S05.E04: Life After Death

[Primetimer]

In the aftermath of Josh's death, Brandon grieves as showily as he can.

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[Primetimer]

Grab your bedside beer and drink them in.

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[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

That extra does look like Luke Kirby!

#SarahIsNotACrackpot.   #AlsoNotWrongAboutRaisins

[jenrising]

Poor Brandon. How irritating of Josh to die near him. 

[SoupThrower]

That Donna pic will haunt me for a couple of days. It really will. 

Did I miss something about Donna working with the campus TV? Cause how? why is she in it/should work together with David? 

Ahh Brandon. It's just student government not a country. There are a lot of things wrong with this episode. Gloria, Dylan and Val's banter, David's funeral outfit, Steve serving alcohol which I have nothing against but kind of illegal, the wall of many bad colors, Kelly, Donna in a bikini, lack of Walter and D'Shawn, and Brandon doing the eulogy? Really? You couldn't find someone else? 

Edited September 12, 2016 by SoupThrower

[SoupThrower]

Yay the David Clare thing starts off. Also don't get the whole Donna catholic girl thing. I thought she was a virgin cause Felice told her or something rather than cause her beliefs. I don't know, kind of confused me. 

[radishcake]

I know I have at least one picture of me with this shag. And I still have extremely short hair and succumb to SMALL barrettes sometimes. I was a total baby barrette-r back in the day though.

 

[Uncle JUICE]

1 hour ago, SoupThrower said:

 

Did I miss something about Donna working with the campus TV? Cause how? why is she in it/should work together with David? 

 

Holy shit I can't wait until the hostage situation. 

[Nanna]

Didn't Brandon have that "man upstairs" conversation with Dylan once? Or someone else did, perhaps when Dead Scott deadscotted himself?

[Nanna]

  1 hour ago, SoupThrower said:

 

Did I miss something about Donna working with the campus TV? Cause how? why is she in it/should work together with David? 

 

Holy shit I can't wait until the hostage situation. 

Oh yes. Except that is in connection with weather girl STUFF which was the worst, but hilariously so.

[gesundheit]

Didn't Brandon have that "man upstairs" conversation with Dylan once? Or someone else did, perhaps when Dead Scott deadscotted himself?

Yes, he had pretty much the exact same convo after DeadScott, when Brandon was talking about how Dylan saved his life and how someone up there must like him, but does that mean someone upstairs didn't like Scott? (etc)

[txhorns79]

Quote

Ahh Brandon. It's just student government not a country.

The whole thing was just ridiculous.  Can you imagine the poor judge who has to actually hear a case involving the appropriate line of succession for something as marginal as student government? 

[ZeroDiscipline]

Kelly's hair is really out of left field. I was in college at the same time as these guys, and while I do remember that this was around the time we were all lopping off our long straight hair and moving past grunge, what Kelly did here makes no sense, and no one else had or desired that haircut. Val and Clare had normal haircuts for this time period. Even Donna's slicked-back thing may have been happening in California, and certainly a lot of women tried out that platinum color around this time. But no no no to Kelly's. It looks like she is trying to grow something out, like she got gum stuck in it and had to cut the gum out and that was what the stylist had to work with, but this was cut that way on purpose. Looking forward to her short hair when she reappears after her summer modeling with Colin in New York (barf).

[TeeVee329]

Valerie looks really pretty in that pic of Dylan doing a terrible job of pretending he doesn't know her.

[jenrising]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

The whole thing was just ridiculous.  Can you imagine the poor judge who has to actually hear a case involving the appropriate line of succession for something as marginal as student government? 

"Your honor, without a clear line of succession, surely CU will descend into chaos. And after the school... the planet!"

So ridiculous. I'm honestly struggling to remember if my university even had a student government. It must have, I guess? 

[Lalochezia]

Weirdly, I actually buy that other people on the student government would be trying to challenge Brandon's legitimacy - it's like that line about how university politics are vicious BECAUSE the stakes are so small. If you'd be interested in running for student government in the first place (because you wanted to, not because you were pressured into it because THE WORLD NEEDS YOU or whatever, shut up forever Brandon), you'd probably be sufficiently invested in it to care that some cock-knocker got to be president by default. It would never go to an ACTUAL court though - MAYBE some kind of in-school committee or arbitration at the most.

Also, I am writing this from beyond the grave, having barfed myself to death after hearing that tongue-bath letter from Josh.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Also, I am writing this from beyond the grave, having barfed myself to death after hearing that tongue-bath letter from Josh.

Seriously.  If I didn't know the context for the letter, I would think Josh was coming out to his mother about his new boyfriend, Brandon.  Heck, I know the context and it still sounds like Josh is writing about someone he is in love with.   

[StatMom]

Tori obviously could not WAIT to get into a bikini this season. Mah new bewbs!

Claire's double major of French Lit and Physics? I get that they're trying to show that she's a smarty pants in All The Things, but that's almost Sorkin-y. The Chancellor doesn't have a Nobel prize in anything, does he?

[vendredi3]

15 minutes ago, StatMom said:

Claire's double major of French Lit and Physics? I get that they're trying to show that she's a smarty pants in All The Things, but that's almost Sorkin-y.

They just needed a scene where Claire and her friends are conjugating French verbs in the cafeteria before being accosted by a tabloid reporter wanting a quote about Brandon taking D'Shawn's tests for him.

[scarynikki12]

I tell myself that Claire's got a double major because she's both the person who majors in something that interests her but isn't particularly useful (French Lit) and the person who majors in something that can lead to many potential careers (Physics) and she didn't see why she had to choose. 

[SoupThrower]

6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

The whole thing was just ridiculous.  Can you imagine the poor judge who has to actually hear a case involving the appropriate line of succession for something as marginal as student government? 

If I was Brandon, I would be like "Fuck it. Josh is dead and he's the reason I'm doing this shit." instead we have to relive this stuff for the ages but hey it works out in the end of the season. But nope apparently the writers thought people cared about student politics or just wanted to make people suffer badly. Why couldn't they let Brandon play sports? Short people can play sports like soccer, horse racing and racing. So I don't know...

I was about to do what Claire did the major that isn't useful and the major that is but my parents at the time were like "Nope." and I did two important majors. 

[bilgistic]

Not to defend Brandon, but we had student legislature something-or-another at my Southern U.S. state school in the mid-1990s. It was for real, but people didn't give a shit about who was running or whatever. It was like, "Oh, I have to vote for something? OK, whatever..." on their way out of the dining hall.

The point of it was for disciplinary action against students who violated the rules of the school. There was an actual court (well, "actual"), and I want to say that students acted as "jurors", "public defenders", etc., but I may be making that last part up.

I definitely remember there being a court. I dated a guy who was involved in it and he took it very seriously. He is a real attorney now and he is my "one that got away". Well, one of them. Sigh.

[kite-wombat]

a) I put a Luke Kirby photo next to the extra. You're not crazy, he does look like Luke Kirby.

b) both Kathleen Robertson and Luke Kirby were born in Hamilton, Ontario. Sure, she's five years older, and Hamilton has a population of, like, half a million people... but why should logic get in the way of anything? Clearly they were besties. 

c) In some photos from Lost and Delirious (2001) he looks thinner, sometimes he looks puffy. Who's to say he wasn't a bit rounder in high school? 

d) Hey, I finally learned the name of the actor who was the cute guy in Take This Waltz!

[Stowaway]

9 hours ago, bilgistic said:

The point of it was for disciplinary action against students who violated the rules of the school. There was an actual court (well, "actual"), and I want to say that students acted as "jurors", "public defenders", etc., but I may be making that last part up.
 

A lot of southern colleges take their student honor codes really seriously (or are really serious about pretending to), and use student government (or some similar, separate "honor code club" type thing) to enforce it. A friend of mine did his PhD at UVA and at one point accused one of his students of cheating. He described the process of going before "honor code club" as being like this: "Student, did you pledge your honor to the honor code?" "Yes." "Well, then you're honorable so you probably didn't cheat. Did you cheat?" "No." "The honor code tells us that students at this school don't cheat or lie, so obviously it didn't happen."

Anywhere that lets their student government do something more meaningful than restock the vending machines is going to have people who take it more seriously. I'm pretty sure Brandon is just restocking the vending machines. In fact, I think that's what the Task Force was about, too.

[gesundheit]

Kelly's hair is really out of left field. I was in college at the same time as these guys, and while I do remember that this was around the time we were all lopping off our long straight hair and moving past grunge, what Kelly did here makes no sense, and no one else had or desired that haircut. Val and Clare had normal haircuts for this time period. Even Donna's slicked-back thing may have been happening in California, and certainly a lot of women tried out that platinum color around this time. But no no no to Kelly's. It looks like she is trying to grow something out, like she got gum stuck in it and had to cut the gum out and that was what the stylist had to work with, but this was cut that way on purpose. Looking forward to her short hair when she reappears after her summer modeling with Colin in New York (barf).

Yes, her super-short cut during her coke addiction is one of my favorites. Go figure!

[AndySmith]

Quote

A lot of southern colleges take their student honor codes really seriously (or are really serious about pretending to), and use student government (or some similar, separate "honor code club" type thing) to enforce it. A friend of mine did his PhD at UVA and at one point accused one of his students of cheating. He described the process of going before "honor code club" as being like this: "Student, did you pledge your honor to the honor code?" "Yes." "Well, then you're honorable so you probably didn't cheat. Did you cheat?" "No." "The honor code tells us that students at this school don't cheat or lie, so obviously it didn't happen."

As someone who graduated from UVa, I have to say the process is neither that simple nor flippant. The Honor Committee (it isn't a club) is student run and does investigate cases related to breaches of honor (usually lying). It has nothing to do with the student government. Sounds like your friend couldn't prove the person did cheat (yes, there is an actual investigation and a trial, where guilt has to be proven, not just accused), and decided to binge on a whole crate of sour grapes.

Edited September 13, 2016 by AndySmith

[Carmen MacCodykins]

The whole challenging the election thing is just so ridiculous and implausible to me because at my school it would never, ever have happened. Because, as our beloved hosts so often remind us, NO ONE CARES! The only people who were even in student government were there because they were coerced/guilted/tricked into doing it (myself included). Of course, I attended a small liberal arts college and not a fictional university.

[sinnerforhire]

I don't even remember having student government in college. I don't remember ever voting for it. But then, I went to a small religious (but liberal politically) school that didn't have a Greek system or football either. There were 2000 students at my school, so maybe 10 of them would have cared about student government.

[Petunia13]

I am beyond tired of Brandon using every opportunity to be a smug dick or put upon asshole, yet still being treated like the master of karate and friendship for everyone. 

Josh's whole existence on this show was just to highlight all the crosses Brandon has to bear due to his awesome and tongue bath him. 

[Silly Angel]

It's not the short, irrational shag I mind, it's the upcupped back feathers—Kelly is working on a full Carol Brady. I may be misremembering, but I believe I was rally mad at the show when it gave Claire a Rachel. Tsk, pandering.

Seeing all these baby backpacks, baby barettes (sigh, yes, count me as another victim), babydoll dresses, baby Ts, it occurs to me how infantalized the '90s feminine wardrobe was. This may have been the lowest-common-denominator chain department store trickle down of kinderwhore, but it's kind of off-putting to see it today. Everything is so...small.

[CurlyATX]

2 minutes ago, Silly Angel said:

Seeing all these baby backpacks, baby barettes (sigh, yes, count me as another victim), babydoll dresses, baby Ts, it occurs to me how infantalized the '90s feminine wardrobe was. This may have been the lowest-common-denominator chain department store trickle down of kinderwhore, but it's kind of off-putting to see it today. Everything is so...small.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but yes, it was very babyish. I had the barrettes and totally wore the slip dresses with the baby t-shirt.  And I had the mary jane version of Dr. Marten's that my friend bought for me in England. I thought I was the coolest.  How did I ever get laid is beyond me.

Griffin's "banter" makes me want to barf... "what are you good at?" and "indoor sports".  No one I knew talked that way at all.  Maybe this is why I stayed away from frats, even though my college was filled with high achieving nerds.

[SoupThrower]

13 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

Griffin's "banter" makes me want to barf... "what are you good at?" and "indoor sports".  No one I knew talked that way at all.  Maybe this is why I stayed away from frats, even though my college was filled with high achieving nerds.

No frat talked like that. I know. 

[Uncle JUICE]

22 hours ago, Silly Angel said:

Seeing all these baby backpacks, baby barettes (sigh, yes, count me as another victim), babydoll dresses, baby Ts, it occurs to me how infantalized the '90s feminine wardrobe was. This may have been the lowest-common-denominator chain department store trickle down of kinderwhore, but it's kind of off-putting to see it today. Everything is so...small.

Looking back at it through this lens, it really was pretty gross. But I do really wish I could find a way to use the word "kinderwhore" in conversation without having to register on some watch list, it's just too good a word, well done :). 

[bilgistic]

It's how people referred to Courtney Love back in the day.

[AndySmith]

Quote

it occurs to me how infantalized the '90s feminine wardrobe was

Wasn't it just for a few years in the mid-90s?

[Uncle JUICE]

6 minutes ago, AndySmith said:

Wasn't it just for a few years in the mid-90s?

It was, it seemed like a backlash against the baggy pants / ill fitting sweater thing that we saw in this very show not more than a season or two ago. ETA blazers. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by Uncle JUICE

[Halo]

5 hours ago, AndySmith said:

Wasn't it just for a few years in the mid-90s?

I graduated high school in 92, and we were already wearing baby-tees, tiny skirts, and thigh-highs by the end of my junior year. The slip dresses over baby tees came a little later, but I actually feel like the gang are a tiny bit behind the fashion curve. Boy clothes didn't change as quickly, nor were they as interesting. 

We definitely wore infantile stuff, though. I actually squeezed my teenaged self into a Brownie uniform jumper and school uniform kilts and sweater vests from the little girls' department. 

[MissEwa]

I think the infantile early/mid-90s stuff just morphed into the slutty/virginal private-school thing that was big in the mid/late 90s (thank you,  The Craft). I feel like tiny tartan kilts were everywhere right into early 2000's. 

[FozzyBear]

On September 14, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Silly Angel said:

It's not the short, irrational shag I mind, it's the upcupped back feathers—Kelly is working on a full Carol Brady. I may be misremembering, but I believe I was rally mad at the show when it gave Claire a Rachel. Tsk, pandering.

Seeing all these baby backpacks, baby barettes (sigh, yes, count me as another victim), babydoll dresses, baby Ts, it occurs to me how infantalized the '90s feminine wardrobe was. This may have been the lowest-common-denominator chain department store trickle down of kinderwhore, but it's kind of off-putting to see it today. Everything is so...small.

Duuuuude, I was an actual teenager at this point and even I knew it was kind of creepy. I remember having these moments of realizing I was supposed to dress like a kindergartener so guys would want to fuck me...and knowing that's not ok. It was a really weird phase of fashion.

[Lisin]

19 hours ago, Halo said:

We definitely wore infantile stuff, though. I actually squeezed my teenaged self into a Brownie uniform jumper and school uniform kilts and sweater vests from the little girls' department. 

I regularly used to wear a "vintage" girl scouts button up uniform (? I wasn't a girl scout... but it was white and had the GS logo all over it) shirt. I was 18. It was definitely a child's size. 

[bilgistic]

10 hours ago, Lisin said:

I regularly used to wear a "vintage" girl scouts button up uniform (? I wasn't a girl scout... but it was white and had the GS logo all over it) shirt. I was 18. It was definitely a child's size. 

All you waifs can stop bragging any time now.

Edited September 17, 2016 by bilgistic

[Lisin]

12 hours ago, bilgistic said:

All you waifs can stop bragging any time now.

Hey no way in HELL I manage that now! ;)

[adam807]

My favorite thing about that computer GIF is the gaff tape over the Apple logo. Try A LITTLE. #propcop

[CurlyATX]

In the early virgin days, I think Donna even talks with her priest.  He isn't all "fire and brimstone" about it at all.  I do think Felice's disapproval s the bigger factor.  But honestly, I think maybe she wasn't turned on by David.  I knew plenty of "good Catholic girls" who were only technically virgins.  Donna seems to go this route with Ray, but sleeping naked with him (or did I make that up?)

[Uncle JUICE]

I sure hope to goodness you are making that up! Number one, I don't recall it (and by that logic it cannot be true :)), but number two, what kind of bullshit is that? You want to be a virgin, be a virgin, but that's not a cool move, sorry. And if Ray said "yeah, great idea," then he's a fucking idiot too (other character flaws notwithstanding and as yet unrevealed). "Technical virgins" as far as I know means they'll go for oral and anal, because technically...but no chance Donna was doing that. 

[Scarlett45]

On September 20, 2016 at 10:26 AM, CurlyATX said:

In the early virgin days, I think Donna even talks with her priest.  He isn't all "fire and brimstone" about it at all.  I do think Felice's disapproval s the bigger factor.  But honestly, I think maybe she wasn't turned on by David.  I knew plenty of "good Catholic girls" who were only technically virgins.  Donna seems to go this route with Ray, but sleeping naked with him (or did I make that up?)

I think Donna's desire to abstain from sex until marriage was part religion part her Mom's influence. As far as being a technical virgin the show never made it explicit (network in the 90s). @CurlyATX Donna got drunk and took off her top in front of Ray saying "tonight's the night", but no they never slept naked in bed together. They shared a hotel room in Portland though. 

I thought Donna's virginity was handled well. There are people that are older virgins for one reason or another and they aren't weird or ugly or antisocial losers. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Scarlett45

[Halo]

On 9/16/2016 at 7:54 PM, bilgistic said:

All you waifs can stop bragging any time now.

[Halo]

On 9/16/2016 at 7:54 PM, bilgistic said:

All you waifs can stop bragging any time now.

I was more commenting on the ridiculousness of putting an almost-adult woman's body (including a not-insubstantial set of boobs) in a little girls' garment than bragging, though I was a lot smaller at 17 than I am at 42. 

[CurlyATX]

Thanks for the clarification @Scarlett45.  I had some vague memory of Ray and Donna helping David's bi-polar homeless mom and later Ray yelling at her for being such a tease. I'm not sure how I felt about Donna's virginity.  I had a few friends in college who were staunch virgins.  Most were technical but a few for religious reasons didn't at all.  A guy friend of mine (who later married my close friend), was a virgin until he got married. 

I think Donna's original reason (in early dating of David) was the best.  It was just that life was so complicated and sex just added to that mix.  As a late bloomer, I don't know how I could have handled sex in high school.  Later on, Donna was written as someone who didn't seem to have sexual urges.  All my virgin friends said it wasn't easy- at times they themselves naturally wanted it, but decided against it.

[CurlyATX]

ugh, the fashion was so bad... and I see it popping back up now.  I walked in the mall and saw for sale the very same Frankenstein mary jane Dr. Marten's I had!  I wasn't a waif, but sadly I did shove myself into a shapeless dress I picked up from the kids' section at Macy's.  Luckily photographic evidence is limited, since I rarely remembered my camera, then had to develop film and then pick up it!  Too many steps = about 6 pictures of me in college.