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LIVE CHAT: Election Night 2016 (11/8/2016)

formerlyfreedom

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lyric
lyric

Smugness?  Speaking only for myself, I had CONFIDENCE that the majority of our country wasn't bigoted, misogynistic, hateful bullies. It appears I could've been very, very wrong.

Bastet
Bastet

Not only could I not fall asleep, I couldn't even stay lying down. Hillary is going to survive a Trump presidency better than a lot of Americans, but I feel indescribably sorry for her tonight. 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

If HC loses, one of the main reasons is because she's a woman. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

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Kromm

Kromm

Just now, WhitneyWhit said:

I've been thinking about this. How do we teach that rape is bad when our president is a rapist and America voted for him? How do we prosecute a rapist when our president is a rapist?

How does HE get prosecuted in the current case? Do they have to undo the current case, elect a special prosecutor, and start again?

possibilities

possibilities

25 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

The infuriating thing is, a lot of the people who voted him did so because they really do think he can do all the bullshit he's been selling. "We're gonna strike Roe v Wade!" Great, I'll vote for him -- because a president, apparently, has the power to just unilaterally wipe out a Supreme Court ruling just because he wants. "We're gonna repeal and replace Obamacare!" Great, I'll vote for him -- even though he has yet to put forth an iota of an idea of what exactly he intends to replace Obamacare with or how he thinks he can improve healthcare in general, and again, can't just wipe out a law just because you want to, dude. But do they care? Nope. As long as he says the things they're thinking, the fact that he can't actually do any of it is irrelevant.

I keep hearing this idea that the people who voted for him did so not because they agree with his ideas but because they just wanted to vote for anyone who was "an outsider." But the Trump supporters I know actually DO agree with his positions. They WANT to repeal the Affordable Care Act, overturn Roe v Wade, deport millions of people, gut civil rights protections, etc. And Trump can do all of that and more if he appoints the likely number of Supreme Court vacancies, and wins majorities in Congress. 

I really don't know what to do to mitigate the horror. And it's not even like there's any hope to be had from the possibility that Trump will find the job too burdensome and just outsource it to Pence. Pence appears to not be as much of a loose cannon, but his aim is pretty much solidly-- and in some cases even more extremely-- pointed at the same targets. He's more anti-LGBT, so in that way he'd be worse. And he appears to have more discipline and concentration than Trump, and to be less likely to be caught pissing in public or committing some kind of felony that would get him impeached.

I remember how upset I was during Bush v Gore. But this is much worse.

I keep trying to see what possible good could come out of this. So far, I'm failing.

  • Love 18
Keepitmoving

Keepitmoving

(edited)
2 minutes ago, ebk57 said:

Fuck that noise.  Get a gun.  That's what Stand Your Ground is for!  

I'm practicing... 

Remember, in Trump's America stand your ground won't apply to everyone. He'll be able to grab anything he wants on your person and there will be no justice for you. 

Edited by Keepitmoving
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Shannon L.

Shannon L.

Trump wants to win, but I doubt he care much about serving. for him, it's about the title. another book he can write. like I said earlier, it's Pence that worries me the most (except that Trump just makes us look bad).

I took a break and finally broke down. I think that will happen more than once, too.  Now, I'm watching Real Genius and hoping that I can get a little sleep tonight. Tomorrow, I won't be watching the news. We'll see how I feel beyond that.

Thanks for being here everyone. 

  • Love 6
qtpye

qtpye

3 minutes ago, WhitneyWhit said:

I've been thinking about this. How do we teach that rape is bad when our president is a rapist and America voted for him? How do we prosecute a rapist when our president is a rapist?

Rape?  There will no longer will be a thing called rape.  Women are all whores who want to be taken roughly by a strong alpha male.  The only women that will complain are the ugly ones.

I am sure this is a view that most Trumpites would support

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slf

slf

3 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I keep hearing this idea that the people who voted for him did so not because they agree with his ideas but because they just wanted to vote for anyone who was "an outsider." But the Trump supporters I know actually DO agree with his positions. They WANT to repeal the Affordable Care Act, overturn Roe v Wade, deport millions of people, gut civil rights protections, etc. And Trump can do all of that and more if he appoints the likely number of Supreme Court vacancies, and wins majorities in Congress. 

Yeah, the idea that they are voting against the establishment is kind of undercut by them re-electing a huge portion of the establishment. A filthy rich white guy isn't exactly abnormal for the American government, either. I've got Trump supporters in my extended fam and they agree with everything he says. It's no coincidence our first black president might well be followed by a president endorsed by the KKK. This is a backlash against our black president, against the gains made by poc, women, Muslims, and the LGBT community. And they've wrapped this all up in this romantic myth, perpetuated by the media, that they are the Salt of the Earth. When, in reality, the average Trump supporter makes between $60,000-$90,000 a year. This is racial warfare, class warfare, religious warfare, etc.

  • Love 13
aradia22

aradia22

I live in NY. I have various levels of privilege that mean I will likely be alright aside from the overwhelming anxiety provoked by being unable to escape this horrible garbage monster's face ALL THE TIME. But I can't help but be miserable for what this says about our country and what this means for the future. We can't take this back. This is going in the history books forever. We let him win. We let him get his hands on the shiniest toy he's coveted yet. He's right. The system is broken. The system is rigged. 

  • Love 7
pennben

pennben

(edited)
1 hour ago, Kromm said:

Gary Johnson was the difference in numbers between Trump and Clinton in:

Floriduh!
North Caroliduh!

And his votes will also be the difference by the end count it appears, in both PA and MI.

But again, if it wasn't him then another Libertarian likely would have had most of those votes.

James Comey did this. Even with his partial reversal the other day.

1%, not 1/4. 

Nope.  I'm not going to blame Johnson/Stein (we did that with Nader in 2000 and here we are again).  I'm not going to blame Comey (we've had shit thrown in other elections, and here we are again).  I'm not going to blame polling/media (Kerry 2004).  There needs to be accountability there, sure...but time to face facts.

I'm going to blame me and my fellow citizens.  I'm not misdirecting my fire anymore.  I'm blaming progressives who thought Hillary wasn't pure enough.  I'm blaming the racists.  I'm blaming the sexists.  I'm blaming the "economically insecure".  I'm blaming myself for not doing enough throughout the years.  I'm blaming complacency. I'm blaming the people. I'm blaming the voters.  Full stop.

I'm not going to go down the road again of chalking it up to a "weird circumstance or two".  No one should.

I'm going to work harder for the next two years to get back the House and Senate. We'll likely not. But I'm going to keep working hard to figure everything else out so as to somehow figure out how not to have a fuckup like this again.

And along the way, I'm going to hold up and raise up as many people as I can that have been let down tonight.  America is not gone, it's not all lost.  We took a body blow, we are hurt, but I will always believe that we will still rise.

Edited by pennben
  • Love 22
Bastet

Bastet

An overwhelming numbness, I guess, has set in.  I've turned off the TV and sat here staring at nothing for some time now.  I can't analyze the whys and hows, I can't cry anymore, I can hardly even type these words -- I pause for long moments between them, even though I have no thoughts to gather.  I never knew I could be this ashamed of my country or this afraid for the future.  I should go for a walk, go to bed, or something, but I can't move.  I can't describe how I feel, but it's soul crushing.

  • Love 15
aradia22

aradia22

Quote

Rape?  There will no longer will be a thing called rape.  Women are all whores who want to be taken roughly by a strong alpha male.  The only women that will complain are the ugly ones.

Oh God. This is just a validation of... I can't even type coherently. I come from the world of romance novels. If you ever want to understand internalized misogyny and the leaps that have (and sometimes have not) been made in just the matter of decades and sometimes just a decade... 

I think my parents are asleep, comforted by the knowledge that Trump has likely won. I'm going to get some water.

  • Love 3
sleekandchic

sleekandchic

(edited)

My heart aches for our great President Obama, his wife, children and family.

My heart breaks for Mr and Mrs Khan.

My love and hand are extended to Hillary.  What a warrior you are, Madam Secretary.

I feel sorrow for myself, my husband, family, siblings, clients.

May God have mercy on the United States of America.

We've been through worse.  We SHALL overcome.

Christie eleison.

Kyrie eleison.

Be strong please.  We will need strength, resilience and commitment to each other.

P.S. oh.  I am suspicious of tonight's results.  Yes, Donald.  Rigged.

Edited by sleekandchic
  • Love 15
ebk57

ebk57

(edited)

I'm glad I'm here with you all.  I cannot formulate any coherent thoughts tonight and you're all helping me through.  My SIL in Australia has called and she's mortified.  My brother in Italy is horrified.  I'm numb.

But not numb enough that I don't want to slap Chris Matthews right in the face.  He's blaming Hillary for not talking about illegal immigration.  Oy vey...

Edited by ebk57
  • Love 7
backformore

backformore

Quote

But not numb enough to want to slap Chris Matthews right in the face.  He's blaming Hillary for not talking about illegal immigration.  Oy vey...

What an ass.  Hillary was forced to spend the entire campaign talking about fuckin' EMAILS, because everyone kept hammering at that issue.   The media has to take some responsibility for this.

  • Love 14
briochetwist

briochetwist

(edited)
10 minutes ago, backformore said:

HOW?  How do we go from the coolest prez ever, to this?   HOW? 

So true. Trump kept saying that the world thought Obama was weak, such a lie. The world thinks highly of Barack Obama. Donald Trump on the other hand? Canadian, British and French media have been laughing at him for a year and a half. If you caught any CBC coverage tonight you saw how shocked they were that he actually won. It's unfathomable to us.

Edited by briochetwist
  • Love 7
aradia22

aradia22

Quote

Yeah, the idea that they are voting against the establishment is kind of undercut by them re-electing a huge portion of the establishment. A filthy rich white guy isn't exactly abnormal for the American government, either. I've got Trump supporters in my extended fam and they agree with everything he says. It's no coincidence our first black president might well be followed by a president endorsed by the KKK. This is a backlash against our black president, against the gains made by poc, women, Muslims, and the LGBT community. And they've wrapped this all up in this romantic myth, perpetuated by the media, that they are the Salt of the Earth. When, in reality, the average Trump supporter makes between $60,000-$90,000 a year. This is racial warfare, class warfare, religious warfare, etc.

True. And yes, a lot of it was driven by both the action and inaction of white voters. But you can't discount the effect of all the nonwhite, nonstraight, etc. voters who in addition to the demographic of "non-college-educated whites" also turned up in support of Donald Trump. And I don't know how to fix that. 

In case it wasn't clear, yes, my parents are still awake. My dog was hiding in the bathroom. I rescued him and brought him to my room. Now we're just staring at each other sadly.

  • Love 4
dcalley

dcalley

27 minutes ago, Maharincess said:

I haven't had a drink in 20 years but I'm seriously contemplating cracking a bottle of wine. I'm sick to my stomach and can't stop crying.

I agree with @Chicken Wing: don't start drinking now, it will not have a positive effect.

 

I thought Scalia's death was a good thing at the time, but apparently that seat was so important to some people that they voted for Trump despite having problems with him.

Survey: "72 percent [of] Donald Trump likely voters say American culture and way of life has changed for the worse since the 1950s" (italics in original, and this was 2 weeks ago). They want to take us back to the 1950s. On the Clinton side, it was 70 percent saying things have changed for the better since then.

  • Love 8
Spacecow

Spacecow

(edited)

I'm just so struck by the contrast between tonight and 2008. I was ~12 years old and I watched Obama deliver his speech with my father, a black man, and I felt so hopeful about the future. We were all in our pajamas and we had a big bowl of popcorn. Sure I was just a kid, but seeing a man that looked like my dad as a president felt huge. My dad was quick to remind me that it wouldn't magically end racism but damn it still felt like a victory. And then there's tonight. I had a very solemn phone call with my dad while watching MSNBC in tears. I could tell he was choking up too, and he never chokes up. I feel a heaviness in my bones that I've never felt before in my life. This isn't the historic night that I wanted, but it's still historic for all the wrong reasons. How fucked is it that I have to fear for my father's safety, and the safety of every black man in this country? Trump wants Guiliani in his cabinet. Stop and Frisk could be national policy. I'm from Phoenix and I'm ashamed in advance for everything that the latino population there will experience. I'm rambling, I know, but I'm all alone here in my apartment and I need an anonymous outlet away from the Bernie Bros and Trump supporters that dominate my social media outlets. I'm so, so afraid. 

Edited by Spacecow
  • Love 13
InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

1 minute ago, backgroundnoise said:

So did voters lie to pollsters, or did the pollsters not even ask those rural counties if they planned to vote?

If Chris Matthews wanted Hillary to talk about immigration, why did he ask her about it? 

My guess is he got a lot of lapsed voters and new voters. I could be wrong, but I think polls are mostly focused on people who voted in the last general election. 

  • Love 4
WhitneyWhit

WhitneyWhit

2 minutes ago, Spacecow said:

I'm just so struck by the contrast between tonight and 2008. I was ~12 years old and I watched Obama deliver his speech with my father, a black man, and I felt so hopeful about the future. Sure I was just a kid, but seeing a man that looked like my dad as a president felt huge. My dad was quick to remind me that it wouldn't magically end racism but damn it still felt like a victory. And then there's tonight. I had a very solemn phone call with my dad while watching MSNBC in tears. I could tell he was choking up too, and he never chokes up. I feel a heaviness in my bones that I've never felt before in my life. This isn't the historic night that I wanted, but it's still historic for all the wrong reasons. How fucked is it that I have to fear for my father's safety, and the safety of every black man in this country? Trump wants Guiliani in his cabinet. Stop and Frisk could be national policy. I'm from Phoenix and I'm ashamed in advance for everything that the latino population there will experience. I'm rambling, I know, but I'm all alone here in my apartment and I need an anonymous outlet away from the Bernie Bros and Trump supporters that dominate my social media outlets. I'm so, so afraid. 

I know what you mean, 2004 was the first presidential election I could vote in and I felt so defeated when Bush won, but then along came Obama, and although I supported Hilary in the primary, I was full on Obama in the general and I remember the night he won being, pardon the cheesiness, magical, seeing a black man elected president gave me such hope that we could do anything as a nation, I never dreamed that it meant we could also elect a white supremacist just eight short years later.

  • Love 5
aradia22

aradia22

Quote

But not numb enough that I don't want to slap Chris Matthews right in the face.  He's blaming Hillary for not talking about illegal immigration.  Oy vey...

FUCK THAT NOISE. There was no right thing for her to say. No issue she should have championed. No conviction she should have compromised on. No group she should have pandered to. She is running against a CLOWN and as I have said repeatedly tonight, that is something we cannot overstate and must not forget. 

Quote

72 percent [of] Donald Trump likely voters say American culture and way of life has changed for the worse since the 1950s" (italics in original, and this was 2 weeks ago). They want to take us back to the 1950s. 

  • Love 4
HumblePi

HumblePi

(edited)
3 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Well, this is just great. My daughter's transgender best friend is currently being talked out of committing suicide because of this. This is Trump's legacy. 

How sad and even sadder, Mike Pence would hand her a weapon. I left to get to sleep and couldn't sleep. Got back up to watch the news, bad idea. Now waiting for Hillary to concede this horrendous nightmarish election

Edited by HumblePi
  • Love 7
katha

katha

17 minutes ago, pennben said:

Nope.  I'm not going to blame Johnson/Stein (we did that with Nader in 2000 and here we are again).  I'm not going to blame Comey (we've had shit thrown in other elections, and here we are again).  I'm not going to blame polling/media (Kerry 2004).  There needs to be accountability there, sure...but time to face facts.

I'm going to blame my fellow citizens.  I'm not misdirecting my fire anymore.  I'm blaming progressives who thought Hillary wasn't pure enough.  I'm blaming the racists.  I'm blaming the sexists.  I'm blaming the "economically insecure".  I'm blaming myself for not doing enough throughout the years.  I'm blaming complacency. I'm blaming the people. I'm blaming the voters.  Full stop.

I'm not going to go down the road again of chalking it up to a "weird circumstance or two".  No one should.

I'm going to work harder for the next two years to get back the House and Senate. We'll likely not. But I'm going to keep working hard to figure everything else out so as to somehow figure out how not to have a fuckup like this again.

And along the way, I'm going to hold up and raise up as many people as I can that have been let down tonight.  America is not gone, it's not all lost.  We took a body blow, we are hurt, but I will always believe that we will still rise.

Yes, ultimately voters are responsible for their votes. They wanted this (or couldn't be bothered to turn up, or cast a third party vote knowing the consequences), now they have to own it. That a demagogue who was peddling division and prejudice won in this election is now part of America's legacy.

  • Love 6
Bastet

Bastet

(edited)
Quote

I know what you mean, 2004 was the first presidential election I could vote in and I felt so defeated when Bush won, but then along came Obama, and although I supported Hilary in the primary, I was full on Obama in the general and I remember the night he won being, pardon the cheesiness, magical, seeing a black man elected president gave me such hope that we could do anything as a nation, I never dreamed that it meant we could also elect a white supremacist just eight short years later.

Yeah, from the first black president to the KKK-endorsed candidate in eight years.

Edited by Bastet
  • Love 10
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