OK...What's Next?

[sistermagpie]

32 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

I call Donald Trump a lot of names because he infuriates me but truly, this has nothing at all to do with disliking him in this instance:  Trump truly has no grasp of how dangerous his bed-fellows are in this.   He's either tragically dim, or mentally unwell, but this is like giving an anthrax coated salt block a big lick.  

Sadly, one reason he probably doesn't even care about this stuff is he's pretty sure that he wouldn't be on the receiving end of anything Putin was handing out. I think that's been a guiding force in his whole life, actually. He's never had to deal with consequences for his actions the way someone with less money would. So all his solutions to problems require having lots of money. Like Trump University telling people to get rich by investing millions in real estate. Or saying that if Ivanka was harassed at work she'd just get another job. And of course he likes to tell himself that the reason he's never had to use food stamps is because he's so good with money, despite the bankruptcies.

[EyewatchTV211]

Yes, the food stamp fraud study being reported by Fox News is false. The USDA denies existence of their supposed study: 

ETA: There's more if you click on it. I seem to have issues with embedding pictures/media lately. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by VMepicgrl

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 3:03 PM, AntiBeeSpray said:

This is the first time in my life (even during the reigns of Reagan and Bush jr.) where I'm not even saying 'Happy New Year', as the year certainly won't be that happy, given things.

Someone wished me a Happy New Year this afternoon and I should have just reciprocated. But I didn't. I said I'm really concerned about the new year especially starting January 20th. It turns out the person I was talking to (whom I really only know enough to nod and say "Hi" at the health club) is a full on Trumpite.  He said if I'm worried about the country imagine what it would have been like if Hillary would have won, she would have destroyed our country's democracy and brought in socialism. (Yeah, Hillary Clinton, that centrist-right Democrat.) He said the Department of Education has mandated that schools cannot teach about Washington or Jefferson because they were slave owners. (Does anyone know where he got that tidbit because I Googled it and I can't find anything on it. It sounds like Fox news faux news to me.) When I pointed out that the individual states dictate school curriculum not the federal  government, he insisted it was tied to federal funding.  Thank goodness the club was closing early so I could say I had to go because otherwise my head would have exploded.

I used to think Trump and his people were living in an alternate reality, but now I wonder if I'm the one who's in the alternate reality.  Like "the Upside-Down" from the show Stranger Things.  It's kind of like the real world but it's dark, cold and empty. And there are monsters.

[AntiBeeSpray]

6 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Someone wished me a Happy New Year this afternoon and I should have just reciprocated. But I didn't. I said I'm really concerned about the new year especially starting January 20th. It turns out the person I was talking to (whom I really only know enough to nod and say "Hi" at the health club) is a full on Trumpite.  He said if I'm worried about the country imagine what it would have been like if Hillary would have won, she would have destroyed our country's democracy and brought in socialism. (Yeah, Hillary Clinton, that centrist-right Democrat.) He said the Department of Education has mandated that schools cannot teach about Washington or Jefferson because they were slave owners. (Does anyone know where he got that tidbit because I Googled it and I can't find anything on it. It sounds like Fox news faux news to me.) When I pointed out that the individual states dictate school curriculum not the federal  government, he insisted it was tied to federal funding.  Thank goodness the club was closing early so I could say I had to go because otherwise my head would have exploded.

I used to think Drumpf and his people were living in an alternate reality, but now I wonder if I'm the one who's in the alternate reality.  Like "the Upside-Down" from the show Stranger Things.  It's kind of like the real world but it's dark, cold and empty. And there are monsters.

Yea maybe there. Nothing like having to during that kind of situation. Having to fake it. Never know if the other person is like what you mentioned above. But still, what you said makes sense.

I might have said either 'Have a nice night' or 'hope you have a good new year'.

[bmasters9]

Remember this? This was World News Tonight w/the late Peter Jennings, from Jan. 19, 1989, one day before the inauguration of George H.W. Bush as President that year (Dan Quayle being his V.P.):

From what I've seen, this WNT from Washington seemed to be the very definition of the "just the facts, ma'am" reporting that has been so lacking in this current election, both during the election, and after (this has the commercials of the time too).

[possibilities]

Someone sent me this article, and I just can't get through it. I don't know what it is, but it just feels like I'm slogging through cement. If anyone has better brains than I do, I'd love to know if it actually says anything useful: The Curious World of Donald Trump's Private Russian Connections

[fastiller]

Some of you guys have mentioned not feeling into wishing others Happy New Year.  Well, I do want to wish all of you in this little p.tv 'family' a very happy & healthy new year. May 2017 be the year that those with closed eyes have them opened.   

Edited January 1, 2017 by fastiller

[editorgrrl]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/31/opinion/sunday/try-a-new-years-revolution.html

Quote

If the weight-loss industry and the fitness industry and even, it seems, the president-elect would rather have you counting calories instead of all the frightening ways the world has changed since November, if they want you spending your money on commercial diet plans instead of giving it to Planned Parenthood, then you can recommit to self-acceptance, and on doing work that will ultimately matter more than the shape of your body.

Personally, I’m planning on taking the money that previous Januarys might have gone to Weight Watchers or the diet book of the moment, and using it instead on bus tickets from Philadelphia to Washington for the women’s march on Jan. 21.

[candall]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Someone wished me a Happy New Year this afternoon and I should have just reciprocated. But I didn't. I said I'm really concerned about the new year especially starting January 20th. It turns out the person I was talking to (whom I really only know enough to nod and say "Hi" at the health club) is a full on Trumpite. ...

I haven't been going out into public much since this all went down.  (My whole county is still awash in Trump/Pence yard signs.  What's the half-life on those things anyway?)

But I have an annual chore at the bank that had to be taken care of and I like the teller, who knows to expect me.  She was so cheery:  "SO!  How's everything going for you, Candall?"  Uh. . . . ?   "Well, I'm still in a little bit of shock from the election."  And she said, "I know!  How unbelievable was that?!"

I'm pretty sure we were talking about different things, and I think we both knew that, but all in all, I'm grateful we both left it in neutral and it didn't get any worse.  (For example, catching up with a long-distance friend yesterday, he suddenly announced he knew "secret bad things" about Hillary--which he wasn't at liberty to reveal.  Ai yi yi.)

 

I don't see this division, this polarization, settling down anytime in the near future.  I think, at least for me, a certain wariness is going to be a new part of life.  I don't feel comfortable being open and chatty anymore.  So that's another sad thing, on top of everything else.

[Duke Silver]

[Duke Silver]

[ebk57]

1 hour ago, fastiller said:

Some of you guys have mentioned not feeling into wishing others Happy New Year.  Well, I do want to wish all of you in this little p.tv 'family' a very happy & healthy new year. May 2017 be the year that those with closed eyes have them opened.   

I second this!  I've opened the bottle of champagne I had chilled for...that night...and I wanted to wish everyone here a Better New Year!  Thanks for the companionship and all the thoughtful, intelligent posts!

[navelgazer]

Obama is using the lame duck to set traps for Twitler and his gang of KGOPB allies, traps within the bureaucracy that literally only experts at the inner workings of the federal government where passed laws get turned into rule-making get turned over for a public comment period.  Twitler and his cabinet-level neophytes will have no idea how to untangle themselves  Obama will be laughing as he saunters into history, knowing that though he could not constitutionally stop the Twitler inauguration, he could make them trying to govern a proverbial hell on earth.  JMHO.

[Kromm]

3 hours ago, VMepicgrl said:

Yes, the food stamp fraud study being reported by Fox News is false. The USDA denies existence of their supposed study: 

ETA: There's more if you click on it. I seem to have issues with embedding pictures/media lately. 

Wow. Fake News on Breitbart. What a shock!

Then again, they DO run the country now (well, along with Putin). So if they make it up?  Guess they're allowed to now, right?

[Lantern7]

One more celebrity death. Not really my generation, but I'm sure some of you remember him.

Is it possible to have an operation done on the "president-elect" where he can learn empathy? Or have him improve to the status of asshole, which would be more bearable than what we have now? Maybe Obama can shrug his shoulders and claim that he lost the keys to the White House. That would give us a week, minimum.

[galaxygirl76]

16 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Maybe Obama can shrug his shoulders and claim that he lost the keys to the White House. That would give us a week, minimum.

That sounds like a job for Joe.

[anyanka323]

35 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Is it possible to have an operation done on the "president-elect" where he can learn empathy? Or have him improve to the status of asshole, which would be more bearable than what we have now? Maybe Obama can shrug his shoulders and claim that he lost the keys to the White House. That would give us a week, minimum.

He and Michelle could also have the dogs dig holes in the White House lawn and bury any documentation that would be dangerous in the hands of Comrade Orange like printouts and flash drives with the nuclear launch codes, the White House wi-fi passwords, etc.  Then have the dogs do their business in the open holes and cover them up.  That could give us maybe a 6 month reprieve of his first war caused via a Twitter insult. 

[Rae Spellman]

Quote

 He said if I'm worried about the country imagine what it would have been like if Hillary would have won, she would have destroyed our country's democracy and brought in socialism. (Yeah, Hillary Clinton, that centrist-right Democrat.) He said the Department of Education has mandated that schools cannot teach about Washington or Jefferson because they were slave owners. (Does anyone know where he got that tidbit because I Googled it and I can't find anything on it.

Interestingly enough, I taught in a small school district where all of the elementary schools were named after presidents. In a region where communities have changed the names of plenty of schools, there are many, many schools named after Washington and Jefferson today.

In California, American History teachers are expected to teach Washington and Jefferson. A few 8th grade Social Studies/ History standards are listed below. So, no, I can't imagine how that man came the conclusion that US Department of Education took those two presidents out of the curriculum. The thing is, if he really wanted to fact check, it shouldn't be difficult. I imagine California isn't the only state with their standards online. And the district where I taught can't be the only one where anyone could go to the district office, or their neighborhood school and pick up a copy of the standards.

Quote

 

8.2.5 Describe the political philosophy underpinning the Constitution as specified in the Federalist Papers (authored by James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and John Jay) and the role of such leaders as Madison, George Washington, Roger Sherman, Gouverneur Morris, and James Wilson in the writing and ratification of the Constitution. 5. Understand the significance of Jefferson’s Statute for Religious Freedom as a forerunner of the First Amendment and the origins, purpose, and differing views of the founding fathers on the issue of the separation of church and state.

8.4.1. Describe the country’s physical landscapes, political divisions, and territorial expansion durig the terms of the first four presidents.

8.4.2. Explain the policy significance of famous speeches (e.g., Washington’s Farewell Address, Jefferson’s 1801 Inaugural Address, John Q. Adams’s Fourth of July 1821 Address).

 

Edited January 1, 2017 by RaeSpellman
changed interesting to interestingly

[Lantern7]

Happy New Year. And less than 19.5 days before total insanity.

[fastiller]

I just now noticed what the elephant avatar in the LOLGOP twitter feed (see @Duke Silver's recent posts) is doing. TeeHee!!!

[aradia22]

This is just a good (and valid) criticism of RENT but I found the last few minutes a relevant reminder as we head into this new year. 

"Because in rejecting the system, you are not only failing to tear it down, you are also forfeiting any voice in it."

Giving up and walking away feels tempting but that's just what TPTB want and expect. This isn't the first time things have been terrible and we have endured. 

[Rae Spellman]

19 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

When I pointed out that the individual states dictate school curriculum not the federal  government, he insisted it was tied to federal funding.

You are correct. According to the US Department of Education,

Quote

Standards represent the goals for what students should learn. They are different from curriculum, which means what teachers teach, and how. Federal policies encourage states to adopt high standards, but do not touch on curriculum, which is a state and local matter.

[NewDigs]

Regarding the education standards, we can't forget that no matter where you live the great state of Texas decided on what's in most of the textbooks used nationally.

As a for instance:

'In 2009 Dr. McLeroy and his like minded colleagues on the Board were successful in requiring Texas science text books to address the “strengths and weaknesses” of scientific theories such as evolution. In a January 2010  interview with Mariah Blake of the Washington Monthly discussing that issue, Dr.McLeroy said of the Board’s decision: “Wooey. We won the Grand Slam, and the Super Bowl.. .. Our science standards are light years ahead of any other state when it comes to challenging evolution.”'

[possibilities]

Sometimes instead of refuting their "facts" with real facts, I ask questions, like: "Really? Where did you hear that? I thought [this is how it works for real but said in a milder way]. " Then after they tell me where they got their "info" and how they came to their conclusions, I say something like: "Huh. That's so different than what I learned from [source of real information]." They may not get curious enough to check my sources, or they may say my sources are bad, but I just stay friendly as much as I can, like "Okay, I just never heard that before, and it's really surprising to me, because ____ " or "I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens" or some other sort of open-minded seeming thing. Some people will not de-escalate no matter what you say, but the calmer you can stay in the face of outrageous BS, the less they have to hook on to and fight about. And the less I find my own day gets ruined by the stupidity.

I also like to toss out anecdotes, like "I know a lot of teachers and they all teach about Washington and Jefferson-- thank God! It would be terrible to hide the truth like that, so I'm glad the schools I know about don't do that" or "The people I know who are on food stamps are really struggling, and it's so hard to qualify for those benefits, I'd hate to see them get cut or be made harder to get. It's comforting to know it's there in case something really terrible happens and this way at least we won't have people starving in the streets like in some places in the world."

Try to agree as much as possible: "I agree that fraud is a terrible thing. I wish there were more ways to stop it wherever it happens! But let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. I don't want anyone to be hungry, and there is so much food going to waste in this world! I wish we could connect the hungry people with the wasted food. Most people on food stamps are working-- can you imagine what it would be like to work and still not have enough food? I'm really grateful not to be in that position." Or "It's really upsetting that we had slaves in this country, but I definitely think we need to teach kids all about the Founding Fathers. We can't be smart about the present if we don't know anything about the past!! I think we should check the local schools to find out exactly what they are teaching about Washington and Jefferson, and publicize what they tell us so more people will know about this!"

Kind of throw it back on them. I learned this in the 1980s from a group that was running a service to help single moms in poverty. They would contact the local right to life groups and tell them they had a mother and child who needed food/clothes/diapers/whatever, and they knew the right-to-lifers cared about babies, so they were calling to ask them to help. Sometimes they did get help, because the people either truly cared about babies or they didn't want to seem like hypocrites and have it exposed in the media.

Telling people they're wrong or stupid gets their back up, but trying to engage them SOMETIMES (not always) either shuts them up, makes them think, or actually gets them to do something in the reality-based universe. If you can find ANYTHING to agree with them about, or ANY values they espouse that you can affirm, there's at least a tiny toehold of not fighting. "I hate that my taxes are so high also, it's so hard to make ends meet. I wish we had a better system. I don't know how they manage in Sweden where their rates are so much higher. I guess they think it's worth it for the free healthcare and education and they have a really awesome safety net there. Sometimes it's hard to figure out what system is best or when the trade offs are worth it."

I've actually had someone tell me I was stupid and naive because I don't follow Brietbart and I idiotically believe the lies told my the mainstream media. So I know that being polite doesn't always work. I tried to stay calm and said that calling me stupid didn't really convince me of anything, and I was curious why they found Brietbart more credible than the MSM. There was no answer, just more spluttering about how naive people like me are why this country is so bad off.

Edited January 1, 2017 by possibilities

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, NewDigs said:

Regarding the education standards, we can't forget that no matter where you live the great state of Texas decided on what's in most of the textbooks used nationally.

As a for instance:

'In 2009 Dr. McLeroy and his like minded colleagues on the Board were successful in requiring Texas science text books to address the “strengths and weaknesses” of scientific theories such as evolution. In a January 2010  interview with Mariah Blake of the Washington Monthly discussing that issue, Dr.McLeroy said of the Board’s decision: “Wooey. We won the Grand Slam, and the Super Bowl.. .. Our science standards are light years ahead of any other state when it comes to challenging evolution.”'

You beat me to the punch.  Yet another reason I floved the "Fuck Texas" bit.

 

54 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Sometimes instead of refuting their "facts" with real facts, I ask questions, like: "Really? Where did you hear that? I thought [this is how it works for real but said in a milder way]. " Then after they tell me where they got their "info" and how they came to their conclusions, I say something like: "Huh. That's so different than what I learned from [source of real information]." They may not get curious enough to check my sources, or they may say my sources are bad, but I just stay friendly as much as I can, like "Okay, I just never heard that before, and it's really surprising to me, because ____ " or "I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens" or some other sort of open-minded seeming thing. Some people will not de-escalate no matter what you say, but the calmer you can stay in the face of outrageous BS, the less they have to hook on to and fight about. And the less I find my own day gets ruined by the stupidity.

I also like to toss out anecdotes, like "I know a lot of teachers and they all teach about Washington and Jefferson-- thank God! It would be terrible to hide the truth like that, so I'm glad the schools I know about don't do that" or "The people I know who are on food stamps are really struggling, and it's so hard to qualify for those benefits, I'd hate to see them get cut or be made harder to get. It's comforting to know it's there in case something really terrible happens and this way at least we won't have people starving in the streets like in some places in the world."

Try to agree as much as possible: "I agree that fraud is a terrible thing. I wish there were more ways to stop it wherever it happens! But let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. I don't want anyone to be hungry, and there is so much food going to waste in this world! I wish we could connect the hungry people with the wasted food. Most people on food stamps are working-- can you imagine what it would be like to work and still not have enough food? I'm really grateful not to be in that position." Or "It's really upsetting that we had slaves in this country, but I definitely think we need to teach kids all about the Founding Fathers. We can't be smart about the present if we don't know anything about the past!! I think we should check the local schools to find out exactly what they are teaching about Washington and Jefferson, and publicize what they tell us so more people will know about this!"

Kind of throw it back on them. I learned this in the 1980s from a group that was running a service to help single moms in poverty. They would contact the local right to life groups and tell them they had a mother and child who needed food/clothes/diapers/whatever, and they knew the right-to-lifers cared about babies, so they were calling to ask them to help. Sometimes they did get help, because the people either truly cared about babies or they didn't want to seem like hypocrites and have it exposed in the media.

Telling people they're wrong or stupid gets their back up, but trying to engage them SOMETIMES (not always) either shuts them up, makes them think, or actually gets them to do something in the reality-based universe. If you can find ANYTHING to agree with them about, or ANY values they espouse that you can affirm, there's at least a tiny toehold of not fighting. "I hate that my taxes are so high also, it's so hard to make ends meet. I wish we had a better system. I don't know how they manage in Sweden where their rates are so much higher. I guess they think it's worth it for the free healthcare and education and they have a really awesome safety net there. Sometimes it's hard to figure out what system is best or when the trade offs are worth it."

I've actually had someone tell me I was stupid and naive because I don't follow Brietbart and I idiotically believe the lies told my the mainstream media. So I know that being polite doesn't always work. I tried to stay calm and said that calling me stupid didn't really convince me of anything, and I was curious why they found Brietbart more credible than the MSM. There was no answer, just more spluttering about how naive people like me are why this country is so bad off.

I used to be thoughful and polite (Canadian that I STILL am).  Now I have zero fucks to give, and have no qualms about telling ignorant asswipes to go fuck themselves and move on with my reclusive little life.  I no longer feel the need to suffer fools.  As my Canadian friends used to say, "walnutqueen, you've become so RUDE since you moved to The States".  :-)

[Duke Silver]

I thought this was a good read to get a grasp of what Putin is doing.   It includes a not-at-all-veiled appeal to Trump to basically quit being such a bitch, accept & acknowledge Putin hacked our election & man-up for the Republic.  I normally embed quotes, but won't bother here.  It's worth reading in entirety.

 

The world order we know is already over, and Russia is moving fast to grab the advantage.

[Padma]

I don't understand why Trump isn't under tremendous pressure (or...any pressure) to reassure Americans that he didn't conspire with Putin to intervene against Hillary.

After all, it certainly looks like he did--wasn't surprised by the hack and exploited it at every campaign rally. Even made a direct plea to the camera at a press conference for Putin/Russia intelligence to do more of them.

And now he keeps trying to convince everyone that Russia is innocent of wrongdoing (despite all the facts completely convincing 17 intelligence agencies and bipartisan members of Congress to the contrary).  Yet Trump still continues to oppose our president's actions and statements and praise and defend Putin.

"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...."   Trump should be on the defensive now. It is only the abject weakness of the Democratic leadership and the cowardice of the media that is letting him get away with this.

[Pixel]

6 minutes ago, Padma said:

I don't understand why Trump isn't under tremendous pressure (or...any pressure) to reassure Americans that he didn't conspire with Putin to intervene against Hillary.

After all, it certainly looks like he did--wasn't surprised by the hack and exploited it at every campaign rally. Even made a direct plea to the camera at a press conference for Putin/Russia intelligence to do more of them.

And now he keeps trying to convince everyone that Russia is innocent of wrongdoing (despite all the facts completely convincing 17 intelligence agencies and bipartisan members of Congress to the contrary).  Yet Trump still continues to oppose our president's actions and statements and praise and defend Putin.

"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...."   Trump should be on the defensive now. It is only the abject weakness of the Democratic leadership and the cowardice of the media that is letting him get away with this.

My theory is that he's keeping up this front to stay in Putin's good graces, and he's being allowed to do so to keep us distracted while his gang from the Island of Miscreant Toys is doing the real work to begin tearing apart our governmental infrastructure. 

[Chicken Wing]

Trump should be under pressure to reassure his constituents -- us, everyone in America -- of a lot of things. His taxes, his business interests, his foreign ties. But no one bothers to hold him accountable for anything. And it seems like every other day there's another thing, another red flag, that Trump ought to answer for, and no one calls him on it, never calls him on his blatant lies, never holds him accountable, never tries to not let him get away with fucking the country over.

[NewDigs]

And I really don't understand why the practice of padding votes for Trump was not better exposed. 

And really not at all questioned. Just a ,"HoHum, nothing to see here" kind of response.

Those responsible should have been exposed and, dare I say, prosecuted for tampering with a Federal election.

 

'Donald Trump’s margin of victory in Wisconsin appears to be shrinking even before the state’s recount gets underway, according to a new report that cites a number of precincts padding the vote count in Trump’s favor.

According to the Palmer Report, some precincts realized the numbers were padded to benefit Trump and had to revise their numbers. As a result, 5,000 votes were essentially wiped out of Trump’s column in an instant. What’s particularly puzzling, the report noted, is that Clinton’s numbers remained virtually unchanged, despite Trump losing thousands of votes from his total.'

I don't care that those votes might not have changed the results. It's just WRONG!!

And it didn't just happen in Wisconsin.

What's going to happen in 2018? This whole thing just exhausts me.

[sistermagpie]

13 minutes ago, Padma said:

I don't understand why Trump isn't under tremendous pressure (or...any pressure) to reassure Americans that he didn't conspire with Putin to intervene against Hillary.

Didn't one of his surrogates recently demand to know why we weren't talking about the real story there...like how HILLARY tried to influence the election?

By campaigning, I guess.

Since nobody's stopping this sort of thing I guess there's no reason for them to stop It's not like their conscience is going to bother them.

[needschocolate]

22 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

 It turns out the person I was talking to (whom I really only know enough to nod and say "Hi" at the health club) is a full on Trumpite.  He said if I'm worried about the country imagine what it would have been like if Hillary would have won, she would have destroyed our country's democracy and brought in socialism. (Yeah, Hillary Clinton, that centrist-right Democrat.) He said the Department of Education has mandated that schools cannot teach about Washington or Jefferson because they were slave owners. (Does anyone know where he got that tidbit because I Googled it and I can't find anything on it. It sounds like Fox news faux news to me.) When I pointed out that the individual states dictate school curriculum not the federal  government, he insisted it was tied to federal funding.  Thank goodness the club was closing early so I could say I had to go because otherwise my head would have exploded.

My guess is that they learned this from an email sent to them by one of their right-wing nutjob friends.  

The internet can be a wonderful thing (as anyone who just can't seem to remember the lyrics to a song can tell you), but it also can spread misinformation at the speed of lightening, and it helps the ones with illogical ideas find others who agree with them.  Add in that there are many people who assume that anything written down or told to them by a friend must be true, and you have the perfect climate for this sort of inanity.  

Email where my father gets most of his information (he also watches Fox, the only fair and balanced news source).  My father forwards me emails (likely in an attempt to cure me of what he believes are my leftist socialist views - even though I am actually quite moderate).  These emails are ridiculously illogical, yet, as long as they are anti-democrat, or anti-Obama, or anti-Hillary, he believes them completely.  Usually, I don't respond, but he once commented that info in the email ("Obama salutes the flag by grabbing his crotch") made him regret serving in the Navy, so I emailed him back stating that I didn't want him to feel this way and I checked it out and Obama wasn't grabbing his crotch, he was just standing with his hands in front of him, and the reason why he wasn't saluting like everyone else in the photo is because those other people were saluting Obama and you don't salute yourself.  I sent him the Snopes link.

He responded with an email stating that Snopes is biased and untrustworthy and run by liberals.  It mentioned another site as the only fair and true fact-checking site.  So, of course, I went to that site and checked out what they have to say about Snopes, which was that Snopes is the most unbaised site around.  

There is no point in trying to discuss anything with people like this.  It is like trying to have a discussion with a brick.

Handling the delusion, gullibility, and stupidity is bad enough, but what is driving me off the edge is the hypocrisy. My father sent many emails that complained about how much it costs the taxpayers every time Obama went to Hawaii, but he is totally fine with Trump wanting to spend half his time in NYC while collecting rent from the Secret Service who are renting a floor of Trump Tower.  He accuses Clinton or Obama of hiding important information, but doesn't think it is necessary for Trump to release his tax returns (his defense "I wouldn't know how to read his returns, so why do I need to see them?").  When someone pointed out, as proof of Trump being a liar, that Trump said for years that he had proof that Obama wasn't born in the US and then says that Obama was born in the US, my father replied that there is no proof that Obama was born in the US and that Trump never said that he was.  

Apparently, half my DNA came from a brick.

[Padma]

13 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

And I really don't understand why the practice of padding votes for Trump was not better exposed. 

And really not at all questioned. Just a ,"HoHum, nothing to see here" kind of response.

Those responsible should have been exposed and, dare I say, prosecuted for tampering with a Federal election.

 

'Donald Trump’s margin of victory in Wisconsin appears to be shrinking even before the state’s recount gets underway, according to a new report that cites a number of precincts padding the vote count in Trump’s favor.

According to the Palmer Report, some precincts realized the numbers were padded to benefit Trump and had to revise their numbers. As a result, 5,000 votes were essentially wiped out of Trump’s column in an instant. What’s particularly puzzling, the report noted, is that Clinton’s numbers remained virtually unchanged, despite Trump losing thousands of votes from his total.'

I don't care that those votes might not have changed the results. It's just WRONG!!

And it didn't just happen in Wisconsin.

What's going to happen in 2018? This whole thing just exhausts me.

With those recounts blocked in Michigan and Penn--and a handcount forbidden in Wisconsin--Trump's lead STILL dropped from 107,000 to 77,000 from "padded (i.e. nonexistent)" original votes.  And then in Detroit they found the seals on over 20 voting machines had been broken--so serious an action that the votes can no longer be assumed to be accurate and counted.

Yet.... silence.

Republicans--both officials and grass roots (tea party, Trumpkins, etc.) have shown that IF people make a fuss about something like this, the media will pay attention.  If this happened to Republicans, there WOULD be continuing conversation about this in the national press--for the past two months and going forward, with the idea of "Clinton's illegitimacy" front and center every day and pressure on her to "reach out to the other side".

Reading Donna Brazile's completely defeatist comments this morning ("looking forward to working with the new president".....), I'm about ready to give up on Democratic leaders.

At the moment, I'd happily vote for Even McMullin or even Lindsay Graham.

[parisprincess]

You know, there are probably a lot of people who would contact their elected officials, but aren't sure of their ability to put into words what they want to say in a concise way. I remember the first time (many, many years ago) that I had to write a cover letter to send with my resume and I wanted it to look as professional as possible. Fortunately, there were books (no computers) that dealt with business practices that had samples of appropriate letters. That gave me a place to start in composing my own letter. Maybe if people had access to examples of what to say and how to say it, it would make it easier for them to let the TPTB know of their dissatisfaction with what is happening.

I'd like to see everyone start an email/letter writing campaign and flood their elected officials with their discontent. I plan to start with Senators McCain and Graham, thanking them for putting country ahead of party regarding the Russian hacking. One email/letter won't do anything, but if enough people participate, perhaps the message will be received. If nothing else, I'll feel better for having voiced my opinion.

[random chance]

47 minutes ago, needschocolate said:

Handling the delusion, gullibility, and stupidity is bad enough, but what is driving me off the edge is the hypocrisy.

God yes, that really is the worst part. If someone is just misinformed, at least you can still tell yourself it's not a character defect.

[possibilities]

There are letter-writing services that will give you a letter and you just have to sign it. I used to write for one of them (www.progressivesecretary.org)-- but they are run by volunteers and have been less active lately than they used to be. Move on also provides letters like this. I forget the names of some of the others.

I agree the Democratic leadership is ineffectual, moribund, and inexplicably passive. There are people trying to change this, but I don't know if they will succeed. It's sickening. WHY are they so weak?? The Republicans are highly organized, and whatever I think of their ideas, they are not passive and they get things done. It's maddening that the Dems don't even now have it together to respond to ANYTHING or capitalize on OPPORTUNITIES being handed to them SEVERAL TIMES A DAY. Morons.

RE: not having a fuck left to give for the immoral stupidity of Trump supporters, it's not like I think all we need to do is hold hands and smile for things to get better. It's more that they terrify me, and when they are bearing down, I feel that sometimes I had better fight rather than die without even trying not to do so. I find that people like this can be very threatening and destructive, so sometimes being polite and engaging is safer than ignoring them or letting them beat you senseless.

But yes, I get it that sometimes there is no point and a quiet escape is the better course.

When I try, it's because of my fear, and also because there are a damn lot of these people and I feel like ignoring them is not going to make them go away. Plus, I have at times in the past had productive conversations and occasional alliances with people who seemed to be irreconcilably opposed to my fundamental values and even my basic experience of reality, so it hasn't ALWAYS been a futile waste of energy.

But when it's not worth it, don't do it. I do like to spend time with you all, and if there's a forum for people who are excited and happy about the inauguration, note that I'm not spending any time there, either.

[NewDigs]

1 hour ago, parisprincess said:

I'd like to see everyone start an email/letter writing campaign and flood their elected officials with their discontent. I plan to start with Senators McCain and Graham, thanking them for putting country ahead of party regarding the Russian hacking. One email/letter won't do anything, but if enough people participate, perhaps the message will be received. If nothing else, I'll feel better for having voiced my opin

While I have nothing concrete to offer right here right now, this thread has, in the past, offered contact info and even scripts for the phone calls and letters. 

This holiday season has whupped my already very tired (post election) ass, and I'm sure I'm not alone, and what you suggest and request is vitally important.

I love the scripts.  I have a tendency to babble in an attempt to fill dead air. 

It seems such an uphill battle. I feel so defeated when I hear about the Donna Brazile kumbaya effort and the WSJ thinking that fact-checking is perceived as opinions etc. etc. etc.

Edited January 2, 2017 by NewDigs

[Duke Silver]

LMAO...as I have said many times, no one does deflection better than the GOP, though Trump & Goons are taking these types of tactics to a new (low) level.  It's almost art.  Spicer is the perfect frontman for Trump & Goons.

 

Spicer: 'What did Hillary Clinton do to influence the election?'

[OrigamiNightmare]

12 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

LMAO...as I have said many times, no one does deflection better than the GOP, though Trump & Goons are taking these types of tactics to a new (low) level.  It's almost art.  Spicer is the perfect frontman for Trump & Goons.

 

Spicer: 'What did Hillary Clinton do to influence the election?'

Wow, just, ... just wow.

[Padma]

15 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

LMAO...as I have said many times, no one does deflection better than the GOP, though Trump & Goons are taking these types of tactics to a new (low) level.  It's almost art.  Spicer is the perfect frontman for Trump & Goons.

 

Spicer: 'What did Hillary Clinton do to influence the election?'

Did Stephanopolous say NOTHING to challenge this?  #1 Hillary didn't get "debate" questions in the primary.  Brazile called an aide and passed on one (or two--it's still unclear) questions that might be used in the upcoming Flint townhall.  The one I know of (which may be the only one) was "What will you do about our water as president?" Wow. 

We don't even know if they passed that question on to Hillary. (Why would they? Isn't it the most OBVIOUS question ever?)

Yet Megyn Kelly said Trump routinely got questions ahead of time when he was interviewed by someone on FOX (she didn't say who--it seemed like O'Reilly).

Trump twisted Brazile's unimportant "help" into "Hillary got the debate questions -- and answers!!!" 

He's just so stupid--and yet... he plays the media (and a large section of the public) so very, very well.

[abstractstuff]

Those who knew he would be elected are not at all surprised by the media bending over and spreading their cheeks wide open. 

[parisprincess]

Oh dear. If Trump and his goons are planning on "punishing" Hillary, she'd better have someone taste her food before she eats it. Or maybe she'll just suddenly disappear. Isn't that how dictators and dictator wannabes punish their enemies?

Edited January 2, 2017 by parisprincess

[BBDi]

Hillary will be OK.  She is very useful to him - he can constantly point out to his supporters how he saved us from "Crooked Hillary," he can keep threatening to prosecute her (something his supporters seem to crave), and he wouldn't, I think, want to turn her into a martyr and also have no one left to blame. 

[navelgazer]

26 minutes ago, parisprincess said:

Oh dear. If Drumpf and his goons are planning on "punishing" Hillary, she'd better have someone taste her food before she eats it. Or maybe she'll just suddenly disappear. Isn't that how dictators and dictator wannabes punish their enemies?

I don't know what about this scares me more, the fact that I believe it truly possible that Twitler will try just something like this in order to appease his base who he promised he would absolutely prosecute her if he were to be "elected" or that if he did something to her, he wouldn't even be investigated.  He would be able to disappear her and no one who cared would be allowed to speak.  If they did try to speak, they would be silenced with accusations of being a conspiracy theorist or an Alex Jones follower.    

[stormy]

To the trumpers who are so naive that they still believe he's bringing back their coal mining jobs, please, turn off FOX or wherever you get your news.

Today on CNN the story was from Western PA to talk to a retired coal miner with black lung disease and two widows whose husbands died from the disease.

They voted for trump because he said he'd bring back the coal jobs and are now worried about loosing the benefits they now receive, about $640/month, to black lung victims and their survivors, through Obamacare.

Well sorry but on January 3rd the republicans have already said they will begin dismantling Obamacare.  Happy New Year trumpers and I hope you get what you voted for.

[parisprincess]

stormy, unfortunately, the rest of us will also have to suffer for their stupidity. To quote Trump, "Unfair!"

[Duke Silver]

https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/815550391094022144

Primakov Lecture by Henry A. Kissinger at the Gorchakov Fund in Moscow

[possibilities]

This interview has some encouragement to keep working for what we want, with historical perspective near the end, which I very much appreciated: http://www.npr.org/2017/01/01/507799129/n-c-naacp-president-says-america-needs-to-continue-reviving-heartbeat

[backformore]

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

Sometimes instead of refuting their "facts" with real facts, I ask questions, like: "Really? Where did you hear that? I thought [this is how it works for real but said in a milder way]. " Then after they tell me where they got their "info" and how they came to their conclusions, I say something like: "Huh. That's so different than what I learned from [source of real information]." They may not get curious enough to check my sources, or they may say my sources are bad, but I just stay friendly as much as I can, like "Okay, I just never heard that before, and it's really surprising to me, because ____ " or "I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens" or some other sort of open-minded seeming thing

Hubby and I were at the grocery store the other day, standing in line, the lady in front of us was paying for her groceries.  She told the cashier she was sick and tired of "all this political correct crap"  and ranted about how she couldn't wait for Trump to be in office, because "nobody's going to tell me I can't say merry Christmas - I can't celebrate MY holiday, but they can celebrate theirs? it's ridiculous! "   Her groceries were bagged, she's standing there talking, so I interrupted - but just to mention to the cashier that we had been waiting.   On the way to the car, my husband said he was afraid that I was going to "get into it"  with the woman.  I just said, yeah, it wasn't worth the energy, and besides, he was with  me.   If I had been alone I would have stepped in and asked her under what circumstances had she ever been told that "merry Christmas"  wasn't allowed.    The idiocy astounds me, this woman probably had no clue about Trump's connections with the Russians, or any of the scandals, she was focused on the fact that he said that he was going to allow people to say merry Christmas again. 

And @needschocolate  - are we related?  because you described my dad.   He hasn't heard of ANY of the stuff I tell him, but he knows for a fact that "crooked Hillary was up to no good with those emails."  He also thinks I'm gullible in thinking that Trump is corrupt, he'll only listen to my Trump supporting brother, because, you know, penis!

[Spartan Girl]

8 hours ago, stormy said:

To the trumpers who are so naive that they still believe he's bringing back their coal mining jobs, please, turn off FOX or wherever you get your news.

Today on CNN the story was from Western PA to talk to a retired coal miner with black lung disease and two widows whose husbands died from the disease.

They voted for trump because he said he'd bring back the coal jobs and are now worried about loosing the benefits they now receive, about $640/month, to black lung victims and their survivors, through Obamacare.

Well sorry but on January 3rd the republicans have already said they will begin dismantling Obamacare.  Happy New Year trumpers and I hope you get what you voted for.

I saw that too. Ordinarily, I'd feel bad for their situation, but as they say, you reap what you sew.