S03.E08: Invasion!

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

A superhero crossover event continues with aliens attacking Central City and Barry asking the Green Arrow for help to stop them. But they soon realize the battle is bigger than they thought, so they track down the Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl to help. Once all of the super friends are assembled, they come up with a plan to attack but a shocking secret related to Flashpoint is revealed and suddenly no one is sure who they can trust.

[bettername2come]

Please let the shocking secret be Barry deleted Sara Diggle.

[Trini]

Clip:

Hee! Are they going to bring up Oliver shooting Barry in every crossover?

[BkWurm1]

So how come the super advanced, world conquering, evil aliens never bother to invent pants?  

[bettername2come]

Quote

So how come the super advanced, world conquering, evil aliens never bother to invent pants?  

Nudist aliens.

Edited November 29, 2016 by bettername2come

[crickettu]

I'm so excited I can't wait!

[mtlchick]

Yay to the multitude of logos in the opening credits!  Somewhat confused at the order of special guests (I'm weird like that.) 

For those like me who get annoyed that identities are revealed to one individual, this was the writers reply: "Screw you all, we're doing a free for all!"  (Snerk to Iris about finding about Oliver.) 

For those who feel Barry has enough guilt, this was the writers reply "Pfft.  Tip of the iceburg!  We're going to make his friends ANGRY!" (Baby Sara, we won't forget you.  Dig on the other hand...) 

Pretty good episode overall despite the Dominator cheesiness.  Nice kick off to the crossover extravaganza.  On to Arrow's 100! 

[Jediknight]

A whole lot of the Hall of Justice, and that's awesome.

We better get more Supergirl and Mick scenes, because that one scene we got was great.  Heck, all of the episode was awesome.

[Lantern7]

That's more like it. Sure, we're drowning in subplots from the other shows, and I'm grateful J'onn and James stayed behind. Oh, and Huckster becoming Wally's mentor? Brought to you by Bad Idea Jeans.

Anybody else wanna compare the Dominators to the Cth . . . Char . . . the aliens from The Avengers? At least they had Loki. At least they seem to recognize that Sara is the alpha.

I like Barry, but I'm okay with the heroes (and Mick) taking turns smacking him, with Cisco wearing elaborate disguises to get multiple hits. It's the only way he'll learn. At least Oliver was sympathetic for five minutes. He would bend time as well to bring back his folks.

Tomorrow: Dominators versus the Team Arrow newbies. Well, the crossover was fun while it lasted.

[Morrigan2575]

IMO, the first 30 minutes of this episode were super cheesy. They approached Batman and Robin levels of bad. All comicy cheese and bad one liners. However, after the aliens kidnapped the President it got pretty good. 

They did take the time to setup Arrow's story with both Sara and Oliver talking about wanting their dead family back. Not sure what Stein was setting up but, I guess we'll find out on LoT.

Yep, totally the Hall of Justice

Edited November 30, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[cambridgeguy]

I'm not sure that turning Iris into a wet blanket towards Wally is the best move for her character.  Being the person who doesn't want someone to use their powers is never a good role to have on a superhero show.

I think Barry and Oliver are the other's favorite person in the world - I hope Felicity and Iris aren't too broken up about that.  I'm not sure I buy that most (if not all) of the other characters wouldn't race back in time to save a loved one if they could.  It's selfish and careless but also a very human reaction.  For all of Sara's talk she did her damned best to kill Damien Darhk back in the 40s and had to be talked down by her team. 

[benteen]

That was awesome.  A little unwieldy at times and you can tell they are stretching their FX budget with this event.  But still, I was very happy with it by the end.

I’m not one for letting Barry forget what he has done but Amell killed it in the scene where he talks about his parents.

One of the most fun aspects of this crossover is getting to catch up on old friendships on the show.  Cisco/Ray, Cisco/Felicity, Caitlin/Martin, etc.  Speaking of the last one, while it was predictable that the girl would turn out to be Stein’s daughter, that whole sequence was really well-acted.

Also another fun aspect is the new interactions…Rory with Supergirl was pretty damn funny for instance.

Hall of Justice, yay!

Has Donnelly Rhodes character been in the Arrowverse before?  He seems familiar but then again that might be because he pops up on a lot of shows.

A few things I didn’t like…

-Good lord, is Wally annoying as hell.  If I have to listen to him bitch and moan anymore about being a hero, I’m going to go nuts.  He’s The Flash’s version of Laurel when she was starting out.  Though Wally and HR could be a fun combination.

-Cisco…good lord, dragging his issue with Barry into all of this.  Again, I’m not one for letting Barry off the hook but seriously, you’re going to have Barry reveal what he caused in Flashpoint BEFORE the team has to go off on an alien invasion?  What an absolutely selfish and self-absorbed thing to do on Cisco’s part.  I can’t believe I’m saying this but I’ve had it with his whining about his brother.  He couldn’t stand his brother for the most part and now that’s he’s dead, Dante has become a saint.  Cisco is now Livia Soprano, remembering the dead husband she used to torment fondly.

-Sara…love Sara but she’s the last person who should be lecturing about Barry saving someone he loves when she’s spent about six months trying to alter history to save her sister.

Looking forward to Arrow tomorrow!

[johntfs]

The first question I'd want to ask when I learned that a set of aliens were called "The Dominators" is "Why exactly are they called The Dominators?"  You know, maybe anticipate the whole mind control thing.

Will Mick hit on Supergirl?  Will Sara hit on Supergirl (and possibly get some.  Sara is the the Time Playa, after all.

[Sakura12]

The first half felt really rushed. It got better after the President was kidnapped. 

I really don't like the fact that Barry feels bad means everyone should just get over Barry screwing up everyone's lives. Although it was stupid forced drama to leave Barry and Oliver out of the mind control. 

I wonder how much fun CL and SA had fighting each other. 

I'm tired of Wally's whining. Maybe if I'd seen try to be a hero without powers I'd believe he had selfless reasons, but all he seems to want is to be called a hero. Which is not heroic. I'm not sure putting the two characters I find most annoying together is going to make that storyline enjoyable. 

[Morrigan2575]

Forgot to mention, unbelievably stupid to have Supergirl just stand there while the aliens kill the President

[Arynm]

Loved every second!! I was a geeked out mess when they all got together, I might have teared up.  Loved Mick calling her "Skirt" because Supergirl was dumb.  Barry needs to get yelled at a little by the team, especially about baby Sarah. I'm glad they all pulled together at the end behind him. Can't wait for night 3

[ParadoxLost]

22 minutes ago, benteen said:

-Cisco…good lord, dragging his issue with Barry into all of this.  Again, I’m not one for letting Barry off the hook but seriously, you’re going to have Barry reveal what he caused in Flashpoint BEFORE the team has to go off on an alien invasion?  What an absolutely selfish and self-absorbed thing to do on Cisco’s part. 

Between this and the fact that he was an absolute nag about getting Barry to go back and change the past to save his brother by changing the timeline, I'm about out of patience with Cisco, in particular, on this topic.

Oliver's reaction to the future newspaper archive did make me think that following promising never to go back and change time again that maybe they need to get Barry to lock up the future glimpsing room lest some trickster villain start using fake news papers to shape Barry's decisions.   What if Barry starts trying to fix problems reported by The Onion (satirical news org)?

Also, future Barry.  Cryptic don't trust anyone messages are not at all helpful.  And did I get lost at some point?  I thought future Barry was saying not to trust anything around him.  This I took to mean that Reverse Flash or something was masquerading as one of his friends.  But then Barry seemed to interpret it as the message was no one should trust Barry.  Then after that it seemed like it was that Barry shouldn't trust that he knew all the changes he made.

Edited November 30, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Last Time Lord]

"Meanwhile, at The Hall of Justice, The Super Friends gather to create a plan to stop the alien threat."

I love this entire shared universe, especially the logos for the titles.

[mtlchick]

Quote

Speaking of the last one, while it was predictable that the girl would turn out to be Stein’s daughter, that whole sequence was really well-acted.

Deadline just posted that she's been added to LoT as recurring. 

[bettername2come]

I really enjoyed it. The Flash writers nailed Oliver's characterization in his speech to Barry. I do love how Oliver has such faith in Barry. I like how they incorporated the newspaper with it's changing author, although I thought all that information disappeared when Eobard did. I think they screwed up there. Oliver and Barry versus everyone else was fun. When he ran out of arrows and paused for a second I totally thought he would suddenly bust out the magic, but I was wrong. Is it just me or did Oliver drop Wally way too hard multiple times? 

"Oliver Queen is the Green Arrow? He just got so much hotter."

Quote

Loved Mick calling her "Skirt" because Supergirl was dumb.

Loved the followup. "Supergirl, do something."

 

I actually liked the B plots of Stein having a daughter and West family drama. I'm also a sucker for Caitlin/Stein interaction, and him talking to Caitlin about her powers was a nice followup to his and Cisco's conversation last year. Enjoyed the acknowledgement that Barry owns STAR Labs.

[benteen]

18 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Between this and the fact that he was an absolute nag about getting Barry to go back and change the past to save his brother by changing the timeline, I'm about out of patience with Cisco, in particular, on this topic.

Oliver's reaction to the future newspaper archive did make me think that following promising never to go back and change time again that maybe they need to get Barry to lock up the future glimpsing room lest some trickster villain start using fake news papers to shape Barry's decisions.   What if Barry starts trying to fix problems reported by The Onion (satirical news org)?

Also, future Barry.  Cryptic don't trust anyone messages are not at all helpful.  And did I get lost at some point?  I thought future Barry was saying not to trust anything around him.  This I took to mean that Reverse Flash or something was masquerading as one of his friends.  But then Barry seemed to interpret it as the message was no one should trust Barry.  Then after that it seemed like it was that Barry shouldn't trust that he knew all the changes he made.

Another excellent point on Cisco.

Agreed about the future room and LOL about how cryptic Future Barry was.  This seems to be something all TV and movies do.  Let's be cryptic when a few simple words can go a long way to preventing stupid problems.

Only Mick could have made that "I burned my whole family alive" line funny and saying it to Kara made it even better.

[Lantern7]

"What's wrong with 'Skirt'? Sara wears pants. Amaya wears pants. Kendra wore pants. It just seems impractical. Yeah, I know what that word means. Shut up."

[blugirlami21]

I really enjoyed the episode for the most part.  I actually loved all the cheesiness in the beginning.  These kind of super hero powerups have to be that way.  It's no different than it is on the big screen.  I loved everyone meeting Kara, she's just a fun spirit.  She had the biggest smile on her face while she was demolishing everyone during "training."  Also Iris telling Barry that finding out that Oliver is the Green Arrow makes him even hotter had me in stitches.  I'm glad they include those kinds of little moments in these crossovers.  I think it would be really easy to focus on the big things and forget about the character beats.

I hated that Iris' overprotection of Wally got turned back up to a thousand in this episode.  I was going to say she was acting like Joe but she acted this exact same way in the drag racing episode.  It must be genetic.  And I get it to an extent but Wally is a semi-grown man (How old is Wally supposed to be?) and they treat him like he's five years old.  If you want him to learn to use his powers, you should have Barry train him or Oliver or any other responsible superhero that we are friends with.  Limiting his use of his power is only going to make him act out and/or find alternative solutions like he did in this episode.  Which is going to blow up in their faces.

Cisco, oh Cisco.  I love Cisco dearly but everything they are doing with his character this season is stripping that away.  He's so passive aggressive and selfish and hypocritical about when its ok for Barry to use his time travel powers.  The first words out of his mouth when he saw Barry in the first episode were that he wanted Barry to go back and save Dante.  And unless he and Dante had a much different relationship than what we've seen previously, I want him to shut his pie hole about it.  But are Stein and Jax kidding with leaving the oh so top secret ipod touch message laying on the desk in plain view.  For reals?  I knew Cisco was going to find that as soon as he entered the room.

I love that Oliver gave Barry a different perspective about flashpoint and his guilt.  No one is saying that Barry wasn't wrong for what he did.  No one is saying forget about the changes that were made but can we please stop beating a dead horse?  Short of changing the timeline again, there's nothing that can be done about it.  I would be more receptive to Cisco's pain and anger if he were actively trying to get past it.  It seems to come from such a shallow, petty resentful place that I can't empathize or sympathize with him over it.  I also agree with benteen about the timing of the reveal.  During a crisis is the wrong time and the team being divided over it is how the final battle happened.

I am so looking forward to the next two episodes, this one was a lot of fun.

[Cthulhudrew]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

So how come the super advanced, world conquering, evil aliens never bother to invent pants?  

From your lips to Braniac's ears.

[ParadoxLost]

7 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I really enjoyed it. The Flash writers nailed Oliver's characterization in his speech to Barry.

If we are keeping score on the crossover... So far the Arrow team did their job of hooking at least one lapsed to giving that show another shot.  I say this having watched the last three episodes in preparation and deciding against it. 

But way to put the right foot forward by taking the A team to the crossover event (and leaving behind the teen irritants).  Diggle and Felicity always gel well with the Flash crew.  But hands down, the hero of the episode was Oliver Queen.  The mentor/mentee relationship with Barry was on point from Barry on how to lead, to he stories about shooting him to get Supergirl to be tough on them, and just his general handling of finding out that Barry changed the timeline. Lots of nice little moments like him moving closer to Diggle and being the one to say the words about his child.

I am still uninterested in LoT. 

Flash is the regular show I watch.  But I have to say that this episode was pretty representative of its strengths and weaknesses.  Grant Gustin carries the show through sheer charisma.  But they don't really know what to do with the ensemble. 

[Lady Calypso]

Well, I guess having everyone there was the best course of action for Barry's screw up to come out. Although I'm sure older Barry's message is not as simple as he makes it seem. I get the feeling that something else happens in the near future. Because older Barry did say not to trust anyone or anything, not even him. It's not don't trust JUST Barry. 

I'm pretty done with Cisco. I thought I wanted Cisco more flawed than the first two seasons, but this takes it over the top. All he does is whine now. Some of it may be justified, but for the most part, I'm pretty sick with his attitude. Him and Wally can go lock themselves in their self made meta prison for a while. I just can't handle Cisco being negative, passive aggressive, hypocritical, and extremely judgmental. 

Wally's an idiot. I get that he wants to be a hero or whatever, but him rushing into it without training was stupid, AND it slowed Oliver down a tad. It's a good thing it was Oliver out on the field with Barry not mind controlled. I get he's angry that Iris doesn't want him out on the field but he's too gung ho about going out there. It's a legitimate concern to slow it down. I didn't mind Iris taking charge in the West family drama. It's too bad that it's going to backfire. Iris better not blame herself for this. This is all Wally and now HR. 

A lot of hectic but good moments. Diggle finding out about Baby Sara should have some consequences. Sara lecturing Barry was odd, especially seeing as she's tried to kill Damien Darhk for six months on Legends. She's barely contained herself the last time! Also it sucks when Barry found out about Snart. But at least he knows that he went out a hero. 

Also, what happened to Vixen and Nate? I guess the team left them behind....why? 

I thought the Stein subplot with Caitlin was good, and it allowed Caitlin to have a voice in this hectic crossover. 

I laughed at all of the heroes meeting, followed by Iris calling Oliver even hotter by being GA. 

Oliver's scene with Barry was good. I knew he'd be on Barry's side because of his own struggles and loss.  Barry might be wrong for what he did, but what's done is done. And he's probably right in that everyone would want to save their parents if given the chance. It's all of a matter of who has the self restraint to stop themselves. 

[Cthulhudrew]

It was fun. A bit uneven, and I absolutely loathe hero vs. hero stories (why do they crop up with such regularity in fiction? Am I the outlier?), but overall pretty good. 

I do wish get tired of CGI aliens all the time. Is it less or more expensive than practical effects? (I'd guess the latter, given how many different programmers you'd have to employ, but it's probably quicker.)

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, what happened to Vixen and Nate? I guess the team left them behind....why? 

Sara mentioned it early on, said they were back with the ship ("Newbies"). I would suspect it probably had something to do with the timing of when they shot the episode (possibly before LoT began shooting, but early enough that they had the concepts of the characters down? Dunno.)

[TDT]

36 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

"Meanwhile, at The Hall of Justice, The Super Friends gather to create a plan to stop the alien threat."

I love this entire shared universe, especially the logos for the titles.

Was expecting to hear that narration as well as the "spinning stars" scene transition lol

During the scene where Barry admitted to messing things up with Flashpoint,wouldve loved to see them form a line and alternately shaking and slapping him,like in" Airplane!"

[DearEvette]

Cisco was annoying the hell out of me this episode.  He was petty and passive aggressive.  Frickin' Aliens are invading and you need to take the time get everybody all up in their feels about Barry?  Sit your ass down.

And come on!  How is it that nobody except Oliver said "dude, not the time... we'll deal with this later."

I also cant behind Diggle being mad... you don't know anything about this daughter.  The you that is standing right there right now has a son that you love an know.  So you get mad about a daughter you didn't even know existed in some other timeline until just a second ago? Would you rather the son you love didn't exist?  STFU.

Other than than Cisco's pettiness, this was fun!  I wish we'd gotten a smidge more awe from the group once they got a load of Kara's power.

I didn't mind Iris' protectiveness over Wally.  She is right, he is untutored and all he has is speed and he only just hatched out of his tree-egg.  Maybe fighting aliens shouldn't be his first test right out the gate.  And he did get his ass beat and slowed Oliver and Barry down to boot.

Also nice acknowledging that this was the first reveal to Iris of Oliver's Green Arrow identity.  Loved her line when she discovered it.

[Cthulhudrew]

That's got to be really rough for Dig. The anger he must feel about Barry erasing the daughter he now never knew, and the guilt of feeling that way knowing that he has a son he really loves now. I hope they give David Ramsey a chance to really play up the full depth of all of that, and don't just take the path of least resistance.

1 minute ago, DearEvette said:

Cisco was annoying the hell out of me this episode.  He was petty and passive aggressive.  Frickin' Aliens are invading and you need to take the time get everybody all up in their feels about Barry?  Sit your ass down.

And come on!  How is it that nobody except Oliver said "dude, not the time... we'll deal with this later."

Agreed. It's like they decided making Barry all emo in season 2 wasn't enough, and they sent Cisco down that same well. 

And as much as I agreed with Jax that they should let everyone know, I also think Oliver was absolutely right and that it should wait until crisis #1 was averted. No wrong or easy position to take on the secret keeping. This time.

[ParadoxLost]

5 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Sara mentioned it early on, said they were back with the ship ("Newbies"). I would suspect it probably had something to do with the timing of when they shot the episode (possibly before LoT began shooting, but early enough that they had the concepts of the characters down? Dunno.)

I suspect there is only a core group in all the episodes and some of team Flash will drop out next episode and they pick up some of team Arrow and then they drop when it moves onto LoT.  They made it kind of obvious that the LoT will likely involve time travel given how the dominators came before and mysteriously disappeared.  I kept waiting for the film footage to suddenly reveal one of the DC heroes.

At which point in time someone should have an aneurism about travelling to the past and changing the future, except the future only happened because they travelled back.

[quarks]

Mostly fun!

Great things:

(six year old geek out) MEANWHILE, AT THE HALL OF JUSTICE.....

(It's coming, everyone!  The Arrowverse wouldn't trick me, right?)

Good things:

1. Kara's chat with Heatwave. So hoping that Legends of Tomorrow will have more of this. That was hilarious.

2. I'm really loving the subtle way the show is letting H.R. catch on to strategies a bit faster than others. Also, YAY, somebody is going to help Wally pursue his dreams and try to make sure he's relatively safe while doing so, LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU, IRIS AND JOE.

3. Hey, the show remembered that Evil First Season Wells/AKA Reverse-Flash left Star Labs to Barry! I was wondering if that was just a product of my imagination.

4. Cracked up that it took Ray and Cisco all of seconds to start planning suit upgrades.

5. Also cracked up when Iris told Barry that this made Oliver even hotter. Nice callback.

6. Liked that no one was letting Barry off the hook that easily.

7. Oliver: "One sci-fi problem at a time." Heh.

8. The final action sequence had some seriously questionable CGI, but then again - Barry and Oliver rush in to save the day! Flash versus Supergirl! Green Arrow versus White Canary! Barry finally using his brains again! Wally.....oh, Wally. Cheesy, dumb and almost entirely awesome. That's what these crossovers are for. YAY!

Questionable things:

1. So, Diggle loses a daughter, and Stein...gains one?  

2. Did we forget that Felicity's name is Overwatch?

3. Sara, I love you, and I'm the first to agree that Barry is the worst, but you have a lot of nerve criticizing Barry for Flashpoint given that not all that long ago you nearly jeopardized a mission to try to kill Damien Darhk.

4. Sure, Thea, you won't don your costume to, you know, SAVE PEOPLE, but aliens show up and you're all, sure, I'll be cute and arrowy again. I realize the actual reason for this was "plot contrivance," but, really?

5. Oliver, I know that the real reason you wanted everyone to spend time training was to allow other characters time for their Scenes of Lengthy Exposition, but, that said, maybe, just maybe, exhausting your teammates just when they need to rest up to fight aliens was not the best move.  Also, great to have them train against Supergirl hitting them with her hardest, but unless you know for a fact that the Dominators have all of Supergirl's powers, maybe training them against her powers wasn't the most efficient use of everyone's time.

6. This is more of a Legends of Tomorrow question, but I have to say, even after listening to Future Barry's message, I'm not sure why Stein was so dead set against letting the rest of Legends hear it. Especially since, once they did learn the truth, they all - even Heatwave - agreed to go after the aliens anyway.

7. Is Barry ever going to remember that moving Diggle at high speeds like that always triggers the guy's motion sequence? And who is going to clean up that balcony? Mayo Cop?

8. So, basically, the evil aliens have just come to earth to hide out in warehouses and set up traps for superheroes? That seems....a little unambitious. And speaking of those traps, how did they know/guess that Team Flash and Friends would be coming after them? Do they know they're in a genre show?

Bad things:

1. Holy rushed exposition in the first 30 minutes, Batman! Between needing to introduce everyone - twice in many cases - and squeeze in four separate plots, it was amazing that any dialogue got out. In some cases it barely did. It's ok to let lines breathe from time to time, show. I nearly missed Sara's explanation about where the other two Legends were.

It also meant that pretty much no one got much of a chance to shine, outside of Oliver's "Here, Flash viewers, let me quickly rundown all of the major points that you've missed on my show for the last five seasons so that you can follow what's going on tomorrow night over on Arrow," speech, even if Heatwave, Caitlin, H.R. and Stein managed the occasional quick/good moment.  Everyone else felt incredibly rushed - or like a distraction, looking right at you, Wally, and your major Hero Issues of the episode.

2. I'm as stunned as all of you are that when aliens invaded the Arrowverse, they immediately picked out the single most important places in every Arrowverse city: the warehouses. Though, that said, it was kind of Flash to escort us through virtually every freaking warehouse and soundstage that's filled in for a warehouse in five seasons on Arrow.  "Kind" might be the wrong word.

3. Really, the only way to include Iris in this episode was to have her try to keep someone from being a superhero? She's a reporter. She should be reporting on things. Are you honestly trying to tell me, show, that the president getting kidnapped wouldn't be a major news story?  Made all the worse when Flash showed us another reporter reporting on things. If your script says you need a reporter, use Iris. Why isn't Iris doing that sort of thing? Or, failing that, maybe doing some research into the historical Dominators so she can tell Teams Flash, Arrow and Legends everything that ARGUS isn't bringing up? 

4. On a related note, I was kinda hoping for an Iris/Kara bind over journalism scene. Oh well. Maybe the next crossover.

5. Cisco. Oh, so much about Cisco. Let's start with HELLO CISCO. IN CASE YOU HADN'T NOTICED, ALIENS ARE INVADING AND NEED TO BE YOUR PRIORITY RIGHT NOW. I get why he's upset and angry, really, I do, but this isn't the moment.  I mean, yes, it did lead to both Barry and Oliver staying behind and thus not getting dominated, a plus, but since that was an accidental byproduct, I'm not counting it. Let's continue with HEY CISCO YOU HAVE SUPERPOWERS SO WHY AREN'T YOU OUT IN THE FIELD RIGHT NOW HELPING? Felicity, Caitlin and H.R. are all capable of providing backup here. 

6. I kinda like that the shows are continuing to press the "KEEPING SECRETS IS A BAD IDEA AND WILL GET PEOPLE MAD AT YOU AND CAUSE YOU TO LOSE FRIENDS," except that a) almost no one actually seems to learn this, b) it gets undercut when, in the same episode where this is a center issue, Iris doesn't say anything about being the one person in a rather large group who didn't know Oliver's secret identity, and c) Stein follows this up by keeping a secret, and d) H.R. and Wally follow that up by keeping a secret, bringing me back to a) if you are going to make such a point out of this, show, MAYBE STOP HAVING YOUR CHARACTERS KEEP SO MANY SECRETS.

7. These are not very convincing looking aliens, are they?

Edited November 30, 2016 by quarks

[bettername2come]

2 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Lots of nice little moments like him moving closer to Diggle and being the one to say the words about his child.

Oliver was wonderful to his surrogate brothers. He stood by them both and was gentle but honest and not hypocritical. This may be my favorite Oliver episode of this season, although that's probably going to change with the Arrow episode.

[catrice2]

Include Iris in the episode only to be whiny and to make some off the wall comment about Oliver to Barry.  I get it was a call back to some previous episode, but so unnecessary.   On second thought, Oliver and Iris would make a great couple...and Barry can be with Felicity. 

Wally is super annoying...I stand by that. Can't decide if it is the character or the actor. 

HR..what is he up to, and what makes him qualified to train Wally?

I was Super bored the whole time. Kara was like a high school girl invited to the cool party trying to make friends. 

Cisco can go any day now. 

I don't watch LOT ( I tried, and just couldn't get interested), so I was not interested in Sara and crew,  The Hawk people killed that show for me, and then losing Snart when  was willing to try again was the nail in the coffin. 

Oh Lord, will they be interacting with the Arrow newbies? Please NO!! 

I was so on board with Barry getting called on his actions, now it just seems to be way too much and at inappropriate times 

Most of the dialogue was just so wrong. 

Was Thea necessary?  

I'll have to process the episode to figure out what else annoyed me. 

[thuganomics85]

That was just fun!  The beginning was a bit rushed with how they got everyone to fall into place (and I kind of cracked up that they show how Barry gets Oliver and Kara onboard in person, but the Legends is just basically "Eh, send them a text!"), but once everyone started meeting up, it became pretty awesome.  I love that Kara managed to already memorize everyone's names.  And I am so glad they found a way to have Kara and Mick play off one another.  It was hilariously awkward as I hoped.  They better have more of that, dammit!

But Oliver/Barry continues to be my favorite.  I like how anytime those two are together, they just go into a sibling-like relationship, with Oliver as the frustrated older brother, and Barry's as the well-meaning, but impulsive younger one.  But Oliver does truly like Barry, despite the frustrations, which is nice.  And even though I've put Barry through the wringer for what he did, it was nice seeing Oliver defend him and even admit he likely would have done the same thing, after he had to watch both of his parents die in front of him.

And, really: I get it, Cisco.  I get why you are mad.  But maybe put the passive aggressiveness behind you, when you're dealing with a freaking alien invasion, dude.  Priorities, man!  I really wonder if this is all a set-up to make him an actual villain.

Hopefully there will be more of the rest of the cast going forward, since there will be two more episodes.  I really want some Kara/Sara, especially since Sara admitted she thinks Kara is hot.  I can only imagine how Kara would react if Sara started hitting on her.

Glad for the Snart mention.  I hope he returns in some form soon.

The weakest stuff was easily the non-crossover bits.  Iris has gone into overprotective mode and made everyone hide Wally's improvement from him, but at the same time, Wally is a dummy, so.... both kind of suck in this scenario?  And now he is going to be "trained" by HR, of all people? Yeah, that's going to end well!

Diggle/David Ramsey was my personal MVP of this episode, for his WTF?!!! reactions each time things got crazier and crazier, and then finding out the truth about Baby Sara.  I can only imagine how he feels.  I'm sure he loves his son, but the idea he originally had a daughter, but Barry bungled all that?  Yeah, that is a lot to take in.

So, now that the aliens mind-control failed, they have abducted Oliver, Sara, I think Firestorm, and who else?  Can't remember.  Talk about a cliffhanger! 

[benteen]

Quote

8. So, basically, the evil aliens have just come to earth to hide out in warehouses and set up traps for superheroes?

Heheh.  Even aliens use warehouses in the Arrowverse!

I don’t know how Diggle should feel about Sara.  From his POV and the others, all they’ve known and loved is John Jr.

[jmonique]

I'd have posted sooner, but I had to take a moment after listening to the Legends of Tomorrow throw side-eye at Barry for changing history.

I mean. Really.

And then there was Oliver, basically telling everyone to move on. 

I can only assume the subtitle of the episode was "Do As I Say, Not As I Do..."?

Also, what was the first meeting in the Writer's Room last summer like?

"What worked well during the first two seasons?"
"The Barry-Cisco dynamic."
"Aha. Let's f that up, then."

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't care how much this show wants me to keep blaming Barry for Flashpoint and stay mad at him, AND want everybodyFUCKINGelse to do the same-I'm NOT getting on that boat. They can just fuck off (the writers). And I can't reiterate the annoyance and eye rolls at Cisco and being so over him, his passive aggressiveness, petulant petty ass, that others have already stated. Goes for Wally too, who got his ass handed to him when he thought he did sooo great and saved Barry.

Other than that, I really enjoyed this episode and loved how Ollie had Barry's back.

So yeah, looking forward to tomorrow night.

And I though the aliens just showed the team a hallucination of the President who disappeared. Because didn't someone yell it was a trap?

[ParadoxLost]

Forgot to add.  Supergirl did in fact forget to bring the virus engineered to kill any non human and alien that is not Kyrptonian to the alien invasion.

[jmonique]

5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Goes for Wally too, who got his ass handed to him when he thought he did sooo great and saved Barry.

I'm actually on Wally's side with this. Either they train him and he can learn and grow, or they treat him like he's 7, and he runs into fights ill-equipped.

They need to suck it up and let him be Kid Flash already.

[benteen]

Quote

I'd have posted sooner, but I had to take a moment after listening to the Legends of Tomorrow throw side-eye at Barry for changing history.

Heheh, yeah.  At least no one else spoke up other than Sara the Hypocrite.  A few weeks ago you had Jax trying to convince everyone how they should change the past going forward.

[statsgirl]

I really enjoyed it. Best Flash episode this season.

I'm so over everyone saying that Barry is okay because he feels bad about what he's done. Now they've got Felicity doing it too.

I liked Sara talking about not changing the past because it's something she's been fighting this season.  Takes one to know one.

My favourite line was Sara saying "Are we supposed to pretend we don't hear him?"

Quote

So, now that the aliens mind-control failed, they have abducted Oliver, Sara, I think Firestorm, and who else?  Can't remember.  Talk about a cliffhanger! 

Oliver, Sara, Ray, Thea and Diggle I believe.

I'd really prefer the Arrow Team B to stay away in the Arrow episode, there are more awesome people coming over from the other shows.

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Has Donnelly Rhodes character been in the Arrowverse before?  He seems familiar but then again that might be because he pops up on a lot of shows.

Not in Arrowverse I don't think although he is in a lot of shows.  A lot of Da Vinci's Inquest.  And for those with very long memories, he was Mr. Chancellor on The Young And The Restless way back in the day.

Edited November 30, 2016 by statsgirl

[DearEvette]

7 minutes ago, jmonique said:

I'd have posted sooner, but I had to take a moment after listening to the Legends of Tomorrow throw side-eye at Barry for changing history.

Ha!  I know right?  Did I hear they were possibly blaming Barry for Stein's new daughter?  Because given how much Stein has interacted with his past self...it is entirely possible that this all on him.

Also wasn't Rip Hunter's entire motivation all last season was defeating and stopping Vandal Savage's rise to power so it would undo his killing Rip's wife and kid?

[ParadoxLost]

3 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't care how much this show wants me to keep blaming Barry for Flashpoint and stay mad at him, AND want everybodyFUCKINGelse to do the same-I'm NOT getting on that boat. They can just fuck off (the writers). And I can't reiterate the annoyance and eye rolls at Cisco and being so over him, his passive aggressiveness, petulant petty ass, that others have already stated. Goes for Wally too, who got his ass handed to him when he thought he did sooo great and saved Barry.

Other than that, I really enjoyed this episode and loved how Ollie had Barry's back.

I don't think the writers want the audience to keep blaming Barry.  I think this episode was crafted in large part to do the opposite.  Its basically one big bow tied lets let bygones be bygones by doing the following:

- Cisco is endangering the planet because he's holding a grudge when Cisco was on board with changing the time line himself

- Mr. "I shot Barry twice in the back to teach him a lesson" understands what Barry did and doesn't hate him for it

- Barry confessed to everyone so that anvil is taken care of

- Those who got pissed were pissed enough not just to walk away from Barry but also Oliver when Oliver stood up for him. Then tried to kill both of them because they got duped and mind controlled.

- Somehow they intuitively knew how Barry removed their mind control and forgave him and were good with him leading when before his time travel secret was out they knew he was only an Oliver appointed figure head

- We also have some mysterious consequence to Barry via Iris and self loathing which the show will use as self inflicted punishment to remove the need to have the other characters angry at him.

I recognize when I'm being manipulated.  But honestly, I don't care.  Barry is pretty much the only thing I consistently like about this show.  The above is enough for me to say, its fine and lets move on and hope that this time the no changing the past rule sticks.

[statsgirl]

I think of Rip Hunter stopping Vandal Savage as more of a surgical or precision strike. Barry just emotionally jumps in there and to hell with any consequences to anyone else.

[ruby24]

I hope they use the byline change to make Iris a TV reporter instead. I can imagine them using her more as that.

[blugirlami21]

Quote

I think of Rip Hunter stopping Vandal Savage as more of a surgical or precision strike. Barry just emotionally jumps in there and to hell with any consequences to anyone else.

I have to disagree with that.  Everything Rip did about Savage was personally motivated.  He seemed perfectly fine towing the line with time masters until his wife and son were killed by Savage.  Most things the legends do is personally motivated.  Hell everything most of these heroes do is personally motivated.  The only one I may leave out of that is Kara but she's still a newbie.

So let's say no one ever lets Barry off the hook for changing the timeline.  Where does that leave us?  How should Barry be punished for what he did?  How long should Barry be punished for what he did?  

I personally feel like Barry gave up quite a bit to fix his mistake and is doing everything he can to atone for the timeline changes. Ymmv.

[KirkB]

Honestly, with Kara there I'd think you hardly need anybody else. Though I did have a good laugh when their 'training' turned out to be Kara floating in midair while everyone else shot and blasted her and she pretended to notice.

I'm a bit surprised that I was surprised by the fact Iris didn't know Oliver was the Green Arrow. I was pretty sure that had come up already. Joe knew. Was Iris really not around those times Oliver was at Star Labs?

The Hall of Justice! It's a little odd how giddily nostalgic seeing that made me. Though out of curiosity, how many other people here were actually around to see it the first time?

I get Wally. I do. But I still don't care.

I'll need to watch this again before I can say more.

[statsgirl]

Iris wasn't around Star Labs when Oliver was visiting before. She wasn't in the know.

9 minutes ago, blugirlami21 said:

 How long should Barry be punished for what he did? 

Personally, I think until he learns never to do it again.  And to think about the consequences to other people beyond himself.

It's like with Oliver. Stephan Amell is always saying that Oliver has been punished for what he did (lying about William) but as with Barry, the people around him are punished more and they didn't do anything wrong.

[CabotCove]

Quote

-Sara…love Sara but she’s the last person who should be lecturing about Barry saving someone he loves when she’s spent about six months trying to alter history to save her sister.

So ridiculous and hypocritical, the legends should be the last people to lecture anyone on tinkering with time . Many of them have done something at one point to mess with time. Sara decided not to kill Darkh yes still gave vital information to a supervillain that could have an effect on history and future, and Stein now has a daughter due to interfering with time. They shouldnt be Barry's fans, but maybe they shouldnt be a bit more understanding and not judge so much.

 

Quote

 Barry needs to get yelled at a little by the team, especially about baby Sarah. 

Really, hasnt he taken enough of a beating already. The person he thought was his best friend (Cisco) just humiliated him twice in front of everyone. Many of the characters were angry with him in this, even those who had done something similar. Its been 8 episodes so far of someone getting angry at him for the Flashpoint thing. What more yelling does he need......  

I know the show want to show that Barry is facing real consequences, but its getting repetitive and extreme now. What good does it do to continually beat down your hero/main character and make him a punching bag for everyone. Nothing good for the show IMO. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by HeroLeague