S03.E06: Mad City: Follow the White Rabbit

[formerlyfreedom]

Mad Hatter sets his eyes on his next victims, forcing Jim Gordon to make some tough decisions. Meanwhile, Penguin and Nygma's relationship evolves, and a familiar face comes back into Nygma's life.

 

[Primetimer]

If things keep going the way it looks like they will, this show will have its very first compelling romantic subplot. Monty has questions about 'Follow The White Rabbit'!

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[Lantern7]

"Meanwhile, at Wayne Manor . . . " "Damn it, Bruce, you don't grab someone in that way! Who taught you that?!? And don't tell me Alfred!"

Valerie lives, but probably not for long. Leslie is a canon character (albeit a modern one), while Val serves as a gateway. All we needed were vultures pecking at her throughout the episode, because it was so damn obvious.

Chiklis with super strength? For the third time? Not original, guys. If he turns into Solomon Grundy, I'll forgive that.

What made Smallville bearable at times was that the subtext was kept as subtext. Having Oswald having deep feelings for Ed? It doesn't feel right. On the bright side, I'm thinking the new girl is related to Kris and raring for revenge.

Hi, Barbara. Still halfway crazy? Good.

[NorthstarATL]

If I were Jim I would have told Tetch that I never stopped loving Barbara. She would have killed Jervis (or Tabitha would have) and we'd be done with this storyline!

The Kringle Klone will put a chill on Oswald and Ed's budding relationship.

[Chaos Theory]

Riddle me this: how deep down the rabbit hole will #Gotham go with the Penguin/Nygma relationship?    I loved the scene where Nygma gave Penguin is agenda for both his duties as mayor and underworld kingpin.  The scenes where Penguin was declaring his love to the maid and then to the open chair was all kinds of sad because we all know its not going to end well and the scene with Nygma and the Ms Kringle look alike is just a glimmer of how badly its going to go.

Once again the least interesting part is Jim Gordon.  Honestly when The Mad Hatter was telling him to chose I was screaming (not really) at my tv for him to say he loved Barbara and that Hatter didn't know him at all.  I thought that would have been an awesome way for Jim to at least prove he was smarter (not that he is but still) and win instead of letting one of them shot.  

[Spartan Girl]

Babs, Jim has been over you since season one. Get over yourself.

And gee, Lee, how dare Jim choose his new fuck buddy over you after you abandoned him without telling him about the miscarriage, get engaged to another guy, and generally treat him like shit you scraped off your high heels? Although I'm pretty sure Jim played the Hatter on purpose because Lee was a doctor and could therefore be able to save Val...

Nothing puts the skids on a slash ship like a doppelgänger of a dead girlfriend.

[Danielg342]

Dredge. Pure, utter dredge.

For a minute, when Gordon looked like he got to Jervis Tetch and needled him and prattled him on about his sister...for those couple of precious, electrifying seconds...it could have saved this episode. It would have made all those 45 minutes of posturing and grandstanding and all that fake drama worth it, because, for once, James Gordon could have actually been a hero.

Imagine that. James Gordon actually outwitting someone and showing off the brain we're supposed to believe he would have.

Instead...again, he's outsmarted. Outwitted. Dimwitted. Just so the writers could recycle the "damsel in distress" storyline they had when they didn't know what to do with Barbara.

Seriously, I'm not even sure why villains have this crazy obsession with Jim in the first place...it's not like he's been anything resembling an effective protagonist that constantly outwits his foes. No matter who gets to him, they always find a way to beat him and cause terror to him and whatever loved ones he has in his life.

At this stage, Bullock and Bruce and Oswald- heck, even Barnes- have a much better track record of actually outwitting opponents and bringing them to justice than James Gordon does. Of course, even that is debatable. Still, it goes to show that other characters have been far more effective than Gotham's designated hero.

All this makes me wonder if Gotham should have made Oswald the central character, or even The Joker, turning the origin story into one where a vigilante takes it upon himself to right the city's wrongs because the police are so ineffective. It starts off with good intentions, before the vigilante goes off the rails once the power of his situation gets to his head...necessitating the rise of Batman to clean things up.

Oh well...we've got this. I guess. It's certainly not the first time I thought Gotham was off the rails, nor will it be the last. At this stage, I'm certain the show has no idea what it's doing and is just making it up as it goes along. Sooner or later, we're going to get blatant canon contradictions, if we haven't had that already.

I guess one small point about Nygmobblepot- great to see Chelsea Spack on my screen again, and I wonder if Indian Hill got to her in some way, because that's a bad wig. Other than that- boo on the show for teasing us with Oswald/Ed and deciding they're too chicken to deliver. Because that's the only reason I can think of as to why they're not hooking up.

The Bullock Meter- 3.

Nice heartfelt scene with Jim in the end, but other than that, Bullock did a whole lot of standing around and taking orders. Basically, you could have had "Bullockbot 3000" say his lines and no one would have noticed. A real shame, and a real waste.

Episode Grade: F-. We've reached the bottom of the barrel, folks, though I somehow doubt this show won't surprise me in the future.

[mjc570]

Danielg342:  I totally liked your entire post.  Too bad you beat me to commenting!

That was SO boring.  This was a perfect illustration that a show is only as good as its villain, and Jervis is pretty substandard.  Boring, boring, boring. I don't know if it's bad writing, bad acting or both,  Penguin on the other hand, is always interesting.

I also noticed (and was irritated by) the Lee/Vale thing - if they have to limit women's names to 1 syllable, couldn't they use "Val"? 

Also irritating:  Jim growling his dialogue.  Is Ben Sherman a really heavy smoker, or is that him emoting?

I liked everything about Oswald, from his great interaction with the school boy, to his sweet infatuation with Ed. 

This episode would have been much better with more Harvey and Butch.

[Syndicate]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Babs, Jim has been over you since season one. Get over yourself.

And gee, Lee, how dare Jim choose his new fuck buddy over you after you abandoned him without telling him about the miscarriage, get engaged to another guy, and generally treat him like shit you scraped off your high heels? Although I'm pretty sure Jim played the Hatter on purpose because Lee was a doctor and could therefore be able to save Val...

Nothing puts the skids on a slash ship like a doppelgänger of a dead girlfriend.

The doppelganger of a dead girlfriend is certain to become dead herself, if Pengy has anything to say about it. She's an impending obstacle to the man that he wants, and he ain't havin' it.

[Kathemy]

Good pacing, rather weak narrative, good storyline focus and one good line: "you two were made for each other." Everyone already knew Ozzie was gay or bi, some were just living in denial. Jim making that choice was interesting. The Echo love interest will be short-lived. We'll see where this takes us. This wasn't a winner but it didn't do anything wrong either and was certainly better than the show's low points AKA 'Prisoners'.

[Winter Rose]

I didn't mind the lead up with Jim and the Mad Hatter, I just find Jim's love life one of the least interesting parts of the show. Dizzying logic but I wonder if Jim chose killing Lee with the intent of saving her, because the Mad Hatter would think Jim wouldn't choose to kill the woman he loves, thus the Mad Hatter would shoot the woman Jim didn't name. Although that would be giving Jim too much credit and either way would ruin - or delay - any chance with Lee.

Penguin's certainly not one to be emotionally detached and not that I didn't feel for him, especially in light of Kringle's lookalike (though I like Kringle), but I'd also like to get more insight into his agenda as mayor, as well as Ed's longer term plans. Neither of them seem to me like they should forever be someone's second-in-command.

[Artsda]

"Kill Lee." Wow, wasn't expecting that one, whether he was trying to save her by choosing her or literally chose her that was not what I was expecting. 

So Penguin is in love with Ed? I guess they're really going there.

 This season has been great, been loving these episodes. 

[PBGamer89]

Call me crazy, but I love the angle of going with a romance with Oswald and Edward. I think they should go there, because it works between the two of them. I always thought int he context of the characters, Penguin and Riddler lend themselves well to being in the LGBT group.

I never thought of it at first, but last week's almost kiss was too on the the nose for it to be just something random to be put in.

It's bold without going to far, IMO. Because there's an obvious chemistry between the two. Now just watch them ruin it with this Kristin lookalike. It won't end well for her. I agree with others who say she'll end up dead because she stands in the way of Oswald being with him.

[Sandman87]

Gordon's choice seemed brilliant to me: Make the choice so that crazy hatter guy shoots the one who isn't a doctor, then trust that the doctor can keep her alive. Everyone lives! Very DarkGrittyBatman-ish.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, Jim. You really think that taking a stand by refusing to choose one person to die is going to keep Tetch from killing one or both of them? I mean, really. Did he think Tetch's response would be "Oh, okay, never mind then!"?

Does Tetch know more than we do about Jim's relationship with Valerie? Because from what we've seen, they're boning and that's the extent of it (aside from Valerie constantly trying to use Jim to get more information for her stories). There doesn't seem to be any affection between them, so when Tetch said that she and Lee were the two halves of Jim's heart, I was like uh, really?

I was more interested in the lackey Tetch sent to find Jim. Did he find a guy who was already a total weirdo because that made him perfect for the job? Or did he just find a regular guy and make him into a weirdo with the wardrobe and powdered face and the bleached hair?

[Kathemy]

Doux Reviews: Follow The White Rabbit

Quickie review...

[Danielg342]

My problem with the Batman Gambit is that, for it to work, Jim would have to assume at least one of the following:

• Jervis would question why Jim would betray Lee (no reason why he wouldn't, jilted ex and all)
• Jervis would pick up that it's a feint and decide not to fall for it
• Jervis isn't trustworthy and wouldn't respect Jim's choice.

That's an incredibly risky proposition, and Lee is lucky it worked out in her favour. I grant that Jim was stuck in a no win situation, but I just can't attribute Jim's choice to any kind of genius.

The only face-saving justification I can think of is that Jim might have thought sacrificing Lee- or requesting it- would have sent Falcone after Jervis, but that's already a guarantee after Jervis kidnapped Lee in the first place.

So I just can't see Jim's brilliance here.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Oh, Jim. You really think that taking a stand by refusing to choose one person to die is going to keep Tetch from killing one or both of them? I mean, really. Did he think Tetch's response would be "Oh, okay, never mind then!"?

Gordon had no idea that Tetch would not fire a head shot...so a master plan of "knowing that he knows I know" is unlikely...

[Chaos Theory]

"Going there" when it comes certain relationships is more complicated then others. Cobblepot and Nygma are both villains with a long line of villainy so they can hardly ride off into the sunset together.  The more likely and in fact more interesting scenerio is unrequited love that goes terribly horribly crazy and blows up the good thing they had going.

i still would have picked Barbara as the o e true love of Jim's life.  Just for the WTF on everyone's face.  Plus I am starting to think they deserve each other.  Then again....Babs deserves better. 

[tv echo]

I thought that Jim was trying to save Lee by misdirecting Mad Hatter and that the show wanted Lee to think that he was trying to save Val, so as to set up another roadblock to any reconciliation between Jim and Lee.  Jim knew that Mad Hatter wanted to kill the woman he loved, so he guessed that Mad Hatter was trying to trick him into revealing who he really loved by forcing him to reveal who he wanted to save. So by telling Mad Hatter to kill Lee, he would (in Mad Hatter's mind) be revealing that he loved Val more.

If I'm wrong, then the show did a terrible job of showing Jim as having any feelings for Val beyond being a convenient sex partner and Val as having any feelings for Jim beyond being a source of information. At the same time, I've been under the impression that Jim and Lee still have feelings for each other.

The only drawback I see of Jim telling Mad Hatter that Barbara was his one true love is that Mad Hatter might've then just shot both Val and Lee out of anger (I mean, the guy's crazy), and then gone after Barbara.

I happen to like Jim Gordon, but I'm tired of the trope of forcing the hero to decide between saving two women (or between saving the woman he loves and a good DA, train/bus of people, etc.).

Edited October 25, 2016 by tv echo

[darkestboy]

Well that was tedious. 

I'm actually bored of the Mad Hatter now and having that tea party where Gordon had to choose between Leslie and Valerie was just boring even with the latter getting shot.

At some point, Babs is going to get more to do than just snark, right?

Barnes seems to be showing the effects of Alice's blood now. Good that Bullock picked up on it though.

Oswald loves Nygma, which is nice. Isabella is clearly a trap of some kind, 6/10

[Danielg342]

22 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Jim knew that Mad Hatter wanted to kill the woman he loved

Did he know or did Jim simply make "an educated guess" and hoped he was right? I didn't see anything that indicated to me that Jervis would try to mislead Jim in some way. Jervis is unpredictable...he could've shot Lee and taunted Jim by telling him, "well, now you're stuck with Val!"

[tv echo]

Jervis: "The woman you love is going to die. I just need to figure out which one it is."

Jervis: "I'm determined that you'll live on and suffer without your love as I have. Choose."
Jim: "No. I won't choose."
Jervis: "You will. You will. You'll certainly spill. I'll make it easy for you. On the count of three, instead of telling me who you love, tell me who to kill. Or I shoot them both of them, which would be such a thrill."

[Biggie B]

I composed a previous post and although I clicked 'submit reply,' it never appeared, so trying again...

I wouldn't have cared if both Lee and Valerie died, at this point. Why Lee came back to Gotham - a city that holds horrible memories for her - is beyond belief (other than to have Jim pine for her?). And right now, Valerie is so one-dimensional, simply an opportunistic journalist with little concern for Jim other than as a sex buddy. Which is fine, recreational sex between two willing adults is no big deal, but it only highlights how little emotional connection they have. They barely seem to like each other, yet Hatter considered Valerie half of Jim's heart? Really? The entire story line is too drawn out and boring and I've lost patience with the Mad Hatter. He was interesting for a short period, but now, enough is enough. He's escaped anyway, so perhaps he'll pop up at some point down the road. As for what happens after Valerie recovers, I'm not terribly interested. Jim will try to explain his choice to Lee - awkward! - and let's see if Valerie falls head over heels for Jim, since he chose her.

I missed Bruce and Alfred and Selena.

Don't know what to say about Oswald and Ed. Another love triangle that will go terribly wrong. I actually feel a little sorry for Penguin, he's going to be crushed to smithereens when he finds out that Ed has a new love interest (who may or may not be evil, we'll see).

[JyDanzig]

10 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

Call me crazy, but I love the angle of going with a romance with Oswald and Edward. I think they should go there, because it works between the two of them. I always thought int he context of the characters, Penguin and Riddler lend themselves well to being in the LGBT group.

I never thought of it at first, but last week's almost kiss was too on the the nose for it to be just something random to be put in.

It's bold without going to far, IMO. Because there's an obvious chemistry between the two. Now just watch them ruin it with this Kristin lookalike. It won't end well for her. I agree with others who say she'll end up dead because she stands in the way of Oswald being with him.

Bold was exactly the word that came to my mind.  I can't wait to see where they go with this.

Could the Kristin lookalike be one of Strange's reanimates?  I can't recall where her body ultimately ended up.  (I hate that this show introduced the power to reverse death, but I am hoping for some version of this woman being evil -- the better to drive Ed into Oswald's arms)

Liked the rest of the episode as well.  My only real criticism is that Valerie's intrepid reporter shtick has seriously worn out it's welcome.   Bantering and trying to conduct an interview while imprisoned by a homicidal maniac is not cute or endearing, it's frustratingly stupid.  Help Lee pick the damn locks!

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

I thought that Jim was trying to save Lee by misdirecting Mad Hatter and that the show wanted Lee to think that he was trying to save Val, so as to set up another roadblock to any reconciliation between Jim and Lee.  Jim knew that Mad Hatter wanted to kill the woman he loved, so he guessed that Mad Hatter was trying to trick him into revealing who he really loved by forcing him to reveal who he wanted to save. So by telling Mad Hatter to kill Lee, he would (in Mad Hatter's mind) be revealing that he loved Val more.

If I'm wrong, then the show did a terrible job of showing Jim as having any feelings for Val beyond being a convenient sex partner and Val as having any feelings for Jim beyond being a source of information. At the same time, I've been under the impression that Jim and Lee still have feelings for each other.

The only drawback I see of Jim telling Mad Hatter that Barbara was his one true love is that Mad Hatter might've then just shot both Val and Lee out of anger (I mean, the guy's crazy), and then gone after Barbara.

I happen to like Jim Gordon, but I'm tired of the trope of forcing the hero to decide between saving two women (or between saving the woman he loves and a good DA, train/bus of people, etc.).

I absolutely assumed the same thing, that since Hatter wanted to kill who Jim loved (which he was not subtle about at all) that of course Jim would try to protect Lee by making it seem like he was chosing to save Valerie.  I was more shocked that Lee looked shocked.  That Jim tried to talk to her about it later only doubles down on my first impression.  Sure, Jim likes Vale, but she doesn't mean anywhere near the same as Lee does.  He was willing to risk Tetch delivering a kill shot.  Frankly, that's the one thing that surprised me the most, that he didn't.  But then who would Jim later regretfully apologize to since he's now not going to try and defend himself to Lee? That moment has passed.  

[Kathemy]

5 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

i still would have picked Barbara as the o e true love of Jim's life.  Just for the WTF on everyone's face.  Plus I am starting to think they deserve each other.  Then again....Babs deserves better. 

I know. I mean, she whined at Jim for not including her in his professional life then when it got real she first sabotaged his plan getting herself captured by Falcone, then ran off to her lesbian lover who was in the same profession. She murdered her parents, tried to kill his current girlfriend, took part in plots killing scores of Gotham citizens, kidnapped both him and Leslie and tried to kill him. Clearly she deserves better.

That said, I'm still not sure that's not where this is headed.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Kathemy
ETC

[tanita]

Jim was totally trying to save Lee by naming Vale as his lady love - the Hatter was looking to kill his love and that was a sure way to find out who she is. Also, Lee is a doctor, so she could be far more useful unharmed then if she was the one that got shot - you could be sure she would have died in that case - this was Valerie had two doctors in close proximity.

I so want for Oswald and Edward to get together as I fear that we may get a vengeful story line with them if Nygma just isn't into Oswald, especially with Kristen "Vertigo Kim Novak knockoff" Kringle is back in the picture and he can't take it.

The amount of overdone macho acting I'm getting from Ben McKenzie and Michael Chiklis is overwhelming. But thank God that the millions of "monster" references have stopped for the time being.

Edited October 25, 2016 by tanita

[Traveller519]

Come on, Jim. If you have to make a choice between saving a pediatrician and a news anchor, that's a pretty obvious choice to make. 

[Chaos Theory]

7 minutes ago, Traveller519 said:

Come on, Jim. If you have to make a choice between saving a pediatrician and a news anchor, that's a pretty obvious choice to make. 

The pediatrician who dumped you for a mob bosses son or the news anchor who would dump you if a better story came along.  See insanely obsessive girl who now owns a bar and is cool if you kill a few innocent people might just be your best option.  

[Traveller519]

5 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

The pediatrician who dumped you for a mob bosses son or the news anchor who would dump you if a better story came along.  See insanely obsessive girl who now owns a bar and is cool if you kill a few innocent people might just be your best option.  

I was referring to the the two "stand-ins" he let die in the electric chairs in the warehouse. Lee seems to practice whatever medicine de jour is required, and Valerie looks to be a newspaper reporter.

 

In completely unrelated thoughts...

Though Robin Lord Taylor is openly gay and speaks quite eloquently about it, especially growing up in Iowa, I like how he's playing Penguin as almost asexual. His emotions for Ed are love, basically the same love he felt for his mother which would be the only other love we've really seen him emote. Perhaps briefly Fish early on, or his father last season. That's what's going to make it so much more terrifying when his love for Ed goes unrequited. And we all know how stable Ed can be when he's pushed over the line.

[Gulftastic]

A step down from last week's amazing ep, but not too bad. Jim is still too boring to build entire episodes around.

 

I missed Cat/Bat/Alfred. 

[Lokiberry]

Butch was with Fish when she fixed up that girl to look like Falcone's mother and sent her after him; so he's probably the one behind Isabella. Of course, Penguin knows about that, so if he can get hold of his emotions and use his brain, he should remember. I wonder if this plot is intended to knock Ed down a peg. He's had an awful lot of victories lately where he's been the smartest guy in the room. Maybe it's Penguin's turn to step up, figure things out and be the "hero".

[Perfect Xero]

I really liked this episode. The "save one, the other dies" dilemma is something that superheroes, like Batman, are always able to find a way around to save both. Gordon, who isn't a superhero, is faced with the impossible choice and is forced to actually make it.

15 hours ago, Sandman87 said:

Gordon's choice seemed brilliant to me: Make the choice so that crazy hatter guy shoots the one who isn't a doctor, then trust that the doctor can keep her alive. Everyone lives! Very DarkGrittyBatman-ish.

Right, Gordon seemingly picked the best of the awful options he was left with. Shoot the reporter in the hopes that the doctor can save her. If that's how they choose to play it, anyway.

Though, while Gordon was probably right to leave Barnes out of it, he should have told Harvey, if he had Harvey with them, then the plan with Doc Falcone would have probably worked, even with bullets missing.

[blackwing]

I'm bored.  I don't care for the Mad Hatter character at all.  He's way over the top and uninteresting.

Why couldn't we have more of Fish Mooney?  Would love to see more of her, hope she comes back into town.

[Danielg342]

9 hours ago, tv echo said:

Jervis: "The woman you love is going to die. I just need to figure out which one it is."

Jervis: "I'm determined that you'll live on and suffer without your love as I have. Choose."
Jim: "No. I won't choose."
Jervis: "You will. You will. You'll certainly spill. I'll make it easy for you. On the count of three, instead of telling me who you love, tell me who to kill. Or I shoot them both of them, which would be such a thrill."

This should also be in the Quotes thread...it's nicely written.

That said, I still think this is a crap shoot. What foils the plan is Jervis calling Jim on his bluff and shooting Lee. Jervis isn't exactly trustworthy or predictable, so virtually anything could have happened and I would have brought it.

What this episode lacked was knowing either Jim's or Jervis' thought process. If we had known that, this wouldn't have been just a lark. Unless that is what Jim intended- but, again, it would have been nice to know that.

[FishyJoe]

I'm just not buying the relationship between Valerie and Jim. Maybe it's just Valerie or the acting. She just seems like an emotionless borderline sociopath. There just seems to be no chemistry between them. Or is that intentional? 

One thing that confused me, why weren't Lee or Valerie hypnotized? Why even bother with shackeling them?

[Perfect Xero]

I assume that Jerv wanted Jim to see their real reactions, fear, pleading, look of betrayal when he made his choice, ect ...

[tanita]

I don't think they are selling me a relationship with Jim and Valerie. She finds him interesting and attractive, but is also aware that he has had a pretty emotional break up with his previous chick - now that chick is back in town. I doubt Valerie wants to be someones rebound so she is looking at their thing as a day to day development. Jim is not over Lee. Valerie is attractive and seams interested in him, flirts and they have a somewhat fun dynamic. They eat or have coffee, end up in bed some days and help each other out. I don't think either thinks it's more than that.

I think the problem was in the Mad Hatter - he assumed there was choice to be made - both Lee and Valeria were shocked Jim said Lee's name.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, FishyJoe said:

I'm just not buying the relationship between Valerie and Jim. Maybe it's just Valerie or the acting. She just seems like an emotionless borderline sociopath. There just seems to be no chemistry between them. Or is that intentional? 

One thing that confused me, why weren't Lee or Valerie hypnotized? Why even bother with shackeling them?

For me, it's the actress.  I think Jamie Chung is horrid.  She is awful.  And the problem is that she overacts badly.  She is playing the character like she is the sexiest sexpot that ever sexed and the coolest cucumber that ever cuked.  The worst part is that I really think that she thinks she is an awesome actress, every scene is acted like she is going for that Emmy.

[Lantern7]

I like Jamie. I'm biased because she was hot yet normal on The Real World: San Diego and Real World/Road Rules Challenge: Inferno II, and she probably has the best acting career of any BMP alumni. At the very least, she's second to Dave Giuntoli from Grimm. I can't hold Val against her. Or Sucker Punch.

[Perfect Xero]

I think that Gotham is a show where you steer into the overacting and slam on the gas.

[Dobian]

I hope they wrap up this whole soap opera between Jim and Leslie soon, it's the only buzzkill to an otherwise fine season so far.  I was disappointed how the final scene with Hatter played out.  First of all, why didn't Jim just bring Harvey with him?  And Tetch just knowing that someone would pick up the gun in that room so he loaded an empty clip was so contrived.  Which gets back to just bringing Harvey who already has his own gun on him so problem solved.  And I was really waiting for Jim to do something clever to turn the tables, like maybe grabbing Tetch's gun and using him as a meat shield while he took out his goons?  Instead he was very un-Gordonlike.

Poor Penguin is going to get his heart broken by Nygma, which will make him even more twisted.

A rare episode with no Bruce in it.

[thuganomics85]

Seems like they are going there with Oswald at least being in love with Nygma.  That's an interesting direction.  Of course, now Nygma suddenly bumps into this woman who looks like Miss Kringle, so that is going to cause some problems.  Have to thinks she is a set-up of some kind.  Way too much of a coincidence.

Once again, Tetch outsmarts Jim with ease.  If his entire plan was to have Mario sneak up and get the drop on Tetch, what was the point of it having to be a gun in their basement?  I'm sure Jim could have found some way to just get Mario a gun that he knows actually works.  Why even risk the chance Tetch would have had it covered?  I figured something was going to happen, but I had figured it would be simply a case of Tetch getting to Mario and hypnotizing him, and turning on Jim.  That would have made more sense.

That said, I suspect that Jim said to kill Lee because he knew Tetch wanted to kill the person he loved, so by saying Lee, he was actually saving her.  While he seems to have fun and even enjoy Vickie, he really doesn't seem to be anywhere close to loving her, while he obviously still seems over the moon for Lee.  Added bonus is that he possibly did think it would be wiser to spare the one who has medical background, and might be able to keep the other one alive.  Granted, that would have been for nothing if Tetch did a headshot.  They never learn, do they?

Alice's blood is now giving Barnes strength to bend metal chairs.

It's gotten to the point that anytime they go to the GCPD or a crime scene and there is no Bullock, I automatically ask "Where's Bullock?"  They really have underutilized ever since season one.  Lame.

[Dobian]

So Lee's fiance is going to save Valerie's life, she's going to fall in love with him, he's going to dump Lee for her, and then Lee can get back together with Gordon.  Predictable.

Quote

One thing that confused me, why weren't Lee or Valerie hypnotized? Why even bother with shackeling them?

Yeah, why didn't he just have the two of them point guns at each other.  Would have made the scene much more interesting.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Dobian

[Collinwood]

So everyone thinks NotMissKringle is real except for me.  My first thought was poor Ed, he's seeing things again (like mirrorNygma).  I thought that something would have to derail Oswald and Ed as a power couple and Ed spinning out of control as he did with Gordon would be the thing that did it, but the theory that Butch has created another Mother Falcone is better dramatically. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Collinwood

[Sandman87]

19 hours ago, Dobian said:

A rare episode with no Bruce in it.

And oddly enough, I didn't miss him in the least.

[Kathemy]

12 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Has Nygma given any sign that he is the least bit attracted to Cobblepot?  I just don't see it.  I see them emotionally bonded.

I'm not even sure I see Oswald as sexually attracted to Edward, to be honest. That said I think it's clear he loves him, as much as he can love.

[tanita]

Yeah, I'm not getting a sexual vibe either. It's more of a emotional bond, like soul mates. Someone who is there for him, understands him, is like him, who thinks of his safety and well-being - who loves him as he is. I don't think gender plays any role in it. Even if the sexual part doesn't play a huge role, they could still have a very all-encompassing almost obsessive like connection.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Is Gotham Really Going There With Eddie And Oswald?

If things keep going the way it looks like they will, this show will have its very first compelling romantic subplot. Monty has questions about 'Follow The White Rabbit'!