Donald John Trump: 2016 President-Elect

[Duke Silver]

[Lunata]

Donald Trump led us to believe that there was an intelligence meeting scheduled for today. Then Donald Trump used that non-fact to say that the meeting is moved to Friday. A statement from the intelligence agencies says that the meeting was never scheduled for Wednesday, it has always been slated to happen this Friday. He tried to use that to attack the integrity of the intelligence agencies that will be reporting to him. He's going to war with our intelligence agencies and this is very disturbing. Any problems he has with the analysis of the different intelligence agencies should be done behind closed doors not in front of the general public. He's actually having a very public battle with the CIA, NSA and the FBI.

When I read this tweet yesterday, it was clear that he's actually defending the hackers instead of vilifying them. Essentially he's saying that our intelligence agencies are wrong, even corrupt. That there was no hacking of the election and Russia is innocent of all wrongdoing. The intelligence agencies may be forced to reveal their sources which is not a good thing. The agencies that do intelligence for the US don't really get involved in elections. They are people that are out there actually putting themselves in danger. That's their job and getting involved in the partisanship of politics is not in their agenda.

At 8:25 this morning, Donald Trump tweeted four times in a row. Literally, within seconds, there was already 800 'likes' and more than 300 re-tweets. How is that even possible, I don't know. He tweeted about Julian Assange claiming that the US media is more dishonest than anyone. Julian Assange is a criminal, accused of espionage, and has been accused of sexual assault and rape. He's a man in hiding taking refuge in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. Is Trump serious by trying to get us to believe a criminal hacker and disbelieve all of our news agencies?

[Duke Silver]

[Lunata]

Trump isn't just a person that embellishes the truth or tells a white lie once in a while to get what he wants, Trump is a serial liar. He's absolutely compulsive about lying and in his own mind his lies become truth. Because he hasn't given a press conference in more than 200 days, the press hasn't pushed back at him about his lies. When they do that in print, he just says that they're lying. He'll be doing his first live press conference on January 11th and it's going to be worth watching. Up to now, he's been a guest on the Fox network Hannity show. Of course Sean Hannity has his head up Trump's butt and asked nothing but softball questions. The most troublesome fact is that even though he bold-face lies about something, nobody really seems to care. A seated U.S. President cannot build a relationship with the nation by lying. He will only have the support of those who voted for him because they've been believing all this lies from the start and won't change now.

The truth is, he can't build relationships if we can't trust what he says and mistrust what he does. We can’t make good decisions if we doubt the accuracy of the information that we receive. It’s simple. "Never lie to someone who trusts you, and never trust someone who lies to you.” I read long ago that when the time comes when we're no longer able to tell who is lying and who is truthful, then it's all over.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Lunata

[Duke Silver]

EDIT:  screw it; here are screenshots of the tweet thread linked in this tweet

 

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Duke Silver

[Lana X]

Donald trump: CIA? CIA who? what do they know? whatevs

CIA: *chuckles* Hey Donald, did i ever tell you how great you were? how masculine your hands are? they turn us on

- A day later -

Donald Trump: CIA terrific. so smart! so much noledge! they know big things! bigly! #MAGA

Putin: VUT IS happening? this was not de plan

[DeLurker]

1 hour ago, Lunata said:

Trump isn't just a person that embellishes the truth or tells a white lie once in a while to get what he wants, Trump is a serial liar. He's absolutely compulsive about lying and in his own mind his lies become truth. Because he hasn't given a press conference in more than 200 days, the press hasn't pushed back at him about his lies. When they do that in print, he just says that they're lying. He'll be doing his first live press conference on January 11th and it's going to be worth watching. Up to now, he's been a guest on the Fox network Hannity show. Of course Sean Hannity has his head up Trump's butt and asked nothing but softball questions. The most troublesome fact is that even though he bold-face lies about something, nobody really seems to care. A seated U.S. President cannot build a relationship with the nation by lying. He will only have the support of those who voted for him because they've been believing all this lies from the start and won't change now.

The truth is, he can't build relationships if we can't trust what he says and mistrust what he does. We can’t make good decisions if we doubt the accuracy of the information that we receive. It’s simple. "Never lie to someone who trusts you, and never trust someone who lies to you.” I read long ago that when the time comes when we're no longer able to tell who is lying and who is truthful, then it's all over.

Bold 1 -Trump exists in a fact-free and truth-free vacuum.  Surprisingly, a lot of the Republicans and the media don't seem to care.

Bold 2 - Live tweeting?

Bold 3 - I've seen no evidence he is trying to build a relationship with us.  He has done the exact opposite of draining the swamp, the platform he ran on, so he's not even trying to pretend to maintain the "relationship" with the people who supported him.

He was proclaiming voter irregularities prior to his win and claimed a couple of million illegal votes after the final counts came out on the actual voting numbers.  He was perfectly willing to deride the US election procedures and say it was manipulated against him.  Yet he refuses to believe there was foreign involvement in the hacking to try to sway the election?  In his own words - SAD!

Edited January 4, 2017 by DeLurker
Forgot a bit o'snark

[sistermagpie]

57 minutes ago, Lunata said:

He'll be doing his first live press conference on January 11th and it's going to be worth watching.

I love how he can't stop talking like he's on reality TV and desperate for ratings. "This week on Presidenting: The Commander-in-Chief stands in front of the lying media and things will never be the same." (shots of reporters looking shocked) "You won't want to miss it!" #Lyingpress #PresidentingNBC

[Lana X]

whatever. his first press conference will be him being like "look at my russian american friend over there. *donald runs away while the cameras turn off him*

later that day

Media: Trump holds major press conference! 

America: uh...wait.....whaaat?

Media: hehehehe. made ya look!

[random chance]

6 minutes ago, Lana X said:

Media: Trump holds major press conference! 

America: uh...wait.....whaaat?

Media: hehehehe. made ya look!

Boy if that doesn't just about sum up how this whole tragedy happened.

[NutMeg]

16 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

And may all of the photographers there capture him from his worst angles (wait, is there a "good" angle on that orange mess?). 

The good angle is the one that photoshops his octuple chin.

15 hours ago, BBDi said:

She'd be a much better president too, no doubt. 

She (Martha Stewart) could never have been president - hello, she's a woman! The first time she would have acted 1% as badly as Trump, she would have been raked on coals and shouted at to go back to the kitchen.

[izabella]

14 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

She (Martha Stewart) could never have been president - hello, she's a woman! The first time she would have acted 1% as badly as Trump, she would have been raked on coals and shouted at to go back to the kitchen.

She's already been to prison once for insider trading.  I think that qualifies her for Trumputin's cabinet.

[Lana X]

22 minutes ago, random chance said:

Boy if that doesn't just about sum up how this whole tragedy happened.

better yet, morning joe will be like "we knew that was going to happen. Mika, he called you just before....

mika: I know. we're so connected. *eye rolling* *eye rolling* *eye rolling* *eye rolling *eye rolling *eye rolling *eye rolling*

joe: Mika, stop!

Mika: I can't! *eyeballs get stuck*

Joe: well, I'll have to cancel our meeting tonight with the president.

[Padma]

39 minutes ago, izabella said:

She's already been to prison once for insider trading.  I think that qualifies her for Trumputin's cabinet.

No, he likes crooks who weren't captured.

[Just joking re: Martha, whom they nabbed for obstruction, not insider trading. And vis Trump, of course, she's got more brains and integrity in her little finger than Trump has in all twenty of his eetsy teensy fingers and toes. ]

[candall]

4 hours ago, Duke Silver said:

Unless the Intelligence Community DOES know what his team's role was.  In which case, DT and the IC people sitting in a room together is going to be, let's say, just a little bit awkward.

 

I doubt the IC is planning to head into this particular meeting armed with a sheaf of speculation.  If they've ever made sure they had the facts nailed down about who did what, and the proof thereof, it's going to be now.  So, hmm, how can DT prepare for an hour of information he doesn't want to hear--stuff that might not exactly sound like "You Really ARE The Best!"?  How to avoid being uncomfortable or possibly even embarrassed?  Well, he could start denigrating them all well in advance via Twitter--including putting the word "Intelligence" in quotation marks.  I guess, for him, that automatically begins to morph into the foundation of the "new truth" and makes it easier to just blow a raspberry in their faces regardless of whatever they say.

 

This guy!  In two weeks, all these Intelligence people are only answerable to him and him alone.  WHY is he working so hard to convince the public they're collectively incompetent?   Plus, pissing these guys off is stupid, unless it's an unavoidable part of achieving a larger objective, like insulating himself against any future leaks by invalidating the source. . .

Is it my tin foil hat making me think someone out there has the evidence that would bring down the whole T Empire?

.

Edited January 4, 2017 by candall
I'm talking and I can't shut up!

[Duke Silver]

[Padma]

4 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

Great!

And the fact that they won't even entertain the possibility that it was the result of a Russian hack--when that makes sense given the skill level and intent--seems more like "not wanting to get caught" than really trying to honestly figure out "where did the information come from?" 

[Duke Silver]

I know several posters here have had exchanges about Trump's mental acuity (or lack thereof), noting family medical history of Alzheimer's (I think?).  Others are noticing as well.

[sistermagpie]

41 minutes ago, candall said:

If they've ever made sure they had the facts nailed down about who did what, and the proof thereof, it's going to be now. 

I think part of the thing with this sort of issue, though, is that the IC doesn't always have facts nailed down. They're not the FBI where they necessarily have proof. So, like, the chances are it's not like they have a thing where they can say "this hack came from Russia--it's the only place these keystrokes could be made!" and that gives anyone grounds to reject it. It's possible what they would have instead is the actual hacking stuff plus a context of their many years of watching Russia's patterns and style of doing things etc. and, of course, the facts of who benefited and how and why.

But since Trump's not going into the meeting in good faith and will probably accept nothing less than Putin going on TV and saying "Yes, I did it because Trump is my puppet" he's just going to translate it into gobbledygook and say they had nothing. And frankly, even if Putin did that he'd still do it. We've seen how little the truth means to him, so even acting as if the IC could prove this to him is unlikely.

[Guest]

Hey everybody! Great news! Millions of Americans will be uninsured ASAP according to Mike Pence! This is especially great news for a friend of mine with cancer who gets her health insurance through the ACA exchange. She voted for Trump! And she's gonna get everything he promised to her -- but she'll be OK without insurance and her cancer because we she doesn't have to worry about Hillary's email server anymore. 

And just for fun, see if you can count the POC in that room. (Hint: all of the five women in there are white.) Spoiler alert: the answer is ZERO. 

[izabella]

22 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think part of the thing with this sort of issue, though, is that the IC doesn't always have facts nailed down. They're not the FBI where they necessarily have proof. So, like, the chances are it's not like they have a thing where they can say "this hack came from Russia--it's the only place these keystrokes could be made!" and that gives anyone grounds to reject it. It's possible what they would have instead is the actual hacking stuff plus a context of their many years of watching Russia's patterns and style of doing things etc. and, of course, the facts of who benefited and how and why.

But since Trump's not going into the meeting in good faith and will probably accept nothing less than Putin going on TV and saying "Yes, I did it because Trump is my puppet" he's just going to translate it into gobbledygook and say they had nothing. And frankly, even if Putin did that he'd still do it. We've seen how little the truth means to him, so even acting as if the IC could prove this to him is unlikely.

Except the FBI came out last week and confirmed that Russia hacked, so even that last shred of deniability is no longer there for Trumputin.  He just won't admit it because, IMO, his team is involved.

[Lana X]

fine. get rid of obamacare. whatever

but what is the better option? they dont even have a plan B. is anyone going to ask them about that? people who are severely sick may want a truthful answer

getting shot in the head would be less painful than trying to sort through all their damn bullshit

Edited January 4, 2017 by Lana X

[KerleyQ]

13 hours ago, Lunata said:

Riddle

What does Donald Trump and Charles Manson have in common?  They're both nuts.

I saw a tweet yesterday saying "I saw Charles Manson was trending and assumed he was being appointed to a position in Trump's administration."  

3 hours ago, Lunata said:

Donald Trump led us to believe that there was an intelligence meeting scheduled for today. Then Donald Trump used that non-fact to say that the meeting is moved to Friday. A statement from the intelligence agencies says that the meeting was never scheduled for Wednesday, it has always been slated to happen this Friday. He tried to use that to attack the integrity of the intelligence agencies that will be reporting to him. He's going to war with our intelligence agencies and this is very disturbing. Any problems he has with the analysis of the different intelligence agencies should be done behind closed doors not in front of the general public. He's actually having a very public battle with the CIA, NSA and the FBI.

When I read this tweet yesterday, it was clear that he's actually defending the hackers instead of vilifying them. Essentially he's saying that our intelligence agencies are wrong, even corrupt. That there was no hacking of the election and Russia is innocent of all wrongdoing. The intelligence agencies may be forced to reveal their sources which is not a good thing. The agencies that do intelligence for the US don't really get involved in elections. They are people that are out there actually putting themselves in danger. That's their job and getting involved in the partisanship of politics is not in their agenda.

At 8:25 this morning, Donald Trump tweeted four times in a row. Literally, within seconds, there was already 800 'likes' and more than 300 re-tweets. How is that even possible, I don't know. He tweeted about Julian Assange claiming that the US media is more dishonest than anyone. Julian Assange is a criminal, accused of espionage, and has been accused of sexual assault and rape. He's a man in hiding taking refuge in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. Is Trump serious by trying to get us to believe a criminal hacker and disbelieve all of our news agencies?

I don't get how the entirety of the population, including the media (seriously, media, what the hell??), isn't freaking the fuck out over the fact that the Pres-Elect is actively undermining and picking a fight with our Intelligence and Security agencies.  He's also undermining our highest law enforcement agency.  Isn't he the same rotting mango who ran on a heavily pro-law enforcement stance?  

3 hours ago, Lunata said:

Trump isn't just a person that embellishes the truth or tells a white lie once in a while to get what he wants, Trump is a serial liar. He's absolutely compulsive about lying and in his own mind his lies become truth. Because he hasn't given a press conference in more than 200 days, the press hasn't pushed back at him about his lies. When they do that in print, he just says that they're lying. He'll be doing his first live press conference on January 11th and it's going to be worth watching. Up to now, he's been a guest on the Fox network Hannity show. Of course Sean Hannity has his head up Trump's butt and asked nothing but softball questions. The most troublesome fact is that even though he bold-face lies about something, nobody really seems to care. A seated U.S. President cannot build a relationship with the nation by lying. He will only have the support of those who voted for him because they've been believing all this lies from the start and won't change now.

The truth is, he can't build relationships if we can't trust what he says and mistrust what he does. We can’t make good decisions if we doubt the accuracy of the information that we receive. It’s simple. "Never lie to someone who trusts you, and never trust someone who lies to you.” I read long ago that when the time comes when we're no longer able to tell who is lying and who is truthful, then it's all over.

I saw someone talking about Trump's lies back during the campaign.  As they pointed out, most of his lies aren't even strategic - meaning he tells lies that have very little upside for him if they're believed and which are easily proven false.  The sad part is, his cult members have proven that "strategic" lying measurement completely useless, because they do believe everything he says and completely disregard even the easy and obvious proof that he's lying.  So his lies have all of the upside and none of the risk.  Of course, that's from his point of view.  To the rest of the country (hell, the rest of the world), his lies are nothing but downside and risk.  

45 minutes ago, Padma said:

Great!

And the fact that they won't even entertain the possibility that it was the result of a Russian hack--when that makes sense given the skill level and intent--seems more like "not wanting to get caught" than really trying to honestly figure out "where did the information come from?" 

Assange is covering his ass, and Trump's given him the playbook to do so.  The media and Trump's supporters don't care about truth, logic, or what you've said and done before that contradicts what you're saying and doing now.  

[Padma]

16 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Hey everybody! Great news! Millions of Americans will be uninsured ASAP according to Mike Pence! This is especially great news for a friend of mine with cancer who gets her health insurance through the ACA exchange. She voted for Trump! And she's gonna get everything he promised to her -- but she'll be OK without insurance and her cancer because we she doesn't have to worry about Hillary's email server anymore. 

And just for fun, see if you can count the POC in that room. (Hint: all of the five women in there are white.) Spoiler alert: the answer is ZERO. 

I keep wondering about this--the people who are in the middle of serious and expensive treatments for life-threatening illnesses (or have children who are) and now, in addition, have to worry about health care coverage and cost.

Why are these Republicans like Pence so het up, so enthusiastic and PROUD, about getting rid of medical care for 20 million people?  (And lets not get me started on the idiots who voted for them without anything for the "replace" part except "erase state lines"--which is just f-ing stupid.

(And I *love* how they keep talking about their mandate from the "American people" as if the 300 million Americans who didn't vote for them don't matter at all.)

Edited January 4, 2017 by Padma

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, Lana X said:

but what is the better option? they dont even have a plan B. is anyone going to ask them about that? people who are severely sick may want a truthful answer

Honestly, Alan Grayson summed this up years ago. The Republican plan is: Don't get sick. If you do get sick, die quickly.

Republicans pretended he said they were telling people to die, but he was being perfectly accurate. The only way to not be bankrupt in their plan is to either be healthy, or be dead. They themselves don't care about the sick people--and why should they, since the people who vote for them think that keeping somebody else from having healthcare is far more important than having assurance they'd have it themselves. Of course, if they find themselves in need of it they'll certain yell and sue and demand that they get it.

[cleo]

11 minutes ago, Padma said:

Why are these Republicans like Pence so het up, so enthusiastic and PROUD, about getting rid of medical care for 20 million people? 

Yeah this. I'm Canadian, and no expert on American politics but to an outsider this is how it comes across and it is completely baffling. I get that ACA is not perfect and could be fixed/ improved in diff ways. But that is not really what the Republicans want. 

It is just completely baffling.

I've always lived knowing if I got sick i could go to the doctor and get good care. It's unimaginable to me to not have that. I am aware of how lucky I am overall. It's really painful and sad watching everything happening there. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by cleo

[rcc]

9 minutes ago, Padma said:

I keep wondering about this--the people who are in the middle of serious and expensive treatments for life-threatening illnesses (or have children who are) and now, in addition, have to worry about health care coverage and cost.

Why are these Republicans like Pence so het up, so enthusiastic and PROUD, about getting rid of medical care for 20 million people?  (And lets not get me started on the idiots who voted for them without anything for the "replace" part except "erase state lines"--which is just f-ing stupid.

(And I *love* how they keep talking about their mandate from the "American people" as if the 300 million Americans who didn't vote for them don't matter at all.)

Exactly! No mention of an alternative plan. Just cancel the whole thing and those who are paying their premiums and are sick just have to worry about their healthcare. The bastards don't care and their main concern is the CEOs of the insurance companies who want to keep making money for their for-profit companies and their own large bonus checks.

2 minutes ago, cleo said:

Yeah this. I'm Canadian, and no expert on American politics but to an outsider this is how it comes across and it is completely baffling. I get that ACA is not perfect and could be fixed/ improved in diff ways. But that is not really what the Republicans want. 

It is just completely baffling.

I've always lived knowing if I got sick i could go to the doctor and get good care. It's unimaginable to me to not have that. I am aware of how lucky I am overall. It's really painful and sad watching everything happening there. 

If I lived further to the north where my grandfather was born I would also be a Canadian like yourself and baffled as well. Now I am just mad that this country has a president-elect and vice president-elect like the two of them.

[izabella]

41 minutes ago, Lana X said:

fine. get rid of obamacare. whatever

but what is the better option? they dont even have a plan B. is anyone going to ask them about that? people who are severely sick may want a truthful answer

getting shot in the head would be less painful than trying to sort through all their damn bullshit

Death.  Plan B is disease and death.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, cleo said:

I've always lived knowing if I got sick i could go to the doctor and get good care. It's unimaginable to me to not have that. I am aware of how lucky I am overall. It's really painful and sad watching everything happening there. 

That's odd because we were constantly told that Canadians "ration" health care, your healthcare sucks and you die waiting for testing and that if you need to see a specialist you have to wait forever to get one as opposed to the American health care system where you can get all your medical testing on demand apparently. I'm sure my friend (not the one with cancer who voted for Trump to take away her insurance) who has had neurological symptoms since October thinks that "on demand" specialist appointments means the three months she's been waiting to see a neurologist is super quick! 

My god. We are so doomed. 

[Padma]

And bankruptcy.

I just saw a couple interviewed in Penn. on MSNBC. They said their premiums have been rising astronomically. They voted for Trump and can't wait for ACA to be repealed.  As usual, no one asked the question I wanted to know: "Do you get a govt subsidy for your premium?"  That's a big part and many times these whiners refuse to buy insurance from the exchange because they hate Obama.

So that's always the first thing to know--"subsidy?"  There are still plenty of problems with it--but many problems that it has successfully addressed already.  Why do these people think starting from scratch is this marvelous idea? Why not just save time and money and fix what we have?  (Oh, I know. Because Repubs. are all about getting profits fully back to insurers. They don't give a damn about actually providing affordable, quality health care for Americans.) 

I didn't see the whole interview but apparently they were also complaining about not getting Medicaid. (? -- They said their premium was "$1400 a month with a $10,000 deductible".  Medicaid is for low-income people so that didn't make sense given that premium.  One of the guests pointed out (to the host, not the couple, who were on tape) that the conservatives on the SC had said its up to governors if they wanted to expand Medicaid or not.

So the Republican governor of Pennsylvania had said he didn't want to.  It was HIS fault, not Obama's.

Yet, for all their woes, they blamed Obama and voted Republican.

[fishcakes]

https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/816718953158496257

[backformore]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

Except the FBI came out last week and confirmed that Russia hacked, so even that last shred of deniability is no longer there for Trumputin.  He just won't admit it because, IMO, his team is involved.

Trump isn't even denying it.  He saying you can't PROVE it was the Russians.  

I think he knew about it all along, and trusted his friend Putin, who said, don't worry, they'll never be able to prove it was us.

Remember this is Trump who during the campaign denied knowing Putin, even though in 2013, he said that he had a very good relationship with Putin.

[Lana X]

hmmm.....maybe the evidence that there was hacking should be released.

otherwise, it's gonna be "they said/I said..."

fake news/real news

we all need a reality check. 

[KerleyQ]

3 hours ago, Padma said:

I keep wondering about this--the people who are in the middle of serious and expensive treatments for life-threatening illnesses (or have children who are) and now, in addition, have to worry about health care coverage and cost.

Why are these Republicans like Pence so het up, so enthusiastic and PROUD, about getting rid of medical care for 20 million people?  (And lets not get me started on the idiots who voted for them without anything for the "replace" part except "erase state lines"--which is just f-ing stupid.

(And I *love* how they keep talking about their mandate from the "American people" as if the 300 million Americans who didn't vote for them don't matter at all.)

I replied to Pence with "since you're so happy about this, please explain to me how my Mom, who has a chronic heart problem covered by the ACA, will survive."  Of course, I could have also mentioned the small mercy that my cousin, who lost her child to cancer this year, didn't also end up losing her home, because she had coverage for her children under the ACA.  

2 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

That's odd because we were constantly told that Canadians "ration" health care, your healthcare sucks and you die waiting for testing and that if you need to see a specialist you have to wait forever to get one as opposed to the American health care system where you can get all your medical testing on demand apparently. I'm sure my friend (not the one with cancer who voted for Trump to take away her insurance) who has had neurological symptoms since October thinks that "on demand" specialist appointments means the three months she's been waiting to see a neurologist is super quick! 

My god. We are so doomed. 

I was laughing at my uncle the other day, "explaining" to one of my aunts about how the citizens of the countries who have national healthcare (and he specifically mentioned Canada and England) loathe their system, can rarely get care, and, when they do, it's substandard.  He swears up and down "we vacation in Canada all the time, and we always make it a point to get out and speak to as many locals as we can to ask them about the system.  And I've always been fascinated with England, so I research and reach out to people who live there to get their take."  (BTW, if you knew my uncle, this would be even more ridiculous than it reads without knowing him.)  Meanwhile, it takes months here to get in with specialists, and I live in the Chicago area, so I can't even imagine what it must be like for people in less populated areas who need very specific specialists.  

And, here, you're constantly at the whim of the insurance companies.  For example, my son is a type 1 diabetic.  He was diagnosed 7 years ago.  In those 7 years, we've had to switch glucose meters 7 times and insulin brands 4 times, all because of the insurance company's changing deals with manufacturers.  We constantly have to have his doctor's office do battle with the insurance company to get adequate supplies of insulin and test strips.   I've also had to switch medications for a chronic health issue multiple times.  And, now, they won't even work with CVS any more, so I have to find a different pharmacy, which will be a huge pain for many reasons, including that I have to clear any changes in pharmacy with my pain clinic before they'll prescribe for me there.  So, if it takes me a while to figure out which non-CVS pharmacy in our area works best for us, I'll have to keep getting approval from the clinic to try out various locations.  

The only people who benefit from the system the GOP would like to stick with are the insurance companies.  They made damn sure they undermined the ACA (with huge assists from the GOP in the states where they held enough control to affect it) so that people would believe that the problem was the ACA when, really, the problem is the same problem that existed before the ACA - insurance companies are greedy and don't give even a half a fuck if we stay healthy or are able to afford to stay healthy.  

Who knew, a year ago, that Rand Paul was the hero we all need?  

Edited January 4, 2017 by KerleyQ

[MulletorHater]

15 hours ago, Lunata said:

Riddle

What does Donald Trump and Charles Manson have in common?  They're both nuts.

That, and they both have batshit crazy stans who will fight--and kill--to the death for them.

Given some of the unsavory characters that Drumpf has relationships with, including guys who are mobbed up and felons, if he told me that he never met Charles Manson, I would have to check every source imaginable to ensure he's telling the truth.  Logically, I know there's no way he could know Manson, but he lies so much when it comes to claiming that he doesn't know or has never met certain people, I have no reason to believe anything that comes out of his worm-filled pie hole.

[Bastet]

11 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

The only people who benefit from the system the GOP would like to stick with are the insurance companies.  They made damn sure they undermined the ACA (with huge assists from the GOP in the states where they held enough control to effect it) so that people would believe that the problem was the ACA when, really, the problem is the same problem that existed before the ACA - insurance companies are greedy and don't give even a half a fuck if we stay healthy or are able to afford to stay healthy.  

Exactly.  I buy my own insurance, and I had to go through a whole appeals process way back when I first bought the plan, because I was initially denied for pre-existing conditions (conditions not much more serious than having sneezed before, seriously).  When the ACA was implemented, I could have switched to a different plan in compliance with the ACA and - as is true for most people, despite the hysterical reports making it seem like the opposite was the norm - it would have given me equal or better coverage for less money (nothing to do with subsidies, as I don't qualify for them; just on its own, it costs less per month).  However, since congressional Republicans immediately started hollering to the heavens that their new sole purpose in life was to repeal the ACA, I was afraid to -- let's see, I've long been grandfathered in to this existing plan, so while now it doesn't comply with the ACA (basically meaning I still have co-pays for everything), I can't have it yanked away from me for, you know, using it and thus tallying up more "pre-existing conditions."  If I drop it and switch to an ACA-compliant plan, I save money every month (and not a small chunk of change, either) and get better coverage, because some services will no longer require a co-payment.  But if Republicans get their way and repeal the ACA, allowing insurers to once again deny people plans because of pre-existing conditions, I can't get back into that plan I gave up; I will be completely screwed, unable to get insurance, no matter how much I'm willing to pay for it.  So, I'd better hold onto my existing plan until the election, even though it costs more; after that, if we still have a Democrat in the Oval Office, maybe this "Repeal!" furor will die down enough that I can feel safe switching.

So, I've paid thousands more per year, and will now have to keep doing so -- in perpetuity, perhaps.  And my premiums - for this plan that has nothing to do with the ACA - keep going up every year, just as happened every year before the ACA existed.  Because that's what insurance companies do -- raise your rates every year (because you get older every year).  The ACA is not the cause of it. 

That repealing a law that prohibits insurers from denying coverage to those who need it most (and to virtually anyone, on the pretext of "pre-existing conditions," which basically everyone has if you define it broadly enough, and they do) and provides subsidies for those below a certain income level so that tens of millions of people who previously couldn't qualify for and/or afford health insurance now have it is a mere thought, let alone a goal, let alone priority number one for Trump, Ryan, et al. -- it's disgusting!  The ACA is not socialized medicine (unfortunately; we'll never have true healthcare reform in this country until we have single-payer national health insurance ["Medicare for all"]), it's a goddamned Republican plan that keeps the profit-driven private insurance system in place and simply removes two major obstacles to accessing that coverage.  All this is costing me is money.  It will cost some people their lives. 

[Lunata]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Honestly, Alan Grayson summed this up years ago. The Republican plan is: Don't get sick. If you do get sick, die quickly.

Republicans pretended he said they were telling people to die, but he was being perfectly accurate. The only way to not be bankrupt in their plan is to either be healthy, or be dead. They themselves don't care about the sick people--and why should they, since the people who vote for them think that keeping somebody else from having healthcare is far more important than having assurance they'd have it themselves. Of course, if they find themselves in need of it they'll certain yell and sue and demand that they get it.

You touched on the main point here. Health insurance companies spent a lot of money lobbying to make sure they’d profit from the eventual system put into place with the ACA. Yet, one of the major emerging challenges to Obamacare now is that health insurance companies are reluctant to participate. In fact, they’ve even spent millions of dollars trying to defeat the ACA. So, why are they opposed to this supposed gift to them? Insurance is a bet you make with a large company that something bad will happen to you. It’s a strange bet, because both you and the company hope you’ll lose. Just to make sure you’ll lose, insurance companies hire high-priced financial talent to guarantee their odds of winning; they know exactly how to rig the game.

So here's the pill that the insurance companies had to swallow. People that signed on for Obamacare were SICK! Imagine that, sick people wanting healthcare. The insurance companies were overwhelmed with people with advanced illnesses that demanded multi-leveled health care. If you don’t qualify for Medicare or Medicaid, insurance companies are a lot less interested in you. It's like saying that automobile insurance companies only want to insure good drivers with no accidents. But people are required to have auto insurance 'just in case' they need to use it because some knucklehead on their cellphone happens to slam into the back of their car. The auto insurance will cover the costs of repair either by the one hitting the car or the car being hit. But the insurance company will most certainly raise your premiums and possibly cancel your insurance completely.

It's the same with Obamacare, you'll get treated by a doctor or hospital of your choice even if you have a pre-existing condition and you'll pay plenty for it every month. But now, if the Republicans repeal the ACA, there will be less insurance companies that will want to participate unless they can sign up perfectly healthy people with no pre-existing conditions. Then they'll gladly take your monthly insurance payment and use it to pay their lobbyists in Washington with your cash. They're happy, you just saved them money they can use to get more regulations put into law that favor them. But warning, don't dare get sick or try to sign up with a serious illness. You're expendable and they'd prefer you die and save the government lots of money.

[Ms.Moon]

The GOP will replace Obamacare with prayer.  You can pray you won't get sick and if you have a preexisting condition you can try praying it away, this is a Christian nation don't you know, Jesus will be the only health care provider you will ever need.  Unless you are a GOP congressional representative then you get taxpayer subsidized healthcare forever.  

[MulletorHater]

2 hours ago, Padma said:

And bankruptcy.

I just saw a couple interviewed in Penn. on MSNBC. They said their premiums have been rising astronomically. They voted for Trump and can't wait for ACA to be repealed.  As usual, no one asked the question I wanted to know: "Do you get a govt subsidy for your premium?"  That's a big part and many times these whiners refuse to buy insurance from the exchange because they hate Obama.

So that's always the first thing to know--"subsidy?"  There are still plenty of problems with it--but many problems that it has successfully addressed already.  Why do these people think starting from scratch is this marvelous idea? Why not just save time and money and fix what we have?  (Oh, I know. Because Repubs. are all about getting profits fully back to insurers. They don't give a damn about actually providing affordable, quality health care for Americans.) 

I didn't see the whole interview but apparently they were also complaining about not getting Medicaid. (? -- They said their premium was "$1400 a month with a $10,000 deductible".  Medicaid is for low-income people so that didn't make sense given that premium.  One of the guests pointed out (to the host, not the couple, who were on tape) that the conservatives on the SC had said its up to governors if they wanted to expand Medicaid or not.

So the Republican governor of Pennsylvania had said he didn't want to.  It was HIS fault, not Obama's.

Yet, for all their woes, they blamed Obama and voted Republican.

It's been the story of their lives, hasn't it?  What I also find fascinating is that these same voters aren't in the least bit outraged--much less disconcerted--about the fact that their tax dollars are paying for gold and platinum insurance coverage for the very lawmakers who want to take away their health insurance.  Why doesn't that bother them?  Or piss them off?

These well-heeled congressman can't even see past their own putrid breath when it comes to denying President Obama any kind of legacy whatsoever.  But, their obsessive hatred will doom the rest of us because the people who should give a fuck simply don't.

Ze mind...it simply boggles!

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by MulletorHater

[Ceindreadh]

All this talk about insurance and I got the updated notification on mine today.  It's about €3 per month more than last year (roughly €99 a month), and while I normally grumble about it, I am now thinking I should be counting my blessings, pay up and shut up. 

[kassa]

I read a story yesterday about a woman in Kentucky who was all ready for repeal of Obamacare, because she has a son with a preexisting condition in his 20s and Obama set it up so that he'd get kicked off her insurance when he's 26.  But the Republicans are going to fix that.

Obama, bless his soul, apparently stated today that anything that replaces the ACA should absolutely be credited as Trumpcare.  

[walnutqueen]

Last night's Frontline "President Trump" episode was fascinating.  It pretty much revealed what he really is - a showman and branding savant.

"Truthful hyperbole" is something he's actually proud of.

He also stated he's basically the same person he was in grade school (i.e. a petulant child).

Edited January 4, 2017 by walnutqueen

[Bookish Jen]

32 minutes ago, Ms.Moon said:

The GOP will replace Obamacare with prayer.  You can pray you won't get sick and if you have a preexisting condition you can try praying it away, this is a Christian nation don't you know, Jesus will be the only health care provider you will ever need.  Unless you are a GOP congressional representative then you get taxpayer subsidized healthcare forever.  

And if not prayer, the current GOP mindset, "I got mine; fuck the rest of you."

[Bookish Jen]

2 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Last night's Frontline "President Trump" episode was fascinating.  It pretty much revealed what he really is - a showman and branding savant.

"Truthful hyperbole" is something he's actually proud of.

He also stated he's basically the same person he was in grade school (i.e. a petulant child).

Frontline also had an interesting episode on how their life paths led them running for the president of the United States. Trump has always been a petulant child with no redeeming qualities. Hillary really did have the best intentions starting when she was a child, but perhaps got a bit swayed once she achieved some power. Still, she will never be as corrupt or as deplorable as Trump, never.

[Hooper]

Quote

Obama, bless his soul, apparently stated today that anything that replaces the ACA should absolutely be credited as Trumpcare.  

That's brilliant, and what makes it even shinier is that I think this is the first time I've heard of President Obama referring to Trump by name, at least since the Tangerine Snatchgrabber became the Republican nominee. 

[Sheenieb]

Quote

Why do these people think starting from scratch is this marvelous idea? 

I don't get it, either. You know what existed before Obamacare? Nothing! When I got laid off almost two years ago, I was goddamn glad ACA existed (I'm in NY) and could sign up. Yeah, it had its hassles once my unemployment insurance ran out and I had unsteady freelance work, but eventually, it went through. It was great not to receive a medical bill for hundreds of dollars. 

See, I feel bad for those that saw the iceberg ahead and voted accordingly, not for those who thought they were 'safe' and it was the rest of the freeloaders (aka black and brown people) who were going to be screwed. They're getting a wakeup call and now they're shook. 

Quote

I read a story yesterday about a woman in Kentucky who was all ready for repeal of Obamacare, because she has a son with a preexisting condition in his 20s and Obama set it up so that he'd get kicked off her insurance when he's 26.  But the Republicans are going to fix that.

 You know when I got booted off my mother's plan? At 21. I was a recent college grad and landed my first job with no insurance. Fortunately, I wasn't sick. I didn't get full time benefits until a year and a half later. Apparently, she doesn't know that under ACA the time limits on children being on their parents insurance was extended? Or she just glossed over that part. Or she's just silly as all hell.

[stillshimpy]

3 hours ago, Lana X said:

we all need a reality check. 

I'd vote for a better reality, personally, but then I already tried that and it didn't go very well, so perhaps a new reality? I suppose we could all be frogs in that scenario and one thing we can all say with one voice is, "Frog? Not my first pick for new realities, thank you."   So as we're stuck in this one, what I wish would happen is someone -- someone who actually cared and holds elected office -- would make an official stink about all of the ways Trump is in violation of the constitution already.  And there's a few "we should consider a section 8, maybe?" concerns too.  I've been doing everything within my power to make that known to the people who speak for me.  

So that should be all elected officials, basically, as they are supposed to at least visit the constitution at Christmas, or something equally "sworn to serve" etc. stuff.   Thus far that consists of five or so, so my wish for a reality in which everyone would do their damned jobs ethically is similarly looking a bit bust.  

The reality check better come soon or Frogs are going to win this round.  Again.  

Edited January 4, 2017 by stillshimpy

[millennium]

.

Edited January 7, 2017 by millennium

[MulletorHater]

43 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Last night's Frontline "President Trump" episode was fascinating.  It pretty much revealed what he really is - a showman and branding savant.

"Truthful hyperbole" is something he's actually proud of.

He also stated he's basically the same person he was in grade school (i.e. a petulant child).

That's why it's so hilarious and pitiful when a recurring theme running through many of the Trumpgrets are people who expected the Tang Turd to suddenly start acting like an adult and pivot to acting presidential.  I mean, what part of "He's a 70-year-old man who will NEVER change" didn't they get?

What's even more pitiful is that he never concealed who and what he was, but Hillary's damned emails!  They chose to buy into the tough talk of a punk ass bitch bully who talks trash while hiding behind his stormtroopers hired thugs bodyguards to open a can of whup-ass on protesters and others who displease him.  Why these people fully expected him to live up to the tough guy persona when nothing in his pampered life indicates that he could never, ever win in a fair fight is beyond me.  I understand that he did raise a hand to former wife, Ivana, and allegedly got into a fight so raucous with Marla that it knocked bedroom doors off their hinges.  But, of course, these were wimmen.

[stillshimpy]

Edit to help avoid misunderstandings, I was wrong, it's one year.  Details to follow.  

So, I'll go off to try and find this clip because it was in Trevor Noah's interview with Obama, I believe, since I swear that's the only one I've seen super recently but in it President Obama states something pretty key to remembering:  the way the ACA is structured, it will take three years to dismantle it entirely.   So even if it is repealed as the very first thing that they do, people who signed up by the last enrollment date (Obama was urging people to sign up) they would still have access to coverage for three years.   

That that was better than nothing.   Now, let me see if I can find the freaking clip anywhere to back me up on that, but that's one source I'm willing to forgo the full vetting treatment on.  

Good news, I found it.  Bad news, it's 22 minutes long.  I'll report back with the minute mark for when it shows up because I'd like to make sure I'm not actively losing the tiny shreds of my mind that are left to me:    
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/zwlq5r/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-exclusive---barack-obama-full-interview

Edited January 5, 2017 by stillshimpy