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SilverStormm

Scientology: Miscavige and Sons

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I guess I'll kick off this topic. 

Due to the comments in the episode thread about Leah's book, I decided to get it from my library (e-book) because I was very curious about Scientology itself.  

I am just barely into the book, but I am just dumbstruck about how many just off-the-wall weird things that go on in this "religion" and no one bats an eye.  If I were being recruited into this and heard the term "Sea Org" and "clearing the earth" and "wog" I would've been out in an instant.  I'm also offended, in a way, that L. Ron Hubbard took so much from the Navy and then twisted it all around to suite his own weird, twisted ways.  I am a Coast Guard veteran.  Maybe I should take some stuff from the CG, twist it around and make it my own religion...

*Disclaimer- I am an atheist and anti-organized religion.  I just don't "get" it.  I am ok with others having these beliefs and stuff- whatever gets people through their lives- but I don't.

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I'm one of those absolutely fascinated by how people are so gullible in their search for self-worth that they fall for spiritual con artists.  And of course they can achieve enlightenment for cash.

Other "religions" are big into the cash angle, but CO$ brainwashes their victims to the extent that they commit themselves and their families to what amounts to slave labor in many cases.  I can't understand how they exploit minors (Sea Org) and get away with it. 

CO$ leeches every dime they can out of their "parishioners" while promising answers which can be achieved only at the next level, i.e. price point.

Keep reading, GenL.  It's like a sci-fi novel that L Ron only wished he could write on his own. (Well, maybe ultimately he did.)

Check out Tony Ortega's site (he covered the CO$ for the Village Voice for years): http://tonyortega.org

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I was interested enough to request library loans for Inside Scientology: The Story of America's Most Secretive Religion and Scientology: A to Xenu: An Insider's Guide to What Scientology is Really All About. We'll see if they go into any detail about actual beliefs and teachings.

Tony Ortega's site has an article that describes what happens during an auditing session:

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Isn't the auditing session basically a lie detector test?  Honestly, this sounds like torture to me.  I've been reading more and they just seem to adopt the tactic that the worst police detectives seem to have- where they just wear a person so far down that they'll admit to murder even if they haven't done it.  Doesn't sound enlightening to me. 

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3 minutes ago, GenL said:

Isn't the auditing session basically a lie detector test?  Honestly, this sounds like torture to me.  I've been reading more and they just seem to adopt the tactic that the worst police detectives seem to have- where they just wear a person so far down that they'll admit to murder even if they haven't done it.  Doesn't sound enlightening to me. 

I read that they have to buy their own e-meters at a cost of $4000.  (Original cost wasn't that high until Ron or Dave decided to cash in by making all the faithful upgrade.)

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On 12/7/2016 at 9:12 AM, spiderpig said:

 

Other "religions" are big into the cash angle, but CO$ brainwashes their victims to the extent that they commit themselves and their families to what amounts to slave labor in many cases.  I can't understand how they exploit minors (Sea Org) and get away with it. 

CO$ leeches every dime they can out of their "parishioners" while promising answers which can be achieved only at the next level, i.e. price point.

And while LR says that CO$ portrays itself as saving the planet, I never hear of any CO$-related organization doing good works.  Whatever your thoughts are on organized religion (not @spiderpig's thoughts; the global "you") there are religious based groups such as Catholic Charities and Catholic Relief Services and The Salvation Army, neither of which requires you be a Catholic (practicing or not) to avail yourself of their services.

On 12/7/2016 at 3:11 PM, GenL said:

Isn't the auditing session basically a lie detector test?  Honestly, this sounds like torture to me.  I've been reading more and they just seem to adopt the tactic that the worst police detectives seem to have- where they just wear a person so far down that they'll admit to murder even if they haven't done it.  Doesn't sound enlightening to me. 

I thought it was more like a bio-feedback machine.  But, as I think of this, isn't a lie detector just a form of a bio-feedback machine?

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1 hour ago, fastiller said:

And while LR says that CO$ portrays itself as saving the planet, I never hear of any CO$-related organization doing good works.  Whatever your thoughts are on organized religion (not @spiderpig's thoughts; the global "you") there are religious based groups such as Catholic Charities and Catholic Relief Services and The Salvation Army, neither of which requires you be a Catholic (practicing or not) to avail yourself of their services.

I always feel I have to put "Church" in quotes when the term is used anywhere near Scientology.  Many religion-affiliated groups do wonderful work with the underprivileged, people needing comfort and solace, and support valid social issues.  It's offensive that CO$ is allowed to be included with other churches (no quotes).

The only thing Davy's crew has done that appears to be a social service is Narcanon, which purports to get people off drugs, but is really a recruiting tool.

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Miscavige just looks like a little creep to me.  And is it just me, or is every $cientology event or production just embarrassing?  Kind of like the pseudo-naval uniforms.  It's all just so cringeworthy.

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There was also that thing where they did their pseudoscience detox program on September 11 first responders. That was supposedly "saving the world".

In Andrew Morton's biography of Tom Cruise, he ties Cruise's awakening as a crazy Scientologist to his desire to save the world after September 11. Lotta good they did there though. 

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26 minutes ago, bethster2000 said:

Miscavige just looks like a little creep to me.  And is it just me, or is every $cientology event or production just embarrassing?  Kind of like the pseudo-naval uniforms.  It's all just so cringeworthy.

Have you read about Sea Orgs required to salute Davy's dogs when they're out for a walk?

(Actually, I'm surprised Miscavige is human enough to have pets.  Maybe he's training them to sniff out SPs.)

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One of my biggest questions is that the "church" founder LRH believed in reincarnation of sorts and living many lives so why has the man who has been dead for 30 years not returned yet and taken back the helm of his "church"

Maybe their current and ex- parishioners need to start attacking (Fair Game) Miscavige as an SP who is blocking LRH's return because Miscavige is a money grubbing sadist.

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[Moved over from episode thread.]

9 hours ago, Pollock said:

There is a lot of speculations about what really happened and why Rathbun caved like that after years of fight. Worse, he seems to have turned his back on people who fought with him like Ortega or Rinder.

I looked at Rathbun's blog for the first time recently and he did seem a bit unhinged. I didn't read a lot but one recent post was devoted to bitter criticism of people he calls the "Anti Scientology Cult," including Ortega. According to Rathbun, people who speak out against Scientology have devolved from "a blame-filled pity party into a hate-driven trolling fest."

It's unfathomable what effect decades of mind control have on people and I'm in no way trying to minimize their emotional torment, but it is interesting to me that both Rathbun and Rinder have come out of this with such strong self-regard/egos.

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On 12/7/2016 at 8:31 AM, GenL said:

I am just barely into the book, but I am just dumbstruck about how many just off-the-wall weird things that go on in this "religion" and no one bats an eye.  If I were being recruited into this and heard the term "Sea Org" and "clearing the earth" and "wog" I would've been out in an instant.  I'm also offended, in a way, that L. Ron Hubbard took so much from the Navy and then twisted it all around to suite his own weird, twisted ways.  I am a Coast Guard veteran.  Maybe I should take some stuff from the CG, twist it around and make it my own religion...

I watched the documentary "Going Clear" and I'm going to binge-watch this A&E series, I'd forgotten it started. 

I get why people might want to join a "religion" like Scientology.  Most people are social beings, most people like the idea of belonging to something bigger than themselves, that's why people join gangs and organizations and clubs, social media, message boards.  Human beings aren't solitary creatures. 

BUT, the thing about Scientology, is that they sell the idea that "we're spiritual beings," okay, fine.  But once they start doing shit that's against the law like signing a billion year contract, now that's just nuts to me.  There are some Christian religions where, if a person leaves or is dis-fellowship ed, and their family is still in the religion, the family can't have contact with them because they're "unclean" or some shit like that but most of the time it's not enforced anymore. COS goes WAY too far with their shit.  They get people who want to be part of something, tell them we'll take care of you, and then you become like someone in prison, get so used to the institution life that the thought of living outside the institution is terrifying.

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On 12/7/2016 at 3:23 PM, spiderpig said:

I read that they have to buy their own e-meters at a cost of $4000.  (Original cost wasn't that high until Ron or Dave decided to cash in by making all the faithful upgrade.)

 

On 12/9/2016 at 3:46 PM, fastiller said:

...

I thought it was more like a bio-feedback machine.  But, as I think of this, isn't a lie detector just a form of a bio-feedback machine?

Too funny (and sad).  Some years ago I worked a summer job at a meter place that supplied meters (gauges) to Ford Motor Company. 

Some time later I heard they lost the contract to a plant in Mexico.  They ended up surviving because they landed the contract to become the official builder of e-meters for Scientology. 

I didn't know that and some years later when looking for work as a tech I applied at the company where I learned all that.  Got a whole tour of the place which is pretty tiny.  There were about 200 employees back the summer I was there when they had the Ford contract.  They looked to have less than 50 maybe back when I went there so the tour wasn't too long, heh. 

I did see the people assembling the stuff though.  It's the same old cheap single fiberglass board with the same old types of resistors and capacitors and crap you could buy at an old Radio Shack store back in the day and would see on any simple meter.  It's a cheapy version of a volt meter is my guess from what I saw.  All it measures is the voltage across a resistance a small current encounters between the power source and ground.  The two "cans" they hold are positive and ground in other words and the resistor is your body.  If you sweat or grip the device harder or what not the needle will move a little since it would be set to millivolts or even micro volts or less.  The auditor will tell the person anything they want to tell them.  Nothing is really happening.

Like everything else about this group it is just bunk.

BTW I never got a callback about that job which I was actually glad about.  I didn't want to help this group and would have refused anyway.  And the older woman (the floor supervisor) that gave me the tour gave me the creeps.  She took all this stuff so seriously.   I wonder now if she had been sent there by the group to assure "quality control" or something as part of some clause in the contract.

Anyway I don't honestly know if they still have that contract or not.  Been about a decade or more ago now.  But the company was Beede Electric in Penacook, NH for the record.

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12 hours ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

I never "got" any religion, be it Scientology, xtianity, muslim, what have you. To me, it's all just the same shit, different imaginary friend. Mostly, it appears to be a shield to hide behind after the hand, now hidden, has thrown the rock. But to some, religion genuinely seems to be a source of comfort. I do see people who DO do good things on behalf of their chosen faith. I don't understand, though, why one would elect to be abused at the hands of some twerp who is also taking your money and alienating you from love. I guess I've always been far too lazy to join a cult, but even if I wasn't, I'd think that my own instinct to survive would motivate me up and out? I don't know, I just don't understand it at all. Viva la lazy cynics I guess.

Religion is also (and in some cases more) about being a "part of something."  When my friend and her husband moved to a new town, they joined a church, to meet people.  I think that's why most people join churches really, to socialize.  In some towns, you either go to a church or the club and if you don't drink or do drugs, the club could be a problem.

BUT, when you start messing with my $$$, then we have an issue.  And that's what I don't get about Scientology, YOU have to PAY for courses to gain more knowledge and enlightenment?  I don't think so.

Edited by Neurochick
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Ok, so I have always heard about Scientology but I never really knew a whole lot about it. I recently watched Going Clear and my husband and I started watching this show. I have put Leah's book on my to read list.

So I'm wondering, what is the deal with Shelly Miscavige? Leah mentioned her in the first episode when she was talking about the TomKat wedding but she wasn't mentioned after that. She wasn't talked about in Going Clear but I have read some comments on these boards about her possibly being dead?! For some reason, this is intriguing me more then anything. (I haven't watched episode 3 yet, so not sure if she is mentioned there)

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10 hours ago, green said:

 

Too funny (and sad).  Some years ago I worked a summer job at a meter place that supplied meters (gauges) to Ford Motor Company. 

Some time later I heard they lost the contract to a plant in Mexico.  They ended up surviving because they landed the contract to become the official builder of e-meters for Scientology. 

<snip>

Anyway I don't honestly know if they still have that contract or not.  Been about a decade or more ago now.  But the company was Beede Electric in Penacook, NH for the record.

Too funny indeed! I wonder if the e-meters were stamped with the LRH/Co$ seal of approval.

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Religion is also (and in some cases more) about being a "part of something."  When my friend and her husband moved to a new town, they joined a church, to meet people.  I think that's why most people join churches really, to socialize.  In some towns, you either go to a church or the club and if you don't drink or do drugs, the club could be a problem.

BUT, when you start messing with my $$$, then we have an issue.  And that's what I don't get about Scientology, YOU have to PAY for courses to gain more knowledge and enlightenment?  I don't think so.

Yes - religion is often about community.  And most religions do ask for donations, but they don't make them mandatory.

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5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Religion is also (and in some cases more) about being a "part of something."  When my friend and her husband moved to a new town, they joined a church, to meet people.  I think that's why most people join churches really, to socialize.  In some towns, you either go to a church or the club and if you don't drink or do drugs, the club could be a problem.

BUT, when you start messing with my $$$, then we have an issue.  And that's what I don't get about Scientology, YOU have to PAY for courses to gain more knowledge and enlightenment?  I don't think so.

The difference between a religion and a cult to me is that a religion lets you leave....and come back.  I am a lapsed catholic (the fact that there is even a term for it says something to me as well) and I haven't been to church in years but since I will be at my sisters place this Christmas and the family plans to go to Christmas Mass my mother is planning to "kidnap"  me.    Also real religions let "non members" in.  My uncle for years went to Catholic mass because my Aunt wanted to raise their kids catholic.  She was catholic he wasn't.  There were certain ceremonies he couldn't  participate in but it wasn't like he was banned outright or had to pay to enter.  

Scientology seems way too much cultish because they won't let you leave and if they do they make you cut your ties to the people still in there.  I still remember the bullshit when Tom Cruise was married to  Nichole Kidman.  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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52 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

Right, sort of the reason I never got sororities either. I just don't understand the need to "join". The "just add water for instant social life" concept eludes me. I sometimes wish I were more like that. It would be so much easier to just rely on some unseen force to give a purpose to everything, and also to be around like-minded people who believe the same. You have a common denominator automatically. It's much harder to seek friendships and make connections on your own, and to have to accept life on life's terms rather than "there's a reason for everything" thought process.

I think it's about community.  People have always wanted to be part of a community from the beginning of time.  The problem with organizations like Scientology is it's all or nothing, you either believe in everything or you're a "heathen" or whatever they call it.  And if you're Catholic and don't want to go to church or anything, that's fine; no one's going to call you a SP. 

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I get the allure of cults.  As someone who was never very good with people to have Instafriends would probably be very alluring and something I would do a lot to keep no matter how fake the friendship actually was.  Then again I have an addictive personality and my likes/dislikes run hot and cold so who knows if I am the type.  A cult is like any other drug,  You can never really tell if it will fill something inside of you you didn't know was missing and once it does it's difficult to give it up without help. 

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Something else I learned while reading about Scientology these past couple of weeks is that they run their own schools, which I guess is expected. But they also provide Hubbard's "study tech" materials to an unknown number of public and charter schools. SMH.

It's interesting that Sea Org members are actively discouraged* from having children, especially considering how low Scientology membership has dwindled.

Here's paranoia for you -- I've been avoiding official Scientology sites as I browse (I almost said "cruise") around online but the couple of times I did want to read something from them, I enabled my VPN software. As if they don't track personal IPs!

 

 

 

* Including forced abortions.

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3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

The difference between a religion and a cult to me is that a religion lets you leave....and come back.  I am a lapsed catholic (the fact that there is even a term for it says something to me as well) and I haven't been to church in years but since I will be at my sisters place this Christmas and the family plans to go to Christmas Mass my mother is planning to "kidnap"  me.    Also real religions let "non members" in.  My uncle for years went to Catholic mass because my Aunt wanted to raise their kids catholic.  She was catholic he wasn't.  There were certain ceremonies he could participate in but it wasn't like he was banned outright or had to pay to enter.  

Scientology seems way too much cultish because they won't let you leave and if they do they make you cut your ties to the people still in there.  I still remember the bullshit when Tom Cruise was married to  Nichole Kidman.  

Yes, I agree with your definition of religions and cults.  I don't understand how Scientology is given tax free status (I mean, I've read about Operation Snow White) as an organized "religion," but does not practice the tenets of religious freedom themselves, via their disconnection policies and practices.  How does this pass muster?  How have local law enforcement and the FBI been able to not do anything about this?  Is it so difficult to find something about Scientology that doesn't jive with other religions that can be used to tax them?  Even the Catholic Church, with the deepest pockets of them all, couldn't secret away their abuses once they were exposed.  

Churches of all religions are meant to be havens of safety, for both believers and non-believers.  Scientology sounds like the pits of hell.

I literally just want to give all of my money to organizations that help get people out of this cult.  All.of.it.

Edited by larapu2000
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If I remember correctly the only reason they are tax free is because of the 1000 lawsuits and harassment of the IRS.  The IRS asked if they'd drop the lawsuits if they gave them tax exemption.  Either David or someone else told them yes so, as soon as they got their exemption, all the lawsuits were dropped.  I wan to say it was talked about in Going Clear but it could have been an article I read too.

Basically the IRS just caved.

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The Church of Scientology in Atlanta is 1.2 miles away from me (not far from a Waffle House) and I would be willing to try to get audited For the Cause. I think I did it once in college for a free tshirt or hacky sack or something.

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The Church of Scientology in Atlanta is 1.2 miles away from me (not far from a Waffle House) and I would be willing to try to get audited For the Cause. I think I did it once in college for a free tshirt or hacky sack or something.

^^Oh do!  Please be sure to let it drop about your huge inheritance from your Dear Aunt Matilda.

Edited by spiderpig
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2 minutes ago, justjen said:

The Church of Scientology in Atlanta is 1.2 miles away from me (not far from a Waffle House) and I would be willing to try to get audited For the Cause. I think I did it once in college for a free tshirt or hacky sack or something.

Whatever you do don't give them your real address or phone number or they will never stop hounding you.  Remini talked about in her book about people having to shut down their mailboxes because they got a never ending string of junk mail from CO$. 

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If you want to avoid giving your info to Scientology, there are people who practice it outside the church; they believe in the principles but not in the church leadership or policies.

This page from Independent Scientology has links to lists of auditors you can contact. Individual practitioners set their own fees but are supposedly "affordable." I'm tempted myself!

Edited by lordonia
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8 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

The Church of Scientology in Atlanta is 1.2 miles away from me (not far from a Waffle House) and I would be willing to try to get audited For the Cause. I think I did it once in college for a free tshirt or hacky sack or something.

^^Oh do!  Please be sure to let it drop about your inheritance from your Dear Aunt Matilda.

 "I won Powerball"  would be effective, as well. 

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22 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

Catholics do indeed excommunicate their members for equally silly "offenses". My mother-in-law was a staunch Catholic. Her ex husband was an alcoholic and a chronic womanizer. He left her for another woman and filed for divorce. Once she was divorced, her church told her she could no longer call herself a Catholic because of that divorce, but that her children could have a Catholic education (we'll take your money, but you're immoral-and give us your children please, thanks). Her heart was broken twice, and by the very people she turned to for faith.

That's true, but from what I've seen it's up to the individual church.  For instance, my church had a pastor who had "altar girls" even though the Archdiocese said NO to that, but he didn't care and some Catholic churches have gospel masses.  Heck, most of the babies baptized in some Catholic churches are children of single mothers, so it varies.

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36 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

I understand that it's belonging/community/something to join, what have you.

Catholics do indeed excommunicate their members for equally silly "offenses". My mother-in-law was a staunch Catholic. Her ex husband was an alcoholic and a chronic womanizer. He left her for another woman and filed for divorce. Once she was divorced, her church told her she could no longer call herself a Catholic because of that divorce, but that her children could have a Catholic education (we'll take your money, but you're immoral-and give us your children please, thanks). Her heart was broken twice, and by the very people she turned to for faith.

Religion (scientology lumped in with everyone else) has a history of playing moral judge and jury against the very people who seek it. My granddaddies were both Baptist preachers, and my Mother was a closeted lesbian who came out after I was born. My family and their respective churches did the equivalent of icing her out while seeking to take custody of me because of her being "unfit". It's all the same, with varying degrees of severity.

The Catholic Church has a method for divorced people, it's called an annulment, and it looks like your grandmother would have qualified (I am also divorced from an addict/womanizer). I am now re married and I was re married in the Catholic Church.  Annulments do NOT cost thousands ( mine was $500). 

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With Catholics at least it depends on the church and how involved you are with the church.  My brother is divorced but then never really a strong catholic to begin with.  So I doubt it matters to him what the church thinks but my mother was a little upset that he couldn't marry his second wife in the church.  But hey it was a nice secular wedding.  Still legal.  Their daughter still got baptized.   Hell the priest who did it still called them Mr. & Mrs.  So I think it only really matters to the "faithful."  I think my aunt (who is VERY religious not quite sure which kind christian I think she is born again which is whole other conversation)  sent a few pamphlets on the evilness of divorce and how you should stay in an unhappy marriage because god wills it so.    

Every branch of religion has their....extreme types bordering on cults.   Hell I would go so far as every group activity does.  Take ANYTHING to an extreme and you will have cult like behavior.  However I still maintain my original point.  A true religion will let you leave and come back and...and talk smack about them.  Scientology does none of these things.  You say boo about Scientology and they will have lawyers up your ass so fast you will think you are at the proctologist.  

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6 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

According to Jenna Miscavige Hill's book that I am currently reading and honestly can't recommend enough if you want a perspective of someone who spent her entire life in the Sea Org, LRH believed that the root of all miscommunication was misunderstood words. So their schooling would consist of hours on end of looking up words in the dictionary. When they didn't do things right or got in trouble or didn't understand something in their course they would be told that they needed to "clear their words". If they thought everything was fine but made mistakes or said they didn't understand stuff they were directed to find their misunderstood word and clear it. Realize this was to a girl who was 7 years old.

I just read this chapter not an hour ago,and I was horrified that I remembered that reading technique, although not to the extent of learning alternative meanings and etymology. I was exposed to Scientologists when I unknowingly was hired at a copy shop while in school when I was 19. I knew what it was, but I took their intake test that supposedly exposed your flaws to hook you. Somewhere along the 6 months I lasted in what became a hellish experience, I picked up the reading "clear" concept. 

I can't imagine being raised as a kid in this cult, even one, unlike Jenna, who still had contact with wogs. Yikes!

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Jenna's book gives very detailed insights into what it's like to be a kid BORN into it. Leah was exposed to it later and didn't join up right away, so even though she dropped out of school after middle school, Jenna never even had that. The kids had audits about their "schoolwork," which was basically self-policed, on a daily basis, in addition to their weekly audits. At age 7, Jenna was handing out vitamins and homedic remedies to the other kids at the Abandoned Kids of Sea Org Ranch. She has to turn in weekly reports about kids who were sick (yes, the "nurse," too). Don't even get me started about the illegal child labor...Six year olds were subjected to 14 days, 6 days a week. They got a break on Sundays when they got to visit parents, if at least one was still local. 

What a horrible, abusive existence, and this is just a little slice if what kids' indoctrination looks like. Leah got off pretty easy. 

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24 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I still would like to know more about the kids that are in the cult.  Their lack of education. Lack of skills of how they deal with sp people and/or outsiders of their faith.  Also, about the kids of famous $cientologiests

Has Tommy even seen Suri since Katie's great escape? Most tabloids say he hasn't. 

NUTS. 

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11 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

Those were my exact thoughts last night - who are the auditors and how do you become one?  And do they still get audited themselves?  I find that whole aspect fascinating and would love to know more about it.

 

4 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

Whatever you do don't give them your real address or phone number or they will never stop hounding you.  Remini talked about in her book about people having to shut down their mailboxes because they got a never ending string of junk mail from CO$. 

I bought my home from a couple who belonged to Co$. The amount of junk mail I still get over three years later is astounding. It made me think they sold the house just to get away from it. However, I can answer the auditor question since I get a multitude of mailers asking the Previous Residents to become auditors. You just need to apply! I also get plenty of postcards trying to lure Previous Residents into Sea.org, though they seemed older than the usual crowd.

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15 hours ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

It'd be nice if it was up to the individual church about more important things than the gender of an alter person. I don't know whether or not most babies baptized in some catholic churches are indeed that of single mothers or not, but if that were the case, I'm not sure why it should be notable in the first place, as far as what the church needs to poke their nose into. Judge and jury, friends. Judge and jury.

My point was that the babies I've seen baptized, I know the mothers and I know they are not married, and those babies were still baptized in the Catholic church and no one said "boo" about it. 

But I do agree that the annulment issue is silly because it depends on whatever parish you belong to, if you get one or not.

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3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

My point was that the babies I've seen baptized, I know the mothers and I know they are not married, and those babies were still baptized in the Catholic church and no one said "boo" about it. 

But I do agree that the annulment issue is silly because it depends on whatever parish you belong to, if you get one or not.

Not true!!  I have been through the process (and BTW if you cannot afford it, they will not charge you, the fee is mainly for the paperwork) I met with the bishop from my archdiocese and then it goes to another for them to sign off on--I don't remember how many signed off on it, but I only met the one so I can't see how one parish priest that does not like you would stop it, if you have a legitimate case.  The paper work is massive, but very therapeutic.  There are strict guidelines that are followed.  Also an annulment does not make children bastards etc.  It ONLY means that the sacrament of holy matrimony was not received.

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Please keep the thread on the topic of Scientology and not religions as a whole.  While I'm sure there are some discussions to be had comparing Scientology beliefs to other religions, if your post is only about the other religion, it's not on topic.

Thanks!

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At what level do you have to be before the let you read the Sooper Seekrit Creation theory?  I cannot believe that everyone isn't like Paul Haggis who, after attaining the level and reading Hubbards' "XENU and the Planet of Exploding Volcanoes" Amazing Story, was worried that if you came away believing that balderdash, the Church would declare you insane and kick you out.  

So if I recall, both Travolta and Cruise have reached the level where they have gotten the XENU notes.  And they're still there.  No wonder Cruise comes off like a demented gnome in some of those off-the cuff interviews.  In a couple of cases, it's almost like he's having a conversation with himself.  Travolta, though, doesn't seem as hard-core from the interviews I've seen.  

Also, since Miscavage is so fond of lawsuits, I notice he's not running into court to file libel or slander suits against the people who have left Scientology and are making these claims.  And they aren't stating opinion.  They are stating FACT.  I imagine there's a big, big reason CO$ doesn't want civil suits about their practice -- the process of DISCOVERY.  There is no way in hell they want to be staring down a subpoena duces tecum.  I hear that Miscavage is TERRIFIED of having to give sworn testimony (cuz, you know - PERJURY).

Edited by Carolina Girl
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On 12/14/2016 at 0:46 PM, WInterfalls said:

Whatever you do don't give them your real address or phone number or they will never stop hounding you.  Remini talked about in her book about people having to shut down their mailboxes because they got a never ending string of junk mail from CO$. 

Word. (As opposed to WORD! Heh.) In the 1970s my sister and I filled out a Personality Test (the old school way that the CoS trawled for members via Dianetics) in the persona of TS Garp, the main character in The World According to Garp, which was THE novel of that summer. It was a fun thought experiment to us: how would Garp answer each question? His analysis was mailed to our home address along with a fuck-ton of other mailings. And we got many, many phone calls at home asking for TS Garp, who was one sick puppy and needed auditing right now! We found it amusing that no one snapped to the fact that it was a goof...how was it that nobody on the CoS side of things recognized that name? (In hindsight I'm sure that the poor staff members who processed the personality test barely had time to breathe, let alone read popular fiction.) Not so amusing were the ensuing decades of mail and phone calls. It only ended when my parents MOVED in the 1990s. In today's digital environment I would imagine that they would be even more relentless and stalkerish. Not worth it, in my opinion.

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23 hours ago, Wavy said:

There's a school in Clearwater for the kids of Scientologists.  I think it's called the Delphi Academy?

That is what its called and they are all over the place. There is a bunch out in my state. I came across this site when I was looking it up http://exscientologykids.com/scientology-schools/ Which I am wondering how they get away with these schools in my state. They have are not accredited at all. That is a HUGE thing for any school to have...more so when it comes to graduating from a high school. My son's high school is going through making sure it stays that way with the people coming next year for their tour and whatever to make sure its up to standards still. Looking at the Delphi Academy for Los Angeles I see that they mention LRH on the site and there is FAQs about it as well and if you have to be part of Scientology to go to their school or not. Yet I just wonder why anyone would want to send their child to such a place. I remember seeing the name before too. I wonder if its one of the names that popped in searches, for some reason, when I was trying to find a public homeschooling program for my daughter a few years ago. There is also, of course, the lovely tuition fees.  This question really falls in line with their whole thoughts on things like disabilities and such.

Do you accept students with “behavior problems” or “learning disabilities?”

We do not have a program to handle children with serious problems but have found that students are often mislabeled as having “behavior problems” or “disabled.” For some of these children, our basic teaching method and study techniques are all that are utilized to get a student back on track.

I am just amazed that they are allowed to have so many of these fraud schools up and running. 

I haven't had time to watch this week's episode but sounds like it was an interesting one and that next week's really will be. 

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My grandma bought some dianetics books back in the '70s, I'm sure she was pressured into it, she's not a "serious" reader so  she probably took one good look and gave it up.  It's been over 40 years and she still gets stuff in the mail from them.  I want to call them and say she's 90 years old and poor as fuck, you don't want her, leave her alone and I would but she doesn't really know what's going on anyway.  But they are persistent.

Edited because dianetics and diabetics are two unpleasant but very different things.(thanks, duke2801), I need to proofread better!)

Edited by savannah1985
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So the "church" claims all of these abuses to former now ex members as nonsense and lies? 

I have read a lot online the last few days because of Leah ( Thank You!).

My goodness there is so much info on the internet which is why the evil tiny troll dictator dosn't want any back talk about HIS "short" comings".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Miscavige, burn in your own personal volcano.

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On ‎2016‎-‎12‎-‎14 at 9:16 AM, Chaos Theory said:

The difference between a religion and a cult to me is that a religion lets you leave....and come back

This is probably the best description of a cult I've ever heard.

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10 hours ago, savannah1985 said:

My grandma bought some diabetics books back in the '70s, I'm sure she was pressured into it, she's not a "serious" reader so  she probably took one good look and gave it up.  It's been over 40 years and she still gets stuff in the mail from them.  I want to call them and say she's 90 years old and poor as fuck, you don't want her, leave her alone and I would but she doesn't really know what's going on anyway.  But they are persistent.

Yeah!  Those health nuts who say that cake, cookies, and pies are bad for you are clearly in cahoots with...  well, some evil, big-government type entity.  Monsanto?? Or perhaps LRH himself!

(hee hee I tease - I know what a jerk autocorrect is!!) 

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8 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

(hee hee I tease - I know what a jerk autocorrect is!!) 

The creators of autocorrect are clearly SPs, what with their trying to root out all mention of Dianetics!  Let's file a KR!  ;)

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