S04.E11: To Love And To Cherish

[princelina]

Nick is just so odd - he seems literally incapable of just saying something nice to Sonya.  I see opportunities all over the place for even a shy, awkward person to slip in a compliment or say something that might make her feel good, and he just sits there like a stubborn lump.  

[Stillhoping]

google  PB&J Project (ft Lauderdale). They pass out sandwiches

charity got attention when our mayor cracked down on soup kitchens,

[Snarklepuss]

6 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Well, to be fair, these are both assumptions.

When I said that Tom gave Lilly the flowers out of guilt, I was basing it on what he said about giving them in his talking head.  He said he felt like an "a-hole" for not having a gift to give Lilly in return for their month anniversary.   That said, I felt he was sincere about really appreciating the gift, but I could tell he also felt pressured by it to have to live up to a certain standard, especially for appearance's sake.  Tom is talking a good line of shit for the cameras, but it has a certain feel to me of being "on his best behavior".  All he has proven to me so far is that he knows how to look good, but I'm still not 100% buying it at this point, especially since Lilly said something in her talking head about them having good and bad times so far but that the good times definitely outweighed the bad. What bad times?  The non-issues made into issues by the show?  Or maybe there have been things we haven't been shown, or the things we have been shown were made to look like less than they really were.  Or maybe they were more in Lilly's mind than she has let on.  The editing this year of all of the couples seems especially deceptive to me.  I know I am not alone as several people here have made similar comments all throughout the season.  So at this point I really don't know what to believe.

[Snarklepuss]

3 hours ago, MsPH said:

Tom is starting to annoy me too. I have some experience with stingy guys and they all seem to share certain traits that I find unappealing. It's not really about the money, it's how they need to justify their stinginess to themselves by placing themselves above others who they deem materialistic. If you're willing to go through so much effort and mental trickery just to avoid spending any money then it says something about your priorities. I'm careful with money too and can't understand people who live beyond their means, but IIRC Tom said he makes a decent amount of money despite his "minimalism". He is not broke or anything. The fact that he didn't even think of getting anything for Lilly, not even a single red rose, could just be down to thoughtlessness, but then his solution was to get her a few flowers that looked like they'd been plucked out of someone's garden. It's the delivery that bothered me the most, telling her to close her eyes like he was about to present her with something special. I was actually impressed by how undisappointed she was after all the build-up. Tom is lucky to have her.

ITA.  I also think Tom looked more one-upped by Lilly because she made him look bad for forgetting the month-iversary than he appreciated her gift.  And this after him making like he was being so forgiving about her not having her vows done for their one month ceremony or whatever they had planned.  That said, I'm not 100% buying Lilly's sainted attitude either.  She may act like she's not disappointed at all, but some of that may be to save face and not reveal her true feelings on camera or to him.  She is trying to keep things positive but I think deep down she has her reservations about Tom's true level of commitment.

[moonbunnychan]

I both love, and yet am also extremely annoyed, at how they keep talking about Derek and Heather like it was some long term relationship tragically coming to an end rather then two people who met and then spent a week together in Puerto Rico.  That was it.  "Remember the good times!" is literally things that happened over 7 days.  You can just feel how done Heather is with this and doesn't want to be there, but is probably contractually obligated to be there.  I don't blame her, he seems like an ass despite editing to make him seem otherwise, but the producers are probably super mad that out of all their supposed thousands of applicants they managed to pick one that wanted to quit one week in.

With Tom and Lily it seemed like it was the middle of the day when he was dragging her out to do...whatever...so I could totally understand why she couldn't just up and abandon her work on a whim.  She also mentioned having clients who were only there for a brief time that she needed to work with.  Yes, there is a work/life balance, but sometimes the work IS more important, or on a time crunch. Have they ever showed him working?  Starting to feel like his interior yacht design job is less a job and more something he does when he feels like it.  

Edited October 6, 2016 by moonbunnychan

[nexxie]

So, thousands of men were screened for this show and THESE were the best picks for husband material?!

[Kareem]

Thought it was interesting when Tom was talking about his prior relationships. He was talking and I was hearing "Yeah, these crazy broads wanted to talk about the future and commitment and I wasn't ready". Reminded me of his reluctance to speak of the future with Ms. Lily. Little personality quirk there. He seems to want to go through life flying by the seat of his pants "building a foundation" with question marks instead of goals. I can understand Lily's head scratching when he handles most other things so well.  

The Pepper seemed truly annoyed with Sonya's reluctance to move back in with the nasty walking dead. I was sorry to see that Sonya seemed to cave and stay there after the "party".  Girl tried her best but now maybe it's time to run.  

[jamblastx]

13 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

One thing that really leapt out at me this episode is how pieced together the voiceovers are. They'll literally take 20 different clips of someone talking and Frankenstein a sentence out of it. It's impossible to know what any of these folks are actually saying or thinking, the editing is so intrusive.

It's insanely annoying....I feel as if I am hearing an audio ransom note

[jamblastx]

14 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

ITA, but it's not even just that it wasn't so personal, it's that he only gave Lilly the flowers because he felt guilty about not having a gift for her.  Now, if Mr. Snarkle had forgotten an anniversary (which he wouldn't) he would wait a week or so and surprise me with a nice gesture.  Just yesterday he came home with something really thoughtful and useful that he bought at Big Lots for $5.00.  It's a little cell phone easel.  I recently broke my arm so little conveniences like this mean the world to me.  The problem I have with Tom is that he followed a really thoughtful gift with a thoughtless one out of guilt..  It's not about how much it costs.  He could have given the flowers out of appreciation, even that would have been better, IMO.

Exactly!  Not only was it a 'I feel bad because I didn't get you anything gift', but hers to him was extremely personal and it was about him.  His was more like, ' well chicks love flowers, so here'.  Plus he was building it up as if he was about to give her the most amazing thoughtful gift ever.  As far as his cheapness is concerned, no there is nothing wrong about living your life in a 'minimalist' way however, he does judge others for not doing so stating that a nice car doesn't buy you happiness etc.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Kareem said:

Thought it was interesting when Tom was talking about his prior relationships. He was talking and I was hearing "Yeah, these crazy broads wanted to talk about the future and commitment and I wasn't ready". Reminded me of his reluctance to speak of the future with Ms. Lily. Little personality quirk there. He seems to want to go through life flying by the seat of his pants "building a foundation" with question marks instead of goals. I can understand Lily's head scratching when he handles most other things so well.  

Sometimes "when the student is ready the teacher appears."   Timing is very important in relationships too.  Maybe Tom wasn't ready during his prior relationships and now he is.  I get what he was talking about though; too often people obsess about the future to the extent that they can't enjoy the present. 

[Snarklepuss]

55 minutes ago, jamblastx said:

Exactly!  Not only was it a 'I feel bad because I didn't get you anything gift', but hers to him was extremely personal and it was about him.  His was more like, ' well chicks love flowers, so here'.  Plus he was building it up as if he was about to give her the most amazing thoughtful gift ever.  As far as his cheapness is concerned, no there is nothing wrong about living your life in a 'minimalist' way however, he does judge others for not doing so stating that a nice car doesn't buy you happiness etc.

Tom's attitude reminds me of the cliché "starving artist" who deep down wears their poverty as a badge of superiority that they haven't sold out their "true calling" to the banal existence of a real job. Meanwhile in a lot of cases that's just an excuse for not wanting to face reality and/or take responsibility. Oh, but they'll certainly act like the rest of the world are all sell outs and materialistic instead of face their own motives.

[gonecrackers]

5 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

That said, I'm not 100% buying Lilly's sainted attitude either.  She may act like she's not disappointed at all, but some of that may be to save face and not reveal her true feelings on camera or to him.  She is trying to keep things positive but I think deep down she has her reservations about Tom's true level of commitment.

Lilly commented a few times that she tends to do a lot for people & it's not appreciated - something to that affect. I can see already that she really does go out of her way to be thoughtful & put in that little 'extra'; she also said she 'appreciates everything Tom does' for her.

I understand what she's saying, & hope she's going to be okay with 'everything' he does even if it's not a lot, & that it doesn't end up being another situation where she feels she's always giving & not getting back. He does seem to want to really spend time with her, which is important. That will be great for them if the interest lasts.

On the work issue, yes, definitely important, but partners can't be ignored & expect the relationship to thrive. That said, I think if she makes the effort to put the laptop & phone down when she can, & give him some focused attention, then he'll have his needs filled up & she'll be able to get her work done. If not then he's just too needy & that's another problem.

I agree she has concerns about Tom's level of commitment, at least from what they're showing; unless of course it's production drama.

Time will tell with them.

[SaucyMommy]

Tom - to me - seems like a free spirit and lacks interest in material possessions. It could be he doesn't want to grow up - or it could be it is what he believes. I don't get any pretense at all from him - whatsoever. It's his choice. I think he seems the most sincere of all the guys they have had on this dang show - next to maybe Jason and Doug. At some point he will either figure out he needs to work more consistently or he will just keep being a gypsy. Lily will either embrace it or tire of it. It would not work for me. But to each their own.

[Snarklepuss]

5 minutes ago, SaucyMommy said:

Tom - to me - seems like a free spirit and lacks interest in material possessions. It could be he doesn't want to grow up - or it could be it is what he believes. I don't get any pretense at all from him - whatsoever. It's his choice. I think he seems the most sincere of all the guys they have had on this dang show - next to maybe Jason and Doug. At some point he will either figure out he needs to work more consistently or he will just keep being a gypsy. Lily will either embrace it or tire of it. It would not work for me. But to each their own.

I wouldn't find him pretentious if he didn't put other people down in the process, esp. Lilly for her choices.  That's what bothers me about him.  If he was that sincere he wouldn't constantly make references to others' (i.e. her) so-called "materialism".  I don't care how sincere he seems, a lot of that IMO is because the sex is good.  Once that wears off a bit ask me again.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Snarklepuss
broken arm typos

[SaucyMommy]

2 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

I wouldn't find him pretentious if he didn't put other people down in the process, esp. Lilly for her choices.  That's what bothers me about him.  If he was that sincere he wouldn't constantly make references to others' (i.e. her) so-called "materialism".  I don't care how sincere he seems, a lot of that IMO is because the sex is good.  Once that wears off a bit ask me again.

What I saw was a guy that wanted to spend time with his wife, and she was working and not paying attention to him. I have no idea what the agreement was with them ahead of time - but it appeared they were going to spend time together. I can see where he would be upset. In fact I use to do this all the time when I was still working. My husband would constantly have to remind me to put the phone or laptop down because it was not time to work - it was time to spend with him. I realize she is a realtor and needs to work odd hours and doesn't have a traditional 9-5. But they can and do take breaks. I think all he wanted was for her to take a break. I don't think he likes her just for sex either. He seems to genuinely care for her. I think he's made a lot of compromises for her. I actually like him as an individual on the show. :)

[kira28]

9 hours ago, louisamaye said:

 And that bus? Is a jewel. The woodwork and the details in it what little we saw? Were amazing. This is not a loser in a second rate, falling apart trailer on the beach. This is a guy who truly works on yachts--another thing I have a little bit of knowledge about--and put quality workmanship into his bus

  Tom? Is that you? Lol

 

No offense but I read this and laughed hysterically for about two minutes.  I'm no expert but that bus is a dump. I've seen custom busses and rvs that are beautiful.  Tom's looks like he threw odds and ends together. It's a dump. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by kira28

[LazyToaster]

That scene where Lilly was working frantically in the car - that could have been completely staged for drama - or, I guess it is possible that she actually had something to finish up before enjoying the rest of the day.  But, the way she was consulting her phone and her computer at the same time - something seemed off about it.  Not that it is impossible it could happen, but it just seemed forced to me.  They are trying way too hard to show Tom as the - take life as it comes - fun guy and then show Lilly as the serious - have to work hard - never be fun girl.

[Snarklepuss]

2 hours ago, SaucyMommy said:

What I saw was a guy that wanted to spend time with his wife, and she was working and not paying attention to him. I have no idea what the agreement was with them ahead of time - but it appeared they were going to spend time together. I can see where he would be upset. In fact I use to do this all the time when I was still working. My husband would constantly have to remind me to put the phone or laptop down because it was not time to work - it was time to spend with him. I realize she is a realtor and needs to work odd hours and doesn't have a traditional 9-5. But they can and do take breaks. I think all he wanted was for her to take a break. I don't think he likes her just for sex either. He seems to genuinely care for her. I think he's made a lot of compromises for her. I actually like him as an individual on the show. :)

It may be me, but I have a hard time with men who want their women to drop everything including their work because they have to be the center of attention.  9 times out of 10 men like this (in my experience) are the last ones to return the favor when their woman needs them if it were THEIR work intervening.  I have had to just deal with the fact that my husband owns his own business and often can't be with me when he thought he could due to clients changing plans, etc.  That's the way business is.  Yet often (in the distant past, not so much now) when I had a change in plans that conflicted with our time my husband got like a baby about it.  Fortunately he has grown up since then.  Men in our culture traditionally expected their women to revolve around their schedules.  Some of that is changing now but I feel like it persists in some young people even now.  When I see Tom act like this I think "wah, wah, wah, grow up" and I cheer Lilly on for not giving into it.  Good for her.  If he wasn't so obviously under-employed her absence wouldn't bother him so much and he'd act less needy and self centered.  Just sayin'.

[qtpye]

23 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I didn't say Lily was an "immigrant worker," (and what's wrong with being one?).  I mean that she knows that as a Hispanic woman who was NOT born in the USA, she will have to work harder.  It's the same as saying, women or black people have to work twice as hard to be considered just as good. 

As for the child being there, I didn't read too much of it, he probably was excited because of the TV cameras and had no idea what the grown ups were talking about.

I also want to point out that there is often a lot of pressure on the children of immigrants to succeed, because their families sacrificed everything to give them opportunities.

I know Miami has a successful and thriving Latin American Community (I lived there for a couple of years).  However, this might even put more pressure for Lily to be successful.

It might be materialistic, but rightly or wrongly, having a nice house, good clothes, and a nice car are seen as representations of the American dream.  The bohemian free spirited lifestyle can be a hard fit with this point of view.

I do hope Tom is sincere about Lily...she seems like a sweet girl.

[Stillhoping]

Tom said "This no longer an experiment" whuch is a far cry from other "grooms" on this show.

Tres gave gifts [Producer driven?]Last season but kept saying this experiment for example.

I dont get how peeps feel for derek...the account executive of what? I recall in the prelim show that Pepper said both nick and tom have above ave incomes. Never said that about Derek. 

Working on yachts is a very lucrative business in south florida.

All this concern when ryan lived in his moms basement...Doug was living at home...he is a no talent comedian that seems to live off MAFS and Jamie.  

 I still wanna know what account exec Derek does...my guess us telemarketer haha. 

[Jellybeans]

Tom isn't "underemployed" because he and Lilly make the same amount of money annually if I remember correctly.

[nlkm9]

13 minutes ago, Stillhoping said:

Tom said "This no longer an experiment" whuch is a far cry from other "grooms" on this show.

Tres gave gifts [Producer driven?]Last season but kept saying this experiment for example.

I dont get how peeps feel for derek...the account executive of what? I recall in the prelim show that Pepper said both nick and tom have above ave incomes. Never said that about Derek. 

Working on yachts is a very lucrative business in south florida.

All this concern when ryan lived in his moms basement...Doug was living at home...he is a no talent comedian that seems to live off MAFS and Jamie.  

 I still wanna know what account exec Derek does...my guess us telemarketer haha. 

OMG it seemed like every episode Tres was setting up gifts and cakes for Vanessa. It was repetitive and ridiculous --thats why I was so pleased at what Lily did--it was very thoughtful and did not smack of producer manipulation. I swear one nite on last season when I saw Tres setting up a bunch of cakes and a card I just turned the show off. UGH.

[Evil Queen]

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Sometimes "when the student is ready the teacher appears."   Timing is very important in relationships too.  Maybe Tom wasn't ready during his prior relationships and now he is.  I get what he was talking about though; too often people obsess about the future to the extent that they can't enjoy the present. 

I think the thing is with his sort of situation though is that she wants to know what he might want in the future to see if its similar to what she wants. Which if that is the case I get because why would she want to stick it out with him if they are to different on what they may want down the line. Since they are still getting to know each other they have to learn all these things now with having been married in such a way. Otherwise these are talks most of us would have had over time with someone we were dating and not just in a few weeks time of knowing a person. She comes off more as if the type that has things planned out. Unlike him. Which it could be a problem or it might not. Maybe them being a little different in that manner can balance them out in that area. Which things like this and her seeming more career drive, as well as a few other things, have me on the fence still about them. I do think that there was more to that talk they had about Tom's past relationship that we didn't see. Lily seems the type to ask questions about it and take in what was said. The issues in that relationship could have been signs saying this lady wouldn't be someone he wanted as a mother to his kids or to have as a wife and so on. We have no clue what happened there though. I do think these 2 talk about a lot of things that we aren't seeing or the cameras aren't around because Lily mentioned how she knew how much surfing meant to Tom and that it was like a religion to him. Which if I recall he did say but it was in a TH and not directly to Lily. Which it was so long ago I could be wrong on when he said it but obviously she is listening to him and taking this stuff in. Its good he was trying to pull her into that world and teach her how to surf. Now we need to see her do that with him and something she really enjoys doing. 

 

5 minutes ago, Stillhoping said:

Tom said "This no longer an experiment" whuch is a far cry from other "grooms" on this show.

Tres gave gifts [Producer driven?]Last season but kept saying this experiment for example.

I dont get how peeps feel for derek...the account executive of what? I recall in the prelim show that Pepper said both nick and tom have above ave incomes. Never said that about Derek. 

Working on yachts is a very lucrative business in south florida.

All this concern when ryan lived in his moms basement...Doug was living at home...he is a no talent comedian that seems to live off MAFS and Jamie.  

 I still wanna know what account exec Derek does...my guess us telemarketer haha. 

I noticed that with Tom as well. As for the yacht business. I think he just works more as a construction type of job when it comes to that though. It could be he works for a certain company or guy and with that the jobs come as they do. They could be a few days a week or he could be working 5 days a week but the show wants it to look like he is out surfing while she is working. Which if it is a Sat (assuming he was working only during the week) and she has an open house then of course he would be off surfing. Why shouldn't he? He doesn't need to sit around waiting for her to be done with her open house. 

As for Ryan, at least he did have a job too but not sure why he live there myself....And Doug had been living back at home after trying to get back on his feet. Which that happens to many people. I do not find fault in those that it happens too. No matter what I think he is more mature than Jamie ever will be and not self absorbed like her. I don't see him living off her at all. I find it the other way around though with her living off her MAFS time and the marriage. Not sure where the comedian part came from. Don't remember him trying to be that but that he had an office job. 

Back to this season....I wouldn't be surprised if Derek is just a telemarketer of some sort. Which is why we get the title of account executive and nothing else. Everyone else's jobs are pretty straightforward compared to his. LOL I also agree that I do not get why anyone would feel for him. He is a whiny ass man child that doesn't take responsibility for his actions. 

 

4 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

Tom isn't "underemployed" because he and Lilly make the same amount of money annually if I remember correctly.

He said he made one amount one year and a different amount the next. I can't remember if it was more or less on the last one but at this point they weren't to far off. He did say something though that made it sound like it can vary in many ways from year to year. So he could at times end up making less than her or heck more depending on how well she does in real estate. Yet she comes off as wanting to establish herself in that area so I can see her at some point actually making more down the line than he does. Doesn't mean it would be an issue though. It just depends on if he cares about having a wife that makes more than him or not since some do.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Would Married At First Sight's Sonia Be Better Off Divorced Than Married To A Guy With Nick's Terrible Taste In Bracelets?

What are Nick and Sonia fighting for, anyway? And other questions sparked by 'To Love And To Cherish'!

[Kiss my mutt]

I've never seen a straight guy with dance moves like Nick. That is all. 

[Enero]

20 hours ago, MsPH said:

I actually think Nick does like Sonia and the outburst was more about him feeling like he was pushed into a corner by Sonia and the producers than about any honest feelings. Even happy couples say things they don't mean during arguments sometimes, not that it's acceptable, but I don't think it's something you can't get over either. Maybe it's the fact that Sonia's now unavailable and not hanging on to Nick's every word that's making him more interested in her, but he did look like he genuinely missed having her around this episode. He is just so utterly clueless about how to fix things. If I was Sonia and a guy I'd already had sex with told me he's not attracted to me, I would not be going back for more until he showed me in no uncertain way that he really didn't mean it. Nick thinks it's enough that he said it, but he needs to show it. Trying to be her platonic friend is certainly not gonna get them anywhere, since the issue is still there, she doesn't know if he even likes her. He could do wonders by simply telling her she's pretty or giving her any compliment really, trying to initiate some physical contact with a hug or something, but he's just so timid and closed off it's like pulling teeth getting anything out of him. He seriously needs to man up sooner rather than later. So frustrating.

 

I think this is how women sometimes end up in disappointing and hurtful relationships. They believe there's something there when it's not, basing the potential of the relationship off pathetic gestures of love/affection and thinking if they just work with him a little more he'll open up completely and it'll be all good. I hope Sonia is smarter than this.

Nick IMHO isn't showing his "desire" for her because there's no desire there. I understand being clueless about how to fix things, but when Sonia touched him while they were sitting on the couch he was as dead as a doorknob. There was no emotion or spark from him whatsoever. He's showed more emotion towards his dogs than towards Sonia. So he is capable of showing affection and emotion he's just refusing to. I truly believe if he was REALLY attracted to her he'd wouldn't be sitting 10 feet away from her when they're sitting on the same couch, still refusing to tell her she's beautiful "because it's so hard for him to open up," and still going on and on about them being friends but nothing about having a real marriage with HER. He won't even hold her hand. He at least did that on the honeymoon, but now he can't/won't show affection if his life depended on it. IMO he is just not interested, and Sonia would be a fool if she gave him anything more than a casual friendship. 

[Snarklepuss]

2 hours ago, Enero said:

Nick IMHO isn't showing his "desire" for her because there's no desire there. I understand being clueless about how to fix things, but when Sonia touched him while they were sitting on the couch he was as dead as a doorknob. There was no emotion or spark from him whatsoever. He's showed more emotion towards his dogs than towards Sonia. So he is capable of showing affection and emotion he's just refusing to. I truly believe if he was REALLY attracted to her he'd wouldn't be sitting 10 feet away from her when they're sitting on the same couch, still refusing to tell her she's beautiful "because it's so hard for him to open up," and still going on and on about them being friends but nothing about having a real marriage with HER. He won't even hold her hand. He at least did that on the honeymoon, but now he can't/won't show affection if his life depended on it. IMO he is just not interested, and Sonia would be a fool if she gave him anything more than a casual friendship. 

ITA, and at this point I think his body language belies anything that comes out of his mouth.  Maybe he is getting incentives from production for saying he wants Sonia to move in with him and finds her attractive, I don't know.  I'm just not buying it. 

[buttersister]

19 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

And this after him making like he was being so forgiving about her not having her vows done for their one month ceremony or whatever they had planned.  That said, I'm not 100% buying Lilly's sainted attitude either.

I'm confused. They were both planning on celebrating their one-month anniversary, right? I mean he created some vows (we think) but she didn't (and admitted it). She brought a present, but he didn't (oops, better grab some flowers). The producers should work longer than five minutes on the drama they create.

ETA: Sonia, no need to move back in with a guy who has no use for you. Not like they're going to toss you off the show prematurely.

Edited October 7, 2016 by buttersister

[ChristmasJones]

The whole premise that they "build a friendship" after Nick's outburst is just such BS. 

Why on earth would Sonia want to "build a friendship" with a guy who basically screamed that he doesn't like her and doesn't find her attractive??  

I WISH that Sonia had just pulled the plug after that.  That would have been awesome.

If she ends up staying with him, I am going to lose a lot of respect for her.

[Snarklepuss]

8 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

He said he made one amount one year and a different amount the next. I can't remember if it was more or less on the last one but at this point they weren't to far off. He did say something though that made it sound like it can vary in many ways from year to year. So he could at times end up making less than her or heck more depending on how well she does in real estate. Yet she comes off as wanting to establish herself in that area so I can see her at some point actually making more down the line than he does. Doesn't mean it would be an issue though. It just depends on if he cares about having a wife that makes more than him or not since some do.

I remember when Tom talked about his income, when he gave the highest income he ever made in a year I immediately thought that must have been an unusually good year and he was just trying to make it look like he makes more than he really does on average.  That would be like Mr. Snarkle taking his windfall year as an example of what he can make in a year, meanwhile that never happened before or since, not even close.

[Evil Queen]

On 10/5/2016 at 8:05 PM, MsPH said:

I actually think Nick does like Sonia and the outburst was more about him feeling like he was pushed into a corner by Sonia and the producers than about any honest feelings. Even happy couples say things they don't mean during arguments sometimes, not that it's acceptable, but I don't think it's something you can't get over either. Maybe it's the fact that Sonia's now unavailable and not hanging on to Nick's every word that's making him more interested in her, but he did look like he genuinely missed having her around this episode. He is just so utterly clueless about how to fix things. If I was Sonia and a guy I'd already had sex with told me he's not attracted to me, I would not be going back for more until he showed me in no uncertain way that he really didn't mean it. Nick thinks it's enough that he said it, but he needs to show it. Trying to be her platonic friend is certainly not gonna get them anywhere, since the issue is still there, she doesn't know if he even likes her. He could do wonders by simply telling her she's pretty or giving her any compliment really, trying to initiate some physical contact with a hug or something, but he's just so timid and closed off it's like pulling teeth getting anything out of him. He seriously needs to man up sooner rather than later. So frustrating.

 

While I agree that couples do say things they don't mean when arguing there is a difference in that and saying something such as not finding that spouse unattractive and never having found them attractive. That is beyond cruel. I do not see one thing showing he likes her at all. He is cold as can be when she is around and right there. He makes sure to not sit to close to her and can't muster up anything nice to say to her without someone else telling him to do so. The only reason he has kissed her or held her in before is because of her or someone else egging it on. Its never been because of him on his own. He is not into her at all. I think the only reason sex happened was because he was to drunk. I still think he is more into men than he ever would be a woman in that area. I do not buy him being timid at all. He is full of crap and just not into her. Its been obvious from the get go with his tone in how he says everything and the lack of any actions that would show he is into her. IMO there is no coming back from someone saying you are not attractive and more so after having sex. I doubt he would make a good friend either. There is just nothing there at all unless you like hanging around a drunk. Sonia needs to just not give in to the idiot "experts" on a thing because its pointless. 

[gonecrackers]

There's pressure there for both Nick & Sonia to work this out. I don't really think they want to or would be together if left to themselves. It's probably because of Heather leaving the marriage so now they need the other 2 couples to at least make it to decision day.

Of which is going to be laughable. 'Sonia, do you want to stay married, or get a divorce?'  What she should say- 'Are you for real, like, seriously?'

Nick sits there like 'whut?'

It's really nasty how they're pairing women with unstable men, then expecting them to stay & if they don't they are pegged 'not committed to the process' - The men act like they gave it their all & the women are the problem - oh puleeeze, what nonsense.

[bichonblitz]

On 10/5/2016 at 9:07 PM, amcfar said:

Seriously, waaaaaah! Guess what? My husband and I have three kids (youngest is a baby) and sometimes he has to work overtime/long hours/weekends because he works on important things that can affect the entire company and its productivity. I'm appreciative that he has such a great work ethic and is always dependable to provide more than enough for all five of us. I've never had to worry about him providing for us because he is incredibly dependable and always has been. 

THIS! Is how mature people think! I wish I had a husband that I could depend on like that. And kudo's to you for understanding. I'm sure he appreciates all you do at home and for the kids. Can't stand people that whine because the significant other works too much. 

 

On 10/5/2016 at 10:50 PM, fabdarling said:

Did anyone else just loved Nick's friend? They should have matched Sonia with him!!

I loved him, too! Great personality and common sense, neither of which Nick has. 

Derek and Heather will never be friends. Stop already. 

[Stillhoping]

I like Sonia but I am really getting an ambitious vibe from her. I think she sees how Jamie...Monet...Vanessa..David all got shows..attention...money and 3Rd rate cable network reality tv fame....visions of pushing detox teas and teeth whiteners on Instagram? Spin off show?

Heather...like ashley...is over it.  I feel Sonia is going along to get ahead. JMO 

[izabella]

I think Sonja has a lot of debt (which she has specified) and needs to stay on the show to get her check so she can pay off some of that debt.

[nlkm9]

A few weeks ago i was hoping Nick and Sonia could work it out. Now I see that he has not even a shred of attraction for her, and even if he did, he doesnt want to even touch her or even :::gasp::: brush her hand or sit near her........I hope she might realize that after the show there would be a ton of guys who would want to date her...shes a very nice person......:::sigh::::

[Enero]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

I think Sonja has a lot of debt (which she has specified) and needs to stay on the show to get her check so she can pay off some of that debt.

I don't think Sonia has any more debt than the average person or even Nick (eta. student loans, credit card, a car etc.). That said, I don't think anyone comes on this show only to find a spouse. I think they're all hoping to turn their 5 minutes of fame into something bigger.

[holly4755]

For someone who got out of college when most students had no debt because colleges were almost free (student fees, the damn student fees we had to pay, but ample sources for scholarship money, so most people were happy), I find that graduating with any debt a great detriment to growth of a person and the ability to not have to take the best paying job, but one that they could enjoy.  My parents were angry at me for not taking a secretarial job when I got out of college, but instead,  for half the pay, going into computers, something new and confusing. Well it grew into a well paying career, certainly better than if I was a secretary. So I think all these couples are in debt and this show looked like a quick way out of it. if indeed it is 50K for 6 weeks of work, I can see them jumping at the chance to wipe out their debt, but they all had other expectations that did not necessarily mesh. 

[Lion18]

On October 5, 2016 at 1:20 PM, gonecrackers said:

That was great... he seems to have a good sense of humor. She might be a bit more serious but that could make for a good balance. I read somewhere relationships tend to work better when the man is more lighthearted & the woman is more on the serious side. Hopefully it works for them.

I think that whole scene was scripted because they are really not having problems. This was for drama

[call me ishmael]

On October 6, 2016 at 3:17 AM, Kareem said:

The Pepper seemed truly annoyed with Sonya's reluctance to move back in with the nasty walking dead. I was sorry to see that Sonya seemed to cave and stay there after the "party".  Girl tried her best but now maybe it's time to run.  

This is one of the biggest problems with the show now.  The "experts" have failed so many times that they basically try to strongarm the contestants into staying together as long as they can or divert attention from their own track records.  You could see this in the way that they were more sympathetic to Derek rather than Heather (who God forbid didn't seem to understand how significant THIS DRAMATIC SOCIAL EXPERIMENT really is or that "MARRIAGE ISN'T FOR PUNKS" as Pastor Shouty would say).  After all they are married, and even though they have just met these people and only have 6 weeks anyway, how could they possibly decide that it would be a mistake to stay in the LEGALLY BINDING MARRIAGE for longer than they thought made sense.

[gonecrackers]

23 minutes ago, Lion18 said:

I think that whole scene was scripted because they are really not having problems. This was for drama

That scene played on me more like comedy. :)

[Empress1]

7 hours ago, izabella said:

I think Sonja has a lot of debt (which she has specified) and needs to stay on the show to get her check so she can pay off some of that debt.

I don't think Sonia's debt is that bad, but again, the vast majority of the people I know have or had student loans. Education is expensive as shit. But regardless, if she decided to split with Nick, she'd still get paid (if the show pays them well, which I don't think has been confirmed). She'll still have been on the show. Heather and Derek are still on the show; I assume they'll get whatever they're entitled to even though they're broken up. There's nothing that indicates that participants get more if they stay married (although maybe the show will start trying that since the track record is so poor. Nothing like good old fashioned bribery!).

I know as well as anyone about what a pain in the ass paying off student loans is, but it seriously would not occur to me to go on any kind of reality TV show to pay them off. The cost (lack of privacy) would be too great. But then, I say all the time that I want to be wealthy but have no interest in being any kind of famous, even shitty cable tv channel famous.

1 hour ago, call me ishmael said:

This is one of the biggest problems with the show now.  The "experts" have failed so many times that they basically try to strongarm the contestants into staying together as long as they can or divert attention from their own track records.  You could see this in the way that they were more sympathetic to Derek rather than Heather (who God forbid didn't seem to understand how significant THIS DRAMATIC SOCIAL EXPERIMENT really is or that "MARRIAGE ISN'T FOR PUNKS" as Pastor Shouty would say).  After all they are married, and even though they have just met these people and only have 6 weeks anyway, how could they possibly decide that it would be a mistake to stay in the LEGALLY BINDING MARRIAGE for longer than they thought made sense.

Yes! I think in the preview, Dr. Pepper literally orders Sonia to move back in. "Sonia, move back in." WTF? Therapists aren't supposed to give orders. My therapist has never given me anything that even remotely looks like an order; if she did I'd find a new therapist. These "experts" are taking this personally, and it shows. And it's unprofessional.

[nlkm9]

I do wonder how powerful this document is that ensures the particpants cannot get an annulment. If she can prove Derek was smoking pot, I bet she can strong arm the show into allowing her to get one. it is absurd that we have to watch the 2 of them on the show anymore. and word to the person who mentioned the editing it is ridiculous.

[biakbiak]

12 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

I do wonder how powerful this document is that ensures the particpants cannot get an annulment. If she can prove Derek was smoking pot, I bet she can strong arm the show into allowing her to get one. it is absurd that we have to watch the 2 of them on the show anymore. and word to the person who mentioned the editing it is ridiculous.

The bar for an annulment is higher than that. Also, most people who go on a reality show to marry a stranger are probably not that concerned about a divorce vs. an annulment. 

[brilliantbreakfast]

On 10/5/2016 at 1:20 PM, gonecrackers said:

 I read somewhere relationships tend to work better when the man is more lighthearted & the woman is more on the serious side. Hopefully it works for them.

Worked for me for 30 years until mine died.  My husband prided himself on being the world's oldest living adolescent, and I was relentlessly practical.  He used to say that I brought him discipline and he brought me slack.  We only started having problems when he decided he wanted an IT career and then aged out of it.  I think that fun and practicality, with some flexibility on both sides, is a winning formula.

[gonecrackers]

9 minutes ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

Worked for me for 30 years until mine died.  My husband prided himself on being the world's oldest living adolescent, and I was relentlessly practical.  He used to say that I brought him discipline and he brought me slack.  We only started having problems when he decided he wanted an IT career and then aged out of it.  I think that fun and practicality, with some flexibility on both sides, is a winning formula.

I'm so sorry for your loss... it sounds like you had a great marriage. :)

[Snarklepuss]

12 hours ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

Worked for me for 30 years until mine died.  My husband prided himself on being the world's oldest living adolescent, and I was relentlessly practical.  He used to say that I brought him discipline and he brought me slack.  We only started having problems when he decided he wanted an IT career and then aged out of it.  I think that fun and practicality, with some flexibility on both sides, is a winning formula.

So sorry to hear this.  My parents' relationship was like this but my father was utterly dependable when it came to a career.  Plus when my mother went back to work full time and to college after work when I was a teenager, he never complained, in fact just the opposite, he was nothing but proud of her.  I don't think Tom is really that lighthearted.  If he was he'd be more accepting of Lilly's choices, not make snarky materialistic comments and cry like a baby about her absence.  That to me is a guy who wants to be in control of his woman and the center of her attention all the time.

[Drogo]

No spoilers in the episode threads. 

[okerry]

On 10/6/2016 at 7:21 PM, Enero said:

I think this is how women sometimes end up in disappointing and hurtful relationships. They believe there's something there when it's not, basing the potential of the relationship off pathetic gestures of love/affection and thinking if they just work with him a little more he'll open up completely and it'll be all good. I hope Sonia is smarter than this.

Exactly. This is known as "settling for crumbs," and women often do this while trying to convince themselves that a crumb is a whole loaf of gourmet bread . . . when it's really just a crumb and you can bet somebody else is getting that loaf.

Even worse is a man who tries to bully/guilt the woman into believing that the crumb is really a loaf, so she'll hang around and still provide sex/attention/whatever it is he wants.

If a man wants to give you a loaf of bread, you'll know it. You won't be getting crumbs.

[magemaud]

Like many others, I don't understand why it's important for Heather and Derek to "part as friends." It's not like they have children to share custody of, mutual friends and travel in the same "circle", or even have accumulated shared belongings to divide fairly. Despite being legally married (TO STRANGERS!!!) they are no more invested in the relationship than millions of other couples who were initially attracted to each other, DATED briefly then decided it wasn't going to work out. Some part amicably, others can't stand each other, but I can't see any reason why the so-called experts are shoving this "friendship" idea down their throats except that they (experts) don't want to fail again in their pairing.