S07.E02: The Well

[halgia]

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For a number of familiar faces, a new, well-established community seems too good to be true.

[halgia]

This thread will unlock after the episode airs; until then, take it to the pre-air/live chat thread.

[Boofish]

E motherfucking Zekiel for the win!

[Armchair Critic]

Finally a likable character!

[Boofish]

I think Ezekiel is smart enough to know you need people like Carol and Morgan on your A Team.

[AngelaHunter]

For the first time ever, I had to turn this off. I thought I had accidentally ingested hallucinatory drugs as I watched Carol’s trip and then Morgan and his protegee doing the Karate Kid Stork or whatever, to the strains of an a cappela Bob Dylan’s “Don’t Think Twice.”

People were scornful of Phillp calling himself “Governor,” but here we have someone who seems to be delusional and maybe even insane who crowned himself “King” (wearing one of the worst wigs I’ve ever seen - the front of which reminds me of an afghan I crocheted some years ago)  and no one bats an eye. I really need to know where all the CGI meat comes from to feed what appears to be a 700lb CGI Bengal tiger. The tiger, however, looked good and is about the only moment I enjoyed.

Carol hasn’t eaten for days and turns down a pomegranate. You could have taken the apple, Carol. Personally, if she wants to run off, who cares? At this point I say “Good riddance.’'  And it’s hardly Morgan’s place to tell her he can’t let her go. Who is he? Her guardian, father... ? Go back and play with your stick, Morgan.

[Dodginblue]

I thought at first that this episode was strange, then decided maybe it wasn't really happening, that it was Carol's hallucination, kind of a cruel continuation of the imaginary scenes in last week's episode, how things aren't going to be, no sitting around having dinner together, bouncing baby on the knee and so on.  

With the pigs and the saviors I figured no, it's happening, and then the Kingdom scenes  seemed corny.  Until Ezekiel and Carol were talking near the end, that helped to save the episode.  He seems real, someone who's fully cognizant of who is he and who he needs to be to keep the people together, he faked it until he made it.  That maybe, unlike Rick until last week's episode, Ezekiel doesn't actually believe his own sh*t.  

Edited October 31, 2016 by Dodginblue

[Boofish]

Shiva & Jerry haven't missed a meal since day 1 of the apocalypse . 

[minamurray78]

Ezekiel is the kind of neighbour that shows at your doorstep after you've barely finished settling down.

Also, I'd like for Negan's crew to be fed to the pigs, before they turn zombie.

[MaggieG]

Carol and Morgan seem to have stumbled on the only LARPing community in the ZA.

[Dodginblue]

9 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

For the first time ever, I had to turn this off. I thought I had accidentally ingested hallucinatory drugs as I watched Carol’s trip and then Morgan and his protegee doing the Karate Kid Stork or whatever, to the strains of an a cappela Bob Dylan’s “Don’t Think Twice.”

People were scornful of Phillp calling himself “Governor,” but here we have someone who seems to be delusional and maybe even insane who crowned himself “King” (wearing one of the worst wigs I’ve ever seen - the front of which reminds me of an afghan I crocheted some years ago)  and no one bats an eye. I really need to know where all the CGI meat comes from to feed what appears to be a 700lb CGI Bengal tiger. The tiger, however, looked good and is about the only moment I enjoyed.

Carol hasn’t eaten for days and turns down a pomegranate. You could have taken the apple, Carol. Personally, if she wants to run off, who cares? At this point I say “Good riddance.’'  And it’s hardly Morgan’s place to tell her he can’t let her go. Who is he? Her guardian, father... ? Go back and play with your stick, Morgan.

I could see the taking off if Carol is trying to get back to ASZ except then I remembered that she'd left there to begin with, it's how she ended up out there.  So she's not trying to get back to anyone.  And then she moves into a house right on the road and starts a fire, so anyone passing by can't miss it.   Which I guess it's okay because it's only Ezekiel at the door.   And not some random psycho.   How cozy!  Hopefully she's had time to whip up a casserole, they can have dinner together by the fireplace.

[AngelaHunter]

Just now, Dodginblue said:

I could see the taking off if Carol is trying to get back to ASZ except then I remembered that she'd left there to begin with, it's how she ended up out there.  So she's not trying to get back to anyone.  And then she moves into a house right on the road and starts a fire, so anyone passing by can't miss it.   Which I guess it's okay because it's only Ezekiel at the door.   And not some random psycho.   How cozy!  Hopefully she's had time to whip up a casserole, they can have dinner together by the fireplace.

Right. She's trying to be the Littlest Hobo of the ZA, just wandering around, maybe doing a good deed here and then and she's on her way. I'm amazed at how bright and perky she is after being seriously wounded, losing a lot of blood and being unconscious for two days. Tough lady!

[Eyes High]

The choir was made up of members of the Georgia State University Singers.

The FX for the tiger were pretty good. Better than I was expecting, anyway.

Ezekiel was great. Perfect casting. The community theatre actor part was a perfect touch.

I giggled at the Ren Faire-esque pipes and flutes used when Ezekiel was putting on his King Ezekiel act. Oh, Bear McCreary, you musical scamp.

Quote

Carol hasn’t eaten for days and turns down a pomegranate.

Clearly she knows her Greek myths.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Eyes High

[thuganomics85]

Well then!  I figured they might try to lighten things up a bit after last week, but there was some laugh out loud comedy moments going on here (in a good way.)  Carol's reaction to seeing Ezekiel and Shiva might have been one of the most hilarious things ever.  And this Jerry character (is that the same actor who plays Yo-Yo on Halt and Catch Fire?) was cracking me up.  Who knew this show could be so funny?!

In all seriousness, I'm actually kind of digging Ezekiel and this Kingdom.  The actor is captivating and has the perfect voice for the role (Chris Hardwick mentioning he does a lot voiceover work on video games explains why he sounds so familiar), and I love the reveal that he isn't flat-out crazy, but was a zookeeper and community theater actor, who is just putting on a show, and trying to survive.  And that he saw through Carol's obvious fake persona (which was extra over-the-top here.  It was kind of sad that no one else saw it.) I really hope they don't turn him or his group into just another gang of villains, and they actually become wacky and crazy allies.  Especially since it seems like they're under the Savior's thumb as well.  Although making the pigs they give them eat Walker meat is a brilliant passive aggressive way to get back at them!

So, Morgan has become the cheesemaker now?  Hopefully, his student will fare better here and not accidentally get his master bitten.

Congrats to Alanna Masterson, Josh McDermitt, and Christian Serratos to getting into the opening credits.  Just had to sacrifice Steven Yeun and Michael Cudlitz to do so!

Shiva wasn't bad, but I could tell it was CGI.  Understandably though, that they were going to just put a live tiger right next to their actors.

And... fun times are already over since next week will be about Daryl getting broken by Negan.  Boo!

Edited October 31, 2016 by thuganomics85

[MostlyContent]

I just loved the whole, darn episode.  :)

After the casserole of depression they served up last week, it was a welcome relief.  

The king is an interesting guy, and I appreciated the humor throughout the episode, although it was odd for TWD.  

The whole issue of clean-up pigs being slaughtered for Negan is intriguing. 

I was glad that Carol moved in next door and didn't go wandering off.  

For once, I really like a new community.  

[candall]

Hmm, much different tone over here than in the Live Chat thread (where it was enjoyed by nearly all.)  Well, here's my final Live Chat post anyway:

Sigh.  How long before we can get back to King Ezekiel--looking very nice in casualwear, btw--leaning up against Carol's door jamb with a ripe and juicy offering?

.

Edited October 31, 2016 by candall
Loved? Praised? Let's go with "enjoyed"

[TigerLynx]

If I ever end up in a ZA, I want my own pet Tiger.  That's all I've got.

[BloatedGuppy]

Reasonable come-down episode after the "event" premiere. What could have made for a truly ridiculous series of events and characters was salvaged by some likable actors.

• Khary Payton really shone as Ezekial. Solid monologue, even made the (ludicrous) tiger seem somehow acceptable.
• The nice kid whom Morgan is tutoring is so obviously going to die I will be stunned if he doesn't.
• The Tiger CGI, while reasonable, was still very, very CGI. The Life of Pi, this is not.
• I have absolutely no idea what this show wants to do with Carol. A few seasons ago, keeping her alive seemed like one of the smartest things they ever did, as she was stealing every scene she was in and experiencing a genuinely interesting arc. Now she's a mess. I couldn't tell you what the character's motivations or state of mind are from one moment to the next, and it's not because she's fascinatingly unhinged, it's because the writers don't know what on earth to do with her. I'm hoping this Kingdom storyline re-centers her. That, or they just write her off the show and have done with it.

[mmecorday]

Quote

I'm amazed at how bright and perky she is after being seriously wounded, losing a lot of blood and being unconscious for two days. Tough lady!

This is the same woman who was struck by a speeding vehicle and spent, what, a day or two in the hospital, and was back in fighting form after sleeping off her injuries. I guess after all those years of domestic abuse, her bones just learned to fuse back together without major surgery.

That line about "wanting their bellies full of rot." I think our cafeteria ladies had the same philosophy back in the day.

This was an odd little episode. But I think I needed a respite from the brain bashing of last week's entry in this grim zombie soap.

Edited October 31, 2016 by mmecorday
word change

[AngelaHunter]

There was something I liked after all. The kid? Who ate the broccoli? I liked him better than I did anyone else tonight. 

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That line about "wanting their guts full of rot." I think our cafeteria ladies had the same philosophy back in the day.

Aaaand - I needed that laugh.

Quote

And... fun times are already over since next week will be about Daryl getting broken by Negan.  

The earth-shaking roar you will hear will be that of the fanfic writers having simultaneous orgasms.

Edited October 31, 2016 by AngelaHunter

[Madding crowd]

I guess I'm in the minority; I didn't like most of this episode. The "king" is Ok, but so much of it seemed so hokey to me. I hate it when I can tell its a big 'comic book" moment. The damn tiger had a head 5x too big. Other random thoughts (too tired to be organized): Why can't people live together in a cooperative way. Why must a wacky leader always be in charge. I don't like Carol and her fake Susie homemaker voice. It somehow suggests she is secretly smarter and more sophisticated than everyone else and they all want to be friends with a brainless airhead. I love Bob Dylan, but the song seemed really out of place and corny.

I still don't really understand Neagan and his gang. If they are too lazy to plant vegetables or chase pigs, working out a trade deal would make so much more sense. I also just don't get doing all this for food. Neagan's people are traveling to various compounds, risking getting killed to get few pigs and lettuce. It seems so much smarter and easier for the groups to trade different things. Ezekiel's group seems large; why wouldn't they band with other groups to take out Neagan? How does having a bat make one more dangerous than a large, armed group?

Back to Carol. I like Melissa McBride and she does a great job with Carol, but I'm not sure I like her now. She has to live apart from everyone because they are sheep and she is a lone wolf. Ok, but what about when she was injured; she needed help then right? I'm also not sure why she would be given the cottage when there are probably other non-injured people who might like it instead. Why are most of the enforcers and deal makers men? Also: I don't want a romance between the King and Carol. It just doesn't make sense to me. I could see her getting with Morgan (and he remains one of my favorite characters). What I did like: the convo between Ezekiel and Carol, and Morgan's ease in being with the group. To me, he proves there are different ways of being brave. And should I assume right now, Rick will arrive at some point and all hell is going to break loose?

[AngelaHunter]

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 Although making the pigs they give them eat Walker meat is a brilliant passive aggressive way to get back at them!

Tainted meat! But this time it really is. I'm sure anyone eating those pigs that dine on rotten flesh have to get sick sooner or later.

[minamurray78]

16 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

  And this Jerry character (is that the same actor who plays Yo-Yo on Halt and Catch Fire?) was cracking me up. 

Yes, that is Cooper Andrews.

[Tara Ariano]

(If you're going to time-lock an episode thread, please make sure the unlock time is correct. Apparently this one was not.)

[toodywoody]

I'm digging it. I'm digging seeing another community and how it works instead of a bunch of assholes running around putting up roadblocks and acting like dicks. I understand it's a different world and it's only the fittest survive but the bully shit I'm tired of.

Hope they ate those nasty pigs and died. 

Seems to me that Negans crew is just lazy and wants the fruits everyone else has worked hard for. It's only a matter of time before they eat more rotten meat and get what they deserve. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by toodywoody

[tricknasty]

That was boring as fuck

Edited October 31, 2016 by tricknasty
Cranky

[oakville]

8 minutes ago, toodywoody said:

I'm digging it. I'm digging seeing another community and how it works instead of a bunch of assholes running around putting up roadblocks and acting like dicks. I understand it's a different world and it's only the fittest survive but the bully shit I'm tired of.

Hope they ate those nasty pigs and died. 

I enjoyed the episode. It was nice to see a functioning community. Zeke & his tiger were hilarious. Morgan seems happy being a coach to the Karate kid. I think it's very intelligent to feed Negan's people tainted pork. They might get sick & it would be easier to take them out. It's not clear if Negan knows the exact location of the Kingdom, but it is strange that they meet away from the village. Do only a few people know about the deal?

[theredhead77]

There's no way I will be able to keep up with this thread. I just want to say I'm relieved Shiva is CGI (at first I thought they brought in a motherfuckingtiger and was very distressed.

The second is tainted bacon has got to have a payoff sooner rather than later.

[lmsweb]

Loved the episode. And people can bitch all they want, but I like how the producers do this....they destroy us with a horrific, mind numbing episode last week and follow it up with this episode, with a complete 180 degree turn in tone. Frankly, I love that shit. It's a nice way of showing the contrast between groups and how different groups of people are still, 2 1/2 years later, working out how to survive the ZA.

I love Carol. I'm even loving Morgan, even though I thought he was kind of a wuss-ass last season. I loved Carol dropping the act with Ezrkiel and finally having an honest to god conversation with him, where we get to see him drop the act he portrays to keep the strength of his own people.

And yes, totally shipping Carol and Ezekiel. And not looking forward to the Daryl-torture that is inevitable next episode, but I'm still in for the long haul.

[nvwalker]

Was Carol wearing a GPS tracking device? And...wasn't that a booty knock on the door?  I'm rewatching this episode right now.  No way can I rewatch the season premiere again.  I loved TTD telling how they used peanut butter on the actors, image going home at night and telling your family "I got painted in peanut butter and licked to death (on screen, as zombies) by pigs" about your day at work.  I did LOVE seeing the horses and hope they use them more and more.  Seven seasons in, fuel and vehicles would not be running all that reliably. 

[lmsweb]

Oh yes, I forgot that part!! My daughter, who along with myself is an avid rider, texted me at the same time as I texted her. To paraphrase "OMG the Kingdom has horses in the ZA so we have to go there". Like we were discussing where we'd actually go if, you know......ZA. LOL

[The Mighty Peanut]

37 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

If I ever end up in a ZA, I want my own pet Tiger.  That's all I've got.

I really am hoping the tiger doesn't go the way of Buttons (RIP Buttons). It's truly imperative for Rick and company to keep away from the Kingdom and all  its inhabitants.

[nvwalker]

I hope the tainted meat doesn't make it's way to Daryl though :(

[lmsweb]

7 minutes ago, nvwalker said:

Was Carol wearing a GPS tracking device? And...wasn't that a booty knock on the door?  I'm rewatching this episode right now.  No way can I rewatch the season premiere again.  I loved TTD telling how they used peanut butter on the actors, image going home at night and telling your family "I got painted in peanut butter and licked to death (on screen, as zombies) by pigs" about your day at work.  I did LOVE seeing the horses and hope they use them more and more.  Seven seasons in, fuel and vehicles would not be running all that reliably. 

That was a booty call that I would have cheerfully shoved Carol out of the way for.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

I really am hoping the tiger doesn't go the way of Buttons (RIP Buttons). It's truly imperative for Rick and company to keep away from the Kingdom and all  its inhabitants.

Agree. No animal that has ever crossed their path has survived to talk about it.

[HighMaintenance]

15 minutes ago, oakville said:

It's not clear if Negan knows the exact location of the Kingdom, but it is strange that they meet away from the village. Do only a few people know about the deal?

Yes the kid mentioned that the King wants to keep the Savior deal on the down low.  Ezekiel's afraid that if the residents of the Kingdom hear about the Saviors deal, they will want to fight them and they will no doubt lose.  I'm guessing that the Kingdom location is known to the Saviors, otherwise their threats would be pretty empty.

[CletusMusashi]

1 minute ago, nvwalker said:

I hope the tainted meat doesn't make it's way to Daryl though :(

I'm pretty sure he's immune to it by now.

[NorthstarATL]

I like the Kingdom, and I like Ezekiel. I even know more names already than I did in Woodbury or Alexandria after a relatively short time, but maybe that's partially because it is such a nice contrast to last week's debacle. I was amused by Carol's act and also that Ezekiel saw right through it, but recognizes the importance of playing a role in the ZA. Now if he could just give some pointers to Negan about how not to overdo a monologue!

   Carol was/is problematic for the writers, so placing her apart from the community, but not sending her off into the unknown seems a workable solution. Ezekiel will have somewhere to go and someone to let his guard down around, and she can be her most useful as a secret weapon.

  Morgan training the new guy and getting to hang with a kid again is also a wonderful chance for him  to get back to something productive. Alexandria was stifling both characters.

   While I hope that the shenanigans with the pigs and the knights on horseback can keep the Neganites away from this place, history tells me otherwise, and I am just dreading the inevitable arrival of Rick's group and the calamity they bring.

[AngelaHunter]

1 minute ago, CletusMusashi said:

I'm pretty sure he's immune to it by now.

After all those raw squirrels, (something else that bugged the hell out of me but oh well) he's got such a raging case of tapeworms he doesn't need to worry about a little tainted meat.

[NorthstarATL]

13 minutes ago, nvwalker said:

I did LOVE seeing the horses and hope they use them more and more.  Seven seasons in, fuel and vehicles would not be running all that reliably. 

Bicycles! They don't require fuel, can be modified in all sorts of ways, and becoming a bike mechanic could make you the Elon Musk of the ZA!

Edited October 31, 2016 by NorthstarATL

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I was totally eating pomegranate seeds while King Ezekiel waxed philosophical about pomegranates.

[The Mighty Peanut]

11 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

That was a booty call that I would have cheerfully shoved Carol out of the way for.

That was the ZA equivalent of a text at 2am that says, simply, "u up?" And yeah, I'd have answered that call, too. 

[peach]

10 minutes ago, NorthstarATL said:

 Alexandria was stifling both characters.

Alexandria stifles all the characters.

[whiskeyandfeet]

How has Aaron, the great tracker, who had been following our gang for a spell before recruiting them, not ever come across The Kingdom, The Hilltop, any of The Saviors, etc?

[peach]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Carol's reaction to seeing Ezekiel and Shiva might have been one of the most hilarious things ever.  

I love the reveal that he isn't flat-out crazy, but was a zookeeper and community theater actor, who is just putting on a show, and trying to survive.  And that he saw through Carol's obvious fake persona (which was extra over-the-top here. 

Morgan hemming and hawing about who she was going to meet was funny (Ezekiel..um, does his own thing.)   And I really did LOL at her reaction, and then asking Morgan, "are you shitting me??"  I also laughed when she said there's LUNCH cobbler, too?  Although I, myself, would be pretty excited about lunch cobbler during the ZA.  Or any other time.

Then her one-on-one with Ezekiel helped salvage the ridiculous.  You can't bullshit a bullshitter. He seemed glad to have someone to be real with.

I think I understand Carol's arc.  She just needs a break.  Ezekiel gave her a "third way."  Go and not go.  Sort of like how Aaron helped Daryl be an outside cat.

3 minutes ago, whiskeyandfeet said:

How has Aaron, the great tracker, who had been following our gang for a spell before recruiting them, not ever come across The Kingdom, The Hilltop, any of The Saviors, etc?

Right?  The only group he's found is Rick's Plague People.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Haha, "Rick's Plague People". Like party people except instead of presents you die.  It woud make a good cover band. 

I love that Ezekiel flat out admitted he got his shtick from community theater. Negan should be so humble. 

[Yolapukka]

I liked it, it was an interesting episode. I enjoyed a great deal of it, "King" Ezekiel was a bit much until his sit-down with Carol, I was thinking the character's past might be teacher of drama or literature at a small college with a past on the stage, so the revelation of his past involvement with community theatre made me laugh. I had no theories about the tiger, but his explanation was as good as any we might get for that bit of ridiculousness. (My mind kept coming round to a short story I read few years ago about an escaped tiger that showed it's affection for the people it encountered by eating them, starting with a zoo-keeper.) I enjoyed Carol's refusal to eat the food he offered her, at least while she was within his jurisdiction. She had no barriers to bolting down some breakfast cobbler elsewhere in the compound...

 

After a certain point, I get bored of too much gore, mayhem and yappy, crazy, eeville villains. It was good to see a yappy good guy and people building something that wasn't an obvious house of cards or an elaborate trap.

[nvwalker]

If Aaron had not found Rick's group, where would they be now?  Better off?  Or overwhelmed by the herds?  it didn't seem that they were being that self sufficient in Alexandria, hence the lawns versus what should have been gardens and fruit trees, more layers of barbed wire fencing and trenches outside, etc. (just what I think I would be doing for a safer encampment).  So it is a double edge sword, they haven't brought good luck but maybe they kept worse things from happening? 

[CletusMusashi]

I kind of wish that this was the town where Maggie went looking for a doctor.

Maggie: Ah'm havin' mah babeh...

Zeke: See that this woman has all of her needs tended to.

Doctor: How far apart are the contractions?

Zeke: Contractions? You know I do not use such things. A king must always speak in complete words.

[Dodginblue]

26 minutes ago, whiskeyandfeet said:

How has Aaron, the great tracker, who had been following our gang for a spell before recruiting them, not ever come across The Kingdom, The Hilltop, any of The Saviors, etc?

I don't think Aaron ever he said was the great tracker.  And it seems like he was looking for stragglers, people kind of out there on their own, which the Kingdom people have their own thing, same with Hilltop, so I don't think they'd want to leave that to go to ASZ even if he did run into any of them,   And maybe he and Eric did spot the saviors but stayed away from them.  They would observe before approaching anyone so it probably didn't take too much to figure out the saviors were bad news.