for me.

And finally - I think someone pointed this out somewhere on here, and I think it's an interesting observation. Lorelei at age 32 was running a business, and opened her own not long after, AND got to that point at age 32, without her parents' help or (correct me if I'm wrong) any financial help, with a child and as a single mom. Rory, for all that she had, fancy private school, Yale, no student loans, etc, at age 32 - well, not so much. I don't know if the writers intended that to be a commentary of any sort, something along the lines of, while they both came from privilege, Lorelei built her life without it and by age 32 was pretty successful, while Rory built her life with it and at age 32 - ok, having a couple bylines isn't nothing, but it's not a "sustainable career", at least.

I haven't decided if I want a season 2 of AYITL, but I'm certain that if there is, I will watch it.

[moonb]

12 minutes ago, JessDVD said:

And finally - I think someone pointed this out somewhere on here, and I think it's an interesting observation. Lorelei at age 32 was running a business, and opened her own not long after, AND got to that point at age 32, without her parents' help or (correct me if I'm wrong) any financial help, with a child and as a single mom. Rory, for all that she had, fancy private school, Yale, no student loans, etc, at age 32 - well, not so much. I don't know if the writers intended that to be a commentary of any sort, something along the lines of, while they both came from privilege, Lorelei built her life without it and by age 32 was pretty successful, while Rory built her life with it and at age 32 - ok, having a couple bylines isn't nothing, but it's not a "sustainable career", at least.

It's an interesting, if imperfect, mirroring that Lorelai's unplanned pregnancy became a reason for her to carve out a life that suited her, and Rory's is a reason to leave the life she thought she wanted behind.

[CalamityBoPeep]

46 minutes ago, amensisterfriend said:

 

HOW DARE YOU?! ;) Now I need even more therapy for the images this has lodged in my brain. Seriously, I always liked the idea of Rory being with a teacher/professor type as well :)

 

56 minutes ago, cantbeflapped said:

This and the fact that I picture Rory finding her true love as a teacher at Chilton....gave we some super weird fan fic-y thoughts!

Just so long as her true love is not the father of one of the students. Because... Like Mother, Like Daughter, in Amy's world. Be careful what you wish for. ;-)

[stillshimpy]

I'm not actually a fan of Rory being pregnant.   I think it's too on-the-nose in trying to achieve the cyclical nature of seasons, I'm so incredibly sick of women having their lives defined by unexpected reproduction and I really didn't want ASP to turn around and do the same thing to Rory.  I could drone on about this but my feelings on unexpected pregnancy storylines practically litter the internet.  

That said, I do think that was probably some of the best acting Alexis Bledel has ever done, that moment when she looks around the square and it started to dawn on me, "Oh fuck.....they're going there....? Noooooooooo!" ....and I still cried because Alexis already having a child added a lot of depth, maturity and emotional resonance to her "I'm pregnant".   That was Rory at her best, the most resolved.  Whatever vagabond journey she's been on professionally and personally, it ended there and she was ready to take the stabilizing steps to give that kid a life. 

29 minutes ago, JessDVD said:

Rory & Logan - Gross. Just gross.

It really was.  Don't mistake me, good work on the part of all actors, but there's no getting around it, for me:  I'm not a puritanical person.  I think other people get to define their relationships, right up to and including their feelings about sexual fidelity.   Since we really don't know what Logan's thing with Odette is or isn't, it's possible she knows he'll never be the faithful sort.  Maybe she isn't either.  We don't know....and yet, it's still gross.  You know, just don't get married if you're in that space.  It's not difficult.   Live your life, own your truth, all that can be yehaw levels of empowering, it is just not what that was.   No one finds empowerment through skulking, concealment and jealousy. 

I always liked Logan in spite of the character and because I like the actor.  Not in that "isn't he dreamy?" way either.  I think Czuchry was handed an awful role and ended up doing well with it both here and in the series.  I think the point of their....just slimy, really....relationship in this was that Rory isn't "Ace" .   The entire four episode series just showed us that she kind of doesn't really have the right kind of hustle for any of this stuff.   Mitchum was always right about her journalistic skills and drive,  Logan encouraged her to live a life of pretense, including pretending that their Vegas relationship was the stuff of adulthood, rather than the pathetic emotional grasping of a two people unwilling to fully launch into adulthood.   

I think Logan was an excellent villain here because he wasn't mwhahahahaing it up with evil.  He was just constantly the passport to her lesser self.  

Edited November 29, 2016 by stillshimpy

[Proclone]

49 minutes ago, amensisterfriend said:

I'm still clinging to the increasingly faint hope that Rory will eventually become a teacher---and not because she feels it's a fallback option that she now has to resort to, but because she realizes that it's really what she wants and is well-suited to do. Maybe she could even consult Max Medina on the pros and cons of that career path. While I wasn't crazy about Max/Lorelai, for some reason I felt Rory was more authentically connected to Max than any of Lorelai's other love interests, and I'd love to see one more scene with them.  

I kind of would have liked a Max cameo while Rory was back at Chilton.  I also think that Rory would be suited to becoming a teacher.  What the headmaster "smelled" on her when he asked her about getting her masters and teaching was not failure as Rory thought, but rather her ability to connect with the students. I hope if there is a second Netflix series that she'll realize this herself.  To be honest I never quite understood while Rory was so set on being a journalist.  I don't think it ever really suited her personality.  I think her handling of Naomi Shropshire kind of proved that.  Someone really skilled at interviewing probably could have get her more on point and/or gotten something usable out of their interactions.  There are plenty of writers that manage to drag autobiographies out of various celebrities that probably couldn't string a complete sentence together. Interviewing is a skill totally separate from writing.  She might be an excellent writer but not a great interviewer. Rory always seemed more likely to teach literature and maybe write on the side then be a hard hitting journalist.

7 minutes ago, JessDVD said:

Everything with Emily was awesome. The death of Richard was handled beautifully. Very realistically portrayed for everyone, and while I'm not totally sure that Emily in Fall was making out-of-character impulsive decisions in grief that she will later regret - I still liked it. My only thing with those scenes is that while my Spanish from majoring in it in college is rusty, I felt like I could understand some of what Berta was saying, because it was Spanish (I think?! She did speak pretty fast), and they had that exchange about how the gardener and the pool guy or whatever it was, couldn't understand her and didn't know what language it was? Weird.

It may have been that Berta spoke a weird dialect.  I speak some Spanish (I understand a fair amount) to be perfectly honest I didn't really pay enough attention to her lines to be able to understand her if it was Spanish (I'm honestly not 100% sure).  But I once had a patient that spoke a strange dialect of Spanish (she was from a Central American country, I don't recall which one) and would often say things that neither myself nor the professional medical translators would be able to understand.  So I wouldn't be surprised i Berta was speaking a dialect like that or even a indigenous language like Quechua which is spoken in places like Peru. 

[stillshimpy]

4 minutes ago, Proclone said:

It may have been that Berta spoke a weird dialect.  I speak some Spanish (I understand a fair amount) to be perfectly honest I didn't really pay enough attention to her lines to be able to understand her if it was Spanish (I'm honestly not 100% sure).

 

I read somewhere that was Peruvian but I don't know how accurate that was.  I ended up liking the Roberta storyline -- even if I never did recognize Rose Abodo in the role -- because it redeemed Emily in the strangest way possible.  It made up for the endless string of maids and gave her a surrogate family to love, that she could never hurt with her words. 

[amensisterfriend]

Quote

He was just constantly the passport to her lesser self.  

Wonderful turn of phrase, and I totally agree. I can actually buy into the idea that  Rory and Logan do love each other, but ultimately...so what?! They still don't bring out each other's best selves, they're each other's excuse to cling to the past in lieu of facing the future, and whatever connection they have now is built on a foundation of deceit. (I'd mention the pain that their affair could bring to many other people, but it's not like Logan or Rory has ever been concerned about that sort of thing, so why bother?!) Logan, while willing to drunkenly jump off a cliff, still can't take the risk of breaking free of his family. Rory likes that he makes her smile, reminisce on comparatively better times and just generally feel things at a time when she's hollow and lost, but ultimately she always seems to make terrible choices while he's in her life. (NOT blaming him for that, by the way---I'm just saying that their dynamic doesn't bring out her best self, and that self is someone who Rory needs to rediscover and redefine on her own!)

I've always had a personal pet peeve about how often this show has trotted out pregnancy as a plot device throughout the series, and I'm also really uncomfortable with the idea that having a kid will bring stability and happiness to someone who's not already in possession of it---in my experience, kids can cause a whole lot of chaos too, and the best parents are usually those who are already in a decent place psychologically BEFORE they have a child, not those who rely on the kids to turn them into better people :)  That said, I like the interpretation some have offered here---that the pregnancy isn't just ASP's obsession with bringing things "full circle" whether or not they do a disservice to characters, themes and storylines but, for Rory, a sign that she's finally leaving the past behind and focusing on the future---a future that will include paying attention to the needs and desires of someone other than herself :)   

Edited November 29, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[amensisterfriend]

Quote

Just so long as her true love is not the father of one of the students. Because... Like Mother, Like Daughter, in Amy's world. Be careful what you wish for. ;-)

Ha! Well, if said adult is single and available (like, to be fair, Lorelai's beaux tended to be when she got together with them), Rory probably won't be interested anyway ;) 

[shron17]

14 hours ago, Eyes High said:

So it sounds like there was a bit of a passive-aggressive clash between ASP/DP and Matt Czuchry over whether Logan should be played as a callous Christopher type, which is what ASP/DP wanted, or as a loving, sensitive man cruelly trapped by circumstance, which is what Matt Czuchry thought he could sell as a credible character choice as an actor. This resulted in a disconnect between the writing--showing a Logan who is comfortable with his choices and shows no interest in ending his engagement--and Matt Czuchry's acting.

Heard this also, but I'm not sure it really matters.  There are plenty of people who still think Christopher is a loving, sensitive man cruelly trapped by circumstances.  It actually makes it more emotional for it to be played that way, because you eventually come to realize what he says and the way he says it don't really matter if he doesn't make it real by his actions.

I found Rory's floundering realistic.  Partly because it makes sense to me that a person for whom so many have high expectations would hesitate to "settle" for anything less than the best.  In that sense her pregnancy somewhat lets her off the hook from those expectations so that anything she accomplishes as a single parent is the gravy.

5 hours ago, Proclone said:

I was fully expecting not to really enjoy it but overall I did.  I agree that the town musical was way too long, and I thought Lorelai's reaction to it was strange for her.  This is the woman who knows which bathroom in her house is more comfortable for Kurt to throw up in, you'd think she'd embrace the hysterical weirdness that was that musical.

And I think this was the whole point of Lorelai's crisis.  She's not the person she thought she was anymore and isn't sure why.  She doesn't enjoy the same crazy things that everyone else is so clearly enjoying.  It takes the lyrics of that last song to put into words what she's feeling.  That said, Lorelai's moment of clarity is a little confusing to me.  I thought I understood what she was feeling in that line about standing still while the world was moving past her.  But after the moment of silence the first thing she did was call Emily with that great story.  Okay, so did that mean she just remembered that birthday?  And what did that have to do with the realization she and Luke should have already gotten married?  Any insight welcome.

[cantbeflapped]

14 minutes ago, shron17 said:

 But after the moment of silence the first thing she did was call Emily with that great story.  Okay, so did that mean she just remembered that birthday?  And what did that have to do with the realization she and Luke should have already gotten married?  Any insight welcome.

I've been wanting to discuss the EXACT same thing!  I was confused by Lorelai's midlife crisis and her mountaintop experience.  She played the birthday memory like a suppressed memory...almost felt like we were headed for some kind of abuse revaluation.  What was the deal?  I feel like they were trying to sell Lorelais resistance to marriage as tied to her rebellion against her parents (thus making it appropriate that she was ready to marry after the mountaintop experience), but that makes no sense given her desire for marriage throughout the series.  

[dubbel zout]

27 minutes ago, Proclone said:

a hard hitting journalist

I think a lot of her problem was that she couldn't square the reality of being a journalist with her romantic ideas of being one. She wanted to write stories only about things that she connected with. You have to earn that privilege, and even when you do, you still accept stories that might not really appeal to you but will allow you to pay your credit card bill. 

I think she'd be a great teacher, and she'd probably be a good high school newspaper advisor, too. But all of that is too dull and pitiful for Ms. Rory Gilmore.

[zxy556575]

For me, it's not so much that I mind Rory floundering in her career; that's actually realistic for a freelance writer. What totally bugs me is that so much was left to our imagination. Viewers and critics have made the case that Rory seemed at once too successful for someone her age and too unsuccessful to even have made a living. Which is it? Gah, Palladinos. (Of course in their la la la land, no time has actually passed and one fucking Talk of the Town piece is evidence of a lamination-worthy career.)

I'm kind of neutral on the revival as a whole but was only a casual viewer of the original. Considering the number of likes given to positive/complimentary comments here, I wish more of those people would post to give me a more balanced perspective. It's like the old saying about customer service -- people will tell seven others about a negative experience but share positive experiences much less often. ;)

[sacrebleu]

Quote

Again, context would have helped? The whole way it was written definitely made more sense for her being 24ish, floundering in getting her career started. 

Cosign! I think the whole YITL would have worked set 5 years after graduation, instead of 10. L/L could have had the surrogacy conversation as Lorelei reached the end of her child-bearing window (early 40's-- as opposed to pushing 50).

Rory could have achieved some professional success (the New Yorker article) then grew disillusioned when it didn't lead to bigger and better things. The whole thing with Logan makes more sense if she's still in her 20's and figuring stuff out. The L&DB nonsense could be justifiable if they're just a few years out of school. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by sacrebleu
because they're and their are not the same

[Eyes High]

52 minutes ago, shron17 said:

Heard this also, but I'm not sure it really matters.  There are plenty of people who still think Christopher is a loving, sensitive man cruelly trapped by circumstances.  It actually makes it more emotional for it to be played that way, because you eventually come to realize what he says and the way he says it don't really matter if he doesn't make it real by his actions.

That's true. Actions speak louder than words, after all.

Quote

I think she'd be a great teacher, and she'd probably be a good high school newspaper advisor, too. But all of that is too dull and pitiful for Ms. Rory Gilmore.

Rory pretty much tells Jess that she views the offer of a teaching position as a charitable gesture born of Charleston's perception that her current career wasn't working out. I can't say that I disagree with her; when explaining the reasons for his job offer, Charleston (not unkindly, I think) tells her "We all go through bad stretches" and references her current rootless living situation. It is an implicit acknowledgment that her journalism career is not going well, and the offer would also involve Rory abandoning journalism as Charleston is aware. If she was a highly successful journalist, Charleston extending a job offer for her to teach a non-journalism subject at Chilton would be an insult. At least the SH Gazette job is technically in the journalism field.

More generally, I think we can cut Rory some slack for resisting non-journalism career paths because pursuing them would mean admitting she had failed, and because she's still grappling with the reality that the career that she dreamed of as a child, that she worked so hard for, and which briefly looked so promising (New Yorker piece, e.g.), ultimately ended in failure. That's an incredibly bitter pill for anyone to swallow. She does get to the point where she can look someone in the eye and admit that journalism didn't work out for her (to Christopher, in Fall), but it takes her a while to be able to do that. Rory manages the revelation that her career is dead in the water fairly quickly, given her somewhat recent successes referenced on the show; it takes a lot of people a lifetime to admit that their career is a failure and they need to change paths. 

Taking Rory's thoughts on the subject out of the matter, I do think she would make an excellent English teacher. And even though I've posted in the 1x04 thread about how Rory would be dumb to get her Master's just because a headmaster close to retirement made her a casual promise of potential future employment, it seemed like the revival left the door open for Rory to go back to school. She says in Spring that she thought about getting her Master's or PhD years ago, but that she was impatient to get out into the world. Well, now that the world has chewed her up and spat her out again, in her words, maybe she'll be more amenable to looking into graduate school again. Being a graduate student is fairly baby-friendly, too, from what I understand: flexible hours, e.g.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Eyes High

[Melancholy]

My theory on Lorelai's epiphany. Sutton Foster's ballad which so touched Lorelai was about how she felt she had to be unbreakable when she is breaking down. Lorelai took that as a literal call to arms on unbreakability by trying to perform the endurance feat of Wild. Based on the book because it's more pure. IMO, Lorelai felt like challenging herself that way because she believed she'd live and continue to live disappointments.

Her childhood is a memory blend of ugliness, especially as she and Emily were fighting. What's more, Lorelai was resistant to sharing an appropriate loving anecdote about Richard because she and Emily were in a fight and Lorelai didn't want to lose by making meaningful concessions. This is why Lorelai pushes the "Admit you made a silly mistake about the portrait" the next time she and Emily meet so hard. Lorelai was both trying to win but also projecting her own desire to alter the dimensions of her life (even though she likes the general form) but she can't admit failure. She married the wrong guy after a failed engagement broke up her relationship with the right guy so she was gun shy for the next ten years to get married for real. 

I think her campfire conversation with the other Wild ladies lends perspective. She actually has a good life unlike the book character. She thinks Luke is a good man and they're happy together. She think Rory is amazing. Even though she just fought with them. She's not Wonderwoman but there's plenty of wonder in the world she made for herself. I think that leads her to gracefully (for Lorelai) accept that she can't walk the trail. She didn't even start the Wonderwoman unbreakable PCT trail but she still experienced beauty and wonder in her view of the nature and she was more than deserving of that even though she breakabl-y flaked on the license. 

I think that led to dramatic self acceptance. Even though it could be taken as concession in her battle with Emily, Lorelai still called so they could both have the healing and goodness of reliving a great memory of Richard. Even though she missed the chance at having a first perfect marriage at the right time all landing on a June 3 date for a huge, perfectly planned affair, she's still more than entitled to ask for marriage instead of acting like that experience passed her by or buying into Emily's toxic words that she trampled on Luke's desires so she has to focus on reversing that instead of expressing her own desires. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Melancholy

[cantbeflapped]

Melancholy, the song and the campfire conversation are two scenes I've been thinking I need to rewatch to connect the dots.  I'll have to do that and consider your take.  

I'm looking forward to my husband's take on this too (will probably be a couple of weeks before he gets to it).  We both view Gilmore Girls as Lorelai's coming of age story and he tends to be pretty insightful about these things.  

[Randomosity]

5 hours ago, cantbeflapped said:

But, a baby isn't necessarily bad news.  It's often downright good news.  Now sure, most picture themselves married first.  But, as someone so wisely pointed out (I believe in this thread) 32 is a pretty good age to get started if you want to start a family. Although Rory never explicitly stated that desire, I think it's a safe bet that motherhood was something she aspired to.  Coincidentally, I was 32 when I had my first child.  I often feel like an older mom.  Some of my peers are grandmas now and my oldest is just 13.

Yeah, agreed; it's not bad news. Regardless of the father and whatever Rory's relationship(s) turn out to be, she and the kid will surely be just fine. I'm 34 and unfortunately still single and on the hunt for an academic tenure track job. So kids have not yet happened. If they ever do, be it with a guy or on my own, I'll almost certainly be 38+, aka pretty old. There are absolutely times that I think 'hmm, too bad there was never an accidental pregnancy along the way'. Not that it would have been great at the time, but hey, I'd be a mom now instead of facing the prospect of possibly never being one. So while it may not seem it for her now, given her job/relationship situation, it is actually going to be longer term good news for Rory.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On November 28, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Taryn74 said:

I think it's even possible Rory didn't know Logan was engaged before Mitchum brought it up

I TOTALLY thought she did not know and she handled it with aplomb. My daughter and husband disagree and thought she already knew.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Yeah, agreed; it's not bad news. Regardless of the father and whatever Rory's relationship(s) turn out to be, she and the kid will surely be just fine.

For Rory, the news is more neutral because she has an emotional and financial support system that will essentially raise the child for her if she wishes.  In normal non-Stars Hollow circumstances, it would probably be less positive.    

[Tikichick]

21 minutes ago, Randomosity said:

Yeah, agreed; it's not bad news. Regardless of the father and whatever Rory's relationship(s) turn out to be, she and the kid will surely be just fine. I'm 34 and unfortunately still single and on the hunt for an academic tenure track job. So kids have not yet happened. If they ever do, be it with a guy or on my own, I'll almost certainly be 38+, aka pretty old. There are absolutely times that I think 'hmm, too bad there was never an accidental pregnancy along the way'. Not that it would have been great at the time, but hey, I'd be a mom now instead of facing the prospect of possibly never being one. So while it may not seem it for her now, given her job/relationship situation, it is actually going to be longer term good news for Rory.

I'm far less concerned with how good the news is for Rory than I am with how equipped she will be emotionally in raising a child when she seems so rudderless in many aspects of her own life.  I just can't blindly accept she'll summon the capabilities of raising someone to be a caring and compassionate human being when she shows precious little signs of it herself.  Boggles my mind that someone who has drawn so heavily on the support and empathy of those around her never seems to have the slightest interest in showing the same for others.

[Melancholy]

I think Rory had to have known about Odette. She would have confronted Logan if she was lied to like that. I just think it's possible Mitchum recognized Rory at a classic Mistress Lunch where Logan paying the check just goes right back into the family coffers and where the servers are paid to be discreet for Huntzberger men. Mitchum could have thought Rory didn't know about the engagement and thus, stagily worked it into the conversation so any ugliness about Rory throwing a mistress fit could be nipped in the bud early. In a Mitchum "Lets tell the ugly truth sooner rather than later."...To the point where Mitchum just seems eager to say the ugly comments ASAP in the name of truth telling. Like a Cordelia Chase "Tact just isn't saying true stuff."

[stillshimpy]

So on the subject of Matt Czuchry deciding to hit different notes than Amy and Dan wanted him to: Thank goodness.  ASP and DP have always had an overly simplistic view of male characters.  I think Czuchry's right:  Logan does love Rory, it's just that not all loves are healthy or good for people.  Logan's love for Rory and her love for him are not in the realm of healthy.   Someone can love you to death and you them and the pairing can still be pretty much toxic for you.    

[racked]

16 hours ago, Eyes High said:

ETA: I read a post-revival interview with Matt Czuchry at Time.com. It looks like he was given no information as to Odette and Logan's backstory and chose to portray it as familial obligation, which explains his acting choices. He also seems to imply pretty heavily that ASP and DP were pushing the Logan=Christopher agenda pretty hard in the writing, and that he didn't like that, because he didn't think he could credibly sell it to the audience, so he tried to act in a way that showed a Logan who loved and cared about Rory rather than pushing the Logan/Christopher parallel.

So it sounds like there was a bit of a passive-aggressive clash between ASP/DP and Matt Czuchry over whether Logan should be played as a callous Christopher type, which is what ASP/DP wanted, or as a loving, sensitive man cruelly trapped by circumstance, which is what Matt Czuchry thought he could sell as a credible character choice as an actor. This resulted in a disconnect between the writing--showing a Logan who is comfortable with his choices and shows no interest in ending his engagement--and Matt Czuchry's acting. It also sounds like Alexis Bledel and Matt Czuchry were given no background information on the storyline which could have better informed their acting choices, which given the lack of detail in the scripts themselves seems like a pretty fucking egregious omission in my opinion. No wonder that storyline was so repellent and confusing to viewers; the actors themselves were completely confused and repelled.

I just read that interview after seeing your post, and it was very enlightening. I felt both actors played Logan and Rory as being completely in love - and it is clear Matt intended it to appear that way.  He said something interesting about how Logan always sees Rory as someone who doesn't need anything from him - I think in his mind, he was playing Logan as someone who doesn't think Rory wants him in any other way than the relationship they have.  But clearly ASP had different ideas, so there was a total disconnect there.

[Melancholy]

To some extent, Rory should have done Wild. Rory was in a more high rent without substance abuse downward spiral like Stray. The infidelity and career flailing match up. She had to walk herself back into being the good person that her single mother gave everything up to raise right. I guess it'd be too on the nose, lol. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, cantbeflapped said:

I've been wanting to discuss the EXACT same thing!  I was confused by Lorelai's midlife crisis and her mountaintop experience.  She played the birthday memory like a suppressed memory...almost felt like we were headed for some kind of abuse revaluation.  What was the deal?  I feel like they were trying to sell Lorelais resistance to marriage as tied to her rebellion against her parents (thus making it appropriate that she was ready to marry after the mountaintop experience), but that makes no sense given her desire for marriage throughout the series.  

My thinking is similar.  I felt like in relating that memory, she was able to give her mother something she knew her mother very much wanted and needed, and in doing so, freed herself from the endless fight/rebellion.  Then she could do what she wanted to do but previously would not, lest she cede some ground to Emily.  I thought that freedom from that old, unhealthy dynamic showed up again when she easily asked Emily for the Luke's diner money to go to her Dragonfly expansion, and readily agreed to visits to Nantucket.  I'm not saying it will be all sunshine and rainbows, but I think the two of them really turned a corner together.  Especially Emily - it's not just that she can be nurturing to Berta (heating soup!), she can happily grant a wish to her daughter.  She's come a long way, and what's great is that it's believable to me.  Maybe I'm a sap.

[Emily Thrace]

1 hour ago, Proclone said:

It may have been that Berta spoke a weird dialect.  I speak some Spanish (I understand a fair amount) to be perfectly honest I didn't really pay enough attention to her lines to be able to understand her if it was Spanish (I'm honestly not 100% sure).  But I once had a patient that spoke a strange dialect of Spanish (she was from a Central American country, I don't recall which one) and would often say things that neither myself nor the professional medical translators would be able to understand.  So I wouldn't be surprised i Berta was speaking a dialect like that or even a indigenous language like Quechua which is spoken in places like Peru. 

I thought I heard some Portuguese in their as well. I actually  wondered if they might be Romani since their language seemed to be a mix of Spanish, Portuguese and something else I couldn't quite place. Well that and Berta was played by Rose Abdoo AKA Gypsy which would make it an in joke. I half expected Gypsy to show up at the house at some point to tow Lorelai's jeep home and start carrying on a conversation with Berta.

16 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

So on the subject of Matt Czuchry deciding to hit different notes than Amy and Dan wanted him to: Thank goodness.  ASP and DP have always had an overly simplistic view of male characters.  I think Czuchry's right:  Logan does love Rory, it's just that not all loves are healthy or good for people.  Logan's love for Rory and her love for him are not in the realm of healthy.   Someone can love you to death and you them and the pairing can still be pretty much toxic for you.    

I don't know if I would call Logan and Rory full on toxic. They are dysfunctional sure but their issues were more commitment based than any real personality clash or lack of communication. I also don't think their situation is entirely Logan's fault. As someone pointed out in one of the episode threads Rory turning down his proposal has probably made him gunshy about really committing to Rory without her spelling out what she wants. I read it less as Logan was torn between Rory and Odette and more Odette was a safety net in case  Rory dumped him again. 

I always felt like Rory and Jess were a lot more toxic or at least had the potential to be. Since Jess has all of Luke inability to communicate and Rory was terrible at standing up to him or even getting him to talk at all. Lorelai can draw Luke out or at least confront him when he's hiding. Rory always just took what ever scraps Jess dished out. Even more worrying was Jess's tendency to get pissed off and take it out on Rory. Which Rory because she is sensitive always felt was her fault even when it had nothing to do with her. I'm still not sure t was intentional but Rory and Jess were always a little to close to an abusive cycle for me to root for them. Not that Jess was ever actually abusive but the potential was there and I think that's why I was never team Jess.

I also think in the end Rory isn't Lorelai and Luke isn't Jess and Logan isn't Christopher. As much as I like a full circle story I think Logan of all Rory boyfriends had the most long term potential. He did actually end up being the longest and most stable of all her relationships. He's also the only one who seemed to understand both worlds she came from. Maybe Jess needs to run into Paris again, she wouldn't take any of his crap.

[NumberCruncher]

20 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I don't know if I would call Logan and Rory full on toxic. They are dysfunctional sure but their issues were more commitment based than any real personality clash or lack of communication. I also don't think their situation is entirely Logan's fault. As someone pointed out in one of the episode threads Rory turning down his proposal has probably made him gunshy about really committing to Rory without her spelling out what she wants. I read it less as Logan was torn between Rory and Odette and more Odette was a safety net in case  Rory dumped him again. 

I don't think we can entirely say that Logan was gunshy because Rory turned down his original proposal because as far as ASP is concerned Rory and Logan never got to that point (i.e. she ignored all of the character development in S7).  Based on what MC said in that Time interview it sounds like it truly was more of a struggle between his love for Rory and his duty to his family situation.  I do, however, agree with you that it's not entirely Logan's fault despite people trying to make it out that the only thing Logan cared about was making Rory his "side piece".  He and Rory both clearly agreed to the Vegas arrangement--especially since Rory was always the one to bring it up as a reminder to him.  And she certainly appeared to be enjoying herself when they were together.  I just think it got to a point where Rory realized she wasn't happy with the arrangement and knew it wouldn't work in the long run with what she wanted for herself.

Edited November 29, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[Tikichick]

To viewers the rejected proposal seems like it would be an important factor.  I'm not so sure it exists within the world of a year in the life we just watched.

[CalamitysChild]

Quote

I've always thought that the guy Rory would end up with hadn't been introduced in the show yet--and it's one place I think the show should have taken a risk by introducing a new character rather than the route they took here.  

Before the revival aired, I was kind of hoping that if they had to have Rory end up with someone, they'd pull a HIMYM and introduce someone new late in the game that viewers learned to love by the end. You know, without the way those writers ended things. Clearly I was hoping for too much from ASP.

[stillshimpy]

26 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I don't know if I would call Logan and Rory full on toxic. They are dysfunctional sure but their issues were more commitment based than any real personality clash or lack of communication.

 

That's true, and fair.  

By the way, here's the thing about Czuchry going with the "Logan deeply loves Rory" thing: he's the one being an adult about the story in season seven.  He had that season inform his character choices and that was the right call by most measures, just not Amy and Dan's, however, the "year in a life" series does not exist in a vacuum.  In ten years (hell, even now) hardly any fans will know (or care about) the story of Amy's bad negotiation with the CW (which is how she has termed it)....so season seven exists in the show's canon and fictional universe.  I get that it is super painful for Amy and I understand that. 

I don't really believe that a woman who has called for another cut because of a contraction being errantly used would have let the actor run the ship like that if he hadn't had a point:  when we last saw Logan, he was in love with Rory and very much wanted to marry her.  She turned him down.  Yes, it was ten years ago, but it happened.  That is their emotional history together and it's only actually fair to the audience and all the people who worked hard on season seven to honor the work before.  No matter who wrote it. 

[amensisterfriend]

Yes, it was ten years ago,...

It's kind of amazing how much of this revival would have been easier for me to swallow if it had supposedly taken place about two years after the show ended rather than 10! 

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, amensisterfriend said:

It's kind of amazing how much of this revival would have been easier for me to swallow if it had supposedly taken place about two years after the show ended rather than 10! 

For me, it would have 100% changed the way I took the revival. I would have absolutely been more accepting to not only Rory's career struggles, but also Rory's relationship issues. 

[ShadowFacts]

3 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

I don't really believe that a woman who has called for another cut because of a contraction being errantly used would have let the actor run the ship like that if he hadn't had a point:  when we last saw Logan, he was in love with Rory and very much wanted to marry her.  She turned him down.  Yes, it was ten years ago, but it happened.  That is their emotional history together and it's only actually fair to the audience and all the people who worked hard on season seven to honor the work before.  No matter who wrote it. 

I think the ten years since their break-up has many unknowns, but from what I can see his independence from his father's wishes is over, he is marrying Odette for dynastic reasons as he said.  Since we are in the 21st century, I interpret this dynastic business to mean that Rory remains unsuitable in Huntzberger eyes, though I never understood how Shira the cocktail waitress made the cut, but Rory the Gilmore didn't.  Logan would have to break out of his father's orbit to be with Rory, and he looked very comfortable with the way things were.  The smile rarely left his face, no evidence of angst.  I think the ship has sailed on the two of them.  Well, unless and until impending fatherhood has a life-changing impact on him. 

[Dean Learner]

Quote

Since Jess has all of Luke inability to communicate and Rory was terrible at standing up to him or even getting him to talk at all.

Not exactly sure who this is describing, but it's certainly not a post-season 5 Jess.

[tarotx]

If Logan is coming off a failed California life and is newly back into his father's business and all that entails, living the life that his father wants for him is important especially when nothing is sure with Rory. But again that too works better 2 or 3 years after the season 7 finale. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by tarotx

[dubbel zout]

All the better to link him to Christopher, who is also working in the family business.

[LegalParrot81]

I really never saw Logan as a younger version of Christopher, no matter how hard they tried to sell it now and during the series original run (remember Logan and Christopher having the "I got kicked out of more boarding schools than you" contest.  

To me, Logan always had a much greater sense of responsibility than Christopher could ever hoped for.  Yes, Logan was a Richie Rich, but he was also a pretty honest guy (this Odette thing killed that), who had ambition, wanted to work and succeed on his own terms and actually tried.

 Christopher on the other hand little ambition to either work or succeed, (although to make himself look good he had no qualms about lying to his parents, Richard and Lorelai about his successful startup), or to be a good father.  

Of the two, I'd take Logan in a heart beat if I wanted to be involved with an adult.  If I just wanted to play, I'd choose Christopher.

Edited November 29, 2016 by LegalParrot81

[PamelaMaeSnap]

2 hours ago, amensisterfriend said:

 

It's kind of amazing how much of this revival would have been easier for me to swallow if it had supposedly taken place about two years after the show ended rather than 10! 

I am responding to this without having read the rest of the comments in the past hour so apologies in advance if this is rehashing other responses ...

I had thought that at first BUT ... I hate to sound morbid or gruesome or whatever, but I can't help but think that whatever they might have come up with as a "follow-up" to the first seven seasons could not have turned out as amazing as it did (and for all my quibbling, I absolutely loved it and hope for more) had they done it much earlier because Edward Herrmann (sp?) did not die until 2014 and Emily's arc (along with L and R's in response to Richard's death) was, to me, the most inspiring and emotional ... 

How AWFUL it sounds to say that the show would not have been as moving had Richard been alive ... but, well, it would not have been.  Again, strictly IMHO.

Now, if the OC is saying that the show should have "taken place" two years later even though written/filmed 10 years later, I can see that but on the other hand I don't think all of the characters could have pulled that off. (Though some didn't look like they'd aged at all). 

And I still would like to know what is up with Michel's nose.