Scientology: Miscavige and Sons

[Lizzing]

Shelly Miscavige might have been spotted alive in California: http://jezebel.com/report-shelly-miscavige-has-been-spotted-near-scientol-1790154755  Doesn't sound like she's in great shape though.

[Cranky One]

I knew $cienctolgy was crazy, but I had no clue HOW batshit crazy! That whole Sea Org crap and they even have a ship?!?

I'm finding this whole series absolutely fascinating!

FYI, Leah live tweets during it, so she's answering a lot of questions that may not be on the show.

https://twitter.com/LeahRemini

[jrlr]

6 minutes ago, Cranky One said:

I knew $cienctolgy was crazy, but I had no clue HOW batshit crazy! That whole Sea Org crap and they even have a ship?!?

I'm finding this whole series absolutely fascinating!

 

Agree!!!   What I'd really like to see as a result of this show is for the Notchurch of $$$ have its completely illegitimate church and tax-exempt status revoked.  I can't believe the IRS (who audited me a billion years ago when I was waitressing and made a hot $4500 one year!) has bent over for these litigious con artists.  Time for the IRS to grow some balls and get what's due from this greed-based cult. 

[Cranky One]

2 minutes ago, jrlr said:

Agree!!!   What I'd really like to see as a result of this show is for the Notchurch of $$$ have its completely illegitimate church and tax-exempt status revoked.  I can't believe the IRS (who audited me a billion years ago when I was waitressing and made a hot $4500 one year!) has bent over for these litigious con artists.  Time for the IRS to grow some balls and get what's due from this greed-based cult. 

Seriously! I know I read they harassed the IRS, but still. Crazy!

[Cranky One]

Interesting thing that Leah tweeted is that you were required to buy TWO E-meters!

[jrlr]

3 minutes ago, Cranky One said:

Seriously! I know I read they harassed the IRS, but still. Crazy!

I don't know if this is accurate, but I read that the cult filed over 1000 lawsuits against the IRS and individual agents, and the IRS promptly rolled over and granted them cult church status.  It makes my blood boil to think that I pay taxes and these charlatans don't, but it's the IRS who deserves the blame for that.  

Hey, here's an idea:   If everyone on this board sends $100 to my cat Blue Moon (care of me), in return for a picture of Moonie with a thought bubble that reads "Trust the Moon and You Will be Saved," can I get church status?  Now all we need is a sparky name for the organization.  Moonsavers? The Church of Blue?  

[fastiller]

25 minutes ago, jrlr said:

Hey, here's an idea:   If everyone on this board sends $100 to my cat Blue Moon (care of me), in return for a picture of Moonie with a thought bubble that reads "Trust the Moon and You Will be Saved," can I get church status?  Now all we need is a sparky name for the organization.  Moonsavers? The Church of Blue?  

The Moonies.  Oh wait, that's taken.

[jrlr]

3 minutes ago, fastiller said:

The Moonies.  Oh wait, that's taken.

Ha!  I forgot about them!

[Duke2801]

2 hours ago, Lizzing said:

The creators of autocorrect are clearly SPs, what with their trying to root out all mention of Dianetics!  Let's file a KR!  ;)

Yassssss.  Those damn reactive minds. To the Hole with them!

[beeziebee]

1 hour ago, jrlr said:

Hey, here's an idea:   If everyone on this board sends $100 to my cat Blue Moon (care of me), in return for a picture of Moonie with a thought bubble that reads "Trust the Moon and You Will be Saved," can I get church status?  Now all we need is a sparky name for the organization.  Moonsavers? The Church of Blue?  

Luna-tics?  

[shelley1234]

1 hour ago, jrlr said:

Agree!!!   What I'd really like to see as a result of this show is for the Notchurch of $$$ have its completely illegitimate church and tax-exempt status revoked.  I can't believe the IRS (who audited me a billion years ago when I was waitressing and made a hot $4500 one year!) has bent over for these litigious con artists.  Time for the IRS to grow some balls and get what's due from this greed-based cult. 

I do think a lot of churches who get tax exempt status have some pretty wacky rules and rituals....so in that respect, I am not sure Scientology is all that different.  

[jrlr]

2 hours ago, beeziebee said:

Luna-tics?  

I like it!

[MaggieG]

13 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Isn't he a nasty little shit?  His own father (who brought him into the cult) is dumbfounded over the creep's conduct.

I'm looking forward to next week's episode and hope Leah goes after Napoleon Jr. big time.  There are countless jaw-dropping stories about CO$, but one of them that sticks in my mind is that after Tommy's over-the-top dream wedding to Katie-bot, Davy accompanied them on their honeymoon.

Say WHAT?

Seriously!!? The more I find out about this stuff, the crazier it gets. Good for Katie she got herself and Suri out.

I could never be a Scientologist. My husband and I are on a fixed income and while I love to read, I am not a fan of science fiction so LRH books would bore me to death.

[zxy556575]

12 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I could never be a Scientologist. My husband and I are on a fixed income and while I love to read, I am not a fan of science fiction so LRH books would bore me to death.

Oh! When Leah said members have to read all Hubbard's work, I assumed she meant his Dianetics-related stuff. If they also have to read his fiction? Haha!

The paperback editions of his scifi books are mostly $22.95 on Amazon. Dianetics is $40 in hardcover.

[MaggieG]

15 minutes ago, lordonia said:

Oh! When Leah said members have to read all Hubbard's work, I assumed she meant his Dianetics-related stuff. If they also have to read his fiction? Haha!

The paperback editions of his scifi books are mostly $22.95 on Amazon. Dianetics is $40 in hardcover.

I know right! Haha indeed. I could be wrong but it looked like some of his fiction books were on her shelf, that's why I thought they had to read it all. It wouldn't surprise me

[spiderpig]

27 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I know right! Haha indeed. I could be wrong but it looked like some of his fiction books were on her shelf, that's why I thought they had to read it all. It wouldn't surprise me

L Ron was gross, and the older he got the worse he became. He treated his wives abominably.  His third wife did prison time as the fall-guy for his scams.  His son denounced him as a fraud.  The more you read, the lower your jaw drops.

[WInterfalls]

23 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

At what level do you have to be before the let you read the Sooper Seekrit Creation theory?  I cannot believe that everyone isn't like Paul Haggis who, after attaining the level and reading Hubbards' "XENU and the Planet of Exploding Volcanoes" Amazing Story, was worried that if you came away believing that balderdash, the Church would declare you insane and kick you out.  

So if I recall, both Travolta and Cruise have reached the level where they have gotten the XENU notes.  And they're still there.  No wonder Cruise comes off like a demented gnome in some of those off-the cuff interviews.  In a couple of cases, it's almost like he's having a conversation with himself.  Travolta, though, doesn't seem as hard-core from the interviews I've seen.  

That is OT III I believe. By the time a public Scientologist finds that stuff out they've spent at $100k. Makes them less likely a just say f this if they have spent that kind of money getting there. 

[Brattinella]

8 hours ago, lordonia said:

The paperback editions of his scifi books are mostly $22.95 on Amazon. Dianetics is $40 in hardcover.

WHAA???  These books used to  be 25 cents in the used book stores!

[Cranky One]

21 hours ago, jrlr said:

I don't know if this is accurate, but I read that the cult filed over 1000 lawsuits against the IRS and individual agents, and the IRS promptly rolled over and granted them cult church status.  It makes my blood boil to think that I pay taxes and these charlatans don't, but it's the IRS who deserves the blame for that.  

Hey, here's an idea:   If everyone on this board sends $100 to my cat Blue Moon (care of me), in return for a picture of Moonie with a thought bubble that reads "Trust the Moon and You Will be Saved," can I get church status?  Now all we need is a sparky name for the organization.  Moonsavers? The Church of Blue?  

Yes, you are correct. I just watched Going Clear. Holy cow! I can't believe the IRS caved.

You probably could get church status. I lived in Tucson for a year and some the guy down the street started his own 'church'. My neighbor across the street was the 'assistant pastor' and church would be at their house some times. Um, yeah. I don't know if they had exempt status and it was a long time ago, so who knows where they are now. However, I was friendly with his wife and they never tried to get us to join. I can't remember if her husband had another job or not and she didn't work, so maybe they lived off 'donations'.

[Almost 3000]

10 hours ago, Brattinella said:

WHAA???  These books used to  be 25 cents in the used book stores!

That price is probably for new books on Amazon or B&N. The used ones are about a penny with some as high as $5. LRH's used SciFi may have gone a bit due to the renewed COS interest because his used books could usually be found for a penny + 3.99 shipping on Amazon. COS sends sets of their books to libraries every couple of years. They always end up in our Friends bookstore and sell for a dollar and if they sit for to long they end up on the 10c cart.

[zxy556575]

I'm sorry to repeat for those who may already know, but I was curious what happened to Hubbard's estate.

I sure found a lot theories! There are claims that Miscavage and others were responsible for his death due to deliberate neglect. Hubbard was also given the psychiatric drug Vistaril and he changed his will the day before he died in favor of his Scientology Trust. He had specifically disinherited his son L. Ron Jr., who had left Scientology, and his daughter Alexis who was the product of his second, bigamous marriage.

Here's one site that summarizes the conspiracies around the death, and another from a site run by ex Scientologists. He had chronic pancreatitis, which is frequently caused by alcoholism.

The man was batshit crazy, right?

Edited December 18, 2016 by lordonia

[Wings]

I just ordered Jenna's book.  thanks

[juliet73]

I just finished Leah's book.  It was an easy read and totally worth checking out. 

[Sew Sumi]

4 hours ago, wings707 said:

I just ordered Jenna's book.  thanks

I'm about a third of the way through Jenna's book, and it's a tougher read than Leah's. She goes into excruciating detail about procedures and her reactions to them; heck, when I left off, she was still only 11 years old. Leah also lived and worked amongst the wogs, and didn't push her religion on her co-workers (that she talked about). Kevin James remains one of her best friends. Being in from birth, Jenna's story is just that much more scary for me; I can't wait to see how she ultimately makes her escape (I know nothing of her, other than her blood tie to the Little Admiral) since I have no clue where she will go, because who does she know on the Outside other than her CO$ relatives who didn't join the SeaOrg? But they're still "in" like Leah was. Maybe Grandma tells them all to take a hike??? :D

Edited December 17, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[Kostgard]

There's a podcast called "Oh No Ross and Carrie" where the hosts try out "alternative" medical practices and religions and report back on it in their podcast. Earlier this year they joined Scientology and did a multi-part series on their experience (weird shit happens, we get confirmation of how they screw you over with the courses, they were totally spied on with hidden cameras and then Scientology gave them the boot when they discovered they were just there for their podcast). 

They didn't start on The Bridge (they got the boot before they got that far), but they confirm Leah's tale about having to totally redo courses and/or they pull out "new" information that leads to more classes (i.e., more money). For example, Ross took a class that taught him X, then was encouraged to take another class where he was told that X was a lie and Y is the real truth. He just wasn't ready for it yet (sooooo, they lie to him instead of just introducing Y later?!), oh, and you totally need more classes to get to the real truth.

Then last week Ross and Carrie posted their interview with ex-Scientologist Chris Shelton, which was really interesting because he has A LOT of insider info and spills all the T. It was recorded before this show premiered, so unfortunately they don't him ask about it, but I highly recommend taking a listen to both this interview and the episodes covering their experience (which may discourage anyone here from trying it).

Also, according to Chris Shelton, it's actually "Xemu." Huh. He also had some sad/interesting info on Marty Rathburn.

This episode was a tough one. I feel so sorry for Mary and her family. I believe Rinder's reaction was real. There was a shot of him before everyone broke down where you could tell that Mary's story was hitting him right in the gut. I think his hard exterior may be a defense mechanism. Leah is the opposite - she's someone who lives with the dial set to 11 and she lets you know every emotion she's feeling while she's feeling it.

I'm glad Leah went over the insanity of the bridge, and how they keep going back and changing the texts and making people take classes over again. I remember when the Tom/Katie stuff first hit someone leaked a video of an event hosted by Miscavige where he talked about how hey discovered a typo or something in a set of texts, corrected them, and it CHANGES EVERYTHING. So guess what? Everyone gets to buy the same books again for the low, low price of $500!

My question here is when do people's BS detector go off? When do they look around and go, "I'm OT VI now. I'm supposed to be able to move objects with my mind. Why can't I do that?" Or "This is the third time they made me retake a class because they changed/corrected stuff. Damn! Get your shit together, Scientology!" Jason Beghe said his wake up call was a car accident - he was "Clear" and Clears don't get into car accidents because they can [supposedly] anticipate the actions of others and he should have seen the other car coming in time to avoid it. But...seriously? It took a car accident for him to really see that he didn't actually have superpowers?

This is what I really don't get. I get people getting sucked in if it were just self-help and save the world stuff. But people are promised honest-to-god superpowers and they never actually get them. Tom Cruise believes he has superpowers though he clearly does not. Why doesn't this set off bullshit alarms?

Edited December 18, 2016 by Kostgard

[cynicat]

19 hours ago, lordonia said:

The man was batshit crazy, right?

Without an ounce of doubt.

[SunnyBeBe]

I admit that when Leah first started with her claims about Scientology, I thought that maybe she needed to just let it alone, BUT after seeing this series, I get it.  She's right to go forth with this.  The truth needs to be broadcast.  These people should be sharing their experiences. They sure seem genuine and sincere to me.  Leah is very brave.  I'd be scare for my safety. 

It seems like this is a money making scheme.  Apparently, that's really the only motive.  Greed makes people do weird things.  So, who's getting the money at the top?  This prophet like guy?

I have some questions about how unemployed people pay the $100,000.00 that is required from each member. Unless, you are a celeb, then, how can you buy all those publications, attend 5 hours of classes every day of the week and not have a job?  You can't get loans if you aren't employed. I'm just curious as to how that works.  The church can only employ so many people.  Is this only for wealthy people who have trust funds?

I would think that some of the famous Scientology members are feeling rather foolish about now.  I mean, to think that they are bullied and their lives dictated by this church.  I wonder what they are saying about it.  I bet they are embarrassed.  It's past the point of denying it now.  Well, in my mind.  I'm just trying to wrap my brain around how these big shots celebs live under the rule of such an organization. It must be very stressful and lonely. 

Edited December 18, 2016 by SunnyBeBe

[jrlr]

On 12/17/2016 at 5:47 AM, Cranky One said:

Yes, you are correct. I just watched Going Clear. Holy cow! I can't believe the IRS caved.

You probably could get church status. I lived in Tucson for a year and some the guy down the street started his own 'church'. My neighbor across the street was the 'assistant pastor' and church would be at their house some times. Um, yeah. I don't know if they had exempt status and it was a long time ago, so who knows where they are now. However, I was friendly with his wife and they never tried to get us to join. I can't remember if her husband had another job or not and she didn't work, so maybe they lived off 'donations'.

I'm sure you're right, because in yesterday's paper I saw a story about a man who leads some kind of "church" that requires him to wear goat horns on his head (don't ask - I have no idea!).  And the courts just ruled in his favor - I think he can wear them on flights now.  Rolling my eyes and SMH here - whatever happened to common sense?  Or dignity?  

I guess I'm very old-fashioned, but even though I'm a complete non-believer, I understand why people tithe to support their churches, but this is different - CO$ seems like a long con, a very extensive, long-term money grab from people who are willing to pay anything for, what?  Salvation?  Going to another planet?  There HAS to be brainwashing involved, even though nothing like the traditional cult brainwashing methods (food and sleep deprivation, etc.) has been shown so far on this program.  

[Zanne]

Of the many things I do not understand about Scientology, here's one question I have. Even in Leah's talking heads when she was a young Scientologist, she's mentioned it - how the Church of Scientology is doing good works and helping the planet. How? How much do they actually donate to a charity that's not owned by them? I heard about the 9/11-Tom Cruise thing, but that didn't seem particularly helpful. What are they doing that's making the world a better place? They claim these things, but I never hear an actual answer. Or do they consider people achieving - what is it called? - OT VIIIIIIIIIIII and turning into immortal alien beings with superpowers being helpful?

[zxy556575]

They have what they call "social betterment" programs:

The Way to Happiness
Applied Scholastics
Criminon
Narconon
The Truth About Drugs
United for Human Rights
Citizens Commission for Human Rights (CCHR)

The above groups are examined in more detail by The Scientology Money Project and of course good old Tony Ortega has his take.

[bethster2000]

On 12/14/2016 at 8:43 AM, MaggieG said:

what is the deal with Shelly Miscavige?

I think she's dead.

[greekmom]

I would love to know what would happen if and when David Miscavige dies. Would someone else take his place in the CO$ or would they just go to pieces and that would be the end of it all?

[Brattinella]

No, Tommy-boy will step up and take it.  Then God Help Them.

[mbaywife123]

26 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

No, Tommy-boy will step up and take it.  Then God Help Them.

GOD won't be able to help "them" remember he is a psych implant and cannot be believed in.

I think if Tommy takes over it will be more like a Mission Impossible production and how the great Cruise saves his people.

[larapu2000]

I have a question.  I feel like in the first few episodes, there were several references made by former members to Christmas.  Do some or all Scientologists still celebrate Christmas?  

[zxy556575]

7 hours ago, larapu2000 said:

I have a question. I feel like in the first few episodes, there were several references made by former members to Christmas. Do some or all Scientologists still celebrate Christmas?  

You made me curious! I don't like giving them clicks, but their official site claims it varies:

"Observances of the holidays are as diverse as Scientologists are. Because the Scientology religion is practiced in 165 countries and territories, Scientologists come from a wide variety of faiths and cultural traditions. But no matter what their background, they, like most people, gather with loved ones to enjoy the warmth of friends and family and celebrate the joy of the season."

"Scientologists celebrate several major holidays annually. These include the birthday of L. Ron Hubbard (March 13); the date marking the initial publication of Dianetics (May 9); the anniversary of the maiden voyage of the Freewinds and what that vessel represents in the development of advanced spiritual levels of enlightenment in Scientology (June 6); Auditor’s Day, in honor of all auditors (second Sunday in September); the anniversary of the founding of the International Association of Scientologists, which unites, supports and protects the Scientology religion and Scientologists throughout the world (October 7); and New Year’s Eve (December 31)."

Edited December 20, 2016 by lordonia

[TaraS1]

Auditor's Day?!  "Auditor's Day is the day we celebrate those dedicated individuals who get the rest of our members to spill all their deepest, darkest secrets so we can secretly record them and use it against them if they step out of line or try to leave!  Huzzah!"

[spiderpig]

^^lordonia, you made my head hurt.

"Observances of the holidays are as diverse as Scientologists are. Because the Scientology religion is practiced in 165 countries and territories, Scientologists come from a wide variety of faiths and cultural traditions. But no matter what their background, they, like most people, gather with loved ones to enjoy the warmth of friends and family and celebrate the joy of the season."

Meanwhile they persecute , prosecute, imprison, financialy exploit, and physically abuse their own "parishioners".

YAY, Xenu!!!

[Wings]

As I understand it and correct me if I am wrong. I have been reading a lot and there is much that is not clearly defined. COS is not a religion.  It is a way of life/philosophy

 Calling themselves a church is all about wanting to be and finally getting tax exemption. 

[Brattinella]

What a joyless bunch.  Holidays, my butt.

[WescottF1]

38 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

What a joyless bunch.  Holidays, my butt.

In Ron's book he talked about how they used to do some cool and fun things at Christmas but as soon as his demon spawn usurped command, all of that ended.

[green]

2 hours ago, lordonia said:

You made me curious! I don't like giving them clicks, but their official site claims it varies:

"Observances of the holidays are as diverse as Scientologists are. Because the Scientology religion is practiced in 165 countries and territories, Scientologists come from a wide variety of faiths and cultural traditions. But no matter what their background, they, like most people, gather with loved ones to enjoy the warmth of friends and family and celebrate the joy of the season."

"Scientologists celebrate several major holidays annually. These include the birthday of L. Ron Hubbard (March 13); the date marking the initial publication of Dianetics (May 9); the anniversary of the maiden voyage of the Freewinds and what that vessel represents in the development of advanced spiritual levels of enlightenment in Scientology (June 6); Auditor’s Day, in honor of all auditors (second Sunday in September); the anniversary of the founding of the International Association of Scientologists, which unites, supports and protects the Scientology religion and Scientologists throughout the world (October 7); and New Year’s Eve (December 31)."

LOL!  The only holiday they share in common with the rest of humanity is New Year's Eve?  Thanks for the list.  I will have to circle June 6th not to remember D-Day in the future but for the first sailing of the good ship Freewinds.

[juliet73]

11 hours ago, larapu2000 said:

I have a question.  I feel like in the first few episodes, there were several references made by former members to Christmas.  Do some or all Scientologists still celebrate Christmas?  

I'm know very little about Scientology - everything I've learned is from Google, Leah's book/A&E show and Tony Ortega's website.  It seems like the "public" Scientologists celebrate Christmas, but I'm assuming the commercialism and materialism of it, not the true meaning of Christmas.

[Whimsy]

I'm trying to read Jenna's book (over 100 pages in and she's only 9), and she just did mention celebrating Christmas. 

I just got back from NYC. As I was crossing the street in Times Square, I looked to my left and saw a sign for Scientology. I wanted to take a picture to share with you guys, but it's Christmas time in the city and I was stuck in a wave of bodies and couldn't stop. 

[Zanne]

I just received another Previous Resident mailing about becoming an auditor. I scanned the back (usually I just toss it in the trash), and was amused to see some of the requirements for being a top notch auditor - letter writing, ethics, estates, public relations, promotion & marketing, and bookselling.

[Arynm]

52 minutes ago, Zanne said:

I just received another Previous Resident mailing about becoming an auditor. I scanned the back (usually I just toss it in the trash), and was amused to see some of the requirements for being a top notch auditor - letter writing, ethics, estates, public relations, promotion & marketing, and bookselling.

Ok, so Letter writing: to tattle on all your scientology friends

ethics: nope, nothing here except hubris

estates: only to take them after the people die

public relations: they really need the help here

promotion and marketing: they think they have this in the bag, but it smells like day old fish to me

bookselling: makes me laugh, I'm sure Tom Cruise is buying 90% of the books they "sell"

I think this is an absurd list and is pure nonsense. I sure am glad the scientologists don't know who I am

[Guest]

I fell asleep last night while watching Going Clear.  If you ever want to have a night of weird dreams, it seems falling asleep to that documentary will do the trick.

I do wonder if LRH really believed the stuff or if he just wanted to make money. 

[Chaos Theory]

I  am not a documentary person but I am curious.  Did LRH actually intend to build a religion/cult or did it just "happen" around him?  

I joke a lot about wanting to start my own cult. The tax breaks alone.....maybe I should start watching.  You know get some pointers.

Anyone wanna join my Cult?  

Edited December 21, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[califred]

I was under the impression it was started on a date/as a joke but I'm not certain.i doubt he believes a word.

[Ruprecht]

This is only based on my experience watching "Going Clear", but I got the impression that LRH may have been spiraling into mental illness and that his writings could have been a way for him to get a grasp on it.