Governor Mike Pence: 2016 Vice President-Elect

[Duke Silver]

^^^^  

Quote

“If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks,” Mr. Trump said, as the crowd began to boo. He quickly added: “Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”

"No one should take what he says seriously." --Drumph supporters.......and also his handlers to Shinzo Abe before their meeting the other day

Yeah, sure....Drumph as President is an awesome idea.

[oakville]

5 hours ago, backformore said:

Hamilton is a political play.  speaking to a politician in the audience of another play might be weird and inappropriate, but what was said at the Hamilton curtain call was in keeping with the theme and viewpoint of the play.   And if you read what they said - it was not confrontational or insulting.  It was a simple plea for equality. 

OK, but has the cast been calling out any other politicians that have attended the play over the past few years. ?

Given the popularity of the show, wouldn't the cast have had an opportunity to point out other politicians that they disagree with politically ?

[backformore]

7 minutes ago, oakville said:

OK, but has the cast been calling out any other politicians that have attended the play over the past few years. ?

Given the popularity of the show, wouldn't the cast have had an opportunity to point out other politicians that they disagree with politically ?

The play has been on Broadway for a little over a year.  

Maybe this is the first time there has been a national political figure with such a hateful history in the audience.

[SmithW6079]

19 minutes ago, oakville said:

OK, but has the cast been calling out any other politicians that have attended the play over the past few years. ?

Given the popularity of the show, wouldn't the cast have had an opportunity to point out other politicians that they disagree with politically ?

There's a difference between a politician with whom you disagree and one whose stated goals are to roll back women's reproductive rights, subject gay people to (discredited) "conversion" therapy and strip them of any civil protections, and change the United States into a Christian theocracy.

Edited November 21, 2016 by SmithW6079

[windsprints]

Quote

Given the popularity of the show, wouldn't the cast have had an opportunity to point out other politicians that they disagree with politically ?

If you google its pretty easy to see that other politicians have attended the show.  However, this is the first time a person about to enter the White House attended as the show was not in production 4 years ago. So, no real comparison IMO.

Pence doesn't even care. It was Trump who took to twitter over it.

Edited November 21, 2016 by windsprints

[maraleia]

14 hours ago, oakville said:

Thanks for the information. This forum is so helpful !. I am not as afraid to see a play in NYC now. I wonder if you could buy tickets on StubHub to see Hamilton?

NYC in Times Square/Broadway district is very safe because it's overrun with tourists and a ridiculous amount of other people and a lot of lights blaring all night. Also, the police are more dangerous than average people in Midtown Manhattan.

Back to Pence. At least he told his kids that this is what freedom means when he was booed by the audience. That proves he has a semblance of a brain unlike Orange Hitler.

1 hour ago, oakville said:

OK, but has the cast been calling out any other politicians that have attended the play over the past few years. ?

Given the popularity of the show, wouldn't the cast have had an opportunity to point out other politicians that they disagree with politically ?

Until Pence arrived every one of the other political figures who've gone to see the play are socially liberal people so the cast wouldn't have any issue with them. It's Pence's ideology and how he inflicts it on others that's the problem.

Also, this is not normal what's happening with their campaign and this transition. Pence hates diversity and Orange Hitler is a sociopath and snake-oil salesman who is trying to turn the US into an oligarchy.

You said you're Canadian correct? If so, think of what's happening here is your unruly US relatives have just tipped over the dining room table during Christmas dinner and you have to pick up the pieces.

Edited November 21, 2016 by maraleia

[SmithW6079]

1 hour ago, maraleia said:

Also, this is not normal what's happening with their campaign and this transition. Pence hates diversity and Orange Hitler is a sociopath and snake-oil salesman who is trying to turn the US into an oligarchy.

The US has been a corporate oligarchy for decades. It is more obvious now. I think Pence is fine with "diversity" as long as it is Christian. He's probably OK with Ben Carson, for example, or Clarence Thomas. It's the gays he hates (no doubt because he's concerned for their souls), and women's reproductive rights. 

[maraleia]

6 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

The US has been a corporate oligarchy for decades. It is more obvious now. I think Pence is fine with "diversity" as long as it is Christian. He's probably OK with Ben Carson, for example, or Clarence Thomas. It's the gays he hates (no doubt because he's concerned for their souls), and women's reproductive rights. 

I would ask anyone in Indiana how his policies have negatively affected them. He is just as bad as all the GOP governors nationwide when it comes to protecting people from financial ruin. People in GOP controlled states are poorer than ones in Dem controlled states.

Also, Trump/Pence want to be crowned King and Prince.

Edited November 21, 2016 by maraleia

[bittersweet4149]

3 hours ago, maraleia said:

... Trump/Pence want to be crowned King and Prince.

Any bets the 'Prince' will pull a Frank Underwood, al la House of Cards?

Edited November 21, 2016 by bittersweet4149

[aradia22]

Quote

Pence said that "First off - my daughter and I and her cousins really enjoyed the show. HAMILTON is just an incredible production and incredibly talented people. It was a real joy to be there. When we arrived we heard a few boos and we heard some cheers. I nudged my kids and reminded them that that's what freedom sounds like. At the end, I did hear what was said from the stage and I can tell you - I wasn't offended by what was said. I'll leave to others whether that was the appropriate venue to say it.

"I do want to say, that the basic element and center of that message is one that I want to address. And that is - I know that this is a very disappointing time for people that did not see their candidate win in this national election. I know that this is a very stressful time for some people. I just want to reassure people that what President-elect Trump said on election night, he absolutely meant from the bottom of his heart. He is preparing to be the President of all of the people of the United States of America. And, to watch him bringing people of diverse views, bringing people together that differed with him strongly, seeing him talk to foreign leaders around the world. I just want to reassure every American, that in the days ahead I'm very confident that they're going to see the President-elect Donald Trump be the President for all the people. We embrace that principle and we're going to work hard to make that principle every day that we serve."

When pushed again by the host if he'd like an apology, Pence responded "I would leave that to others as to whether that was the appropriate venue for that. But, I will tell you Chris, if you haven't seen the show - go to see it. It's a great, great show. I'm a real history buff, so my daughter and I and her cousins really enjoyed it."

I'm in a weird place with Pence. On the one hand, saying that his record and past statements aren't encouraging is an understatement. On the other hand, as with the debate, he comes across as really sensible when you compare him to Trump. At least when it comes to how he talks vs. how he might actually feel or what policies he might advocate, he doesn't seem like the worst. Except when he talks about abortion.

I also feel like he hasn't gotten that much vetting as a VP and so I do want to try to reserve some judgment. Not a lot, mind you, but I haven't gotten a chance to hear him talk that much about what he believes aside from one debate. I guess I'm saying... I'm watching him very closely. Right now he's presenting a good front and if he does reveal the bigotry that I worry is under there then we can handle that. But right now, he's saying the right things for the most part. Though as in the debate, it seems like he's living in a different world than the one the rest of us are in when it comes to Trump. But at least he liked Hamilton. 

[bmasters9]

16 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

And, I'm sorry, but "convincing ourselves that the people in charge are all morally corrupt hateful people is ridiculous" is disingenuous to the nth degree, especially after the way conservatives and Republicans treated Barack Obama in the previous eight years.

Spot-on-- why are conservatives demanding respect for Trump, when all they ever did while Obama was in was judge him (Obama) out the yin-yang?!

[Tara]

Quote

And, I'm sorry, but "convincing ourselves that the people in charge are all morally corrupt hateful people is ridiculous" is disingenuous to the nth degree, especially after the way conservatives and Republicans treated Barack Obama in the previous eight years.

There was nothing disingenuous about my comments.  I am saying exactly what I mean, in a way that hopefully is inoffensive to the people in this room, which is a difficult task considering what I'm saying.

And I have said many times here that I disagreed wholeheartedly and passionately with the treatment Obama received from his opposition, which is why I am so sensitive to going down that path now with Trump.  I thought people were behaving immaturely then, and I think buying into every story and spin now is the same.

[Ceindreadh]

Judging somebody on their prior legislative record isn't exactly 'buying in to the spin'. 

Pence's political history is a matter of record. Maybe he isn't a 'morally corrupt and hateful'  person but many of his policies were. 

[Tara]

Which policies?  I know he is anti-abortion.  While I am pro-choice, I understand that not everyone is.  My mother for one cannot understand what she believes is killing your baby.  In fact, she voted for Trump, not because she liked anything at all about him, but because she's a devout Catholic and every week at mass the priest told everyone to vote for the anti-abortion candidate. Seriously.

I know he is anti-gay. Some people need longer than others to get used to new ideas.  Doesn't make him deserving of being booed or treated badly in any other fashion.  There are many, many people like him in this country who have a right to that opinion, no matter how wrong we think it may be.  Those people are still here, and they vote also.

Reminds me of a quote from Guess Who's Coming to Dinner by Sidney Poitier to his father, who is upset he is marrying a white girl.

Quote

You are 30 years older than I am. You and your whole lousy generation believes the way it was for you is the way it's got to be. And not until your whole generation has lain down and died will the dead weight of you be off our backs!

[NewDigs]

Here's what appears to be a comprehensive and concise rundown of Mikey's belief system.

In Pence-World smoking doesn't kill.

Appears he hates the environment too. Quelle surprise.

[stillshimpy]

24 minutes ago, Tara said:

I know he is anti-gay. Some people need longer than others to get used to new ideas.  Doesn't make him deserving of being booed or treated badly in any other fashion.  There are many, many people like him in this country who have a right to that opinion, no matter how wrong we think it may be.  Those people are still here, and they vote also.

 

 

 

 

A person's sexual identity is not a new idea.  Refusing to accept a fellow human being as a person with all the rights and privileges that I have without question is actually one of the cornerstone principles of our country.  

Yes, someone is entitled to their opinion.  However, they may forever forfeit my respect when it is expressed, as Mike Pence did a long time ago. 

Being  anti-woman is not okay with me.  Being homophobic is similarly not okay with me.  Leaving me aside for a moment though, and this is really key to the sort of treatment Mike Pence and Donald Trump should expect going forward, neither of those hateful mindsets has any place in the office of the president or adjacent to it.   

I'm not going to coddle someone's prejudices and outright bigotry based on it taking some people longer than others to catch on to the fact that they do not, particularly in this instance, have some biblical mandate to discriminate.   The dinosaurs are welcome to trundle on by but they aren't welcome to make laws or enact policies that cater to what is hatefulness.   You are expecting the cast of Hamilton to extend Mike Pence respect that he seeks to deny them.  That, to my mind, is not a reasonable expectation.   Frankly, a man who cannot stand gay people might do well to steer clear of musical theater. 

And beyond all of that,  because it is obvious from space that I am a liberal, more importantly,  Mike Pence has passed damaging laws towards women.  He'd gladly have marriage equality repealed.   If I was standing in front of someone I knew wanted to curtail my civil rights, who would seek to whittle me down to whatever pertinent body parts he believes I possess, as he judges what I am allowed to do to them, fair warning is about to be issued here: I'm a reasonably articulate person and I will not be polite, ever, no matter what,  because I am afraid of giving offense to a bigot.  Mike Pence is a bigot.   

Edited November 21, 2016 by stillshimpy

[inkworks]

19 minutes ago, Tara said:

Which policies?  I know he is anti-abortion.  While I am pro-choice, I understand that not everyone is.  My mother for one cannot understand what she believes is killing your baby.  In fact, she voted for Trump, not because she liked anything at all about him, but because she's a devout Catholic and every week at mass the priest told everyone to vote for the anti-abortion candidate. Seriously.

I know he is anti-gay. Some people need longer than others to get used to new ideas.  Doesn't make him deserving of being booed or treated badly in any other fashion.  There are many, many people like him in this country who have a right to that opinion, no matter how wrong we think it may be.  Those people are still here, and they vote also.

Reminds me of a quote from Guess Who's Coming to Dinner by Sidney Poitier to his father, who is upset he is marrying a white girl.

People are allowed to have any opinion they want.

Don't believe in abortion? Don't have one. Don't believe in gay marriage? Don't have one.

The problem is he wants to pass bills/laws that would make it illegal for everyone. Do their opinions not count?

[backformore]

5 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Here's what appears to be a comprehensive and concise rundown of Mikey's belief system.

In Pence-World smoking doesn't kill.

Appears he hates the environment too. Quelle surprise.

Thank you for that, @newdigs!  Anyone questioning the audience response to Pence at the play, read the article that details his policies.  This is more than just getting used t a new era of gay rights. Pence has a record of ignorance and bigotry.  

[Danny Franks]

7 minutes ago, backformore said:

Thank you for that, @newdigs!  Anyone questioning the audience response to Pence at the play, read the article that details his policies.  This is more than just getting used t a new era of gay rights. Pence has a record of ignorance and bigotry.  

Yeah, he's just a terrible man. Seems surprising for a Republican political figure? Nah, not so much. I just don't know how people can either share the same views or be taken in by men like this. He is every bit of the 'I got mine, so fuck you' GOP stereotype. And his horrible views would be fine, if he was content to hold them and let other people think differently. But no, this man (surprise, surprise!) wants to impose his views on everyone. Because of course he does.

But he's managing to fly under the radar as good cop to Trump's hideous version of Judge Dredd at the moment. He needs a light shone on him just as much as Trump does.

[Tara]

I agree it is a shame that taking care of the environment became political. All the Republicans seem like they're required to believe there's no problem. I've often wondered if that's because Al Gore,  a Democrat,  made that movie.

However, Pence is Republican. And they all share similar beliefs, just like Democrats share basic beliefs.  We are not all going to support these policies, but the Repubs won this time. All I'm saying is I think it's better for us all as a whole not to engage in constant belittling of other people's ideas.  And I'm not accusing anyone, just hoping people remember how unfair it was when it was done to Obama, and that's not a justification to do it to others.  Sorry if I seem preachy. :)

[backformore]

Quote

know he is anti-gay. Some people need longer than others to get used to new ideas.  Doesn't make him deserving of being booed or treated badly in any other fashion.  There are many, many people like him in this country who have a right to that opinion, no matter how wrong we think it may be.  Those people are still here, and they vote also.

Individual citizens can have the opinion that they don't like, or don't approve of, gay people.  But politicians can't disapprove of gay people and pass legislation consistent with that belief while saying that they represent ALL the people of the country.  and if they do, they will be called out on it. Maybe on Broadway, where many members of the LGBT community work.

I guess I don't understand the view that, at a play celebrating our country our diversity and our freedoms, audience members booing a politician for bigotry could be considered wrong.  Nobody disrupted the performance. The audience reacted to Pence's politics before the play. One actor read a statement after the performance pleading for equality and fairness.  

Edited November 21, 2016 by backformore

[stillshimpy]

All I'm saying is I think it's better for us all as a whole not to engage in constant belittling of other people's ideas.

This is the crux of the matter, though, Tara.   No one is trying to break down the door of some sheltered person whose opinion is based more in a lack of exposure than true hatefulness.     They are welcome to hang out, watching Andy Barker reruns or whatever gentle, don't upset the applecart programming that person prefers.  

The problem with Mike Pence isn't his ideas, although those are problematic too they are his right to hold.   It is that Pence would make those ideas laws that would impact my fellow citizens.  Frankly, I no longer have a uterus (the only part of me that Mike Pence recognizes as having worth is gone) so I'm probably some abomination to him as it is.

I hope he never knows a moment's peace until he stops trying to make his cobweb-covered notions into law.  After that?  By all means, enjoy some courtesy.  Until then?  No. 

[Danny Franks]

6 minutes ago, Tara said:

I agree it is a shame that taking care of the environment became political. All the Republicans seem like they're required to believe there's no problem. I've often wondered if that's because Al Gore,  a Democrat,  made that movie.

I think it's simply because Republicans have been in the pocket of oil companies and car manufacturers for so long that they have adopted their own, very partisan, views on climate change for themselves.

Ask an oil exec or the owner of a coal mine if global warming is real? If it hurts them in the pocket, it can't be real.  This is why lobbying is such a poisonous aspect of politics, and American politics in particular. Trump actually pointed that out in his campaign, when he was pretending that he was going to clean all that up, but so far he's just showing that he is as much in the pocket of certain lobbyists as any Republican.

[FuriousStyles]

1 hour ago, Tara said:

I know he is anti-gay. Some people need longer than others to get used to new ideas.  Doesn't make him deserving of being booed or treated badly in any other fashion.  There are many, many people like him in this country who have a right to that opinion, no matter how wrong we think it may be.  Those people are still here, and they vote also.

As a lesbian....I have absolutely no issues with someone who doesnt like gay people.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion as you said.  The issue I have is when people like Mike Pence decide that HIS religion and HIS opinion is more important than MY rights as an American citizen.  I pay taxes just like Mike Pence (and unlike Donald Trump).  I have a right to marry who I want to marry.  I have a right to be left alone and not deemed some kind of societal reject who's only hope is gay conversion therapy.  

I'm not interested in waiting around for Mike Pence and people like him to decide when its appropriate to finally recognize me as a human being deserving of respect and all the rights supposedly given to me by the Constitution.  

If black people waited for "people to get used to new ideas" we'd probably STILL be in chains....one could argue we still are figuratively speaking.  If women waited, we wouldnt be able to vote.  We still arent getting full pay for equal work.  Why?  Because its "taking longer for some people to get used to new ideas".

[Ocean Chick]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 5:31 AM, Tara said:

At least when the anti-Obama people went on their 8-year rant, it was easy to avoid it.  Just don't tune in to Fox News.

No, it wasn't easy to avoid.  I live in the bluest Bay Area of California.  I work in Berkeley - you can't get any bluer than that.  And I couldn't avoid hearing the blather of idiots.  They were on the news ALL THE TIME, spewing their hatred.  They made sure that their antics were such that the mainstream media HAD to cover them and their message.  So if the Tangerine Turd and his peeps have to endure a little backlash, I'm not going to feel sorry for them.

 

Quote

     On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 7:57 AM, Tara said:

They don't know what Mike Pence stands for.  This is all bullshit.

I got into so many arguments with my family during the Obama years.  The ridiculous emails that would be passed around, all with half-truths, some just blatant lies.  The most dangerous ones were those that had just enough truth to make Obama's opposers frightened and angry.  At the end of the day, we all survived Obama's terms as President.

I am preparing myself now for the ridiculous Trump emails.  

We will survive Trump, too.  Maybe.  :)

Gosh, I don't remember Obama threatening to round up Republicans and put them into special "camps" and making Christians register with the Federal Government or promising to deport white immigrants.  Did I miss something in the last 8 years?  I swear I haven't been in a coma!  :)

Edited November 21, 2016 by Ocean Chick

[Ocean Chick]

.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Ocean Chick
double post

[slf]

1 hour ago, Tara said:

All I'm saying is I think it's better for us all as a whole not to engage in constant belittling of other people's ideas.  And I'm not accusing anyone, just hoping people remember how unfair it was when it was done to Obama, and that's not a justification to do it to others.  Sorry if I seem preachy. :)

Ideas, especially harmful ones, aren't sacrosanct. People didn't boo Pence because he has different economic ideas, they booed him because he supports internment camps and conversion therapy. If Pence can't handle the criticism he needs to get another job. 

It's hardly the same as what happened to Obama. Not all of the criticism aimed him was rooted in racism but much of it was. Not the same at all.

[ClareWalks]

Mike Pence has responded to the Hamilton to-do. He had no problem with it (although he questioned the appropriateness of the venue in a slightly shady way). Go figure the Orange Toddler is mortally offended on Pence's behalf, and Pence gives zero shits.

[Spartan Girl]

I don't like Pence, but I'll give him a modicum of credit for at least acting like a g-d adult.

[Shannon L.]

41 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don't like Pence, but I'll give him a modicum of credit for at least acting like a g-d adult.

My first thought when I saw his statement was "This is how politicians are supposed to behave, but why did it take him so long?"  Then it occurred to me that he was helping Trump divert attention away from the Trump University scandal.  He knows how to play the game and is doing it well.  I read somewhere on one of these threads that if Trump were impeached, one of the many scary things about Pence as president is that he can probably fake normal enough to buy another 4 years.   The statement and the delay of it is proof of that. 

[aradia22]

Quote

A person's sexual identity is not a new idea.  Refusing to accept a fellow human being as a person with all the rights and privileges that I have without question is actually one of the cornerstone principles of our country.  

Quote

As a lesbian....I have absolutely no issues with someone who doesnt like gay people.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion as you said.  The issue I have is when people like Mike Pence decide that HIS religion and HIS opinion is more important than MY rights as an American citizen.  I pay taxes just like Mike Pence (and unlike Donald Trump).  I have a right to marry who I want to marry.  I have a right to be left alone and not deemed some kind of societal reject who's only hope is gay conversion therapy.  

I'm not interested in waiting around for Mike Pence and people like him to decide when its appropriate to finally recognize me as a human being deserving of respect and all the rights supposedly given to me by the Constitution.  

If black people waited for "people to get used to new ideas" we'd probably STILL be in chains....one could argue we still are figuratively speaking.  If women waited, we wouldnt be able to vote.  We still arent getting full pay for equal work.  Why?  Because its "taking longer for some people to get used to new ideas".

 

Applause. I come at this partially from a writing perspective. Narratives hold a lot of power. But "it's my right to deny you your rights" is more than just a competing narrative. It is bonkers. It is bonkers that it has been allowed to stand for so long as a valid argument. I will concede that you can debate things like Lilly Ledbetter and the best ways to close inequality gaps and make policy decisions. But legislating BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS beyond making sure that people are guaranteed them is ridiculous.

[Duke Silver]

Yeah, Pence is a different kind of awful, but many have been saying ever since he joined the GOP ticket that in many ways, he's scarier than Trump.

Anecdote: the brother of a guy who works for me moved away from Indianapolis about a year ago.  From what I can tell, dude is a centrist, definitely not a liberal.  He had nothing but (colorfully-put) nasty things to say about Governor Mike Pence when I met him a a couple weeks before the GOP convention.  It was hardly a forgone conclusion that the people of Indiana would've re-elected Pence to the governorship, according to him (have't looked at any polling, so have zero clue if this is even close to the truth)

[maraleia]

5 hours ago, Tara said:

I know he is anti-gay. Some people need longer than others to get used to new ideas.  Doesn't make him deserving of being booed or treated badly in any other fashion.  There are many, many people like him in this country who have a right to that opinion, no matter how wrong we think it may be.  Those people are still here, and they vote also.

Reminds me of a quote from Guess Who's Coming to Dinner by Sidney Poitier to his father, who is upset he is marrying a white girl.

He believes in electroshock "so-called" gay conversion therapy and yes that makes him someone we should call out every time we see him. He is an elected official getting paid by us so we are his boss. I'm a lesbian living in Chicago and if I lived 75 miles away in Indiana my life would be hell and he's set to take his anti-LGBT ideas national. This isn't a joke.

[ari333]

14 minutes ago, maraleia said:

He believes in electroshock "so-called" gay conversion therapy and yes that makes him someone we should call out every time we see him. He is an elected official getting paid by us so we are his boss. I'm a lesbian living in Chicago and if I lived 75 miles away in Indiana my life would be hell and he's set to take his anti-LGBT ideas national. This isn't a joke.

I'm semi old and yet I'll never understand the hate that these people hold. Their bible tells them to hate and or change LGBT?  I thought jesus taught tolerance and love and non judgment. I guess they cherry pick their bible verses. GACK.

"Do unto others....." so many people forget that part. Another pop phrase is, "What would jesus do?" Indeed. Not hate and destroy and try to change people who are born as they are and there's nothing - not a thing - wrong with that.  I cant take much more. I'm not a violent person, but I am so angry.  I'll do whatever I can and call whoever I can call and boycott whoever I need to. And later, vote.... as usual. I'm a straight white chick and Im scared. I cant even imagine how others feel.  

[Duke Silver]

3 minutes ago, ari333 said:

I'm semi old and yet I'll never understand the hate that these people hold. Their bible tells them to hate and or change LGBT?  I thought jesus taught tolerance and love and non judgment. I guess they cherry pick their bible verses. GACK.

"Do unto others....." so many people forget that part. Another pop phrase is, "What would jesus do?" Indeed. Not hate and destroy and try to change people who are born as they are and there's nothing - not a thing - wrong with that.  I cant take much more. I'm not a violent person, but I am so angry.  I'll do whatever I can and call whoever I can call and boycott whoever I need to. And later, vote.... as usual. I'm a straight white chick and Im scared. I cant even imagine how others feel.  

Anyone else here watch The Newsroom?  To steal a line from Will McAvoy, such "Christians" (well...Tea Party nutjobs too) are the American Taliban, as far as I'm concerned.

[tenativelyyours]

3 hours ago, maraleia said:

He believes in electroshock "so-called" gay conversion therapy and yes that makes him someone we should call out every time we see him. He is an elected official getting paid by us so we are his boss. I'm a lesbian living in Chicago and if I lived 75 miles away in Indiana my life would be hell and he's set to take his anti-LGBT ideas national. This isn't a joke.

 

Actually there is an equally heinous agenda in that platform piece he is so proud of having to inserted as part of his deal to be the running mate.  It also would allow parents to force their daughters up to and including the age of 17 to carry a pregnancy via rape or incest to full term.  And it also has a slight twist that in the wording that would call for a ban on all abortions no matter what to include any miscarriage as something that would be investigated to determine the mother being culpable or not.  With the burden of such a matter financially being  on that mother.  He might not have gotten his forced paid funeral for women who have abortions but this is just as bad.

Waving such heavily contrived false equivalence and pretending it is an attempt to be fair is disingenuous at best.  Comparing the false claims of birthers to simply pulling out Pence's own record is like twirling your hair and simpering about all those ungrateful people complaining about being on the train to  Auschwitz when they are getting a free ride.  Yeah they won.  So let's sit back and let them take away the rights they have said in paper, in legal documents in attempts at legislation being passed and pending the intend on taking away.....

Fuck that.  And Fuck them for thinking they can. 

[aradia22]

Quote

Actually there is an equally heinous agenda in that platform piece he is so proud of having to inserted as part of his deal to be the running mate.  It also would allow parents to force their daughters up to and including the age of 17 to carry a pregnancy via rape or incest to full term.  And it also has a slight twist that in the wording that would call for a ban on all abortions no matter what to include any miscarriage as something that would be investigated to determine the mother being culpable or not.  With the burden of such a matter financially being  on that mother.  He might not have gotten his forced paid funeral for women who have abortions but this is just as bad.

ARGH. He has a daughter. Going back to narratives, in stories there are usually two ways things can go. If you find out your child is gay (or identifies as anything other than straight/cis) you either learn compassion and walk back your past positions or you throw them out of the house and cut him/her/them out of your life. Same for unplanned pregnancy, etc. If this were a story, I am not sure which choice Pence would make. I feel like the hopeful narrative tends to be "learn the error of your self-righteous, uncompromising ways" though that too is outdated. In 2016, how are we not past this yet?

[KIMBERLYANN11]

What I want to know about trying to turn back gay marriage, is, who does it help?  It doesn't really help anyone in any way, shape or form.  It only hurts people.  What do you call someone who wants to pass laws that only hurt people and help no one?  Sadist?  Sociopath?  Hateful fucker?  Mike Pence can burn in hell as far as I'm concerned. 

[izabella]

6 hours ago, KIMBERLYANN11 said:

What I want to know about trying to turn back gay marriage, is, who does it help?

It helps the Christians who sleep better at night knowing that "the sanctity of marriage" is safe from the gays, aka, a segment of Pence and Trump voters.  And they can breathe a sigh of relief that they won't be expected to serve gay people in their stores, aka they don't have to sin against god by making gay wedding cakes, people!  They'd also feel better knowing that teenagers across the land won't be encouraged to "turn gay" because liberals made it "cool" to be gay.  My parents live in Indiana - these are real concerns for some people there, truly.

Edited November 22, 2016 by izabella

[windsprints]

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It helps the Christians who sleep better at night knowing that "the sanctity of marriage" is safe from the gays, aka, a segment of Pence and Trump voters.

I know one of these such people and way back when NY was about to legalize same sex marriage she was in an uproar. She was all over facebook about how marriage is ruined, etc.  I asked her to explain how her 2 marriages that ended in divorce (because of her infidelity BTW) preserved the sanctity of marriage over 2 people of the same sex marrying. I kid you not - the reply was "God believes marriage is between a man and a woman and god forgives me."  

IMO its so much bigger than them wanting to turn back gay marriage. They want to turn back equal right all around.  Take away marriage rights, take away abortion rights, don't worry about pesky equal pay. Its about have 1 small class of people be above all others.  Please don't take this as my not thinking marriage for all people is extremely important, I'm not trying to minimize that by bringing up these other issues too.

[Padma]

The scariest thing for me is Trump's complete disregard for the First Amendment. He is trying to discredit the press as a way to silence critics--and is elevating the rightwing fake press like Breitbart and Infowars through Facebook and Twitter to get out his own "reality" to people.

When you are faced with this kind of man--a propagandist and well-documented liar the likes of whom our country has never seen before--freedom of speech is extremely important.

What the cast said to Pence at the end of the show was a respectful exercise of freedom of speech which people were equally free to accept or reject but at least--in the spirit of the play--deserved to be heard.

Pence got it. Trump--because he is a dictator at heart--didn't.  We have to continue to speak out--speak up--and support those who do (and support a free press) because his goal is very clearly to silence dissent--and soon he will have a lot more power to do so.

[ari333]

I'd hate to say it, but I'd love to see rump ousted and humiliated. I'd even take Pence. I wont like it, but I need rump out.

At least I don't think Pence will start WW3. He wont be great, but I don't think he'd hit the nuke button impulsively only  bc someone pissed him off on twitter. (a la rump)

Frankly I'm just praying that humanity and the planet survive this shit.

[KIMBERLYANN11]

On 11/22/2016 at 2:01 PM, windsprints said:

I know one of these such people and way back when NY was about to legalize same sex marriage she was in an uproar. She was all over facebook about how marriage is ruined, etc.  I asked her to explain how her 2 marriages that ended in divorce (because of her infidelity BTW) preserved the sanctity of marriage over 2 people of the same sex marrying. I kid you not - the reply was "God believes marriage is between a man and a woman and god forgives me."  

IMO its so much bigger than them wanting to turn back gay marriage. They want to turn back equal right all around.  Take away marriage rights, take away abortion rights, don't worry about pesky equal pay. Its about have 1 small class of people be above all others.  Please don't take this as my not thinking marriage for all people is extremely important, I'm not trying to minimize that by bringing up these other issues too.

Oh, I don't think you're minimizing it.  I only used marriage equality as an example because, if I turn my brain sideways, twist it like a pretzel, and remove all science and logic, I can see why the anti-choice folks think they're doing some wonderful act of compassion by denying women freedom over their health decisions.  The problem some people have with marriage equality is totally foreign to me.

The women's issues actually impact my family much more as we have no men whatsoever in my immediate family.  All moms and daughters and nieces and sisters.  All the men are deceased or split to get away from the estrogen fest that is our life. (Or more like, were invited to leave the estrogen party). 

(Note - the above sounds horrible,but we didn't actually purge all the men.  It's just a quirk of genetics or something.  On my mom's side - literally all female births for the last four generations. ) 

Edited November 24, 2016 by KIMBERLYANN11
we didn't purge the men

[theredhead77]

On 11/21/2016 at 0:45 PM, Duke Silver said:

Anyone else here watch The Newsroom?  To steal a line from Will McAvoy, such "Christians" (well...Tea Party nutjobs too) are the American Taliban, as far as I'm concerned.

For at least a year I've been saying the irony hurts. The Christian Extremists within America who want to legislate based upon their Bible are the ones screaming the loudest about Sharia law or what the Taliban / ISIS is doing in the Middle East with Islam.

I wouldn't be afraid of Pence getting us blown up via Tweet, but I'm terrified of the laws he and the rest of the TeaPublicans that have taken over our Government are going to implement. The ACLU says they'll sue but I can't see how they'll win or how we'll ever get our liberties back when the people making the decisions are the people who believe this stuff (future SCOTUS justices)

Edited November 24, 2016 by theredhead77

[bmasters9]

16 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

For at least a year I've been saying the irony hurts. The Christian Extremists within America who want to legislate based upon their Bible are the ones screaming the loudest about Sharia law or what the Taliban / ISIS is doing in the Middle East with Islam.

In other words, they judge the Arabs for wanting a Muslim theocracy, while hiding that they themselves (Christian extremists) want a Christian theocracy?! That's what it sounds like to me.

Edited November 24, 2016 by bmasters9

[Moose135]

3 hours ago, bmasters9 said:

In other words, they judge the Arabs for wanting a Muslim theocracy, while hiding that they themselves (Christian extremists) want a Christian theocracy?! That's what it sounds like to me.

They aren't hiding the fact that they want a Christian theocracy.

[bmasters9]

6 hours ago, Moose135 said:

They aren't hiding the fact that they want a Christian theocracy.

That's what it sounded like to me-- I always thought they were.

[slf]

21 hours ago, bmasters9 said:

In other words, they judge the Arabs for wanting a Muslim theocracy, while hiding that they themselves (Christian extremists) want a Christian theocracy?! That's what it sounds like to me.

17 hours ago, Moose135 said:

They aren't hiding the fact that they want a Christian theocracy.

It's a bit of both, in that weird way things often are with Republicans. They're so obvious with their wants, will break out Bible verses when trying to justify their opinions, will go on about God's laws and desires when talking legislation but they absolutely do not want their agenda framed as being the same as those who want Sharia law. They absolutely want a Christian theocracy they just don't want you to call it that or compare it to a Muslim theocracy.

[SoSueMe]

Did anyone else notice the deer in the headlights look on Kevin McCarthy's face as he stood behind Pence after the Obamacare meeting yesterday? He looked like he was hoping that no one was picking up on how well Pence has learned the word salad technique.

 

BTW, just want to get it off my chest, I'm shallow, but man oh man, Pence looks like he is right out of central casting for the part of an SS officer. Well, that and the lego version.