Gilmore Girls: A Year in the Life Season 1

[starri]

4 minutes ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

I had thought that at first BUT ... I hate to sound morbid or gruesome or whatever, but I can't help but think that whatever they might have come up with as a "follow-up" to the first seven seasons could not have turned out as amazing as it did (and for all my quibbling, I absolutely loved it and hope for more) had they done it much earlier because Edward Herrmann (sp?) did not die until 2014 and Emily's arc (along with L and R's in response to Richard's death) was, to me, the most inspiring and emotional ... 

There was no reason why they couldn't have been a bit more wibbly-wobbly with the time, and had it not be the nine years that passed in real time.  There's no reason they couldn't have done it with Rory in her late twenties and Lorelai in her early/mid-40s.  Yes, everybody is older, but given that we could buy Keiko Agena playing a decade younger the first time around, I can squint and pretend everyone is five years younger than they actually are.  I think I would have bought that more.

[Emily Thrace]

1 hour ago, Dean Learner said:

Not exactly sure who this is describing, but it's certainly not a post-season 5 Jess.

You mean the Jess who just ended the series pining for Rory through a window instead of talking to her? I get Jess has evolved somewhat since high school but he hasn't become a completely different person. I don't think Jess is ever going to be someone who is good at communicating his emotions its just not who he is.

1 hour ago, LegalParrot81 said:

Of the two, I'd take Logan in a heart beat if I wanted to be involved with an adult.  If I just wanted to play, I'd choose Christopher.

To me the difference between Christopher and Logan is that Logan has spine. Like when he told Lucy about Rory and Marty's history because he just couldn't lie to her.  Even falling in line with his fathers plans seems more like he believes is the right thing to do than just knuckling under. Christopher has always been "weak" and preferred the easy choice. I can't see Logan going along with staying out of his kids life the way Christopher did either. Which could make the next few months interesting. 

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think the ten years since their break-up has many unknowns, but from what I can see his independence from his father's wishes is over, he is marrying Odette for dynastic reasons as he said.  Since we are in the 21st century, I interpret this dynastic business to mean that Rory remains unsuitable in Huntzberger eyes, though I never understood how Shira the cocktail waitress made the cut, but Rory the Gilmore didn't.  Logan would have to break out of his father's orbit to be with Rory, and he looked very comfortable with the way things were.  The smile rarely left his face, no evidence of angst.  I think the ship has sailed on the two of them.  Well, unless and until impending fatherhood has a life-changing impact on him. 

I think it goes back to what Shira said when she first met Rory about Rory wanting to work and not being brought up to be a society wife. Logan's wife would be expected the same role Emily had for Richard and Rory doesn't want that. Rory got a taste of that life during her stint with the DAR and she doesn't want to do that.  Which is probably part of why those two ended up in Vegas. I do think that if Logan had truly pushed back and said I'm going to marry Rory. Mitchum might have actually stood up for her and he probably has the final say. Mitchum always seemed to like Rory and saw the positive influence she had on Logan.  I also think some things have changed in those circles Rory being published and accomplished in her own right wouldn't be the handicap it used to be. Rory probably could continue being a freelancer somewhat as long as she also kept up with some token social obligations. In the end Rory's suitability would be moot as soon as they find out she's pregnant. Most of those families would rather walk over broken glass than have a bastard in the family.  Which is probably also how Shira herself became a Huntzberger.

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

You mean the Jess who just ended the series pining for Rory through a window instead of talking to her? I get Jess has evolved somewhat since high school but he hasn't become a completely different person. I don't think Jess is ever going to be someone who is good at communicating his emotions its just not who he is.

I'd say that he got a lot better at it, at the very least. He's grown and changed ever since Luke gave him that self help book in season 4. He may never be great at communicating his own emotions, but I agree that it's probably just part of who he is as a person. I think he's redeemed himself from his shitty teenager ways, at least. He may not stick around for very long, but when he does show up, he helps people like Luke and Rory in some way. 

I'm putting blame on ASP for directing Milo to do that, to be honest. There were zero hints of Jess/Rory before that last shot. That was ASP, I think, thinking that Jess/Rory fans would be happy to be thrown a bone, but for me as a fan of them, it just made me pissed off. Mostly because Jess is too good for Rory and deserved a much better ending to his character, if this is truly the end. Who would have thought that this may be a valid opinion now? Before the revival, I'd say that they would be on equal par. Jess was a shitty teenager and he made some seriously bad choices. But 32 year old Rory has finally surpassed Jess in bad choices. 

It's sad because I've always liked all the characters in some form or another (except for Anna). But now? I still like the majority of the characters, but Rory's the major one that has disappointed me in her lack of maturity and her basically being stuck as a perpetual 22 year old. She hasn't shown growth or change the way many of the other characters have. 

[tarotx]

Imo Jess isn't a real character right now and really hasn't been for a while. He pretty much comes back to pump up others. It's hard to judge him right now. He does seem to be too good for Rory. I've always liked Jess though and didn't think he was a bad high school boyfriend but he was the current boy when I started watching the show. Now I love This is us so I definitely look at Jess in a good eye. I do hate that he's related to Luke. But only because Jess is supposed to be Rory's Luke and ew (Rory is not Lorelai and if they are going to do parallels I need Rory's Luke not to be related to Luke). Plus they have him actually plant more than motivation. I've always wanted Rory to end up alone. Not alone-alone forever but I loved the way season 7 ended for her. I don't ship though so that is probably why. I like to like the current ship but I never assume it'll last forever and I don't need it too. 

I actually like all of Rory's boyfriends better now because of post GG work. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by tarotx

[TimetravellingBW]

8 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I would like that, too.  She was comfortable in that classroom and was connecting with the kids it seemed.  It was just one exposure so it doesn't mean much, but her love of learning may translate to teaching.   Maybe the old headmaster planted a seed.  She could be a teacher who also writes.  Lorelei managed an inn and finished college, Rory has always had a strong work ethic, and she'll have family support with her child. 

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

More generally, I think we can cut Rory some slack for resisting non-journalism career paths because pursuing them would mean admitting she had failed, and because she's still grappling with the reality that the career that she dreamed of as a child, that she worked so hard for, and which briefly looked so promising (New Yorker piece, e.g.), ultimately ended in failure. That's an incredibly bitter pill for anyone to swallow. She does get to the point where she can look someone in the eye and admit that journalism didn't work out for her (to Christopher, in Fall), but it takes her a while to be able to do that. Rory manages the revelation that her career is dead in the water fairly quickly, given her somewhat recent successes referenced on the show; it takes a lot of people a lifetime to admit that their career is a failure and they need to change paths. 

Rory's scene in the classroom felt like the show was telling us that teaching was the right thing for her. And if she writes successful books on the side, while teaching at one of the best schools on the East Coast (didn't Max say he also taught some courses at Stanford? That's the kind of prestige Chilton teachers are at) that's not a failure on any normal terms. In fact it's much less of a failure than how the show actually left her. But I can totally understand why she'd find it so hard to give up on her lifelong journalism dream. Had they written her journey more organically and carefully it would have been doable: Made Headmaster Charleston's offer less out of pity and more out of genuine admiration, have her actually reading, discussing books with Jess and remembering how much she loves studying literature (did she even pick up a book in the whole revival??), talk about how she just doesn't like the way journalism has changed because it's all short, bit pieces not proper, in-depth writing. 

8 hours ago, JessDVD said:

And finally - I think someone pointed this out somewhere on here, and I think it's an interesting observation. Lorelei at age 32 was running a business, and opened her own not long after, AND got to that point at age 32, without her parents' help or (correct me if I'm wrong) any financial help, with a child and as a single mom. Rory, for all that she had, fancy private school, Yale, no student loans, etc, at age 32 - well, not so much. I don't know if the writers intended that to be a commentary of any sort, something along the lines of, while they both came from privilege, Lorelei built her life without it and by age 32 was pretty successful, while Rory built her life with it and at age 32 - ok, having a couple bylines isn't nothing, but it's not a "sustainable career", at least.

Such good insight and the comparison only makes Rory look even worse. She had all the support, help, funds and encouragement in the world and didn't manage half of what her mother did on a minimum wage job in a potting shed. 

7 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

I always liked Logan in spite of the character and because I like the actor.  Not in that "isn't he dreamy?" way either.  I think Czuchry was handed an awful role and ended up doing well with it both here and in the series.  I think the point of their....just slimy, really....relationship in this was that Rory isn't "Ace" .   The entire four episode series just showed us that she kind of doesn't really have the right kind of hustle for any of this stuff.   Mitchum was always right about her journalistic skills and drive,  Logan encouraged her to live a life of pretense, including pretending that their Vegas relationship was the stuff of adulthood, rather than the pathetic emotional grasping of a two people unwilling to fully launch into adulthood.   

I think Logan was an excellent villain here because he wasn't mwhahahahaing it up with evil.  He was just constantly the passport to her lesser self.  

I have to hand to both Czuchry and David Sutcliffe - they were both given pretty horrible, often 2-dimensional characters and managed to make them somewhat likable and even get people shipping them with Lorelai/Rory. They also seem like pretty nice guys to come back and play such unrewarding characters.

Logan being a passport to Rory's lesser self is the perfect way to describe their entire relationship and why I could never get behind them. They were healthier in s7 but ASP reset that and we're back to Logan being the the guy who makes Rory spoiled, entitled and selfish. (Which I admit really sucks for Logan fans, because he had developed and deserved more).

4 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I always felt like Rory and Jess were a lot more toxic or at least had the potential to be. Since Jess has all of Luke inability to communicate and Rory was terrible at standing up to him or even getting him to talk at all. Lorelai can draw Luke out or at least confront him when he's hiding. Rory always just took what ever scraps Jess dished out. Even more worrying was Jess's tendency to get pissed off and take it out on Rory. Which Rory because she is sensitive always felt was her fault even when it had nothing to do with her. I'm still not sure t was intentional but Rory and Jess were always a little to close to an abusive cycle for me to root for them. Not that Jess was ever actually abusive but the potential was there and I think that's why I was never team Jess.

I think saying Jess has poor communication and the potential to be abusive is pretty unfair on his character development and ignores basically everything post season 4. Yes, he was angry, sullen and terrible at talking about his feelings when he was sixteen. In the revival he seemed more mature than Luke, Lorelai and Rory put together: He was the one actively getting Luke to open up while Luke avoided talking, unlike Lorelai who is still at odds with Emily years later Jess had clearly forgiven Liz for everything and was even helping her out of the crap she kept falling into with no bitterness, (re: The Vegetable Cult) and he was supportive of Rory in a casual, non-demanding way - she wasn't desperately seeking attention while he ignored her. (Tbh, he chased her for attention, as much as she chased him in the original show). And as he mentions his publishing company/book press is going well probably still has the type of friends/social circle we saw in s6. I don't think you can define him by stuff that happened over a decade ago. 

1 hour ago, Emily Thrace said:

You mean the Jess who just ended the series pining for Rory through a window instead of talking to her? I get Jess has evolved somewhat since high school but he hasn't become a completely different person. I don't think Jess is ever going to be someone who is good at communicating his emotions its just not who he is.

47 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm putting blame on ASP for directing Milo to do that, to be honest. There were zero hints of Jess/Rory before that last shot. That was ASP, I think, thinking that Jess/Rory fans would be happy to be thrown a bone, but for me as a fan of them, it just made me pissed off. Mostly because Jess is too good for Rory and deserved a much better ending to his character, if this is truly the end. Who would have thought that this may be a valid opinion now? Before the revival, I'd say that they would be on equal par. Jess was a shitty teenager and he made some seriously bad choices. But 32 year old Rory has finally surpassed Jess in bad choices. 

It seems a big leap to go Jess gazing at Rory through the window = he's still terrible at communication.  And pretty much everything Lady Calypso said regarding that last look. Even as someone who was a Rory/Jess shipper - at least before the revival - I don't think there was any evidence for them before the pining shot. It totally felt like ASP put that in to a) given Jess/Rory fans hope b) a plot hook if the show gets another season. At this point Jess may be the one who inspires/brings out the best in Rory with her life direction and writing the book, but I don't think she's good for him. After the way she treated Paul and her immature, selfish dynamic with Logan, Jess deserves better. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[starri]

From the "Summer" thread

Quote

I forgot about that!  Seriously!  I couldn't read that scene at the beach house either.  Was she happy to get rid of him or was that to show how laid back and go with flow Emily has become?  

It's Emily coming to realize that after 50 years of defining herself as "Mrs. Richard Gilmore," she can now define herself however she wishes, and that means that if she doesn't have a man at her side, it's no biggie.  She starts of the season thinking "half of me is gone," and by the end has come to realize that she's her own person, and a pretty awesome one at that.

They could have handled it a little less clumsily, but when faced with a choice of showing the evolution of one of your main characters or spending a third the episode on a half-baked, lame musical, there's really only one right answer, isn't there?

[msani19]

1 hour ago, TimetravellingBW said:

They were healthier in s7 but ASP reset that and we're back to Logan being the guy who makes Rory spoiled, entitled and selfish. (Which I admit really sucks for Logan fans, because he had developed and deserved more).

 

1

The part that I bolded got me thinking about how we discuss Rory and what I think are the flaws we see in her. It seems like someone else is directing her life and her actions and she has, to use a word I loathe, no agency. Does Logan "make" Rory worse or is Rory comfortable expressing her awfulness (spoiled, entitled, selfish) when she's with Logan? I think that circumstances can amplify or encourage characteristics that we already have within us, they don't create them. Rory blows in whatever direction someone, usually a guy, points her in. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by msani19

[stillshimpy]

 *whisper, in case it hears me and comes back*  Thank you, lordinia, that worked :-)  Cancel my Quote Box Farm plans! 

In fairness to Rory about the contrast between her life and Lorelai's life at 32:  Lorelai put together the life she had to, to sustain them both. Whatever her dreams were, she made providing for Rory her main dream. 

Rory was trying to put together the life she dreamed of and wanted.  That is often a much more difficult task and is likely to change now as she now must put together the life she needs to fit her reality which may not involve pursuing her dreams. 

Or it might because it remains possible that all the surrogacy talk was really just a way of having Lorelai and Luke help raise Rory's baby with her.  

[tarotx]

12 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

......

Or it might because it remains possible that all the surrogacy talk was really just a way of having Lorelai and Luke help raise Rory's baby with her.  

 

 

Lorelai raising her Grandaughter is the worst full circle the show can go to. But the fact that they made Rory have no stability and very transient, makes that altogether a possibility. It leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. This is the reason we needed to know more about Rory's past 10 years or for the mini-series to have taken place a few years after college. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by tarotx

[starri]

10 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Or it might because it remains possible that all the surrogacy talk was really just a way of having Lorelai and Luke help raise Rory's baby with her.  

Barf.

Let's make sure Rory absolutely doesn't have to work for anything.

[Melancholy]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'd say that he got a lot better at it, at the very least. He's grown and changed ever since Luke gave him that self help book in season 4. He may never be great at communicating his own emotions, but I agree that it's probably just part of who he is as a person. I think he's redeemed himself from his shitty teenager ways, at least. He may not stick around for very long, but when he does show up, he helps people like Luke and Rory in some way. 

I'm putting blame on ASP for directing Milo to do that, to be honest. There were zero hints of Jess/Rory before that last shot. That was ASP, I think, thinking that Jess/Rory fans would be happy to be thrown a bone, but for me as a fan of them, it just made me pissed off. Mostly because Jess is too good for Rory and deserved a much better ending to his character, if this is truly the end. Who would have thought that this may be a valid opinion now? Before the revival, I'd say that they would be on equal par. Jess was a shitty teenager and he made some seriously bad choices. But 32 year old Rory has finally surpassed Jess in bad choices. 

It's sad because I've always liked all the characters in some form or another (except for Anna). But now? I still like the majority of the characters, but Rory's the major one that has disappointed me in her lack of maturity and her basically being stuck as a perpetual 22 year old. She hasn't shown growth or change the way many of the other characters have. 

Even if Jess were looking at Rory with a big ole pine-y crush, Jess has good reasons to not act on those feelings. Even though Rory is still lovely, she's a mess and maybe Jess doesn't want to engage with that. Jess lives in Philadelphia and that's like, a four hour drive from Stars Hallow. Who wants to start a relationship with that distance? Who knows which if any of those reasons Jess holds- but I think they're evident enough for me to not criticize Jess for being a bad communicator or even analogize Jess to Luke romantically as Rory's endgame.  

But I'm also of the school where I think people consider risk v. reward when they're dealing with alerting others to romantic feelings and that's a hard calculus and miscalculating isn't much of a human failing as far as I'm concerned. I don't consider it much of a mark against L/L because they were reticent with their feelings in the early seasons because they didn't want to jeopardize their very close friendship. (Although, I loved Lorelai retroactively calling the basket-bidding part of their early romance. Hee! and Aww!)

I really agree that I've always liked most of the characters (except Anna, Chris, and Liz) but Rory really disappointed me in this revival. And Rory's always been one of my favorites and I've often been so inclined to defend her and make excuses for her but she was terrible in the Revival. However, it particularly hurt because Rory wasn't OOC in the Revival. She just indulged all of her existing worst qualities all the time without any of the excuses of youth or villains in her story. It particularly stood out many of the other main characters have grown and become better. That said, I had similar complaints about S7 Lorelai, even though S7 Lorelai didn't do as many terrible things or screw up as universally as Revival Rory. However, I thought Lorelai's growth was terrific in the Revival across the board- trying to make peace with Emily in therapy and then, especially in Fall, building a peaceful, warm life with Luke but then, making sure she got the whole package, growing the Independence Inn and using Richard's "go forth and build an empire" money and thus, growing in business for the first time since early S5. Which I think was really lacking in Lorelai's late-seasons stories. 

....Basically, I think ASP needs to do another Revival for Rory's sake above all. She's ripe for good redemption. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Melancholy

[stillshimpy]

Well, I wasn't saying, "Yay!! Up with Lorelai and Luke raising Rory's baby!!"  just that...they sure paved the road for that as a possibility.  I'd normally say something like, "presented without further comment" but....it would actually make Lorelai and Luke happy too, so I'm okay with it as a concept.  I'm not envisioning Rory taking a powder, by the way.  Just that she seems to have the built-in village thanks to everything Lorelai did in making a life for the two of them. 

[tarotx]

2 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

Well, I wasn't saying, "Yay!! Up with Lorelai and Luke raising Rory's baby!!"  just that...they sure paved the road for that as a possibility.  I'd normally say something like, "presented without further comment" but....it would actually make Lorelai and Luke happy too, so I'm okay with it as a concept.  I'm not envisioning Rory taking a powder, by the way.  Just that she seems to have the built-in village thanks to everything Lorelai did in making a life for the two of them. 

 

 

I know you weren't thinking Lorelai would be a grandma-mama, it's just something I had mentioned earlier. With all this talk about Logan being Rory's Christopher, it made me think how easy they could go complete full circle since Rory was so close to being her own Christopher. Even having this child at the same age as Christopher's second child. This being an option never crossed my mind before this revival. Even when Rory left Yale I didn't have this worry. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by tarotx

[stillshimpy]

For all of us who have wondered over the years, if the show actually knew that Rory was a talented writer but a dreadful journalist:  The Atlantic weighs in. I didn't put that in the media thread, since it's a commentary on characterization, not press.  

38 minutes ago, tarotx said:

I know you weren't thinking Lorelai would be a grandma-mama, it's just something I had mentioned earlier. With all this talk about Logan being Rory's Christopher, it made me think how easy they could go complete full circle since Rory was so close to being her own Christopher

 

That's a great point, tarotx.  

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

You mean the Jess who just ended the series pining for Rory through a window instead of talking to her? I get Jess has evolved somewhat since high school but he hasn't become a completely different person. I don't think Jess is ever going to be someone who is good at communicating his emotions its just not who he is.

Post-Season 4 Jess did a lot of genuine inner work. This came across in Season 6--can you imagine High School Jess putting up with Logan's high-handed bullshit, or forgiving Rory when he realizes she's trying to use him as a revenge fuck?--but also in the revival. Revival Jess listens patiently to Rory's complaints, gently refuses to indulge her self-pity, and provides her with an idea aimed at getting her out of her funk. He also takes care of Luke: getting him to admit what's bothering him, listening to his concerns, and solving his wifi moocher problem. He's a much more mature guy than he was in high school, so it's a fallacy to assume that his relationship with Rory in the present would suffer from the same problems that plagued their relationship in high school.

I wonder if Jess went to therapy or at least read a shit-ton of self help books, from his comment that he thought Lorelai should have gone to therapy years ago. For High School Jess, that would be a typical cruel jab, but Jess seemed to mean it. Jess also jumps in with "communication problems" when Luke is dancing around describing his issues with Lorelai.

Quote

Imo Jess isn't a real character right now and really hasn't been for a while. He pretty much comes back to pump up others.

And to be the Gallant to Logan's Goofus, a role he also played in Season 6. (Goofus Logan sneers about others' financial situations and trots out his wealth to establish his superiority. Gallant Jess refuses to rise to the bait. Goofus Logan enables Rory's hiatus from Yale and encourages the worst in her. Gallant Jess urges Rory to go back to school and correctly tells her that "This isn't you." Goofus Logan cheats on Rory multiple times. Gallant Jess takes in stride Rory's attempt to use him as a revenge fuck. Goofus Logan drags Rory down into a toxic, dysfunctional relationship and enables her worst tendencies. Gallant Jess inspires her to believe in herself and not give up.)

To get back to your quote, Jess, for all his character growth, absolutely is a "real character." He still gives Luke shit, albeit in a healthy, teasing way (whipping off his hat and tossing it away). He rudely reads in the corner instead of acknowledging Lorelai and Rory. He gleefully disconnects the wifi. He doesn't talk much about himself. If he doesn't seem "real," it's because he's shockingly mature compared to everyone else, but that doesn't make him "fake."

It's true that he doesn't have an arc of his own, beyond that one look at Rory through the window, but as he's written in Season 6 and beyond, he's evolved past his previous issues to the point where he can stop focusing on himself and help people who took care of him and believed in him when he was a troubled high school student, namely Luke and Rory. People who truly have their shit together in every respect are never caught up in their own problems or drama, because they don't have any. Jess isn't a magical story fairy who pops in to wave a wand and fix Luke and Rory's lives (since Rory's the one who has to write the book, and since he doesn't really fix Luke's problem with Lorelai so much as provide a sounding board): he's just a character who has his shit together. He's no different from Revival Lane, who has no storyline of her, who also seems very happy with her life and who seems to have her shit together--her biggest gripe is that Zach was promoted!--and can therefore patiently sit and listen to Rory whine about what a disaster her life is.

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'd say that he got a lot better at it, at the very least. He's grown and changed ever since Luke gave him that self help book in season 4. He may never be great at communicating his own emotions, but I agree that it's probably just part of who he is as a person. I think he's redeemed himself from his shitty teenager ways, at least. He may not stick around for very long, but when he does show up, he helps people like Luke and Rory in some way. 

I had no use for High School Jess. Season 6+ Jess, on the other hand, is a genuinely good guy who unlike Rory actually grew up, but I have the sense that that growth is hard won. 

TV is so full of "alpha male" love interests full of puffing and preening that someone like Season 6+ Jess, quietly confident and secure yet caring, humble and self-effacing, is really refreshing. And attractive.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Eyes High

[tarotx]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Post-Season 4 Jess did a lot of genuine inner work. This came across in Season 6--can you imagine High School Jess putting up with Logan's high-handed bullshit, or forgiving Rory when he realizes she's trying to use him as a revenge fuck?--but also in the revival. Revival Jess listens patiently to Rory's complaints, gently refuses to indulge her self-pity, and provides her with an idea aimed at getting her out of her funk. He also takes care of Luke: getting him to admit what's bothering him, listening to his concerns, and solving his wifi moocher problem. He's a much more mature guy than he was in high school, so it's a fallacy to assume that his relationship with Rory in the present would suffer from the same problems that plagued their relationship in high school.

I wonder if Jess went to therapy or at least read a shit-ton of self help books, from his comment that he thought Lorelai should have gone to therapy years ago. For High School Jess, that would be a typical cruel jab, but Jess seemed to mean it. Jess also jumps in with "communication problems" when Luke is dancing around describing his issues with Lorelai.

And to be the Gallant to Logan's Goofus, a role he also played in Season 6. (Goofus Logan sneers about others' financial situations and trots out his wealth to establish his superiority. Gallant Jess refuses to rise to the bait. Goofus Logan enables Rory's hiatus from Yale and encourages the worst in her. Gallant Jess urges Rory to go back to school and correctly tells her that "This isn't you." Goofus Logan cheats on Rory multiple times. Gallant Jess takes in stride Rory's attempt to use him as a revenge fuck. Goofus Logan drags Rory down into a toxic, dysfunctional relationship and enables her worst tendencies. Gallant Jess inspires her to believe in herself and not give up.)

To get back to your quote, Jess, for all his character growth, absolutely is a "real character." He still gives Luke shit, albeit in a healthy, teasing way (whipping off his hat and tossing it away). He rudely reads in the corner instead of acknowledging Lorelai and Rory. He gleefully disconnects the wifi. He doesn't talk much about himself. If he doesn't seem "real," it's because he's shockingly mature compared to everyone else, but that doesn't make him "fake."

It's true that he doesn't have an arc of his own, beyond that one look at Rory through the window, but as he's written in Season 6 and beyond, he's evolved past his previous issues to the point where he can stop focusing on himself and help people who took care of him and believed in him when he was a troubled high school student, namely Luke and Rory. People who truly have their shit together in every respect are never caught up in their own problems or drama, because they don't have any. Jess isn't a magical story fairy who pops in to wave a wand and fix Luke and Rory's lives (since Rory's the one who has to write the book, and since he doesn't really fix Luke's problem with Lorelai so much as provide a sounding board): he's just the one character who has his shit together.

I had no use for High School Jess. Season 6+ Jess, on the other hand, is a genuinely good guy who unlike Rory actually grew up, but I have the sense that that growth is hard won.

 

 

I don't think he's fake. He's just not development. He's a plot point to get someone else somewhere else. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by tarotx

[dirtypop90]

7 hours ago, racked said:

I just read that interview after seeing your post, and it was very enlightening. I felt both actors played Logan and Rory as being completely in love - and it is clear Matt intended it to appear that way.  He said something interesting about how Logan always sees Rory as someone who doesn't need anything from him - I think in his mind, he was playing Logan as someone who doesn't think Rory wants him in any other way than the relationship they have.  But clearly ASP had different ideas, so there was a total disconnect there.

And that is exactly how Logan came off. I was less sure of Rory's feelings for Logan than Logan's feelings for Rory. It has been mentioned that Logan didn't offer a ring or to dump his fiance but I didnt get the impression that Rory actually wanted to be in a relationship with him. They had a moment after their dance when she asked him if he was getting married where I thought ok...maybe she really wants him, but I still think with rory it is just hard to tell. She just may not want him to marry Odette. That doesn't mean she is actually interested in being with him.

[shron17]

36 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

They had a moment after their dance when she asked him if he was getting married where I thought ok...maybe she really wants him, but I still think with rory it is just hard to tell. She just may not want him to marry Odette. That doesn't mean she is actually interested in being with him.

It was hard to tell with Rory.  And it seems to me if Logan was at all willing to change his plans for her he would have asked her what she wanted.  He goes to all the trouble to get the LDB gang together to cheer Rory up but ultimately only offered her a very small piece of himself.  I thought Rory gave him back the key because she realized as great as Logan and his crazy friends were when she was in college they just don't fit into her adult life, that she would always have to fit into Logan's life.  And wasn't that really the reason she didn't accept his proposal in season 7?

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

And that is exactly how Logan came off. I was less sure of Rory's feelings for Logan than Logan's feelings for Rory. It has been mentioned that Logan didn't offer a ring or to dump his fiance but I didnt get the impression that Rory actually wanted to be in a relationship with him. They had a moment after their dance when she asked him if he was getting married where I thought ok...maybe she really wants him, but I still think with rory it is just hard to tell. She just may not want him to marry Odette. That doesn't mean she is actually interested in being with him.

Are you sure? Up until she dumped him in Spring, Rory was the one pushing for more--more time, more visits, longer visits, more telephone calls, more, more, more--while Logan kept putting her off and shutting her down as he got more and more involved with Odette. She was extremely jealous of Odette: biting her lip angrily when she learns Odette has moved in, getting mad when Logan takes calls while Odette is present, etc. She would go running to him whenever she needed comfort--and given the shitshow her life was in the revival, she needed a lot of comfort--and he was happy to oblige her as long as she played by the rules, but firmly shut her down when she tried to push the boundaries of their relationship by pushing for more time with him and chafing at her status as side piece.

In Spring, Rory pretty much accuses Logan of constructively breaking up with her by moving Odette in, which is why she's so upset:

Rory: So I guess we should say goodbye.

Logan: If that's what you want.

Rory: Don't make this my thing.

Logan: Sorry.

Rory: So that's it? We're breaking up. Except we can't break up, because we're nothing.

"Except we can't break up, because we're nothing!" is something someone heartbroken would say, not a FWB whose pride has been wounded by being reminded of her subordinate status. Rory hates that Logan is engaged. Rory hates being marginalized by Logan. Rory hates that she and Logan are "nothing" (because of Logan, not her). She makes her peace with not wanting to be his side piece in Fall, but in Spring she is genuinely heartbroken.

My take was her instances of citing the "Vegas rules" thing seemed to be her way of protecting herself and making it look like she was totally cool with this arrangement, which she most certainly was not, especially since she seems awfully brittle and bitter about the arrangement and her status under the arrangement  towards the end of the revival. Look at how Rory throws them in his face when he apologizes for not telling her about Odette:

Logan: I should've told you about Odette moving in.

Rory: Nope. That was not the agreement.

Logan: I know.

Rory: You owed me nothing.

Logan: Technically, no, but...

Rory: No strings. When we're together, we're together. When we're not, we're not.

Logan: ...So, how are you?

Logan conceding the point made me think that the whole thing was Logan's idea and that when Rory quickly shut down his attempts at an apology, Rory was essentially telling him not to pretend he's all broken up about her feelings when he proposed those rules in the first place. It is ambiguous, though; it could be that Rory proposed the rules even though she wanted more since she knew it was the only way she could have Logan in her life. Another possibility is that when Rory is citing the Vegas rules in Fall, she is attempting to spare Logan's feelings by owning her part in participating in an arrangement she didn't want, but LOL this is Rory we're talking about; how likely is Rory acknowledging guilt, owning her shit and taking responsibility?

Edited November 30, 2016 by Eyes High

[stillshimpy]

10 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Logan conceding the point made me think that the whole thing was Logan's idea and that when Rory quickly shut down his attempts at an apology, Rory was essentially telling him not to pretend he's all broken up about her feelings when he proposed those rules in the first place.

 

 

It always works if Logan concedes the point because Rory is insisting on the rules she previously stated and he agreed to.  It works either way.   I think it's actually designed to have that kind of ambiguity.  They told us almost nothing concretely.   Logan wouldn't even say, "Yes, I'm going to marry Odette" instead they had him say, "That's the dynastic plan".     

I think they structured absolutely everything to leave it open for development if Netflix picks up another season.  It's the only narrative choice I can think of because....they seriously made the narrative choice of not telling us anything definitively.  Who asked for what, how long it had been going on.   Kind of like we can't tell who is taking advantage of whom in this scenario so they both just seem sleazy and potentially exploiting the real feelings of the other callously.  

Designed for maximum hives.  

Edited November 30, 2016 by stillshimpy

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, stillshimpy said:

It always works if Logan concedes the point because Rory is insisting on the rules she previously stated and he agreed to.  It works either way. 

Sure. However, given what we know of Rory's passivity and Logan's practiced ease with casual sex arrangements, which is more likely?

In Winter, Rory backtracks extraordinarily quickly when she realizes she may have accidentally betrayed her feelings by asking about "other girl's things," which is when she cheerily reminds him of the Vegas rules, as if to reassure Logan that she knows her place. It almost seemed like she was afraid of Logan thinking she was being presumptuous. Why might that be?

[stillshimpy]

10 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Sure. However, given what we know of Rory's passivity and Logan's practiced ease with casual sex arrangements, which is more likely?

 

 

 

Adding in that she turned down his marriage proposal and then, for all we know, showed up at his door claiming all she wanted was friends with benefits?  Because the turning down of the proposal thing happened in the canon of the show.

Another instance of cannot be determined without more information and could go either way with the information we have. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by stillshimpy

[dirtypop90]

And Rory was pushing for more time, more visits later because she had nothing to do. IMO She was floating. When she found out about odette moving in, she was only considering coming to see Logan earlier because she had nothing to do. Nothing indicated she'd been wanting more time with Logan before then.

Plus, rory clearly is also at ease with casual sexual relationships, not only because of her relationship with logan, but also Paul. I bet she was having sex with him and nothing about that relationship said serious. We dont know anything about rory's relationships in the past 10 years since she left college. They could have all been casual.

[Dean Learner]

Quote

Plus, rory clearly is also at ease with casual sexual relationships, not only because of her relationship with logan, but also Paul. I bet she was having sex with him and nothing about that relationship said serious. We dont know anything about rory's relationships in the past 10 years since she left college. They could have all been casual.

We've seen Rory in all of two sexually intimate relationships- Dean and Logan- and both involved episodes of jealousy, infidelity, and doubt in Rory. So no, I would argue the opposite: we have no evidence that Rory is at ease with FWB situations or casual hookups; if anything she fails at her FWB attempts quite spectacularly. Her freak out over Mr. Wookie serves to underline that point.

As for Paul, the fact that he was seemingly created for comic relief flattens his character considerably. But what we do know is that he had been dating Rory for two years, had met her mother, her grandmother, and her erstwhile stepdad- even gone fishing with him- and was on a first-name familiar basis with everyone in Rory's life. That's serious enough, all things considered.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Dean Learner

[tarotx]

It's pretty much 3 years now that she has been dating Paul. I think Rory likes things to go the way she has set things out to be and when they aren't that or things change without her say she freaks out. And goes into crisis mode. Or she ignores until she can't anymore. (To me it's another sign that this mini-series needed to be at least 7 years ago but that's already been said over and over again and the fact that it's not can't be changed :( ). 

[dirtypop90]

1 hour ago, Dean Learner said:

We've seen Rory in all of two sexually intimate relationships- Dean and Logan- and both involved episodes of jealousy, infidelity, and doubt in Rory. So no, I would argue the opposite: we have no evidence that Rory is at ease with FWB situations or casual hookups; if anything she fails at her FWB attempts quite spectacularly. Her freak out over Mr. Wookie serves to underline that point.

As for Paul, the fact that he was seemingly created for comic relief flattens his character considerably. But what we do know is that he had been dating Rory for two years, had met her mother, her grandmother, and her erstwhile stepdad- even gone fishing with him- and was on a first-name familiar basis with everyone in Rory's life. That's serious enough, all things considered.

I said casual relationships, not one-night stands with strangers. By casual relationship, I meant a relationship with a guy she is seeing on a semi-regular basis but not committed to, not picking up a random at a bar. 

Yea, Paul met her family, and she never told her family they were serious and her family didnt consider her to be in a serious relationship. she was dating paul while also seeing Logan, likely sleeping with both. Clearly her views on relationships have changed. IMO Number of years doesnt indicate commitment level. Paul was clearly just something to do, probably convenient.

Rory is a 30 year old woman now. She couldn't handle casual when she was in college but she could have (did IMO) changed later.

Edited November 30, 2016 by dirtypop90

[hippielamb]

15 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

I thought she looked adorable. 

I did too. I have wondered if Lorelai would look ridiculous in one of Amy's getups, it suited her. I also like that she was wearing something unconventional (but very Lorelai) to get married. I hope she didn't wear that ugly wedding dress from season 6 at the wedding. 

 

6 hours ago, tarotx said:

Lorelai raising her Grandaughter is the worst full circle the show can go to. But the fact that they made Rory have no stability and very transient, makes that altogether a possibility. It leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. This is the reason we needed to know more about Rory's past 10 years or for the mini-series to have taken place a few years after college. 

I don't think this will happen. I think Rory's pregnancy will be the thing that forces her to grow up, just as what happened with Lorelai. That's what I took from her line of 'I want to remember it all'. She was referring to her idyllic childhood, now it's time for her to become the adult.

[tarotx]

6 minutes ago, hippielamb said:

I did too. I have wondered if Lorelai would look ridiculous in one of Amy's getups, it suited her. I also like that she was wearing something unconventional (but very Lorelai) to get married. I hope she didn't wear that ugly wedding dress from season 6 at the wedding. 

 

I don't think this will happen. I think Rory's pregnancy will be the thing that forces her to grow up, just as what happened with Lorelai. That's what I took from her line of 'I want to remember it all'. She was referring to her idyllic childhood, now it's time for her to become the adult.

 

Oh I know the plan is for the baby to change Rory but the fear has been planted. Rory being a version of her father was on full display in the revival. And Christopher being himself was as well. So yeah he's nearing 50 and pretty much alone. 

[cantbeflapped]

10 hours ago, Melancholy said:

(Although, I loved Lorelai retroactively calling the basket-bidding part of their early romance. Hee! and Aww!) 

Oh yes....that was VERY significant for us "shippers" wasn't it?  Loved it.  We've never really gotten any discussion by Luke and Lorelai of all those significant moments in S1-4 have we?  

[FictionLover]

52 minutes ago, cantbeflapped said:

Oh yes....that was VERY significant for us "shippers" wasn't it?  Loved it.  We've never really gotten any discussion by Luke and Lorelai of all those significant moments in S1-4 have we?  

Because there really wasn't that much to discuss about them. I wish there was more. Luke's plea to Lorelai in 4 was what every shipper has ever wanted him to say, but that and only a few shots of them together at the wedding is all we really got. That was disappointing. 

[PRgal]

What bothers me is why EVERYONE in Emily's DAR group looks to be 60 or older.  You would think there'd be some 40-somethings on the board (or whatever that smaller group is supposed to be).  I'm Canadian and a child of immigrants, so I don't know much about them, but I always assumed they were like the Junior League, but unlike JL, you need to have a genetic connection. 

[junienmomo]

On 11/28/2016 at 9:35 PM, QuiteContrary said:

-Where's my Kiefer Sutherland cameo, DAMMIT?! And when would Kiefer have spent time in Connecticut? Around when he headbutted that fashion designer in NY?

I know! I've already fanwanked it. Luke said he met Kiefer when he went to a baseball thing (fantasy camp?). I can totally see a 1990’s Luke taking a vacation to Florida for the camp and spending a couple of days with uncle Louie.

[Guest]

I cried at the LDB parts, mostly because I'm obsessed with The Beatles and Across the Universe. It was such a perfect song for that moment.

[Melancholy]

I feel more deprived of the Anthony Bourdain cameo (because he is a fave) where Lorelai pisses him off and drives him out of the Dragonfly. Lorelai v. Bourdain could be quite the battle of enfant terrible wits  

I'm a food star aficionado. Luke, mid rant saying he was checking on the muffins at the Dragonfly to help Sandra Lee because she's had a tough time lately, delighted me too. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Melancholy

[junienmomo]

Rory's arc was great, and the best thing ASP did in the revival. 

Emily's arc was something out of a Lifetime movie, very cliched. Freshly widowed, someone close to her (Lorelai), says something awful and the widow lashes out. It's overdramatized with a long grudge and the therapy that Lorelai suggests honestly and out of caring, yet Emily manipulates it into another round of beat up on Lorelai, then bails completely as Lorelai tries to hold it together in spite of her mother's cruelty. The widow then does a couple of stupid things, namely getting rid of stuff and adopting a maid. Cue her realization that it was time to live her own life and she moves to Nantucket with her new best friends and people who need and appreciate her, has a rebound guy in tow and puts on the shoes from Dirty Dancing to show that she has found her new self. Yawn.

Lorelai finally grew up. I'm glad and it was good, but there are plot holes everywhere. Where was Manny the chef, for example? He seamlessly took over when Sookie had her babies. He was so good Luke wanted to steal him. Now there would have been a candidate for a first franchise manager. And how could the inn survive without a restaurant?

Rory's arc is great because it's really set in modern day. This is a world of thirty-somethings who have gigs and short-term contracts instead of union jobs or steady professional careers. This same world has experienced an internet based sexual revolution akin to the full acceptance of the pill as birth control. A hookup is trivially easy, you don't even need to be face to face with him to find a Wookie for the night. 

Open relationships are common, as are long-term cohabiting couples. No one wants to be tied down to anything more real than their current electronic window into the virtual world. 

Rory chose the open relationship. I can't quite understand this group's focus on the idea of being a 'side piece' when she controls her availability. She decides when she wants to go to him, and he only rarely has to say no. She is in absolute control here, an important part of the arc. She's running her own business, I.e. Rory Gilmore writer/journalist. She's running it into the ground.

The root cause of her dissatisfaction was never discovered. She's seen the real world and doesn't like it. She makes mistakes and doesn't learn from them. She has yet to reach the conclusion of yes, you don't always get what you want, so what are you going to do about it?

I see this dissatisfaction as the real problem; the baby is currently a blip on her path. When she becomes a mother, that will have equal standing with her current dissatisfaction issue. 

AYITL ends on this note. It's got huge possibilities. We don't know anything about the pregnancy; she might be a surrogate after all. It might not be Logan's. She might miscarry. Regardless of these questions she has to decide how she will live the rest of her life. Money isn't the issue, daddy's got that covered; she only has to ask. 

Emotionally, she's barely moved from where Winter opened. Where will she go in her full circle? I for one would like to find out. 

Nota bene: I don't have an issue with the self-centeredness in the revival. Both she and Lorelai were always that way. They aren't particularly worse in the revival. Lorelai is actually better; Rory has yet to find a reason to change.

Edited November 30, 2016 by junienmomo

[txhorns79]

Quote

Where's my Kiefer Sutherland cameo, DAMMIT?! And when would Kiefer have spent time in Connecticut? Around when he headbutted that fashion designer in NY?

I honestly expected Kiefer to cameo when they mentioned that, and was disappointed he did not.   

Quote

Lorelai raising her Grandaughter is the worst full circle the show can go to. But the fact that they made Rory have no stability and very transient, makes that altogether a possibility. It leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. This is the reason we needed to know more about Rory's past 10 years or for the mini-series to have taken place a few years after college. 

I can imagine Lorelai being a very involved grandparent, but I cannot imagine a scenario where Lorelai would voluntarily agree to raise her grandchild, absent Rory becoming disabled. 

[FictionLover]

But could that happen if there would be a season 2 without AB? Some say she's not as invested in the show. Probably wouldn't do one without her though it would be ok with me.

[MsChicklet]

If there's no AB, there's no way ASP goes ahead with a second AYITL.

If there is a second one, I have a feeling Rory's going to get a sample of why Lorelei fled Castle Gilmore all those years ago once Emily finds out about the pregnancy, and the parentage (if Logan is the father). She has already shown her claws to Shira and will have no problem injecting herself and her opinion on how things should be in the middle of this, regardless of what Rory says, feels, or wants.

[junienmomo]

1 minute ago, MsChicklet said:

If there's no AB, there's no way ASP goes ahead with a second AYITL.

If there is a second one, I have a feeling Rory's going to get a sample of why Lorelei fled Castle Gilmore all those years ago once Emily finds out about the pregnancy, and the parentage (if Logan is the father). She has already shown her claws to Shira and will have no problem injecting herself and her opinion on how things should be in the middle of this, regardless of what Rory says, feels, or wants.

I'm thinking Emily has no skin in this game anymore. Sure she wants Rory to be happy, but she isn't going to chase down a society husband for her. I think her bullshit means bullshit.

[Lady Calypso]

12 minutes ago, junienmomo said:

Open relationships are common, as are long-term cohabiting couples. No one wants to be tied down to anything more real than their current electronic window into the virtual world. 

Rory chose the open relationship. I can't quite understand this group's focus on the idea of being a 'side piece' when she controls her availability. She decides when she wants to go to him, and he only rarely has to say no. She is in absolute control here, an important part of the arc. She's running her own business, I.e. Rory Gilmore writer/journalist. She's running it into the ground.

I don't think it's that she chose an open relationship, at least not in the sense that Rory might have wanted it. First off, I highly doubt Paul, at the very least, knew that Rory was seeing other people. Now, Paul may be treated as a joke by the show and the showrunners/actors, but the fact is that they created him as a character. Logan/Rory were hiding their relationship from everyone. I don't know much about open relationships myself, but their arrangement sounds like they were be involved when they're together and forget about each other when they're not. That doesn't sound like an open relationship. There's a lot of questions that arise from this because the show didn't actually explore this particular aspect.

Did Odette know about Logan seeing other women? Did they also have an arrangement when the two were living in separate countries? Did Logan consider Odette just as important as Rory? 

I don't think Rory/Logan were in an open relationship. They were in a secret relationship, from the looks of it. Both parties not only have to agree to see other people, but I'd think it's common courtesy for the two of them to tell their other partners. It doesn't seem like they did that. Logan also was engaged to Odette. Rory was in control only as far as it came to her relationship with Logan. She controls only some aspects of that relationship, as well. I think back to when Logan told Rory that Odette had moved in. Up to that point, Rory was ready to come to London because at that point, Logan was living alone so she could come and go when she felt like it. But this time around, Logan might have had activities planned, but she would have to stay in a hotel. In this sense, she was not in control of Logan's relationship with Odette. She was not in control of them being together when Odette started living there. They were still sneaking around.

I guess in some aspects it was an open relationship. I just think it wasn't as simple since not all parties seemed to know about it, and Rory and Logan chose to keep it secret from many of their closest family members for who knows how long. 

[Taryn74]

3 minutes ago, MsChicklet said:

If there is a second one, I have a feeling Rory's going to get a sample of why Lorelei fled Castle Gilmore all those years ago once Emily finds out about the pregnancy, and the parentage (if Logan is the father). She has already shown her claws to Shira and will have no problem injecting herself and her opinion on how things should be in the middle of this, regardless of what Rory says, feels, or wants.

Eh, I don't know.  I just don't feel Emily is that person anymore.  I think what the revival showed us, as far as Emily's arc is concerned, is that Richard's death opened up the path for her to have her own "do I really like poptarts because I like them, or because my parents would never let me have them?" time of soul-searching, and she realized that as much as she loved Richard and enjoyed the life they had together, the high society life with all it's unspoken rules and expectations just isn't what she wants for herself anymore.

[txhorns79]

Quote

If there is a second one, I have a feeling Rory's going to get a sample of why Lorelei fled Castle Gilmore all those years ago once Emily finds out about the pregnancy, and the parentage (if Logan is the father). She has already shown her claws to Shira and will have no problem injecting herself and her opinion on how things should be in the middle of this, regardless of what Rory says, feels, or wants.

I'm sure Emily would offer advice, but it's an entirely different situation for a 32 year old to be a single parent, than it is to have your teenage daughter, pregnant (and later with an infant) and living in your home.   

[absnow54]

And hasn't Rory already fled Casa Gilmore in season 6? I feel like she already knows the high society political game, and that her conversation with Christopher was her way of justifying her Lorelai approach to parenting.

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

 

I can imagine Lorelai being a very involved grandparent, but I cannot imagine a scenario where Lorelai would voluntarily agree to raise her grandchild, absent Rory becoming disabled. 

Lorelai will no doubt step up and do what needs to be done for her daughter and her grandchild.  Exactly what that will be is unclear, but I suspect it will muddy the waters between them no matter how it plays out.

What would be interesting is Luke's take.  Luke who thinks the sun rises and sets on Rory, even all these years later and a biological daughter of his own showing up to own her own significant landmass in his heart.  But the raising of, very existence of that daughter was hidden from him, painfully so.  I'd imagine he's going to have some serious thoughts if Rory just assumes she's entitled to her child and the father has no rights at all.

[Melancholy]

I know Rory has been making big mistakes but I don't think she'd pull an Anna. But yes, it'd be  a big fight if Rory's typical avoidance of conflict to the point of dishonesty led her to want to make such a big mistake. Luke would hit the roof. I have to believe Lorelai would too. That kind of Anna move to dishonestly make yourself a single mother would offend single mothers who were forced to do it on their own but would have loved to see their child with the benefits of a real father and were hurt that they couldn't give their kids that security. 

I do think for maximum conflict and to stay true to the characters, Logan would do better than Christopher but still not be present for the grind of custodial parenting. I see Logan dazzling the child with a few magnificent meaningful visits a year and showing authentic love and helping financially but he would live elsewhere with his own life most of the time. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Melancholy

[absnow54]

I could imagine Rory putting off telling Logan. I don't think she'd actively try to hide it, but Rory can be non-confrontational to a fault, and I could see her struggling with how to tell him. Knowing the Paladinos, they'd have Lorelai be the one to spill the beans and use that to drive the Mother/Daughter conflict for the season.

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, Eyes High said:

solving his wifi moocher problem

 I don't know why Luke didn't turn off the router himself. It's not as if Jess's solution was so complicated. (It was a funny bit, I grant you.)

14 hours ago, Eyes High said:

People who truly have their shit together in every respect are never caught up in their own problems or drama, because they don't have any.

I disagree. Everyone has problems, but if you have your shit together, you handle them yourself without dragging in everyone else.

2 hours ago, Melancholy said:

Sandra Lee

I have a hard time believing Lorelei would ever hire Sandra Lee, no matter how desperate she was for a cook or how hard a time Sandra Lee had had. That lady's entire output is a hate crime against food. If we'd seen Sookie smell SL's cooking, she'd have combusted on the spot.

[absnow54]

I could see Lorelai hiring Sandra Lee as her personal chef. Half of her recipes are her frosting a store bought cake with a can of frosting while drinking a cocktail. This is Lorelai's cooking soulmate if I ever saw one.

[Viqutorious]

Logan is the most confusing character in the revival. He had so much growth and maturity in season 7 and he really treated Rory with respect and loved her. ASP ignored season 7 regarding him and it didn't work for me. I felt like I was watching a different character. 

The season 7 writers were better at writing adult loving relationships. Both Logan and Christopher were both written as very romantic & thoughtful partners that season. (Obviously minus the breakup stuff) Season 7 also had more verbal I love yous. None of that carried over so it didn't make sense to me. Are we just supposed to forget that Logan proposed? 

I know ASP was intent on ignoring most of season 7,  I think that was a big mistake on her part. I think her ego gets in the way. 

[dubbel zout]

24 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I could see Lorelai hiring Sandra Lee as her personal chef. Half of her recipes are her frosting a store bought cake with a can of frosting while drinking a cocktail. This is Lorelai's cooking soulmate if I ever saw one.

This I totally could see, but Sandra Lee cooking at the inn for guests? No way.