Marriage Boot Camp - General Discussion

[bilgistic]

What bugs me about Jenni and Roger is that they are "engaged" and have been forever and are now having a kid, and Jenni's "friend" Snooki and her "finance" Jionni are now having their second kid and are still "engaged". People, it takes half an hour and fifty bucks to go to the Justice of the Peace. Do it for your kids' rights, if nothing else.

[trimthatfat]

I loved the pairing of Ryan and Tanisha. I think Ryan is mostly reserved because Trista is, but if Trista was less focused on being so rigid and perfect, he would follow suit. He was adorable.

 

Gretchen was shitty for forcing Kevin to stay in the limo while she went to the event. That was really rude and uncalled for. I'm mad she wasn't called on that.

Why Roger, who seems like a pretty nice guy, even wastes his time with Jenni, I have no idea. She is dumb, uninteresting, unable to express any emotion, either physically ( that face!)or verbally and self absorbed. I know her mother has soon kind of mental/emotional problems and is in an institution and her dad seems weird. She definitely has baggage , but doesn't want to face it. Or doesn't want to talk about it for free. I doubt she'd really be upset if Roger left.

 

I don't get it either. Jenni doesn't even seem that into him. Even she says that she loves him, it rings so hollow. I can't tell if the horrid plastic surgery she has done zonked her face and mind of displaying basic emotion.

[bilgistic]

"Traci's Dumb Donald hairdo"!!!!!

Seriously, there's no need to call in Wig Cop, because that case is CLOSED. I think I saw that mess on clearance November 1 at Party City.

[discoprincess]

 

The Hot Button Game: It was funny when Clive said something to Tanisha like 'how can you look like that and not cook, and 'but you sure know who to eat' (not a direct quote)   Hahahahahaha!!!!!

 

I just read that they were married for 2 yrs and separated for 2 years

I thought I heard Tanisha say on the show she and Clive have been married for two years but separated for 1.5 years. Either way, they've been separated for longer than they've been married; that is obviously not a good sign.

 

I also like Roger. I didn't see him on The Jersey Shore, so I don't know how he came off there, but he seems like one of the realest members of the show here. How can hearing of your friend's suicide not impact you like that?

[discoprincess]

I finally caught this episode during a July 4th co-dependency marathon. I was laughing so hard when Roger started talking while on the slab at the morgue (when Jenni didn't react enough during the exercise), I didn't actually hear what he was saying to her. It was hilarious that he broke character (of being dead) at that moment to call Jenni out (presumably) instead of doing it after he was brought back out, "alive".

[discoprincess]

 

 

Gretchen was shitty for forcing Kevin to stay in the limo while she went to the event. That was really rude and uncalled for. I'm mad she wasn't called on that.

I was yelling at the TV while I was watching the marathon that I was hoping for Jim and Elizabeth to read Gretchen the riot act for that stunt. "Could you go around the block?" I have to give Kevin props for rolling with the punches and being calm about it afterwards, because I doubt Traci would have been. (Tanisha definitely would not have been okay with that!)  I think that Traci would have thrown Gretchen under the bus in front of Jim and Elizabeth and tried to get them to make more of an issue of it. 

 

Gretchen couldn't have explained to TMZ (and whatever paps) that Slade couldn't make it, and she was simply taking a friend (Kevin) as a plus one (and it wasn't a real date)? No, she doesn't want to be papped with a guy with dreads. What Gretchen did really pissed me off. I don't know whether she can redeem herself at this point.

 

Too bad Jenni's (apparently) committed to Roger. I could see her with Slade.If nothing else, they both like the publicity.

[trimthatfat]

Gretchen couldn't have explained to TMZ (and whatever paps) that Slade couldn't make it, and she was simply taking a friend (Kevin) as a plus one (and it wasn't a real date)? No, she doesn't want to be papped with a guy with dreads. What Gretchen did really pissed me off. I don't know whether she can redeem herself at this point.

 

ITA. I know she would have done that to Clive, too. Something tells me that she wouldn't have done that to Ryan or Roger. TMZ isn't stupid - they usually do their research when someone shows up to a red carpet with a new date, and they would have easily put two and two together that Kevin is Traci's husband since he's been on the Braxton family reality show. I sincerely doubt anyone would have thought Gretchen and Kevin were an item.

[Tara Ariano]

The one where they use puppets to talk about sex. Kevin would like more foreplay.

[ExplainItAgain]

This is sort-of unrelated, but I love Roger's "New York" masthead t-shirt. Anybody know where to get it??

[Primetimer]

It's time for the couples to tell each other what they want in bed with the assistance of poor felt hand puppets that did not ask for this and would rather be in a kindergarten somewhere.

Read the story

[Bubbacat]

I didn't really understand the therapeutic value of the electroshock. Well, I should say that I didn't understand it for the Boot Campers. For me? Oh, it was VERY therapeutic! "Do it again! Do it again! Shock Gretchen MORE!" Just please, for the love of God, no more sex puppets. There are some things you just can't unsee. Or unhear.

Yeah, this show is my crack.

[morediva]

Didnt Roger know Jenni mase her money on reality tv when he met her? That has a limited shelf life to make money and she doesn't appear to have other skills. I dont get why he is so mad that she is trying to make her money while she can.

Didnt Roger know Jenni mase her money on reality tv when he met her? That has a limited shelf life to make money and she doesn't appear to have other skills. I dont get why he is so mad that she is trying to make her money while she can.

[Kerrey92]

Something very off about the Roger/DrCarroll sit down. The part where Dr Carroll was complimenting him and telling him that he came to work was all shot from the back of Dr Carroll's head and the audio sounded different. I think Dr Carroll was telling him something very different about the contract they signed or the fact that the producers used the pregnancy just like Jenni and Roger wanted them to. It was weird!!

[OnceSane]

 

Didnt Roger know Jenni mase her money on reality tv when he met her?

 

They had a fake "run-in" on camera in season 4(?) of Jersey Shore, but I think they knew each other before that.  But by the time they started dating, he was well aware of the reality show machine.

[bilgistic]

My issue with Roger's "issues" with Jenni's need to have everything televised and why I think it's made up for this show, aside from the fact that anytime Jenni discusses it, she can't even pretend to give a fuck is this: by my count, Roger has now been on at least THREE shows with Jenni. Couldn't he have said "no" at any point? He is a grown man. Does HE have a job other than "reality show famewhore"?

Similarly, does anyone remember when Slade had a very lucrative job and was very busy and successful, way back in the Real Housewives days with Jo, when he actually wanted his kids around and wanted a loving partner to help take care of them? What the hell happened? (I quit watching RH.)

Edited July 14, 2014 by bilgistic

[OnceSane]

 

Does HE have a job other than "reality show famewhore"?

 

Roger does have a job, or at least he did during Jersey Shore & I think during the seasons of Snooki & JWoww.  I can't remember what he does, maybe construction?  Or possibly a personal trainer.  I'm not sure.

[Lola16]

Slade isn't in love with Gretchen.  Never has been.  He likes her.  Cares about her.  Enjoys the sex and free ride.  But that's it.  Up until a year ago, he was still active on dating sites.  (Links were posted on TWOP)  He likes tall dark haired athletic women.  He also likes to be in charge.  That's not what he's got with Gretchen.  He's hoping she'll dump him so he can move on.

 

Hard to say who is more fake on this show - Gretchen or Jenni.

[Lola16]

 

They had a fake "run-in" on camera in season 4(?) of Jersey Shore, but I think they knew each other before that.  But by the time they started dating, he was well aware of the reality show machine.

If it's the same guy, Jenni was seeing him behind her boyfriend's back before she was cast for Jersey Shore.  I believe he was married.  So he should be used to all the phoniness.

 

Slade was a mortgage broker.  When the bottom fell out of the real estate market in Cali, so did Slade's career.  He then saw reality TV as a way to make money.

 

The puppets were disturbing.  I'm not a prude but I wouldn't have done that.  Reminds me of talking to a counselor about sexual abuse.  no thanks.

[Lola16]

I thought I heard Tanisha say on the show she and Clive have been married for two years but separated for 1.5 years. Either way, they've been separated for longer than they've been married; that is obviously not a good sign.

 

 

I thought Tanisha said they've known each other for 8 years, married for the last 2 of which they were separated 1.5.  Meaning they only spent 6 months together married.  It's easy to feel sorry for him until he starts using everything as an excuse.

[Lola16]

I don't believe I am saying this but I actually liked Slade better than Gretchen this  episode and I  haven't liked Slade ever.  She definitely sunk to a new low between making Kevin her valet and then ditching him.  And the idiot counselors make out like Gretchen handled everything just perfectly. 

 

Overall, I think everybody else handled "date night"  well and most of them had fun with it.  I especially enjoyed the interaction between Tanesha and Ryan.

Gretchen treats Slade like a lackey when they are out.  No way should she have been allowed to treat anyone else like that.  And telling him to go around the block?  She knew press was going to be there.  She had no intention of being filmed with him.  I think only Ryan would have made the cut.

 

I don't know Gretchen or Slade, but he is much more likable. She seems to want to be the know it all (white Oprah!) big star.

If I have to pick who ratted out Jenni's pregnancy to tabloids I am also going with Gretchen.

Tanisha was actually likable with Ryan. I think she puts on a big old pita act to stay "famous". I also don't think she wants to be married ... I see zero affection from her to her husband.

I'm confused by Ryan's need for constant physical attention from Trista. From what I see they are always touching, and that's rare when you're married 10 years. I would get tired of my husband doing that all the time. Even on the sofa just hanging out he's always got a hand on her legs.

Trista seems cold fishy.  I think he wants her to touch him more.

 

Jenni looked pregnant to me and I'm gonna guess she ratted herself out.

 

Wow, Gretchen, superficial much?

 

I might be way out in left field here but after having watched this duo for several years on RHOC, I was appalled at her treatment of her date.  Seriously, pretty much just ditching him that way?  If I were that dude, I have told that driver to turn around and take me right back to the house.  Fuck that haughty bitch.

 

I guess he wasn't up to her top-flight expectations.  I have a really, really hard time believing she would have treated, for example, Ryan or any other perceived "hot" guy in this manner.  She'd have been dragging them through the entire event, doing her Hee Haw laugh, flashing her horse teeth, and posing for every photographer whose eye she could catch.

 

Ugh, my disgust for her has now surpassed my disgust for Slade, and I didn't think anyone affiliated with the Housewives franchise could do that.  

Between the white Oprah comment, calling herself Barbie, and all the posturing, Gretchen out stunk Slade.  And that's hard to do.

[Lola16]

According to a couple interviews she's done she actually found out she was pregnant the same week they left to go film the show.  And they were trying to hide it while on the show since no one in their lives new yet and it was early, but I think they said the other couples did catch on, although I don't know if it will actually be addressed in the show.  They did make sure in the first episode to show her turning down the glass of champagne and Tanisha commenting on JWoWW from the Jersey Shore not drinking.  I guess they were saying she had a "medical condition" and that was why she couldn't drink or go in the hot tub etc.  She also said she was dealing with a lot of morning sickness and was afraid she might get sick during one of the confrontations, which puts what she said in the 3rd episode into perspective and why she's so tired etc.  And wow that was way to long about Jwow's pregnancy haha

Jenni should have used the antibiotics excuse.  That's what all my coworkers have done. 

[bilgistic]

Slade was a mortgage broker. When the bottom fell out of the real estate market in Cali, so did Slade's career. He then saw reality TV as a way to make money.

The puppets were disturbing. I'm not a prude but I wouldn't have done that. Reminds me of talking to a counselor about sexual abuse. no thanks.

Thanks; I thought it was something real estate-related. I work in commercial real estate in a support role (not as a broker) and things are now turning around for me, but I had a very lean 4-5 years. Mind you, I managed to stay out of reality TV. Fancy that!

I agree that the puppet schtick was ridiculous. It was juvenile at best. The puppets did remind me of the VD puppets from Chappelle's Show, though. (Look it up on YouTube; you won't be sorry.)

Edited July 14, 2014 by bilgistic

[bilgistic]

Jenni had her baby on Sunday: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=pmrDU9qHOIfi8gH0x4E4&url=http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/jwoww-fiance-roger-mathews-baby-girl-article-1.1865145&cd=9&ved=0CD0QqQIwCA&usg=AFQjCNFvXV-ZboKc7iETzgafuwos7khT8A

[OnceSane]

I'd say Gretchen since her relationship has been fake from the jump.

[sunrisepink]

Something very off about the Roger/DrCarroll sit down. The part where Dr Carroll was complimenting him and telling him that he came to work was all shot from the back of Dr Carroll's head and the audio sounded different.

 

 

I've noticed that this almost always happens when the therapists are giving the couples feedback. Usually I think it's because there isn't an easy way to edit the sessions down so they just record a summary later and play it over the footage. But during the Roger/Dr. Carroll sit-down I do think there was a lot of talk about production and behind-the-scenes stuff they had to eliminate.

 

I hate that most episodes end with a showdown between Jenni and Roger. Jenni seems checked out.

[discoprincess]

I am bothered at Gretchen referring to herself as "white Oprah". First of all, Dina Lohan(!) already claimed that title for herself years ago. Secondly...Oprah isn't the only one who will ask a bunch of different questions; that's what any good interviewer or journalist is supposed to do. Gretchen isn't any of these things. Third...just no on GP.

[Tara Ariano]

Last episode before the finale!

[Primetimer]

Or, she's full of crap. Sarah, Tara, and Stephanie Green discuss the latest heart-wrenching Marriage Boot Camp.

Read the story

[sarah82]

Did anyone believe for even a second that Tanisha was actually having a heart attack? It was disturbing to watch her hit Clive, and no one did anything. If the genders were reversed, people would be saying he was an abuser and she needs to leave.

 

Just when I thought Slade could not sink any lower . . Maybe instead of being mad at God, you should get a job and pay child support?

[MsTree]

Tanisha is a piece of work. I don't understand why Clive puts up with her bullshit, unless he's terribly insecure.

Clive, you can do better than someone who abuses you both mentally & physically. Leave her ass and let her find another punching bag.

[KYBlonde]

Tanisha just could not handle Clive reclaiming his balls!  You go Clive!!! *fist pump*

 

During Slade's "breakdown"?  I rewound and rewound and did not see even one tear. I feel VERY sorry for his son, but not for him.

[Persnickety1]

Tanisha just could not handle Clive reclaiming his balls!  You go Clive!!! *fist pump*

 

During Slade's "breakdown"?  I rewound and rewound and did not see even one tear. I feel VERY sorry for his son, but not for him.

 

The entire time he was giving that Emmy-worthy performance (snort) all I could think of was that poor dying child juxtaposed with mental images of Slade and Gretchen appearing lighthearted and carefree at every event where a single camera might be present, fame-whoring themselves at every opportunity.

 

Maybe I'm biased, but Hee Haw Gretchen didn't look particularly invested in his performance, either, sitting back on the couch and most of the time not even looking at him.

 

I think these two will always disgust me.  The only variable for me is which one I detest more at any given moment.

 

BTW, I saw previews last night that JWow is now going to be on that David Tutera wedding dress show.  Not that I watch it but I do remember Taylor Armstrong from RHOBH was on it recently as well.

 

These reality show people will clearly do anything to keep themselves "relevant."

Edited July 19, 2014 by Persnickety1

[Persnickety1]

So why or when precisely did Roger and JWow leave?  I noticed they were in this episode but glaringly absent from last night's episode.

 

Did she have to leave to start filming her appearance on that David Tutera wedding show or...?

 

Admittedly I fell asleep the last 5 minutes but it looked like all was well with them during the "shock-stacle course" exercise.  

[VartanFan]

So Tanisha selected her career even if it means no Clive; Clive selected his career even if it means no Tanisha...and Tanish freaks out (even though she said she'd do that same thing he did)?  She is really messed up and I find it so hard to believe that anyone would want to hire her for anything.  She's so distasteful.  

[Tara Ariano]

Jenni had some "event" on the east coast that she'd committed to do before she was invited (or whatever) on Marriage Boot Camp, so they left temporarily to do that. They returned at the end of Episode 7, just in time for Tanisha's "heart attack."

[OnceSane]

 

Admittedly I fell asleep the last 5 minutes but it looked like all was well with them during the "shock-stacle course" exercise.

 

They did decently until Roger was looking for the bullhorn(?) in the hay.  When he couldn't find it, he became frustrated & their communication broke down.

[athousandclowns]

You know what? Tanisha is sucking up perfectly good air, what is her purpose on this planet? I am happy to say that I have never met or been around someone so disgusting and it hurts my heart to see how she treats her husband. I hope he really grows a set and leaves her.  I do not know who she is or what her appeal has been to be on television but hope never to see her again.

[mythoughtis]

BTW, I saw previews last night that JWow is now going to be on that David Tutera wedding dress show.

 

 

Which pretty much tells you everything you need to know about what JWow and Roger decide at the end of Marriage Boot Camp.   They've been running these previews for a few weeks now.

 

I do think the door exercise was meaningful.. It did tell them what their partner really wants out of life. Still trying to figure out what Trista and Ryan are doing on this show.   It's obvious that their marriage is good.  Kevin and Tracy are too busy thinking of themselves to ever consider each other.  Gretchen and Slade are never going to be happy together because 1. she wants kids, 2 she never even mentions his son, 3, she is overly dismissive about his financial prospects. 4 - he's not a real human being.   Tanisha and Clive... he needs a restraining order,  Why didn't security come break that up?  She doesn't like his passivity, and when he speaks up , she doesn't like that either.  She says he is not working, he chooses his career just like she does, she doesn't like that.  She's rude, mean, disrespectfull.  I would have liked to see the rest of the conversation between her and Slade, regarding whether or not she should stay with Clive, Slade said No, but I would have liked to see his explanation...as to whether or not he thought Clive was not good enough for her, or the other way around. 

Edited July 20, 2014 by mythoughtis

[OnceSane]

Tanisha is full of shit.  Both with this "heart attack" & in how she deals with Clive.  I'm not surprised that the producers didn't step in when she hit Clive, because they didn't step in any of the other times she has been violent with him.

[Stella MD]

I sort of see the value of the door exercise for some of the couples, but I'm still scratching my head at the choices they presented to Trista and Ryan. Everyone else got a clear "me" choice and a clear "relationship" choice, but the choices for the two of them were weird variations on the same thing that made no sense. No wonder they were confused and wound up in the wrong rooms. Why wouldn't Trista want the "new and improved" Ryan - that's the whole point of why they're on the show, right? How is that selfish? And I actually think she was accurate when she told Ryan afterwards that they made the same choice - they both chose the "new" Ryan. Stupid.

 

Meanwhile, Jim posing as God and saying "I forgive you" made me laugh out loud. Full of ourselves much?

[alexa]

Yes, I didn't understand Trista and Ryan's doors either.  They were strange options.  I am sure they went back to their room and mainly rolled their eyes at the exercise.  This show is really bad.  I have never watched and am only watching now for Trista and Ryan but they are on so little that I don't typically make it through a full episode.  I will never watch again regardless of who is on the show.

[MissScarlett]

Wow... where to begin?

 

Ironically, this episode had me feeling like I understand Slade and his motivations a little more.  But... it also raises a ton of other questions.  How often does he see his son?  Does he have an active role in his son's life?  Does Gretchen's money go toward some of the son's medical bills? 

 

The fact that Slade is angry at God and aching for his son would definitely answer any questions about why he may not want to have another child right now. 

 

Gretchen choosing motherhood was not surprising.  Slade choosing himself was surprising.

 

Clive and Tanisha need to get a divorce -- for Clive's sake.  He suffers physical and emotional abused from his wife everyday (as it seems on this show).  This is a big deal!!  If the tables were turned and Tanisha was the one being abused, we would have producers and production people stepping in to take action.  I don't care who is the one in the relationship being abusive.  Domestic violence is NOT okay under any circumstances!!!

 

When she got a call from her agent regarding some career boosting parts she landed, she didn't even take a moment to tell Clive.  She totally dismissed him and  instead, ran into the kitchen to tell everyone else.  My heart broke for him.  This episode pretty much told me all I need to know about her and about him.  It's apparent to me that nothing he could ever do or say would be enough.  She would find ways to continue to beat him down.  Because that is what abusive people do.  Run for the hills Clive!!  Put yourself through culinary school and DO NOT LOOK BACK!!  I'm so over her and really hope that her 15 minutes of fame are up.

 

For anyone who is interested, one of the parts she landed is a role on Season 3 of Orange is the New Black.  http://www.vibe.com/article/bad-girls-club-star-tanisha-thomas-joins-season-3-orange-new-black

 

I think Traci and Kevin will be married forever.  You can clearly tell that these two have been married for 20 years.  I know that they had some trouble in their marriage but it seems like maybe all of that stuff is water under the bridge now.  They both seem committed and very much in love.

 

Ryan and Trista.  Why are they here again?  I agree that their doors were confusing.  Plus, they make it seem like Ryan is the one with the issues in the marriage -- but it seems like it is a little of both.  I mean, is Trista 100% the perfect wife?  More than likely not.  So why aren't her issues being addressed?  In any case, I see all sunshine and rainbows at the end for these two.  They are committed to one another and the family and life they have built together.  They also have the best communication practices out of all of the couples and you can clearly tell that they are very in love.

[Elizabeth9]

Wow Tanisha landed a role on a show about women in prison. That explains it!

She walked right past Clive when the phone call came...why are they even pretending to be together?

It's so wrong that she can beat him on camera and there is no mention of DV or resources, etc. it's ridiculous. Women can be the perpretrators.

It was fun watching her get shocked on the previous episode though...I bet Clive thought so too...

[kira28]

Ironically, this episode had me feeling like I understand Slade and his motivations a little more.  But... it also raises a ton of other questions.  How often does he see his son?  Does he have an active role in his son's life?  Does Gretchen's money go toward some of the son's medical bills?

 

The fact that Slade is angry at God and aching for his son would definitely answer any questions about why he may not want to have another child right now.

  I didn't think I could hate Gretchen any more than I already do but her whole forgiveness shick about how she needs to forgive herself.?? That woman can not get any more ME ME ME.  As for Slade if you ever watched the other show he was on RHOC- he rarely EVER sees his son. I think he might have gone to see him when he had the latest surgery. Basically IMO his son doesn't exist unless he can use his plight for sympathy. No Gretchen doesn't give a shit about his son either. She doesn't help with any medical bills. He doesn't want another child because he already has 2 and doesn't support the ones he already has. He had  a vasectomy so having another child is  out of the question unless he wants to spend a lot of money to reverse the procedure. And fi he doesn't have money to support his terminally ill child then he shouldn't be spending money to have another.

 

Tanisha and Clive- sad that he stays with her. Trista and Ryan are too cute together they so don't need to be there.

[bilgistic]

Apparently, whoever uploads the shows for the AT&T U-Verse Android app finally got back from vacation today and I could watch this show from FRIDAY.

I said in another thread that Creepy Evangelist Jim reminded me of church people I knew in my youth. Now he's playing God. I wish he'd smite half of the house.

[EmeraldGirl]

Apparently Tanisha is also a liar...

 

Tanisha Thomas -- star of "Bad Girls Club" -- is herself a very bad girl, because she's lying about being the newest cast member of "Orange is the New Black."

A Netflix spokesperson tells TMZ ... Tanisha has NOT been cast for OITNB, Season 3. 

Tanisha Instagrammed a photo of the Season 3 cast, saying, "And guess who just got invited?!!! #blessed #oitnbseason3 look out for your girl."

Tanisha then Instagrammed a photo of herself superimposed in an OITNB promo.

Here's the thing ... she might not be a bad choice.

 

Newsflash to the editors - don't tease that someone is having a heart attack and then feature them prominently (and healthy looking) in the previews for the next week!

 

I think Trista and Ryan just decide to accept gigs here and there for some extra money. They probably thought they could come up with some things here to work on, but I guess they didn't know what a mess everyone ELSE would be in comparison. The silly little issues they come up with don't get them camera time. But they're still pretty high road, and cashing a pay check. Neither one has trashed the other openly, and haven't the other couples done that to each other in pretty lousy ways?

 

Also pretty lost because of shouty, dramatic Tanisha was the Braxton gal. Is she an alcoholic and that wasn't a good enough storyline because the others had more drama? I don't know the family's show, but I don't think her morning vodka was a joke.

[bilgistic]

People who use "#blessed" really, really annoy the piss out of me. I guess I'm not #enlightened, but it seems to me that #blessed is used as a "humblebrag" more than anything else.

 

I have a sister that uses it kind of a lot, and she's really dramatic and tiresome.

[Tara Ariano]

The grand finale!

[Primetimer]

An amateur drinker goes on Hall Pass and gets real drunk, and then everyone goes to the ring ceremony, with predictable results.

Read the story

[Lola16]

Every couple was on here for a pay day.  If any of them got something else out of the process, it was coincidental.

 

Both Jenni and Tanisha are featured in previews for David Tutera's new show which runs during this one.  Shocking.  Not.