Hillary Rodham Clinton: 2016 Democratic Presidential Nominee

[zxy556575]

I live in an overwhelmingly Republican area. I took a deep breath and put a Hillary bumper sticker on my car this week. I was out running errands today and was scrupulous about following all rules of the road. I even gave a bigger tip than usual at the car wash. My subliminal message: Democrats are really nice and peaceable!

[MulletorHater]

On 10/25/2016 at 3:36 PM, Advance35 said:

Colin Powell is voting for Hillary Clinton

I don't know how much clout (if any) he has but for every Guilliani and Christie, I like being reminded that there is someone moderately sane.  IF he loses (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE) I swear I am going to feel like I have a new lease on life.   I've been thinking of changing careers and if the dictator is thwarted, Why the hell not.   Or it could be that this election is getting to me.

I still remember when General Powell had to break the news to his former friend, Senator McCain, that he would be endorsing Senator Obama.  I used the word, "former," because McCain strikes me as someone that carries grudges.  But, in that instance, Powell was willing to call a spade a spade.  There is no way in the world that Governor Half-Term (or is that Half-Wit?) should have been one heartbeat away from the presidency.  

I remember what a big deal that was.  Powell endorsed President Obama again in 2012 and Governor Romney's surrogates nearly lost their minds.  His endorsements are always well thought out and explained in great detail.

15 hours ago, 33kaitykaity said:

This --

'Not Wanted': Black Applicants Rejected for Trump Housing Speak Out

by CYNTHIA MCFADDEN, ANNA R. SCHECTER and HANNAH RAPPLEYE

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/not-wanted-black-applicants-rejected-trump-housing-speak-out-n671966

-- and this --

New Clinton Ad Features Woman Who Was Denied Housing by Trump Corporation for Being Black

http://www.mediaite.com/online/new-clinton-ad-features-woman-who-was-denied-housing-by-trump-corporation-for-being-black/

-- on the same day -- that's gonna leave a mark.  

Rachel Maddow and LOD talked about this on their respective shows last night.  It infuriated me and almost brought me to tears at the same time.

One of the rejected applicants even kept the paper work from the lawsuit against Drumpf and his Klansman father because she felt it important that history not be erased.

[atomationage]

Today is Hillary's birthday.   Happy Birthday to Hillary Rodham Clinton, HRC45.

Edited October 26, 2016 by atomationage

[Queena]

47 minutes ago, MulletorHater said:

I still remember when General Powell had to break the news to his former friend, Senator McCain, that he would be endorsing Senator Obama.  I used the word, "former," because McCain strikes me as someone that carries grudges.  But, in that instance, Powell was willing to call a spade a spade.  There is no way in the world that Governor Half-Term (or is that Half-Wit?) should have been one heartbeat away from the presidency.  

I remember what a big deal that was.  Powell endorsed President Obama again in 2012 and Governor Romney's surrogates nearly lost their minds.  His endorsements are always well thought out and explained in great detail.

Rachel Maddow and LOD talked about this on their respective shows last night.  It infuriated me and almost brought me to tears at the same time.

One of the rejected applicants even kept the paper work from the lawsuit against Drumpf and his Klansman father because she felt it important that history not be erased.

Not that he ever had her vote, but my aunt was watching TRMS with me when the segment came on. She couldn't believe that it was true. She wanted to give the Republican party the benefit of doubt. She's going to be sure to make it home to vote for her boyfriend's favorite girl. 

 

I'm always happy when I convert someone who wasn't excited about voting, into being excited about voting. Especially if they're voting for HRC. 

[NewDigs]

1 hour ago, lordonia said:

I live in an overwhelmingly Republican area. I took a deep breath and put a Hillary bumper sticker on my car this week. I was out running errands today and was scrupulous about following all rules of the road. I even gave a bigger tip than usual at the car wash. My subliminal message: Democrats are really nice and peaceable!

I put a sign in my front window. I'm hoping it works like garlic and vampires. But it did make me nervous. And that makes me sad.

I went to the county DNC hoping for a yard sign and stickers and they had almost nothing. Pins! Big 2 inchers. Huh.

This is bright neon red county and it sounded like the national DNC wasn't particularly supportive. Maybe they have more now.

[candall]

2 hours ago, lordonia said:

I live in an overwhelmingly Republican area. I took a deep breath and put a Hillary bumper sticker on my car this week. I was out running errands today and was scrupulous about following all rules of the road. I even gave a bigger tip than usual at the car wash. My subliminal message: Democrats are really nice and peaceable!

I admitted to someone recently that I didn't put an Obama sticker on my car because I didn't want my tires slashed at Walmart.  She told me she had had an Obama bumper sticker and I felt so ashamed that I hadn't had the courage of my convictions.

Ha.  Someone had keyed her car.

[Padma]

28 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

I put a sign in my front window. I'm hoping it works like garlic and vampires. But it did make me nervous. And that makes me sad.

I went to the county DNC hoping for a yard sign and stickers and they had almost nothing. Pins! Big 2 inchers. Huh.

This is bright neon red county and it sounded like the national DNC wasn't particularly supportive. Maybe they have more now.

We shouldn't feel afraid to express our freedom of speech, but I live in a (becoming) purple area and don't have the guts to do it. I applaud you and Lordonia for yours! 

[Silver Raven]

Republicans are already talking about impeaching Hillary.

[Kromm]

19 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

This election is really something else. Because Trump is so horrible, people are completely ignoring the mountain of Hillary's flagrant corrupt bullshit. 

There's a difference between "reluctantly accepting" and "ignoring".

You've got every right to be upset, but IMO you are at the same time making a huge assumption about everyone else. 

Also, as I think has been discussed a few times, most of Hillary's slime factor is really run of the mill typical politician stuff. The stuff which relies on huge conspiracy theories is inevitably inflated and ridiculous. She hasn't ordered anyone murdered.  She doesn't have secret links to the Illuminati, whoever they are. Heck, she didn't even willfully defy a subpoena and wrongfully delete emails (because the subpoena, which is publicly viewable, only asked for a small portion of her emails--ones of 4 topics out of the thousands in her email box). What she HAS done is more in the nature of being insincere, like most politicians. Saying one thing to one group and something opposite to another, like most politicians. Voting for stuff she doesn't totally believe in, to drive through other deals (like ALL politicians, because otherwise nothing gets through Congress). Willingly taking nice paydays for speeches (not corruption, but still hard for most of us to like). Standard slime.

[Kitty Redstone]

They are so out of touch.  People are tired of politically-motivated witch hunts and unending gridlock.

[abstractstuff]

6 minutes ago, Kromm said:

There's a difference between "reluctantly accepting" and "ignoring".

You've got every right to be upset, but IMO you are at the same time making a huge assumption about everyone else. 

Also, as I think has been discussed a few times, most of Hillary's slime factor is really run of the mill typical politician stuff. The stuff which relies on huge conspiracy theories is inevitably inflated and ridiculous. She hasn't ordered anyone murdered.  She doesn't have secret links to the Illuminati, whoever they are. Heck, she didn't even willfully defy a subpoena and wrongfully delete emails (because the subpoena, which is publicly viewable, only asked for a small portion of her emails--ones of 4 topics out of the thousands in her email box). What she HAS done is more in the nature of being insincere, like most politicians. Saying one thing to one group and something opposite to another, like most politicians. Voting for stuff she doesn't totally believe in, to drive through other deals (like ALL politicians, because otherwise nothing gets through Congress). Willingly taking nice paydays for speeches (not corruption, but still hard for most of us to like). Standard slime.

 

 

Thanks for the response. I may be assuming about some people, but from what I am hearing and personally seeing. I'm not assuming much. IMO the left and the right have gotten so far up their own asses, that I feel like I can hardly relate anymore. I voted twice for Obama, but dare to criticize, and you are racist. I do agree with several Republican policies, then that means I agree with them all. I'm a pro-choice, early 30's lesbian, who feels there is no candidate I would want to vote for. This whole cycle has been a clown car that's been set on fire. I just do not trust or believe a word that comes out of her mouth. And, I'm not into the conspiracy stuff. Though, reading them is fun. She has this election bought before it even started, so I know she's our next droner in chief. I hope I'm wrong, and it goes wonderfully and she's a great president. I wish her the best. 

[Nidratime]

Quote

Republicans are already talking about impeaching Hillary.

Since she hasn't done anything impeachable, that's like saying to Americans who vote for her -- perhaps the majority of those who vote -- we are going to nullify your choice because we don't like it. It's the ultimate rigging of an election.

[MulletorHater]

10 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

Since she hasn't done anything impeachable, that's like saying to Americans who vote for her -- perhaps the majority of those who vote -- we are going to nullify your choice because we don't like it. It's the ultimate rigging of an election.

And, we've been here before, haven't we?  We saw it with the first President Clinton, and we saw it again with President Obama.

Clinton's personal failings made it possible for the GOP to have their show trial--to the tune of millions of taxpayer dollars.  And, he left office more popular than ever.  They tried to delegitimize Obama with government shutdowns, threats to impeach or "sue" him and his AG.  Plus, they tried it by obstructing his agenda, denying his judicial and other nominees a chance to be heard.  Oh, and the multiple votes to repeal the ACA.  And, of course, Mitch "the Turtle" McConnell announced that the most important thing was to make Obama a one-term president.  This, while we were in the middle of a major recession and two unpaid wars without end.  Now, the president is more popular than ever and is on his IDGAF Tour.

These people just can't stop shooting themselves in their corn-encrusted feet.

[starri]

Hillary's Election Night event is going to be at New York's Javits Center.

If you're unfamiliar with it, it has a HUGE glass ceiling.

[Kitty Redstone]

This afternoon on one of the MSNBC shows, they had a group of undecided or newly decided voters talk about their impressions of HRC and Donald.  While many of the people viewed Donald negatively, none of the people thought a whole lot better of HRC.  I get that people have real. legitimate issues with her positions on the issues, but her problem (according to this small group of people) was that she was a liar, only wanted power, and couldn't be trusted.  In their words, she was the lesser of two evils.  I don't know what her campaign could have done or could still do to change these perceptions.  Presumably something.  But one woman didn't like Hillary because she thought she was "too prepared."  What do you do with someone like this?  There's no such thing as being too prepared.  Either you're prepared or you're not, and it's such a ridiculous complaint that I'm still trying to figure it out.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Kitty Redstone
edited to make sense

[Pixel]

8 hours ago, candall said:

I've been spending all my time on the Trump thread because 1)I already posted that I don't think there's any person alive, anywhere, more qualified than HRC to be president and 2)about every fourth post on the Trump board blows my mind with fresh evidence that it's unfathomable how anyone could think he's a suitable candidate for president.

But I have a some extra admiration for Hillary for something that probably not too many people noticed.

I was watching her march up the staircase to her plane and I noticed that she was using her hand on the rail a little bit to help pull herself along, although her step never faltered for a millisecond.  As someone with older knees that hurt sometimes--knees much younger than hers--I recognize and appreciate the subtlety of that hand grab.  I certainly would never want to force my knees to keep going up those stairs at a smart pace when they were screaming at me to stop.  I need some Motrin, just thinking about it.

I'm so sorry that, on top of everything else, she always has to keep in her mind that no one can be allowed to see that she's pulling off a SUPERHUMAN effort with her 24/7 schedule.

 

You go, grrrrrrl--you're awesome! 

I don't chalk that up to bad knees. I'm 49, have zero knee or pain issues, and will always use a handrail going up or down stairs. Especially those wobbly airplane ones!

[Pixel]

1 hour ago, abstractstuff said:

 

Thanks for the response. I may be assuming about some people, but from what I am hearing and personally seeing. I'm not assuming much. IMO the left and the right have gotten so far up their own asses, that I feel like I can hardly relate anymore. I voted twice for Obama, but dare to criticize, and you are racist. I do agree with several Republican policies, then that means I agree with them all. I'm a pro-choice, early 30's lesbian, who feels there is no candidate I would want to vote for. This whole cycle has been a clown car that's been set on fire. I just do not trust or believe a word that comes out of her mouth. And, I'm not into the conspiracy stuff. Though, reading them is fun. She has this election bought before it even started, so I know she's our next droner in chief. I hope I'm wrong, and it goes wonderfully and she's a great president. I wish her the best. 

I think you're wrong about most. Everyone I know supporting Hillary is well aware of her history. Even if half of it were true, hell, even if all of it were true, the danger posed by Trump overshadows it.

Why would we discuss her shortcomings? I don't post them on my FB because my goal is to keep him out. I'm certainly not going to share anything that might sway someone away from her. That would be counterproductive. It doesn't mean I'm not aware of her history or that I don't care. It means I have a bigger threat and goal to deal with. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Pixel

[abstractstuff]

I can understand and appreciate that Pixel. And thanks for your reply.  But, I think her shortcomings might end up being extremely dangerous, and I do think the American people need to discuss and pull together for a damn change and flip the system upside down. I am voting for her because Trump just cannot win. He can't. But, I am not doing it happily. 

[Pixel]

5 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

I can understand and appreciate that Pixel. And thanks for your reply.  But, I think her shortcomings might end up being extremely dangerous, and I do think the American people need to discuss and pull together for a damn change and flip the system upside down. I am voting for her because Trump just cannot win. He can't. But, I am not doing it happily. 

That may come to be true. I hope it does not. At least with her, it's a maybe. With Trump, I feel like it's a guaranteed nightmare. 

I'm a Democrat anyway, but I'd really like to believe that if the tables were turned and Trump was the Democratic nominee, and a reasonable Repub like Romney was the GOP nom, I would vote for Mitt even though I don't agree with most Repub policies. I'd like to think I would put the country's best interests above my own. 

Are you supposed to capitalize Repub and Democrat? I never know. 

[random chance]

If people didn't have concerns about Hillary Clinton she'd be ahead by about 50 points by now. If she does win it'll be because she ran against the worst person who was ever nominated. I'd vote for Nixon before I'd vote for him.

[Advance35]

Quote

She has this election bought before it even started, so I know she's our next droner in chief.

God I hope so.  That's what it's come to for me.  I want Trump to lose that badly.  I don't care how.   THAT is a sad state of affairs but that's where we are.   If nothing else, HRC is credited as cunning, so I hope she knows what she's doing.   In terms of the advantages she presses and the Polls she observes.

Lawsuit Against the RNC

That was certainly enough to turn my frown upside down.   Burn you bastards.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

 And, of course, Mitch "the Cecil Turtle" McConnell announced that the most important thing was to make Obama a one-term president.  This, while we were in the middle of a major recession and two unpaid wars without end.  

I hope you don't mind, @MulletorHater, but I fixed that for ya! (Bolding mine).

McConnell=this character: 

I wanted to find Jon mocking him, but I'm a technoturd and this was the best I could do.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[Padma]

10 hours ago, candall said:

I've been spending all my time on the Trump thread because 1)I already posted that I don't think there's any person alive, anywhere, more qualified than HRC to be president and 2)about every fourth post on the Trump board blows my mind with fresh evidence that it's unfathomable how anyone could think he's a suitable candidate for president.

But I have a some extra admiration for Hillary for something that probably not too many people noticed.

I was watching her march up the staircase to her plane and I noticed that she was using her hand on the rail a little bit to help pull herself along, although her step never faltered for a millisecond.  As someone with older knees that hurt sometimes--knees much younger than hers--I recognize and appreciate the subtlety of that hand grab.  I certainly would never want to force my knees to keep going up those stairs at a smart pace when they were screaming at me to stop.  I need some Motrin, just thinking about it.

I'm so sorry that, on top of everything else, she always has to keep in her mind that no one can be allowed to see that she's pulling off a SUPERHUMAN effort with her 24/7 schedule.

 

You go, grrrrrrl--you're awesome! 

At 69 years old, I'll bet she has some arthritis and  some of the aches and pains that come with getting older. I'm a bit younger and admire how refreshed she looks all the time, despite a schedule that would make me look weary, no matter how I tried to seem otherwise. (I think that's one reason I hate Trump's whole sexist "she's taking a nap" thing because it's ageist and gender-loaded and just well, suited to him because he's such an a-----e.)  She keeps a smile on and keeps going and Lord--I have no idea why she wants that awful job, I think there's some ambition of course, but I think she really does want to do good for people and make a difference.  There's a lot to admire, once one gets past the Republican noise, esp. Trump's.

[partofme]

1 hour ago, Pixel said:

Are you supposed to capitalize Repub and Democrat? I never know. 

I would like to think the Democrats could never nominate someone like Trump.   I know that I could never vote for a Republican under any circumstance, they all support the things Trump does, the others are just more polite about it for the most part.    Doesn't matter if their name is Bush, Cruz or Christie, anyone of them scares me.

eta my iPad apparently deleted the part of the quote that I though I quoted.

Edited October 27, 2016 by partofme

[Moose135]

2 hours ago, Kitty Redstone said:

But one woman didn't like Hillary because she thought she was "too prepared."

I want my President to be "too prepared"!

[Pixel]

9 minutes ago, partofme said:

I would like to think the Democrats could never nominate someone like Trump.   I know that I could never vote for a Republican under any circumstance, they all support the things Trump does, the others are just more polite about it for the most part.    Doesn't matter if their name is Bush, Cruz or Christie, anyone of them scares me.

eta my iPad apparently deleted the part of the quote that I though I quoted.

I also feel that way about the GOP. I would try to set that aside, though, if the democratic candidate was a certifiable misogynist with obvious narcissistic personality disorder. Having said that, I don't think the Dems would nominate someone like that. I'm just going to keep telling myself that. 

[atomationage]

One funny thing is how concerned the alt right is about poor Julian Assange now that he's against Hillary.  The conspiracy theories are going crazy.  They want proof that he's alive and well now that he has no internet.  I thought before this that they wanted him assassinated. 

[Padma]

Quote

 

      3 hours ago, Kitty Redstone said:

But one woman didn't like Hillary because she thought she was "too prepared."

 

I saw that, too. It was a real jaw-dropping, "Ah-ha!" moment for me.  I had never thought of it before, but some people resent Hillary because she's smart! And articulate! And knowledgeable!  (and..of course...a woman who brings all these things to the fore).  I never thought of it before but I think for many people it's not just sexism with her, its resentment because she's better educated and "talks and acts like she thinks she's better than us".  It's Arkansas first lady-animus all over again!  It's okay for a senator, but not if you want to be the "top dog" in the nation. For that we need an a----h---, braggart celebrity businessman who boasts about how rich he is and how well educated he is but since he's super macho, tough guy and seems as dumb as a box of rocks, he's relatable and we love him!

[Kromm]

3 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

I can understand and appreciate that Pixel. And thanks for your reply.  But, I think her shortcomings might end up being extremely dangerous, and I do think the American people need to discuss and pull together for a damn change and flip the system upside down. I am voting for her because Trump just cannot win. He can't. But, I am not doing it happily. 

Trump is dangerous.

Hillary Clinton is just... a compromise. There's little in her actual behavior to suggest the typical under-the-table deals and political payola she's likely to engage in is going to endanger anyone.

The Internet is rife with utter and total bullshit which blames the Syrian war on her, and acts like she singlehandedly caused ISIS to form, because she was one of the many people who were in favor of certain actions in Libya.

The reality is that all of that is total bunk--the conspiracy talk we spoke of before. All the total stuff trying to blame ISIS on her is crap in too many ways to list here without gigantic epic sized posts, but the short version is this: even if people could prove that she was somehow the decisionmaker instead of a President, the SecDef and The Joint Chiefs, there's the more important fact that only hindsight allows people to draw a line from those events to the rise of ISIS. People literally want to blame her for a progression of events NOBODY could have predicted, and an approach that was commonly accepted by a majority of people at the time.

Really we need to better define "dangerous".  We need a specific explanation that doesn't seem to come back to her either being like every other career politician, or her having a Vagina. Not that I'm saying you said either of those things, but inevitably when people leave vague hanging statements out there about Hillary Clinton, a lot of people mentally fill in the area after the ellipsis with "...because she's a woman".  So I'd argue that to better make your case you need to be more specific, so nobody dares assume you mean that.

1 hour ago, atomationage said:

One funny thing is how concerned the alt right is about poor Julian Assange now that he's against Hillary.  The conspiracy theories are going crazy.  They want proof that he's alive and well now that he has no internet.  I thought before this that they wanted him assassinated. 

Agreed. Most of them wanted Assange in jail and/or dead a few years ago.

It's not even because they like him. He's just a convenient stalking horse for faux-concern and even more accusations to be tossed at the Democrats.

[abstractstuff]

Fair point Kromm. Definitely not because she has a vagina.. And eeek! At her the being too prepared comment I read upthread. Ok.. I'm seriously freaking the hell out about Russia. I truly truly am trying to educate myself the best I can this election. I am reading everything.. I mean everything.. I'm reading the far left stuff, the far right stuff, in the middle, i'm reading the leaked e-mails, I'm trying to as hard as I can to make heads or tails of this, and it's hard. I'll admit it.. It's freaking hard. I know I make a lot of initial comments on here that are pretty sarcastic and blunt, but, when it comes down to it.. I'm just trying to figure stuff out. I truly am scared for us right now. I don't really take Trump into much consideration, because, I honestly don't think he ever had even close to a chance, and part of me thinks he could be in it for her. It's just all to bizarre. I'm tired of us being in war. I'm tired of our men and women dying. I see something big coming again.. And I just find her so damn disingenuous I can't stand it. I know this is a minor thing, but when she went on that black radio show (sorry I can't think of the name right now) and they asked her something she always carries with her, and she said hot sauce.... Fucking hot sauce.. My anger is at most politicians I guess. Not just her. I would not have voted for Bernie either, just want to put that out there.  I'm just scared Kromm.. Shitless. 

[Kromm]

2 hours ago, random chance said:

If people didn't have concerns about Hillary Clinton she'd be ahead by about 50 points by now. If she does win it'll be because she ran against the worst person who was ever nominated. I'd vote for Nixon before I'd vote for him.

Exactly. Think about how totally insane Trump had to get, and how many people even on his "own side" he had to insult before the polling turned.

Heck, the only reason the third party candidates aren't doing better is that a.) listening to them, they're just as bad  and b.) most people DO accept the logic that favoring them risks giving swing state ground to Trump.

You'll hear some "rah rah Hillary is great" stuff occasionally, but the average response is "better corrupt than crazy". People don't like being lied to. But you know what they hate more?  Being dead. Turning Earth into a ball of radioactive dirt. That's why Hillary is winning strong finally. People are aware she will probably lie to us a lot. People are aware she's about as sincere as Bill Cosby's sweatshirt telling people "Hello, Friend!" People expect President Clinton II will probably have some scandals. But she does respond to public opinion (and still will after she's elected). Allegedly her temper is more cold than hot (which means subtle digs or slow revenge but not irrational spur of the moment bad decisions). And while she wasn't the world's best diplomat, she was infinitely better than an Orange Idiot who would within a few months likely lose the US every single ally we've ever collected. 

This is all even before we talk about who's likely to do what when a Nuclear football is involved.

But even conventional conflicts show the differences. It's true for example that Clinton seems to favor being tough with Russia, and Trump claims he wants "peace" with them, but Putin is literally getting crazier and crazier every year he's in power and Trump bending over for him and saying "Please Vlad may I have another" may not lead into a second cold war quite as quickly, but instead into a world where within a few years Russia would be as big as the Soviet Union again.   Meanwhile the idiot is all too happy to antagonize China, a country we far more desperately need to make peace with.

But the real danger with Trump is that this is an idiot, an utter buffoon, who if in power would be the first President to start diplomatic incidents by Tweeting things. He literally doesn't think before he does it. He's like Amanda Bynes back in her worst days when she was tweeting super crazy shit every single day... except he'd be tweeting that kind of nonsense to other people in the world with weapons, treaties with us, etc.  We'd be lucky to last a year before something truly nightmarish results.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Kromm

[LotusFlower]

40 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

Fair point Kromm. Definitely not because she has a vagina.. And eeek! At her the being too prepared comment I read upthread. Ok.. I'm seriously freaking the hell out about Russia. I truly truly am trying to educate myself the best I can this election. I am reading everything.. I mean everything.. I'm reading the far left stuff, the far right stuff, in the middle, i'm reading the leaked e-mails, I'm trying to as hard as I can to make heads or tails of this, and it's hard. I'll admit it.. It's freaking hard. I know I make a lot of initial comments on here that are pretty sarcastic and blunt, but, when it comes down to it.. I'm just trying to figure stuff out. I truly am scared for us right now. I don't really take Trump into much consideration, because, I honestly don't think he ever had even close to a chance, and part of me thinks he could be in it for her. It's just all to bizarre. I'm tired of us being in war. I'm tired of our men and women dying. I see something big coming again.. And I just find her so damn disingenuous I can't stand it. I know this is a minor thing, but when she went on that black radio show (sorry I can't think of the name right now) and they asked her something she always carries with her, and she said hot sauce.... Fucking hot sauce.. My anger is at most politicians I guess. Not just her. I would not have voted for Bernie either, just want to put that out there.  I'm just scared Kromm.. Shitless. 

There's only one reason you're so scared - Trump has run a campaign based on fear.  Clearly it's working.  Illegal aliens!  Muslims!  Mexican criminals and rapists!  ISIS!  Crooked Hillary!  Sexual Predator Bill!  Basically, the country is going to pot, and China is taking over.  Or the Apocalypse is coming.

It's nothing but racist propaganda and good, old fashioned fear-mongering.  Don't worry.

[Kromm]

7 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

There's only one reason you're so scared - Trump has run a campaign based on fear.  Clearly it's working.  Illegal aliens!  Muslims!  Mexican criminals and rapists!  ISIS!  Crooked Hillary!  Sexual Predator Bill!  Basically, the country is going to pot, and China is taking over.  Or the Apocalypse is coming.

It's nothing but racist propaganda and good, old fashioned fear-mongering.  Don't worry.

That's Trump's Supervillian name you know. "Fearmonger".

"Orange Man" was too much like "Purple Man".

[film noire]

1 hour ago, abstractstuff said:

. And I just find her so damn disingenuous I can't stand it. I know this is a minor thing, but when she went on that black radio show (sorry I can't think of the name right now) and they asked her something she always carries with her, and she said hot sauce.... Fucking hot sauce.. 

For what it's worth, HRC has been carrying hot sauce in her purse for years;  "Salon reports that Clinton “has been talking about carrying hot sauce since 2008,” and various outlets over the years have reported that Clinton “packed pepper sauce” in her bag and had “a collection of more than 100 hot sauces” when she was first lady."

http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/04/19/right-wing-media-cant-believe-hillary-clinton-has-hot-sauce-her-bag/209983

Edited October 27, 2016 by film noire

[film noire]

2 hours ago, Kromm said:

You'll hear some "rah rah Hillary is great" stuff occasionally, but the average response is "better corrupt than crazy".

That's what the pundits keep saying-- enthusiasm gap, etc --  but the latest ABC poll shows that 56 percent of Clinton voters say they are "for her"  "The latest ABC News survey reveals that, in fact, Clinton’s voters feel about as positively about their candidate as any candidate’s supporters have felt about their own preferred candidate since 1980. Trump voters are less enthusiastic about him: Since 1980, no group of supporters has been less affirmative in its support for its candidate.....President Obama won in 2008 and 2012 with at least 80 percent of his backers saying their support was mostly because they liked him. But that’s uncommon.

George H.W. Bush in 1988 and Bill Clinton in 1992 were elected when 56 percent and 57 percent respectively of their backers said they were voting for the candidate. And while 1980’s latest poll that asked this question was taken before Ronald Reagan beat Jimmy Carter in the two candidates’ only debate, only half of Reagan’s backers said they were voting mainly in support of their candidate."

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-voters-arent-just-voting-against-trump/

I think the media (and hard core Hillary haters) have overlooked that many millions of  women (especially women of colour, and women over forty of every colour) feel no ambivalence about her candidacy at all. Nobody's holding their nose; they're raising their fists in joy. Not just because they're  voting for "a" woman, but because they're voting for this woman. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by film noire

[abstractstuff]

24 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

There's only one reason you're so scared - Trump has run a campaign based on fear.  Clearly it's working.  Illegal aliens!  Muslims!  Mexican criminals and rapists!  ISIS!  Crooked Hillary!  Sexual Predator Bill!  Basically, the country is going to pot, and China is taking over.  Or the Apocalypse is coming.

It's nothing but racist propaganda and good, old fashioned fear-mongering.  Don't worry.

That is not at all what it is.. Like I have said.. I don't take Trump into account. And yes.. There is still much to worry about.. 

[LotusFlower]

48 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

That is not at all what it is.. Like I have said.. I don't take Trump into account. And yes.. There is still much to worry about.. 

What a coincidence that the alt-right is pushing fear-based propaganda and Trump is running a negative campaign based on fear-mongering, but it has nothing to do with why you're so scared!

[zxy556575]

Politifact's truthfulness scorecards for some full-time Democrats and one drop-in:

•     Nancy Pelosi at 24% false and 10% pants on fire
•     Cory Booker at 20% false and 0% pants on fire
•     Joe Biden at 13% false and 4% pants on fire
•     Obama at 12% false and 2% pants on fire
•     Sanders at 12% false and 0% pants on fire
•     HRC at 10% false and 2% pants on fire
•     Kaine at 6% false and 0% pants on fire
•     Elizabeth Warren at 0% false and 0% pants on fire 

Their Pants On Fire tab has 52 pages with the details of each lie.

The Obamameter shows 45% of promises kept and 22% broken.

I genuinely don't see anything HRC has said or done that could convince so many people she's a world class liar, or even to mistrust her.

Edited October 28, 2016 by lordonia

[ruby24]

Yeah, I mean let's be honest, she's no different from a normal politician, really. I think a lot of it is baggage from the 90's, where I do believe people genuinely mistrusted and were immediately suspicious of her simply because she was the president's wife who wanted to be involved in politics and policy. They saw her ambition and they did NOT like it at all, and they've held onto to this dislike and distrust of her ever since. You can see it in that video montage of how long interviewers have been asking her the same damn question- why don't people like you?

I was a kid in the 90's, so I don't remember the details of any of that stuff, but when I became really tuned into politics in college, I honestly never hated her. I planned to vote for her until the first time I saw Obama speak, which was his Iowa caucus victory speech. So during that primary I was pretty anti-Hillary, but when I look back on it now, the truth is it was only because I was so pro-Obama and so caught up in the race. Once it was over, I was happy to see her in the cabinet as Secretary of State and I went back to liking her and hoping she'd run after Obama's eight years, so we could make history again.

And I was for her all the way this time, I'm one of those millennials who really never caught the Bernie fever. To me he was too much of a one-issue candidate. Plus, after seeing the idealism of Obama shattered by the Republican congress, this time I really thought Hillary had the experience and battle scars to get in there and know how to be pragmatic and do things in spite of them. She's actually more like Obama in that way- he is a very pragmatic person and believes in incremental change over long periods of time, but his charisma and personality make him seem larger than life. Hillary doesn't have that kind of charisma to her, but she's just as pragmatic and their policies are essentially identical (and I personally think she can be likable, especially in interviews and town hall settings, where she relaxes and gets into details- she shines under certain settings).

So yeah, I basically think this hatred and distrust is just crazy over the top and not rooted in fact, just pathology. It's insane.

[abstractstuff]

2 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

What a coincidence that the alt-right is pushing fear-based propaganda and Trump is running a negative campaign based on fear-mongering, but it has nothing to do with why you're so scared!

You really think that the only reason why I feel a certain way is based on Trump's campaign bullshit? That is honestly more than insulting. Why on Earth did you get the impression that my fears came from that stuff? You think my brain can't handle getting information from source after source after source which is what is driving me crazy? Come on now. I can't help but to be concerned as to what is to come for our country. And is has nothing to do with Trump.. LIke I have said, several times.. He is not an option for me.. He will not be our president and I never thought he wouldbe . Your comment reminded me of triggering some random person that only chose to listen to 10 words, and 8 out of those 10 triggered you. 

[candall]

10 hours ago, Pixel said:

I don't chalk that up to bad knees. I'm 49, have zero knee or pain issues, and will always use a handrail going up or down stairs. Especially those wobbly airplane ones!

Lucky! That's why I said I could recognize the gesture of subtly pulling oneself along (as opposed to steadying yourself.)  It's helpful when you can use your upper body strength to spare your knees a bit. 

If I anticipate long or frequent stairsteps, I might even pack a small collapsible cane, but God forbid Hillary ever appeared in public with a cane!  Trump would advocate just going ahead and shoving her straight into the grave.

 

I don't know anything about Hillary's knees, maybe she has knees like a teenager and she was just tired.  But my point is the same:  she's keeping a schedule that would kill most of us mere mortals and she never lets it show.

Edited October 27, 2016 by candall

[Advance35]

I am just not lowering my guard yet.  I fear the much touted Brexxit factor.   The sad and scary fact is, that there are people who support that maniac and seem to give know thought or consideration that he's unfit in EVERY way.   I do think he would be BIG trouble in relation to our allies.   Trump supporters I know say, "We're America, they'd just have to get in line." and I try to politely say "China does not HAVE to do anything."

I'm hoping for a solid defeat and I'm hoping it comes swift and decisive.  I've always  known that there are bad apples but this is the first time I've thought, the entire tree might be rotten.   In terms of getting things done, I do think Clinton probably has her ways of maneuvering around Washington.

I do think the countries misogyny is on display because for every scandal or gaffe Clinton has, Trump has one multiplied by 12.   Believe it or not, there are women who don't seem to care about the way Trump treats and speaks about Women, Women who don't care if other women have choices about what happens to their bodies (I once saw a movie about a woman who needed an abortion and couldn't get one, so some guy came to her house late at night and performed one with a HANGAR?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!, I think it was Demi Moore), one said she would give up her right to vote if it would make Trump President?!?!?!?!?!?!.   Then you have minorities like the family described earlier in the thread or even members of the LGBT community.

I guess this election and Trump have really instilled a distrust and lack of faith in my fellow man.   I pray Hillary wins but I honestly don't think I'm going to look at the world quite the same after all this.

[Pixel]

6 hours ago, film noire said:

That's what the pundits keep saying-- enthusiasm gap, etc --  but the latest ABC poll shows that 56 percent of Clinton voters say they are "for her"  "The latest ABC News survey reveals that, in fact, Clinton’s voters feel about as positively about their candidate as any candidate’s supporters have felt about their own preferred candidate since 1980. Trump voters are less enthusiastic about him: Since 1980, no group of supporters has been less affirmative in its support for its candidate.....President Obama won in 2008 and 2012 with at least 80 percent of his backers saying their support was mostly because they liked him. But that’s uncommon.

George H.W. Bush in 1988 and Bill Clinton in 1992 were elected when 56 percent and 57 percent respectively of their backers said they were voting for the candidate. And while 1980’s latest poll that asked this question was taken before Ronald Reagan beat Jimmy Carter in the two candidates’ only debate, only half of Reagan’s backers said they were voting mainly in support of their candidate."

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-voters-arent-just-voting-against-trump/

I think the media (and hard core Hillary haters) have overlooked that many millions of  women (especially women of colour, and women over forty of every colour) feel no ambivalence about her candidacy at all. Nobody's holding their nose; they're raising their fists in joy. Not just because they're  voting for "a" woman, but because they're voting for this woman. 

As a woman over 40, I heartily concur. I started out reluctant because of all the bullshit allegations against her (I didn't know enough to know they were bullshit) and throughout the course of this election I've done my homework. She's not corrupt. She's not any worse than any career politician, and she's IN FACT better than most. More honest than most.  This I have learned, and believe me, that is not the place I started in. I started out very disappointed that Bernie wasn't the candidate and grudgingly accepting Hillary as the lesser of the remaining evils. Now? I can honestly say I have no reservations about supporting her at this point.  And it's not because of Trump - it's because of her.  

I recognize that she's not perfect. But she's more than good enough.

[choclatechip45]

Even if it comes out Hillary is a serial killer I would vote for her because I would rather have Tim Kaine as president than Trump or Pence.

[Pixel]

9 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Even if it comes out Hillary is a serial killer I would vote for her because I would rather have Tim Kaine as president than Trump or Pence.

No kidding.  Pence is just heinous. He only comes off better than Trump because by comparison, he's more professional in his mannerisms.  Don't let that fool you. The guy is absolutely medieval in his thinking on women's health and LGBTQ issues.

[Advance35]

Quote

 Pence is just heinous. He only comes off better than Trump because by comparison, he's more professional in his mannerisms.  Don't let that fool you. The guy is absolutely medieval in his thinking on women's health and LGBTQ issues.

Isn't he more Byzantine as well?  Some have speculated that Pence loathes his running mate but wouldn't be able to beat Hillary on his own and Trump makes a good battering ram.  IF evil triumphed and they won, internal sabotage would begin and The End would be Trumps impeachment at which point, PENCE would get the Iron Throne. Shudder.

Quote

Even if it comes out Hillary is a serial killer I would vote for her because I would rather have Tim Kaine as president than Trump or Pence.

Other than the obvious suitability, what sold me on  Hillary was the debates.  The first one I was very nervous because Trump tends to get big and loud (though rarely coherent and accurate) and many of the RNC candidates had trouble facing that down during the primaries.   Clinton comported herself well, she went toe to toe with him even when he was acting up.  She didn't become a shrieking harpy, she was firm and made her points.   Then the 2nd debate, when  he bought in those women, I was horrified.  HORRIFIED, I thought there is no way Hillary is going to be able to get through this because I know I wouldn't of.   As it was, during that debate, I kept leaving the room every few minutes.   But Hillary was composed, coherent, professional and faced down his erratic, unhinged antics with aplomb.   And the third debate was much the same.  I couldn't have done the same in her shoes.

Brava Hillary.  I would have voted for her no matter what but I feel better about doing so.

[Moose135]

The Yale Record Does Not Endorse Hillary

[atomationage]

10 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

The Yale Record Does Not Endorse Hillary

You could add, Ironically!

[Guest]

Try not to worry too much about those Brexit polls

And I love that Trump, who didn't even have a fucking clue what Brexit meant when he landed in Scotland the day after the vote, is all about talking about it now like some foreign policy expert. I suspect his idea of "foreign policy" consists of him congratulating himself for not mocking the accent of his Chinese food take out guy. 

ETA: That Yale Record thing was fantastic! Made me a little teary to read it! 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Guest

[backformore]

2 hours ago, Moose135 said:

The Yale Record Does Not Endorse Hillary

that's pretty god-damned beautiful, thanks for posting it.