Divorce - General Discussion

[iMonrey]

Quote

 Or did Robert just have a midlife crisis a few years back & turn into a jerk? 

That's what I'm assuming. Frances said he worked on Wall Street for years, but apparently he quit his job to flip houses? And they've been in the red ever since? It's hard to believe she could have been so ignorant about their financial status if she's been the sole breadwinner and the only one paying the mortgage. She knows he hasn't sold any of the houses he's bought, right?

And what did she think she was doing by vandalizing and trying to flood that house? Her lawyer just told her she's responsible for their debt. She needs to be able to sell that house even if it's at a loss. Is she an idiot?

The part with her lawyer and his mini-stroke was kind of funny but I agree the show, as a whole, just doesn't quite work. I guess I keep hoping it will get better.

[SFoster21]

I have to agree woth those that find the show inconsistent and uneven and the couple mismatched.  It has moments, but doesn't really hang together.

[AManfred]

Who is the actress that played Janice, the woman Robert slept with? Searching online for the past five minutes, but hoping someone here knows.

[cpcathy]

I don't remember her name but she's Jack's wife in the Jack in the Box commercials!

[iMonrey]

Her name is Gillian Vigman, and she's one of those actresses you've seen on about a million different shows.

Edited November 21, 2016 by iMonrey

[LilaFowler]

Sad how oblivious both were in different parts of their marriage:  he to her cheating and unhappiness, and her to their financial situation.  His is more understandable since no one wants to think that their spouse is cheating.  Maybe there was a little voice in the back of his head on occasion?  Nope, he admitted that he was totally in the dark, never suspected a thing.  He's not very perceptive.  As for Frances, I really don't understand how it escaped her attention for years that she was basically the sole provider.  That area is not cheap.  Neither are her clothes, many coats, kids' headphones or all those dinners at the Tap House.  Did she never even glance at a credit card statement?  I mean, really.  This is 2017.  If you leave your financial matters entirely in someone else's hands and remain completely ignorant of the details, you are basically asking to get screwed.  Her job must pay very well to be able to afford this lifestyle on that income alone.

[txhorns79]

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This is 2017. 

Greetings from 2016.  What are things like in the future?

I do agree though that it is just weird that Frances is the sole wage earner, but had no clue that Robert was so deeply in debt. 

[scrb]

I think they do a good job with the short scenes each week which fill in the picture with the minor characters, like Frances' friends.

Like Robert running into Dallas over-mothering her son because of her loneliness.

I liked some of the secondary characters in Catastrophe too, how their stories were told without having to give them a ton of screen time.

As for the main characters, Frances enumerated more problems she had with Robert, mentioning the mustache (again) and her putting up with his farting robot routine.  She had to have been in love right, to put up with that?

Robert is kind of a pathetic figure, going after the old friend and the Starbucks employee.  Then when he gets some, he doesn't enjoy it because the woman is a stranger, whose unfamiliar smell he can't get rid of.  He can't understand how Frances could do it so many times with a stranger.

He is a buffoon but he's not completely an unsympathetic character, as he displays human frailty, as much as another character on the show.

[luna1122]

It's unbelievable that Robert ever worked on Wall Street; he seems to have utterly no business or social savvy or smarts. I don't get it. I also USED to have some sympathy for him, but his pissiness with the Starbucks girl was over the line. I'm so sick of men who think a female being nice (especially within in the context of her job) means she's flirting with him, and then getting outraged when he hits on her and it isn't met with enthusiasm. He was such a creep to her.

Yeah, I can't find any reason or evidence that Frances was or ever would have been in love with him. Not that she's much better, she is not an especially nice person either. Still, her 'friend' Molly Shannon was being an insensitive jerk to her about her gallery space.

I watch a few shows wherein the main characters are not likable: Always Sunny, You're the Worst, Seinfeld....so it's not a requirement for me to like them to enjoy the show, but this one is still teetering on the edge for me. I like it, sometimes, but it still feels so uneven.

Edited November 22, 2016 by luna1122

[cardigirl]

I continue to watch, just to see if the show starts developing some "something" to make it worth my while.  Nope.  The one heartfelt conversation was from Robert about his first time having sex with someone other than Frances, and it wasn't joyful or exciting, but just empty and sad.  And Frances had no understanding for him.  UGH!  Poor guy couldn't understand how she could do that with someone else 22 (or whatever number it is) times, but she was beyond caring at this point.  

I think the writers should have tried to show us something of their happy times together before showing us these two idiots who can't seem to function as adults.  I was appalled at Francis' lack of knowledge about Robert's debt or that she didn't know where to get her financial records from, etc.  Not realistic in any sense.

[SFoster21]

19 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Sad how oblivious both were in different parts of their marriage:  he to her cheating and unhappiness, and her to their financial situation.  His is more understandable since no one wants to think that their spouse is cheating.  Maybe there was a little voice in the back of his head on occasion?  Nope, he admitted that he was totally in the dark, never suspected a thing.  He's not very perceptive.  As for Frances, I really don't understand how it escaped her attention for years that she was basically the sole provider.  That area is not cheap.  Neither are her clothes, many coats, kids' headphones or all those dinners at the Tap House.  Did she never even glance at a credit card statement?  I mean, really.  This is 2017.  If you leave your financial matters entirely in someone else's hands and remain completely ignorant of the details, you are basically asking to get screwed.  Her job must pay very well to be able to afford this lifestyle on that income alone.

How about tax returns?  Surely, she signed some tax returns!

How did he mortgage the family home without her signature?  If his business was in the red, any loans he took out would have to have been guaranteed by her salary, right?

How are they even buying food or gas or paying their attorneys?

Too many questions.

[Tara Ariano]

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Robert's sudden happiness irks Frances while she's looking for a new job.

[iMonrey]

Quote

How did he mortgage the family home without her signature?  If his business was in the red, any loans he took out would have to have been guaranteed by her salary, right?

He did say he's the one who bought that house. It's possible it was in his name only. 

[izabella]

On 11/21/2016 at 1:49 PM, AManfred said:

Who is the actress that played Janice, the woman Robert slept with? Searching online for the past five minutes, but hoping someone here knows.

Mary McCormack - I know her from "In Plain Sight" where she played a US Marshall, but she's done a lot of tv and film.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005203/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t1

ETA - whoops, she plays Kathy, not Janice.  I have no idea who Janice is since I was barely watching this horrible episode.  I am pretty much done with this show.  Just awful and unfunny.

Edited November 22, 2016 by izabella

[candall]

23 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Greetings from 2016.  What are things like in the future?

This gave me a case of the giggles!  (Much appreciated, in these gloomy times.)

 

Hi, Mary McCormack.  I liked her a lot in Plain Sight because she was such a non-standard female character, and now I'm sad because she's not a stick and won't be getting many roles.

 

I guess I'm just a creature of habit who tunes in for HBO's Sunday night hour-long flashy set piece and two 30-minute satellites, but on the whole, I'd much rather be watching GoT, Veep and Silicon Valley.

Divorce could still "happen," though.  Aren't Seinfeld and MASH both famous for rocky first seasons, but they got a chance to gel and become loved?

[pasdetrois]

Quote

How did he mortgage the family home without her signature?  If his business was in the red, any loans he took out would have to have been guaranteed by her salary, right?

The script writing is disingenuous to an extreme. Can a spouse take on debt, for which the other spouse is also responsible, without the other spouse knowing? I thought those days were gone, but Frances' attorney said Robert had plunged them deeply into debt by taking on numerous loans without her knowing.

[txhorns79]

Quote

The script writing is disingenuous to an extreme. Can a spouse take on debt, for which the other spouse is also responsible, without the other spouse knowing? I thought those days were gone, but Frances' attorney said Robert had plunged them deeply into debt by taking on numerous loans without her knowing.

Frances did accuse Robert of committing fraud, so my thought was that it could be a case where he simply gave her documents to sign, when he was getting the loans or second mortgage, without telling her, or otherwise misleading her, about the purpose of the documents.  The show didn't do a great job of making clear what actually had happened. 

It's weird to me though, that if she was the person paying the mortgage, she wouldn't have noticed that the overall payment suddenly increased.             

[Armchair Critic]

Robert is just too cringe-inducing.

[Inquisitionist]

I'm still watching in a train-wreck sort of way, but boy, are the characterizations trying my patience. 

[sasha206]

On 11/21/2016 at 1:40 PM, SFoster21 said:

I have to agree woth those that find the show inconsistent and uneven and the couple mismatched.  It has moments, but doesn't really hang together.

This show could've been so much better if they made Robert's character more of a normal, likeable guy who you could picture with Frances.  I mean, Frances aint nothing to loook at (SJP has aged horribly) but it's hard to imagine what she would've seen in Robert.

[NutMeg]

I'm starting to feel disappointed too, as evidence by the fact that I waited almost a week to watch the episode.

Still, there's usually a few minutes I like. This week, it was the relief Frances expressed like a big exhale after her lawyer told her that playing a game of mirrors with Robert's lawyer had been his intention all along. Followed right after by renewed worries. (She's definitely nicer than me, I would have changed lawyer at the first indication of something not right right there, nice old man as he seems to be and all.)

About the financial situation, as I understand it she didn't know Robert had bought so many properties - and had to borrow heavily in order to buy them. Hearing the lawyer, it was obvious that Robert made all the wrong decisions: buy at the top of the market, increase borrowing just before rates came down, etc. Funnily enough, I know of former Wall Street (or City, rather, which is similar) people, who were very good at their job, with other people's money, but appallingly bad with their own. 

[LilaFowler]

This show got... weird.  Robert gives Julian a gun in a super-creepy way.  I hope Julian went to the police.  What was Robert doing in front of the fridge at the end?

Frances is a Grade-A moron.  Turning down her dream job because she might have to give Robert half? She also lost business and made an ass of herself in the process.

I read a comment somewhere (might have even been here) that this show is essentially what Carrie Bradshaw's life would have been like if she had married Aidan.  So true.

[luna1122]

There is simply no resemblance between Aidan and Robert. None. Zilch. In any way. 

[Calibabydolly]

Robert is suddenly happy because he's taking male hormone shots? Huh? That was odd and this whole show is odd!

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, LilaFowler said:

This show got... weird.  Robert gives Julian a gun in a super-creepy way.  I hope Julian went to the police.  What was Robert doing in front of the fridge at the end?

Frances is a Grade-A moron.  Turning down her dream job because she might have to give Robert half? She also lost business and made an ass of herself in the process.

I read a comment somewhere (might have even been here) that this show is essentially what Carrie Bradshaw's life would have been like if she had married Aidan.  So true.

Robert was giving himself testosterone shots. Which, unless his body doesn't produce enough of it, I'm not sure what it's for? It's not a performance enhancer like steroids, or is it?

I cringed through the whole scene of Frances pitching her harebrained plan to the Sotheby's executives. It didn't make sense whatsoever, because as an executive recruiter, she should know better than anyone what does and doesn't fly in the hiring process. And it will definitely not go unnoticed at her current job that she lost a huge client, and if the details get out, she might lose her current job and never be taken seriously in her field again.

As much as I love references to SATC, the Carrie/Aidan alternate universe theory doesn't ring true for me. Aiden may have been a goody-goody and a square, but he wasn't in any way pathetic or bizarre, which is how I see Robert.

[SFoster21]

6 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Robert was giving himself testosterone shots. Which, unless his body doesn't produce enough of it, I'm not sure what it's for? It's not a performance enhancer like steroids, or is it?

I cringed through the whole scene of Frances pitching her harebrained plan to the Sotheby's executives. It didn't make sense whatsoever, because as an executive recruiter, she should know better than anyone what does and doesn't fly in the hiring process. And it will definitely not go unnoticed at her current job that she lost a huge client, and if the details get out, she might lose her current job and never be taken seriously in her field again.

As much as I love references to SATC, the Carrie/Aidan alternate universe theory doesn't ring true for me. Aiden may have been a goody-goody and a square, but he wasn't in any way pathetic or bizarre, which is how I see Robert.

Aidan was a successful furniture designer with a Mamhattan apt and a summer home!  He bought Carrie's apt and the one next door!  She had to borrow from Charlotte to stay there!

This woman is dumber than Carrie!  Give up a job with Sotheby's?   Stupid, stupid...

You move a snake! into my house without a by your leave?  Dead, sir!

A snake is not a domestic pet!!!!

Cruel!!!  YMMV.

[LilaFowler]

Nowhere in my post did I say that Robert and Aidan were alike, or even that they were similar.  I said that Carrie's life would have probably been like Frances's: getting divorced largely because she was bored and didn't communicate, being totally clueless about all practical things, self-sabotaging anything positive that came her way, etc.  RME.

[SFoster21]

38 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

Nowhere in my post did I say that Robert and Aidan were alike, or even that they were similar.  I said that Carrie's life would have probably been like Frances's: getting divorced largely because she was bored and didn't communicate, being totally clueless about all practical things, self-sabotaging anything positive that came her way, etc.  RME.

I get it.

[scrb]

They move the snake tank from a room to the middle of the living room, by the front door?

Where there's a lot of traffic?  I thought they were setting it up for the tank to fall and break open so the snake slithers around.

 

Yeah Germaine was creeped out by Robert in the lecture hall.  Probably wishes that scene transitioned into a song or music video.

Robert meanwhile may be more manic because of the hormones he's shooting himself with but he still can't let go -- Frances spread for Julien as he tells the church people.  Seems like he wants to conjure up that imagery every chance he gets.

[Ina123]

Adultery is very wrong, but, geeze, Robert. Give it up. His constant focus on Julian is turning me off to the show.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Frances is a Grade-A moron.  Turning down her dream job because she might have to give Robert half? She also lost business and made an ass of herself in the process.

That didn't even make any sense! In the first place, there's no way she'd have to give half her salary to Robert. Even if the judge orders her to pay Robert some kind of support, it's not going to be 50% of her earnings. And it's not going to last forever, either. Only until they sell their properties and Robert has an income. The days of "alimony" are over - it doesn't really exist anymore.

In the second place, she's still going to have to pay Robert some kind of support, so even if she had to pay half of her new salary now she's going to have to pay half of her current salary which leaves her with less. So dumb!

I have no idea what Robert was trying to do giving Julian the gun. Tell him to kill himself? That scene was just bizarre. I don't get the testosterone shots either.

I suppose the scene where Frances is pitching her deferral plan was supposed to be funny, but the show just makes less and less sense as it goes along.

[cpcathy]

Since my husband is currently looking for a better job, the Sotheby's thing really irked me. Take the damn job, Frances! She then burned her bridges with that woman she was talking to, they won't EVER want to give her another chance.  Frances is as clueless as Carrie Bradshaw!

[txhorns79]

The Sotheby's job just frustrated me.  I appreciated that Frances eventually realized she had talked her way out of an excellent opportunity, and probably seriously hurt her business by losing the client, but damn.  She is dumb. 

I can only hope Julian called the cops on Robert.  He was very scary. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by txhorns79

[formerlyfreedom]

Frances takes issue with a lawyer’s insinuations of negligence; Dallas makes a connection at Diane and Nick’s latest party.

 

[luna1122]

I completely did not need to see Molly Shannon and hubby in the tub. I don't care about them. Don't try to shoehorn them in as an actual plotline, plz.

I would have called the cops on Robert had I been Julian too, tho Julian is such a douchebag I don't care.

Frances sabotaging the Sotheby's job made no sense, as noted above. She's still gonna have to pay Robert half, no matter her salary, so why not go for the bigger salary at the job she dreamed of? Just to spite him? Stupid.

[EdnasEdibles]

I agree with everyone about the job. It makes no sense. Start the job, fresh start on life- new beginnings and a chance at happiness. It truly makes no sense at all. Her friend that she was hanging with is a little too sour and that's fine - we all have a sour friend, but maybe don't take life advice from them on your career when you're actually happy for a change. 

[candall]

I've been a steadfast supporter of this show, on this thread, but . . . ye gods.  Frances stammering and twitching and twirling around making awkward remarks to peripheral people was cringe-inducing and RIDICULOUS.  No one would hire that nervous bag of crazy to staff a toll booth.  I could barely stand to watch her squirming around, but six minutes later, I'm supposed to feel the poignancy of Frances' reflective moment when she removes her wedding ring? 

I'm not too entertained by Molly Shannon's throaty growls about dirty birds or Robert's insistence that Frances "spread 'em," either.

You're a mess, show--pull it together or hire new writers.

 

Also, yeah, snakes aren't easy pets.  They aren't living Slinkies--they're delicate and need someone to be invested and know what s/he's doing.  These people already have a high maintenance sheepdog that doesn't seem to be getting much truck.

Pfft.  Thumbs down.

[Rockfish]

I am obviously not a Molly Shannon fan because she irritates me on this show--her bathtub scene with her hubby was especially squicky. Likewise, I'm not a Thomas Haden Church admirer either: when I watched Sideways, I couldn't figure out how he could possibl be a ladies man, but we all have different tastes. However in this show? With the incredibly awkward way he acts and the cringe-worthy stuff he says, there's no way I can believe that he and Frances would ever have been married. I guess like Sarah Jessica Parker or I wouldn't be watching. 

Even though the show is a mess, there's usually a scene each week that's funny. But I don't remember laughing at all during this episode. I was mainly embarrassed for all.

Frances's spazzy behavior with the Sotheby's execs reminded me of a boss I used to have, who would sometimes suddenly get really hyper and start talking rapidly with wild arm and hand gestures. If we were around higher ups, I'd try to subtly change the subject or do something to try to get her to calm down. Good times, lol.

[Primetimer]

Jordan Veilleux's not a crackpot. He just thinks a so-so comedy about divorce is better than another show divorced from reality.

View the full article

[dmc]

I hate hate the Divorce

[dinkysquid]

I'm trying....really, really trying to like this show but I gotta tell ya - it aint easy!!

First off, I don't know what the hell the casting people were thinking of when they called up Church and gave him the good news. I don't see him as Robert and quite frankly, I don't know who I would have cast but trust me...it would NOT have been him! He annoyed me in Wings but he was way worse as the insufferable, man-slut asshole in Sideways. I still don't know how Paul Giammatti didn't stuff him into a grape press!! 

Church is not much of an actor. I always feel like he's just reading his lines rather than acting them. The scene when he was bitching to the people at church about his wife's "spreading", it was just nauseatingly icky because he doesn't have the comedy chops to pull it off. It just came across as inappropriate and gross.

I started watching because as a long-time fan of SATC, I'll watch anything that SJP is in and it was a combination of wanting to see her back on HBO, and loathing Westworld so much. Once my Sunday night regulars; GoT, Veep, Silicon Valley, etc. are back on, I'll watch them instead but I'm sure by that time, Divorce will be long gone. Either it will have been cancelled or be over for the year.

SJP has never looked more unflattering. I don't know if it's from not aging well (hey! It is genetics too!), that long, ratty hair with the dark roots (is that look still in?), the too severe eyeliner or that she always appears BADLY LIT but she sure doesn't conjure up ANY memories of Carrie Bradshaw. Yeah, I get that it's a very unfair comparison especially when we're talking about time passing, but it's just that as Carrie, she always looked amazing. Cut the hair, go back to blonde and ease up on the eye make-up.

Appearances aside, that whole business with her blowing that job offer so spectacularly, had me cringing and then yelling at the TV. Especially now with unemployment being what it is and people losing their homes and going without, this is scene was repugnant. A woman in her position messes up an offer like that?!!! And for what? To prevent Robert from getting any money?!!! She needs a steady income now. She's got to carry that house and all the expenses that entails. Plus, she's got two kids and a snake to support.

Agree that the cops should have been called after Robert's silly stunt with the gun and I agree with a couple of the other posters here about Molly Shannon; never liked her and when I put on the first episode and saw that she was it, it almost turned me off watching any further. The scenes with her and her husband are dead air.

Um...what's with the injections? There sure isn't any charisma or acting ability in them!!!!

Now please correct me if I'm wrong, but is Frances' other friend, the saner one whose name escapes me now, did she play Mona, Roger Sterling's first wife on Mad Men? 

Anyone know if this sad mess has got the green light for a season two?

Edited December 4, 2016 by dinkysquid

[formerlyfreedom]

6 hours ago, dinkysquid said:

Now please correct me if I'm wrong, but is Frances' other friend, the saner one whose name escapes me now, did she play Mona, Roger Sterling's first wife on Mad Men? 

Yes, she did, and is actually married to John Slattery in real life (lucky woman!) - Talia Balsam. She was also the first wife of George Clooney.

/back to topic

I suspect that the unflattering appearance of SJP is intentional. This is a quirky, odd little show, and it doesn't really make me like ANY of these people, but still, I can't really look away from it for some reason.

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Tensions ease between Frances and Robert, but a move by Frances’ new lawyer sends Robert on a vengeful path. (season finale)

[Armchair Critic]

The new lawyer is Janet the mom from Rectify! Other than that this show makes me cringe too much with all the awkwardness.

[DangerousMinds]

On 11/26/2016 at 10:48 AM, sasha206 said:

This show could've been so much better if they made Robert's character more of a normal, likeable guy who you could picture with Frances.  I mean, Frances aint nothing to loook at (SJP has aged horribly) but it's hard to imagine what she would've seen in Robert.

Am I the only one who thinks SJP looks pretty good?

[luna1122]

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Am I the only one who thinks SJP looks pretty good?

No, you aren't. I'm just glad the people who think she looks old and awful don't see me on a daily basis. She looks just fine.

[izabella]

SJP is 51 years old, and she's always had distinctive features that make her just short of "pretty," so what are people expecting?  I think they could do a better job on her make-up, but I'm at least glad there are roles for women her age.  It's usually the invisible age - tv shows young women and grandma/old women, and expects all the women in between to look like they are 30 with the help of fillers, Botox and plastic surgery that makes them look more like clowns than human.  I'm sure SJP has probably had some of those fillers and whatnot, but otherwise, hooray for a woman being allowed to look her age and still work as an actress!

Edited December 5, 2016 by izabella

[EdnasEdibles]

Here's my issue with Frances - it seems like every time she has warm feelings about her husband, she has second thoughts on the divorce. Which somewhat makes sense but then also - you can like someone and still recognize that you should not be married to them. They have real genuine problems in their marriage and even if they don't want to stab each other, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're meant to be. 

[cardigirl]

I think most people have second thoughts about divorce when they are reminded about the better parts of their marriage.  Watching her husband dance with the kids at the party was a sweet moment.  I don't think she was really thinking about stopping the divorce, just was enjoying the connection she has to those three people.  

[dinkysquid]

23 hours ago, saoirse said:

Yes, she did, and is actually married to John Slattery in real life (lucky woman!) - Talia Balsam. She was also the first wife of George Clooney.

/back to topic

John Slattery AND George Clooney?!!!! Now that goes beyond lucky! That explains the chemistry with Slattery. I always loved their scenes together.

SJP and especially Church, irritate the hell out of me but I too keep watching and I don't know why. It was the same way with Vinyl.